READER COMMENTS ON
"Canada Approves Same-Sex Marriage"
(75 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
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Joan
said on 7/20/2005 @ 9:27 pm PT...
Well-said, Brad!
KUDOS TO CANADA!!!
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
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Valley Girl
said on 7/20/2005 @ 10:04 pm PT...
I applaud the Canadians for taking such a sane view of what "couples" are all about. Living in the South, I've heard all kinds of nonsense about "saving gays from the error of their ways, praying for them, redeeming them", etc.
What most science-ignorant anti-gay folks refuse to consider is that an individual is born with a genetic and biological heritage that shapes many preferences, including the shape, form, and sex of the person that they choose as a mate. Heterosexuals (myself included) don't have such a good record for enduring bonds that they can justify writing off those who are committed to partners of the same sex.
Seems to me, in fact, that same-sex couples have had to endure a lot more negative pressure and woes than have the "normal" MF folks, and thus might be more strongly committed to their mate in marriage.
The idea that two people of the same sex, committed to each other for life, don't have the same legal rights and legal support as do MF couples is pure discrimination, and inhumane.
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
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Angie
said on 7/20/2005 @ 11:34 pm PT...
Perhaps when we see our neighbors to the North can do this without going to hell, then those of us here that are against it will open their eyes and change their mind???
Or am I just living in dreamland again?
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
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Catherine a
said on 7/21/2005 @ 1:18 am PT...
Tony, presumably there is nothing disreputable about Dr. Laura having had a past relationship with someone of either sex. That's the whole point of the new Canadian law. So one shouldn't refer to this as a "not so saintly" past.
The issue would rather be if Dr. Laura is denying her past, and trying to discredit those engaged in gay relationships. That's a combination of lying & hypocrisy if this is the case. If this is her stance, then the problem is her "not so saintly" *present*.
This reminds me of Clinton--not what he did, but that he lied about it. I can think of more important things to expose than this kind of thing. Jeff Gannon's misrepresentations are more serious than Dr. Laura's, and I think our perverted and corrupt election and political systems are more important than either.
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
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Catherine a
said on 7/21/2005 @ 1:21 am PT...
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
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Paul
said on 7/21/2005 @ 5:28 am PT...
Romans Ch. 1
1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
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KestrelBrighteyes
said on 7/21/2005 @ 5:36 am PT...
Canada legalized same sex marriage, and amazingly enough, the world didn't end, and my HETEROSEXUAL marriage, and the marriages of my friends and family, weren't impacted AT ALL!!
Who'd a'thunk it??
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
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Joan
said on 7/21/2005 @ 6:06 am PT...
Yes, Kestrel, exactly!
And I would imagine that a person of sincere faith, as they contemplate another whose behavior seems to them "sinful", would feel pity & compassion for that person, who---though only in their own sadly misguided & religion-infested brain (my personal opinion)---has so tragically erred that his/her immortal soul is at risk.
I mean, rather than carry signs that say "God Hates Fags" & all. Kind of uncharitable. Not to mention sickeningly hateful & just plain bone-headed stupid.
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
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Paul
said on 7/21/2005 @ 6:13 am PT...
Sodom, Gomorrah, three other towns along the Dead Sea - all gone. What does sodomy mean?
All three world religions - Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, teach the same about homosexuality.
Some day, Canada will be burned up and all will be judged.
Until then, eat, drink, and be merry!
2 Peter Ch. 3
3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
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Joan
said on 7/21/2005 @ 6:38 am PT...
#7,
Thanks for that link, Catherine. Interesting book. The prevailing assumptions about marriage kind of remind me of the also-prevalent assumption regarding the 'under god' clause in the pledge of allegiance: that it has always been a part of the pledge, when it was only tacked on in the 50's.
Sorry to digress there.
Obviously the issue, as Canada has wisely acknowledged by this action, is simple respect among human beings.
Nice goin', knooks!
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
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Paul
said on 7/21/2005 @ 6:41 am PT...
> What most science-ignorant anti-gay folks refuse to consider is that an individual is born with a genetic and biological heritage that shapes many preferences, including the shape, form, and sex of the person that they choose as a mate
That is not been proved.
What is known is that we are all born sinners, and sin manifests itself differently in people. Some have a propensity to steal, lie, cheat, be an alcoholic, etc. That still does not make those things right. And, saying that homosexuzlity is wrong does not mean being anti-gay. Perhaps it means compassion and wanting someone to not go down that road of destruction.
> Canada legalized same sex marriage, and amazingly enough, the world didn't end, and my HETEROSEXUAL marriage, and the marriages of my friends and family, weren't impacted AT ALL!!
We could change this sentence to slavery:
America legalized slavery, and amazingly enough, the world didn't end, and my non-slavery family, and the slave owners of my friends and family, weren't impacted at all.
Does that make slavery right?
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
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vdres
said on 7/21/2005 @ 7:50 am PT...
There are many more than three religions, Paul, and not every religion bans homosexuality. The three cited above are related by the fact that all believe in the apparently homophobic god of Abraham, though I suspect that fear was imported into the doctrine by man.
Freedom, at least partly, means that the citizens of a free nation are free from the imposition of religious doctrine. Canada has stepped toward freedom and away from the tyranny of theocracy.
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 7/21/2005 @ 8:07 am PT...
Party on, Paul! What's it like to live with hate and disgust in your heart all the time? Watch your blood pressure. You don't want to blow up!
My Canada. Proud and free!
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 7/21/2005 @ 8:08 am PT...
Or is that really our old pal, Attny. Jim?
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
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Doug Eldritch
said on 7/21/2005 @ 8:44 am PT...
Paul seems to epitomize the very crazy disturbing ways of the religious right....
Perhaps whenever he want to see what they are capable of, and their bible enhanced thug energy we should put up this image of Paul.
I don't mean the apostle paul, either!
Doug E.
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
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KestrelBrighteyes
said on 7/21/2005 @ 8:45 am PT...
Wow, comparing consensual sex between two people to slavery - how screwed up is that?
Methinks someone has some latent "kinks" - I see why Jeff Gannon/James Guckert is so popular with this crowd.
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
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Charlie- New Orleans
said on 7/21/2005 @ 9:28 am PT...
Paul-
Once again using religion to tout your propaganda. Canada has less to wory about than your corrupt, murdering, racist republican regime. 25,000 Iraqi civilians dead....how does god feel about that? Who is going to hell for that? You thought sadam was bad? Look at us...
Once again, (an athiest outside perspective), religion is being used to justify the perverted mentality of republicans and terrorist alike....when will you people learn?
Disqusted Daily,
Charlie- New Orleans
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
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BLUEBEAR2
said on 7/21/2005 @ 9:40 am PT...
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
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Paul
said on 7/21/2005 @ 10:57 am PT...
I am not Jimmo or John but they really get your goat.
> racist republican regime. 25,000 Iraqi civilians dead
Stay on topic.
> http://www.kingidentity.com/
There are many Christian cults and non-Christian cults. Lots of false Christianity beliefs out there like Kingdom Now and Dominion Theology.
> not every religion bans homosexuality
Name one.
