There is almost no other way to put this, but we are simply floored by the report just released by the Department of Justice concerning the Franklin County, OH elections.
If there ever was a report which could be called a whitewash, this would be the very dictionary definition — with the emphasis on WHITE.
The DoJ four-page report, based on dodgy figures, uninvestigated charges and undocumented information and details, simply concludes that “Franklin County assigned voting machines in a non-discriminatory manner”, that “no violation of Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act” was found and they “are thus closing our file.”
In truth, a detailed analysis of the flaws in this report, and an unwaivering condemnation of this reprehensible piece of “official documentation” is needed. But as folks are disappearing for the Holiday Weekend, we’re afraid any analysis we took the time to compile right now would likely get lost in the holiday news-hole. So, for the moment, we’re gonna dump these documents here and leave the detailed analysis and shouts of outrage and condemnation to BRAD BLOG readers. If we can follow up a bit more after the holiday, we will.
Essentially, John Conyers’ office requested a criminal investigation by the Department of Justice investigation back in January on a number of very troubling matters related to Ohio’s 2004 Presidential Election on behalf of the minority members of the Judiciary Committee. (Letter requesting a Special Prosecutor from the DoJ is here [PDF]. Coverage of it by RAW STORY is here, and BRAD BLOG’s own reporting at the time, which led to one of the complaints in the letter to the DoJ, is here.)
Amongst the items for which Conyers’ January 14, 2005 had requested an investigation at the time — according to the response to the report Conyers sent on Wednesday — were “serious charges concerning Voter Intimidation and Misinformation; Improper Purging and other Misconduct; Caging of New Minority Voters; Misuse of HAVA Funds; Tampering of Voting Machinery and Records; Perjury by a County Board of Election Official; and the Misuse of the Great Seal of the United States on Secretary of State Blackwell’s Personal Campaign Materials.”
While no “substantive response to the many instances of voting irregularities and civil rights violations in the state of Ohio” about which Conyers’ submitted evidence has been forthcoming by the DoJ since that January letter, apparently someone within the DoJ took it upon themselves to conduct — and as we’ve said WHITEWASH — an investigation concerning what happened in just one county in Ohio.
The DoJ’s resulting four-page report, conducted by “The Voting Section of the Civil Rights Division” and sent to Franklin County officials on Wednesday, is a masterwork of obfuscation, disinformation, misinformation, smoke and mirrors and out and out lies. And remember, it comes directly from your Department of Justice.
As we’ve said, a more detailed point-by-point analysis of the outrage is called for. But for now, we feel it’s important to get the information out as is so folks can see with their own eyes what has “flabbergasted” Conyers’ as according to the response he sent in reply to the DoJ yesterday.
There is, however, at least one paragraph which jumped out at us, but that Conyers’ reply does not deal with directly (understandably, frankly, since there is so much to be “flabbergasted” about in this DoJ report!). We feel this one is important to point out as we find it particularly disconcerting for what the future may hold in Ohio [emphasis added]:
Yes, you read that right. Franklin County’s “bi-partisan” Board of Election has just now “purged” 114,000 voters from the rolls! Tee-ing things up nicely, it would seem, for many more thousands of voters to find themselves suddenly ineligible to vote when they show up at the polling place in 2006!
Over one hundred thousand voters scrubbed from the voting rolls in just one Ohio County alone by their presumably “bi-partisan” BoE. That, while we have learned over the past several months how these Ohio BoE’s are certainly not “bi-partisan” as Blackwell and their other defenders continue to maintain since a) There are “Democrats” on these boards who are specifically plants, in other words, “Democrats” in name only and b) All BoE members serve at the partisan pleasure of the distinctly partisan Secretary of State and Bush/Cheney Co-Chair, J. Kenneth Blackwell, who has routinely threatened BoE members with dismissal if and when they refuse to follow his personal partisan edicts.
But that’s just one of the outrages. We’ll let Conyers’ handle a few more. Here is his response to the DoJ report first, followed by the complete report itself by John Tanner, the Chief of the DoJ’s Voting Section. Prepare to be appalled…
The Honorable Alberto R. Gonzales
Attorney General of the United States
U. S. Department of Justice
950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, D.C. 20530
Dear Mr. Attorney General:
I today learned that your office has conducted an investigation into the recent presidential election in Franklin County, Ohio, and essentially exonerated the misallocation of machines in that County. To say the least, I am flabbergasted that your office could reach such a casual conclusion without addressing the most serious charges of misallocation of votes in the County. I am also concerned that to this date I have yet to receive any substantive response to the many instances of voting irregularities and civil rights violations in the state of Ohio that I forwarded to your office on January 14, 2005.
With regard to your review of the allocation of voting machines in Franklin County, at the outset, you seem to take comfort from the fact that the allocation was approved by a bipartisan board of elections. The reality is misconduct and negligence should never be acceptable, whether it is bipartisan, partisan, or non-partisan. You also ignore the fact that in Ohio, members of the Boards are appointed by the Secretary of State — J. Kenneth Blackwell — who is distinctly partisan, and headed up by the Bush-Cheney election effort in Ohio.
More specifically, and with all due respect, your office seems to “miss the forest for the trees” in their analysis. In four pages of somewhat convoluted logic, the Civil Rights Division tends to focus on specific and largely irrelevant details regarding the black and white voting tendencies while missing the main point that tens of thousands of individuals were effectively denied their right to vote in the critical state in the entire election. Nowhere in your analysis did you bother to address any of the following:
- A New York Times investigation revealed that Franklin County election officials reduced the number of electronic voting machines assigned to downtown precincts and added them to the suburbs. “They used a formula based not on the number of registered voters, but on past turnout in each precinct and on the number of so-called active voters … a smaller universe. … In the Columbus area, the result was that suburban precincts that supported Mr. Bush tended to have more machines per registered voter than center city precincts that supported Mr. Kerry.”
- The Washington Post also found that Franklin County election officials decided to make do with 2,866 machines, even though their analysis showed that the county needed 5,000 machines.
- The Franklin County Board of Elections reported 81 voting machines were never placed on election day, and Franklin County BOE Director Matt Damschroder admitted that another 77 machines malfunctioned on Election Day. However, a county purchasing official who was on the line with Ward Moving and Storage Company, documented only 2,741 voting machines delivered through the November 2 election day, while Franklin County’s records reveal that they had 2,866 “machines available” on election day. This would mean that the even larger number of at least 125 machines remained unused on Election Day. Matt Damschroder, misinformed a federal court on Election Day when he testified that the county had no additional voting machines – in response to a Voting Rights Act lawsuit brought by the state Democratic Party that minority precincts were intentionally deprived of machines.
- After the election, the Washington Post also learned that in Franklin County, “27 of the 30 wards with the most machines per registered voter showed majorities for Bush.” At the other end of the spectrum, six of the seven wards with the fewest machines delivered large margins for Kerry. The Washington Post also found that in Columbus this misallocation of machines reduced the number of voters by up to 15,000 votes. In other words, the low number of machines created the low number of voters — not the other way around.
Moreover, hidden in your office’s somewhat cursory analysis is an admission that the central allegation, that African-Americans were shortchanged voting machines, is true as the Department itself concedes that “the Board tended to allocate fewer machines to the 54 predominately black precincts per registered voter.” I also must disagree with your office’s dismissal of the common sense notion that election officials should have anticipated they needed more machines. This was, after all, one of the most hotly contested elections in recent history where voter interest was consistently remarkably high in public opinion polls. The Department concedes that it was well known that there were more first-time registrants in African-American precincts, but dismisses that this should have resulted in more machines in those areas, not less. Also, without explanation, the Department simply accepts that more African-American voters were forced to cast provisional ballots than white voters.
On a broader level, I am concerned that you chose to selectively investigate discrimination charges in the single county of Franklin, while more than 5 months after I submitted a detailed letter itemizing apparent wrongdoing throughout Ohio to the Department, I have yet to receive a single substantive response. This really causes me to wonder why your office is choosing to engage in and publicize inquiries which support the Administration, while ignoring — or at least delaying, review of — other potentially more embarrassing requests. The attached letter of January 14 details several serious charges concerning Voter Intimidation and Misinformation; Improper Purging and other Misconduct; Caging of New Minority Voters; Misuse of HAVA Funds; Tampering of Voting Machinery and Records; Perjury by a County Board of Election Official; and the Misuse of the Great Seal of the United States on Secretary of State Blackwell’s Personal Campaign Materials. I believe any credible review of the Ohio election warrants examination of these issues, and a written response as well.
