Thanks John!

Just wondered if anybody noticed that Michael Moore has a link to the Brad Blog story on Neil Young! Bottom of main page.

Let's get busy!
I got a complaint against HAVA!
How 'bout y'all?

shw

Thanks, John.

Wow,I wondered why no one had mentioned something like this.Surely,we can't just stand by and let them COMPLETELY destroy everything accomplished up to this point in our history!Our forefathers would NOT stand for this for even ONE year,much less FIVE!!THERE IS NO OTHER OPTION,WE MUST STOP THESE POWER MAD MANIACS,WHILE WE STILL HAVE AN AMERICA!THIS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS,AND IF WE DON'T STOP BUSH'S RAMPAGE,HE'LL DESTROY THE WHOLE WORLD,OUR WHOLE PLANET!!WE MUST NOT ALLOW ANOTHER RIPOFF ELECTION.LET'S ALL DO IT!!!!

A Silver Bullet ,maybe .
6 or 7 MILLION ?

"a complaint which must then be dealt with in 90 days time"
Yea right LOL

Spread the word on all the blogs you visit .

John

Those who file should take note that the factual allegations are to be under oath.

This means that a person must be sure of the facts so that they are careful not to commit perjury.

The language in this act is unclear in many ways. It does not tell where to file or anything of the sort.

It does mention state administrative procedures, so those filing complaints should become familiar with the administrative procedure laws in their state.

Some states have administrative law judges (ALJ's) who are quite competent. Some states have a system not unlike the courts, in that, discovery, depositions, motions, subpoenas, and the like are in the state's administrative rules.

Some states allow appeals to the courts from decisions of an ALJ.

One way to think of it might be arbitration hearings.

One thing to remember is that procedures are likely going to vary from state to state. Yet I note that HAVA calls for uniform rules.

Two issues:

1) Standing: the issues you mention were applicable mostly to disabilities. This may mean, in some or all states, that the person bringing the complaint be disabled.

On non-disability issues it may mean that the complaining party be damaged or deprived personally, rather than a general perceived harm that happens to someone else or everyone else.

2) All of this may be cleared up and should appear in The State Plan described and required by HAVA (42 USC 15403):

"The State has filed with the Commission a plan for the implementation of the uniform, nondiscriminatory administrative complaint procedures required under section 402 (or has included such a plan in the State plan filed under paragraph (1)), and has such procedures in place for purposes of meeting the requirements of such section."

The Commission should have copies of all state plans.

I will try to find them on their website ...

Bottom line: this could be more complicated than a court case in the long run. So folks who drink cool aid and wear tin hats had better sit this one out.

It can take you down emotionally if you are not prepared well for the black hole of administrative procedures that can turn up.

Dredd #6 - Thanks, I think you are misstating about 'perjury'. The complainant signs the complaint and swears to it's accuracy but that does not mean that if they are incorrect in their assumptions they can be held for perjury. Perjury does not have a place in this.

Each state must have their own plan for how to handle complaints. HAVA just gives the basic outline and the states are to flesh-out that outline. For instance Washington state set their program up but they limited the time for making complaints to 60 days after any election. I pointed out that this was in violation of HAVA, they agreed and they are changing the rules they wrote.

Each state's plan should be on the website of the entity that runs elections in the state.

I also don't think "standing" comes into play. The law says that 'any person' can file a complaint; not any person who is affected or who has standing. This is the same as ADA Title II complaints. Anyone can file them. You don't have to be disabled.

John #7

The machinations of this will vary from state to state, but I am very sure that verified complaints can and do bring criminal prosecutions for abuse (Florida Law).

The law in your state has been:

"Every person who, in any action, proceeding, hearing, inquiry or investigation, in which an oath may lawfully be administered, shall swear that he will testify, declare, depose or certify truly, or that any testimony, declaration, deposition, certificate, affidavit or other writing by him subscribed is true, and who in such action, proceeding, hearing, inquiry or investigation shall state or subscribe as true any material matter which he knows to be false, shall be guilty of perjury in the first degree and shall be punished by imprisonment in the state penitentiary for not more than fifteen years" (RCW 9.72.010).

The supreme court in your state has a long history in this matter. In State v Heyes it held that:

"A first-degree perjury prosecution may be based on a verified complaint containing false allegations regarding material matters(44 Wn.2d 579, Wash. Supreme Court, 1954, bold added).

Your state supreme court, in reaching its decision, quoted a California case that reached the same conclusion: People v. Godines, 17 Cal. App. (2d) 721, 62 P. (2d) 787.

Standing to be addressed in another post.

Gosh what is the worry about perjury? I think you are getting all het up for nothing.

My state is violating HAVA regulations, and I intend to file a complaint about that. Where is the perjury there, pray tell?

Jeanene #9

When no false statements are made under oath there can be no perjury.

So state the facts truthfully and there will be no worries.

Do not cast your fate to the wind by being unsure of your factual allegations.

Keep it all under your control by double checking the facts, sharing them with another person before filing (such as John Gideon or someone at his site), and in general following other forms of common sense.

And file it!