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'Democracy's Gold Standard'
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READER COMMENTS ON
"GOP Ohio Miracle of the Moment!"
(141 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
... Sam said on 8/2/2005 @ 9:34 pm PT...
Hackett has made a spectacular debut. Even though he "allegedly" lost this election, I think we should rally around him and encourage his political future. This guy is the real deal. He doesn't mince words and although I may not agree entirely with every aspect of his stance, I am totally on board with his aggressive "get off your ass and do something" approach. We are in dire need of more men and women like him.
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
... getplaning said on 8/2/2005 @ 9:37 pm PT...
Exactly how it happened in the 2004 election. Amazing that no one has said anything about it yet.
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
... David Edwards said on 8/2/2005 @ 9:37 pm PT...
The GOP has figured out the art of counting the winner's votes last.
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
... Harry said on 8/2/2005 @ 9:42 pm PT...
Hackett needs to hand count each precinct book in Clermont County to determine the number of people that actually voted in each precinct. Then he needs to match that total against the number of votes reported. Things don't look right in Clermont...
Also, a spot check needs to take place in Hamilton County. Hackett needs someone to hand count a few precinct books in the more liberal areas of Hamilton and also some of the more conservative. They should be matched up with the number of votes reported.
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
... Vote Vacuum said on 8/2/2005 @ 9:46 pm PT...
Ya' forgot that there was ALSO the obligatory machine crash near the end of the counting.
We just CAN'T count votes without an obligatory machine crash in the last minutes of the counting, now can we???
Wouldn't be.... traditional.
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
... Steve said on 8/2/2005 @ 9:51 pm PT...
Was there a change in the totals posted at 10:40 vs. 2 minutes earlier? I was just curious where you got the 4% change in 22 MINUTES because I was following/refreshing this website by the minute between 10:45 and 10:58 PM EDT and there was no change in the numbers you show for 10:40 during that entire time. The posted time at the website changed every 2 minutes. Then, at 11PM, the numbers suddenly jumped to the 4% final advantage. I guess you could say on that basis that Schmidt gained 4% in just 2 MINUTES!
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
... Phil said on 8/2/2005 @ 9:53 pm PT...
Harry, I hope Hackett does as you suggest.
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
... Jerry O'Riordan said on 8/2/2005 @ 9:55 pm PT...
Jean Schmidt: Just for fun is she in any way related to John Kenneth Blackwell?????
Is this or is this not proof of what we've been insisting all along? Will Hackett pursue an honest recount? It could save the country...
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
... Neo said on 8/2/2005 @ 10:04 pm PT...
Well there were three sites posting three different tallies. one was for the local news another was from Hamilton county which showed them neck in neck then a sudden lead for Schmidt. There are many problems in this election like how the big republican county has a mechanical era with cards sticking together and somehow they were able to handcount by the end of the night? That doesn't seem likely. Then we also have Jean Schmidt on election day standing within 100 feet of a polling place shaking hands and passing out campaign material to voters. Isn't this a violation of election law?
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
... MMIIXX said on 8/2/2005 @ 10:10 pm PT...
just another miracle like 2004 and 2000 but don't worry god helps those who help themselves
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
... jIM cIRILE said on 8/2/2005 @ 10:16 pm PT...
He's already conceded.
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
... Brad said on 8/2/2005 @ 10:19 pm PT...
Steve, if you (or others) have later screenshots from that site, please feel free to send. Those are the ones I was able to capture while doing about ten other things at the same time...
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
... big dan said on 8/2/2005 @ 10:28 pm PT...
Were there any exit poll numbers? Or was the way to fix exit polls not matching final counts, getting rid of exit polls? Were there any?
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
... Jennifer Rabuchin said on 8/2/2005 @ 10:29 pm PT...
With the Repubs squashing anything that looks like election reform, an equitable election has roughly an ice cubes chance in hell... :angry:
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
... river said on 8/2/2005 @ 10:38 pm PT...
Did the number of precincts jump in the last two minutes as well? or, was it even greater miracle, she gained 4% in one or two precincts?
We need to have a million eyes on the midterm elections, I guess.
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
... Phil said on 8/2/2005 @ 10:52 pm PT...
Hackett can recount even if he has conceded, can't he?
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
... Phil said on 8/2/2005 @ 10:54 pm PT...
After all six other counties in the district had completed their ballot counts in what was a low-turnout election, Schmidt’s home county, Clermont, had reported a little more than half of its precincts.
“I have no idea what is going on over there,’’ said Hamilton County Board of Elections chairman Tim Burke. “I don’t know what their problem is.’’
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
... Justin Orndorff said on 8/2/2005 @ 11:03 pm PT...
The 22 minutes gauge isn't the best way to measure the wide change in tonight's election.
The difference between 10:40 and 11:02 is that the final 91 precincts, all in heavily-Republican Clermont County, finally were tallied. While the final 91 precincts had a higher percentage of Schmidt votes (60% compared to 54% in the first 100 p) and a higher turn-out, its a stretch to assume anything devious went on.
More important is that there were reports of Schmidt campaigning outside of the polls in Clermont, handing out nail-files and urging people to vote for her. Someone encountered her on their way to the polls and notified the precinct but they were told that she refused to leave. The person came back, got video footage of Schmidt pandering to voters and then going inside the precinct after the polls closed. Hopefully, this will be followed up on.
Either way, the results were positive. A very strong showing in a very red state, which brings a great deal of hope for us in 2006.
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
... Phil said on 8/2/2005 @ 11:06 pm PT...
Reason to assume perfidy? There is never, strictly speaking, reason to assume, since assuming needs no reason. But reason to be suspicious? Perhaps yes.
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
... big dan said on 8/2/2005 @ 11:12 pm PT...
I guess the 52% Ohioans that voted for Schmidt, were thinking, "We gotta get out there and vote against this f***ing Iraq War Vet!" Schmidt lied about not knowing Mr. Noe of coingate scandal infamy.
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
... Doug Eldritch said on 8/2/2005 @ 11:29 pm PT...
I have even more screenshots....Including these saved.
They at one point show Hackett basically blowing the polls away, and Clermont still not reporting in. Also he was ahead by quite a lot in Hamilton....
I believe a spotcheck of Hamilton and Cleremont is in real order. These are known fraud hotspots.
Also turnout was higher than expected, so it seems pretty obvious that the Clermont County website could fall offline and then come back up minutes later with 5000 extra Schmidt votes....
Plus the provisionals were never even all counted...Before all the votes had been counted, someone engaged in fraud and declared victory. Is this how every race is done now? What the hell?
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
... Steve said on 8/2/2005 @ 11:36 pm PT...
I was watching closely and EVERYTHING (except the time), including the precincts counted stayed the same for the 15 minutes I watched and refreshed the screen. Apparently, they stayed the same from at least 10:40 PM based on Brad's screenshot which was obtained before I started watching. Obviously, the remaining 91 precincts, all posted suddenly at 11:00 PM, went heavily to Schmidt. Certainly, what Justin (#19) says about these all being in heavily-Republican Clermont County could be the explanation.
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
... Doug Eldritch said on 8/2/2005 @ 11:38 pm PT...
Just the fact they are all **republican** only proves that these folks gamed the safe districts.
That's all they want people to look at, that the unusual numbers came from republicans who came running to the polls in record numbers.
But those paying attention know better....The best place to commit election fraud in these elections, is in the safe counties and precincts.
COMMENT #25 [Permalink]
... The Oracle said on 8/3/2005 @ 1:36 am PT...
What did the exit polls indicate?
Was any exit polling done, for that matter?
COMMENT #26 [Permalink]
... River said on 8/3/2005 @ 2:42 am PT...
And what of Tim Burke's comment (see #18). Why should the county that brings all the late votes, be so much slower in counting them? Could it be they wanted to make sure the numbers were 'right', before releasing them?
Anyway, the fact that we cannot trust election results now is the whole point. We need foolproof, tamperproof, suspicion-less elections, or the US is not a democracy anymore.
COMMENT #27 [Permalink]
... teresa said on 8/3/2005 @ 3:50 am PT...
they've done it again, and no one is ever going to stop them what happen to the spine that the dems use to have a recount is needed.
Regarding any recount, the NY Times is reporting Major Hackett "expects to sign up for another tour of duty in Iraq." http://www.nytimes.com/2...3ohio.html?th&emc=th
I might also add the Democratic Party in Ohio doesn't seem to have wised up very much over the last year. Phone banks here spent most of the time calling up Democrats rather than trying to win over other folks. The lists still have bad numbers on them, and most who got called said they'd received 3 or 4 of the same message the day before election. So much time is wasted in bad organization!
COMMENT #29 [Permalink]
... Ram said on 8/3/2005 @ 4:05 am PT...
My skin is crawling and the hairs are standing up on the back of my neck --- this reeks of fraud! All the repugs had to do was take 2000 dem votes and make them look like their own. Maybe ten in each precinct. That's if Hackett won by a slim margin. It would make it more difficult to find the frauds.
If he really won by a large margin, maybe we have a chance to catch them.
If the democratic party doesn't recount, I will never give them another penny or pound the pavement for them-- it is a waste to have that stolen from us by the repugs.