> What's it like to live with hate and disgust in your heart all the time?
Has nothing to do with hate.
My friend for 20 years and dentist for 13, was rumored gay after his divorce. He was married several years and had two small kids. I did not stop going to him until he and 7 other professionals were arrested in San Diego on Feb. 13. They were heading to Mexico to have sex with boys age 8 to 13. He threw it all away for the love of a child. He even talked about bringing a couple of kids back and adopting them. Thank you FBI for infiltrating N.A.M.B.L.A. Our government did something right for a change.
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
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Paul
said on 7/21/2005 @ 11:03 am PT...
Dougie,
> I don't mean the apostle paul, either!
It was the Apostle Paul who wrote Romans Ch. 1, with the inspiration from God. But as a ex-Catholic, you knew that already.
For review -
1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
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Charlie- New Orleans
said on 7/21/2005 @ 11:35 am PT...
Paul-
Again, religion is being used to justify your perverted mentality. You and the terrorist are the same. In fact from my perspective, the republicans (those complicit) are the terrorist.
Anyone up for talking about the serious lack of any investigation into 9/11? Or the serious flaws with the official story? How about building 7? One fire in one wing, and it demolishes to the ground in its own footprint? Plausibility, none.
The terrorist are not Arab, their white. Their not from the middle east, their from here. Their not muslim, their Christian.
The only people burning in your imaginary hell Paul, will not be Canadians or homosexuals. They will be white Christians waving GOP flags, wearing white hoods made of sheets. Your hypocricy defines you.
Charlie- New Orleans
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
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citizen663
said on 7/21/2005 @ 11:37 am PT...
Paul,
Um..."What is known is that we are all born sinners"This has not been proven either.
If you have proof I'd love to see it. Not being a Christian, I'd also like you to prove why your bible is acceptable as proof if you decide to cite it as proof.
Citing God requires the additional proof of the existence of god.
Sorry folks, but I just can't resist
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
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vdres
said on 7/21/2005 @ 11:40 am PT...
Name one? No problem.
Neither Buddhism nor Hinduism prohibits homosexuality, some native American shamanistic religions encourage it, as did ancient pagans, neopagans (like Wiccan), and ancient Greek religion. In fact, in the 4th century, homesexual Christan marriages were recognized.
Also, Paul, don't confuse child molestation with homosexuality.
Pursue your spiritual path however you wish, but once you politicize it, you pervert it by reducing it to a worldy concern.
Go Canada.
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
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Paul
said on 7/21/2005 @ 11:54 am PT...
> If you have proof I'd love to see it. Not being a Christian, I'd also like you to prove why your bible is acceptable as proof if you decide to cite it as proof.
ok - I will. But later....
COMMENT #25 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 7/21/2005 @ 11:56 am PT...
You see? These people are so filled with hate and fear that they think that all gay people are pedophiles. Hate to tell ya Paul; but most pedophiles are "straight", married men. Often white; often religious. Catholic priests, anyone?
Oh, and wasn't it straight, white men that carried out the Crusades and the Inquisition? I think so.
That was very generous of Paul to remain going to his dentist after he was "rumoured" to be gay. How very liberal of him. Boy, I'm glad I live up here. We have our share of freaks; but you poor people are overrun with them.
COMMENT #26 [Permalink]
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Bryan
said on 7/21/2005 @ 11:57 am PT...
Paul, great to see you around again! An old Brad Blog fan and supporter, if I recall. Always with a kind word of scripture to toss instead of logic.
Your bigotry and hypocrisy never fail to entertain.
Way to step up to the plate!
COMMENT #27 [Permalink]
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Emily
said on 7/21/2005 @ 12:11 pm PT...
Maybe you're right Angie. It'll be a hard battle for it to happen here but hopefully someday we can all look back at this crazy time and think "what were we thinking back then?"
COMMENT #28 [Permalink]
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Skinny
said on 7/21/2005 @ 12:14 pm PT...
Paul summarizes once again the anti-homosexual stance that we see played out so often in conservative politics: the bible, and therefore my homophobic god (miniscule intentional) say it's bad, thus government has an obligation to make laws forbidding it.
What I find so annoying about conservatives, and especially bible-thumpers like Paul (I'm still not sure I believe it isn't the uber-troll Jimmo) is their desire for Taliban-like control over the population. Liberals just don't act that way--they tend to respect laws and systems that allow people to make their own choices, even if they feel they don't necessarily agree. Liberals don't really appreciate laws that inhibit choice or attempt to define the limits of the pursuit of happiness. People should be able to pursue their own agenda free from government interference.
The purpose of government should not be (read the constitution) to dictate social policy insofar as it represents infringement upon personal choice and freedom. I suppose in your view the bible trumps the constitution, but our government officials are sworn to uphold the constitution whereas preachers are sworn to uphold the bible. Lets not confuse the two.
Scream intolerance from the pulpit if you like. Spout entire passages of the bible until you're dizzy. Give money and time to your church and spread your jesus-laden message as much as you want, you're entitled. All that is asked for here is to respect the fact we as people are able to choose. Even according to your bible story, god imbued us with choice. I assume there is a reason. I for one choose to reject the idea of god, and it has absolutely nothing to do with you. If I want to marry my goldfish that's my business, not the government's.
Don't even try to draw wierd parallels here (slavery?!), same-sex marriage hurts no one except the conservative sense of propriety--similar to how I feel when conservatives substitute bible passages for effective argument . That doesn't mean I think laws should be passed forbidding it.
If you think that homosexual marriage is against god's design then let god, NOT you, and ESPECIALLY NOT government, sort it out. It's none of your concern, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the mandate of government. If my goldfish and I are OK with your contention that satan has us by the balls and we're not hurting anyone, what difference to you? Your blissful afterlife playing hopscotch with jesus is still intact; you might even gain some satisfaction knowing that we're suffering an eternity of torment for our inter-species tryst. Fine with me, I suggest we leave each other free to pursue our own designs.
One last thing, your dentist likely wouldn't have had issues with his homosexuality if he hadn't felt the need to repress it from the earliest get-go. Kind of like what happens with priests as a result of their abstinence pledges. It's speculative, but he would probably otherwise be happily married to a man and still capping teeth to this day.
Well that's my two cents, thanks for playing.
COMMENT #29 [Permalink]
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Skinny
said on 7/21/2005 @ 12:24 pm PT...
Looking at the length, maybe more like four cents...!
COMMENT #30 [Permalink]
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Tony From The Block
said on 7/21/2005 @ 12:25 pm PT...
OT but on the topic of anti gay shrews tonight I met a woman who knew Dr. Laura when she was doing her post doc work at USC. She knew Dr. Laura's live in lover, the one Dr. Laura denies living with. She provided me with some interesting details about the woman. I would love to get this person to talk to one of the blogs.
I wonder if this is even a story. Anyone have any idea if there is an interest in dish from Dr. Laura's not so saintly past.
She made quite a few enemies along the way to the slop, I mean top.
Tony From The Block
COMMENT #31 [Permalink]
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BigTobacco
said on 7/21/2005 @ 12:45 pm PT...
Leviticus 11:9-12 says:
9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.
