Excellent post, Winter Patriot. But you'll have to excuse me from commenting further at the moment. I need some time out to scream, wail, and throw up...

Just got through reading Abuse of Trust. It would seem to me that the Department of Justice already already knew of plans for our troops to abuse Iraqi prisoners. Otherwise why would they fight this lawsuit. If our former prisoners of war that were abused in Iraq were to collect on the lawsuit it would stand to reason that the Iraqi's who were abused at Abu Ghraib would be elgible for the same. Sounds like the Department of Justice already knew what was going to happen.

To go a bit farther of my previous post. I don't believe the 100 million settlement costing the provisional government of Iraq is what its all about. What it could potentially cost the US government is probably closer to the answer.

Disgusting. Beyond words.

The Geneva Convention is "quaint" if you recall. In fact, torture and cruel and unusual punishment goes on all the time, right here in our own civillian prisons and jails. Jessica Mitford wrote about it in her classic work, Cruel and Usual Punishment. Psychologist Phillip Zimbardo's study in the 1970's showed how this is part of the dehumanizing process of captivity and any otherwise decent person is subject to engage in it. And Hannah Arendt wrote about the "banality of evil" in her writings on Eichmann in Jerusalem. Torture and the like have always been with us. It wasn't so long ago that it was part of Church doctrine. The Geneva Convention served as a moral and ethical goal post to strive for. They have not just moved the goal post, they have removed it altogether. Realism and pragmatism have a dark side, like anything else.

Here's a man whose eyes have been opened:

http://abcnews.go.com/In...onal/wireStory?id=440046

Torture out, "Cruel, inhuman" treatment ok:

http://www.realcities.co...rwashington/10732654.htm

Oops, sorry. Not awake yet. Posted #6 on wrong thread.

Good eye Winter Patriot.

This shows some of the long term plans of the fascist regime.

First, fascist DOJ lawyer Bybee wrote torture memos. Gonzales supported and nurtured him.

Then fascist Bybee was appointed to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. This is part of a long term plan to make the 9th Circuit fascist.

It has been a court against government wrongs and is a thorn in the flesh of the admin for years. It was the first to hold that the writ of habeas corpus could apply to Gitmo detainees. The right wing of the supremes reversed their decision.

It is well known history in the legal community that the right wing arm of the Supreme Court favors reversing 9th circuit decisions more than any other circuit. The general rule is that if the supremes grant certiorari on a 9th circuit case they will reverse the 9th circuit's decision.

In the context of what is going on, the Acree case seems like a conflict of interest to me.

Remember that the DOJ authored torture memos which White House fascist Gonzales nurtured.

Any suit awarding damages for torture is potential precedent against them. Herein lies the conflict.

Not only that, it paves the way for lawsuits pending or in early phases against the DOJ et. al. concerning GITMO and Abu Ghraib.

The decision points out that the US DOJ was not even involved until judgment had already been entered. They asked to get involved after the fact.

The judge declined to allow them to intervene. The DC Court said that was an abuse of discretion, and the DOJ should have been allowed to intervene.

I wonder if the DOJ knew that an invasion was coming and the assets would become, in effect, part of the US's goodies?

In essence a decision against Iraq was considered by the DOJ to be a decision against them perhaps?

Like Bob Dylan says, "There's so much oppression, can't keep track of it anymore".

Good post/comments!

There is a deliberate foreign policy agenda which this is all part of...to seperate the United States Government from all international accords and agreements. Nuclear Proliferation, International Criminal Court, Geneva Conventions, Nuremburg War Crimes Standards, United Nations, Kyote Accords, and the like stand in the way of creating a global corrupt corporate police state. A CRAMPS agenda being established in America for our country to be used as the corporate military industrial police state headquarters to protect corporate globalization and its planned ongoing exploitation of the human and natural resources of the world.

Iraq is an international war crime. Crimes against humanity in Colombia. Expanding corporate police prison camps in Cuba and elsewhere. We are all on the slippery slope toward fascism that may be necessary for corporate royalty to try and cling to power. If the natives get restless here at home, Homeland Security, the Patriot Act, domestic military and intelligence operations, FEMA, the corporate media, and the White House are all making plans to deal with us and protect the corporate homeland.

If things really get out of hand, the government has the FEAR FACTOR, just like the Republican NBC TV show of the same name. Create a catastrophic event within America in order to insure Americans remain subservient compliant afraid and insecure loyal corporate subjects. Another 9/11 or worse!

This government knew it was going to commit war crimes, knew Iraq had no WMD's, knew it would round up people into a global detention limbo, and knew it would torture. Our government is under the control of war criminals. traitors, and mass murderers. We need to stop reacting and start acting!

