The Raw Story article said they are filing with Attorney General John Ashcroft.

Uhmm, that does not sound too good. And is he going to call them and us "Michael Moore Conspiracy Theorists" too? ala Jan 6th house republicans?

Can you say "rule of law" boys and girls??

Nail KB's ass to the wall!

The beginning of the "end"....... say.... Attorney Jim... your thoughts on this subject?????

G

The counter to "conspiracy theorist"

If someone says, "are you some kind of conspiracy theorist?"

YOU say, "are you a concidence theorist?". Is it a coincidence that 19 out of 20 times the touch screen voting "glitch" affects Kerry voters over Bush voters? Is it a coincidence that nearly each and every "glitch" screws democrats? Is it a coincidence that the secret voting software is owned by partisan Republicans? Also a coincidence (sorry about the misspells) that the senior management of Diebold is infested with convicted computer hackers and fellons?

I like "coincidence theorist." That's an oxymoron, of course, because a coincidence, by definition, is not theoretical. But it gets the point across well.

I also ask people, "If I flipped a coin 100 times and it came up heads 99 times, would you assume that's a coincidence, or a rigged coin?" Ergo, if votes are flipped in one direction 99 times out of 100, is that a coincidence, or a rigged machine?

I'd love to be a fly on the wall inside the White House right now. Blackwell couldn't keep his ego out of things, so with his bragging and his use of the Great Seal he's given Democrats an easy entree into an investigation of what really went on in Ohio in November. Even if a special prosecutor isn't appointed, the press has to cover the story.

Question??

Granted a request has been filed.

But ... who decides whether on not to move forward on Conyers request? A Republican Attorney General or the Republican controlled Congress??? Who will force action? Does the rule of law apply with an investigation mandatory???

Anybody know what's next??

G

Face it folks. As sad as it may seem, Ashcroft is on his way out, and Bush's #1 Buddy Gonzales is on his way to confirmation by the Senate. As the new attorney general there is zero chance a special counsel will be appointed. End of investigation. How I wish it were not true.

I don't think an investigation is any more likely at this point than a successful contesting of the election was likely. But those who believe in the rule of law have to make the effort. And, honestly, I do believe Conyers' persistence and the widespread internet activism is paying off in slowly chipping away at the facade built by the neocons. I think I am detecting a few double takes among the mainstreamers.

There are blatant illegal activities enumerated by Conyers and they won't go away and any Attorney General who refuses to appoint a special counsel will lose credibility.

LOL...Alberto Gonzalez' credibility is already at sub-zero, so I don't believe they'll lose any sleep over this at the White House. Let's face it, these guys know they're in for another four years and quite frankly it's a "screw you" attitude that will come from these already unbearably arrogant criminals.

Hopefully, that pompous arrogance will eventually be their downfall. Otherwise, storming the Bastille may be the only option remaining. Viva La Revolucion!

Some how, some way, we need to get the MSM off its obese butt. There has been less print and broadcast coverage of this action than Prince Harry's gaffe, Scott Peterson trial, Kobe Bryant or the Grainer Court Martial. At what point will this become sexy enough for the NYT and our lesser local rags to give it the coverage it requires? Coverage on a DAILY basis until there is a resolution!

Ashcroft has until the 28th to respond, and hopefully a confirmation for Gonzales will take some time - perhaps, not at all. (Athough I'm certain this administration could come up with someone even far more sinister.)

If this is ignored by the Attorney General, no matter who it may be, it just adds further credence to the idea that the election was far beyond questionable - that it was outright intentional voter suppression and fraud.

We have to get the word out to everyone we know. Your aunt in Memphis, your father in Denver, your not-so-favorite cousin in Modesto, your old boss in Boise. Let everyone know, so when it is swept under the rug, as they will surely attempt to do, many more people will notice the "bulge", and question why it is there. We can only have strength in "educated" numbers. Send a Winter newsletter outlining all of your favorite politcal issues and concerns. Be clever - do it with humor, but get the word OUT THERE!

Don't give this present administration the opportunity to disregard this, along with other vital issues shrouded by this secretive and select group in the White House, simply because the people were once again uninformed or too busy to be informed.

As "pushcat" said, "There is zero chance a special counsel will be appointed. End of investigation." - All the more reason to work like hell to get the issues out there. Take our preaching beyond the choir.

Cheers to Conyers, Boxer, and all of the others truly committed to democracy..

Yes, we must always remember to use the opponent's strength against them. (As did bin Laden.) Now that we have a new news medium, these "dealings" are not going to go away like they usually do. I don't mind seeing who is who in this administration and blowing the whistle on their corruption when it exists...and to keep blowing until it's dealt with to our satisfaction. The more the merrier, so to speak...get em while their hot!! It'll be their own downfall.

BTW, a loud Republican at my work (1 of maybe 4 republicans in a company of over 2,000), intimated to me that I was being naive - Democrats cheat too.

And may I add a slight silly? I conjured up an image of potential danger - whether or not necklace crosses should be considered potentially dangerous weapons on flights!? (Don't anyone get angry please, I believe in and love God and even have a necklace of my own that I don't wear).