12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.
Did crustaceans cause 9/11? Have the British been shrimping it up? Lobster and liberal both begin with "L."
But honestly, I don't understand why one's love life isn't best left to matters of personal conscience and personal morality? Time and time again, conservatives remind us that care for the poor and the preservation of jointly owned environmental resources like air are "personal moral issues"... but somehow intimate behaviors don't fit into this category.
I believe that marriage is something that must by definition be consumated by a man and woman, who are open to creation of new life... But I don't see how it would be my business to start writing laws to enforce strict adherence to the very narrow requirements of my particular religious discipline. What's next? Mandatory fundamentalist Bible study? Forced circumcision for all men? Maybe they could appoint an anti-gluttony paramilitary to barricade the Old Country Buffet. I shouldn't joke... that's probably in the works.
I wish they would start enforcing the scriptural prohibitions against Bearing False Witness... and start kicking people to the curb over the GOP smear machine.
COMMENT #32 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 7/21/2005 @ 1:30 pm PT...
They do have selective enforcement of the scriptures, don't they?
I'm not a religious person but aren't you supposed to love your neighbour, not bear false witness, not kill, not covet your neighbour's wife, not commit adultery, do unto others, yada, yada, yada?
It seems to be ok to murder thousands of people, screw around on your spouse, lie about all kinds of things and cheat on your taxes but heaven forbid if someone disagrees with you or is (gasp!) gay!!!
COMMENT #33 [Permalink]
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Joan
said on 7/21/2005 @ 1:48 pm PT...
LAG! Where are you with those chickens?!! (see previous thread...)
COMMENT #34 [Permalink]
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Paul
said on 7/21/2005 @ 2:27 pm PT...
> You and the terrorist are the same. In fact from my perspective, the republicans (those complicit) are the terrorist.
Why can't you stay on topic?
You got a lotta hate there buddy!
> I'm not a religious person but aren't you supposed to love your neighbour, not bear false witness, not kill, not covet your neighbour's wife, not commit adultery
and not engage in homosexuality.
more later...
COMMENT #35 [Permalink]
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COLLEEN
said on 7/21/2005 @ 2:33 pm PT...
My "Ozzie and Harriet" childhood was great. We were a church going Catholic family with 6 kids.
My brother, David was gay. We loved him just as much. But it did take me a few years to understand his sexuality. He said he knew when he was 5 that he was different.
He was "married" for 10 years to a wonderful man. He had the best marriage of us all. Including my parents.
I think people who demonize others because of what they do in their own bedrooms are sexually repressed basket cases.
Statistics show that closeted homos are the most vocal and fearful of all.
If the shoe fits...
COMMENT #36 [Permalink]
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Karla Stout
said on 7/21/2005 @ 2:38 pm PT...
You kids just keep focusing on the gay marriage thing, & don't worry that doing so will prevent you from ever winning another presidential election. You "progressives" are the best friend of the GOP. Stay focused on that gay thing. :laugh:
COMMENT #37 [Permalink]
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citizen663
said on 7/21/2005 @ 2:39 pm PT...
#26
Paul, is that a veiled reference to my death?
How cute, you avoided backing up your statement entirely by making a self-righteous statement.
I'll demonstrate how you are wrong, later...
COMMENT #38 [Permalink]
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Paul
said on 7/21/2005 @ 4:11 pm PT...
> Paul, is that a veiled reference to my death?
No. I meant "later" as in "later today."
Ok. Let's stay on topic. The topic is gay marriage in Canada. Let's not get emotional. I have said that the Bible/God said homosexuality is wrong.
> Neither Buddhism nor Hinduism prohibits homosexuality, some native American shamanistic religions encourage it, as did ancient pagans, neopagans (like Wiccan), and ancient Greek religion. In fact, in the 4th century, homesexual Christan marriages were recognized. Also, Paul, don't confuse child molestation with homosexuality.
Ok, those are pagan and non-Christiain religions. Buddha is not God. He did not say he was God. Where is your 4th century documentation? I will explain the difference between pagan religions and Christianity.
My dentist was a homosexual pedophile. He liked the male sex, he just liked them very young. However, I am not comparing a homosexual to a pedophile.
Let's do not confuse Christianity/God/Jesus with Bush, our government, the right wing, the Catholic church, the crusades, Pat Robertson, etc....
To answer #24 first
> "What is known is that we are all born sinners"
This has not been proven either.
If you have proof I'd love to see it. Not being a Christian, I'd also like you to prove why your bible is acceptable as proof if you decide to cite it as proof. Citing God requires the additional proof of the existence of god.
Good question. I will answer it.
IT TAKES FAITH. However, that does not mean a BLIND FAITH.
In Christianity, God is a tritarian God (the Trinity). Only one God, but three persons. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost.
John Ch. 1 says "In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God." It goes onto say that "the Word was made flesh and walked amoung us."
Who became flesh? Jesus did. Therefore, in the beginning was Jesus, Jesus was with God, and Jesus was God. Jon goes onto say that nothing was made without the Word. Therefore, God created the Heavens and the Earth and so did Jesus.
Jesus said "I am the Father are one." "If you know me, you know the Father." Jesus also said that he is leaving earth to return to the Father in Heaven and the Father will send the Holy Spirit as the Comforter.
Now, the question here is - is Jesus God? Is he a liar? Is he a phony? If he is God, then what does that mean? Is he to be worshipped?
Jesus was 100% man but he was 100% God too.
In all word religions, man tries to get to God. They do this by good works, outward devotion to something, etc. Only in Christianity did God come to man. Jesus became flesh and walked amoung us. He died on the cross for our sins. "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Gos said our good works are filthy rags to Him.
This is all about FAITH.
The Old Testament was God-inspired and the New Testement was God-breathed because Word became Flesh and walked among us.
So, it is about FAITH but not BLIND FAITH.
Before I list some prophesies that were hundreds of years before Jesus was born, the question you have is - What will you do about Jesus? I would suggest reading he Book of John - it is only 30 pages long or so.
Here are just 50 of those thousand Prophecies:
Ancestors:
1- The "seed of a woman": Genesis 3:15.... Galatians 4:4.
Jesus was born of Virgin Mary without any man involved in His conception (Is.7:14, Mat.1:23, Lk.1:27).
- Gen.3:15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.
- Gal.4:4 But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law. (Luk.2:7; Rev.12:5)
2- Descendent of Abraham: Genesis 12:3, 18:18.... Acts 3:25, Matthew 1:1.
- Gen. 18:18 Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation and all nations on earth will be blessed through him. (Gen. 12:3)
- Act. 3:25 And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, "Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed." (Mt.1:1; Lk.3:34)
3- Descendent of Isaac: Gen.17:19, Luc.3:34.
- Gen.17:19 Then God said, "Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him."
-Mt.1:2 Abraham was the father of Isaac, Isaac the father of Jacob, Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers. (Lk.3:34)
4- Descendent of Jacob: Numbers 24:17...... Luke 3:34, Matt.1:2.
- Num.24:17 I see him, but not now; I behold him, but not near. A star will come out of Jacob; a scepter will rise out of Israel. He will crush the foreheads of Moab, the skulls of all the sons of Sheth.
