w/ Brad & Desi
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NATIONWIDE STUDY FINDS ALMOST NO VOTER FRAUD
Just 10 cases of in-person impersonation in all 50 states since 2000...
VIDEO: 'Rise of the Tea Bags'
Brad interviews American patriots...
'Democracy's Gold Standard'
Hand-marked, hand-counted ballots...
GOP Voter Registration Fraud Scandal 2012...
The Secret Koch Brothers Tapes...
|MORE BRAD BLOG 'SPECIAL COVERAGE' PAGES...|
READER COMMENTS ON
"Election Day Open Thread"
(78 Responses so far...)
Looks like at least one explosion in West Baghdad. Casualties reported. Unfortunately, more to come.
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
... Peggy said on 1/29/2005 @ 9:47 pm PT...
Hi, Fin. No I'm not watching TV, but I will check in here for the comments. The Iraqis are in very serious trouble, inflicted by the U.S.A. If there is to be any justice at all, I hope the Republicans will also be in (slight by comparison) "serious" trouble with voters by the end of this Iraqi election. Fox will probably quit televising it soon, if it continues to go as badly as you have noted. The truth about Iraq, like the violence, hurts too much...and Fox and the MSM can't handle it.
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
... Rusty said on 1/29/2005 @ 9:57 pm PT...
I'm having trouble watching the coverage.
I gag everytime I hear sanitized bullshit from MSM about "democratizing" a nation ...
US Moron Neocon Regime imposed this upon the nation of Iraq. "C'mon ... swallow it babies."
It is hugely different than the collective consciousness that began our own revolution ...
And our fearless fucking asshole bozo dumass DANGEROUS leader says to the people of Iraq "c'mon ... risk your worthless life to make *ME* look good. Vote in this meaningless bullshit charade."
I HATE IT. I pray the innocent people of Iraq stay safe and don't risk their lives making King W look good. I hope US soldiers don't die making King W look good.
I HATE IT. I wish I could turn it off.
*sigh* ... my chest hurts.
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
... understandinglife said on 1/29/2005 @ 10:17 pm PT...
Why would anyone 'vote' in that occupied Nation when 'voting' means a high probability of dieing and when the outcome was determined by bush's neocon cabal, anyway.
Talk about a dumb, die situation!!
BE THE bush OPPOSITION; 24/7
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
... Teresa said on 1/29/2005 @ 10:47 pm PT...
A crying sham.
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
... Torqued said on 1/30/2005 @ 1:33 am PT...
Freebird it's been days... Who gave you permission to take a vacation without informing us your whereabouts?
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
... Torqued said on 1/30/2005 @ 3:35 am PT...
Fox news has started their "the Iraqi election is a resounding success" tirade while the camera remains focused on an ever-empty polling station.
A few bytes of democracy in Iraq:
MORTAR AND GUNFIRE
Blast hits Basra voting station
Bloody start to Iraqi election
Iraqis Vote in Election, 27 Die in Attacks
Seven die in poll attacks
Marine killed in action west of Baghdad
Iraq President Warns Against Low Turnout
Attacks plague Iraqi election day
Explosions in Iraqi cities as polls open
This from Back To Iraq Blog: 12:29:48 PM Interesting. I'm watching CNN International, and the shots of long lines and happy voters are almost all coming from Iraqi Kurdistan where the voters are motivated and the environment is (relatively) safe. The rub is that CNNi is not identifying the images as coming from Kurdistan:
And this: 1:15:38 PM Nine suicide bombs in Baghdad alone, with at least 20 dead. A bomb went off near the home of the Justice Minister. There are a number of outgoing mortars from my neighborhood in the last 10 minutes.
MSNBC reports at 10:10am Iraq time: "only 150 voters out of 600,000 so far in Ramadi, Iraq"
Someone needs to inform the Iraqis that bush is building 14 military bases in Iraq as they risk their lives for Demockracy!
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
... Teresa said on 1/30/2005 @ 4:18 am PT...
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
... Torqued said on 1/30/2005 @ 4:26 am PT...
