Gee, sounds exactly like WIndows! :rolleyes:

Thank you so much **Microsoft** , now we know who is paying Diebold & ES&S. The biggest frauds in the country, so they can steal our votes.

Doug E.

Well, duh, Americans ... we all know windows and we deal with computers freezing up and we always lose important data. Why is the publica at large so confident in these machines?

How many people out there are able to put 2 and 2 together? That's what's scary.

By the way - kudos to California.

Kira,

Yeah it is even worse then that if you look at this website. The reason so many offices are having trouble with it, is the **people rigging the votes** claim trade secret proprietary software.

http://www.answers.com/t...troversy-voting-machines

By the time someone raises the challenge and catches their act in the fraud, they've already moved the memory cards out and claimed it was an error....

Doug E.

What I cannot, for the life of me, understand is why there is not more attention payed to this:

http://open-vote.org/

If Electronic Voting technologies are to be used, then open and peer-reviewed source needs to be and must be the basis for said technologies. The hardware requirements are damned near trivial.

Really.

With all the republicans going crazy now, and freepers as well repeating the allegations of **voter fraud** ....

Maybe all we need to say is that the **Democrats** are stealing the elections too, and someone working in the BOE office could just "accidently" press the delete key on a republican county.

Ooops! There goes thousands of votes, all disenfranchised. Maybe **that's** all we need to do now, is scream about that fraud. And the ACVR has helped us in this regard, because that will force everyone to demand verified paper ballots.

Remember? A few democrats can hit the delete key and "install a memory card" just as fast as republicans.....Verified paper ballots and hand counts, LETS GET TO IT!!

Doug E.

REMOVE ALL MACHINES, ALL COMPANIES from BALLOT BOX.
The answer is not paper-verified trails either because they will only count those if the election is within 1%, which means they just need to shift 1.01% there way.
Its time to go 100% paper ballots and no optical scanners, just all people with everyone able to wacth them. Canada manages hand counting, so why can't we? We just need to encourage volunteers and not companies to count ballots, and then we do it with cameras watching.

P #6 Paper ballots work fine in Australia, with volunteers counting ALL votes amid the full glare of media, cameras etc!
And no one questions the outcome because it is UTTERLY TRANSPARENT.

Bushwhacker:

That's exactly what we need to **HAVE** all over the USA!!!!! No one would bother screaming fraud from either party, because the vote count would be fair and verified.

So why is the GOP or DLC afraid to have this system in place? What's wrong with completely transparent elections?

What are they hiding, once again?

Doug E.

"What are they hiding, once again?"
Doug, within their proprietory code, who can say?
Most Pollies (these days) share one thing in common, an utter contempt for the democratic process and its traditions.

"REMOVE ALL MACHINES, ALL COMPANIES from BALLOT BOX."
P, 100% agreed! I believe privatized elections are the root problem in your neck of the woods, which has clearly led to bribery, corruption and ultimately election rigging.

I think the world champions must be India. They count a couple of hundred million votes, all on paper, in a few days. Totally transparent, verifiable and trustworthy.

The solution to this is obvious: open source embedded Linux running on hardware that is also publicaly known. OpenBSD would be a good choice since it is the world champion most secure OS. Both hardware and software to be developed as an open source project with everyone in the world able to point out and correct vulnerabilities.

You Americans will crash and burn and become irrelevant for the rest of history if you don't stop these psychopaths from stealing your elections and screwing up the planet. Got it?

This is what we get for our faith in the technological fix to what are human problems - more deeply imbedded human problems.

I've often seen our situation as a Nation today compared to that of a frog that is being boiled alive, but gradually, so that it never knows what is happening and never jumps out of the pot.

Here's a thought in relation to that, as to how we might take a measurement of how close to boiling we are:

As I recall, when the shuttle went up recently, it was openly admitted that engineers and scientists were not sure they had fully addressed the problems that had grounded the shuttle operation in the first place. Yet they chose to go ahead with the mission. In essence, they (as I see it) turned the shuttle operation into a giant game of Russian Roulette.

It strikes me that such a move would have been unthinkable just a few short years ago. Back then, to send a shuttle up whilst having doubts about safety issues would have been a scandal, far from something one admitted openly. To knowingly and openly send the shuttle up without being as certain as humanly possible that everything had been fixed, that everything was utterly safe, so far as humanly possible, would have been unthinkable, crazy, surreal.

Sure enough, once aloft, the Shuttle has had problems with foam and with insulation (I'm basing all this on headlines).

That's how far we as a Nation have journeyed into the Unreal in just a few short years, without realizing it.

That's how far we have come in terms of accepting as normal what would have been considered beyond reckless before.

How close to boiling does that make us?

The reason that 20% of the Diebold machines locked up during the mock election in California is that nobody told the vote-flippers who was supposed to win.