- Lk.3:34 The son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor. (Mt.1:2)
5-- From the Tribe of Judah: Genesis 49:10, Luke 3:33.
- Gen.49:10 The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs and the obedience of the nations is his.
- Lk.3:33 The son of Amminadab, the son of Ram, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah. (Mt.1:2-3)
6- Hair of the Throne of David: Isaiah 9:7.... Luke 1:32-33.
- Isa.9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the Lord Almighty will accomplish this. (Isa.11:1-5; 2Sam.7:13)
- Luk.1:32-33: He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end." (Mt.1:1, 1:6)
Birth and Childhood:
7- Born in Bethlehem: Micah 5:2.... Matthew 2:1.... Luke 2:4-7.
- Mic.5:2 But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from ancient times.
- Mt.2:1 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem. (Lk.2:4-7)
8- To be born of a Virgin: Isaiah 7:14, Matthew 1:18.... Luke 1:26-35.
- Isa.7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
- Mt.1:18 This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: his mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. (Lk.1:26-35)
9- Time of his birth: Daniel 9:25.... Luke 2:1:
- Dan.9:25 Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven "sevens" and sixty two "sevens." It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble.
- Lk 2:1-2 In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world. (This was the first census that took place while Quirinius was the governor of Syria.) (Lk 2:3-7)
- Mat.2:1 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem
10- Slaughter of the Innocent children: Jeremiah 31:15.... Matthew 2:16-18.
- Jer.31:15 This is what the Lord says: "A voice is heard in Ramah, mourning and great weeping, Rachel weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted, because her children are no more."
- Mt.2:16 When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi. (Mt 2:16-18)
11- Flight to Egypt: Hosea 11:1.... Matthew 2:14-15.
- Hos.11:1 When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son
- Mt.2:14 So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt. (Mt 2:15)
12- He shall be called a Nazarene: Judges 13:5.... Matthew 2:23.
- Jud.13:5 for the child shall be a Nazarite unto God
- Mt.2:23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene
Passion:
13- Triumphal entry in Jerusalem on a donkey: Zechariah 9:9.... John 12:13-14.
- Zec.9:9 Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion! Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and having salvation, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey. (Isa.62:11)
- Jn.12:13-14 They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting, "Hosanna!" "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!" "Blessed is the King of Israel!" Jesus found a young donkey and sat upon it, as it is written. (Mt.21:1-11; Jn.12:12, Mk.11:7-9.)
14- Entry through the "Golden Gate", that shall be shut for ever after his entrance: Ezekiel 44:1-2.... Mark 11:7-8.
On Palm Sunday Jesus entered Jerusalem through the Golden Gate. When you go to Jerusalem look at the Golden Gate, it is shut with stone and cement, and with a Muslim cemetery in its front, through which a Jewish Messiah will never pass.
- Ez.44:1-2 Then the man brought me back to the outer gate of the sanctuary, the one facing east, and it was shut. 2 The LORD said to me, "This gate is to remain shut. It must not be opened; no one may enter through it. It is to remain shut because the LORD , the God of Israel, has entered through it.
- Mk.11:7-8 When they brought the colt to Jesus and threw their cloaks over it, he sat on it. Many people spread their cloaks on the road, while others spread branches they had cut in the fields.
15- Betrayed by a friend, for 30 pieces of silver: Zechariah 11:12, Psalm 41:9... Mark 14:10, Matthew 26:14-15.
- Ps.41:9 Even my close friend, whom I trusted, he who shared my bread, has lifted up his heel against me.
- Mk.14:10 Then Judas Iscariot, one of the Twelve, went to the chief priests to betray Jesus to them. (Mt.26:14-16; Mk.14:43-45)
- Zec.11:12 I told them, "If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it." So they paid me thirty pieces of silver. (Zec.11:13)
- Mt.26:15 And asked, "What are you willing to give me if I hand him over to you?" So they counted out for him thirty silver coins. (Mt 27:3-10)
16- Money to be returned for a potter's field: Zechariah 11:13.... Matthew 27:6-7.
- Zec.11:13 And the Lord said to me, "Throw it to the potter"- the handsome price at which they priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the Lord to the potter.
- Mt.27:6-7 The chief priests picked up the coins and said, "It is against the law to put this into the treasury, since it is blood money." So they decided to use the money to buy the potter's field as a burial place for foreigners. (Mt.27:3-5,8-10)
17- Judas's position to be taken by another: Psalm 109:7-8.... Acts 1:18-20.
- Ps.109:7-8 When he is tried, let him be found guilty, and may his prayers condemn him. May his days be few; may another take his place of leadership
- Act.1:18-20 (With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.) "For, " said Peter, "It is written in the book of Psalms, "'May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,' and, "'May another take his place of leadership.'" (Ac 1:16-17)
18- Accused by false witnesses: Psalms .27:12, 35:11.... Mt 26:60-61, Mk.14:57.
- Ps.27:12 Do not turn me over to the desire of my foes, for false witnesses rise up against me, breathing out violence. (Ps.35:11)
- Mt.26:60-61 But they did not find any, though many false witnesses came forward. Finally two men came forward and declared, "This fellow said, 'I am able to destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.'"
19- Silent to accusations: Isaiah 53:7.... Matthew 26:62-63, Mark.15:4-5.
- Isa.53:7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. (Ps.38:13-14)
- Mt 26:62-63 Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?" But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God!" (Mt 27:12-14, Mk.15:4-5)
20 - Spat and struck: Isaiah 50:6, Matthew 26:67.
- Isa.50:6 I offered my back to those who beat me, my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard; I did not hide my face from mocking and spitting.
- Mk.14:65 Then some began to spit at him; they blindfolded him struck him with their fists, and said, "Prophesy!" And the guards took him and beat him. (Mt.26:27, Mk.15:17; Jn 19:1-3; 18:22)
21- Hated without reason: Psalms 69:4, 35:19, 109:3-5.... John.15:24-25.
- Ps 69:4 Those who hate me without reason outnumber the hairs of my head; many are my enemies without cause, those who seek to destroy me. I am forced to restore what I did not steal. (Ps.35:19, 109:3-5)
- Jn.15:23-25 He who hates me hates my Father as well. If I had not done among them what no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. But now they have seen these miracles, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: "They hated me without reason."
22- Soldiers divided his garments and gambled for his clothing: Psalm 22:18... Matt.27:35 (2 Prophecies)
- Ps 22:18 They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.
- Mt.27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots (Mk.15:24).
23- Crucified, "pierced through hands and feet": Zechariah 12:10, Psalm 22:16.... Matthew 27:35, John 20:27.
- Ps.22:16 Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet. (Zec.12:10)
- Mt.27:35 And they crucified him.
- Jn. 20:25-26 Now Thomas (called Didymus)... he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it." (Jn.19:37, 20:27)
24- Crucified with malefactors: Isaiah 53:12.... Mark 15:27-28.
- Isa.53:12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
- Mt 27:38 Two robbers were crucified with him, one on his right and one on his left. (Mk 15:27-28; Lk 23:33)
25- Agonized in Thirst: Psalm 22:15.... John 19:28.