Logged reports every few minutes can be found here on BBC News. All is not grim thankfully.
I haven't watched any boob tube on it. Plan to watch "This Week" this morning.
They are having a special report and will hopefully show more sides of the story.
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
... Nana said on 1/30/2005 @ 6:03 am PT...
"Few Iraqi voters turnout in Saddams hometown" http://www.uruknet.info?p=9297
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
... Nana said on 1/30/2005 @ 6:27 am PT...
#11 correction www.uruknet.info/
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
... Nana said on 1/30/2005 @ 6:48 am PT...
White House AP (21 min. ago) Rice:Election going better than expected http://story.news.yahoo....s?tmpl=index&cid=693
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
... Torqued said on 1/30/2005 @ 6:49 am PT...
More Bush demockracy and freedoom:
In a crucial eve-of-election development, the main Shi'ite list endorsed by Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani has dropped its electoral promise of seeking an immediate American withdrawal.
Simultaneously, Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi adopted the same position. "I will not set final dates," Allawi said.
For many Iraqis, the key appeal of the Shi'ite list has always been its promise to kick the Americans out, much more than the fact that it has been "blessed" by Sistani.
Last Minute Double Cross in Iraq
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
... Torqued said on 1/30/2005 @ 6:55 am PT...
Last Minute Double Cross in Iraq
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
... cheryl said on 1/30/2005 @ 9:14 am PT...
Double cross in Iraq? I'm stunned.
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
... Robert Fisher said on 1/30/2005 @ 9:16 am PT...
They should have the votes sent to a safe place, such as Ohio, to be counted. Perhaps they could convince Sec. of State Ken Blackwell and his loyal Republican cohorts to count the votes with their own personal Diebold and Triad machines. Only problem with that, unless they re-program the machines(again) Bush would automatically receive the most votes and be elected as the new President of Iraq. Wonder how Blackwell would explain that?
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
... cheryl said on 1/30/2005 @ 9:31 am PT...
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
... cheryl said on 1/30/2005 @ 9:36 am PT...
Well, here is my two cents worth.
The Iraqi so called elections reached a new low in the perception of what democracy is. It is so low that it is two or more notches less than what Joseph Stalin knew.
"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
The MSM and the political deceivers are promoting the notion that voting in and of itself is the hallmark of democracy.
Pure unadulterated bushit.
There were no election monitors, no exit polls, and no list, discussion, or knowledge of the parties or the candidates. What are they putting a piece of paper into a box for? Against what for what?
The degree of ignorance about this so-called election is so great the episode must be relegated to the Pathetic column.
Even if as many people, per capita, voted as was done here in the US, that is only the bare beginning of what an election is.
A country that is fully ignorant of elections and all they can be, never having had one in an entire generation or so, can not be said to have demonstrated democracy by standing in line.
Hell, they stand in line for days just to get a tank of gas. That is more of an indication of democracy than standing in line for one hour to drop a piece of paper into a box.
As if standing in line to drop a piece of paper into a box and then it goes who knows where to be handled who knows how by who knows who is the DNA of democracy.
The elections office isn't even in Iraq.
Little wonder that we believe MSM CONcepts are really demockracy promoted by CON artists posing as journalists.
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
... Teresa said on 1/30/2005 @ 11:04 am PT...
>The MSM and the political deceivers are promoting the notion that voting in and of itself is the hallmark of democracy.
Are you talking about the United States of America?
seen this yet? Sunmary of Attacks on Election Day
Ref: #15, #16
More like a quintuple cross. One for each side of the Pentagon.
Here is a link to black box voting where one of the regulars, catherine_a, has posted an item about the Iraqi election entitled A Brief Guide to the Iraqi Elections.
Oh, Rusty, I know how you feel.
COMMENT #26 [Permalink]
... Peggy said on 1/30/2005 @ 2:55 pm PT...
Hi, Robert #17 - They don't need to send the ballots to Ohio. It has been pre-determined that Bush's man will win this election, and then Bush WILL BE the President of Iraq. It is all part of the original plan - Little America in the Middle East. It doesn't matter how many Iraqis vote - the outcome was already decided many years ago. Bush IS President of Iraq.