Thank you for your attention to this important matter.
Sincerely,
John Conyers, Jr.
Ranking Minority Member
Enclosure
cc:
The Honorable F. James Sensenbrenner, Jr.
The Honorable William E. Moschella
And here is the original report from the Department of Justice’s “Voting Section of the Civil Rights Division” to which Conyers’ was replying as transcribed by The BRAD BLOG from a faxed version of the report:
Civil Rights Division
Voting Section — NWB
930 Pennsylvania Ave, NW
Washington, DC 20530
June 29, 2005
Nick A. Soulas, Jr.
Assistant Prosecuting Attorney
Civil Division
Franklin County
373 South High Street
Columbus, OH 43215
Dear Mr. Soulas:
The Voting Section of the Civil Rights Division recently conducted an investigation into the November 2, 2004 general election in Franklin County, prompted by allegations that Franklin County systematically assigned fewer voting machines in polling places serving predominantly black communities as compared to its assignment of machines in predominantly white communities. As set forth below, the evidence our investigation has revealed establishes that Franklin County assigned voting machines in a non-discriminatory manner. Accordingly, there was no violation of Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act, 42 U.S.C. 1973, and we are thus closing our file.
We note at the outset that elections in Franklin County, as elsewhere in Ohio, are run by a six-member Board of Elections, three of whose members are representatives of each major political party. In Franklin County, the members of the two parties appear to work well together and share a common goal of running fair elections. The structural bi-partisanship of the Board extends to active cooperation in decisions on election issues, and that spirit of cooperation also has been extended to our investigation. We very much appreciate the readiness and openness with which the Board has greeted and filled our requests for records and other information.
It is clear that there were long lines at polling places across Franklin County, and it was not uncommon for voters to have to wait three or more hours to cast their ballots. This was especially true within the City of Columbus, where the ballot was exceptionally long. But the long lines were attributable not to the allocation of machines, but to the lack of sufficient machines to serve a dramatically enlarged electorate under any allocation. Voters came to the polls in record numbers last November. Within Franklin County, the number of registered voters rose from 681,949 for the 2000 general election to 845,720 for the 2004 general election, and increase of 24%. Voter turnout rose even more sharply, from 417,800 in 2000 to 535,575 in 2004, an increase of over 28%. In fact, Ohio as a whole had one of the largest increases in turnout in the nation from the 2000 election. To ensure that this type of situation does not occur again, the Board has determined on its own initiative to increase the number of voting machines from 2,904 to 5,000 for the 2006 election.
A major complicating factor in the appropriate allocation of voting machines was the artificially inflated voter registration rolls in the county. The 845, 720 registered voters in 2004 actually exceeded the 2000 total voting age population of Franklin County (800,657) by 45,063 persons. This unsettling disparity resulted from the loss, during preparation for computer system changes in anticipation of the year 2000, of voter history data necessary for purging the voter rolls of ineligible voters as required by the National Voter Registration Act. The County chose to start fresh with new voter histories, with the result that there had been no voter purge since 1999. The County resumed regular purging of its voter list only after the 2004 election, and on June 20, 2005 removed approximately 114,000 ineligible individuals from its voter registration list. The 2005 purge brings the voter registration total well below the 2000 voting age population in the county.
In any event, the Board used the inflated voter rolls in the Fall of 2004 as one factor in its allocation of voting machines, and it also used past voter turnout as another factor. Of course, any allocation — no matter how bipartisan — was inevitably going to be inelegant and imprecise given that the Board had to make allocation decisions well before the election and was constrained by the number of voting machines available (2,904), the number of precincts (788), and the Ohio practice of having at least two machines in each precinct so that voting can continue if one machine breaks down. As Elections Director Damschroder acknowledged, the process involved “some math and some art.”
With respect to the purported racial disparities in machine allocations, the reality is that while there tended to be more registered voters (based on the inflated rolls) per machine in predominantly black precincts than white precincts, the allocation of voting machines actually favored black voters because more white voters were voting on each voting machine than black voters. To understand how this came to be, it is important to note the voter turnout in Franklin County, as in much of the United States, varies significantly by race. Within the 392 precincts whose 2000 population was over 95 percent white in voting age population, voter turnout was 60.1% of total voter registration in 2000, and 68.1% in 2004. The 54 precincts over 66.6% black in voting age population had turnout of 51% in 2000 and 59.5% in 2004. Within the 12 most heavily white precincts, voter turnout was 78.9%. In the 12 most heavily black precincts, turnout was 61.8%.
In considering voter turnout, the Board tended to allocate fewer machines to the 54 predominantly black precincts per registered voter because of the long history of lower black turnout. But while there were fewer voting machines in black precincts than in white precincts based on registration, the disparity was reversed when compared to actual voter turnout in the 2004 election. In fact, voting machines in the white precincts were busier than the machines in the black precincts, and black persons who went to the polls were not at a disadvantage due to the number of machines. To the contrary, the allocation of voting machines actually favored black voters because more white voters were voting on each voting machine than black voters. (Specifically, white precincts averaged 172 voters per machine, while black precincts averaged 159 voters per machine.) The disadvantage for white voters (less than 10%) was relatively minor, and not enough to violate the Voting Rights Act. Nevertheless, we note that but for the decision of the Board to adjust for voter turnout ahead of time, the disparities would have been much greater.
Our investigation further revealed that the predominantly black polling places stayed open later than the predominantly white precincts in order to serve those voters who were in line at the normal 7:30 p.m. poll closing time. Polls in Ohio normally are open for 13 hours, from 6:30 a.m. until 7:30 p.m. Within the City of Columbus, where lines were longest, the 25 most heavily black precincts (averaging over 89% black voting age population) stayed open one hour and 15 minutes longer than the polls in the 25 most heavily white precincts (averaging over 99% white voting age population). To be sure, data are not available to determine the flow of voters through polling places, so it is not possible to establish from these figures whether voters in the black sites waited longer than voters in the white sites.
Allowing for problems or incidents in individual precincts (one white precinct was open for less than the 13 hours prescribed by state law), the principal cause of the difference appears to be the tendency in Franklin County for white voters to cast ballots in the morning (i.e., before work), and for black voters to cast ballots in the afternoon (i.e., after work). We have established this tendency trough local contacts and through both political parties, and it accords with our considerable experience in other parts of the United States. Morning voters may wait in line several hours, as happened in white precincts, without keeping the polls open after 7:30 am; this is not the case, however, at sites where voters arrive after 5:30 p.m.
We have examined other possible factors related to the delay. The predominantly black precincts had larger numbers of newly registered, first-time voters — 17.6% of voters in the 50 most heavily black precincts compared to 7% in the 50 most heavily white precincts. However, only 45.1% of newly registered voters in black precincts actually went to the polls, compared to 84.1% in the white precincts. There also were proportionally slightly more provisional ballots cast in black precincts (3.5% of all ballots) than in white precincts (2.2% of all ballots). The system for casting provisional ballots in Franklin County required the ballot to be cast on the machine, rather than on a separate paper ballot. As Mr. Damschroder pointed out, this was especially awkward and time-consuming in Columbus, where the ballot itself was cumbersome. Yet it does not appear that these factors were significant in terms of overall voting time.
The circumstances of the November 2 election clearly identify areas for improvement, and the Board has taken the principal step in its decision to increase the number of voting machines from 2,904 to 5,000. We commend the County for its outreach program to familiarize voters with voting machines, a program that will be expanded significantly as new voting devices are purchased. Such outreach will minimize delays in voting in future election, as will the Board’s agreement to attempt to identify precincts with voters who may require additional time in voting due to physical, education or language barriers.
Again, thank you for the ready cooperation that both the Board and you personally extended to us during our investigation. We are equally ready to provide any assistance we can in identifying and addressing potential problems and to help you fulfill your goal of better serving the voters of Franklin County.
Sincerely,
John Tanner
Chief
Voting Section
Thank you John for carrying on the fight when they would lie to us concerning the facts which you have presented to them. Yet they refuse to look at all of your and our concerns when it comes to the election problems in Ohio. This only leads me logically to believe they are hiding what really happen in the state of Ohio. The American public is tired of the lies and the lyers in this admistration. Please keep fighting for the truth to be known, we are behind you, we have your back.
What has happened to our country? This isn’t America, this is another third world banana republic.
Everyday that goes by, I see this country further and further on a path of no return.
….and I’m sure once again we will hear nothing but cricketts from the Democratic leadership on this.
BTW, go to hell DNC for doing your part in carrying on this fraud against our democracy ( bogus investigation report of Ohio).