While so many are looking at this as a victory for dems to make such headway in a repug area, I say that it is one more time we have to watch the theives steal something from us--to watch them trample our democratic rights. Why bother to vote at all?
All dems need to demand a recount! And we need to fight over every one of these "close elections" until we put all of the theives in jail!
COMMENT #30 [Permalink]
... Jeff J. said on 8/3/2005 @ 4:21 am PT...
Sickening, isn’t it? The Dems need to develop a strategy where they don’t concede so quickly and request hand counts, especially when the polls shift so suddenly at the end. Anyone know whether Diebold equipment was used?
Another issue that irks me is the GOP issued a statement early in the day claiming they were going to “…bury Paul Hackett…” which is oddly reminiscent of the confidence George Bush had late in the election season in 2004. But unless there are enough of us that get steamed enough about election fraud they’re going to continue doing this.
The numbers...isn't it strange they were "stuck" in the same configuration as the presidential election numbers?
Then the Reper wins....but not until the end? Come on...
COMMENT #32 [Permalink]
... Phil said on 8/3/2005 @ 5:42 am PT...
I would think that the onus would be on Cleremont to explain oddities, considering that apparently they've been caught in outright fraud just months ago.
You know, if I were John Kerry and I heard about my votes being changed to Bush votes during recount using stickers, I'd be seriously pissed. John, however, seems to take that sort of stuff quite smoothly, as does his party.
Why so slow with the results? Why count the votes under lockout? Why the leap in Schmidt's percentage and in numbers (if the projection I read somewhere that the last precincts would come in with 10,000 was correct) in the last precincts?
When are Dems going to learn that the election just starts when the votes have been counted? The Pubs showed us in Washington that they know this?
Basically, why are the Dems so SOFT?! I don't mean Hackett, I mean the party?
Some telemarketing company called me (from the DLC, I think) asking for contributions. I told them no, partly because I don't like to contribute over the phone, but also because I feel that at this point, contributing to Dems is starting to feel like throwing money away.
I've argued against 3rd parties for the last 2 years, but now I'm starting to seriously rethink. Yes, it's true, a third party cannot seriously challenge the Pubs, but then neither can the Dems, it appears.
Not so much that they can't. More that they won't.
My hat is off to Hackett. He seems to have shown us what we could accomplish. If we could make every district that competitive, the sky is the limit on what we could accomplish.
But the lack of organizational support for recount activity in an environment where it seems (to me) absurd not to very seriously consider recount and investigation with every election makes it seem to me that this Democratic Party simply does not have the will to win, the will to govern. And does it even have a meaningful agenda, other than Pub light?
The numbers...isn't it strange they were "stuck" in the same configuration as the presidential election numbers?
Then the Reper wins.... but no updates until 45 minutes from the end? AGAIN? Come on...
COMMENT #34 [Permalink]
... daveM said on 8/3/2005 @ 5:51 am PT...
We lost, but it was so close right up until the end. We really won because it was such a strong showing in a very red area. The counting problem in Clermont county had no effect on the outcome. There will be no recount. No one here has said definitely what type of machines were used.
The above illustrates the frustration, suspicion, and rationalization following a simple election. No one on the losing or winning side really knows what went on with their vote. It also illustrates how hard it is to mobilize opposition within an area heavily favoring one party.
Bravo to all the great people working towards the goals of the Velvet Revolution! I dream of the day when even simple local elections are decided by vote counts that are above suspicion. I have decided to contact by snail mail all Democratic Senators and the DNC to inform them I will not contribute time, energy, nor money, nor votes, until they correct the voting process so that every vote counts, is counted, and can be verified. I vow no participation of support of any kind until they address the voting issue.
That doesn't mean I won't continue to be an activist, it just tells them they (Democrats) have lost all my support. I will remind them each time I contact them about an issue of my non support so perhaps they might realize what they lose when an activist isn't working FOR them. Activists don't grow on trees, and any well run organization recognizes their value.
Bottom line: until Democrats do something for me(fix the voting process), I won't do anything for them.
COMMENT #35 [Permalink]
... big dan said on 8/3/2005 @ 6:07 am PT...
It doesn't make sense, that there was a strong push at the end, AGAINST an Iraq War vet.
Clint Curtis testimony video is the top story on this site I found:
Didn't Clint say there was a "tampering technique" that if the Dem was winning by a wide margin, code would knock it down to 51%-49% in favor of the GOP? I remember that. Has anyone ever done statistics on a rise in 51%-49% GOP victories in races they weren't expected to win?
Also, for the 3rd time in this post, what were the exit polls? Were there any? If the exit polls showed a Hackett win, the 51%-49% Clint Curtis theory holds water. This is just something I believe Clint said in the past, about 51%-49% tampering code. Just something to think about.
COMMENT #36 [Permalink]
... Frankly said on 8/3/2005 @ 6:15 am PT...
The most glaring evidence of this being a stolen election, is simply in the "levy" races. These same levy's have been consistently defeated by large margins in prior elections. Look at the final resutls this time. And these are levy's that raise taxes.
I think this is a strong indication that Hacketts numbers were Hacked.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! ROTFL!!!!!! Here is another election stolen under our noses, and some of you are actually calling it a VICTORY because we were so close! Jesus Christ, what LOSERS!!!
Don't you get it? They will ALL be close! And we will lose them ALL!
COMMENT #39 [Permalink]
... Phil said on 8/3/2005 @ 6:20 am PT...
Davem, I think what I'll do is contribute locally and to the dnc, because I think Dean does (basically) get it.
But beyond that, I'm not sure I would contribute to the Dems at all until they show that they are serious (as I see it) about making votes count.
COMMENT #40 [Permalink]
... big dan said on 8/3/2005 @ 6:24 am PT...
The ones the Democrats won, will always be 51%-49% GOP!
3 questions not answered on this blog:
1. What were the exit polls? You know, the only thing that can't be hacked?
2. What kind of voting machines are used in OH-02
3. Was there an enourmous increase in GOP victories of exactly 51%-49% in the same timeline of the increase in electronic voting machines?
GET TO WORK!
This election was perfect! A small, non-statewide Ohio election, that a GOP liar beat an Iraq War vet 51%-49%. You're not looking at the bright side. A small case study fresh in everyone's minds, before the 2006 nationwide elections, is exactly what you'd wish for...stop complaining!
COMMENT #41 [Permalink]
... Phil said on 8/3/2005 @ 6:32 am PT...
Check yourself, Big Dan. Most of the folks that I've seen are celebrating the fact that we came this close. But that doesn't do anything to change the fact that there seem to be serious questions about the Democratic Party's will to win, intent to govern.
COMMENT #42 [Permalink]
... Dan said on 8/3/2005 @ 6:34 am PT...
I voted in Clermont County and each candidate had a rep outside the school where I voted. I voted at 6:45pm and the hackett rep told me the the ratio was 2 to 1 for Hacket to schmidt. Why would my precinct be so much different the all of the rest. These people are cheating!!!!
COMMENT #43 [Permalink]
... Peggy said on 8/3/2005 @ 6:36 am PT...
I'm with you Unirealist. The Dems are losers all round.
Time to support Cobb. Everyone should write to Howard Dean and tell him they will not support the Democratic Party losers any longer, finacially or otherwise. Dean said he thought it would be easier to reform the Dems than to start a new party. He's wrong. It could take many, many, many years to reform the Dems, if at all. A new party, or joining Cobb starts immediately.
Try Cobb. He can probably do better than the Dems. At least he's a fighter.
COMMENT #44 [Permalink]
... big dan said on 8/3/2005 @ 6:37 am PT...
I'll give you trademark rights to call yourself "BIG DAN II", if you want..........
COMMENT #45 [Permalink]
... Robert Lockwood Mills said on 8/3/2005 @ 6:47 am PT...
Unirealist is absolutely right. I have to vehemently disagree with those who suggest this is some kind of a moral victory.
What do you mean by "GET TO WORK," Big Dan? Get to work doing what? Winning elections, only to have crooks steal them? What good does that do?
The only good I can see from this is that the pattern is almost identical to Nov. 2004. The Democrat leads until the last hour, then by magic enough votes are added to the Republican's column to swing it over.
If this were the Ukraine, people would be pouring into the streets, and American politicians would be sanctimoniously warning that "this will affect relations between the two countries." And we're supposed to "GET TO WORK" to win the next election? Jeez, Louise.
I can't even come up with a limerick for this one.
COMMENT #46 [Permalink]
... Vote Vacuum said on 8/3/2005 @ 6:49 am PT...
Justin said: >
WHY don't you people get it??
THERE IS NO HOPE FOR 2006 UNLESS WE DO SOMETHING ABOUT THESE MACHINES AND FRAUD!
Elections are not very likely won or lost in the last 91 precincts after the machines go down and come back up. And time after time you people swallow this crap and vow to "do better next time."
David Cobb and the Greens had the guts to do the right thing... Come on, Paul Hackett!
And no, a concession is NOT binding.
COMMENT #47 [Permalink]
... Charlie said on 8/3/2005 @ 6:57 am PT...
Well they got us again, the peasants just listened in.
Hooded in my own demise, as the votes are counted from behind closed blinds.
Dare you say revolt, those preposterous thoughts will get you killed.
