This morning’s explosive item at the new Huffington Post by NBC/HBO’s Jim Lampley stating that the November Election was the “biggest crime in the history of the nation” has apparently touched a nerve.
The Sports Announcer cum Political Commentator’s deftly on-target blog item (covered by BRAD BLOG earlier today) — in which he aptly suggested that what happened last November was bigger than Watergate — was met with a limp-wristed rejoinder from Rightwinger Byron York also at the Post. York attacked Lampley’s sports book metaphor as weak by using a silly comparison to the oddsmakers’ take on last weekend’s Kentucky Derby.
York then went on to attempt a futher rebuttal to Lampley with powerful statements such as…
Good stuff. Very persuasive. I don’t know much about York other than he writes for National Review and appears on Fox News all the time, but there is ample evidence that he is also a small gray-haired poodle — for one thing, speaking from memory, I believe that I remember seeing him take a leak at a fire hydrant near our house. One time. Somewhere.
As to the Kentucky Derby silliness, Lampley himself pushed back with another post later in the day to embarrass York on that point, prove that he’s no featherweight on this Election 2004 business and to demonstrate clearly that York is in way over his head on this matter.
We hope at least that Lampley tossed York a nice chew toy and gave him a warm pat on the head when he was done.
Not one to miss out on a good Election Irregularity Brouhaha wherever it may rear its ugly head, Celebrity Congressman John Conyers’ showed up ringside at Huffington Post today as well to offer his well-experienced two-cents on today’s main event!
We welcome this new spat and apologize for the bad boxing metaphors! But if that’s what it takes to get folks to take notice, especially during May Sweeps, then we’re happy to ring the bell for ROUND 3!
On a related note, we are attempting to reach Lampley to discuss it all on this weekend’s BRAD SHOW presuming we make it back to the Left Coast in time, and can find a homebase broadcast studio! If Lampley himself reads this item before we are able to track him down, please let it be known he may contact us at our Email Address to discuss it!
We’d also be keenly interested in discussing another thought or two with him concerning this statement in his latest answer to York…
The BRAD BLOG has been hot on the trail and committed to that very “investigative process” he speaks of since the early morning hours of November 3rd. We’d like very much to discuss an idea or two with Lampley if he is able to contact us. Or vice versa.
And finally…while we’ve given so much coverage (and free links) to the well-funded start-up Huffington Post today…We’ll add that this well-underfunded blog does not appear on her Blogroll! But certainly should! (As should RAW STORY for that matter who has similarly been a key player in that same “investigative process” for months!) Please feel free to let Arianna know via the only address we’ve so far been able to find to contact her: Scoop@HuffingtonPost.com.
This is a difficult story to follow blow-by-blow as we’re currently on the road for 10 or so hours per day for the next few as we head back Westward across the fruited plains…So our thanks to those readers who have sent us links to help follow the day’s action as we’re otherwise putting pedal to metal!
UPDATE 5/11/05: Robert A. George pours some fuel on the “Lampley-York Smackdown”, though — unsurprisingly, by now — takes shots at the good guys tactics/character as opposed to his argument. And Arianna features the entire brouhaha from her front page teaser column. Keep making noise…
UPDATE AGAIN 5/11/05: This morning, York tries to get out of the corner he’s backed himself into by playing the already long-discredited “Even the Exit Pollsters admit they were wrong” card. Apparently, he hasn’t been told that the Exit Pollsters own report has been entirely rebuked and debunked some time ago [PDF]. Get with it, York! You’re losing big time on points as ROUND 3 begins, you’re gonna need to punch harder than that!
I LOVE IT!!!
"…Karl Rove isn’t capable of conceiving and executing such a grandiose crime? Wake up. They did it…"
Not everybody in the media is half-asleep. This fellow deserves thousands, MILLIONS, of e-mails of support.
After reading his article, I’m feeling more hope that Rove-and-company will not succeed in keeping this buried under the sands of time.
As far as the Biggest Crime in History of the Nation’!", it’s a tie – the 2000 election rates with it, though the fraud wasn’t as widespread. Same results – the loser sitting in the White House.
I posted a request that BradBlog be linked at Huffingtonn’s site.
Keep pushing the snowball Brad ,safe journey
I sent an email to Huffington suggesting she add Rawstory and Bradblog to the Blog Roll. In a separate email I asked why she buried the original post by Jim Lampley and didn’t make it a featured post.
Sent my letter to Ariana asking for BradBlog to be linked on her website along with Raw Story. I also complimented her for publishing some information about the election fraud that took place in 2004.
I liked Lampley’s article and would send him a congratulatory letter if I had his email address. Apparently Brad doesn’t have it since he’s inviting Lampley to be on his show this weekend using BradBlog. If you get it Brad, please post it so I can thank him for his articles.
Slowly, step by step we gotta get the word out there by finding places to run stories like this. It’s frustrating that it seems to take so long to see any progress on this, but I guess we have to be thankful for every little step along the way.
I know that John Conyers has been courageously making a lot of noise out there about the election fraud that took place in 2004, but does anyone know if there’s any “official” inquiry that’s taking place? I watched the film that Congressman Conyers sent to every member of the Senate and it’s right there for anyone to see the horrific corruption that took place ala Kenneth Blackwell and company. And Mr. Conyers 102 page report “Preserving Democracy: What Went Wrong in Ohio” lists the litany of crimes that took place in Ohio. It seems that a lot of well intentioned people (especially Brad) are doing all they can to do something about the fraud, but what’s happening on an official level to bring these criminals to justice?
Byron York obviously needs reminding of the CNN exit polls..
… exit polls where figures were changed and didn’t correlate to other data presented on the same page. (Covered at DU)
This example showed a blatant mismatch in figures based on gender, the contradiction there was caused because the CNN data wasn’t real data (if it was, it would have correlated automatically!!) – Unfortunately it was a human-controlled flaw in a corporate controlled company.
BESIDES the above, we have had the shy R theory… and then rightfully smashed that to bits for the bullshit it was.
So now it’s oversampling of women voters? – Has anyone looked into that??
And if we disprove that as a factor… what’s the next excuse??
Oh My God !!! Jim Lampley Rules!!!
In the fight game (and other sports broadcasting as well), Lampley has never shied away from hammering home criticism on anyone who earned it –
No doubt this guy knows a fixed fight when he sees one!! It’s so encouraging to see higher profile media peeps of ANY stripe standing up and speaking plainly about the OBVIOUS fix – evidenced by exit polls all favoring Kerry and yet ALL "actual" tabulations rigged to hand King George the Lying-Hearted the presidency –
And just DRILLING the mainstream media over it to boot!! Bee-ee-aa-yootiful!
The answer, Jeff, is NOTHING IS HAPPENING ON AN OFFICIAL LEVEL.
This is according to precedent, of course. Once a president (or any official elected under a cloud) is inaugurated, the game is over to the legislators. They might talk about "election reform" or "voter fraud" (sic), but only vis a vis future elections. The past one becomes history.
Except that public opinion counts, too. And that’s where we come in. We have three huge hurdles to get over in order to expose the 2004 election as a highway robbery, which it unquestionably was, and render George W. Bush unfit and unable to govern.
1) American tradition favors "getting over it and moving on." Being a "sore loser" is thought of by many otherwise sane people as worse than fixing an election. A perfect example is Don Wycliff at the Chicago Tribune, who on the one hand invokes Richard Nixon as a model of good sportsmanship for not contesting the 1960 election, yet Wycliff at the same time defends the election outcome itself.
2) The mainstream media don’t want to touch the story. Jim Lampley is a glaring exception, and praise God for his bravery. Massive election fraud and an illegitimate president, if known to a majority of Americans, would cause a stock market collapse and a deep recession, maybe a depression. If the mainstream media were a collection of independent newspapers and TV networks, they could compete for the story, as Hearst and Pulitzer once competed for the Spanish-American War story. But the big papers and TV networks are part of corporate oligarchies, thus they’re scared s—less to offend advertisers and stockholders.
