READER COMMENTS ON
"More on Alleged Traitor Karl Rove..."
(52 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
said on 7/3/2005 @ 1:35 pm PT...
As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
john h. higgins
said on 7/3/2005 @ 1:37 pm PT...
I have always believed it was Rove who planned, initiated, and was the direct link in the exposure of Plame to Novak. At that time they were willing to do anything to justify their march to war with Iraq and absolutely anything to discredit or intimidate any who disagreed with thier plan.
I actually think they were stupidly thinking it wasn't a crime. After all she was walking/driving in and out of Langly every day. Rove's lawyer's statement that he didn't "knowingly" expose Plame is interesting just because of his insertion of the word "Knowingly". So is it a crime if he did it "Unknowingly"?
Bush and Co. well hem and haw their way through this one.....ignoring it for the most part, trying to replace it on the front pages with other distractions, and will say they can't comment due to a federal investigation. In this they hope it will all go away. And it may.
But if it is proved that Rove was directly involved or indirectly by giving the authorization to the leak, he should be arrested, bailed out, suspended from his position until indictment, and tried for treason if indicted. If convicted he should spend many years behind bars. His conviction should carry with it the proviso and warning to Bush and any future president, that his pardon will not be acceptable.
If Rove won't fall on his sword for Bush and Cheney....or even if he will, the investigation should continue and be expanded to aprehend all those involved in this crime. If Bush and Cheney knew.....they go too.
This is a more severe misuse of power and position than even the Watergate breakin and attempted coverup.
Let's get all these criminals in a room and show them to the public for what they are.....cowards all. jh
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
said on 7/3/2005 @ 1:39 pm PT...
I submitted a comment for each of the Lawrence O'Donnel posts at Huffingtonpost. My second one didn't make the cut.
I've been pounding him about the reason for his silence after knowing this for months, and after the fact that the courts were already going to get to the bottom of this with his help or not. I can appreciate O'Donnel for his oppenness about the issue. But to be honest, this train was already rolling without him.
Apparently, the knowledge about Rove being the leaker was known for months by circles within "journalism".
And I pose the question. What else do they know, but are keeping silent on?
O'Donnel would have gotten much respect from me if he came out with this info months ago.
No points for hopping on the band-wagon as far as I'm concerned.
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
said on 7/3/2005 @ 1:51 pm PT...
Let's just put this in perspective, folks.
This is only part of a bigger story.
In my humble opinion, the Downing Street Memos (minutes) is what should be at the center of our attention.
These document, if found to be true, provide smoking gun evidence towards the impeachment of Bush and co.
This story is also related to the Niger Uranium forgery story, however. Hopefully that story gets more exposure thanks to this development.
Don't forget, though: all roads still lead to the "lying about war" issue.
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
said on 7/3/2005 @ 2:11 pm PT...
I agree with #3--I don't think Mr. O'Donnel would have said anything if he had any doubt that the "leaker" is Karl Rove. He had nothing to lose and everything to gain. Check out The Daily Kos for lots more information and speculation. If nothing else it's heartening to read!
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
said on 7/3/2005 @ 2:15 pm PT...
If I remember correctly, George Bush publicly demanded that his "staff" immediately tell him if they were the source of the leak. If Karl Rove complied with his boss' demand and admitted he was the source---and Bush did not inform the special investigator of his knowledge, then George Bush would be guilty of obstruction of justice. Isn't that an impeachable offense?
Wouldn't it be funny if Kark Rove brought down George Bush? Sometimes there really is justice in the world even by a circuitous route.
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
said on 7/3/2005 @ 2:25 pm PT...
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
said on 7/3/2005 @ 3:22 pm PT...
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
said on 7/3/2005 @ 3:24 pm PT...
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
said on 7/3/2005 @ 3:57 pm PT...
Super #9 --
I have suspected all along that miller's propaganda campaign in the ny times was coming from rove. Thanks for the hopeful link!
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
said on 7/3/2005 @ 4:07 pm PT...
Amazing to have a story like this and to have such a timid response from the MSM. Does Rove threaten all these media people with their life if they cross him?