Peasant rebel, enemy combatant, homosexual, terrorist, your words are not the will of the people, for it seems the people have no will.
So many have fought and died, but are we ready to bleed, thats the question of our lives.
COMMENT #48 [Permalink]
... Frankly said on 8/3/2005 @ 7:02 am PT...
What was needed last night was a "Jim March" at a tabulating computer site, willing to break the law to witness the vote being counted.
This form of civil disobedience, singularly focused on the vote count, is what will push the issue into the media, and into the hearts and minds of the American public.
COMMENT #49 [Permalink]
... big dan said on 8/3/2005 @ 7:19 am PT...
By "get to work", I mean, the people with "the means" to "get to work" should. I can't find Hackett/Schmidt exit polls on the internet (why not?). If there are none, someone like the Cincinnati Inquirer or Toledo Blade, should start calling people in OH-02, and making exit poll data. Specifically, the trend of the past is, those who can do something, don't. Hackett and the Dems have got to put together exit poll statistics, and see if it's reasonable that something funny went on. Why aren't they? I agree with the posts above.
This special non-election year election is a gift, but it has to be acted on. I fully understand the frustration of regular people (like me), who see this stuff going on, these 51%-49% GOP victories, and can't do anything about it. I keep saying, what are the people in Ohio doing about it? I don't live anywhere NEAR Ohio! I can either point out things that don't make sense, and by doing so, get as many others to notice too, or do nothing at all. If this were happening in my district, I'D BE THERE RIGHT NOW! I cannot find any exit poll stats, does anyone have any?
COMMENT #50 [Permalink]
... Ryan said on 8/3/2005 @ 7:20 am PT...
In the final 20 minutes:
Hackett recieved 5,590 votes.
Schmidt recieved 8,293 votes.
Hackett recieved 10.2% of his votes in this period.
Schmidt recieved 14.3% of her votes in this period.
12% of the precincts were not reporting in the final 20 minutes. These precincts eventually reported 13,883 votes, 12.4% of the vote total.
Depending on what districts reported in (Pro-Rep or Pro-Dem), it appears this could have been a legitimate victory. If I were Paul Hackett, however, I'd go for the recount.
COMMENT #51 [Permalink]
... Marlene Dowdell said on 8/3/2005 @ 7:20 am PT...
NEED A RECOUNT!!!
COMMENT #52 [Permalink]
... big dan said on 8/3/2005 @ 7:25 am PT...
If one of those Ohio newspapers does exit polling, and it shows a Hackett victory margin, they can't say they called too many Democrats were "accidentally polled", because the district is super-majority Repubican. Remember that excuse by the MSM? "For the first time in history, exit pollsters accidentally picked too many Democrats to poll."
If (and I say "IF") there were shennanigans in OH-02, the Ohio citizens of OH-02 should be outraged and picketting, because it appears to the rest of the nation, that they chose a GOP liar who said she didn't know "coingate" Noe, over an Iraq War veteran. I wouldn't want the rest of the country thinking that about me and my district. DailyKOS has proof that Schmidt lied about knowing Mr. Noe.
COMMENT #53 [Permalink]
... big dan said on 8/3/2005 @ 7:28 am PT...
Here's a point that must be brought up:
Why did a heavily registered GOP district vote against an Iraq War vet? I thought Republicans were pro-military! SHAME!
COMMENT #54 [Permalink]
... Ricky said on 8/3/2005 @ 7:41 am PT...
Let me help you understand why you lost yet another election.
More people voted for the other guy.
COMMENT #55 [Permalink]
... Jerry O'Riordan said on 8/3/2005 @ 7:45 am PT...
Okay! One last time!
This is O-HIGH-O.
This is your brain on O-HIGH-O.
COMMENT #56 [Permalink]
... Frankly said on 8/3/2005 @ 7:45 am PT...
Thanks for helping me understand, Ricky. Now use your curious thought process to straighten out your gender recognition deficiancies.
COMMENT #57 [Permalink]
... Ricky said on 8/3/2005 @ 7:47 am PT...
A liberal being insulting and negative? How strange.
COMMENT #58 [Permalink]
... Frankly said on 8/3/2005 @ 7:51 am PT...
Hey, little Ricky, did you call me a liberal? How slanderous! You just assumed I was liberal, didn't you? And is it insulting to point out you don't know the difference between a man and a woman?
Negative? You got anything other than buzz boredom?
COMMENT #59 [Permalink]
... Bejammin075 said on 8/3/2005 @ 7:58 am PT...
By my calculations, the Repub got about 60% of the votes in the last 22 min. In this district, I'm not sure that means much as far as being suspicious of the results. Just my 2c.
COMMENT #60 [Permalink]
... Robert Lockwood Mills said on 8/3/2005 @ 7:58 am PT...
I'm not in Ohio, either, Big Dan. But from Connecticut I can see that public protests and insurrection in backward states simply reinforce the G.O.P.'s agenda...these folks out protesting are like "terrorists," don't you see?
Ohio is an anomaly, actually. It has a zillion colleges, so it should be an intellectual bastion. But it has always been a kind of Republican Tammany Hall, state-wide...you've got to pay to play, thus Democrats get subsumed into the system. Meanwhile the rural districts have been taken over by the fundamentalist Christians.
The real "silent majority" are the moderates in both parties. They voted for Kerry. He carried the state, but the Republican Tammany Hall stole it from him. Now they've stolen District #2 from Hackett.
COMMENT #61 [Permalink]
... big dan said on 8/3/2005 @ 8:06 am PT...
GOD came down, and said to all the people trying to expose vote fraud, "What can I do for you?"
The people said, "We need something to bring MSM and public attention to vote fraud".
GOD said, "How about this? I'll make a special non-election year vote, and make the GOP candidate win 51%-49%, obvious fraud."
The people said, "That doesn't sound big enough to draw national attention."
GOD said, "Here's where I spice it up for you! I'll make the Democrat who loses by fraud, an Iraq War veteran, the GOP winner will have just lied about knowing Mr. Noe from the Ohio coingate scandal, and....best of all......I'll make this all in OHIO! The rest is up to you....."
The people said, "Thanks!".
COMMENT #62 [Permalink]
... Ram said on 8/3/2005 @ 8:22 am PT...
This site has the ballot types:
(Entry under August 1, 2005)
Brown County: New optical scan ballots
Clermont: Old Optical Scan ballots
Five others: Punch cards
The Brown County system allows voter to put ballot into machine to check if it is valid.
The Clermont system takes ballots to board office to be counted.
Question: Can ballots "disappear" between polls and board office? Can officials "damage" the ballots before putting them in counting machines?
This is so sick that we have to even question this process! Will we ever feel safe at election time?
COMMENT #63 [Permalink]
... Paul said on 8/3/2005 @ 8:28 am PT...
> It doesn't make sense, that there was a strong push at the end, AGAINST an Iraq War vet
He was a tax raising anti-war anti-Bush liberal Democrat pretending to be a conservative. The polls showed him losing before the election and he lost. Exit polls mean nothing. In my part of town (in Texas), it is mostly conservatives and I have never been approached by any exit poll taker.
States like Wyoming and Utah vote Republican in the 60% to 90% range. Ohio and Florida tend to be much closer to the point of nearly tied. Before 2004, Bush was leading in almost every poll by 2-4%. And Bush won by how much? Hackett was never ahead.
COMMENT #64 [Permalink]
... lag said on 8/3/2005 @ 8:29 am PT...
Ricky...do you think that we should be able to verify the truth of the statement you made in comment #54? Paper ballots? Open election systems? Do you think that our electoral system should be allowed to be a trade secret?
COMMENT #65 [Permalink]
... lag said on 8/3/2005 @ 8:37 am PT...
In which polls was Bush leading by 2-4%?
COMMENT #66 [Permalink]
... dav said on 8/3/2005 @ 8:42 am PT...
that is why the last election was the back breaker- we are now accepting corruption as part of our "democratic system"
that si why captialism, or any other system needs to be cleaned out every other generation. Status quo'ers always wins.
COMMENT #67 [Permalink]
... Paul said on 8/3/2005 @ 9:08 am PT...
> In which polls was Bush leading by 2-4%?
You ladies who read this blog, should be proud that another woman was elected. The National Organization of Women should be happy but I have a feeling they aren't because it isn't really about women, it's really about liberal women. Just like the NAACP, it's not about the advancement of colored people; it's about the advancement of liberal colored people. NOW said women don't lie as in the case of Anita Hill and Clarence Thomas, but apparently Paula Jones lied about Clinton, and the other Jane Doe's lied. NOW has actually admitted they made a mistake, which cost them any credibility they once had.
COMMENT #68 [Permalink]
... Harry said on 8/3/2005 @ 9:11 am PT...
RE: Comment #62.
I lost an election by 200 votes because votes had to be taken to headquarters to be counted. It took me 3 months, but figured that enroute to headquarters, someone threw 400 votes out of the window of the car. The only way I found out was that I hand-counted the precinct books to get number of people who actually had their names checked off as having voted. I then matched it to the vote totals for those precincts to find that 400 more people voted than the tally showed. It was a special election only to elect a new mayor. So the results showed that 400 black voters went to polls and didn't vote but there was only one race to be decided and the black candidate lost. Later it was discovered that there was a star in the eastern sky.