3) The G.O.P. believes in the principle, "The end justifies the means." Keeping liberals out of power is the end, election fraud has become the means. A neo-con can’t be persuaded that election fraud is wrong, because a neo-con thinks liberals are even worse than crookedness. So, the closer we get to proving that George W. Bush is an illegitimate president, the more artillery fire we can expect to hear.
The only answer is to keep trying. As Jim Lampley and others have said, Watergate took a long time to come out, too. Right now I’d say we’re about where we were in early 1974 in terms of exposure. And Nixon resigned in August, 1974. Chin up, Jeff.
Thank you Mr. Lockwood, for taking the time to respond to my question. And I guess I do need a bit of cheering up.
It’s frustrating to watch Linda Byrket’s film (that Conyers distributed to every Senate member) and read “Preserving Democracy: What Went Wrong in Ohio” where the evidence is there in black and white, yet see nothing happening in terms of real reform or prosecution.
I understand that the only reason I can’t really see what’s happening is because our sight lines are so obstructed with the lock down of the MSM. Thank God for people like Brad who are taking on personal responsibility to report on any movement he sees. But this morning I just feel the frustration of seeing very little in terms of real progress towards bringing these criminals to justice, and watching the goofball commission for election reform led by Dr. Pastor, who will most likely white wash the entire affair.
I guess I’d like to see us becoming more organized and effective, and to see some real progress. But I do appreciate your post, and I realize that I need to have some patience. But not too much patience because 2006 is coming fast and furious, and I keep reading that Chicago (and other places) are still purchasing Diebold election equipment. The incidents of obstruction that slow down Bev Harris in her public inquiries show that these bastards are pretty organized and resolute in their corruption. It would give me great hope to see someone held accountable for their acts, especially Kenneth Blackwell who flagrantly thumbs his nose at any attempt towards justice.
But thanks again for your post.
Jeff J.
This is wonderful blogging Brad!
The snowball is small now but I am 100% certain it will become a massive avalanche very soon.
I can’t wait to see criminals such as Karl Rove led away in handcuffs! I know with people like you and Huffington, this dream will become a reality in short order!
MrBlueSky –
Love the Snowball/Avalanche image!!
Blow Me,
True. But I prefer the vision of Rove being arrested for treason better!
Brad, don’t apologize for using boxing metaphors in re the election. There’s a real symbiosis between Jim Lampley’s career as a prize fight broadcaster and his commentary on the election.
Prize fights have been fixed almost as long as elections have been. Jack Johnson took a snooze in the sun in Havana against Jess Willard. Willard lost his title to Jack Dempsey, who was revealed later to have had cement inside his gloves. Jack Sharkey was "knocked out" by Primo Carnera, who couldn’t punch his way through wet tissue paper; in fact, all of Carnera’s victims were set-ups, as detailed in a movie about his life (can’t remember the title). Jake LaMotta admitted taking a dive in a fight against a guy named Pete Fox. And most of us remember Sonny Liston collapsing from a phantom punch from Muhammad Ali in Lewiston, Maine.
The list of fixed fights is endless. There really isn’t any need to argue the point about the fight business being crooked. I cited the TV fight between Spinks and Davis, which I believe was on ABC-TV. Jim Lampley was with ABC then, although he has moved on; don’t know if he’d say so out loud, but I’m sure his skepticism about the election derives from his years of experience in the fight business.
The neo-cons who rigged the 2000 and 2004 elections are of a type with Don King, and I’m sure Jim Lampley understands this. To put it in terms the public might relate to…anyone who thinks the last two elections were honest should write to Don King and ask, "Did you teach Karl Rove everything he knows?"
I’d also like to offer my support and gratitude to Mr. Lampley for his remarks. THANK YOU!!!!
I have a question…what ever happened to Katherine Harris, the lady that fixed the gore/bush florida election when she was running the voting company…. and was there any connection between her, tom feeney, or clint curtis either directly or indirectly….
Has she been rewarded financially?
Has she been rewarded with a better job or position?
I think in regards to the neo-cons…the question is not how do you argue or fight with them, but how do you overcome ignorance?
Ignorance whether towards blacks, jews, homosexuals, women, mentally ill people, etc…
is all difficult to overcome…they key to overcoming ignorance is to label it ignorance…
I think that if we can establish a rational that exposes the republicans for what they are- ignorant (don’t forget people can be ignorant to facts, information, and truth), then we could chip away the base of the republican party- GOOD christian people. Not many people would side with ignorance…
Any case just a thought..
Later Charlie
York’s Yuk
I posted an article (link here) showing that in the recent British election the press was quoting the exit poll data as if it was, as always, a reliable authority.
And as is usual for science of this type, the exit polls were "spot on" as the brits say.
I mean, after all this exit poll science has been reliable everywhere except during Bu$hit "elections".
Go figure Mr. Yuk.
Exactly right. Exit polls were considered reliable when we sent Colin Powell to Ukraine to notify its leaders that their "fraudulent election" would harm U.S/Ukraine relations unless it was fixed. But exit polls were flawed when Powell’s boss, George W. Bush, ran an unprecendented (literally) 5-1/2 percentage points behind them in the tabulated vote.
That any intelligent, right-thinking person could stare straight ahead at the facts surrounding the 2004 election and not know it was crooked is beyond rational comprehension.
FYI: Chicago Tribune’s Phil Rosenthal has commented on this. It’s the only mention in MSM as far as I know to this point.
Poorly worded…Bush’s exit poll numbers were in fact 5-1/2% behind the tabulated vote in his name.
Sometimes anger causes me to write hastily. Sorry.
"These aren’t the droids you’re looking for"
The exit polls showed Kerry winning Virginia…. VIRGINIA!!!!! Are you kidding me? Virginia? If that ALONE doesn’t show a big problem, nothing does.
Second, everyone here read this:
http://www.exit-poll.net/electi...nJan192005.pdf
That link is an apology/explanation for the skewed exit polls… written by THE HEAD POLLSTER. What are you suggesting, that Bush minions got to him, threatened him and now he’s singing a new song? Oh, puhleaze. You don’t have to like Bush to know this is BS.
I think it’s about time you got permalinked at Eshaton as well. How about everyone writing atrios@comcast.net and asking Atrios to do the right thing and link to one of the most important blogs on the Internet.
Great post by Mr. Lampley and Great post by Brad. I think some of the early Woodard and Bernstein Watergate articles were buried in the back pages of the WaPo and look where that went. Maybe a "back page" post by Lampley can be a catalyst for some real MSM coverage of the "Biggest Crime in the History of the Nation". I’ll keep hoping!
By the way, speaking from memory, I’m pretty sure I saw York take that leak at a fire hydrant too. That’s two of us, so it must be true.
Dear Brad – get home safely. We’ll do our best to promote you!
Sorry for the repost of this – But it seems more appropriate in this string (and that’s where I THOUGHT I was putting it.)
I would like your thoughts on a question that has been troubling me:
Why, in the face of such a large body of evidence indicating that Bush cronies may have stolen the election, is the MSM so unwilling to touch this story, when the same MSM, CBS and all, was so willing and eager to run the Bush Phony National Guard Memo story? CBS certainly had ample indications before they released the story that the memo was faked, yet they entirely ignored them. Why such lax standards for evidence then and such ridiculously strict standards now?
Is it just that the entertainment value of political news is lower once the election is "decided"? Or is the media more afraid of the neo-cons now that they have flexed their muscle in the 2004 election? Or is the MSM afraid that, while the public might be able to accept that our war-mongering President may have dodged his military duty, they will never be able accept the idea of a stolen election (even though the MSM is happy to lecture bloggers on how the Nixon/Kennedy election was stolen)? Or was the Dan Rather Fiasco a bizarre aberration? Or was Rather only able to run with the story because Rove wanted him to run with it (perhaps having even planted it)?