- Ps.22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
- Jn.19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
26- Given gall and vinegar: Psalm 69:21.... Matthew 27:34, 48, John 19:19.
- Ps.69:21 They put gall in my food and gave me vinegar for my thirst.
- Mat.27:34 They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink (Jn.19:29, Mat.27:48).
27- No bones broken: Psalm 34:20.... John 19:32-36.
- Ps 34:20 He protects all his bones, not one of them will be broken. (Ex 12:46)
- Jn 19:33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.
28- His side pierced: Zechariah 12:10.... John 19:34.
- Zec.12:10 They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.
- Jn 19:34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.
29- Deserted by God: Psalm 22:1.... Matthew 27:46.
- Ps.22:1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
- Mat.27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
30- Vicarious Sacrifice: Isaiah 53:4-5, 6, 12.... Matthew 8:16-17, Romans 4:25, 5:6-8, 1 Corinthians 15:3.
- Isa.53:4-5 Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. (Is. 53:6, 12)
- Mt.8:16-17 When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to him, and he drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick. This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah: "He took up our infirmities and carried our diseases." (Ro 4:25, 5:6-8, 1Cor 15:3)
31- Buried with the rich: Isaiah 53:9, Matthew 27:57-60.
- Isa.53:9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth.
- Mt.27:57-60 As evening approached, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who had himself become a disciple of Jesus. Going to Pilate, he asked for Jesus' body, and Pilate ordered that it be given to him. Joseph took the body, wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, and placed it in his own new tomb that he had cut out of the rock. He rolled a big stone in front of the entrance to the tomb and went away
32- Deserted by his followers: Zechariah 13:7.... Mark 14:27.
- Zec.13:7 smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
- Mk.14:27 And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.
33- Time of his death: Daniel 9:25.... Luke 2:1, Matthew 2:1:
- Doing the proper computations, the Messiah was supposed to die on April 3, of the year 33 AC (Open Bible pag.833)
34- Resurrection of Jesus: Hosea 6:2, Psalms 16:10, 49:15..... Luke 24:6-7, Mark.16:6-7.
- Hos.6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
- Lk.24:6-7 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.
35- Other dead raised with Him: Isaiah 26:19, Ezekiel 37:7-10..... Matthew 27:52-53.
- Isa.26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
- Ez.37:7-10 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone. And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them. Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live. So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
- Mat.27:52-53 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
36- Ascension to Heaven: Psalms 68:18, 24:3.....Lk 24:50-51, Acts 1:11, Mk.16:19.
- Ps.68:18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.
- Ps.24:3 Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place?
- Lk 24:50-51 When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven
- Act.1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
37- Christ at the Right hand of the Father: Psalm 110:1..... Hebrews 1:2,3.
- Ps.110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
- Heb.1:2,3 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Ministry:
38- The way prepared by John the Baptist: Isaiah 40:3,5.... John 1:23, Luke 3:3-6.
- Isa.40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
- Jn.1:23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Isaiah
39- Preceded by a forerunner: Mal.3:1, Luk.7:24-27.
40- Preceded by Elijah: Mal.4:5-6, Matt.11:13-14.
41- Declared the Son of God: Ps.2:7, Matt.3:17.
42- Galilean Ministry: Is.9:1-2, Matt.4:13-16.
43- Speaks in Parables: Ps.78:2-4, Matt.13:34-35.
44- A Prophet: Deut.18:15, Jn.6:14, Acts 3:20-22.
45- Priest after the Order of Melchizedek: Ps.110:4, Heb.5:5-6.
46- To bind up the brokenhearted: Is.61:1-2, Luk.4:18-19.
47- Rejected by his own people, the Jews: Is.53:3, John 1:11.
48- Not believed: Is.53:1, John 12:37.
49- Adored by infants: Ps.8:2, Matt.21:15--16.
50- Anointed and eternal: Ps.45:6-7, Heb.1:8-12.
The Jewish Mystery:
It is puzzling to consider why some Jews do not recognize Jesus as the long promised and awaited Messiah, with so many prophecies of the Scriptures fulfilled to the letter in Jesus of Nazareth...
... One reason is that the Scriptures make 300 prophecies of the "First Coming of the Messiah", as the suffering servant of Is.53, but make 500 prophecies about the "Second Coming of the Messiah", the triumphal King of Zach.14... to the point that some rabbis talk about two Messiah, and for most Jews, the "triumphant one" is the Messiah they were expecting...
... The Jews did not kill Jesus, the Roman soldiers did, under the command of a Roman Governor, Pontius Pilate... however the "real killers" of Jesus are you and I, because each time we sin, "we crucify the Son of God for ourselves holding him up to mockery" (Hebrews 6:6)...
... The Jews, and you and I, were expecting a Messiah to bring us the kingdom of this world, but Jesus offers us something infinitely bigger, the Kingdom of Heaven... and for it we shout "crucify him"!... we expected a boss, and Jesus is only a God. We wanted swords, and Jesus gives us palms. We were longing to be bosses, but Jesus orders us to love. We were expecting to be victorious, with honors, and Jesus commands us to forgive and to be humble... and for it, as a criminal of high treason, we shout "crucify him"!...
The Messiah, Christ in Greek
The "Messiah" is an idea and hope that runs through every page of the Holy Scriptures... with 300 prophecies about his "First Coming", and 500 about his "Second Coming"... announcing his character, his time of coming, the type and details of his church... and the Messiah is the core of the heart of every Jew... He was promised to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David... he shall save Israel and the whole world!...
There have been many who claimed to be the Messiah... the one who "will establish the throne of God's Kingdom for ever" (Psa.12).
"Jesus of Nazareth", was one of those who claimed to be the Messiah... racially and religiously Jesus was born, lived, and died a loyal Jew. He at all times observed the Jewish religious ceremonies rigorously. His first commandment was a direct quotation of the "Schema", in Debt.6: "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength" (Mar.12:29-30).
Without any question, Jesus is the most famous and influential person in the history of the human race... He never wrote a book, but millions of books have been written on him... He owned no property, won no medals, never held any political or religious office, commanded no army... Yet no person in history has had such an influence on the human race. Even the present year is dated from his birth.
He said that he had come not to destroy, but to fulfill the Jewish Laws. He announced his purpose in Luk.4 with the words of Is.61:1-2: "The Lord anointed me to preach good tidings to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind.
Jesus' reception, During his life was a stormy one: The multitudes flocked to him, and many of them acknowledge him as the Son of God and the long-awaited Messiah (Christ). But the powerful forces in the Jewish congregation, Pharisees and Sadducees, jealous of his popularity, incensed by his denunciation of some of them, and bitterly critical of his disregard for formalism, his willingness to violate some of the minor laws, and very specially for his heretical claim that he was the Son of God, the Messiah, repudiated him, and conspired to kill him... their final conspiracy was not after doing something bad, but after resurrecting a 4 days death, Lazarus! (Jn.12)... they were blind!, they could not see that he was really God... and eventually they saw him crucified, fulfilling the scriptures, as he had announced 3 times before... and after learning of his resurrection, they persecuted his followers!...