HAND COUNT THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE CHECKED IN EACH PRECINCT AS HAVING VOTED AND MATCH THAT NUMBER TO THE VOTE TALLY REPORTED. NOW!!!
COMMENT #69 [Permalink]
... Charlie said on 8/3/2005 @ 9:11 am PT...
That was exciting, nice to see more vote tampering in the most Free Nation in the World.
On another note, ANYONE have anymore info on the indictments that Fitzgerald may hand down.....that story would make this decade for me!!!
PLEASE share any information or links....
You guys are the best
COMMENT #70 [Permalink]
... Harry said on 8/3/2005 @ 9:15 am PT...
ALSO---If a differernce is found, then randomly call voters that the books indicate as having voted and ask them if they actually went to the polls and voted.
COMMENT #71 [Permalink]
... Terri in S. FL said on 8/3/2005 @ 9:21 am PT...
Hackett conceding means nothing and he can still call for a re-count, just like Kerry in Ohio. Everyone will take this at face value because Cincinnati is traditionally a Con city, but those last minute flips have certainly become a con fixing staple.
We need to start an email campaign to get Hackett to ask for a recount. This WILL cost money, so be prepared to ante up.
Where are the polling numbers (which I no longer trust anyway)?
COMMENT #72 [Permalink]
... Terri in S. FL said on 8/3/2005 @ 9:28 am PT...
And to dipshit paul, Paula Jones was proven to be an opportunistic lier. What mistake did NOW admit?
COMMENT #73 [Permalink]
... Ryan said on 8/3/2005 @ 9:33 am PT...
@ Paul (#67):
Are you smoking something?
Many of those polls found Kerry ahead of Bush. For example, in Oregon Kerry was ahead by an average of more than 5 points.
Why are you assuming all women are members of NOW? Or all black people are members of the NAACP? Not all white people are members of the NRA or the Christian Coalition.
I didn't want Hackett to win because he was a guy like me. I wanted him to win because Jean Schmidtt was corrupt.
Besides that, your point makes no sense. Who cares if a women is elected? We could have Georgette Bush in office and we'd still be in an unwinnable quagmire, still be racking up enormous deficits because of the President's rampant overspending, and still be in a bitter culture war cultivated by the President in order to motive the fundies to vote for him (so that he could give them a tax cut, not anti-gay legislation, natch).
So, my point? Quit listening to Rush and Hannity and try to think things through before you open your yap. You'll sound smarter.
COMMENT #74 [Permalink]
... COLLEEN said on 8/3/2005 @ 9:37 am PT...
I am so emotionally wrung out from following this race. It IS like BigDan #61 said. A small version of national politics.
Pro war Repubs voting against a vet.
Ignoring Schmidt's lies and smears.
Plus, thanks to 2004 voting fraud, no convidence in the Clermont high humidity farce.
The only reason the elections may not have been rigged:
The GOP may not have realized they needed to.
COMMENT #75 [Permalink]
... Observer said on 8/3/2005 @ 9:43 am PT...
Again we observe why the Democrat party continues to lose. If their candidate loses a race then there is no way the candidate or their campaign is to blame. It just cannot be that the contender did a poor job campaigning. It can't be that the contender was a poor candidate to begin with. It must be the machines.
Take the machines out of the race. You do that with 10 point victory margins. And you do that by making political concession to represent people that you may not be political mirrors with. You want to win in a conservative district, run as a Conservative Democrat. Represent those people as their conservative values reflect, but do it with a D next to your name. Just because you run as a Democrat is does not mean you have to oppose every single position the RNC adopts.
COMMENT #76 [Permalink]
... citizen663 said on 8/3/2005 @ 9:43 am PT...
Admittedly, I know nothing about these individuals in Ohio. Being from Texas, I sorta doubt you do either, aside from what you may have googled recently.
"tax raising anti-war anti-Bush liberal Democrat pretending to be a conservative"
I get tired of hearing the same old uninspired accusations.
"tax raising" - Fed Govt spending is WAY up and increasing at a frightening rate. At this point I'd prefer to hear a politician be honest about it rather than lie and raise taxes later, as they all seem to be doing. And you do know that the Fed Govt is controlled by people who claim to be conservative, right? But I'm sure their reason is acceptable.
"anti-war" - not really "anti-war", but anti-Iraq-war, an important distinction, and a very compelling concept comming from a VETERAN of the IRAQ WAR!
"anti-Bush" - What does this even mean?! What percentage of Bush's policies do you have to disagree with to become officially "anti-Bush" or is it unacceptable to disagree with any of them.
"liberal Democrat" - Look, it's the new buzzword for "not republican", new version also encompassing "not neoconservative". Did I say new?
"pretending to be a conservative" - This crap really annoys me. Apparently, if you are a conservative, you cannot have ANY political beliefs that lean towards the liberal spectrum, or you're just pretending. I guess there really are only 2 sides to 5000 different arguments.
"Exit polls mean nothing"
They were consistently close up until what, 6 years ago. They were close going back decades! As soon as they weren't, conservative commentators soaked the airwaves with "Exit polls mean nothing" and you are obviously still parroting it.
COMMENT #77 [Permalink]
... Phil said on 8/3/2005 @ 9:52 am PT...
As supporter of conservation, I resent what I see as the abuse of the word "conservative" by many.
As for exit polls, to say that they mean nothing is basically to say that there is no way to check the validity of elections, apart from trusting the folks who counted them the first time to count them again (and thus replicate whatever mistakes and biases).
But of course, we all know that the right wing was more than happy to use exit polls as meaning something in the Ukraine at the very same time that they were denying thier signifigance in the US.
COMMENT #78 [Permalink]
... Phil said on 8/3/2005 @ 9:59 am PT...
"Again we observe why the Democrat party continues to lose. If their candidate loses a race then there is no way the candidate or their campaign is to blame. It just cannot be that the contender did a poor job campaigning. It can't be that the contender was a poor candidate to begin with. It must be the machines.
Take the machines out of the race. You do that with 10 point victory margins. And you do that by making political concession to represent people that you may not be political mirrors with. You want to win in a conservative district, run as a Conservative Democrat. Represent those people as their conservative values reflect, but do it with a D next to your name. Just because you run as a Democrat is does not mean you have to oppose every single position the RNC adopts. "
Your post simply replaces one simplistic notion of why Dems lose (because of machines) with another (because all their candidates are no good, or not conservative enough).
COMMENT #79 [Permalink]
... Jeff said on 8/3/2005 @ 10:18 am PT...
Congrats to Hackett on what appears to be a 10 point swing. However, I won't give any more money to the DNC until we get verifiable paper trail ballots NATIONWIDE. I agree with the people on this board who state EVERY election we will lose will be 51% - 49% GOP. How long do we have to wait? It's been 6 years and counting. What is it going to take? How much more evidence do we need? Until I have regained my faith in our election system, I refuse to throw my money down on something that is a sure loss. evote states
COMMENT #80 [Permalink]
... Charlie L said on 8/3/2005 @ 10:24 am PT...
It's not just that exit polls were accurate up until the 2000 Presidential election in Florida.
Exit polls have been accurate SINCE then, as long as they showed the results that the Republicans wanted. If they showed otherwise, then they were suspect.
IS there NO reality that you people can acknoweldge?
I just gave $5 to moveon.org and told them it would be $500 if they will pledge to actually FIGHT for a fair count in each election.
I will give Paul as much as I can afford if he will just stand up and say the following:
"I fought for what I believed was right in Iraq, and I will fight to my death to be sure that every single vote is fairly counted in this congressional race, because that is what I was fighting for in Iraq. THAT is Democracy, and I will not allow any single person who cast their vote to doubt for a minute that it was fairly counted, whether they voted for me or my opponent or left their ballot blank."
That is what I wanted to hear from Kerry, and that is what I want to hear from EVERY Democrat who runs.
We can not have justice for these criminals until we have TRUE Democrats in control of congress, and that will never happen as long as there is a partisan and currupt vote COUNTING system in this country.
This is the time for us to stand and be counted. If they didn't cheat, then we will take the "moral victory" of coming within a few percentage points in a district that usually goes 70% Republican. If they DID cheat, then we must prosecute each and every one of them and in those trials, discover WHEN their conspiracy was started. Either way, the voters of Ohio will be able to have faith in the honesty of their political process again, and that is good for EVERYBODY. I can't imagine that Republicans are opposed to the public believing that they were honestly elected?
They should be totally in favor of a complete and total and open recount, unless they have something to hide. After all, it won't cost them a penny, unless they are found to have cheated, in which case it will cost them EVERYTHING, and the price paid by the public for the recount will be well worth it.
This race is either the end of the beginning or the beginning of the end --- we get to decide.
COMMENT #81 [Permalink]
... Ada said on 8/3/2005 @ 10:31 am PT...
Strange how he's winning till the race and as it gets closer to closing time the numbers magically increase to the GOP...suspicious, especially in these times and especially in Ohio! What's Blackboxvoting.org's take on this election, so sad we can't trust any elections any more, this country's system is so F'd up!
COMMENT #82 [Permalink]
... Charlie L said on 8/3/2005 @ 10:36 am PT...