In my paranoid heart, I worry that the "top-ranking Democrats" have struck some kind of deal with the Republicans. So now neither side really wants this story out (or any of the other long string of truly shocking stories). But what would that deal be?
Tim #24:
The "phony" National Guard memo I think is telling. First, while the memo itself may have been faked, from all I can tell it was basically correct. Nevertheless, Dan Rather and Mary Mapes both effectively lost their jobs over this. If you can get Dan Rather to quit you can do anything. I think its a case of the MSM being scared s@#!less by the neocons. Although it might be that they are in collusion with them instead.
Truth: I really don’t know what happened to Mary Mapes. I just googled her name and came up with nothing other than hate stories about what she did to poor Mr Bush.
I am glad that 2004 Presidential elections has been brought back. Actually the problem is with the Democrats, the only viable opposition to the Republicans. They never fought back to expose the election fraud. I don’t know why! Lack of guts? International reputation of the nation? Failed Party? Or even worse the election was fixed!!
Switch the results. Had the exit polls to final result anamoly happened in reverse to the Republicans………Guaranteed riots and civil disobedience!!!
black is white, white is black, the people controlling the media can do anything they want and 98 percent of americans dont know shit, 1 percent are repubs, and the rest are us. Healthy forest iniative-Bullshit, War in Iraq- lie. jeff Gannon-lie, social security reform- diversion. bankruptcy laws- bullshit. tax breaks bullshit. Its time to revolt anyone got any balls….. che
Bando Bling,
Good point! A Vietnam vet once gave me the advice:
"Don’t blame the fox too much if you’ve left the henhouse unguarded."
And for the past 5 years, the Democrats have definitely left the henhouse unguarded. Of course the Republicans are going to make an evil power grab if no one is there to stop them.
And Che – I think most people on this blog (especially Brad) have those "balls."
Che-
Being 23 most of my historical context is history based or study based. I find it more than accurate that you have suggested revolt, because thats exactly what has happened time and time again to remove cronies, sometimes for the in thename of people, sometimes just with another cronie. But must a revolt always be violent? Martin Luther King was the master at non-violent revolt…but in an entirely different context than what we are facing now. Is revolt even possible in this century? I mean wouldn’t you just be labled an anarchist, arrested, and thrown in jail? No, I doubt that revolt will solve our problems although historically it seems the only option. We need to expose truth, rip apart propraganda, keep connecting dots, preach tolerance, notice ignorance, get more people to the blogs and away from the MSM, and figure some way to reach all these people threw one source.
How about this idea Brad. Why not create an Internet news station, with video and media? Like a CBS or a NBC but via your computer. Online news network….I am sure that could be accomplished, a good chunk of it I could do….
Or why not aganize them somehow without fear of being arrested…because a whole bunch of democrats being arrested for making a point would surely get somebody’s attention right???
Remember how John Kerry aganized Richard Nixon with his anti-vietnam protests…endlessly…
Are we doing enough of that?
Who know’s… Liked the thought though che.
Later Charlie
The Days of Decision are coming.
We are frogs begin slow-cooked, and by the time we realize the water is boiling, we won’t have the strength to jump out of the pot. Perhaps we already don’t.
Charlie L
Portland, Oregon
CLL2001@Gmail.com
Republicans lie and innocent people die.
Republicans steal and give to their rich friends, leaving just an IOU for our kids to pay off.
Republicans cheat and think they are "moral."
We must flush away all Republicans in ’06 and ’08.
Charles #17
Katherine Harris’ punishment for committing vote fraud
Brad, I don’t know if anyone has posted this yet, but your blog is is now listed at the Huffington Post in the Blog Roll. You guys who petitioned for that, can now take a bow. Cool.
CB is right to cite the exit poll’s prediction of a Virginia victory for Kerry. My favorite result: The poll also showed Kerry within 5 points of winning Mississippi.
The case for credibility of the exit poll falls apart under a state-by-state review. And with today’s revelation of fraud in Wisconsin, the case falls apart, despite what Lampley and his friends with master’s degrees think.
supersoling #32
I may have missed it, but I can’t see BradBlog on the Huffington Post Blog Roll (there’s another Brad, but he’s not the original and the best!)
York has just countered (11.05.05) Jim Lampley’s post and I reckon it’s time for Josh Mitteldorf to jump in with a rebuttal of York’s nonsense!
supersoling #32
Sorry, I can see Brad Blog on the Huffington roll now, GOOD STUFF!
supersoling #32
I too sent a letter asking where bradblog was to huffingtonpost. I also asked where rawstory and michaelmoore were too.
Sorry OT
Just seen the Headlines, Brad and friend aren’t flying home in a Cessna 150 by any chance??? 🙂
CB and Bmac are ignorant of exit poll science and facts.
Thanks all, and thanks Brad especially. Here’s what I posted on Conyer’s blog.
Thanks for your Huffington comments. More so, thanks for your tireless efforts on all fronts. I found your comments, and those of Lampley and York via BradBlog. Oh, Brad would like to get in touch with Lampley.
I was a wee bit tired after grading final exams, and accidentally sent an email to York instead of Lampley. I can’t find Lampley’s email address, but in case you or others have it, please forward these comments to Lampley (which York has now received) ;>D :
missent email———————
" Great! Huffington post…
"I found your recent comments from the Huffington etc. via BradBlog.com
"Your mention of the Watergate timeline really delighted me. Actually, I’d like to see this spelled out in more detail… and, of course, I would hope that current concerns progress in the same fashion. Wouldn’t I love to watch Cheney resign on national TV!
"From your pic, you look too young to have watched the Watergate Congressional hearings (at least with any knowledge) but I was ~ 22 at the time, and I can tell you this was the best and most riveting reality TV I’ve ever seen.
"Times have certainly changed since then, but in following various blogs via the internet, I’ve discovered that I still believe in the W/B (Woodward/Bernstein) model, albeit in altered form. Thus, your Watergate comments struck a chord with me. Oh, BTW, I still want to know who Deep Throat is. If you know, please email me with that information."
Someone asked about the whereabouts of Katherine Harris? I believe she is now a member of congress (R)Fla.
And Kenneth Blackwell is running for governer of Ohio.
Hey guys, here is a Toledo Blade article on the Ohio CoinGate scandal.
The article.
Has John Kerry won Ohio yet???
Thanks to the 6 or 7 for getting Bradblog on the Huffington blog Roll. I will pass on that info on to him.
CB(#23) and BEMAC(#33)..
http://www.inthesetimes.com/sit.../article/1970/
Besides throwing the WPE theory back in your face…
"Notably, Mitofsky and Edison unsucessfully try to explain away the fact that, according to their data, only in precincts that used old-fashioned, hand-counted paper ballots did the official count and the exit polls fall within the normal sampling margin of error."
So why did hand-counted areas turn out so accurate and the machine-counted areas ALL seem to swing towards Bush?? – Still no answers there??!
I account for it by the limp dick he was running against. I was at a rally late in the election and the crowd was rabid. Someone from the stage said "Kerry" and you’d think a touchdown had been scored. Then the senator gets there to a rousing crowd. By the time he is done rambling on about this and that the entire fucking place is asleep and yawning. This happened all over the country. You do that enough times and no shit Bush wins. You think these exit polls are accurate? What a load of shit. First of all, let’s stop comparing this to 1946, when people dressed up, went to the polls, pulled a single lever for their party and then reported that to the pollster, then went home and listened to their radio to hear who won. This was 2004 and your pollster is some dipshit temp worker who doesn’t have a day job and is making dick bucks an hour to stand around and approach people. Who does he talk to? The pretty girl with the smile and the Kerry sticker, or the mean mothefucker who voted Bush, has a scowl on his face and probably tells him to fuck straight off when he asks if he wants to be polled because the Bushies beleive the pollsters are as evil as you think Bush is. And maybe he does get the Bush guy to stop. Is he gonna say he voted for Bush? I live in a blue state and my county went 60/40 Kerry, big margin for the Bore-inator. But do you think those 40 percent were going to say they voted for Bush? Hell no? In this town, you say you leave a Bush sticker on your car and someone will kick in your bumper GUARANTEED. You think that guy is going to just walk out of the poll and announce he voted for Bush? HA HA HA.