The only thing shocking here is that COnyers received any sort of response from the Gonzales DOJ at all. Yes, the corruption is wide. The loyalists are in place in every branch of our government.
People are either bought off or threatened into compliance.
Happy 4th, everybody–say goodbye to what you once knew as the United States. We’re now Neocon America, Inc.
The DNC reports no cheating.
The DOJ reports no cheating.
But CONyers keeps whining (and collecting money from you all) about Ohio!
NOBODY CARES!
You lost, Bush won. Get over it.
Get a better candidate next time.
{Comment deleted. Please refrain from personally attacking other commenters. Even if they are Jimmo.}
About the only thing Jimmo ever said that I agree with: "Get a better candidate next time."
Jimmo, with all due respect, which is probably not much, why do you lurk here? I don’t get it. Everyone here is hostile to you. Surely there are some rightie blogs out there for ya. Seriously, dude.
He said the discrimination against the White voters was negligible. What? Are you kidding me? These guys are just pure evil.
Another thing which I found interesting was that the exit polls seemed to show that the Kerry voters were out early, but the Bush voters came in late and their late vote pushed him out in front. But, the DOJ letter said the Bush voters voted early and the Black voters tended to vote in the evening afte work. They can’t even keep their lies straight because they let the truth creep in once in a while.
Fight! Fight! Fight!
#4
All,
Jimmo reminds me of Hank on Conyers blog. [ More . . . ]
It’s a serious matter when voters get intimidated and I am glad that Congressman Conyers is following up. Take notes on the dances from DoJ’s Gonzalez . . . this is a warmup for the non-sense coming over the White House FOIAs and other reasonable requests for information about the DSM. [ More . . . ]
#7 MarkH, Well Done! Excellent catch! That’s another one for the impeachment file: Orchestrating efforts to defraud an election.
All,
Mark pointed out the inconsistent story by the White House on voter-arrival-time, voter-types, and the change in voting profiles/ramps [how quickly votes are stacking up over time]. Good job, MarkH.
Voting analysis
These two different explanations [ DNC, actual data; vs Gonzalez explanations] could be compared side by side using a 3-D simulation of the interarrival times of the voters; changes in the voting distance: Showing that the same sets of data are being explained using two different stories: They don’t match what the "actual skewed" data originally reported.
Interestingly, given the scope of the apparent fraud, there may be some interest to do some detailed analysis. For example, it is possible to take the exit polling data and create a simulated file of the interarrival time of the actual voters, not just the voting as reported in the machines.
Next, it would be interesting to run three sets of simulations [Reported version; actual version; and the Gonzalez version] side by side in a three-column format to show how the data is skewed and not plausible.
RNC attacking own offices
If you’re interetsed there was a study done comparing the attacks on RNC offices to the relative size of the RNC lead over the DNC. It appeared as though the attacks were related to RNC-risk areas; meaning — it looks like the RNC attacked their own offices to swing the vote.[ More . . . ]
I’m not surprised, but my god, these fascists are just plain sick! They think its JUSTICE that the minority voters got purged and didn’t have the vote counted, when the WHITE voters did get counted for the most part?!?!??
What arrogant, fucking 3 year old assholes. I’m literally more disgusted than the DNC report. Jezuz!
Doug E.
All,
This is who you are dealing with: People who put covenants to eachother over the Constitution. [ More . . . ]
I highly recommend the links–they give a good insight into the psychology behind the decisions/strategy related to the voting fraud.
Speaking as someone who knows Franklin County first hand . .IT JUST AIN’T THAT BIG!!!!! OMG!!! IT is NOT the Height of population to drop 114,000 voters from the rolls. My grandparents lived there and I KNOW it well.
HOW NUTS IS THAT? THIS IS INSANE!!!!
Sorry for shouting. But what in the hell do we have to do to get our country back? Is it going to come down to FEMA Marshall Law and violence?
Well, i guess it is that big . .its’ kind of spread out but still? I cannot imagine such corruption there! I just cannot!
WTF #2 – exactly exactly exactly…
Doug #10 – thank you for that link to the article on the DLC on another thread…
Constant – YOU ROCK!!
jpentz #12 – I will be back to the shouting stage – right now I’m sorta stunned and depressed…
I do think we’re gonna have to take it to the streets guys. Otherwise we misewell kiss it goodbye… A good night’s sleep, get me out of this hellhole I’m temporarily stuck in called Ohio and I’ll be ready!!!
I already knew about the CNP/Family group of conservative whackjobs. I mean you can read about them anywhere, even here.
http://seekgod.ca/cnp/
I already knew about the fact that Ahmanson controls the voting companies and owns the stock- And that he’s a member of the family, since the proof is out in plain view.
http://www.ecotalk.org/VotingMa...eCompanies.htm
But, I never ever dreamed these folks would be that arrogant to come right out and admit they loved purging voters and balancing the votes! I never dreamed they would come out, admit their crimes with a happy face.
Their arrogance will be their own downfall, because now we have all the proof needed to reconcile it with the existing exit polls…And turn over more data which shows forever more they stole the election. Not like our "Justice" will do anything for it, but we the people, can overthrow these lunatics. We have to get really in your face and mad now.
Doug E.
Maybe this is a silly question, BUT, I can’t help myself. Can some sort of grass roots organization begin a registration process in every state of the union, to help the poor, the minority, the typically disenfranchised, gather whatever they need in order to have their votes ‘count’ in the ’06 election. If we spend all our time whining and complaining and hoping the we can make the liars pay for past behaviors, we may not have enough time to prepare for the future. Just a thought!!
Alan
‘Essentially, John Conyers’ office requested a criminal investigation by the Department of Justice investigation back in January ‘
!!!! Conyers must live in cloud cuckoo land…why should an element of the Bush machine be considered trsutworthy in carrying out an investigation into a republican crime? As with the pentagon investigating the pentagon, why should the dept of INjustice be trusted to honestly investigate something it is linked to????
What is needed are INDEPENDENT investigations. Why not try the UN?
Yes, I think Conyers only went to the department of injustice to get them to look bad and prove a point.
What we need is a really nasty surprise audit by our friends in the United Kingdom, who saved us by delivering downing street, and they WILL do it because they know democracy is at stake. And if we all finish the investigations their face will be cowed with the tar of their crimes, and we the people will throw them out with one large un-ending YELL!!!!!!!!!
WE take back the media now, and WE take back the country through one large fight!
Doug E.
#14 Jen, TY! ~You~ rock!
#16 Alan, good idea. Your leadership would be great!; and we need a parallel effort to know what exactly went wrong so that the problems are fixed.
All,
If you’re getting depressed or annoyed by what is going on, that is a good sign. For this is energy building up. The key will be to focus this.
Before a flower can bloom, a seed must crack. Your anger is related to your understanding what you value about yourself and what is most important. If you suppress your anger and fail to channel it in a constructive direction you might find yourself getting depressed.
Blog about your feelings! Let it all out. Then come back later and give yourself time and space to reflect on what you plan to do. Here are some ideas. [ More . . . ]
Subj: The UN vs US in re voting and unlawful wars of aggression
# 17 Brian: Yes, the UN is an option.
And going further, the UN could also be a place to have sanctions brought against the US for unlawful war.
One of the issues brought up in the Goldsmith Memo was that the UN could take a vote against the US and UK for the war crimes. This votingn irregularity stuff could get brought up as a method to generate interest in the problems in the US.
For the relevant quote in the Goldsmith Memo, check para 35 here.
The GCHQ wiretapping of UN HQ prior to the Iraq vote wasn’t just about influencing the vote for war, but also dissuading them from taking any adverse action by way of imposing consequences for an unlawful war. THis is one of the objectives Bolton has in "reforming" the UN: Dissuading the UN General Assembly from voting to have the US and UK held liable, as discussed by Goldsmith.
ARticle 5 of the UN Definition of Aggression is the appropriate language.
I am disturbed by a number of things about the Department of Injustice letter, but the elimination of 114,00 "ineligible" voters form their list isn’t necessarily evidence, by itself, of electoral fraud. From what I understand, election officials typically generate a backlog of names on their voter registration lists of people who have died or moved and the records are not immediately corrected or updated. However, the size of the purge is extraordinarily large, and would seem difficult to explain.
Sorry to address the issue of an obnoxious troll – but – I think I’ve figured out what happened to Jim/Jeff/Gannon/Guckert – stand up and say hello Jimmo! Just make sure you remove Karl Rove’s member from your orifice before to do.