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
said on 7/3/2005 @ 4:12 pm PT...
One thing I don't understand about the people who talk about rove and his crimes... calling him a genius and shit. How many people have you heard say that?
How can you attribute intelligence to the acts of a lifelong slimebag criminal? Why in the hell do people glorify the dirty tricks then worship the so-called "genius" behind them?
Sorry, I don't get it. The man is incredibly stupid. The fools licking his boots in admiration are sick and wrong.
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
said on 7/3/2005 @ 4:19 pm PT...
Very interesting. Particularly the Kelly connection. Kelly's death (and the events leading up to it and after it) were covered very prominently on this side of the pond. Kelly's "suicide" never seemed credible to me, even if he was under pressure. It seemed more like a Lemme-esque sequence of events.
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
said on 7/3/2005 @ 4:31 pm PT...
Hi, Torqued #12 - Yes, exactly!
Rove cannot plead that he "didn't know it was a crime to out a CIA agent". That would be like a police officer, driving drunk, over the speed limit, running over someone, driving off and leaving them for dead, and saying he didn't know it was a crime.
Come to think of it, everything Rove, Bush and the ROGUE ADMINISTRATION has done amounts to a crime.
I agree with everyone above. Let's get them into the court room and into jail, and ensure they can never repeat the carnage they have created again!
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
said on 7/3/2005 @ 4:32 pm PT...
Dayum Supersoling! Curioser and curioser indeed...
So does anyone think there are credible investigators looking into this stuff or are the investigative committees so stacked with crooks it'll be explained away and the corporate mainstream media will dish out what they're told to serve?
Sounds like Judith would be better off serving time for not releasing a sources name than what could actually hit her if "real" investigations are going on.
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
said on 7/3/2005 @ 4:45 pm PT...
Now, we will see if Bush operatives are above the law, and we aren't.
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
said on 7/3/2005 @ 4:58 pm PT...
supersoling #9 Great article, very interesting twist .
Is the point that Judith Miller may have outed Dr. Kelly for what he knew and/or was about to tell?
That he was murdered because of her direct long standing connections to both Rove and Bush ?
That she played on both sides of the fence?
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
said on 7/3/2005 @ 5:08 pm PT...
Another interesting article:
Let's get on with the Novak/Plame case
The secrets in the Valerie Plame outing case may finally be coming to light. As they do, here are some questions that need answering.
By Barry Sussman
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 7/3/2005 @ 5:12 pm PT...
The most important thing for all of us is that we stay on top of this story, and not be distracted by any of the following:
1) Other stories
2) Trolls telling us it doesn't matter, or that we're the problem
3) Mainstream media silence or hesitation
4) Legal uncertainties (there's plenty of time to work them out
5) Talk shows that try to change the subject
If Karl Rove committed a crime, he will go to jail. That's all there is to it. Stay the course. Don't let anything distract us. Nothing.
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
said on 7/3/2005 @ 5:49 pm PT...
Rove is no X-man, there is nothing that he holds giving him supernatural protection from the laws of physics or the state. As the details outlining him as the Plame-leak source are revealed, he WILL be held accountable for his actions - including jail time. Having a history of committing derogatory, disceptive and criminal acts does not grant him some mystical ability to make all his illegal actions invisible to investigators or prosecutors. Ignore the "false prophets" who keep saying "yeah, he'll him & haw his way out". They know nothing and if they are so psychic then why don't ever post any dam horoscopes. I'm a gemini.
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
said on 7/3/2005 @ 5:57 pm PT...
Hi, Sojo #20 - In the modus operandi of the "rove/bush culture", who call BLACK "WHITE", and WHITE "BLACK", it is believable that rove will call CRIMES "NON CRIMES" and "NON CRIMES" CRIMES (e.g., those who decry the assault on Iraq, the assault on democracy, the assault on the environment are "traitors" of America, "haters" of the troops, "sore losers"). Yes, rove will try to "bushit" out of it. He only gets away with what America lets him get away with!
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
said on 7/3/2005 @ 6:19 pm PT...