==============
The Bible is a Christians sourceto know more about God. Also, from prayer and from other Christians.
So, if the Bible/God says that murder, stealing, lying, and homosexuality is a sin, then they are. And sin has consequences. Sexual sins are sins against the body. All other sins are outside the body. There is also evil in the world. A government and a person has the right to protect themselves from it.
My opinion, it seems to me that Liberals find salvation in the government or look to the government to solve everything with the two main sacraments being abortion and gay marriage.
COMMENT #39 [Permalink]
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Brad
said on 7/21/2005 @ 4:49 pm PT...
Nice copying and pasting, Paul. Sadly, you didn't answer the question.
You said:
"Ok. Let's stay on topic. The topic is gay marriage in Canada. Let's not get emotional. I have said that the Bible/God said homosexuality is wrong."
And another commenter said that the Bible/God said killing etc. was wrong.
Why do you ignore one (actually many many tenents) of the bible, but then use another to justify what you think should apply to *my* government?
You are as much of a hypocrite as ever. And at least as much of one as those who blindly follow in our government despite their constant disregard for those other (apparently less important to you) bible doctrines...like not committing murder etc.
COMMENT #40 [Permalink]
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Paul
said on 7/21/2005 @ 5:03 pm PT...
Murder is wrong. Killing in self-defense is not.
One of the main roles of government is to protect it's citizens. Sometimes that means war with another nation or an enemy. i.e. Germany, Japan. terrorists, the slave owning south. My family fought for the North by the way.
The topic was about gay marriage which is legal homosexuality.
I answered the question.
Romans Ch. 1
1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
COMMENT #41 [Permalink]
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Paul
said on 7/21/2005 @ 5:05 pm PT...
Bradley, good to hear from you. How was your birthday?
Don't you love lively debate instead of just preaching to the choir? LOL
COMMENT #42 [Permalink]
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SeattleDem
said on 7/21/2005 @ 5:24 pm PT...
COMMENT #43 [Permalink]
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Paul
said on 7/21/2005 @ 5:30 pm PT...
> The purpose of government should not be (read the constitution) to dictate social policy insofar as it represents infringement upon personal choice and freedom. I suppose in your view the bible trumps the constitution, but our government officials are sworn to uphold the constitution whereas preachers are sworn to uphold the bible
Our laws are based on the Bible, Jewish law, Roman law, the 10 commandments, etc. Sodomy was illegal in Texas for 150+ years.
The law is based on morality. If one cannot legislate morality, then one should not legislate immorality.
All law is moral however. A stop sign is moral. You have a moral choice to stop or to run it. If you run it, nothing will happen, or, you could kill someone, or get a ticket if caught. Consequences!
Homosexuality should not be honored, promoted, made legal, is not moral, and that is all I am saying.
A person needs help out of the lifestyle not help into it. It is very destructive to family, marriages, and friends. Help out of it is compassion not hate. Compassion without truth sets no one free.
If homosexuality was not wrong from the beginning of time, there would be no discussion here. Slavery was always wrong but it happened and still does in some countries.
Adultery is not illegal yet it will get you into big time trouble. It is not to be honored, not to be put on a pedestal, not to be promoted.
I do not believe the constitution is sacred as Mormons do. However, our founding fathers were mainly Christian and they put together a very fine document. Quite brilliant actually. I think they were God-inspired.
COMMENT #44 [Permalink]
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Paul
said on 7/21/2005 @ 5:36 pm PT...
> WHAT WOULD JESUS BOMB?
Very cute, but the question should be "What will you do with Jesus?
Remember, God is a God of love, but he is also a God of judgment and wrath.
God will do whatever he wants. He can use a good or evil nation to destroy an evil nation. He has done it many times before. He destroyed the earth with water and the next time will be with fire.
I suggest you not mock him.
I will never change your mind but the Holy Spirit can change you heart.
COMMENT #45 [Permalink]
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citizen663
said on 7/21/2005 @ 5:38 pm PT...
FAITH is not proof, even if you have faith, it is not proof of the existence of that which you have faith in. Critical thought could distinquish the difference.
I read the bible, it gives me nightmares of "begat"s. I was determined to read every page (I do that with most books), I certainly wouldn't recommend it. I don't need to read it again, so I'd appretiate it if you didn't post it again. Links to what you qualify as proof are more than sufficient.
Frankly, I think you are using any excuse to proselytize, but I guess I asked for it. Most of the world is not christian, maybe you should take that to heart and accept that people having differing beliefs is a fact of life. All of our lives will be a little better if the conservative right (which you are definately a member of) accepts that maybe we can decide for ourselves instead of trying to dictate to us.
Frankly, the Bhagavad Gita was a much more interesting read, though I really can't wait to get my hands on the newest Harry Potter book
COMMENT #46 [Permalink]
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Paul
said on 7/21/2005 @ 6:04 pm PT...
#45
I like your sense of humor.
Hindusim has 1000s of gods. Buddhism was a rejection of it. Again, how does man get to god in these two. I gave written articles on all of these.
You don't have to read the begats - read JOHN. That's it! Read it and then we can talk about it.
> Frankly, I think you are using any excuse to proselytize, but I guess I asked for it
I would agree with that entire sentence.
Seems something has really bothered you.
But, I still love you man!
COMMENT #47 [Permalink]
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SeattleDem
said on 7/21/2005 @ 6:08 pm PT...
My God is not a god of JUDGMENT and WRATH (you people really are sick and twisted), she is god of light and love. Paul, I suggest you get a life and keep your wrath filled judgemental god to yourself. We don't need that crap here.
COMMENT #48 [Permalink]
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citizen663
said on 7/21/2005 @ 6:09 pm PT...
"All law is moral however."
WRONG!
A law stating that it is acceptable to kill anyone would not be moral by virtue of the fact that it is a law. Immoral laws (like slavery) exist and should not be accepted bacause of some fuzzy tie to the bible. The law attempts to define actions that are allowed/disallowed based on contemporary understandings of what is moral/immoral. Laws outlawing behavior considered to be immoral are not always a good idea, hence the dramatic failure of prohibition. People WILL be left to their own devices, you can let them, or make them angry, defensive, and violent.
Stop signs are amoral. They are objects, incapable (as far as we know) of moral/immoral actions. They present the person approaching it with an internal, ethical question as to whether or not it would be moral/immoral to stop/not stop, or, to follow the letter of the law. This is largely based on the situation surrounding the individual. Sometimes it may be immoral to stop, such as with ambulances or someone transporting an injured person.
COMMENT #49 [Permalink]
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mdhatter
said on 7/21/2005 @ 9:12 pm PT...
Ahh, Canada,
The Massachusetts of the circumpolar Region
COMMENT #50 [Permalink]
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Paul
said on 7/21/2005 @ 9:12 pm PT...
#48
You are correct. Stop signs are amoral but they require a moral, or as you say, an ethical choice.
I was incorrect to say all laws are moral. I should have said that laws should be based on morality. Things can be legal and wrong while other things can be illegal but not necessarily wrong.