COMMENT #27 [Permalink]
... Teresa said on 1/30/2005 @ 3:01 pm PT...
Does he speak arabic, do you think, Peggy?
COMMENT #28 [Permalink]
... cheryl said on 1/30/2005 @ 4:14 pm PT...
Teresa # 21.
It does not matter which geographical location a populace might be which thinks that casting a vote is all there is to a democracy.
Iraq, US, Russia and everywhere else are all the same.
It is elementary and no brainer election reality that the people who cast the votes decide nothing.
It is also elementary that the people who count the votes decide everything.
Unless it can be proven that the two are one and the same there is no democracy ... in the US and everywhere else.
The people of the Ukraine who get there ass out of bed and into the streets and mandate a new vote or else when the exit polls do not match the results are the example to follow.
Do not believe the MSM for one second those in Ohio and those in Iraq are the examples to follow.
COMMENT #30 [Permalink]
... cheryl said on 1/30/2005 @ 5:13 pm PT...
COMMENT #31 [Permalink]
... Robert Lockwood Mills said on 1/30/2005 @ 5:31 pm PT...
How could Bush speak Arabic? He can't even speak English.
I've been too busy to post much here, but I've been reading you all day. Thanks for all the good comments and links, everybody.
This election is a step forward, but it's one of the least fundamental steps because we're still occupying, there's still violence, there's major civil unrest and thousands of innocent civilians have died... not because of the lack of elections but because of the outrage caused by the occupation and the violence that outrage has generated.
Election or no election... there's still no success to be had because the real issues are not resolved by the election. - For instance, some have lost female or child relatives in the napalming of Baghdad (reported by the Independant), others have lost family or friends in Falluja (also attacked by phospherous 'special' weapons) - When carrying grief such as that... having a ballot shoved in your face as the answer to your problems is just insulting.
These people want something... but it's not an election or the delivery of more ordnance equipment (bombs). It's freedom, and that's something that they cannot truly have while we're there interfering and imposing our rules on them.
@RLM... Whatever noise comes out of Bush's mouth... still translates into grade-A bullshit in any language.. maybe that's how??
COMMENT #34 [Permalink]
... KestrelBrighteyes said on 1/31/2005 @ 5:27 am PT...
Has anyone seen anything that is supposed to be a sample ballot anywhere online? I'm curious.
COMMENT #35 [Permalink]
... KestrelBrighteyes said on 1/31/2005 @ 6:07 am PT...
Okay, does this give anybody besides me the creeps?
Reminds me of the story
(story by George Martin, later made into an "Outer Limits" episode)
COMMENT #36 [Permalink]
... cheryl said on 1/31/2005 @ 6:31 am PT...
Out with the old regime and in with the new. Will the statue stand where Saddam's used to be?
COMMENT #37 [Permalink]
... cheryl said on 1/31/2005 @ 6:39 am PT...
So lets see here, we can not count our votes here in the US. We install. We cheat, lie and manipulate
the voters. We steal their taxes, strip their education, export their jobs, switch their votes,
jail their leaders, and kill their heros. Yeap ,sure
is a great day in Iraq , oophs I mean America.
Bush and his boys are a disgrace and they make me ill.
COMMENT #39 [Permalink]
... cheryl said on 1/31/2005 @ 6:46 am PT...
Well, this report isn't quite as rosy as the MSM is painting it.
COMMENT #40 [Permalink]
... KestrelBrighteyes said on 1/31/2005 @ 7:02 am PT...
Cheryl #38 - That would be almost funny if it weren't so close to truth.
BTW, regarding my post at #37 -
I realized that some won't want to bother to read the book, and from the synopsis you won't get the analogy. Besides, the "Outer Limits" episode relates more to this than the actual story.