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
said on 7/3/2005 @ 6:27 pm PT...
they will whitewash it under a "homeland security lockdown" but I hope somebody makes him their "bitch" if he does time.
Hope springs eternal.
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
said on 7/3/2005 @ 6:54 pm PT...
I wondered when you would get around to this story about my favorite person I love to hate.
COMMENT #25 [Permalink]
said on 7/3/2005 @ 7:09 pm PT...
If he does go (miracle of miracles), you can bet it will be to a Camp Stub Muffin instead of to the tropics.
COMMENT #26 [Permalink]
said on 7/3/2005 @ 9:02 pm PT...
More on the damage the Plame leak has done to CIA intelligence-gathering ability, via dKos.
COMMENT #27 [Permalink]
said on 7/3/2005 @ 10:50 pm PT...
I read a cool article on MSNBC Newsweek that details some of the back story to the White House leak of CIA operative Valerie Plame. Here is a list of the most pertinent details:
1) The Time reporter Mathew Cooper aswell as an NY Times journalist is refusing to testify inspite of the decision to hand over the documents pertaining to the investigation by Time Inc. editor in chief Norman Pearlstine. They potentially face a jail sentence.
2) The ascribed motivation for the leak, which I didn't fully grasp beforehand, was to undermine the credibility of Joseph Wilson's trip to Niger. Plame was based there, and it was implied that her nepotism lead to Wilson's employ, and in turn, damages the validity of his findings. His findings were that there was no evidence to support the assertion that Iraq purchased enriched Uranium from Niger.
3) It seems that Bob Novak has made some kind of deal with Special Council Fitzgerald, as he is not being aggressively held to account like the Time and NY TImes reporters are. This is very strange.
4) Mathew Cooper has divulged that one of his sources was a top aide to Dick Cheney. He provided this information when said aide gave him permission to do so.
5) Rove's interaction with Cooper took place almost a week before the Novak article outed Plame.
6) Rove's lawyer, Robert Luskin has made two interesting statements about what Rove did not say to Cooper in his coversation. Rove "never knowingly disclosed classified information" and "he did not tell any reporter that Valerie Plame worked for the CIA," according to the Newsweek article. The first statement implies that Rove did pass on classfied information, but just wasn't aware that he was doing so. The second implies that Rove DID discuss Valerie Plame with Cooper but simply didn't make reference to the fact that she was a CIA operative.
My assessment of this would be that Rove told Cooper that Valerie Plame worked in Niger and got Wilson, her husband, the job there. This is a pretty wild estimation, but I feel pretty confident this is the case.
7) According the Newsweek, a couple of days after Novak's column was published, Rove called Chris Mathews and told him that Wilson's wife was "fair game." OUCH!!!
The problem is that the story is complicated, the stakes are difficult to condense into a soundbite, and the extent to which the story will become a topic of conversation amongst the general public is difficult to assess. A lot of evidence is leading towards serious misconduct by the White House senior political advisor. I don't understand why this isn't a bigger story. It's obviously because most news organisations are treading very carefully because of the severity of the implications.
COMMENT #28 [Permalink]
said on 7/4/2005 @ 1:24 am PT...
COMMENT #29 [Permalink]
said on 7/4/2005 @ 1:38 am PT...
COMMENT #30 [Permalink]
said on 7/4/2005 @ 2:24 am PT...
I think the whole damn whitehouse needs major cleaning. Once this is done, our constitutional republic must be set in stone. Death to the NWO!
COMMENT #31 [Permalink]
said on 7/4/2005 @ 12:58 pm PT...
COMMENT #32 [Permalink]
said on 7/4/2005 @ 1:53 pm PT...
I'm hoping Rove doesn't slip away again on this way. Also, Miller's and Cooper's claim to confidentiality is bull. When this info was leaked to them, a crime was committed, and they are the accomplices to that crime. They can't claim journalistic privileges at the same time they are witness, or even accomplices to a crime. When journalists "protect" their sources, they are protecting them from malice and retribution. In this case, it is not malice and retribution that seeks the identity of the leaker, it is justice.