You guys gotta get over the science of these incorrect polls. Fuck, while the two pollsters assigned to that precint ask the people the 12-20 questions AP or whoever has for them on why they voted, etc… how many people walk by unpolled. HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE EVER BEEN POLLED BY AN EXIT POLLER? I mean really, wake up.
We were amongst the "6 or 7" politely insisting that BradBlog had to be on Arianna’s blog roster.
Now… I have an OT request that I hope you all consider worthy, because it is an environmental crisis. Cats!!!
Our endangered warblers are returning; and our stubbornly ignorant neighbors are still resisting a reality that is more than adequately documented.
Please visit here and post your thoughts. This is a huge international problem (Aussies and Canadians, especially environmentally conscious ones, will agree.)
CB.. the "shy R" theory has also been debunked.
Have you got anything in your defence that we haven’t already debunked and/or exposed for the bullshit that it is??
—
The exit polls vs. machine counts didn’t match, with the machine counts giving a swing to Bush each and every time.
The exit polls and hand counts matched very closely and fell within the MOE, unlike the machine-counted comparison above.
You still haven’t explained how that occured??
—
And… why we shouldn’t be suspicious when you combine those statistics with the factor of who owns and runs the voting-machine/tabulation/etc companies??
There’s plenty of reason to suspect foul play, from their affiliations and their vested interests through to statistical anomolies and hard evidence of malpractice by election officials… there’s a lot of crap that must be resolved ASAP.
To top it off… there’s the carter/baker commission and the GOP front-group ACVR doing everything they can to screw up the real investigations required in Ohio. The amount of crap they’ve done against investigators, the revenge-attacks against Arnebeck, etc… all screams of guilt. There’s all the stonewalling, the lockdown in Ohio and more.
I’m not saying Kerry would have won, I don’t even care about Kerry… I just care that in future… all voting should be done transparently and in a voter-verifiable way, not through a group of different companies all controlled or tied to the Republicans (or any party for that matter!!).
The last elections were FAR from democratic or fair and there was a lot of fraud and intentional disenfrachisement.. mainly from Republican efforts. – Whether they’d have won without all the cheating is a different issue… most here just want to ensure that cheating cannot happen so easily again, by any party.
Well said. I’d add that we want to make sure the cheaters are caught and punished, as a deterrent for the future.
As long as election fraud (by either side) can be airily dismissed with "You lost, get over it…" it’s 100% certain that it will continue, and so-called election reform will be nothing more or less than a feeble effort to keep up with the newest hi-tech methods of cheating.
There is no way to have a banana republic without the likes of the thinking of CB and Bmac.
The trollogy. Ignorance posing as wisdom.
They planned the Iraq war (link here) well in advance of saying so. It was part of the neocon new pearl harbor strategy.
They are drunk on oil addiction even tho the PEAK OIL cat is out of the bag, and even tho that policy is intellectually bankrupt.
CB and Bmac are probably MSM. And they say these guys are liberals.
Once again the MSM misses the truth while foaming at the mouth over falsehood.
Is it really possible that kerry might have won Va? Or is that, as has been suggested, an indicator that the exit polls might actually have been off?
I wonder how CB explains away the Clint Curtis story!
Not even our friend Tom Feeny has been able to give a plausible answer other than to threaten lawsuits!
The only reason that Bush and Cheney haven’t been impeached by now is because the Republicans have taken control of the media and as such are putting the kaibosh on this important story.
The early returns from Virginia, factoring in the exit polls, indicated the state was "too close to call," not that Kerry would win it.
To conclude from this misinformation that exit polls were badly flawed is absurd. The presumption that Virginia was a slam dunk for the G.O.P. is equally absurd, and depends on a Beltway view of Virginia politics. The Virginia suburbs are Republican, but there was a huge get-out-the-vote effort in African American areas in Southern Virginia, which clearly favored the Democrats. Virginia’s governor is a Democrat.
In any event, the exit polls did not predict a Kerry victory, only that the race in Virginia was closer than expected. Even if they had called for a Kerry win, the burden of proof would still remain on those who discredit exit polls. How were they flawed, exactly? How could it be that exit polls were deadly accurate wherever paper ballots were used (such as in rural areas of Virginia), but way off where electronic voting machines were found (such as in the D.C. suburbs)?
All explanations for exit poll/tabulated vote discrepancies (shy Republicans, oversampling of women, biased polltakers) have been debunked.
Your exit poll theories are just theories. The initial exit poll data was incomplete, raw data that had not yet been adjusted for balance, had an disproportionate sample of women and was wrong. If you guys love polls so damn much, why is it that this is the only poll you’ll go by? What about all the dozens of daily, weekly, and monthly polls that showed Bush winning a handy electoral college victory? I have little doubt that a charismatic or even intelligible candidate could have beaten Bush… but in a rush to nominate the ‘safe’ candidate, the party (ie Iowa) picked a dud. It happens. Look at 1988. The country may have hated Bush, but they didn’t go out and vote for his opponent like they should have. Sorry. Remember that gigantic anti-Bush rally in NY? Did you see a single Kerry button in the bunch? Nope? Kerry couldn’t pull it home because he just couldn’t get enough people out to the polls. Stop relying on those dumb exit polls, they make you look so stupid. The entire exit poll sample for all 50 states is 70,000. Out of what, 50,000,000 votes? FUCK OFF with those numbers and face the truth: Kerry was a dud.
AGAIN, I will ask: How many of you have EVER been exit polled?
The answer: None of you.
So that ‘proves’ that exit polls do not happen!
Why are you writting about something that does not happen?
The point not in dispute is that in the 2000 election the democrat Gore won the popular vote– despite all the "stuff". Votes casted –about 100 million.
bush entered the 2004 election as a weakened candidate–lousy record, poor pooling numbers, every other catagory–job loss, economy, defecits, lies, and on and on–bush looked like a looser. The only thing he had going ‘for’ him was his lied for catastropic success War.
All the talk was ABB. And the voter turnout for 2004 was over 110 million. At a minimum a 10% increase. And bush got most of that increase???
Nonsence!
The exit polls (which do not exist?) support the fact that the democrat got the greater majority of the popular vote!
The E machines were rigged!
In other words, ‘Lets play poker CB, you get your expert we’ll get ours. We will bring the card deck’.
A simple focus on events shows that a year before the Iraq invasion (link here), while lying to the american people that he had not given up on UN processes and thus no invasion was planned, the bu$hit regime planned each and every step of the invasion with Blair and company, the building of permanent military bases in Iraq, and the Haliburton distribution of the Iraqi oil after the invasion.
There is iron-clad proof of that. The Haliburton contract was let without bid in secret many months before the invasion and was talked about and agreed to even before the signing of the contract a good six months prior to the invasion.
The election machines and their hackability were contemplated well before the elections, as Clint Curtis’ lie detector tests and affidavits show. As the Conyers 102 page report shows. As the exit poll scientific data clearly shows. As the black box voting org lawsuit shows.
The current coup d’ etat was well planned out a decade ago. There is no inability on the part of the MSM, because these things are very easy to dig up, but instead there is cooperation in the coverup. The MSM is in bed with the fraud.
Those who refuse to see it are protecting their world view … if they allowed themselves to see reality it would do serious damage to their psyche.