Basically, in the episode, a scientist smuggles some creatures, known as "Sandkings", out of a NASA research center after the grant for the project is killed. His original intent is to study the creatures, who are intelligent, semi-sentient, and of a hive mentality (and who, btw, are divided into different civilizations based mostly on color). His experiments soon turn to cruelty - refusing to feed one group to see what it will do to the others, or tearing down one of the "castles" they build for their queen, again, just for reaction. At the beginning, they look upon him as a god, and as part of their worship, build a sand statue in his likeness. After his cruelty moves to extremes, and they realize it is their "god" causing all the famine and destruction, they change the face of the statue from his likeness to a monster caracature.
Okay, so it's not a perfect analogy - but it was the first thing that popped into my un-caffeinated mind this morning. Anyway...
COMMENT #41 [Permalink]
... cheryl said on 1/31/2005 @ 7:18 am PT...
COMMENT #42 [Permalink]
... cheryl said on 1/31/2005 @ 7:27 am PT...
COMMENT #43 [Permalink]
... cheryl said on 1/31/2005 @ 7:35 am PT...
COMMENT #44 [Permalink]
... cheryl said on 1/31/2005 @ 7:39 am PT...
Here's a photo of a ballot
Interesting posts, Cheryl and all ...
Why is the MSM not telling us what independent organizations watched the handling of the ballots, the counting, how it is done, what protections are in place, and the background of those running for office?
Can you imagine election coverage by any organization that claimed to be journalists covering an american election merely by showing people standing in line? ("This is Peter Copout reporting, and there are lotsa folk standing in line. And the great thing about this is that they do not have to stand in line for several days like they do when they get fuel, no, the great triumph has now come, they stand in line for at most an hour. Great glory of the ages, demockracy is here.")
Without any discussion of those running for office, who backs them, what their ideas are, and where they live?
I understand that a quantity of those running for election are unnamed.
Politician # 1217, photo not available, name not available, ideas not available. (We will supply all that if s/he wins?).
What a great day for bushit and what a new low for MSM skum sucking dogs.
COMMENT #46 [Permalink]
... cheryl said on 1/31/2005 @ 8:34 am PT...
COMMENT #47 [Permalink]
... Paul said on 1/31/2005 @ 8:39 am PT...
The sad part about all of you communists, socialists, leftists, liberal Democrats, New Agers, earth worshippers, conspiracy theorists, and dopesmokers, is that none of you ever see anything positive or have anything positive to say.
Anyone can be negative. Negativity does not sell. Books about positiveness make millions.
> One election does not a democracy make
What was the most important election in American history? The first one!
What will be the most important election in Iraqi history? The first one! This one and the next two this year are and will be huge.
I thought you leftists wanted democracy?
You are all phony and a bunch of negative unhappy bitchers!
COMMENT #48 [Permalink]
... cheryl said on 1/31/2005 @ 8:49 am PT...
If you read any of these posts you would see that *democracy* didn't have much to do with the Iraqi vote and GETTING RID OF THE OCCUPIERS did.
We're negative?? How quickly you people forget. The reason that you went to Iraq was to get rid of the WMD's remember? And then it was to get rid of Saddam! Only then did it become about democracy.
Sheesh! What a hypocrite!
in #48, Paul wrote:
"What was the most important election in American history? The first one!"
Unfortunately for you (and everyone else), Paul, many (of the more informed) people would say "the last one" ...
not "last" as in "most recent"
but "last" as in "final"
We do want democracy, Paul.
We want it here!
Democracy begins at home.
So does Tyranny.
The most important elections were the ones that were not criminally violated and which matched the science of the exit polls. That rules out the last two.
One dork to another:
First Dork: "What is an election?"
Second Dork: "... uh dunno what?"
First Dork: "Standing in line between barbed wire."
Second Dork: "Doin what?"
First Dork: "puttin paper in a box?"
Second Dork: "wha for?"
First Dork: "the unnamed unmentioned good guys."
Second Dork: "ooh ... who counts em an stuff? ..."
First Dork: "doesn't matter, its the first election"
Second Dork: "ooh ... its like standing in line, sleeping in the car, to get gas for the car ..."