Freebird said: "LOL...Alberto Gonzalez' credibility is already at sub-zero, so I don't believe they'll lose any sleep over this at the White House. Let's face it, these guys know they're in for another four years and quite frankly it's a "screw you" attitude that will come from these already unbearably arrogant criminals."

Of course, his credibility is sub-zero with you and me. But was it Patrick Leahy who said, "I like him"? Harry Reid said something similar...and so on and so on. My point was that Conyers' action and all of us doing the right thing with equal persistence will chip away at his "public" credibility. It's something we have to do. I mean the facade that the neocons have constructed is really not that impressive a structure. It has loose bolts, faulty wiring, etc. mainly because the gap is huge between the perceptions of many supporters and the reality of being an enemy of constitutional law and the nature of U.S. citizenship and of being a cult of global power and rape. (It also appears the gap between actual public support and the pretend support is quite large.) The gap becomes more visible as we do our Tom Paine thing and a hundred other actions, taking a sledgehammer to the structure. (It won't come down with one swing of the hammer.)

It is my fervent hope that the egregiously criminal, arrogant, and really very crude mentality of this particular bunch of crony capitalists/fascists will provide a wedge to a more general popular understanding of what we have allowed to develop in the drive toward globalization - particulary it's phony use of "American values".

We know he has broken the law. But what if we could use this to tie him to the fraud. We need to inspect the "official looking" letters sent out pre-election day. I cannot find ANY info about them. Did they have a seal? This might be the thing that links Blackwell to fraud in Ohio! If there are distinctive seals on both the campaign and the election supression letters we might be able to tie the fraud to him.

Ashcroft, then Gonzales, investigate a Republican? Not bloody likely. Remember how loyalty to Bush seems to be the single most carreer-determining value in the White House (why Powell goes and Rummy stays).

What Conyers is doing, I suspect, is keep the ball rolling until a real investigation actually occurs. When Nov02 ends up on the table of the FBI or the MSM finally smell carreer-giving blood of Watergate proportions. At that point, all the Republican (and Democrat) evasions of these thorny issues will add to the scandal, and even greater problems than long lines in Ohio will be exposed.

Another place to look for salvation: OSCE (Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe) and it's Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights (ODIHR). It's the organisation that, amongst other things, monitored Ukraine's elections. They also had election observers in the US on Nov 2. They posted a "preliminary report" on Nov 4 on their website. You can read it here.

If you can read diplomatese, it was not very kind to the US election system.

The preliminary reports also states they will issue a full report aproximately 6 weeks after the completion of the electoral process. It hasn't been published yet.

Were I John Conyers, I'd send them all the data I have. Perhaps he already has.

Lori said:

"...many more people will notice the "bulge", and question why it is there..."

---------------------------

LOL!!

You're only talking about a "figurative" bulge.

Back in October, the MSM ignored an actual real bulge on the President's back and continue to do so!!!!

As a result, the majority of Americans never seriously questioned why the President of the United States had a dorsal rectangular protrusion present during all 3 debates.

If the MSM can't follow-up on this story, then I don't have much hope for them on more complicated stories such as the one involving Ken Blackwell.

God help America!!

Re: #15 and #16

Thanks for the OSCE reference.

I couldn't agree more about the apparent futility of it all. However, we wouldn't be at this site, if we truly believed it futile.

The "bulge" description was deliberately chosen. That should be the descriptive term for anything questionable regarding this group. I will be relentless in my efforts to expose all of their errant, illegal, and immoral "bulges". And will praise and support all others who do likewise.

Do I think Ashcroft, Gonzales, or any other Republican AG present or future will assign a special prosecutor to investigate any of this - I don't . However, I do believe that with continued discovery, thorough investigations, open accusations, intense pressure, constant exposure disseminated by intelligent, articulate voices of reason, will evoke a positive change. It will be a long and bumpy ride, however I'm committed to it. I have nine grandchildren and a tenth on the way, and will do everthing I can to improve the world they will inherit.

As for Bush's defibulator, I know the MSM backed-off, but they can't back-off on the rest of his "bulges" if we take to the streets demanding investigations and calling for change. Over and over again ... em masse.

God love ya, Lori!

Never give up!

You can't lose if you never quit.

Re #s 15-17...
Indeed it seems that the BULGE keeps growing ever larger. I imagine they have to keep replacing the rugs with new & larger ones under which to sweep all their dirt.
People like Feeney (if the allegations brought by Clint Curtis are true) et al are taking a big gamble with their lives & careers, putting them on the line in loyal service to such corrupt leaders. I wonder if they ever contemplate what their fate might be if it all comes unraveled. They are so vulnerable.
They must know that this admin has a history of cutting loose those who did their bidding but who then became a liability. The loyalty pendulum does not swing both ways.

I think one thing we could all do--as #15 suggested Rep. Conyers do--is contact the OSCE, send them our individual info, thoughts, fears, suspicions in regard to whichever aspects of the Vast Fabric of Corruption are most relevant to each of us; inundate them so that it is impressed upon them that 'something is rotten in the state of Denmark'!! (no offense, Denmark)
I mean, we need to speak to our brothers out in the rest of the world, methinks.
What do you think??