For instance, I think abortion is wrong but it is legal. You guys might think that pot is not wrong but it is illegal, except for medicinal purposes.
#47
> My God is not a god of JUDGMENT and WRATH (you people really are sick and twisted), she is god of light and love.
Your god is not God. Your god is not the Creator of the universe. Are you a Wiccan? Are you a pagan? What New Age belief do you follow? I know most of them.
COMMENT #51 [Permalink]
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COLLEEN
said on 7/21/2005 @ 10:09 pm PT...
Thanks for trying, Paul.
The bible can be interpreted many ways.
I have a problem with a religion or person that focuses on pelvic ussues.
COMMENT #52 [Permalink]
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Brad
said on 7/21/2005 @ 10:56 pm PT...
Paul -
My tolerance for your hate and bigotry will not last as long as it has in the past.
DO NOT copy endless Bible cites here. Feel free to post a link to whatever you are copying from.
Beyond that, you can give your silly opinions as usual, but when you start with your anti-Jewish and anti-Gay bigotry (and the rest of your bigotry for that matter), do not be surprised if your comments are removed with a kind notice.
If you want to spread hate, take it over to your Freeper buddies. You and your dead-ender friends have caused enough hatrid in this world.
COMMENT #53 [Permalink]
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Joan
said on 7/21/2005 @ 11:50 pm PT...
Thank you, Brad. He really is getting tiresome.
I still like LAG's idea of tying chickens to his collar. Not as cumbersome as an albatross, not as noisy as a bell (well, I guess that would really depend on the chickens), and way more entertaining than witnessing good folks wasting energy trying to employ REASON on him, which is rather like "trying to nail water to a wall". I would cite the author of that phrase if I remembered from whom I pinched it.
COMMENT #54 [Permalink]
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DaWookie
said on 7/22/2005 @ 3:55 am PT...
I think you'll find that come next election time, Diebold ES & S will be the GOP's best friend - just like the last two times.
COMMENT #55 [Permalink]
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Skeardy Kat
said on 7/22/2005 @ 7:24 am PT...
Paul, SATAN loves you and is waiting for you! He is growing very impatient, I might add!!
COMMENT #56 [Permalink]
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Joan
said on 7/22/2005 @ 9:44 am PT...
*sigh* I'd like to apologize to gay people everywhere for the staggering stupidity & hatefulness of too many wrong-headed people in this country.
Maybe 6 or 7 of us could start a quiet little campaign of empathy, that every time we run into a gay person or couple in our travels, we offer to buy them a beer, just as a little gesture to say "Sorry, guys." What do you think?
COMMENT #57 [Permalink]
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Skinny
said on 7/22/2005 @ 10:33 am PT...
Sheesh. It's sad, but this topic will become a wedge issue once again in the upcoming elections. The moral crusaders, out to save us from ourselves, just won't let it be.
COMMENT #58 [Permalink]
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Joan
said on 7/22/2005 @ 12:03 pm PT...
True, Skinny. I think Dems/progressives should decide upon a stock answer to use whenever righties play the gay card, something like "Oh please, not the gay issue again. Suffice it to say, this issue is about respect & basic human dignity, period."....and go on to talking about whatever real issue is on the table. My two cents.
COMMENT #59 [Permalink]
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Karla Stout
said on 7/22/2005 @ 12:38 pm PT...
Rest assured, kids, the GOP are collecting and categorizing prominent Dems' quotes on this gay marriage issue. They'll come in handy for the next general election. Won't be hard to get a few million Rednecks off the couch & to the polls to vote GOP. Just show clip after clip of freshly married gays, especially with little children, then splice in your favorite Dem with quote supporting gay marriages.
Stupid Dems are the very best friend of the GOP.
COMMENT #60 [Permalink]
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vdres
said on 7/22/2005 @ 1:07 pm PT...
Most disconcerting about it all is the pure arrogance of someone like Paul, who dismisses discussion of any other religion per se. If it isn't his religion, it isn't religion or moral. They don't even allow for alternative interpretations. They walk around smugly self-satisfied with their self-righteous assuredness, which in itself can be labeled a sin. The irony is that most consider themselves patriotic people, when in fact their goal is to destroy the Bill of Rights.
Two points:
All of the passages about homosexuality are much more ambiguous in the original Greek.
Read John Boswell's Same Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe as a starter for a scholarly, reasoned consideration.
COMMENT #61 [Permalink]
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vdres
said on 7/22/2005 @ 1:33 pm PT...
#54 Two words for you, Karla:
1. Mehlman
2. Guckert
COMMENT #62 [Permalink]
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Valley Girl
said on 7/22/2005 @ 6:35 pm PT...
#35 Colleen
Thanks for giving that info, although I fear that it will do nothing to change the views of those who are in the "christian religion game" because they are on a power trip. But, maybe it will give some of the more thoughtful folks who are still "anti" something to think about. As I've said before (comment #2), preferences as to mates, including same or other sex, are a combination of biological and genetic influences. Your brother's comments about his early recognition that he was "different", as you said, echo many similar comments that I have heard from gay friends. I wish that all of those who are "different", in whatever way, would have such wise and compassionate supporters, be they family or friends.
COMMENT #63 [Permalink]
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Karla
said on 7/22/2005 @ 11:36 pm PT...
What you emotion-based kids don't seem to grasp is that Americans vehemently oppose gays getting married and raising kids. It's at least 70-30 against. Many millions are VEHEMENTLY against it.
Mark my word, in November of 2008, you will see dozens or hundreds of clips of gays kissing, getting married, and raising children, on the evening news and in political ads. It will work, too. Millions of Americans who would not ordinarily vote will get off their buts and go vote -not so much pro-GOP as AGAINST the immoral dems.
Those of you who cannot grasp this concept will be wringing your hands in defeat once again. Silly children. You come to the table prepared to play checkers, and find an extremely intelligent opponent setting up the chess pieces. The only thing you "progressives" have going for you is that you are pretty good at name calling, cursing, and ridiculing other people. Doesn't count for much, but that's all you've got.
COMMENT #64 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 7/23/2005 @ 8:04 am PT...
Well I can't speak for the US Karla, and I don't know where you got your numbers, but in Canada it's about 70-30 FOR gay equality. And don't be too smug; come election time I think there will be just a few issues more important than people who have found someone to love (gays kissing? getting married? raising children? gasp! Omigod! terrible!).
TREASON comes to mind right away. ILLEGAL, MURDEROUS WARS as well. LIARS could factor in. Course the voters that are filled with hatred are always motivated to come out. Both our countries problems are to find out how to motivate those millions of "regular" people (who tend to live and let live) to get out.
Also, I don't know what blog you've been reading, but I don't recall seeing name-calling, cursing or ridiculing going on here. You must be confused with somewhere else. And from my dispassionate, out- of-country observation it looks to me like you're the emotion-based kid. Are you sure you're not secretly gay?
COMMENT #65 [Permalink]
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Karla
said on 7/23/2005 @ 11:43 am PT...
cheryl,
You may think there are more important issues than whether gays marry and raise kids. You may think a lot of things. But for the vast majority of Americans, it is a real hot button. That's why the GOP operatives made sure the issue was in the forefront in the weeks preceding the election. You confuse how you'd like things to be with how things are.