First Dork: "yup, cept its easier than gettin gas cause ya don't have to sleep in the car waitin in line"
Second Dork: "wish we could vote for gas ..."
COMMENT #51 [Permalink]
... cheryl said on 1/31/2005 @ 11:20 am PT...
COMMENT #52 [Permalink]
... KestrelBrighteyes said on 1/31/2005 @ 11:40 am PT...
Paul - Bless your heart.
COMMENT #53 [Permalink]
... NewYorker said on 1/31/2005 @ 12:27 pm PT...
That is the Declaration of Independence before Thomas Jefferson wrote a clean version.
COMMENT #54 [Permalink]
... Teresa said on 1/31/2005 @ 12:33 pm PT...
I AM ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLY SICK OF FRAUDULENT ELECTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SICK OF THE SCAMS! SICK OF THE LIES! SICK OF THE PHONY MEDIA BULLSHIT! SICK OF THE PERVERTED POWER MAD BULLY-JUICED SADIST TYRANTS! SICK OF THE MASSES BLINDLY COMPLYING!
GOD DAMMIT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
COMMENT #55 [Permalink]
... Cuthbert Calculus said on 1/31/2005 @ 1:29 pm PT...
I've been following the Brad Blog since the US election (as a Canadian spectator - for the life of me I couldn't understand the results and that was what first drew me into the blogosphere). I've never contributed before now, but after reading this thread I feel I have to. I was (and remain) as firmly opposed to the invasion of Iraq as any of you, but I think sometimes we get carried away with criticism. No matter what you think of George W. Bush (and I don't think much of him), and no matter what you think of how we got to this point (I don't think much of that either), if you're an honest advocate of democracy then the fact that 7 or 8 million Iraqis braved a poisonous atmosphere to go to the polls has to be viewed as good news.
I think some of us might be afraid to recognise that, because it produces an extremely uncomfortable feeling that we might in some way be endorsing everything that we've been fighting against, but in fact the only credit I'm giving the Dubya administration here is for the fact that holding elections at a bad time is better than never holding elections at all. That's not to say that the end justifies the means, and it's not to say that the story is over, by any stretch of the imagination.
To my mind, rather than criticizing the election itself, we should be criticizing the claim that the election represents a monumental turning point in Iraq's history. After all, the real power of democracy is not the power to install a government which represents the people - that can be done in many ways - but the power to REMOVE a government which no longer does so (that might be relevant closer to home as well, I suppose?). Iraqi democracy won't have passed its first test until we see that happen, and that day is still a long way off.
Of course, that day will also be a test for the US. If Iraq elects a government whose policies are unpopular with the US government, will the US government acknowledge the will of the Iraqi people? Unfortunately, I think we know the answer, but 7 or 8 million Iraqis let us know yesterday that they have hope.
This is turning into a long essay, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that as much as it shocks me to say this, I'd have to agree with Paul today - we should be able to recognize positives when we see positives (but the first election is NOT the most important one ). This WAS a good day for Iraq, overall... just not the overwhelming success that it's being painted as. I usually just roll my eyes when I see Paul's comments, like the rest of you, so I guess I needed the essay to separate myself from him!
COMMENT #56 [Permalink]
... Robert Lockwood Mills said on 1/31/2005 @ 4:27 pm PT...
For Paul...The difference between our own "first election" and Iraq's "first election" is that ours, in 1788, was arranged and ordered BY US.
Iraq's first election was also arranged and ordered BY US. That's a difference, not a commonality. Liberty means the power to guide one's own destiny. We did that in 1788. Iraq isn't doing that in 2005.
COMMENT #57 [Permalink]
... cheryl said on 1/31/2005 @ 4:39 pm PT...
As a fellow Canadian let me welcome you. But a warning, be careful who you agree with; some trollers here have a real history.
No one here is anything but an honest advocate of democracy. Of *real* democracy. The Iraqis who braved the atmosphere to vote are in fact true heroes. They have hope that these elections will end the occupation and destruction of their country. However, this *democracy* is a sham, as you will know if you have been reading the posts here. Reading what we have read and learning what we have learned says to us that this election is but another manipulation by Bush and Co. which has absolutely nothing to do with the reason for being there. There are no uncomfortable feelings that we are somehow endorsing BushCo if we view the elections as positive.