It would be better for them to grow up, bite the bullet, fix the problem, and then move on to a real and better world.
Mature people do it that way instead of the naked denial exhibited by the neocon heretics.
Exit polls were very accurate in paper ballot states, yet they somehow turned inaccurate in states where someone could rig electronic a voting machine and/or a tabulator to flip votes. THAT IS NOT A THEORY, THAT IS A FACT.
Exit polls were very accurate in the Florida Senate race, but inaccurate in the presidential race. That is only possible if voters lied to exit pollsters about their presidential preference, but told the truth about their Senatorial preference, which is absurd. THAT IS NOT A THEORY, THAT IS A FACT.
In ten of the eleven battleground states, there were significant discrepancies between exit polls and tabulated votes. All of these favored Bush. In the eleventh state (Wisconsin) the exit polls and tabulated votes were almost equal…by amazing coincidence, Wisconsin is the one state where Republicans have been alleging Democrat fraud.
THESE ARE NOT THEORIES, THESE ARE FACTS.
Of the hundreds of thousands of reports of vote flipping nationwide (the heaviest concentration was in Ohio and Florida), more than 95% were of votes flipped from Kerry to Bush. If these were random computer glitches instead of deliberate fraud, the law of averages would require that about an equal number of such reports would favor each candidate. THAT IS NOT A THEORY, THAT IS A MATHEMATICAL LAW THAT NO THEORY CAN REBUT.
I do have one theory to offer, though. Some people will never see the forest for the trees, even when they’re standing under a tree.
Since election day, I have been circulating key votergate stories and articles to a list of about 25 people – friends, relations, acquaintances, clients. Occasionally I will get a note asking me to "please keep me informed!" or "keep sending your emails", but mostly these dozens of forwards (about one a week) have been met with silence–yet no one has accepted my frequent offer to "unsubscribe at any time." Most people don’t want to take responsibility for the crisis we are facing–they will not seek out this heartbreaking, infuriating, frightening information. But email by email (and I know a proportion don’t even get read) they are kept current with the real news, they know they are not alone in knowing the truth, and they are aware of a growing body of evidence and opinion exposing the illegality of this administration. It is my little action to build the political will required for justice to be served. My little iceball. Thank you Brad, and Winter Patriot, and Jamie, and all the community here for making the little action I do possible. Let the prosecutions begin!
I have another theory: If ‘they’ cannot win on facts ‘they’ try fancy footwork.
To the tune of ‘ranting and raving’.
P.S. –RLM
have you not hit upon the reason ‘they’ love to Clear-Cut?
Not sure what Clear-Cut means, Cole. But it does seem to me that the trolls on bradblog, with one or two exceptions, aren’t willing to engage us on specific facts, instead they hurl unsubstantiated claims around as if they were facts.
It’s very much like what the Bush administration itself does, without apology. I’ve forgotten who said it (it wasn’t Karl Rove), but one of the neo-cons boasted, "We create our own reality." It’s meant as a put-down of "old liberal politics," but it really means, "We do whatever we want, and we don’t have to defend our actions." Thus, we shouldn’t expect these types to discuss issues intelligently on a blog. They either aren’t bright enough to do so, or choose not to use their intellect in debate.
I prefer to ignore them, but once in a while I react.
CB
Why don’t you take your ignorant, uneducated, closed minded, arrogant ass back to CNN or FOX and find some fresh bullshit to attempt to spew out at us.
I believe Mr. Mills has offered enough FACT on the exit polls to at least raise beyond some reason of doubt suspicion that the election was stolen.
But if that is not enough….read everything else besides the exit polling information….the 102 House Judiciary Report on Ohio (if you know how to read check that out), or the Clint Curtis testimonies, or the Sibel Edmonds Story, orUS Count Votes analysis ( at least 10 PHD’s in statistics from different universities worked on that, surely smarter than you), the David Ray Griffen Testimony, Kenneth Blackwells stonewalling( he was working for the bush/cheney camp at the same time he was ensuring a fair vote; an obvious conflict of interest), the fake ACVR GOP front group (very similar to the talon news tale) that was created 3 weeks before it was the only orginization to be invited to testify on election reform, the fact the James Baker (stopped the recount in 2000 Florida) was even on the Carter Commision(another conflict of interest), or how about the fact that any republican to date has yet to be held responsible for one ethical or criminal violation, from the false intelligence that got us into the Iraq quagmire to the Abu Garib torture scandal, to the leaking of a CIA operatives name, etc….
CB I HATE PEOPLE LIKE YOU….and don’t confuse what I mean
It is closed minded individuals like you that don’t seek truth, but distort it. That cost this country time, money, blood, world support, and most importantly the very things you preach to value most- a culture of life.
Ever ask yourself this question- What if you are wrong?
I do all the time, thats why I seek truth. Try it.
If you don’t like us and can’t make an educated point, back up with a legitimate links…leave us alone…
Charlie
Clear-cut is the now favored way of logging out a forest. Nothing is left.
I think of it as a combined form of genocide and payback. Genocide as in killing not only a whole forest but also all that lived and thrived therein.
Payback as in ‘Throw us out of Eden for eating an apple, we’ll show you!’
You guys nees to stop feeding the Troll (CB).. he’s not here to learn, he’s here to spout crap and bash on anyone that doesn’t agree with him (look at his discription of "republicans" in his home town.. mean gruff jackasses).
Facts are facts. Exit polls are used around the world to ‘gague fraud’, nothing more.. our polls SHOW FRAUD IS INDICATED, which requires ALL -good- humans to call for an investigation, not say "shut up, my guy won so fuck off". Course, given CB’s description, at least in his home town, republicans aren’t good people, they are bitter angry jerkoffs who would LOVE to see Shrubman pull this country right into the toilet.
Really, this tool is citing the people who claim that their polls are innacurate, but only in some places.. They aren’t saying all their results should be discounted.. if they are, I’d like to see them ‘explain away’ how all their ‘modifications and adjustments’ didn’t hose up the ‘paper ballot areas’ like it did the electronic ones. Not to mention, several mathmeticians and statisticians got together and reviewed the data and debunked -most- (if not all) of the pollsters’ claims.
Leave the troll out in the rain, that’s where they belong. Every few weeks we get one here crying and bitching about this. Ignore them and they might go away (especially once we get Shrubman put in prison where he belongs). I wonder if CB is one of those guys that thinks the "science" of Astronomy is "wrong" because it contradicts the bible?
S #66
I do in part agree with you but take note that your last sentence–I wonder if CB is one of those guys that thinks the "science" of Astronomy is "wrong" because it contradicts the bible? —is also a bait?
It may not be unproductive to expose the troll whenever and wherever it show up, it is an opportunity to consolidate current thinking and who knows we may get it to tell us where all the loot is now hidden.
How often do we get to converse with a rich troll?
Savanster – very wise words – but I also agree with Cole. Surely there’s a way to continue conversing with the "trolls" while keeping in mind what our goal is — to be able to know the thinking of the other side. It’s always good to keep up with that.
>Exit polls are used around the world to ‘gague fraud’, nothing more..
What a joke!!!
Exit polls were designed by the networks to try and get the early story so they could report the winner of an election without having to wait for the official tally. The exit polls have been completely fucked up in the last several elections, incuding being so off in the 2002 midterms that they had to completely re-do their methodology, which is still completely skewed.
I haven’t heard any FACTS here… just insinuation, guilt by accusation and a heavy handed tone that suggests anyone who disagrees with your kooky conspiracy theories is part of the problem.
No Republican will EVER be impeached or tried or convicted for cooking the 2004 election because it didn’t happen. Oh, sure, there is small scale voter fraud on both sides, but not in the grand conspiracy led by one master controller that you all seem to think. Get real.