#20 Constant:
on the subject of war crimes, i recommend people read this Democracynow! interview:
http://www.democracynow.org/art.../06/30/1333214
Excerpt:
‘What I discovered by accident was that — this is not a concern that I have alone — President Bush’s White House counsel, Alberto Gonzales, himself, who is now the Attorney General of the United States, wrote a memo in January 2002 to President Bush saying one of the reasons we need to opt out of the Geneva Conventions wasn’t just because they didn’t like the Geneva Conventions because they don’t like treaties, but he said, we have to worry about prosecutions under the U.S. War Crimes Act of 1996. That, it turns out, is a federal statute that applies to any U.S. national, military or civilian, high or low, who violates the Geneva Conventions in certain ways. In other words, who engages in murder, torture, or inhuman treatment. And it’s not just those who engage in it, it’s those who order it or those who, knowing about it, fail to take steps to stop it. That means higher-ups.
JUAN GONZALEZ: This 1996 law is not very well known.’
# 16 Alan,
How do you propose holding them accountable in the "next electoin" if we don’t take the time to figure out:
A. What they did;
B. What needs to be done;
C. How to communicate what went wrong [just just in the vote, but in DSM, and war crimes] in terms that the RNC can understand so they will vote against them?
As to your point as to why the issues should or should not be addressed, I do find it curious that when particular issues are brough up suggesting there are parallels between the Nazis and the US that you have dismissed the comparisons.
I have carefully reviewed your remarks on the Conyers blog and outline my thoughts here. [ More . . . ]
You may be well respected by the Conyers, BradBlog, and Raw Story. However i’m not impressed by the continued feedback I’m hearing: Dismissing concerns; getting people to focus on things that you would prefer; explaining away valid comparisons to other trends.
All,
It would be prudent, in my view, to carefully consider the speed to which your concerns are dismissed and the appropriateness of the suggestions and comments. I would hate to think that someone is here hoping to encourage people to ignore things that need attention.
Trnslation: Alan, I’m skeptical of your comments. You’ve been warned.
"voter registration lists of people who have died or moved and the records are not immediately corrected or updated."
If you look at the official turnout results, these are all of black-african americans who are alive and well and has nothing to do with outdated lists.
Doug E.
Why haven’t a single one of you asked the question: Why doesn’t Conyers just fly to England and ask Dearlove & Rycroft some questions.
His office will tell you they are thinking about it but that is the same answer they have given for a month now and is total bull crocky.
They will tell you Dearlove has a new job now and making a statement would interfer with his new job and that is total bull crocky.
They have said numerous times to inquisitive people calling his office that they are near to an agreement to have Dearlove come to the USA for a Conyers forum; but it NEVER happens does it?
Could it be because the British opponents to Blair have held no fewer than THREE hearings on these minutes and issues in their attempts to IMPEACH BLAIR and came up EMPTY handed each time.
You did not know that did you? Yes; the so called memos have been though three hearings already in Britian. THAT is why Tony Blair always says there is nothing new in these memos!
Conyers won’t tell you that will he! He won’t because he LIKES YOUR MONEY!
re: Downing STreet memo: earth shattering new information!
Why haven’t a single one of you asked the question: Why doesn’t Conyers just fly to England and ask Dearlove & Rycroft some questions.
His office will tell you they are thinking about it but that is the same answer they have given for a month now and is total bull crocky.
They will tell you Dearlove has a new job now and making a statement would interfer with his new job and that is total bull crocky.
They have said numerous times to inquisitive people calling his office that they are near to an agreement to have Dearlove come to the USA for a Conyers forum; but it NEVER happens does it?
Could it be because the British opponents to Blair have held no fewer than THREE hearings on these minutes and issues in their attempts to IMPEACH BLAIR and came up EMPTY handed each time.
You did not know that did you? Yes; the so called memos have been though three hearings already in Britian. THAT is why Tony Blair always says there is nothing new in these memos!
Conyers won’t tell you that will he! He won’t because he LIKES YOUR MONEY!
WELL, NOT TOTALLY NEW.
Hi all I haven’t read all comments yet. But I’ve been following Brad since Ray Lemme’s death.
God Damn. This sucks big time. Aurr!!!
Jimmo,
Can you recommend a right-wing blog for me to heckle?
Brian #17 – To clarify, the original request by Conyers to the DoJ was for a "Special Prosecutor" to be appointed for the criminal investigation. He requested someone independent for precisely the reason you mention. And, apparently, he — and the other members of the U.S. House Judiciary Comm. who requested it — were even given the courtesy of a reply as far as we know.
It’s amazing how much these right wing spammers sound alike. They could be the same person or bot. Quite ruthless in use of tactics, too.
The thing is, when the foxes are investigating the foxes, the chickens aren’t going to get any justice.
What floors me is not the DOJ whitewash. It’s Carter’s apparent participation in a whitewash. That truly floors me.
#24
here’s a quote from the McGovern interview with Brad:
RM: Well, I only now sort of inductively and/or experientially, particularly since 9/11 what I’ve observed, and what I have observed is a sea change in the willingness of The New York Times and The Washington Post to report anything that’s of embarrassment to the administration. They were the cheerleaders for this unprovoked war, they were oblivious to checking out their facts—it was an incredibly irresponsible performance on the part of both papers. Now, how do you explain it? People need to be a little more clever than I to explain it, but I buy into the explanation that many of these newspapers, if not all, are owned by a corporate milieu here who has joint interests with the administration, who is kind of involved with the administration so closely that it resembles very much the beginning of fascism where you have the corporate media, the corporations themselves, and the government all working hand-in-glove to keep the truth and the facts away from the people.
Hey Brad, hope you will check out the open thread, too. Kira and I have a birth announcement there.
I love this country so much .
I’m going to Bettendorf, IA to see the most awesome fireworks. My family has a special spot. We lay on blankets looking up. We get hit with chunks of burned out fireworks.
I was balling my eyes out when I started this post.
Thanks Rep Conyers for NEVER GIVING UP.
And I love this blog, Brad.
Happy Independance Day Everyone here
What are good people to do when criminals occupy the Department of Justice???
Peggy–We are to show up in Washington DC on 9/24 at the Impeachment Rally (www.impeachbush.org) We are to say ENOUGH.
How much you want to bet that the Bushies threatened O’Connor and made her step down as a big distraction? Because they couldn’t get another terrorist attack on our soil mounted quickly enough. Gee, ya THINK the confirmation hearings will be held the same day as the impeachment rally? Yeah, happy 4th of July, folks.
We need to watch very closely the pre-election polls, the election day exit polls, and the accual results of the 2006 mid terms and have at least One Democratic candidate with the balls to stand up and yell FRAUD (as Kerry/Edwards should have done) and let them know in advance that we will back them up 100% with a mass protest not on Washington but at the Headquarters of CNN! We let them know that untill this Fraud is reported to the American Public and investigated no one comes in or out of that building!!It’s the only way we can get those bastards to do their job and show the millions of Americans taking to the streets to protest this Fascist monster that has taken over this country…
Great idea, Seattle, but you have to remember that WE can’t save the editors and writers from having their careers ruined. WE can’t protect their children. Who would you protect–the nation or your family?
Yes, the media is to blame, but even worse are the Dems. They’re the ones we should picket. John Kerry is the worst of the bunch. Nothing but disappointments from him. Now I bet if we picketed the Dems outside the Senate, THAT would get some media attention.
Jim, not a bad idea my friend. Not bad at all…
just as long as the media coverage didn’t make it look as if the protestors were accusing the Dems of election fraud!
That would be perfect! If the corporate media accused the democrats of election fraud, then everyone would be up in arms!!
We should do exactly that and picket riot the democratic headquarters!!!! They will all scream fraud, and once the rising chasm goes nuclear, WE THE PEOPLE take back the country!!!! No more Hillary’s no more liars, and no more ILLEGAL WARS!!!
Doug E.
Constant,
Re: #24 "What needs to be done"
See here and also immediately below it. I have not seen these issues discussed elsehere–yet these are the "ground-up" reforms that are most important if we want to restore democracy.
The Technical Report is due out in the next 1 or 2 days and it should be an amazing read.
Gonzales just ended any chance he would be considered for the SCOTUS with this act.
Also it is a conflict of interest and should be part of an independet counsel inquiry.
Great work here as usual Brad.
The link that led here was from Wes Clark’s CCN threads… keep fighting the good fight here!