I don't believe that holding elections at a bad time are better than no elections at all. The *people* will only experience better times if and when the thugs leave their country. Did you notice that not one of the parties gave any timelines for kicking the Americans out? What will change?
You say that we should not be criticizing the election, but rather the claim. I disagree. We should be criticizing both. In order to have free and fair elections EVERY eligible voter that chooses to has to vote. They can't be intimidated by violence or soldiers at their door. They need to be able to make informed decisions based on knowledge of the candidates and their policies. They need to vote because they want to..not because they are forced to. There can be no blackmail (such as the withholding of food rations). All polling stations must be open for the duration of the election. There must be accountability to ensure that voters only vote once. And so on, and so on.
This is getting to be an essay for me too. I am a true believer in democracy and do my part across the country in every single election campaign that I can. I view the Iraqis as a brave and hopeful people. And it may very well be a teeny, tiny baby step. But that does not change the fact that *forced* democracy is in fact no democracy at all.
COMMENT #58 [Permalink]
... NewYorker said on 1/31/2005 @ 4:54 pm PT...
Some Just Voted for Food
BAGHDAD, Jan 31 (IPS) - Voting in Baghdad was linked with receipt of food rations, several voters said after the Sunday poll.
Many Iraqis said Monday that their names were marked on a list provided by the government agency that provides monthly food rations before they were allowed to vote.
”I went to the voting centre and gave my name and district where I lived to a man,” said Wassif Hamsa, a 32-year-old journalist who lives in the predominantly Shia area Janila in Baghdad. ”This man then sent me to the person who distributed my monthly food ration.”
Read more: http://www.ipsnews.net/a...interna.asp?idnews=27256
COMMENT #59 [Permalink]
... Teresa said on 1/31/2005 @ 5:15 pm PT...
This was not the first election in Iraq. In fact, they have been voting all along. This election was no more fair than the last time they vote under Saddam Hussein.
There is nothing positive about this whatsoever. Quite the opposite. It is a perpetuation of the false claim of democracy. And those who don't recognize this are in danger of losing their own, if they have one.
COMMENT #60 [Permalink]
... pushcat said on 1/31/2005 @ 5:23 pm PT...
#57 I agree Cheryl. How can this election in Iraq be called an election when most Iraqi's didn't even know who they would be voting for, or what their platform was before the election.
COMMENT #61 [Permalink]
... Teresa said on 1/31/2005 @ 6:36 pm PT...
It's pitiful. These people have no experience with democratic government. The word "democracy" is being dangled in front of them while these monsters watch them leap, and continue their domination. It's all a huge game.
COMMENT #62 [Permalink]
... KestrelBrighteyes said on 1/31/2005 @ 6:37 pm PT...
Perhaps those who don't understand why many view this election with healthy scepticism should read the following:
"United States officials were surprised and heartened today at the size of turnout in South Vietnam's presidential election despite a Vietcong terrorist campaign to disrupt the voting. According to reports from Saigon, 83 percent of the 5.85 million registered voters cast their ballots yesterday. Many of them risked reprisals threatened by the Vietcong. A successful election has long been seen as the keystone in President Johnson's policy of encouraging the growth of constitutional processes in South Vietnam."
- Peter Grose, in a page 2 New York Times article titled, 'U.S. Encouraged by Vietnam Vote,' September 4, 1967.
Now fast-forward to 2005:
You also need to make yourself very familiar with PNAC: PNAC Info
For the official government version: Project For A New American Century
What is happening now was planned many years ago ago. The invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with WMD, and this election had nothing to do with bringing democracy for the Iraqis.
COMMENT #63 [Permalink]
... Teresa said on 1/31/2005 @ 7:07 pm PT...
You are so right, Kes....#62. We must be fully aware.