Talk about closed minded: anyone who dissents in the least in this forum is insulted to no end and asked to leave. While you fuckwits keep feeding off your hatred of Bush, the world moves on. The republicans are thinking about winning in 2006 and 2008 and you tards are trying to come up with some sort of master conspiracy for old elections. No wonder we keep losing.
I forgot to say – that I’m in agreement with Cole that it is important to have the "dissident" view in order to formulate our approach to "run rings around [them] logically."
================
(Inside joke, Bushw@cker — haha.)
Oh, and this is a pretty big blog with a pretty big audience from all over this great nation, so I will ask again: HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE EVER BEEN EXIT POLLED? HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE EVER EVEN SEEN AN AP POLLER AT ONE OF YOUR POLLING STATIONS? These are entire districts with zero representation in this so-called scientifically-infalliable poll. And you think they are the gospel?
HA HA FUCKING HA
HOW MANY HAVE YOU HAVE BEEN EXIT POLLED? THERE ARE THOUSANDS READING THIS. HAS NO ONE?????
So.. any of you still think you can get -anything- intelligible from CB? Still think he’s one of the trolls worth discussing things with? At least NANANANANbannanabuttmunch or whatever had a few good arguments (though flawed, and he was shown so, and thus left at that point).
CB isn’t interested in providing any useful info here, just screaming about how we’re "kooky conspiracy theori[es]sts"..
But, whatever.. keep responding over and over to someone that refuses to support any of his arguments.. where is -any- evidence that "Exit polls were designed by the networks to try and get the early story so they could report the winner of an election without having to wait for the official tally"? Whey then are they used around the world? so -our- media can report winners in other countries for elections we don’t care about? what’s the point? and why are investigations started when the results don’t match the polls?
And to answer the "who’s been polled" question, at least for myself, I don’t vote so I’ve never been polled. I’ve seen hundreds of "poll takers" in my lifetime though.. and studied Statistics and random sampling and the like.. Have you CB? didn’t think so..
bah, why am I talking to a troll? 😛
Savanster – you’re not talking to the troll, you’re talking to us. Excellent points by you and – gee – look how mean-spirited the troll has become!! Maybe he’ll just blow up into smithereens!
I think CB finally made one good point. The republicans are looking forward. The problem though CB is that since we believe the election was stolen, its fruitless to look ahead until we win transperancy.
Answer these two questions and perhaps you’ll show that your more than just an ignorant fowl mouthed propagandist, but someone willing to look a little deeper….
Why does the republican party fight in court to stop either paper trails or a fair examination of the source code by both sides before and after the election? The democrats lost the fight in 04 in both florida and ohio. If you truly have the majority and nothing to hide, why not transperancy?
Second, why are people currently serving as a campaign managers for Bush/Cheney during election time allowed be in charge of elections?
Even a dimwit like yourself would consider that a conflict of interest. Seriously, if I (a serious democrat and liberal) ran a closed non-transperant election in a red state and it went blue, you would be ok with that?? You’d just look ahead to the next one, knowning damn well and good that I’ll just fix that one too.
Those that don’t learn from history are condemed to repeat it, as we learned from the 2000 and 2004 election. Should we just keep letting it go?
And at least your only being bashed on a blog, we get bashed by the MSM, daily. So simmer down troll. You haven’t even felt the fire yet.
Enjoy,
Charlie
Well, to my collegues at BradBlog, I’ll make this point as to why "No Republican will EVER be impeached or tried or convicted for cooking the 2004 election" and it’s not because "it didn’t happen"..
As shown by a very telling statement from Vovonivich (sp) (can’t find the damn link and I just closed the browser tab).. he says he can’t "vote down" Bolton in the comittee even though he thinks he has no business in the UN.. said he "can’t vote with the Democrats" on the issue.. So, basically, he’s saying he REFUSES TO DO HIS JOB simply because it would mean agreeing with Democrats. -THAT’S- why nothing is being done..not because no crime was comitted, because "republicans" won’t do what’s right (or their damn jobs) if it goes against the party lines. Never before (that I’m aware of) in history (since Clinton, anyway) has party politics been used to such a detriment to this country as is being done now by hate-filled, unethical, immoral, slimey politicians in the Republican Party.
Treasonous..
I think CB finally made one good point. The republicans are looking forward. The problem though CB is that since we believe the election was stolen, its fruitless to look ahead until we win transperancy.
Answer these two questions and perhaps you’ll show that your more than just an ignorant fowl mouthed propagandist, but someone willing to look a little deeper….
Why does the republican party fight in court to stop either paper trails or a fair examination of the source code by both sides before and after the election? The democrats lost the fight in 04 in both florida and ohio. If you truly have the majority and nothing to hide, why not transperancy?
Second, why are people currently serving as a campaign managers for Bush/Cheney during election time allowed be in charge of elections?
Even a dimwit like yourself would consider that a conflict of interest. Seriously, if I (a serious democrat and liberal) ran a closed non-transperant election in a red state and it went blue, you would be ok with that?? You’d just look ahead to the next one, knowning damn well and good that I’ll just fix that one too.
Those that don’t learn from history are condemed to repeat it, as we learned from the 2000 and 2004 election. Should we just keep letting it go?
And at least your only being bashed on a blog, we get bashed by the MSM, daily. So simmer down troll. You haven’t even felt the fire yet.
Enjoy,
Charlie
And I have been exit polled.
YAY.. here’s the link.. note the last 2 paragraphs..
KIRA #70
================
(Inside joke, Bushw@cker — haha.)
KIRA, a tad subtle for me at this time this of the morning, still waking up! Those few neurones I possess aren’t firing yet!
On Huffington’s site, John Conyers has jumped into the ring again with Lampley and York, hitting him with a line from "The Dead Parrot Sketch" link here.
It’s turning into an ALL IN brawl, at the Huffington Post TV Ringside!
Did you see CNN & LA Times have run with the Secret British Memo / Conyers letter to Bu$h story?
You can walk into any bar in any small town and find someone like CB…hung over, angry, bitter at the world. Many of these folks have been left by their wives for other men, others have lost jobs because of incompetence or bad luck, still others have suffered a personal loss they can’t overcome.
They have several things in common. They’re all incapable of uttering ten words without using the adjective f——. They don’t consider any facts that conflict with their mindset. They rely heavily on anecdotal evidence, not on an aggregate of facts or on reasoned analysis. And if they ever sober up for a few hours, they’re so uncomfortable inside their own skin they retreat to the nearest bottle or other anesthetic.
Know the enemy. Don’t be like him. Not ever.
Did you guys hear the judge that threw out the lawsuit against Cheney alleging that he shoud release information about his energy task force was on exonn’s pay roll
heres the link
http://www.legitgov.org/news_ch...ge_051005.html
Bushw@cker #79
Hint: THE PENGUIN SKETCH
======================
OH, INTERCOURSE THE PENGUIN!
======================
#83
I see you’ve had your coffee!
[Laughing out aloud] Yes KIRA!
RE 76
>Second, why are people currently serving as a
>campaign managers for Bush/Cheney during
>election time allowed be in charge of elections?
Oh, you mean like Oregon Secretary of State Bill Bradbury, who was Kerry’s campaign manager in that state while he ran the elections. No mention of his keeping Nader off the ballot in that state as a conflict of interest… but I suppose it’s only a problem when Bush Cheney did it.
And, by that way… congratulations. ONE person on this ENTIRE blog has been exit polled. Not "seen pollsters" but actualy exit polled by an AP poller. ONE. You guy keep up with the exit poll argument, its working wonders for you.
CB = Mananananananlosthisbananasmana?
Savanster #75
Voinovich says it would be ARROGANT to vote for the best candidate for the job. I call it braindead & morally bankrupt.
KIRA, Savan[T]ster’s got an extra "T" in there somewhere, sorry imperfect pedant that I am! 🙂
#89 Bushw@cker
My mother was an English teacher — I can’t seem to get away from the red-pen*dants.