Hmmm. How could I program vote counting or e-voting systems to assure that I always won?
Oh, I've got it... I could set it up so that it counted normally, but if the party I didn't like started to pull forward, I would "flip" votes until my party was back on top. I would only "flip" enough votes from the opposition party to MY party so that my party would end up with 51% of the votes, and then I would stop flipping until it was necessary again to regain my 51%.
I'm sure I could automate that.
Oh, but it would mean that if my opponent started to pull away, there would be a "sudden rush" of votes for me at the end.
But, no matter, if we ever have to recount the votes, I'll make sure I tell the people what the total should be, so that it will match my automated counting or e-voting system.
That should do it.
If it doesn't, I could always have stickers to put over ballots filled out by hand by my opponents and I could "fix" their ballots by putting the sticker over the opposition party's candidate and then hand-filling in my candidate's name.
Yeah, I think I've got it all covered now.
Maybe throw in a few tricks to keep a large number of opposition party voters away from the polls altogether through screw-ups with registrations, changing polling places, or dirty tricks.
Oh yeah, and as many of my opposition that I can get to vote by provisional ballots, those are votes I'll never have to count and the public will assume that they would have broken 51% - 49% when in reality, they might be composed MOSTLY of the opposition, and would break 85% to 15%. But, nobody will ever know.
And the beauty of my system, is it really doesn't matter HOW MUCH my candidate would have lost by, I can make sure it always looks like a squeaker that my candidate JUST won.
I am so proud of myself for thinking all this up. I am SUCH an original thinker.
The only true and safe voting system is hand-filled-in ballots counted by hand by non-partisans visible to the public AT THE PRECINCT LEVEL with results MADE PUBLIC AT THE PRECINCT LEVEL before being sent to a central location for totaling.
P.P.S. PLEASE POST LINKS TO MONDAY POLLS OR EXIT POLLS IN THE OHIO 2nd. THANK YOU.
COMMENT #83 [Permalink]
... Ada said on 8/3/2005 @ 10:37 am PT...
You know what kind of morons vote, there a mother of a kid that is missing in Iraq, she voted for Jean because Jean called her and dropped off a letter from bush and then said you'd think he would have called me too....How f'g ignorant to vote for someone that hold no interest for you in their values just because they 'acted' (keyword) like they cared. I want to puke.....
COMMENT #84 [Permalink]
... Ram said on 8/3/2005 @ 10:37 am PT...
To Charlie L. #80:
Veeerrrrry Eloquent! Bravo!!!!!
COMMENT #85 [Permalink]
... Phil said on 8/3/2005 @ 11:00 am PT...
Maybe if Dems had done something about it years ago when Hagel skated into office on his own machines in a 'miracle election', we wouldn't be here now.
And where are we now? We are watching Dems tell us, by avoiding the subject altogether, or explicitly even, that there is no reason to have any concern or suspicion about vote counting in a county where just a few months ago the vote (re)counters were caught with their hands deep in the cookie jar.
It's like watching one of those hilarious old movies where the rapscallions are so fearless that they barely even try to hide what they are doing, where somehow they feel they are protected by a kind of invisibility, perhaps by what they suppose to be an unspoken covanent amongst thieves.
Is that what it is, Dems? Just a bad movie that somehow has become our lives?
COMMENT #86 [Permalink]
... Charlie L said on 8/3/2005 @ 11:05 am PT...
I know that a lot of "morons" vote. That sounds so elitist, but hey, I went to college and I read books and blogs and talk to people, and many of them didn't and don't and would rather drink beer and watch sports or soaps or American Idol. THAT IS THEIR CHOICE, and YES, they may vote for whomever they want to. That's the way it works. I might not like it, but I will fight to my death for Democracy and the Constitution and Bill of Rights of this great nation.
And I know there are a LOT of them, and even more than the average in southern Ohio. My wife is from there, and her parents are still there, complaining that "the government" isn't giving them the Medicare money they should be getting, and that "the government" is corrupt, and that "the government" is ripping them off, but then voting Republican because they believe every word they hear on Fox. And you can't explain to them that "the government" is run by Republicans and if they don't like it, they should vote for the opposition party, because that would be impossible for them to fit into their small brains (sorry mom and dad --- though they are too stupid to get on a computer).
Personally, I think many of the drunk and stupid also don't bother to go to the polls, because they are really TOTALLY dis-engaged. But, that's what's so nice about the electronic voting and counting machines and a total lack of cross-check of the precinct sign-in books --- THE REPUBLICANS IN CHARGE OF THE ELECTION PROCESS CAN VOTE ON THEIR BEHALF. I guess that's not SUCH a big fraud, since the people WOULD have voted Republican if they had gotten off their couches. And PUH-LEASE, don't start talking about those supposedly bi-partisan local elections boards or I will have to come through the screen and make you read (or read TO you if necessary) and then EAT every page of “What Went Wrong in Ohio and “Essential Documents”.
STILL NEED LINKS TO MONDAY POLLS in the OHIO 2nd OR EXIT POLLS.
Any word from our brave soldier/candidate other than his early concession? If anybody knows him, tell him to call Tom Hartman at KPOJ in Portland because he wants him on his national radio show.
RAM, don't encourage me.
COMMENT #87 [Permalink]
... MrBlueSky said on 8/3/2005 @ 11:08 am PT...
That's what's missing Dav. The Federalist vs. The Democrat-Republican parties gave way (eventually) to the Dems v. Demons (Repub.)
Time to rework this once-Democratic country ASAP!
COMMENT #88 [Permalink]
... Doug Eldritch said on 8/3/2005 @ 11:09 am PT...
I agree with everyone here. This is like a bad horror film. Republicans need to wake the **hell up**, their votes aren't being counted either!!!!
Hackett won 4 of 7 of the most rural conservative counties. Who knows how many republicans were disenfranchised in Hamilton and Clermont? Who can really tell with secret vote counting?
It is **NOT** any longer just democrats getting disenfranchised, these bastards took hours to put the results in. Republicans and Democrats get disenfranchised now, and only NEOCONS are getting counted!!!!!
For the most part, they could ensure neocons are the only ones to get counted so every election is won. Every district would elect neocons. The voting process must be saved, and it must be changed NOW!!!!
Or we're going to see a hell of alot worse very soon!!!!!! It is NOT the candidates, it has nothing to do with the democrats **running the wrong people everywhere** it has to do with the counties counting the votes!!!!!
WHEN YOU ALLOW EVIL PEOPLE TO COUNT THE VOTES IN SECRET, YOU GET DISENFRANCHISED!!!! WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!
COMMENT #89 [Permalink]
... Charlie L said on 8/3/2005 @ 11:16 am PT...
I suppose there are two ways to look at the Democratic strategy of ignoring vote fraud, whether it be Al "Please, don't any Senator stand with the brave congresswoman from Ohio and challenge the Florida results" Gore or John "I'll make sure we fight for every vote and that the vote counting is fair and I've got 200 lawyers in Florida and Ohio ready to go to battle" Kerry.
Viewpoint 1: They are "old school" thinkers, and can't wrap their minds around the level of corruption that the Republicans are possible. They prefer to take the "we can do better next time in appealing to the swing voters" mentality.
Viewpoint 2: They are complicit.
Viewpoint 3: They are impossibly stupid.
Viewpoint 4: They are worried that fighting this corruption could erupt into a civil war between the "reality-based" and the "faith-based" populations.
Viewpoint 5: They know that if the system were totally re-engineered, it might re-engage a whole lot of voters that have been dis-enfranchised by BOTH the Republicans AND the Democrats and are currently not voting at ALL (out of apathy, anger or a little of both), and they are MUCH MORE TERRIFIED of 75 MILLION Greens or Socialist-Democrats or Libertarians or Progressives than they are of the Republicans controlling power for the next 50 years (or the Rapture, whichever comes first).
Personally, I think it's 30% Old School, 20% Stupid, and 50% Terrified.
Just my take.
COMMENT #90 [Permalink]
... Ram said on 8/3/2005 @ 11:29 am PT...
Charlie L: What do you mean "don't encourage" you? I'm loving it :laugh:
And, I have parents just like yours! And brothers and sisters the same, too. Back in PA. You described it perfect!
Thanks! I needed your rants to get me laughing again. I have had a knotted, twisted stomach since I saw the results.
That "fantasy" part of my brain wants to believe that the election problems are okay now. But I feel like the WMD stuff all over again. We are going to keep reliving these lies and corruption --- the fantasy (and hope) get further and further away...and they gain more and more power...and then where are we when the whole middle east collapses?
COMMENT #91 [Permalink]
... Mark said on 8/3/2005 @ 11:32 am PT...
Here is an email I recieved from Daniel Lowenstein when I emailed my concerns. Needless to say I am not happy about this!
"You are either a malicious person, because you think it's fun to
harass people you don't know by being one of hundreds to overfill his
mailbox with identical brainless messages, or you are a nincompoop, because
you act without thinking about what you are doing. Most likely you are
You may rest assured that I will regard any views expressed
by you are the organization that has egged you on with extreme
UCLA Law School
Los Angeles, California 90095-1476
COMMENT #92 [Permalink]
... Mark said on 8/3/2005 @ 11:35 am PT...