Time to replace the corporate government with a people's government!

Viva la Revolucion!

Freebird

Yeah, but we can make it up to them when they come home "Homeless War Vets Don't Know Where to Turn" MSNBC News Headlines

PS #11 I n all fairness, our Vet. Hospital (WPB) has been wonderfull and comprehensive in the care of my son. No complaints. However, he would have been homeless , if not for family.

Check this quote:

This so-called ill treatment and torture in detention centers, stories of which were spread everywhere among the people, and later by the prisoners who were freed… were not, as some assumed, inflicted methodically, but were excesses committed by individual prison guards, their deputies, and men who laid violent hands on the detainees.

Sounds like if was by the DOJ ... here is the NAZI source who was talking about the holocaust.

John McCain and others with personal experience have said all along that torture of detainees isn't only a violation of the Geneva Convention, but will lead to our own soldiers being tortured as prisoners.

The Bush administration is willing to jeopardize the safety of our soldiers, now and in the future, by adopting its own definition of torture and applying it not only to terrorists, but anyone held as a material witness during a search for actual terrorists.

In answer to a previous poster, who asked what the tipping point for the Bush administration would be: I'd say it's whenever a majority of our soldiers in Iraq decides it's no longer worth it. I believe the figure is now at 40%, so we're getting there.

Yes,one day our soldiers will say enough is enough,and will start wanting to come home,we must do our part to help them get here.Rice was confirmed today,you can get a list of the senators and reps,that voted for her,I got a list of all the senators and house reps,I have emailed some of the senators,shaming them for passing her and I will email the ones that voted against her,thanking them.Everyone should email them,raise hell with them,plan on replacing them in 2006 and tell them so.Our voices can and will make a difference.

I see George Bush came out himself today to give a damage control spin to the 35 dead American soldiers...parroting his inaugural speech about freedom, saying if we don't bring it to the Middle East it will become a haven for terrorism. Ha! And I wonder just whose oil and gas policies are responsible for it becoming exactly that George? This man needs to give his speeches to a mirror!

Oh, he's back on Terror, now!
I thought he had moved on to tyranny.

They ARE free. They're free to throw the greedy, thieving, murdering, invading oil and gas bastard terrorists out of their goddamned country!!!

The torture problem runs deep. It is entirely outside of political jurisdiction and has been going on through our entire history. It's just more in the news now.

I don't know what the gain is in it. I thought that the best way to extract information from prisoners was by getting them into the jailor's confidence.

I was so disturbed by the Winter Soldier testimony from Viet Nam, that it always haunts me. I would like to know just what it is that makes a person able to commit these acts. It's as if just killing in war isn't quite enough.

Further to my link at #6
US citizen Roy Hallams: "I have been arrested by a resistance group in Iraq," the bearded, middle-aged man dressed in civilian clothes, says on the tape. Its authenticity could not be verified.

“I'm asking for help because my life is in danger because it's been proved that I work for American forces……

I'm not asking for any help from President Bush because I know of his selfishness and unconcern to those who've been pushed into this hellhole," he says.

"I am asking for help from Arab rulers, especially (Libyan) President Muammar Gaddafi, because he is known for helping those who are suffering. I am also asking Arab leaders to help me in this situation so that I can be released as quickly as possible from this definite death."

link

Guess who’s helping and if your guess is Dumbya you’d be wrong.

Cheryl--Thanks for all the great links, and helping us stay informed.

You're welcome Pushcat. I've just been bursting with stuff to share because I've been keeping all to myself for a while. It's nice to find people that want to talk about this stuff.

Sheila #15, good for you.

Dredd,thanks,I spent all afternoon yesterday telling the Senators off that voted for Rice,and spent a good hour this morning thanking the ones that did not vote for her,its important that we tell them what we think.I finally got to watch Freinheit 911,it sure opened my eyes to some things I did not know.Every one that voted for Bush should watch it,I bought my own copy and I am spreading it around.

I'm still reading all your comments. Keep up the fighting spirit. Keep sending supporting letters to those elected officials who really know the difference between right from wrong, and lambast and vote out those who don't.

I wonder if the case would have gotten even this far had it not been for the “trial lawyers” representing the former POWs. It clearly wasn’t the U.S. Attorney General who brought the case on their behalf. Indeed, for all the AG has done for them, they may as well have simply relied upon a polite note to Sadam seeking redress!

For all the ridicule some people throw at trial lawyers, I'd rather have a trial lawyer on my side than a toll-free 800 number.