Thank you for pointing it out, though. It’s the Savant in the Savantster I appreciate so much!
Bolton did not receive a recommendation by the committee because enough of the republicans saw the neocon element for what it really is.
Lets hope the larger Senate body will do likewise.
And lets hope they have the decency to consider election fraud as well.
Its the exit polls stupid.
Sign this letter to stop the nuclear option to destroy the filibuster.
KIRA, methinks I’ll put my red pen away, the house I reside in is estensibly constructed with glass!
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Old Women!
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The larger Senate will vote Bolton in because that is what they are paid to do.
And the democrats will continue to play the game of bipartisanship when told because that is what they are paid to do-that is why it is called buypartisan.
Vionovich has layed it out plain and simple—
‘they’ will not vote with democrats even if it means ‘they’ will vote for a swamp rat.
Bushw@cker #92
It’s ok! Unlike the Republicans of late who refuse to admit they’ve made a mistake, or refuse to study statistical analyses by some of the country’s most respected data analysts, I appreciate the knowledge and I will try to correct my errors.
By the way – while we’re on the subject of the data analysts – I want to make sure everybody saw Steve Freeman’s (Applied Research.US) FAQ page:
Have you been threatened?
Two different people have threatened to "call me out" (whatever that means — both used the same terms.)
I don’t really know what to make of this, but on March 23, while driving across the Ben Franklin Bridge in my family car with my daughter, the car began to vibrate fiercely. Upon crossing the bridge I got out in a freezing rain to examine the car, and learn that I had only two lug nuts holding the tire in place; the others were broken or missing. My mechanic says, "The lug nuts must have been loosened … "
Rather than waiting for a normal maintenance check up, we took our car in for an early check-up on April 6th, and found that the breaks were no longer functioning properly.
Note for investigators if I am involved in automobile mishap: Our car is extraordinarily well-maintained, my wife has never been in an accident in her life, nor even received a ticket for a moving violation. I have not had an accident for 23 years; and it’s been at least 10 years since I’ve received a ticket for a moving violation.
Note for investigators if some other tragedy befalls me: I am in perfect health, almost never get sick. I do not smoke, drink, or do drugs. I exercise regularly and eat a very healthy diet. I love life and would never kill myself.
Steve Freeman: Expert on Presidential Election Exit Poll Errors
from the University of Pennsylvania
Steven Freeman, an affiliated faculty member of the Center for Organizational Dynamics at the University of Pennsylvania, is available to comment on the report by Edison Media Research and Mitofsky International on errant exit poll data it provided to the National Election Pool television networks last fall.
"Although the authors of the report state that, “the differences between the exit poll estimates and the actual vote [are] most likely due to Kerry voters participating in the exit polls at a higher rate than Bush voters,” they provide little data or theory to support this thesis," said Freeman. "Rather, the report only confirms the exit poll official count discrepancy that I documented in my Nov. 12 paper, corroborates the data I collected, and rules out most types of polling error."
Dr. Freeman also questions the timing of the release of the report.
"By waiting until the presidential inauguration to release the data, the National Election Pool precluded the possibility that insights obtained could have been used as part of the legal process by which electors cast and the Congress ratifies Presidential electoral votes," Freeman said.
Dr. Freeman is author of the report "The Unexplained Exit Poll Discrepancy."
Maybe Dr. Freeman will be a guest on the Brad Show!
===========================
I give up — who are the pissy old women?
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Oops – the link for Dr. Freeman’s site:
Applied Research.US
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Man!
Man. Sorry. What knight lives in that castle over there?
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KIRA #94
Re: "Have you been threatened?"
…..sorry, is this pertaining to you or Dr Freeman?
Re: Have you been threatened?
KIRA, Just found it in the Dr’s FAQ (where you said it was 🙁 !!!)
It appears it’s dangerous to speak out against this regime. I wonder if the others who prepared similar papers have been threatened.
==========================
I’m thirty seven — I’m not old!
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Cole #93 Vionovich had indicated that he will vote against Bolton on the floor and urges the rest of the Senate to do the same.
Do we start calling some of these unexplained suicides or accidents "Bush’s Desaparecidos" ?
====================
Well I can’t just call you “man”.
====================
If anyone missed this article, it’s excellent. I’m just including a snippet along with links.
Stolen or Lost? By Steven F. Freeman, AlterNet. Posted January 20, 2005. Freeman, a polling expert, disputes journalist Russ Baker’s critique of his work analyzing the exit poll discrepancy. Editor’s Note: This is in response to Russ Baker’s "Election 2004: Stolen or Lost," originally posted on TomPaine.com. … "An exit pollster himself for over 20 years, Saint Louis University professor of political science Ken Warren (2003) has never had an error greater than 2 percent, except one time – in a 1982 St. Louis primary. In that election, massive voter fraud was subsequently uncovered."
Bushw@cker DING! DING! DING! #100
I had to look it up … chilling …
Desaparecidos is the Spanish word for "The Disappeared." For thousands of Argentine families, this word has become a symbol of a long harrowing nightmare.
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Well, you could say `Dennis’.
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Yey!! My first ton!
Meanwhile the General is enjoying the luxury of old age!
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I didn’t know you were called Dennis.
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I’m going to repeat something from my post #101 because I find it so damn telling. Crooks & Liars must pay for their crimes.
… "An exit pollster himself for over 20 years, Saint Louis University professor of political science Ken Warren (2003) has never had an error greater than 2 percent, except one time – in a 1982 St. Louis primary. In that election, massive voter fraud was subsequently uncovered."
============================
Well, you didn’t bother to find out, did you?
============================
The RAW facts on the SWINGING Mr Bolton!
PEG C, Please excuse KIRA & I, our vital youth has been tragically frittered away on Monty Python worship!
=========================
I did say sorry about the "old woman",
=========================
Haha, Peg #108! Bushw@cker & I are in the midst of searching for the Holy Grail – ala Monty Python. It’s become sort of an addiction.
#110 re:Bolton
Hahah! Larry Flynt, that muckraker is doing it again! LOL!!! He’s a real Republican Mover & Shaker – he’ll get things stirred up. LOLOL!
==================================
"What I object to is you automatically treat me like an inferior!"
==================================
… an illness you mean, KIRA!! :laugh:
================
Well I am king.
================
Well, we’re finally getting to the juicy part that relates to our political blogging, eh?
===================================
Oh king, eh, very nice. An’ how’d you get that, eh? By exploitin’ the workers — by ‘angin’ on to our outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic an’ social differences in our society! If there’s ever going to be any progress–
===================================
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I am your king.
===========
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WOMAN: I didn’t know we had a king. I thought we were an autonomous collective.
DENNIS: You’re fooling yourself. We’re living in a dictatorship. A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes–
====================================
Re: Kira, Bushwhacker, and Monty Python:
JAYZUS!
I should know better than to come here before I’m fully caffeinated *L*
Sorry KIRA, I’m sulking cos you’re getting all the best lines!!!
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WOMAN: Oh there you go, bringing class into it again.
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Dredd #99
another one of those famous "voted for –before I voted against"!
We will see.
But the strainge thing is that most Repugs will, on the larger Senate, vote for and most Demos will vote against–so there he will be voting with the Demos???
Only read up to #34 so far – but, it doesn’t surprise me in the least that Kerry may have won Virginia and come in very close in Mississippi. Republicans, in general, DID NOT VOTE for Bush. They know a moron when they see, hear and smell the Bushit! Only the few fanatics and remaining morons voted for Bush. Even Karen Whatshername (Bushits’ personal assistant) warned Bush during the evening of the election that it looked like he was going to lose. Only, Rove said, don’t worry, Bush will "surge ahead" at the end. Now, I wonder how he knew THAT would happen? Did he and a bunch of criminals control the central vote tabulation computers???? Really!!!!