COMMENT #33 [Permalink]
said on 7/4/2005 @ 8:10 pm PT...
From what I'm reading, and in trying hard to stay neutral until more decisive evidence is presented, I'm still having a hard time with any suggestion that the White House or Bush Administration is innocent of wrong doing.
We already know that evidence was to be "fixed" around the Iraq war policy. Bush wanted to invade Iraq as far back as 1999 according to his own words. (I can source that if someone doubts it, but don't feel like opening yet another window at the moment to search it.) We have documentation that has recently been disclosed regarding his desire to go to war, oust Saddam, free the people, etc, but that points out that the only way to do so that would be politically acceptable would be through claims of WMD.
"Even though I'm a tranquil guy now at this stage of my life, I have nothing but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the name of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious of traitors." - George Herbert Walker Bush, 1999”
COMMENT #34 [Permalink]
said on 7/5/2005 @ 5:19 am PT...
A list of questions for "Mr. President"
In a formalized way, as well branded and marketed as was the lead up to War, I propose that a list of questions that most American's would like to hear the answers to be drawn up, "packaged" and promoted to the media, along with a demand that these questions be asked. It's not as important that they be answered as it is that they be asked. If necessary, a cash reward might be offered to any journalist who asks any one of these questions at a formal press conference with the President.
Let's put together a list of questions that we will demand the media ask of the President in a formal news conference setting such as:
"Mr. President, you stated on two separate occassions that you actually saw the first aircraft fly into the first tower on the morning of 9/11 prior to entering the class room at the elementary school...you said that you saw it on TV...can you please explain on what Television set you saw that aircraft hit the first tower?"
Or how about this:
"Mr. President, Donald Rumsfeld was quoted as saying that flight 93 in Pennsylvania was actually SHOT DOWN, can you just give us a simple yes or no answer, was an order given to shoot down flight 93?"
Aren't there some questions that we deserve to know the answers to?
Isn't it time that we not only demand that the media ask tough questions, but provide them with a list of the questions that require answers?
Let's formalize an effort to craft a list of questions that require answers, and DEMAND that the MSM ask these questions, or face a boycott. Let's hit the MSM in their wallets if they continue to fail to serve the public good.
Shaming the media into doing their jobs is what this web site is all about. It should be the primary focus of all our efforts. The MSM has the ability to get to the truth of these matters. They just need to understand that it is time to choose sides in this fight to take our country back, and they will be judged by their actions.
Judy Miller is a proven co-conspirator with Rove. It's time for those who do not yet have one foot in prison to choose sides. Put the pressure on these journalists to choose sides...and let them understand the consequences if they fail to ask the questions that at the very least, deserve to be asked.
Daring to ask tough questions is their job. Let's remind them who the ultimate boss is. It should not require angry mobs with pitchforks and torches descending on the headquarters of the Washington Post just to get reporters to start asking the questions that WE THE PEOPLE want answers to.
COMMENT #35 [Permalink]
said on 7/5/2005 @ 10:20 am PT...
#27, it's not that complicated...he broke the law and should go to jail....period and if anyone for a minute believes that bushit, cheney and rice didn't know they are delusional! But we all know this batch of criminals will attempt to change the law quickly! Imagine they can make Terri Schiavo laws, but can't
COMMENT #36 [Permalink]
said on 7/5/2005 @ 10:35 am PT...
"Isn't it time that we not only demand that the media ask tough questions, but provide them with a list of the questions that require answers?
Let's formalize an effort to craft a list of questions that require answers, and DEMAND that the MSM ask these questions, or face a boycott. Let's hit the MSM in their wallets if they continue to fail to serve the public good.
Shaming the media into doing their jobs is what this web site is all about. It should be the primary focus of all our efforts. The MSM has the ability to get to the truth of these matters. They just need to understand that it is time to choose sides in this fight to take our country back, and they will be judged by their actions."
#34....I'm with you! Let's get the questions to every news org and let them know that the ones that don't ask will be boycotted to include their 'prime time shows' (even if it hurts people) and the one that does will be rewarded dedicated viewers!