Quoted from Kathleen Wynne on the link on 41 above:
"The root causes [of the problems in our election system] are:
1. The certification process for these voting machines;
2. The extremely flawed programming we’ve found in the Diebold Optical Scan machines, which we suspect similar programming flaws exist in all the other machines as well; so, we need to be allowed to check them out too before continuing to trust them to count our votes;
3. The river of money flowing through our election process via the vendors, lobbyist, election officials and politicians, which corrupts the entire system from the bottom up. "
[and in the follow-up post from Bev Harris]
"I’d add another:
1) A compete failure in the area of compliance with existing laws, and lack of any consequences for breaking the law or ignoring the standards.
One thing it looks like we all agree on in this thread — but is definitely NOT agreed on by the establishment, including the Baker Carter Commission we met today–
We need to rebuild the system because our electoral system is fundamentally broken.
I think the election reform issue is breaking into two camps — the camp that wants to seek approval from the establishment (apply cosmetic changes to what we’ve got) and the camp that wants to rebuild from the ground up. "
I have previously stated that Jimo should be banned. After reading WTF #5 I feel his comments should be stricken as well (at least his last ones) and if he cannot find a way to have a civil discourse then he should find someplace else to express his views.
Jimmo makes me feel smarter.
{Comment deleted. It’s not a matter of being “PC”, it’s a matter of not personally attacking other commenters. Even if they are Jimmo.}
To Doug E., Comment #25:
I would not doubt you may be correct about African-Americans being the target of election officials striking "ineligible" persons from their lists. However, is this a suspicion, or is this documented somewhere? If the latter, can you cite your source? I would like to know so I can read and check for myself. I confess I have yet to read but a snippet of the important Conyers Report, although I know the gist of it.
July 4th. No taxation without representation. We now have evidence it was a conspiracy and will continually be covered up. Don’t pay taxes or buy from wal mart. Might help move the investigation along. The only thing repubs want from us is our money
To Phil, Comment #32:
I am bothered by Carter’s going along with Baker, too. However, I still tend to think Carter is decent and intelligent, but very naive and trusting – a relative "babe in the woods." Until I see some evidence otherwise, I think Carter is simply unable to believe people can be as ruthless in wielding power, and as deeply corrupt and cynical, as we believe Bush, Baker, and company to be based on everything we see laid before our eyes. There is precedent for this, too. Carter was outwitted by Republicans in 1980 in his re-election bid because George H. W. Bush, Bill Casey, and their CIA buddies connived with certain contacts in Iran to keep the American hostages to stay in captivity until after the election in order to hurt Carter’s chances. This is documented in Robert Parry’s book Secrecy and Privilege, as well as other sources. That illicit activity amounts to treason in my book, but the perpetrators were never fully investigated and brought to justice. One of the key people to quash efforts to do so was every Republican’s favorite "Democrat," Lee Hamilton. As you may recall, there was a later scandal surrounding the Reagan administrtation’s arming Iran to illicitly fund the Contras in Nicaragua — a continuation of the same scandalous activities begun by Poppy BushCo in 1980. But I digress…
Constant,
I am confused. On #19 you seemed to like what I said, the a while later, you "warned" me that you are watching!!
I consider myself warned.
Just one question…what are you warning me and others about. I offered a further suggestion that might nip the problem in the bud. I did not negate any other argument of what should be done to get at the truth. Your warning seemed as if I was trying to deflect from the battle. I suggest that you go back and read #16 to see if you still think I’m up to no good.
You have your own blog site. You are much more activist than most, who as we see on this iste and others, just complain, complain, complain. My suggestion was a more low-key thought, where a neighbor might help a neighbor to register so their vote will count.
I imagine my suggestion offended you in some way, though I am confused how. Maybe you could explain in more detail to a simpleton like myself.
To the rest of you who are surely onto me thanks to Constant’s vigilance, I will certainly try to refrain from future input.
p.s. To Constant…as per Conyersblog: The gathering up of illegal aliens poses no problem for me. As I said the other day, the gathering up of anyone legal, who is behaving legally, is very troublesome, and clearly against the law of the land, and of American Liberty!
Alan
I am a Columbus Ohio resident who agrees that our electoral process is fundamentally broken. I invite Brad blog readers to get involved to the extent possible in working for State election reform. Election reform activists in Ohio recently discouraged the Ohio legislature from passing a bill that did not address critical flaws in the last election. I am of the "rebuild from the ground up camp" but do not think there is enough momentum to give up electronic voting equipment as yet. In the interim I urge concerned citizens to advocate for random auditing of our voting technology so we can see how accurately or inaccurately it measures voter intent. For those who would like a good introduction to concerns regarding the security and reliability of voting technology, I suggest you go to www/votergate.tv. I consider this brief eye opening video to be an excellent example of investigative journalism. I would also like to pass along the information that anyone concerned with voting integrity issues can present testimony at hearings. Here is part of what I presented to the Ohio Senate Rules Committee.
6/14/05
Dear Senators,
Ohio HB 3 does not mention procedures to audit the accuracy and reliability of the technology used to count our votes. Bev Harris of Black Box voting has demonstrated that the central tabulators and optical scanners developed by Diebold are essentially fraud friendly and easily compromised. Issues related to provisional ballots and voter registration affect a percentage of Ohio voters. Issues related to the accuracy and security of our vote counting equipment effects every single Ohio voter.
As a private citizen uninformed about election technology, I was immediately alarmed when I learned that Ken Blackwell had contracted to buy electronic voting equipment that did not have a paper trail. I could not believe that anyone whose job it is to protect the integrity of our elections would consider a voting methodology that does not allow for verification and a recount. Following the 2004 presidential election I had even more reason to be concerned about the accuracy and security of election technology. How can any Ohio voter have confidence in vote scanners and electronic voting machines when a precinct in Franklin County registered 4258 votes for Bush when only 638 votes were cast? How many other serious errors were there that were not detected.
I have been researching voting technology and reading about the practices of the major voting equipment developers for several months now. Everything I read about Diebold, one of the two largest US voting equipment vendors, suggests that their equipment is neither secure nor reliable. Diebold internal memos published on the web show their integrity to be suspect as well. Voting machine vendors using proprietary software ask those who purchase their equipment to take their word that their software is secure and reliable. What incentive does a for-profit, private, vendor have to establish meaningful standards for testing the accuracy and reliability of voting equipment once it is in place? Government oversight of voting technology vendors is practically nonexistent. Voting machines that use proprietary source code should be illegal. All of the programmers whose opinions I have read, question the reliability and security of mechanized vote tabulation in general.
The very fact that the average citizen finds voting technology mystifying has led to misplaced trust in the security and reliability of such equipment. Electronic, inauditable, voting machines using secret software have been implemented across the country. Proprietary software is an open invitation to fraud because it cannot be adequately tested by persons outside the company. A cursory literature search of voting technology reveals numerous instances of equipment failure and compromised security. Fortune Magazine considered paperless voting technology to be the worst technology of 2003. Bev Harris of blackboxvoting.org has demonstrated how trivial it is to hack into the Diebold central tabulator, alter the vote tally and exit the program undetected.
Computer experts who know the limitations of the technology, readily acknowledge the inherent difficulty of building voting technology that is sufficiently secure and reliable and auditable. With voting technology, programmers face the herculean task of developing software for a product that is likely to be under attack from individuals who are trying to subvert its operations. The development and rigorous testing required to build and maintain a sufficiently secure and reliable voting technology would ultimately be cost prohibitive.
A transparent election system is essential to maintain the confidence of the voter. Herein lies the essential flaw inherent in all electronic vote tabulation systems. Vote counting that takes place inside a machine is not visible and therefore not transparent. Lynn Landes, a leading journalist specializing in voting technology and democracy issues, believes that voting machines lack the necessary transparency to enforce voting rights. She suggests that paper ballots, counted by hand, under secure conditions may be the only way to eliminate vote tampering. Voting technology by virtue of its complexity provides more entry points for fraud and allows fraud to take place on a larger scale. Computer systems are subject to subtle manipulations that even experts in the field have difficulty detecting. With hand counted, paper ballots what you see is what you get.
I consider the counting of my vote to be vitally important. I want to know that whoever purchases the technology that is at the foundation of our democracy understands that this technology is neither secure nor reliable. Voting technology experts who have studied this issue at length conclude that the only way to have vote transparency is to maintain paper ballots as the vote of record. All voting equipment should, at a bare minimum, provide a verifiable paper audit trail. Election fraud will always be with us. Knowing that our vote counting technology is exceptionally fraud friendly, I believe it is imperative to build in mandatory manual audits to detect voting equipment malfunction and vote fraud. Without manual audits there is no deterrent to fraud.