Hi, Dredd #59 – one of your best statements on the current "State of the Union". This should be sent to all MSM: TV, radio, newspapers, etc.
Hurray, Robert #60 – couldn’t be more clear than that!!!
Hi, Cole #62 – 😀 funny!!
Hi, Cole #67 – Yes, I agree. While the trolls are a pain, they do provide "target" practice so to speak. They regurgitate their silly spin, and I get educated by the intelligent, informed posters on this blog on the facts as to how, when, where, and why the troll’s spin is wrong! So, "target practice" they are. It’s educates us all, convinces us all that we are on the right track, and unifies us in our efforts to rid the world of the current jackass administration sitting in the W.H.
Yeah, Kira #101, #104 – the American people will ensure this fraud is exposed and properly remedied. The bush administration should be removed immediately from the W.H. and John Kerry sworn into office. Yes, America – face up to it like real men and women and get the job done! BYW – if the MSM is worried about ratings, reporting on this story will go on for a long time and really INCREASE ratings. I may even get my cable turned back on if they charge, try and imprison this bunch of criminals for treason and war crimes!! As for shareholders, well, ridding the country of a corrupt administration should make the stock market RISE UP, RISE UP, RISE UP!!!!
Oh, Bushw@cker – I love it!!!! Why isn’t this all over the MSM? It has a "run away bride"?? It has "sex"??? What about the ratings??? Don’t they care???
Excellent job on this HORRIBLY ST***N Selection.
America’s Work Stories
http://usaworkstories.blogspot.com
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Comical. the biggest problem with Lampley’s theory.
Diebold?
Not in Ohio.
Look it up.
There were no Diebold machines used in Ohio.
Didn’t have to be, CB.
Every electronic machine in Ohio had a paper trail.
You guys’s opaque communiques are fascinating but – well – OPAQUE. What in H*** are Kira and Bushw@cker referring to by ===== and Dennis? In my limping internet connection, I have lost the thread.
Tabulators need paper trails, too, but those who defend the election never go there, because it’s too dangerous to talk about. If a central tabulator is rigged to flip votes, as happened in both Ohio and Florida, then an individual Kerry voter will never know it; a receipt that confirms his or her Kerry vote becomes irrelevant.
When blocks of votes are flipped by an optical scanner, a paper trail doesn’t show that. Only a source code does. Of course, the source codes are considered private to the companies that make the machines…and by amazing coincidence, all these companies (without a single exception) have direct ties to the Republican party.
In respect to the poster’s questioning the state of Virginia and other "red" states that previously seemed to be voting heavily for bu$h — it’s still quite telling that the polls prior to the election and just after the election were heavily against bu$h & his policies. The only time they seemed to favor bu$h was in the few weeks during the heat of the election cycle.
Just funny, that. Yes – it was a planned and concerted effort manipulated by the "Gallup-ing to the right" polls and the silence of the media on any of the unfavorable to geedubya information that was coming to light.
We see ya, MSM, and we’ve disconnected from you! We’ll come back if you ever decide to report the truth.
Bushw@cker #119
I’m so sorry. You started out being the King, but the King in this skit (like the "King" in these USA times) doesn’t have very many intelligent lines!!
I’m taking a wee bit of artistic license in my paraphrasing of the next few lines —
==================================
But … it’s the unfairness of the class structure …
that’s what it’s all about! If only people would …
==================================
M3 – Go to Blackboxvoting.org Forums. If anybody has a copy it would be someone there. Just ask – they’re all very helpful folk over there.
Well.. if anyone can get their hands on the binaries/executables of the voting softare in question.. I’ll happily disassemble it.
(yeah.. i know the likelihood of anyone having a copy is very low… but still….)
Hey Brad, this is amazing. Collection of the best of TruthIsAll, the best statistician out there on election fraud.
This compendium thread is called, appropriately:
JIM LAMPLEY: THIS IS FOR YOU. GO FOR THE KNOCKOUT.
http://www.democraticundergroun...03×369024
😥
http://www.onlinejournal.com has done some amazing coverage on the 04 election as well. Many thanks to lampley, Brad and all of you!
For me, the "smoking gun" in Florida was the ballot initiative to raise the minimum wage by an entire $1.00 an hour. Now, that one didn’t squeak through—it passed by a HUGE margin—better than 2 to 1 (I forget the exact figures, something like 68 y to 32 percent n.) You’re gonna tell me that the same people who voted to raise the minimum wage by $1.00 an hour—which, let’s face it, is a widly progressive idea—are also gonna vote for BUSH?
Hah! Bush supporters mostly don’t even think there should BE a minimum wage—let alone that it should go up by a whole BUCk an hour. Something smells there, and BAD. The crooks messed up a bit—they should have tweaked ALL the numbers, not just the ones for Bush.
I know Ohio got all the ink this time, but it wouldn’t heard to poke around in Florida again, too.
Joanne #134
Does not just ‘smell’ it reeks of noxious effluvium!
‘They’ probably could not handle other issues because ‘they’ were too busy moving numbers in ALL the states. And the Rove-ian circuits were overly stretched–he not only had to give bush a win but he had to also tweak the bush ego by giving him a bigger vote ever ! Biggest turnout ever!
All for a catastropic failure of a pResidentcy?
Right you are, Joanne. The crooks actually did a poor job in Florida. Not only didn’t they bother to cook the books on the minimum-wage initiative, they must have left the Senate race alone, because the exit polls called it a dead heat and Martinez won by less than a percentage point (they might have stolen a handful of votes to put him over, but they left it pretty much to chance).
As a poll watcher in Florida on Election Day, I can attest to the fact that the crooks did two thing right. They made sure minority districts were shorted on voting machines (half as many as had been used for the primary!), and all the flipped votes went in the same direction, from Kerry to Bush.
Now Jeb Bush is talking about a need for "absolute truth" in his speeches. OK, Jeb…great. Here are a few things that fall under that rubric that I hope you’ll mention:
1) The 2000 election was stolen.
2) The 2004 election was stolen.
3) Your brother knew about 9/11 beforehand.
4) Your brother used cooked intelligence to persuade Tony Blair to join him in an invasion of Iraq.
5) The invasion was planned before 9/11, the 9/11 was used as the rationale.
6) Your "culture of life" includes a nighttime bombing of Iraq that killed innocent children under the umbrella of "Shock and Awe."
7) Your dumb brother said "Mission Accomplished" before the first of 1,600 Americans had died in Iraq, plus God/Allah knows how many Iraqis.
8) Your former running mate Feeney is a crook.
9) Raymond C. Lemme was murdered, and your pals in the Florida D.O.T. covered it up, with your knowledge and encouragement.
10) The Secret Service has allowed a male hooker to wander around your brother’s house at will, in violation of its established procedures.
That’s just a beginner’s list, Jeb. Others will be contributing more, I’m sure. Love and kisses, Bob
Does anyone remember Karen Hughes told Bush he had lost the election and he simply would not respond? Notice we don’t hear much from Karen Hughes any more since she now realizes she helped put a corporate patsy into office. Bush’s legacy will be how many of his "friends" he kept rich during his 8 year coup. Imagine the immense pressure Bushies had on them to cheat: They did not want the embarrassment of another one-term president like father; Halliburton, et al. wanted the war to continue for financial reasons; and the anti-choicers needed false outcome to load the bench and kill Roe v. Wade. They are so close. Too bad we are on to them. We now see in the polls how Americans truly feel about this Bush hack. See, they don’t count opinion results on Diebold and ESS machines. Lastly, did anyone notice that a former Diebold exec is became top dog at Cincinnati Bell right before the election? Who better to know the phone numbers for Ohio central tabulator machines and then erase the access records? It would only take 15 minutes to reverse the results on each Central Tabulator and leave no trace except phone record of modem access.
Moonbats Unite!!!
Jim Lampley is the biggest blogger of our time!!!