Above post issue #91. This is his email
I sent a long personal note at the end of the email I sent him. he never read it!
COMMENT #93 [Permalink]
... Charlie L said on 8/3/2005 @ 11:39 am PT...
Who is Daniel Lowenstein and why were you mailing to him?
COMMENT #94 [Permalink]
... Horkus said on 8/3/2005 @ 11:58 am PT...
Is there any way to check the absentee ballots and compare it to machine ballots? As with the Washington Governer's election? If there's some inconsistencies between the two, then I'd say that fraud may have occurred. There's no exit polling to compare this to so that's all that's left.
COMMENT #95 [Permalink]
... Kira said on 8/3/2005 @ 11:59 am PT...
Charlie L #93
Go back to this thread to understand who Daniel Lowenstein is:
COMMENT #96 [Permalink]
... Doug Eldritch said on 8/3/2005 @ 11:59 am PT...
Here we go again.....
"The ability of the Rovians to pull fresh GOP votes out of [Warren and Clermont] counties certainly challenged plausibility, and, in Clermont's case, almost defied mathematics. Consider the fact that according to the Census Bureau, Clermont's population rose only 4.4% (about 7,800 souls) between 2000 and 2003, while reported GOP turnout increased by roughly 31% (about 14,600 votes) from 2000 to 2004. This in a county that only had about 122,000 registered voters last year, according to the Cincinatti Enquirer.
Others have highlighted some equally interesting data points from last year's election in Clermont:
Three counties in southwestern Ohio – Butler, Clermont and Warren – provided Bush with a combined plurality greater than his statewide margin of victory. These results, when examined at the precinct level, are almost impossible to explain . . . In Clermont County there were 24 such precincts where Kerry received fewer votes than Gore. In Warren County there were six entire townships where voter registration increased by 28% to 79%. In all three counties, Kerry received fewer votes than Ellen Connally, a little-known, underfunded African-American municipal judge from Cleveland, running for Chief Justice. There must have been at least 13,500 voters who supported both Connally and Bush, or else the certified results are fraudulent. In these three counties, and in Delaware County as well, Bush received more votes than Issue One, the constitutional amendment prohibiting gay marriage. There must have been at least 10,500 supporters of gay marriage who voted for Bush, or else the certified results are fraudulent."
The suspicious results are spreading across the web again....... **STOLEN ELECTION**
Come on, there wouldn't be all this bullshit going on if it was a fair vote. If Hackett won or lost fairly, no one would talk. But the vote count is **not** fair, and was not and lets not even pretend for a second!
For crying out loud, Hackett voters were showing up in Clermont county 2 to 1!!!!! I've heard this reported from over 10 people, everyone suspects its foul play AGAIN!!!
How could she get over 6000 votes out of nowhere, when republicans/democrats both were showing up 2 to 1 to support Hackett!??!??
**WHY ARE THE VOTES COUNTED IN SECRET? WHY CAN'T THE LAWYERS OBSERVE THE COUNT?**
COMMENT #97 [Permalink]
... Kira said on 8/3/2005 @ 12:03 pm PT...
Thanks for the link, Doug #96
COMMENT #98 [Permalink]
... vdres said on 8/3/2005 @ 12:04 pm PT...
Lowenstein participated on the Carter committee voting forum awhile back, and the email response from him is automatic. Search the archives for background.
We have to challenge every election result until our rights are assured. Clermont county is one of those magical counties cited in Fritakis' early report:
Clemont's results for Bush were inflated in 04. They use ES&S optical scanners with central tabulators that proved the most problematic in the last election. Only a hand recount will verify Clemont's results.
COMMENT #99 [Permalink]
... vdres said on 8/3/2005 @ 12:10 pm PT...
Hmm. The link help page didn't work. I'll try again.
If the link doesn't work, cnp this:
COMMENT #100 [Permalink]
... Kira said on 8/3/2005 @ 12:12 pm PT...
Technological progress is like an axe in the hands of a pathological criminal. ~Albert Einstein~
COMMENT #101 [Permalink]
... Kira said on 8/3/2005 @ 12:25 pm PT...
He who joyfully marches to music rank and file, has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.
This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is;
I would rather be torn to shreds than be a part of so base an action. It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder. ~Albert Einstein~
COMMENT #102 [Permalink]
... Robert Lockwood Mills said on 8/3/2005 @ 1:00 pm PT...
Daniel Lowenstein is a complete a**hole. From his desk at U.C.L.A. he sent me a series of hostile e-mails a few months back, after I had had the nerve to question him directly.
He has this thing about being "harassed" by people sending him e-mails. Very much like our friend at American University.
COMMENT #103 [Permalink]
... big dan said on 8/3/2005 @ 1:07 pm PT...
btw, MSM headlines should NOT say,
"Schmidt squeaks by Hackett"
They should say,
"LATE RUSH AT THE POLLS TO OUST IRAQ VET"
Excellent comment above, about Republicans being dis-enfranchised. If the heavily GOP district was 75-25 registered GOP, that means half the registered Republicans voted for the Iraq Vet. These registered Republicans may have had it with the GOP cesspool in Ohio, and were looking beyond "party", and wanted an Iraq Vet to represent them, rather that a GOP liar (see DailyKOS/Noe/Schmidt ties).
If election fraud were to ever be exposed, this is it. A bi-partisan effort of disenfranshised Republicans AND Democrats!!! This is the way it was going to happen, anyway. THIS IS THE PERFECT STORM FOR EXPOSING VOTE FRAUD IN OHIO!!!
One more comment: Hackett probably could've run a better campaign, if he wasn't putting his life on the line in the Iraq War, probably dodging bullets, while Schmidt was busy at home, denying knowing the Noe's. Boy, to come back from putting your life on the line in Iraq, FOR THIS?
COMMENT #104 [Permalink]
... big dan said on 8/3/2005 @ 1:12 pm PT...
I'm laying odds, that the GOP presidential candidate in 2008 will win 51%-49%; any takers???
COMMENT #105 [Permalink]
... Charlie L said on 8/3/2005 @ 1:14 pm PT...
Kira --- thanks for the link.
As I read Lowenstein's Biography and Bibliography, it seems he represents a MAJOR part of the problem we have.
He is WAY too smart to not know the facts concerning the way the recent elections have been subverted, IF he would choose to look at them, which I don't think he has done or WANT to do.
He does NOT appear to be "bought and paid for" by the neo-cons, though I suppose, given the costs of housing in Westwood and the little amounts that (even published) professors make, it is quite possible that he has been purchased. He PROFESSES to be a Democrat, but I think that is just so he can present that on the Commission.
He has fought for some progressive causes in the past, but that really doesn't justify his current actions and/or inactions and/or arrogances.
More likely, he just simply wants to BELIEVE in an "academic" sense that our system works.
Pity we don't like in an academic world, but rather one where corrupt people in power can and will do everything they can to further their agenda, and the federal crime of vote fraud is not above their capabilities or desires.
It is people like Lowenstein that give "ivory tower liberals" a bad name.
And to have such an acrimonious and condescending automatic response when you are in a position of importance on a national commission with a sacred mission is nothing short of evil. Talk about a lack of respect for civil discourse.
Progressive students at UCLA should be ALL OVER this and should file a protest with the Dean of Faculty!!! As should any progressive FACULTY.
This a-hole brings disrepute to the School of Law at UCLA and makes me question their training practices. If I had to hire a lawyer, I would check if they had UCLA Law on their resume and put a strike against them.
What a shmuck!
Meanwhile, I want to move past blogging to actually DOING something about this. Still need some poll numbers from Monday or exit polls on Tuesday. Any word?
P.S. Our electoral system has now seen two of the three worst and most corrupt elections in our nation's history take place in the last 5 years. Yes, I do count and acknowledge Chicago in the 1960 election, where the Democratic Daley machine stole the election for Kennedy. Of course, considering what Nixon went on to do after he eventually won, maybe they were right to? WE HAVE TO CHANGE THIS BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE. Given a total lack of accountability, power will corrupt absolutely and our republic will be lost. We will be like the Germans in 1945 saying: "But what could I have done?"
COMMENT #106 [Permalink]
... Doug Eldritch said on 8/3/2005 @ 1:15 pm PT...
Everyone needs to wake the hell up!!!
Especially Paul!!!!!! The board of elections is scared sick, they knew this man was going to put an end to corruption. SO they destroyed as many ballots as possible and committed fraud!!!!!
Wake up people!!!! There was NO other alternative here!!! Thousands were likely disenfranchised. If we expose this now, it could mean the end of vote fraud!!!!
I have no doubt that if Hackett would call for a full inspection of the ballots in this county, and a handcount, the BOE could not deny him it and it would expose corruption.
The results would be overturned, and that lying fascist Paula Hicks would go to jail!!!! EVEN IF HACKETT BARELY WON, I KNOW THAT THE RESULTS WOULD SHOW DIFFERENTLY THAN WHAT THE COMPUTER SAID LAST NIGHT!!!!
But Hackett isn't likely to do anything...He's getting ready to deploy to Iraq. I thought we were the party of fighters?!??? DO WE HAVE TO TAKE ON ALL THE FIGHTS OURSELVES? These people are cowards!!!! We can take them down, if we only act now!!!
