READER COMMENTS ON
"Miami-Dade Election Supervisor Calls for Return to Paper Ballots!"
(14 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
said on 5/28/2005 @ 1:33 pm PT...
Wow! Do you suppose the good people of Miami-Dade know something that the rest of the country doesn't?
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
said on 5/28/2005 @ 2:03 pm PT...
Woo hoo! Both Pennsylvania & Florida election officials are acknowledging what's right in front of their faces. They're making decisions that are in the best interests of both democracy and thier state economies. Now, if only these election officials would start talking to other election officials in the rest of the states.
It's not like they need to propose their own idea for a 100% accurate voting process. All they need to do is say "Look - These e-vote machines from ES&S and Diebold have problems with accuracy. There is a much bigger margin of error with them than we had with paper ballots. Plus these e-vote machines are costing our states millions of dollars. The right thing to do is to void their contracts and stop using their e-vote machines."
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
said on 5/28/2005 @ 2:25 pm PT...
You'd think the crummy machines had a warranty, and Miami Dade would not be liable for the 20 million bucks they still think they owe? Isn't there a lemon law for voting machines (-;
crime of the century: these companies are accessories before and after the fact.
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
said on 5/28/2005 @ 2:56 pm PT...
this is from my friend ms in la who is working on an election fraud piece we'll be presenting to General Clark soon...
"Blackwell has insisted on Optical Scan for all of Ohio courtesy of Diebold. Florida is pushing for the same, threatening to throw out $25 million worth of Touch Screens and go straigh OptiScan.
Guess it's got nothing to do with the fact that in Fla. bush easily won every Optical Scan county!
This is a sneaky new repub trick. They maintain they distrust eletronic machines as if capitulating to voting activists, and want to return to paper ballots. But they leave out the part about the ballots electronic tabulation again. Now they want to throw in encrypted paper trails whose code would be known to vendors alone. Same thing. And they keep striking the word "ballot" out of the new legislation in the states to strip the paper record of any legal status. Tricky, tricky people these pubs are."
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
America's Work Stories
said on 5/28/2005 @ 4:09 pm PT...
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
Kathleen Grasso Andersen
said on 5/28/2005 @ 4:13 pm PT...
I think the best way to protest unreliable voting machines is for everyone to vote only by absentee ballot. Good solid papertrail. A voter can copy their ballot before mailing it in, so there could a double check
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
said on 5/28/2005 @ 5:10 pm PT...
Comment #4 is correct, Brad. Do your homework! Optical scanners on paper ballots were just as high a discrepancy exit polls vs. final count, as electronic voting machines. The key phrase is "IN CERTAIN COUNTY'S"!!!!! There's the best analysis I've seen on this, at:
It explains, by analysis and statistics, how certain county's exit polls vs. machine count broke sometimes 16% for Bush, in countys with paper ballots, but those paper ballots are counted by electronic optical scanners!!! This site explains all the "spots" from paper ballots to the final machine optical scanner counting, where there is no security and the count can be hacked.
Brad, I believe the only accurate state was Washington, where they mail in their ballots.
There's some good graphs here:
that haven't been explained yet, either.
Read this article:
...about how Oregon is the most accurate state, where exit polls matched the final count, and they are the ONLY STATE WITH MAIL-IN BALLOTS!!!
Here is a quote from the article:
"Oregonians have discovered that Vote by Mail is the most effective, efficient and fraud-free way to conduct an election.
At its core Vote by Mail works and is wildly popular because it returns control of the act of voting to the place it belongs: the voter. As a voter, you know when to expect your ballot in the mail, you decide when and how you want to mark your ballot and you decide when you want to turn it in (as long as it is in by 8 p.m. on Election Day)."
According to the article, the advantages of conducting elections entirely by mail are clear:
***Voter participation: It increases turnout --- 84 percent of registered Oregonians voted this year.
***Convenience: People can vote according to their schedule.
***Education: People have time to study issues and candidates before voting.
***Fraud protection: It has built-in safeguards that increase the integrity of the elections process.
***Built-in paper trail.
***Voter eligibility: Built-in time to resolve disputes.
***Actual results are released when polls close as opposed to unreliable "exit polls."
***Financial: It saves money.
Brad, we'll never see this in all the states, because it's the best system. States should have a referendum to go "Vote-By-Mail", then watch who fights against it the loudest!!! Those will be the ones who are hacking the votes!!!
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
said on 5/28/2005 @ 5:12 pm PT...
I said "Washington" instead of "Oregon" at the beginning of my last comment. Too bad we can't edit our comments, can we?
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
said on 5/28/2005 @ 5:24 pm PT...
Big Dan - No, sorry, this software doesn't allow for user editing of comments
As to your comment, I'm well aware of the numerous concerns there are re: Optical Scanners. For one, they need to be counted on the precinct level (as opposed to a centralized tabulator).
Even with the various problems, however, the upside is that to use them a PAPER ballot needs to be created. Which, in Miami-Dade, means that at least votes (if there was a will) would not be lost!
Yes, the paper can still be gamed. And yes, the paper can be non-voter-verified and/or encoded which is a problem as well.
But again, point is, we wouldn't have gotten even *this* far if not for groups like the one who forced Miami-Dade to examine their system.
We can't solve everything in one fell swoop, but we can take some measure of victory for various places where things are moving in the RIGHT, instead of WRONG direction.
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
said on 5/28/2005 @ 6:27 pm PT...
What do you think of "Vote-By-Mail"? Like Oregon does? Please answer, if you get a chance...
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
said on 5/28/2005 @ 6:31 pm PT...
re #4 and #7 --- I'm hoping the Democrats can get a bit tricky too and implement a two-step strategy [yes, I know it's asking a lot!] where the first step is to bring in paper ballots and the second step is to get rid of the scanners. Fingers crossed...
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
said on 5/29/2005 @ 3:57 am PT...
#3 and related- any indication that counties might sue Diebold for damages- at least to get the purchase money back? Granted, I don't have a lot of faith in the courts right now...
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
said on 5/29/2005 @ 5:29 am PT...
Fight fire with fire. If they won't secure electronic voting machines, Dem operatives should hack the machines, at a ridiculous rate, just to prove they are not secure. For example, have a precinct with eVote machines, go 100% Democrat, with the total number of votes triple the registered voters. Just to bring to light how easy they can be hacked into.
Just remember, eVote scandals are not being addressed because Republicans control both houses of congress. Dems should highlight how the GOP is suppressing eVote security measures. It's not being trumpeted enough by Dems.
And when is a group of progressives going to start a news cable channel? If they do, they should call it "FACTS AREN'T LIBERAL", or "F-A-C-TV".
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
said on 5/30/2005 @ 7:13 am PT...
Re: vote-by-mail there is a long history of fraud with this methodology. It doesn't mean it's impossible to do it well, just that there is a lot of be careful of.
(E.g. in some places, handling of absentee and postal votes was subcontracted out to private companies--this is one of the reasons for vote fraud recently uncovered in the UK.)
A paper ballot handed in to a precinct on election day would be safer.