COMMENT #66 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 7/23/2005 @ 6:26 pm PT...
Karla, Karla, Karla,
Like I said I don't know where you got your numbers. According to this CBS/New York Times poll the majority of Americans don't think it's an issue for the last election. To quote:
(CBS) “Americans continue to oppose the idea of same-sex marriage and would support a constitutional amendment to ban it. Yet most do not feel that the issue should be part of the 2004 Election campaign, or that it is important enough to warrant the effort to change the Constitution – though opponents of same-sex marriage believe that it is.
In fact, opponents are much more likely to view same-sex marriage as an issue that will make a critical difference in how they vote in November, and that group currently supports George W. Bush.
Many people make a distinction between same-sex marriage and civil unions, which would provide same-sex couples some legal rights. Although fewer than one-fourth of Americans think gay and lesbian people should be allowed to marry, there is larger support for permitting civil unions. All in all, over half of Americans support some type of legal status for same-sex couples who wish to make a long-term commitment. 40% think same-sex couples' relationships ought to have no legal recognition.”
However, most voters would prefer this issue not be a part of the election campaign. 65% say it should play no part in the contest, and only 14% think it should have a major role. Even 58% of voters who want a constitutional amendment do not think the issue should be part of the campaign."
Which, of course is exactly the opposite of what you're trying to hype here. Marriage, maybe is pushing it too far for some puny brains; but legal protection is a good start. And what it says to me is that Canadians, religious or not, are far more tolerant and "live and let live" than many Americans. And here I thought that the whole basis of Christianity was tolerance and love. Silly me!
I believe that YOU are confusing things how you'd like things to be with how they are. But, that's just me......
COMMENT #67 [Permalink]
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Paul
said on 7/23/2005 @ 10:38 pm PT...
> Beyond that, you can give your silly opinions as usual, but when you start with your anti-Jewish and anti-Gay bigotry
These are not my opinions, they are the Word of God. Judaism teaches the same, it's called the Torah and the Pentateuch. Traditional Judaism considers homosexual sexual activities as an abomination, and thus absolutely against Jewish law.
You beef is not with me but with God Almighty Himself.
#66 > And here I thought that the whole basis of Christianity was tolerance and love
It is. We love people too much to see them continue living in their sin. It is called "Compassion without 'truth' sets no one free."
Cheryl, I will say one thing about Canada. They are one of the luckiest countries in the world. They are sitting on top of the United States. Canada really does not have to fight or protect itself, the US will do it for them.
Karla, you are so dead on!
But a change of topic - England and Italy are finally getting serious about terrorism. It also looks like Pakistan got leaned on by England. The Patriot Act has captured 400 bad guys. Things are looking up. All of the free nations have got to get serious about terrorism, and that Karla, is still the main reason it is not safe to trust Democrats. certainly not as long as they are beholden to the Left, dare I say it, the left kook fringe.
COMMENT #68 [Permalink]
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Joan
said on 7/24/2005 @ 7:39 am PT...
I'm tellin' ya, reasoning with a troll is nailing water to a wall. Why waste your breath?
COMMENT #69 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 7/24/2005 @ 8:12 am PT...
You're right Joan. I'll stop. But just let me say to Paul that we Canadians don't feel lucky to be sitting on top of the US. Your protectionism screws with our economy (everyone knows that free trade only applies to the Americans) and your insistence on sticking your nose into other country's affairs makes it much more dangerous for us. Don't bother fighting for me. By the way, when was the last time you went to war to protect yourself, as opposed to naked, selfish aggression?
And if you call the nasty, unpleasant way that you speak about a person because of who they live and sleep with love and tolerance, I'll pass. God, I'm glad to be Canadian!!! Vive le Canada!!
And that's all I'm saying.....
COMMENT #70 [Permalink]
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Karla
said on 7/24/2005 @ 1:26 pm PT...
Cheryl,
You make my point exactly. About 70% of Americans do not want gays to be married & raising children in America.
Your references to various polls don't really change much, as they depend on what specific question is being asked. It will be the GOP who makes the gay marriage issue an election topic, and they will rub America's face in it, leading up to the next election. You can bank on it. It's too successful a tool for them not to use, and many Dems will be blurting out ridiculous quotes that will help the GOP cause.
If gays want to be together, they should be. If they want to raise kids, fine. They just need to use their brain a bit, consult legal advice, draw up a will, specify their desires, and not leave their fate or their fortunes to chance. If I were gay & desired to be with a partner in a solid relationship, I certainly would take matters in my own hands, rather than cry out for the whole gay-hating country to come to my aid with new legislation. Aint' gonna happen.
The gay marriage topic is good for the GOP strategists, and bad for the Dems. If they had any sense, they would drop the subject, not discuss it, and advise their gay friends to stop sabatoging the Dem party with their public displays - and go get legal advice as to how to set up their estates.
It's just common sense advice - which I don't expect anyone to listen to. What I expect is more loud wailing from gays, more babble and insults from Dems, and more defeats at the polls by GOP candidates, who laugh their asses off at the stupidity of their opponents.
COMMENT #71 [Permalink]
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Rock
said on 7/24/2005 @ 4:51 pm PT...
Paul, you seem very knowledgeable in readings of the Bible. Good for you sir.
Can you sight any areas of the Bible that might conflict with the views you site on homosexuality?
Are there parts of the Bible that conflict with your views of a modern society?
Here's a few questions outside of the Bible for you...
1) Should we oppose Islamic countries for imposing the Sharia Law?
2) What is your opinion of Sharia Law?
3) Have you ever read Federalist #10?
COMMENT #72 [Permalink]
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Niobe
said on 8/8/2005 @ 6:18 pm PT...
Paul and Karla,
Canada does not need American protection. It never needed American protection, despite republican claims (cliche). One does not need protection if one does not frequently piss-off the rest of the world.
Have fun living in a nation that loves to terrorize its own people. It sucks that you live in such a box knowing everyone hates you. Ha ha.
COMMENT #73 [Permalink]
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Niobe
said on 8/8/2005 @ 6:20 pm PT...
Paul and Karla,
Canada does not need American protection. It never needed American protection, despite republican claims (cliche). One does not need protection if one does not piss-off the rest of the world.
Have fun living in a nation that loves to terrorize its own people. It sucks that you live in such a box knowing everyone hates you. Ha ha.
COMMENT #74 [Permalink]
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Rasheedah
said on 3/1/2006 @ 11:12 am PT...
:angry: I think that the discrimination against homosexuals is just as bad as racial discrimination they both breaks spirits and puts down how someone feels. sexuality shouldnt determine whether or not someone can get married who knows same sex marriage just might not be as disfunctional as what we consider to be normal marriages
COMMENT #75 [Permalink]
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Rasheedah
said on 3/1/2006 @ 11:14 am PT...
:angry: I think that the discrimination against homosexuals is just as bad as racial discrimination they both breaks spirits and puts down how someone feels. sexuality shouldnt determine whether or not someone can get married who knows same sex marriage just might not be as disfunctional as what we consider to be normal marriages