Ohio HR 3 would do well to adopt provisions of Federal (H.R. 550). Ohio lawmakers need to address the biggest hole in election security by requiring mandatory manual audits, increasing security standards, and prohibiting the use of undisclosed software.
Any new voting systems acquired with HAVA funds must provide a voter-verifiable paper record to enable all voters to verify that their votes have been accurately recorded and to enable elections officials to conduct meaningful manual recounts and audits of election results.
I have very little confidence in the accuracy and integrity of our election process as it stands. The continuation of our democracy depends on how effectively we monitor those who count our vote.
Teresa Blakely
I apologize for the lengthy post. I emphathize with the anger and frustration of various contributors. Gandhi’s quote has inspired me."We must become the change in the world that we desire.
To Ohio citizens, who may want to voice their concerns regarding voting technology, there is a well written petition you may want to sign at http:www.PetitionOnline.com/evoting.
Peggy #35 correct…
Bush & Company now controls all of our world and our fascist government. So much for Democracy. Their good old boy network is huge. They make the rules and take our money. The super rich and/or big business controls Bush & Company whom own’s their government, their courts which make/brake the rules we are suppose to follow. Big business wants to pay us give us $6 or $7 an hour, no benefits. Bush and Company wants us to give back 2/3’s in the form of tax money most of which finally ends up in Bush’s Cayman Islands Bank Accounts.
We can bitch, complain, write mountains of emails and letters. However, if Conyers and/or Kennedy can’t move mountains with the Ohio/Florida election problems, sex slaves in the White House, Rove outing Agent Plume and/or the Downing Street Memo’s were screwed so nothing changes..
Can we save our selves? Yes, if we move quickly otherwise pray for a rash of stress related political heart attacks, a major recession, depression and/or world wide economic collapse.
If we wait this will drag for 10,20, 30 years or more.
How do we save ourselves?
Simple, we take it to the streets and protest. Americans must be hungry enough and willing to turn out by the "tens of thousands" or "hundreds of thousands".
Next time Conyers, or Kennedy walks to the White House with a petition they need 100,000 Americans walking behind them not 500.
All Americans must feel "our" pain.
Until then, nothing changes.
Teresa #51
Great letter. Well-said.
Hey Guys,
I was just thinking about when the Grand jury asked Bush to testify for them after 9/11. If I remember correctly, at first he refused to answer, then when he realized it did not look good, he agreed but under these conditions. All questions were to be submitted ahead of time in writing, the vice-president had to be present at the same time, he would not swear under oath, no notes were allowed to be taken, and any note pads were confiscated after the testimony.
Bush did that so that he would not go down the obvious way like Clinton almost did, by commiting perjury ( which if he testified before the grand jury as he testified to this country ) he would have. Or at least we would have had an official testimony from the president at the time about what was going on to check against. But he refused.
My question therefore is how do we get Bush to testify before a grand Jury about anything "UNDER OATH". Perhaps the downing street minutes will serve as a venue, or Rove going down for leaking the CIA agent, or any public statements that one can perjurize themselves.
It seems like the perfect coup d’ etat was carried out in this country, and the arrogance of Bush not to testify as the commander in chief after 9/11 proves it.
Heil Bush
If anyone blogs on John COnyers blog I need help. I have a user name and password with GreyMatter but it still wont let me post, any help?
I was just reading "Raw Story’s website and one of the headlines was "Thieves Plunder Ohio Democratic HQ" As Ohio’s GOP faces more scandals news, Dem Chairman’s computer is stolen"!!! "Ohio’s" ??? Gee, what a surprise!!!
Sarah,
What a suprise indeed. But what purpose would the computer serve? What was on the computer? Who took it?
Perhaps planting some evidence….
Charlie
Charlie #56 – same problem here. Haven’t tried since this morning.
Ewastud, thankyou for your thoughts on Carter and on Hamilton too. I’ve been wondering about him as well, since I thought he was well respected, but he too seems to have happily participatedin a whitewash.
I hope you are right about Carter. He’s a hero to me.
Actually, this does not surprise me. I would be surprised if they did publish anything that lent creedence to the notion the election was not legitimate in every way. Think of the anger, outrage and the question of legitimacy of the current administration and all the legal nightmares that would entail. I hope you folks don’t give up but it might be helpful for all of you to realize that only a congressional investigation, conducted by Democrats in control of Congress is ever going to find what we all know and go public with it, and even then, they might decide that no good could come of it and it would only shake our faith in the system, and bury it for years for historians to pick ove in the future. Right, I know, we have no faith in this system anymore, but they need to think we do. Just don’t get so damn depressed when stuff like this happens. It will keep happening until we take back the House and Senate and the White House. I say we, but I don’t necessarily mean Democrats. I keep thinking a Progressive Party candidate may show up in the next few years, like TR did from the Republican side in 1912. But Left Progressive this time. Although, if he were around today TR might have more in common with Democrats than Republicans.
Charles R Dubord Jr #58-Great questions! Evidently something was on that computer that they really wanted and/or needed!
Can we still needle JIMMO?
Paul,
I understand if you aren’t able to study Conyers report, which lays out the evidence on african-americans overwhelmingly.
But perhaps you can take the time to study this:
http://www.census.gov/populatio...g/cps2004.html
This is an official census survey (Government sponsored) that outlays by race, the actual turnout and how & so on. By analyzing it, you can in fact see that the turnout is not as the DoJ claimed: And this adds further credence to the fact they purged voters and supressed many thousands of blacks which can be seen as racial discrimination.
Even if the officials who did it, were black.
Doug E.
LGM #61,
Your expectations of the Democratic Party (and other parties) are, I believe, misplaced. They are no more willing to subject the elction system to close scrutiny than the Republicans.
They all rely on corporate finance. They have virtually all been involved in corruption and election tampering. Some better or worse than others? Definitely. Are there good apples among the rotten ones? Surely. But not enough to swing the Democratic Party (or any other party) to a place of commitment to scrutiny and reform.
Until this kind of reform takes place, it is unrealistic to expect the Democratic Party to be very different. Just look at what the DLC are saying these days. They are not proposing real alternatives to GOP policy on most issues.
We the people will have to lead this reform forward. We can’t expect it to be led by people elected within a corrupt system.
We have to stop seeing "The GOP" as "The Problem" and "The Democratic Party" as "The Solution". (And I recognize that LGM did not put it this way–I’m addressing others here.) Corporate/elite control of our political and election processes is the problem. Election and campaign finance reform must be part of the solution.
"Wonder if the Democrats are starting to wish — right about now — that they’d fought harder for every vote to be counted last November…"(Brad)
After four and a half years of trying to get election reform enacted–only to get HAVA opportunistically corrupted by entrenched pols–a group of women in Ann Arbor have just created an online petition designed to educate voters and pressure lawmakers.
Go online to http://www.wpactivists.org, click on Petitions, and sign the Pledge to support the Count Every Vote Act of 2005. You will directed to read the summary of this superbly crafted bill.
Sign the petition–or print it out and pass it around. We need to educate voters about election reform in order to get the politicians to pay attention.
The U S of A is the ONLY advanced democratic state that leaves elections in the control of partisan, even elected, officials. Canada, the countries of Europe, India [the world’s largest democracy] all run their elections with non-partisan commissions that govern both the elections and the districting. And they are operated at the national level, with regional and local offices. India had, as its goal, a national electors database in five years; they completed the project in three. The American system is the WORST in the world because it is [1] locally controlled and [2] partisan controlled. Elections in the U S of A, according to U N analysts, are the LEAST reliable of the advanced democracies.
R E D, the Count Every Vote Act bans participation in election campaigns by election officials and the owners and managers of contracting agencies–e.g. Diebold. We plan to distribute the Pledge at public forums to publicize this needed reform–most Michigan voters haven’t a clue about the SOS issue.
Ohio’s Blackwell and Florida’s Harris made this scandalous state of affairs visible. Michigan’s SOS, Terri Lyn Land, was co-chair of the state’s Re-Elect Bush committee . She and her GOP pals are busily subverting HAVA to reduce non-GOP votes in this formerly liberal state.
PS: Bravo Teresa! Columbus OH was my home town. The state was corrupt even in my time many years ago.
Marcia #66
The petition function of the website is great. An excellent website tool.
While the petition text states that the signer has read the proposed bill, I did not see a link to the full text of the bill, only an abstract. If you want someone to sign saying they’ve read the bill, the website should make it easy for them to access it.