I just heard an interview with Scott ritter, marine, Repuplican, and former UN weapons inspector:
" the intention of the PNAC is to destroy Iraq. The election is an attempt to start a full civil war, especially among rival Shiite factions. Permanent military control by the US will occur, and the destruction of Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia is to follow."
All of our money, our futures, and our life force will be sucked out of us if we don't stop them.
COMMENT #64 [Permalink]
... horkus said on 1/31/2005 @ 7:18 pm PT...
Okay Paul, please answer my question. And don't run and hide. Why did we attack Iraq where people lived more freely than the people of Saudi Arabia ever will? Answer- Because Bush is a big fat hypocrite. There are people in Saudi Arabia who cry for freedom. Where are the Bushies when the people of Saudi Arabia need them? Wait, that's right Saudi Arabia is our "ally". They loved us so much, they flew planes into our buildings.
Anyways, I don't expect you to answer back, Paul. It's all about Iraq with you Bush lovers, isn't it?
And when Bush pushes for another war in Iran, I'm sure you'll do the Patriotic thing and enlist.
COMMENT #65 [Permalink]
... Peggy said on 1/31/2005 @ 7:53 pm PT...
Hi, Cuthbert #55 - Unfortunately, there is nothing "good" about "fraudulent" elections. This "election" is a necessary step for Bush and his gang to declare himself and America "welcome". It is a forced step taken by the Iraqi people towards ridding themselves of Americans from their soil. When the newly "elected" Iraqi government refuses to get Americans off their soil, the the real "election" or "revolution" will begin. I'm rooting for the Iraqis. I'm also rooting for the honest people in America who are AGAINST fraudulent elections, in particular the last two of 2000 and 2004, which took place on their own soil. These good Americans are the ones we all are depending on to get this out-of-control Bush government back in control of the American people. God Please Save America and God Please Save Iraq.
COMMENT #66 [Permalink]
... Paul said on 2/1/2005 @ 7:35 am PT...
> Okay Paul, please answer my question
Yes, Iran is next, perhaps Saudi one day, Syria, etc. By patient, it will be a long war. Don't forgot this - Reagan said "Evil empire" and "Tear down this wall" and the left went nuts. Reagan was right. Don't forget this - Bush said "Axis of evil" and the left went nuts. Bush will also be right. You leftists should have at least expected Iraq, Iran, and North Korea to be in the mix.
You guys are devoid of reality and history!
And what I mean by history is this - some of the same things said about America in WWII are being said about America today - all by those who hate war at any cost. Bush has been called the "most hated president in US history." Well, you don't know history because Lincoln was called the "most hated president in US history" by the South. What do we think of Lincoln today? Bush will be seen as the same one day.
Did you notice that the French and Germans congratulated Bush? It was a great day for Iraq - the Iraqi's even said so and flashed their marked finger.
It was a bad day for leftists.
COMMENT #67 [Permalink]
... cheryl said on 2/1/2005 @ 7:35 am PT...
Here is a much more articulate person describing what I was attempting to say when I responded to Cuthbert.
COMMENT #68 [Permalink]
... cheryl said on 2/1/2005 @ 8:30 am PT...
From a retired engineer in Baghdad:
COMMENT #69 [Permalink]
... KestrelBrighteyes said on 2/1/2005 @ 9:18 am PT...
Paul - re #66
Comparing Bush with Lincoln is like comparing Kenneth Blackwell with Sojourner Truth.
A better analogy would be Bush and Nixon. And yes, I still meet people now and then who would argue what a great President Nixon was (one I remember very well, a young girl who was in one of my classes back in the 80's, who stated that the greatest of Richard Nixon's accomplishments was getting the US out of VietNam - can you say, hasn't got a f**king clue??) So it will be with George W. Bush.
There will always be those who, by necessity, believe in the image projected to fool the masses. It's not that they don't WANT to see what is really happening, it's that, because of cognitive dissonance, they really CAN'T absorb new facts.
And then, there are those of us who are not only paying attention to the man behind the curtain, but are trying to tear the curtain down.