Great idea, Joan - an astounding majority of the rest of the world agrees with us Bradvillers. Just let them know how they can help - all over Europe people will want to pitch in! Let's go!

Excellent thought, Joan. Couldn't agree with you more. Perhaps we could coalesce at the VR to increase interest with respect to our communcations with the OSCE.

As "czaragorn" said, "an astounding majority of the rest of the world agrees with us Bradvillers. Just let them know how they can help - all over Europe people will want to pitch in! Let's go!"

From what I understand, the international community is getting ready to put the screws into this bunch of bastards. That's what I think Kerry was doing on his trip.

I think Conyers can safely assume that Ashcroft/Gonzalez will either refuse to investigate, or do a lousy investigation and clear Blackwell.

(1) Therefore, Conyers should be prepared to sit on their shoulders and watch the investigation every inch of the way, step by step, and then do a detailed written report on their errors, ommissions and lousy efforts...all of law enforcement, lawyers, prosecutors throughout the country will read the report and Ashcroft/Gonzalez will go down on record as part of the corruption. (Kill as many birds as you can with one stone).

(2) Therefore, Conyers should absolutely NOT be relying on Ashcroft/Gonzalez to do their jobs honestly, as they are supposed to do. He must get anther law enforcement body whom he can TRUST (careful, tricky) to ensure a thorough and honest investigation, starting NOW, to carry on as long as it takes to finish the job. BOTTOM LINE = ABSOLUTELY NO CORRUPTION TO OCCUR IN CONYERS' INVESTIGATION! NO LIES, NO PLANTING OF EVIDENCE. WE WANT THE TRUTH WITH IRREFUTABLE SUPPORTING EVIDENCE. As usual, what is required is hard work by honest, competent individuals.

Keep up the good work, Conyers. You cannot lose them all. You july need to win the final, big one. And you decide when that final, big one is.

Sorry for the typo.

You only need to win the final, big one. And you decide when that final, big one is.

(In other words, you don't stop until you win.)

And the OSCE and ODIHR can obtain their copy of Conyers' 102 page report from:

action news' central station, for all the only really important news of the day:

Blogged by Brad on 1/6/2005 www.bradblog.com

P.S. In no way whatsoever am I inferring Conyers would do anything dishonest. I am only being realistic in that over-zealous law inforcement persononel have been known to over-step the bounds of the law when they believe someone is guilty, but they are having difficulties proving it. I believe you just keep on going, doing the right thing, no matter how impossible it seems, until the answer (usually) falls from the sky into your lap. Speaking from personal experience here.

One more word before I say Good-night.

If what you want is right and just, and will benefit many people who are less fortunate than you are, then God and the universe will conspire to provide all the assistance and opportunities needed to achieve the goal at the right time. You need only be alert to this providence, surround yourself with good, like-minded people, and be so determined that failure is not an option.

(Another powerful conspiracy theory)

Ooooh, Peggy.

That's the kind of conspiracy theory I love.

It's not even theory.... it's fact. Gotta love that universe.

I thought Gore was starting up his own TV station. Why hasn't that happened? Can't the wealthy Dems. get their act together and DO something useful?

(Brad could do the news for them!!!!)

Come on, Dems. Get your television media counter-attack underway! It will have run-away ratings.

Hey Braddo:

Can you say "waste of time"! Hahahahaha

Why don't all you wanna be rebels just go back to playing video games. You are better at that.

LOSERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, Mr. Coyouhoga county - but people are very busy now changing America and the world for the better - we are finding good, clever leaders to replace the corrupt ones now in place. BTW, did you get an invite to the $50m coronation?

Rumor has it that people close to Brad were offered tickets to the innaugeration because of their support of the party and Bush in the last election.

Are they going Brad?

Bet they don't take you with them!

The good ol' mushmouthed Yale-cowboy's alleged favorite philosopher got right to the point long ago, when he said, "LOVE of MONEY is the root of all evil."

Many are still willing, in exchange for earthly riches, to sacrifice the young of the nation on the alter of that ol' golden calf called Moloch-Baal. Thousands of years now, they have paid homage to the father of lies and the theif in the night, who comes only to pillage and murder, rape and destroy. Soon enough, they will be called to account by a much higher authority.

Hey, Atty Jimmo, this one's for the whole profane, greedy crew, but it's especially for you, right now. It's another quote from the source you and G-Dub publicly claim to honor: J the C, himself:
(and pay attention, dammit!)

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit."

Which type of "fruit" would you say has been brought forth by the mumblin' POTUS & his PNAC posse? How do you personally, Atty Jimmo, classify the following "fruits," good or bad?

Abu Ghraib?

Guantanamo?

Shock & Awe?

:plain: :crazy:

word.

re: #32, now, Jimmo...

LOSERS!!!!?

I, for one, would rather lose honestly than win by cheating.

Sadly, there are many who would disagree with me on that sentiment.

I'm certain I don't understand how they can shave off their whiskers of a morning, what with the requirement of being able to look themselves in the face...

Is that why they have such sour, sad looks worn into the lines of their faces? ...self-knowlege?

Beefhaze #35 - Thank you for that quote.