READER COMMENTS ON
"Late-Night Capitol Hill/Clint Curtis Rumormongering"
(21 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2005 @ 2:05 am PT...
The feedback I'm getting is virtually the same as you stated here Brad, that indeed several Senators will stand with the 24 reps. Indeed certified electoral votes from one or more states MAY be disallowed as "improperly seated". That's the gist of what I'm hearing and ranting anyways.
Since the challenge is a constitutional law issue rather than legal, so thus supercedes any legal laws (ie: through lesislation or the courts), these rumors are starting to make sense. My understanding of the basis for constitutional challenge is:
(1) "each state must adhere to its own written law for selecting electors". This requires the states to follow their own written laws in the execution of elections. The laws must be in place in advance of the election and not altered or deviated from throughout. While likely this did not happen in Ohio and several other states, legal proof of fraud or other wrongdoing is not required for successful challenge. It is perfectly clear, EVIDENCE or a CLAIM that a state or states did not follow their own written laws is enough for successful challenge.
(2) A state or states cannot change election law after the fact to fit the election. This important fact is made perfectly clear. Nor, may a court rule on the interpretation of a state's election law because constitutional law supercedes. This is a valuable protection and the outrage behind the improper Supreme court ruling in Bush v Gore 2000, which appointed Bush our president.
(3) Nor can a state or states send or offer a different slate of electors than those certified by said state or states. This means that once certified by the state of origin, any "improperly seated" certified electors cannot be substituted for other electors or electoral votes. The votes are simply null and void and not counted.
My hypothesis may be flawed but if this is the angle being being pursued by 24 representatives and presumably several senators, then we are in for a wonderful show Jan. 6 2004.
Lets not relax just yet though. We do not know what will happen hours from now so please, please keep making those calls to every rep and senator in the country.
Thanks Brad, you ROCK the free world!!
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2005 @ 2:20 am PT...
Thanks! Torqued, for a wonderful post. It really helps when you have the rules they are supposed to abide by. I think it goes without saying that Ohio electors probably shouldn't be seated. It's going to be an interesting day, to say the least.
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2005 @ 3:48 am PT...
Brad, you funny, funny man. atty jim... I love it.
And sooner or later, all of us will stand up. The Senators who stand today are the true representatives of their constituents not becuase they want Kerry to be president, but because they want to really know who the president is.
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2005 @ 5:03 am PT...
January 6, 2005
Election Results to Be Certified, With Little Fuss From Kerry
By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG
WASHINGTON, Jan. 5 - The day before a joint session of Congress to certify the results of the 2004 presidential election, Senator John Kerry said Wednesday that he would not participate in a possible protest by Democrats who are challenging President Bush's victory in Ohio.
Some House Democrats will almost certainly object. On Wednesday, Representative John Conyers Jr. of Michigan, the senior Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, issued a report saying there were "ample grounds for challenging the electors from the state of Ohio."
A formal challenge would not affect the outcome of the election, because both houses of Congress are controlled by Republicans, who promise to certify Mr. Bush as the winner. But it would force lawmakers to abandon the ordinarily polite ritual, which takes place in the House chamber. Instead, the House and Senate would retreat to their own chambers, on opposite sides of the Capitol, for a two-hour debate and a formal vote on the objection.
Such a debate could prove uncomfortable for Democrats, who do not want to be viewed as sore losers. But Republicans seemed eager for it.
"They are really just trying to stir up their loony left," John Feehery, a spokesman for Speaker J. Dennis Hastert, said of the Democrats.
I LOVE THESE LAST TWO LINES! THAT SUMS IT UP IN A NUTSHELL! HAVE AT IT DEMS!
AND REMEMBER: TODAY'S REPUBLICAN PARTY IS NO FURTHER RIGHT THAN THE JFK DEMOCRATS OF YOUR PARENTS.
BRAD, COME ON OVER TO THE SUNNY SIDE OF POLITICS, LIKE I SAID:
YOUR PARENTS WOULD BE PROUD OF YOU IF YOU SWITCHED!
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2005 @ 6:05 am PT...
There has also been discussion today of challenging the Electors of at least three different states! (Ohio, Florida and New Mexico being the front-runners in the rumormill department)
Wow. We have been so beat down by this admin and a do-nothing congress we did not think of this.