COMMENT #107 [Permalink]
... big dan said on 8/3/2005 @ 1:20 pm PT...
THE PERFECT STORM FOR EXPOSING VOTE FRAUD IN OHIO...
He conceded, because he probably didn't have time while dodging bullets in Iraq, to keep up on vote fraud, which is only on internet news, the poor, honest guy.
My theory is this:
If you go back through previous elections that GOP'ers won 51%-49%, in precincts which just switched to electronic voting machines, those 51-49ers are the elections the Dems were supposed to win. Case in point: Schmidt 51%, Hackett 49%. Bush 51%, Kerry 49%. Any others come to mind?
When Bush lost the popular vote to Gore by 3 million, someone somewhere said "That looks bad. We have to, from now on, win the popular vote 51%-49%".
COMMENT #108 [Permalink]
... Doug Eldritch said on 8/3/2005 @ 1:27 pm PT...
Dan- HOW COULD THEY BE THIS BLIND!?!??
51 to 48/9% more than three times in a row?!?!??
The results are FRAUDULENT!!!!! There's ZERO confidence in elections like this, give me a break!!
Do you really believe that many in Ohio love to consistently vote against their OWN interest?
Or for that matter in Florida? Be they liberal, conservative, or libertarian or other?
NO!!!!! It is the minority who makes the illusion appear they are the majority, by using paid off board of election workers to corrupt the vote.
That is what country we have taken up. Even when the democrats win any seats or someone else takes a seat, they BARELY take the seat. Proving these folks are using fraud all the time.
If the board of elections were cleaned out of partisans, this bullshit would end. The neocons are electing their own people all the time and disenfranchising EVERYONE in their own party, and in the other parties!!!!
How the fuck can we just keep watching it!???!? Where is OUR moral values, which means we don't let fraud stand? It is so weak to me, to think we say one thing and do another. If I was running against Schmidt, I would be prepared for her to steal it. Right now I'd be marching into court filing charges and going absolutely into every county, demanding full hand inspection of the ballots.
Regardless if the result changes, I would say the people do not have faith the votes are counted fairly. They would either let me count them, or face lawsuits and WAR.
Why can't everyone be like this!??? WHAT DOES IT TAKE?!??? DO WE HAVE TO GET A REVOLUTION AND THROW THESE BOE WORKERS OUT!??!?? BY FORCE?
COMMENT #109 [Permalink]
... big dan said on 8/3/2005 @ 1:40 pm PT...
Exit polls had Kerry winning the popular vote by 5 million; the final count was 3 million Bush (8 million swing from exit polls to final count). What would give Bush a 51%-49% popular vote win in 2004? An 8 million vote swing, or "rush" at the end, or whatever you want to call it.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, or a cynic...just a realist.
If I was convinced beyond a doubt there was no vote fraud, I'd have no problem with a Republican being elected. I have no faith in our "newage" electronic voting machines.
Newage = it takes less people to change more votes, maybe even 1 or 2, easier not to get caught, less people were "in on it"
No paper trails = no recountability
I saw a funny headline, looking up some of these exit polls from last year. It's so funny, I'm still cracking up about it!
I saw an old headline, which said:
"BUSH VOWS TO REACH OUT TO KERRY VOTERS"
Listen, I was laughing so hard, I almost had my wife take me to the emergency room! I still don't feel so good, from laughing so hard. So, watch out, if you research past election data, OK? Just be careful...
Are there any "spine donors"? Imported ones will do too. The democratic party may need to buy some on wholesale prices!
COMMENT #111 [Permalink]
... Peggy said on 8/3/2005 @ 2:35 pm PT...
Hi, Big Dan #109 - Yes, indeed he did (with a little help from his friends).
BTW - How can Hackett be ready to deploy to Iraq right away? Was he planning to lose?? What kind of soldier is he, anyway??? Getting killed isn't going to help anyone...not one!
COMMENT #112 [Permalink]
... Sherry said on 8/3/2005 @ 2:39 pm PT...
Forgive me if this link has already been posted. I thought it was very interesting and might be an action we may take very soon.
The Battle of Athens, Tennessee
As Recently As 1946, American Citizens Were Forced To Take Up Arms As A Last Resort Against Corrupt Government Officials.
On August 1-2, 1946, some Americans, brutalized by their county government, used armed force as a last resort to overturn it. These Americans wanted honest open elections. For years they had asked for state or federal election monitors to prevent vote fraud (forged ballots, secret ballot counts and intimidation by armed sheriff's deputies) by the local political boss. They got no help.
These Americans' absolute refusal to knuckle under had been hardened by service in World War II. Having fought to free other countries from murderous regimes, they rejected vicious abuse by their county government.
COMMENT #113 [Permalink]
... Doug Eldritch said on 8/3/2005 @ 3:03 pm PT...
I'm game, its just about time to get piling into the streets and get ARMED!!!! Show us the votes, show all us conservatives, liberal, libertarian, progressives....SHOW US THE VOTES!!! SHOW US YOU ARE COUNTING THE VOTES, THAT IS THE LAW YOU SOBS!!!!
COMMENT #114 [Permalink]
... Peggy said on 8/3/2005 @ 3:33 pm PT...
Sherry - Thanks for that. I think if Americans will take to the streets and not leave until Bushco does, then we won't need guns. But...you never know...
COMMENT #115 [Permalink]
... Valley Girl said on 8/3/2005 @ 4:15 pm PT...
Earlier today I received an email (bulk email) from Paul Hackett via Democracy for America with the header "A Victory for Democracy". (DFA supported Hackett.)
-------snippet (part of the message from Hackett):
While we didn't pull out a victory yesterday --- we came incredibly close. We got 48 percent of the vote. And in those results rests hope for the future.
It had been 15 years since a Democratic candidate for Congress received more than 30 percent of the vote in Ohio's 2nd District and decades since a Democrat held the seat. Your support helped me improve Democratic performance by nearly 20 percent. This is a victory for democracy. And if we can do this in Ohio --- we can do it anywhere.
I replied to the email, but doubt that my reply will be read. Then, I decided to post the same as a comment on Blog for America (DFA site). Someone actually did read it!!! I don't know of any other way to contact Paul Hackett (anyone?). All in all, it's a very tame post/comment, but makes some points I know many of you would support.
One part from VG was: "Rather than starting to think about the next campaign ('06, as many of your supporters are urging) you would do a far, far better thing by going to the trenches in America, OH-2, to force an investigation of the counting process in Clermont Co., and perhaps other counties in OH-2. To my mind, this effort would be every bit as patriotic and laudable as returning for another tour of duty Iraq."
The DFA thread is "We're Turning the Tide" (ha!), here. Comments aren't numbered or linked, so you'll have to scroll down to VG. You can post a comment if you are a member of DFA. Might help, can't hurt.
COMMENT #116 [Permalink]
... Kira said on 8/3/2005 @ 4:22 pm PT...
Yay, VG! I also received the email from PH and will be writing him much the same thing you did. Thanks for posting your experience!
Can a group of concerned Citizens do that work --- such as the Green Party? Gee, I hate asking them to do it, but they're already involved and I think it's an ongoing part of their initial work in Ohio.
COMMENT #117 [Permalink]
... Robert Lockwood Mills said on 8/3/2005 @ 4:28 pm PT...
If Hackett thinks his 48 percent represents "hope for the future," his actual vote probably represents heaven on Earth.
Nice guy. But I suspect he's been in Iraq too long to understand how things work in his home country.
Earth to Paul: THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN FROM YOU, GOOD BUDDY! THEY SWITCHED VOTES AT THE LAST MINUTE. YOU WON! DO YOU READ ME?
COMMENT #118 [Permalink]
... Valley Girl said on 8/3/2005 @ 5:09 pm PT...
OT for RLM, limericist
Hi RLM, I wrote a long post to answer some of your questions, back on the "Gergen thread", here (click on this). Kira also posted just above.
COMMENT #119 [Permalink]
... Charlie L said on 8/3/2005 @ 5:15 pm PT...
We probably need to talk to Paul in a language he can understand.
Paul --- this election was about as fair as a Court Martial. (Most military people know just how slanted those are.)
Mr. Hackett, sir, if you are a true patriot, you will fight NOW a battle that John Kerry should have fought in November of 2004 and would have saved us thousands of American lives. It is a battle that Al Gore should have fought to his death in 2000 and saved us 2000 American and 50,000+ Iraqi lives. It is a battle that MUST be fought if we are going to EVER save this country from the "chickenhawks" that run this government.
PLEASE Paul, I know you have given a great deal for your country. Give once more and go to the trenches to prove this was either a fair election or was stolen. Either way, you would do a great service to America and to the future of Democracy around the world, for Democracy will never mean anything to anybody else in the world if we try to impose it hypocritically at the end of a gun when we can't even practice it at home.
P.S. The greens should NOT be the party to challenge this. Only by being the "wounded party" will we have the best standing to require all discovery and all injunctions and MAKE this case happen. Only by being a leader willing to stand up will Paul be able to get people from all over Ohio and all over the country to come and stand beside him if necessary. THIS is the moment of decision.