COMMENT #37 [Permalink]
said on 7/5/2005 @ 2:25 pm PT...
Ada - check out this site:
Nieman's Watchdog - Questions the Press Should Ask
Why Watchdog? And why questions?
Questions the press should ask.
Great questions are a key to great journalism. But often, in the press of deadlines, the flood of raw information, manipulated news, deliberate misinformation and just plain junk, great questions are hard to develop. Reporters and editors need to know what's happening, why it happened, who's involved, who's affected and what happens next.
The premise of watchdog journalism is that the press is a surrogate for the public, asking probing, penetrating questions at every level, from the town council to the state house to the White House, as well as in corporate and professional offices, in union halls, on university campuses and in religious organizations that seek to influence governmental actions.
The goal of watchdog journalism is to see that people in power provide information the public should have.
The Nieman Watchdog Journalism Project grows from this premise and this goal: to help the press ask penetrating questions, critical questions, questions that matter, questions not yet asked about today's news. NiemanWatchdog.org seeks to encourage more informed reporting by putting journalists in contact with authorities who can suggest appropriate, probing questions and who can serve as resources.
(**continued under tab "about us" on Neiman Watchdog site**.)
COMMENT #38 [Permalink]
said on 7/5/2005 @ 3:13 pm PT...
COMMENT #39 [Permalink]
said on 7/5/2005 @ 4:57 pm PT...
Beautiful! Conyers says "Rove must explain role in CIA outing or resign"
Why "OR"? He should do BOTH!
COMMENT #40 [Permalink]
said on 7/5/2005 @ 5:01 pm PT...
COMMENT #41 [Permalink]
said on 7/5/2005 @ 5:25 pm PT...
The leaker was dick cheney. karl roverer exploited the leak criminally as well but the original perp was dick cheney. I'd rather see the first offender going down first. Then roverer. Then follow the trails linking these criminals to everything else that went down since they were old enough to be potty trained.
COMMENT #42 [Permalink]
said on 7/5/2005 @ 6:15 pm PT...
I'm pretty much of the same mind, Torqued #41.
COMMENT #43 [Permalink]
said on 7/5/2005 @ 7:02 pm PT...
I say we apply the Bush/Rumsfeld method to this problem. We invade Washington, round up all the members of the current regime, ship 'em off to a prison camp on an island, where we abuse, torture and humiliate 'em for years on end until somebody fesses up!
COMMENT #44 [Permalink]
said on 7/5/2005 @ 7:19 pm PT...
As we all concluded a long time ago, the Bushites are dangerous fools...dangerous because they are fools drunk with power...all the undercover CIA agents around the world should be mad as hell with the Bushites and be willing to ensure they go to jail...some CIA agents or many, could end up dead...for those Ameri,cans who thought it would be amusing to have a fool for a president, are you still laughing? A fool will only hang around with other fools, because a fool isn't smart enough to surround himself with smart or smarter people. Oh, when will this torture end??
COMMENT #45 [Permalink]
said on 7/5/2005 @ 7:23 pm PT...
COMMENT #46 [Permalink]
said on 7/5/2005 @ 8:57 pm PT...
DSM Flashback --
A former Pakistani diplomat has told the BBC that the US was planning military action against Osama Bin Laden and the Taleban even before last week's attacks.
Niaz Naik, a former Pakistani Foreign Secretary, was told by senior American officials in mid-July that military action against Afghanistan would go ahead by the middle of October.
Russian soldiers in Tajikistan
Russian troops were on standby
Mr Naik said US officials told him of the plan at a UN-sponsored international contact group on Afghanistan which took place in Berlin.