I don’t share your enthusiasm about the Clinton Senate bill and the corresponding House bill to which the petition refers. It avoids addressing the most important issues and if it passes it will not result in election reform of the kind that will make a difference.
Here are a few examples to support my point of view:
1) It is urgent that all our votes be county BY HAND at precinct level. Without a manual count of all ballots in every election we have nothing. It has been demonstrated that the tabulating (counting) computers are simple to hack. A simple one-person job in many cases. It has also been demonstrated in both Ohio and New Hampshire that recounts of a portion of the ballot offer no protection of the democratic process. (In NH there was no custody chain of the ballots, so the ballots from the random precincts had multiple opportunities for being fiddled before the recount; in Ohio the precincts were not chosen at random and were counted ahead of time behind closed doors.) VVAT is meaningless unless the paper ballots are counted by hand at each election, ideally in the local precinct immediately at the close of the election, in full public view.
2) This bill says nothing about guaranteeing access to the paper ballots! Many state laws make it virtually impossible to get your hands on the paper ballots to use them for a recount. (E.g., the state laws place so many restrictions on the ballots it’s impossible to get access to them. Such as, only in "tight" elections–as if a hacked election is always going to look like a tight election. Or only if requested within a certain time frame–but then they withhold the information needed to establish the need for such a recount until after the deadline has passed. Or they do like Michigan and require $125,000–half paid up front–just to "look" for a simple FOIA request that some states comply with for free or for a few hundred dollars. In this way election boards restrict access to the paper ballots. Most "recounts" mean just putting the ballots through the scanner/tabulator again. This is not a meaningful recount.)
3) States that do mandate use of the paper ballots for a recount blatantly ignore their own laws and are not punished (e.g. Ohio). Ditto for other election laws. If there is no enforcement then what’s the point?
4) Our votes should never be counted by private companies.
5) The existing voting machine certification system is a scam of the highest order. Machines with wide-open vulnerabilities have been certified. Vendors who have broken the law are still certified. Major security vulnerabilities are not considered at all in the certification process. Vendors who use non-certified software are not de-certified or punished.
6) We have to get corporate money out of politics and out of elections. This is perhaps the most important election reform that is needed. This bill does nothing to address this fundamental problem.
The Clinton Senate bill is merely whitewashing the election reform process. It is only window dressing. It will not give any more security to our elections than the current broken system.
Michigan has the most obstructive approach to FOIA requests of any other state–worse than Ohio or Florida. I hope your group of smart, progressive women will address this issue. If they are not willing to do so, then you should start asking yourself why.
Please use your group’s intelligence and commitment to press for election reforms that will make a difference. The proposed legislation referred to in the petition has so many loopholes it is meaningless. It is almost worse than the status quo, because it misleads people into thinking that it offers genuine solutions when it actually does no such thing. This bill only serves to perpetuate the current system and will just lead to more fraudulent elections.
John Tanner pisses in the face of America and craps on the citizens of Ohio with his whitewash of the Ohio election of 2004. There is no justice in America if this is the kind of distorted effluent the Department of "Justice" projectile vomits back on the honest and determined patriot voters of Ohio who stood in the rain for hours only to have their votes not be counted. Mr. Tanner wasn’t here to see our election in Ohio, nor do I believe he is in the least bit interested in the truth, or in justice. I, and thousands of other Ohio voters, are weary to the bone of being coerced into this game of "The Truth Is What We Say it Is!" We already know it is just the twisted regurgitant the GOP is dumping on the American people. I am sickened by the smell. We don’t, and won’t swallow it.
Paper, Not Vapor
Demand Hand-Counted Paper Ballots!
Victoria #70 –
Right on!!!
Diebold Accounting Mistake–SEC stuff may be a biggie
The shit is about to hit the fan; revelations are coming out about potential investigations. See here to understand the significance (such as vulnerabilities related to the Sarbanes-Oxley Act).
Bolt down the hatches, we may be in for quite a ride.
Catherine #72 – I’m actually allowing myself to feel excited about this! WooHoo!! BBV report coming out tomorrow!! Thank you for all the work you’ve been doing Catherine! Hatches securely fastened! And thank you for #69 as well!
Jen #73
Excited–me too! I was really hoping to see this report before going to bed–it’s already July 4th over here!
Guess I’ll just have to wait till morning. I wonder if they’ll have a press conference.
Jen –more on #73
Since you mentioned the 3-letter word I’m curious to see if it’ll bring out the trolls. I inadvertently stumbled across a certain kind of monitoring, and then it was independently confirmed by the subject herslef. (That there is monitoring for certain names and letter combinations, with not-so-nice consequences.)
I had started referring to "Harris" just for equality (in that I’d refer to everyone by their last name, so as not to give too much familiarity or friendliness to anyone since it could be biased). Then I observed that when I used Harris, I never got attacked. But when I used full names or organizational names, the trolls would come out.
On another board I referred to how I’d been attacked here on this blog a couple of weeks ago, and Harris posted back about the monitoring for certain full names and organisational names. Without realizing it I had already gotten verification of this.
This is real hardball, and it is not nice at all to see it up close. This shows that very big vested interests are feeling very threatened to have something so organzed going on.
But once the genie is out of the bottle it will be impossible to put it back in. Harris spoke today about this issue being very near the crucial "tipping point", and that she expects major changes within the next six months or not much more. It feels like we are near a crucial turning point, and all the bloggers here are playing a big part in that.
Nice, Brad gives into a PC correct commenter by deleteing my messages but allows a constant freeper troll to canvas his blog spreading more of the fascist propaganda bullshit we deal with everyday from the MSM.
Brad, There is no wonder this country has sunk to the depths it has. There is absolutely NO strong opposing voice to shut these fascist bastards down. Continue to play the typical limp dick Democratic leadership message and attitude and expect no more than we have today.
Limp Dick….an apt name to be sure!
…Catherine a #65,
I agree with what you say. I should have been more clear about making the distinction between the American people who identify themselves as Democrats, and the party leadership and buraeucracy itself. Particularly the DLC, it’s a joke. Even if a Progressive, or other third party candidate, has to run as a Democrat, in stealth Many of the voters who these Progressive third party candidates ideas will resonate with will identify to a great degree with the Democratic party and it’s ideals. This is not to suggest that Independents and Republicans, disillusioned or otherwise, won’t be included. I expect to see many more Independents and Republicans who will vote against the status quo in future elections as long as there are candidates worth voting for.
WTF,
I understand you frustration but you must understand that Brad has his reasons for doing what he has does, and Jimmo is hardly important. He’s not worth the trouble. He makes the rest of us look so sensible, intelligent and articulate by comparison.
When is the bushit going to stop! IMPEACHBUSH.org is putting together a rally in DC on Sept 24th, we need to shut down DC to make them listen and not just one day, it’s got to be till they fix it! Be there is you can!
Catherine A, post #69, commenting on Women Progressive Activists Pledge to support The Coount Every Vote Act said:
"I don’t share your enthusiasm about the Clinton Senate bill and the corresponding House bill to which the petition refers. It avoids addressing the most important issues and if it passes it will not result in election reform of the kind that will make a difference. "
She also chided that "I did not see a link to the full text of the bill…" Wrong. The full text of S450 (same as the House bill except for appropriations section) is linked at the top of our summary, via the Thomas search engine.
Catherine, with respect for your dedication, I think you are wrong about this bill and our Pledge.
Your sweeping assertion that the Clinton/Boxer bill is a "whitewash" does a disservice to the cause of clean elections that we both endorse. Robert Kilbrick, legislative analyst for Verified Voting Org concedes that "These bills (H 939-S450) have good requirements for VVPRs and recounts" Verified Voting strongly endorses Rush Holt’s narrowly focused bill, H 550. While I also like and support his bill, we WPA’s chose the Count Every Vote Act because it is much more comprehensive, and deals with extremely serious issues such as setting minimum standards for poll wait times, training of poll workers, and banning political activities by election officials and the owners of voting machine companies. Moreover, the house version plugs in funding for the changes it mandates.
I appeal to you to read the Count Every Vote Act carefully, bearing in mind the constitutional limits on federal level legislation regarding the exact processes by which states accomplish desired reforms. We intend to use our Pledge and the Count Every Vote Act for educating voters about the changes needed in our election system, emphasizing the many state level problems that threaten voting integrity, unbeknownst to most voters. For example, Michigan’s SOS uses HAVA as an excuse to issue unnecessarily complicated, confusing, and contradictory regulations, thus guaranteeing election day disasters.