Maybe Paul is the leader. If he is not, we must hold back all funds from all Democrats who are not willing to pledge to "fight to the death for fair vote counting and not concede until every vote (including provisionals) has been counted and every voting irregularity (no matter how trivial) investigated and resolved." It's that simple... none of the "mother's milk of politics" until they show us a little backbone. NOT ONE MORE PENNY!!!! NOT ONE MORE HOUR OF VOLUNTEER WORK!!!! NOTHING!!!
Fight for the future of Democracy, or you might as well be Liberman --- a Republican in Democrat's clothing.
COMMENT #120 [Permalink]
... Peter Meldrum said on 8/3/2005 @ 5:21 pm PT...
I see Diebold is alive and well in Ohio.
When is the USA going to stop these fraudulent elections??
COMMENT #121 [Permalink]
... Charlie L said on 8/3/2005 @ 5:26 pm PT...
"When is the USA gong to stop these fraudulent elections??"
When the candidate who has been victimized DEMANDS it and WE THE PEOPLE stand behind them and DEMAND it.
And not a moment sooner.
Tyrants do NOT give up power willingly. It must be taken from them.
COMMENT #122 [Permalink]
... Valley Girl said on 8/3/2005 @ 5:34 pm PT...
I doubt that Paul Hackett is reading BB. How to get this message to him? Clock is ticking.
COMMENT #123 [Permalink]
... Hannah said on 8/3/2005 @ 6:16 pm PT...
Do we really trust Clermont Co. officials???
‘Why were there stickers on ballots in Clermont County, Ohio?’
Fri, 28 Jan 2005
By Larisa Alexandrovna
Republished from RAW STORY
Ohio recount volunteers allege electoral tampering, legal violations and possible fraud
Serious new election tampering allegations have emerged from an Ohio county, where witnesses allege that stickers were placed on presidential election ballots, RAW STORY has learned.
Several volunteer workers in the Ohio recount in Clermont County, Ohio have prepared affidavits alleging serious tampering, violations of state and federal law and possible fraud. They name the Republican chief of Clermont’s Board of Elections Daniel Bare and the head of the Clermont Democratic Party Priscilla O’Donnell as complicit in these acts.
These volunteers, observing the recount on behalf of the Greens, Libertarians and Democrats, assert that during the Dec. 14, 2004 hand recount they noticed stickers covering the Kerry/Edwards oval, whereas the Bush/Cheney oval seemed to be “colored in.”
COMMENT #124 [Permalink]
... Doug Eldritch said on 8/3/2005 @ 6:23 pm PT...
I had an idea of creating a huge petition site and getting Hackett into fighting mode because this election was likely gamed.
We can't just stand here with the evidence starting to look pretty bad, he is going to deploy to Iraq.
I don't want him to go to Iraq after how hard he has fought, especially when we need those like him HERE fighting **NOW**
The republicans of Ohio has had enough of stolen votes in Ohio!!!!! I can sense it totally, and he needs to be taking up the fight for his chair! No more!
I reccomend we all get to him before they deploy back to Iraq, and investigate the vote. Kerry rolled over and fled- **But this man said that he does not intend to!**
If he knows that regardless they overturn the result or not, that this is investigated and the illegal fraud or obstruction is sifted through that america will know the truth.....He must do it.
This has to happen NOW!!!! How do we get an organized call for them to investigate? I bet he won, but they will not willingly overturn the results. They are very very corrupt, thanks to Paula Hicks Hudson.
COMMENT #125 [Permalink]
... Doug Eldritch said on 8/3/2005 @ 7:06 pm PT...
I feel like I scream into an open void sometimes, and its just like that scream **IM NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!!!!!!** gets deeper and deeper.
The election was stolen. We all feel it and I can sense it. I knew it the minute the results became too close for comfort again...when they said "its going to be close..."
Red flag for the theft. Immediate and deliberate theft, and I can't shake it off. I'm concerned though that the leaders do not wish anyone to challenge results.....And are aiding the fascists in the White House. I feel as though we will have to force Hackett or someone else to pay attention and lead the fight.
The fact is, I thought he would either lose by a bunch or win. I was prepared to simply enjoy the results of either, and understand the implications.
But when I saw that instead he got super close to winning, and was winning......I got that stomach twisted in knots feeling again. **THE FIX WAS IN**
AND I HATE THAT FEELING!!!!! Don't all of you hate that damn feeling!?!?!? AND I KNEW THE VOTE COUNT WOULD NOT BE FAIR, BECAUSE HACKETT WON!!! DAMN IT!!!
THEY are sick, phony, disgusting bastards. THEY definitely did this theft just to rub it in our faces, can't you sense it.....and they claim that the voters won't do anything.
I have two questions that I would greatly apreciate answers for if you could (tonight):
1. Is there any legitimacy to the claim of humidity delaying the count and if so how can that happen?
2. Has anyone run any numbers on this race other than the source (good one) cited by billmon (Whiskey Bar)?
Thanks, this will be very helpful. Please respond here.
COMMENT #127 [Permalink]
... Doug Eldritch said on 8/3/2005 @ 7:34 pm PT...
autorank: I heard from someone on one of these yahoo groups, say that he was forced out of the polling room and sent somewhere else given the wrong address.
He was a conservative republican, obviously voting for hackett. The false directions led possibly him and 100% of the other voters to have their provisional ballot not count.
NO provisional ballots counted, as far as I read. That is just disgusting.
There's also various reports of people who saw higher turnout in clermont than usual, and saw Schmidt violating election rules.
Email them to and see what you can get from the witnesses. I encourage everyone to email who they can. firstname.lastname@example.org is director at DD.
Many Thanks Doug E.!!!!!!!!
Thus far. it seems that humidity can cause optiscan ballots to stick together. There is nothing that shows it shut down the recount of an entire county...this is of real interest. In addition, the quasi biased (e.g., Frend of Mitofsky) Election Science Institute says that humidity is not a 'major' problem. I'll get more and report back!
COMMENT #129 [Permalink]
... Doug Eldritch said on 8/3/2005 @ 9:06 pm PT...
You have no idea how much I would love to be proven wrong, I would love to feel this was a fair vote count and the votes were counted honestly.
But they obstruct anyone from seeing the process, and are likely to obstruct investigation. This is what makes me lose all faith and recognize that yes, they stole the election again. They don't care and until people figure that out we're fucked.
COMMENT #130 [Permalink]
... m3 said on 8/3/2005 @ 11:33 pm PT...
With all the republican-leaning election fraud... you'd have thought the DNC would have the sense to invest some of it's money in election monitoring programmes so that bloggers aren't the ones needing to grab and collate all the evidence.
COMMENT #131 [Permalink]
... big dan said on 8/4/2005 @ 6:43 am PT...
Hackett should contest this election. It's part of the "Perfect Storm" of exposing vote fraud. No one will attack Hackett in the media for contesting this election, because he's an Iraq War vet. He's got to contest this election! It sounds crazy, but it seems too perfect. Here's how perfect it is: There are no Iraq War veterans in Congress. The media would follow the story of the first Iraq War veteran contesting a corrupt election in Ohio! He's GOT to contest it, or the Dems really do stink!
COMMENT #132 [Permalink]
... Lois said on 8/4/2005 @ 9:01 am PT...
This post is WRONG! I was sitting at DU and keeping track of the voting numbers. Here is a link to those figures at taken at 9:53 PM. If you refreshed the site where the results were coming in, you would get the current time, but until they changed, the voting totals remained the same. By keeping this post up, you are spreading misinformation. Please check my post from Tuesday night.
COMMENT #133 [Permalink]
... Kira said on 8/4/2005 @ 12:36 pm PT...
Ain't it just too strange, M3? Kind of like they're complicit?
COMMENT #134 [Permalink]
... Kira said on 8/4/2005 @ 1:26 pm PT...
Lois, which one is your post? No Lois at DU link you gave.
COMMENT #135 [Permalink]
... Sean said on 8/4/2005 @ 8:29 pm PT...
With Ohio's shakey voting record and such a close margin of victory I think that Hackett should ask for a hand recount.
COMMENT #136 [Permalink]
... Paul said on 8/5/2005 @ 7:24 am PT...
He should have run as a liberal Democrat instead of running as a Republican. He would have lost big time. "You can fool some people..."
"Cry baby cry, watch your mother sigh, you're old enough to know better, so cry baby cry."
> And to dipshit paul, Paula Jones was proven to be an opportunistic lier. What mistake did NOW admit?
Not backing her. Remember, "women don't lie about those things" is what NOW said and Paula did not lie.
COMMENT #137 [Permalink]
... Robert Lockwood Mills said on 8/5/2005 @ 9:46 am PT...
I'm confused. What does Paula Jones have to do with crooked eledctions in Ohio?
COMMENT #138 [Permalink]
... Ram said on 8/5/2005 @ 12:39 pm PT...
He's a rightwing troll. Only knows how to parrot, not to think.
COMMENT #139 [Permalink]
... Kira said on 8/5/2005 @ 12:39 pm PT...
Ummm - isn't that the TIRED OUT attempt to blame Clinton for anything and everything? Lame, I know, but dimwits keep trying.
re #139 Kira you're right. And this dimwit is so lame he can't even quote the song correctly. What a putz!
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