I really hope you'll do further research. The fact that you bothered to post here at all, especially given that you began your argument by dismissing those who disagree with you by calling them names instead of just addressing the issue, means that you have some doubts - otherwise, you'd just ignore us.
COMMENT #70 [Permalink]
... Paul said on 2/1/2005 @ 10:34 am PT...
> you began your argument by dismissing those who disagree with you by calling them names instead of just addressing the issue, means that you have some doubts - otherwise, you'd just ignore us.
You are what you are!
If it looks like a leftist, if it sounds like a leftist, it is a leftist!
COMMENT #71 [Permalink]
... KestrelBrighteyes said on 2/1/2005 @ 1:50 pm PT...
Paul - Bless your heart.
COMMENT #72 [Permalink]
... John F said on 2/1/2005 @ 2:28 pm PT...
I wonder if Democracy does take hold how will the people of Iraq remember the US occupation. Will they hate us? Or maybe once we leave could Iraq evolve into something unimagined. To be honest with all of you I am more worried about America’s future then Iraq's.
Sorry to Zell Miller I know he hates to hear the US referred to as an occupation force.
COMMENT #73 [Permalink]
... Teresa said on 2/1/2005 @ 2:49 pm PT...
John F #72.
That's just it. Iraq is the distraction while they destroy our democracy.
COMMENT #74 [Permalink]
... John F said on 2/1/2005 @ 3:34 pm PT...
Teresa #73 That's just it. Iraq is the distraction while they destroy our democracy.
I wish the invasion of Iraq were a distraction and democracy was all they wanted to destroy. These people are religious nuts who believe the invasion of Iraq was predicted in the Book of Revelations. A war with Islam in the Middle East is not something to be feared but welcomed to these nuts. The zealots in this administration or true believers as they like to be called embrace the rapture or Armageddon. They believe they will be lifted out of their clothes and transported to Heaven, where, seated next to the right hand of God, they will watch their political and religious opponents suffer plagues of boils, sores, locusts and frogs during the several years of tribulation that follow. I think they mean we of the Brad Blog.
COMMENT #75 [Permalink]
... horkus said on 2/1/2005 @ 6:22 pm PT...
Paul, you're dreaming about Saudi Arabia. When the Saudi Royals ask Bush to jump, Bush asks how high. As long as the Saudi Royals are in power, your reality of a freely elected government in Saudi Arabia is a pipe dream. House of Bush, House of Saud.
For Paul and others who have not a clue that an election can only be defined and characterized by the context it is in, think about this:
An election is composed of three parts:
1) the candidates and the issues; coupled with dialogue and debate that connects the issues in a problem/solution linkage.
The candidates must also show their own part in the linkage. This means the ability to identify the problems, articulate solutions, and discuss the nexus between the problems and solutions and their own contribution. This should also have some discussion of why they are better than their opponents at bringing about the solution.
2) the voting
3) the handling of the votes; this requires independent and unbiased observers thru all stages and a certification of the results; coupled with a valid comparison to the exit poll data.
What the ignorant have been doing is focusing on item number two, which is the very least thing.
Even Sadaam Husein had elections and he gleefully extolled the virtues of winning a compelling majority.
For Paul to come online and start with a slur of expletives, then extol the virtues of the "election", not having a clue about #1 or #3, shows his utter lack of standing to even talk about this as an election. It is quite pathetic.
What is "left" Paul is your reason and comprehension of what is going on in Iraq ... it was left at home or at the office. You did not bring it here.
What you brought is the residue of an unused mind and dumped it here where, yes, it does glow in the dark. But it is your dark it glows in and the part that is glowing is your own toxins of unabashed bias.
Here, courtesy of BBC, is a preliminary look at the 'results' of the 'election'. In a nutshell, according to the story, about 10% of the votes have been counted and Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani's list is leading by a 3:1 margin over the second-place list of interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi.
COMMENT #78 [Permalink]
... andrew harkassian said on 2/5/2005 @ 3:08 pm PT...
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· Baghdad Burning
· Brilliant at Breakfast
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· Dan Froomkin
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