We’re all in this together. Good legislation deserves support. Sign the pledge http:www.wpactivists.org
🙂
Marcia,
I agree that the Senate bill you support is better than other bills. And I agree that this Senate bill is better than nothing.
I disagree with you, however, that this bill will make a difference–because it doesn’t address any of the issues I mentioned in #79 above. Since it won’t make any difference I called it a "whitewash." Window dressing is not the same as true election reform. IT IS POINTLESS TO HAVE PAPER BALLOTS IF THOSE BALLOTS WILL NOT BE USED FOR COUNTING.
Existing state election laws and federal certificiation guidelines for election equipment are not being followed. Why do you expect that adding a few additional regulations to the existing ones will suddenly make everyone compliant? Especially when none of the underlying problems are not being addressed.
I’m disappointed you didn’t respond to any of the concerns I raised.
"Existing state elections laws and federal certification guidelines…are not being followed…"
This is partly true–and partly because HAVA was so mangled and toothless by the time it passed that state SOS’s are able to assign definitions that were not included (or intended) in the federal law.
Getting the loopholes plugged and teeth installed in federal election reform legislation requires a major effort from all election reformers. But to assume, as you do, that the effort is worthless because current regs are not being followed, takes us into a place where all efforts are hopeless.
Your concerns are addressed in S450–it seems, however, that you are determined that only one solution–yours–is the answer.
pLEASE,YOU FIND YOUR PROPAGANDA MASTER IS FLABERGASTED,GEE,WHAT A SUPPRISE,THERE WAS NO WHITE WASH,JUST LIKE YOU’R GOING TO CRY FOUL,WHEN THEY SAY,DOWNING STREET IS OLD NON RELITIVE NEWS,YOU PEOPLE SEEM TO CRY FOUL AT EVERYTHING BUSH DOES BUT THEN WHEN YOU ARE PROVEN WRONG,YOU WHINE,’WHITEWASH,COVER,JUST TWO WEEKS AGO YOU WERE SAYING HOW THIS INVESTAGATION WOULD FIND THE SMOKING GUN,THEN IT DOESNT AND YOU WHINE,HOW ABOUT ANY OF YOUR ALLAGATIONS,ALL UN PROVEN,WHICH YOU WILL SOON CALL WHITEWASHED,WHEN THE TRUTH COMES OUT
WHAT WERE YOU SAYING ABOUT DOWNING STREET?’I CANT HEAR YOU"
BUT KEEP UP THE BASHING WITH YOUR LIES,AND YOUR FOUL LANGUAGE AND DISGUSTING NON AMERICAN VIEWS,DEMOCRATS ARE LEAVING IN DROVES,EVEN HILLERYS MOVE TO THE CENTER WILL NOT HELP,
AND BRAD HOW DOES THE CROW TASTE??
BRAD YOU HAVE THE ADUSSITY TO CLAIM THEIR DEMOCRATIC PLANTS IN Franklin County’s "bi-partisan" Board of Election THAT IS THEY ARE DEMOCRATS IN NAME ONLY,WHILE REALLY VOTING REPUBLICAN,HOWEVER BRAD YOU FAIL TO NAME NAMES,WHY IS THAT BRAD??BECAUSE YOU ARE LIEING?POST THEIR NAMES BRAD,SO WE ALL KNOW WHO THESE TURN COAT TRADEROUS DEMOCRATS ARE,I DARE YOU BRAD POST THEIR NAMES,YOU CAN’T AND WON’T,BECAUSE YOU ARE SPOUTING PROPAGANDA,LIKE YOU AND MR.CONYERS ALWAYS DO.YOUR TATIC ALLOWS YOU TO MAKE A BOGUS STATEMENT AND NOT HAVE TO STAND BEHIND IT WITH ANY VALIDITY,
SHAME ON YOU BR4AD
#83 Brad its been two days now,no names no answer to coment to #83,It should not take this long,unless of course,you have not recieced your talking points,on how to answer this question?
That’s the problem,you guys get your talking points,on what to say,but they never give you,the ability to answer the bogas statements you make,so if you need a couple more days to get in touch with Conyers or your Handlers,to answer the questions,be my guest.Not for me,but it may be advantagous for you to answer,as i am sure others may be looking for a responce.
US senator of Pennyslvania Evan Bayh was on c-span,whwere he had to correct this little old lady scared to death by you people,she said,"she wanted to move to Victoria or some other country,because of how Bush stole both Elections, Evan Bayh told her the Elections were NOT stolen by the REPUBLICANS
,he said their were problems but they were not linked to the Republicans,,And he told her Even JOHN DEAN agrees on that issue,and you know he is no friend of Republicans
SO WHAT DO YOU LEFT WING FRINGERS HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT, LETS HAVE SOME ANSWERS PEOPLE!!!!!!
Dean was referring to, Kelo v. The City of New London, which allows local governments to forcibly acquire private property in order to pad their tax bases, was ascribed to by the court’s liberal coalition of Justices; John Paul Stevens, David Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer. The only “conservative” that signed on to this unconstitutional ruling was Justice Anthony Kennedy
The American Center for Voting Rights found that fraud occured in 16 states.
ACVR is a non-partisan, non-profit organization that neither supports nor endorses any political party or candidate.
The most incredible and egregious findings were in Washington State.
After losing both the original count and a subsequent machine recount to Republican Dino Rossi, Democrat Christine Gregoire won a hand recount and was certified as winner of the 2004 Washington gubernatorial election by 129 votes out of more than 2.8 million cast. (298) The ensuing litigation to determine the actual result of the election uncovered clear evidence of vote fraud and irregularities that cast serious doubt upon the validity of a number of votes far exceeding Gregoire’s margin of victory. Illegal votes and election irregularities may have determined the winner of the 2004 gubernatorial race in the state of Washington.
Read about how close The Democrats came to stealing this election . . . .
Vote Fraud And Irregularities In Washington
http://www.ac4vr.com/reports/07...ashington.html
After losing both the original count and a subsequent machine recount to Republican Dino Rossi, Democrat Christine Gregoire won a hand recount and was certified as winner of the 2004 Washington gubernatorial election by 129 votes out of more than 2.8 million cast. (298) The ensuing litigation to determine the actual result of the election uncovered clear evidence of vote fraud and irregularities that cast serious doubt upon the validity of a number of votes far exceeding Gregoire’s margin of victory. Illegal votes and election irregularities may have determined the winner of the 2004 gubernatorial race in the state of Washington.
In the months leading up to the election contest trial brought by Rossi, election management problems in Washington continued to come to light. In March, 95 uncounted absentee ballots were found in King County’s election warehouse. (299) Pierce County officials found another 64 such uncounted absentees. (300) King County Elections Director Dean Logan said under oath that he couldn’t be sure if the election results were accurate within 129 votes – Gregoire’s margin of victory:
“‘The question is, do you know whether the returns in King County were accurate within 129 votes?’ GOP attorney Rob Maguire asked Logan on page 225 of the 476-page deposition transcript, released Monday night by Rossi’s office. ‘No, I do not,’ Logan replied.” (301)
The debate in Washington after the November election and recounts was not about whether illegal votes were cast on Election Day. Both sides agreed that they were, as Democrats and Republicans submitted competing lists of hundreds of illegal felon voters. (302) The debate instead centered on whether an equitable method of determining if such illegal votes adversely affected one candidate over the other existed, and if so, whether a new election was in order.
In his June 6 decision to uphold Gregoire’s election as governor, Chelan County Superior Court Judge John Bridges recognized that more than 1,000 illegal and fraudulent votes were cast in an election decided by a mere 133 votes (the judge deducted four felon votes from Rossi’s total). Judge Bridges found the following illegal and fraudulent votes in the 2004 Washington gubernatorial race:
A total of 1,678 illegal votes cast in the 2004 general election.
1,401 votes cast by felons whose voting rights had not been restored.
19 votes cast by deceased voters.
6 votes cast by people voting more than once.
252 votes cast in King and Pierce counties for which “there could not be found a registered voter through crediting.” (303)
While Judge Bridges’ decision recognized the presence of large-scale illegal and fraudulent voting in the November election, he rejected the method by which Rossi’s expert witnesses proposed to account for the illegal votes. Judge Bridges further ruled that the “judiciary should exercise restraint in interfering with the elective process,” and that “unless an election is clearly invalid, when the people have spoken their verdict should not be disturbed by the courts.” Thus Bridges upheld the election not because there was no significant illegal and fraudulent voting, but because he did not believe it was the judiciary’s role to overturn the election, given the evidence before him. (304)