Mr Naik told the BBC that at the meeting the US representatives told him that unless Bin Laden was handed over swiftly America would take military action to kill or capture both Bin Laden and the Taleban leader, Mullah Omar. [More]
(Washington, DC) Judicial Watch, the public interest group that investigates and prosecutes government corruption and abuse, said today that documents turned over by the Commerce Department, under court order as a result of Judicial Watch’s Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit concerning the activities of the Cheney Energy Task Force, contain a map of Iraqi oilfields, pipelines, refineries and terminals, as well as 2 charts detailing Iraqi oil and gas projects, and “Foreign Suitors for Iraqi Oilfield Contracts.” The documents, which are dated March 2001 [...] [More]
More Iraq pre-9/11
“From the very beginning, there was a conviction, that Saddam Hussein was a bad person and that he needed to go,” says O’Neill, who adds that going after Saddam was topic "A" 10 days after the inauguration - eight months before Sept. 11.
“From the very first instance, it was about Iraq. It was about what we can do to change this regime,” says Suskind. “Day one, these things were laid and sealed.” [More]
More Iraq pre-9/11
It is no wonder that Cheney's choice as the new Director of Central Intelligence (DCI) is Rep. Porter Goss (R-Fla.). Goss not only presided over a vicious partisan coverup of the Iraq pre-war intelligence fraud—a fraud run out of Cheney's office—through his position as chairman of the House Select Committee on Intelligence. Goss's own career as a 1960s-era Central Intelligence Agency Clandestine Service officer is a throwback to the pre-Church Committee, pre-Watergate days, when the intelligence community, under the Allen Dulles/James Angleton legacy, ran amok.
Playing Politics With National Security Sources in the U.S. intelligence community and the Congress identify three reasons that Cheney chose Goss for the DCI post, and is now intent on ramming his confirmation through the Senate immediately after Labor Day.
First, the White House is desperate to "plug the leaks" at the CIA. The Agency has been scapegoated by the White House and its Congressional toadies, like Goss and California Republican Duncan Hunter, for the 9/11 attacks and for the failure to find the so-called Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. Senior career intelligence officers are furious, according to the sources, at the White House's blame game, and they do not intend to sit by and allow this propaganda scam to go unchallenged. The fact that evidence points to Cheney as the culprit behind the July 2003 leaking of the identity of CIA "non-official cover" officer Valerie Plame to columnist Robert Novak, only deepens the intelligence community's fury at the Bush White House. And Goss's personal role in attempting to prevent an independent counsel probe into the Plame leak just adds to the volatility of the issue. [More]
How about we organize The People's Tribunal on the Bush Administration?
COMMENT #47 [Permalink]
said on 7/5/2005 @ 9:03 pm PT...
OT, but to incredibly, infuriatingly disgustin for words. Some months after her son was killed in Iraq, Cindy Sheehan met with b*** at the White House. She's never been able to bring herself to talk about it before, but now she has described the experience in a phone interview. Via dKos, but read the whole article. Mind-boggling.
COMMENT #48 [Permalink]
said on 7/5/2005 @ 9:09 pm PT...
Hey, everyone take 10 seconds to step back and reflect on this:
Remember how in the 2000 Presidential campaign Bush promised that if he were elected, he would "restore honor and dignity" to the Whitehouse?
Now look at all this shit we are in.
Okay, get back to blogging, your 10 seconds of reflection are up!
COMMENT #49 [Permalink]
said on 7/5/2005 @ 11:22 pm PT...
Can you try that link again?
COMMENT #50 [Permalink]
said on 7/11/2005 @ 6:49 am PT...
:rolleyes: Who didn't know that Carl Rove is a liar, hater, dishonest, warmonger, devious. nazi like, fascist, bullshitter and all round general ass-hole!!
Give up? The Bushs
Always nice to know our leaders are crap!!
COMMENT #51 [Permalink]
said on 7/11/2005 @ 12:14 pm PT...
I have created a composite image that shows how Rove has a creepy likeness to Mark David Chapman, the wacko that shot John Lennon. How do I upload the image to this website for all to see?
COMMENT #52 [Permalink]
said on 7/13/2005 @ 10:34 am PT...
Partisan Food Fight! What exactly was "outing" Mrs. Wilson anyway!!! She and the reporters are the only victums here. Definately not the clowns at the White House. Bush needs to muzzle and straight jacket the staff at the White House. Interesting, we now look even more stupid to the rest of the World. I say, clean out the White House!