Thank you ... back to email, fax, phones ... to urge a challenge to New Mexico, Florida, and Ohio!
BTW, I too experienced having to wait, wait, wait for the phones to be not-busy.
It was like waiting to vote in Ohio.
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2005 @ 7:15 am PT...
Truth Out is reporting that:
Sources with Rainbow-PUSH have confirmed that Senator Barbara Boxer of California will stand with House members to protest 'irregularities' during Ohio's presidential election.
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2005 @ 7:16 am PT...
Check out yahoo news. Senator Boxer WILL contest the Ohio Electors.
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2005 @ 7:21 am PT...
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2005 @ 7:27 am PT...
7:00am pt c-span just annoinced Boxer will challenge vote.......................Thank you Ms. Boxer......you will be my hero if you really do
it....sometime it takes a woman to get things
and today I am proud to be one. Thank you
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2005 @ 7:34 am PT...
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2005 @ 7:39 am PT...
I am just a poor boy and my story's seldom told / I have squandered my resistance / for a pocket full of mumbles / such are promises / All lies and jest / still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest ...
oops --- sorry! wrong Boxer! Well this is great news and I couldn't resist the joke ... and it's a great blog too. Thanks again, Brad.
I do declare / there were times when I was so lonesome / I took some comfort there ...
Keep rockin' it, folks.
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2005 @ 7:48 am PT...
Great news! Now we get to see the constitution in action! I hope she doesn't fly in twin engine prop planes without a re pub sitting next to her though!
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2005 @ 7:53 am PT...
Now lets move on as Brad suggested. I just sent this email:
Dear Representatives and Senators,
We take a moment of silence to remember a GREAT Republican, a great american:
Judge John Sirica
He had the distinction of being intellectually honest, working his way up from poverty, and finally to being tempted by the greatest powers that be in our country and denying them and instead holding fast to the rule of law.
You know as well as I that he could have made a deal to be on the Supreme Court. Instead he opted to be a great american.
Judge John Sirica a great american first, and a great republican second.
May we all honor his memory by doing as he did.
Please object to the electoral votes from Ohio, Florida, and New Mexico. Whether or not it is merely a symbolic gesture, at least it honors his legacy.
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2005 @ 8:01 am PT...
Bingo!! Finally the Dem's pulled the trigger. Boxer jabs.......
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2005 @ 8:04 am PT...
Boxer jabs ...
Both Judge Sirica and Senator Boxer are fighters in the true sense.
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2005 @ 8:33 am PT...
I'm afraid theres no one like Judge Sirica sitting on the bench anywhere near or in Ohio. But thanks for bringing a great and honest judge back to our attention.
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2005 @ 9:45 am PT...
To hell with election reform! We need a new government! We want the mass murdering Bush out! NOW! Rolling over to allow two stolen elections must never be tolerated, especially when our inaction to permit it empowers a right-wing Christain "fascista" to continue to wage war, denegrate our country, and destroy our Mother Earth! To suggest that we must follow the law with electoral college challenges while they are allowed to blantantly violate it, is to allow their tyranny to rule over all of us! VIVA LA REVOLLUCION!
Now that I got that off my chest, congratulations to Brad and all for your good efforts!
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2005 @ 12:19 pm PT...
Somebody pinch me. Are the Democrats really gonna fight back against Neocon fascist bullying of voters and Republican controlled vote machines? I went to sleep with Kerry ahead in the polls and woke up with George Bush President. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me.....I can't get fooled again.
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2005 @ 12:27 pm PT...
If the Democratic senators publish a letter calling for "electoral reform," at least I can use it to clean myself and blow my nose, if the paper isn't too coarse.
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
Marco of Berkeley
said on 1/6/2005 @ 12:30 pm PT...
Very nice touch with the rumor mongering, Brad... I'm enjoying the drama. I hope this turns true!
I called Barbara Boxer today in Los Angeles and Washington DC, my family called her, too. The staffers were very receptive and thanked us for our comments, saying they really needed the comments. Keep faxing, calling, mailing, etc... keep going!!! We're doing it!
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
said on 1/7/2005 @ 11:10 am PT...
> I am just a poor boy and my story's seldom told / I have squandered my resistance / for a pocket full of mumbles / such are promises / All lies and jest / still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest ...
As a singer and a drummer, great song!!!!!