You see, 10% of the votes were flipped from Candidate A to Candidate B. Another 10% were flipped in the opposite direction. These opposing acts of fraud caused the machines to lock up, because Diebold machines only function as designed when the programmer knows who's supposed to win and who's supposed to lose.

OT - Daily Kos refers to the American Taliban. I think it's a description Americans can understand better than neocon. Neocons are religious, authoritarian, racist, militant, extremists, bent on destroying the world - i.e., Bushco's American Taliban.

We're all lab specimens in the giant electronic voting machine experiment.

Meanwhile, a bunch of crooks and liars masquerading as 'conservatives' seize and consolidate power at the public's expense.

Lucky souls, they are, Bush and all his buddies, supported by e-voting companies like Diebold, and others. It's been one hell of a mutually beneficial business deal straight out of heaven?!

Diebold's just as phony as ACVR and Bush. Phony front operation designed to deceive and manipulate, and control, rather than govern and serve the public justly and honorably.

Don #10 - India has just introduced electronic voting machines into their voting process. I believe the voting system is state-run, however, versus under the control of private corporations.

Click here for info on India's voting system.

And here.

Much can be learned of India's government by the fabulous Arundhati Roy. If you're not aware of her, I'd highly recommend you familiarize yourself with her writing and activism. She has taken on issues involving Enron and Monsanto, and how they have bilked the people of India out of billions, and more importantly their livelihood.

With American companies (and other nations) flocking to India it's easy to see why controlling the election outcome for the benefit of the corporations might be high on the agenda for government officials. How to accomplish? Introduce electronic voting into the process? Article above says machines produce no paper ballots, so recounts are not possible. I believe I have seen instances where they have allowed a revote due to machine failure, however. The machines are not centralized yet either.

India's new voting system is one to watch very closely especially with respect to whether there's an increase in number of pro-industry candidates being elected.

Hi Kat,
Back in Jan. (I can't remember now) Hillary Clinton presented that machine --- you know I think it was when Barbara Boxer took a lone stand to contest the vote on Jan. 6.

I saw it then and was interested.

The problem we have here is that there is a collusion between people of both parties and they really don't want fair & transparent elections. As time passes I see that's the only reason for the nonsense and foot-dragging.

Last paragraph of the article:

Especially with this blue-screen problem, you dont know whether its the printer drivers, you dont know whether its Diebolds own code or whether its Windows, or where the problem is, he said. It brings into question the entire system.

That's funny, because the only problem I've had with windows was when my system crashed due to spyware codes inserted. Never had a problem with the printer driver. I didn't even know printer drivers could cause a system to crash.

When is everybody going to admit to themselves the whole thing might be foul?

The mainstream media avoided the story like the plague.

A large segment of the population has not awakened to the fact that the media is "reporting" mostly WH propaganda as news. That large segment of the population still believes that "if it's true, why didn't I hear it on CNN or FOX?" AND "If it's not on the news, it's not true."

The news has hammered out that the elections have gone swimmingly now that we have these electronic machines - barring a few "glitches" (we know there is no such thing as a "glitch") and "irregularities" (we know that means FRAUD.)

The large "dumbed-down" segment of brainwashed Americans have dropped this issue from their minds and just "gotten over it" and "moved on."

We must prove to these people that the mainstream media is shoveling steaming propaganda shit onto their plates. Until then, the regime has the backing of the masses.

Just for the record, here's reading on what was happening back in January. It's been such a long and grueling battle over the months leading up to and since then ... :damn tired:

H. Clinton quote re:India's Voting Machines

Jan. 14, 2005
[snip] You don’t have to believe in conspiracy theories to condemn what happened in Ohio. Sen. Hillary Clinton pointed out that while we’re the oldest democracy, India is the largest democracy.

Using electronic voting machines, 550 million people went to the polls in India, “threw out the existing government, and they did it with integrity.” In America, when we go to the ATM or buy a lottery ticket, paper backup is routine.

Yet when Clinton and Florida Sen. Bob Graham cosponsored a bill that would have required a verifiable paper audit for voting machines, the GOP leadership wouldn’t give them a hearing. [snip]
~~~
Thank You Patriot .com
~~~
Public Domain Voting

A group of senators and representatives including Hillary Clinton, John Kerrry, and Tubbs Jones, have proposed an 'open-source' voting bill (pdf). This bill (The Count Every Vote Act of 2005) corrects many of the problems in the last election. Notably, it requires paper receipts, and that the source and object code of all electronic voting machines to be open and readable by the public:

Any voting system containing or using software shall disclose the source code, object code, and executable representation of that software to the Commission, and the Commission shall make that source code, object code, and executable representation available for inspection upon request to any citizen.
~~~
AND this has been my mantra for years (when will they listen?)

Machine-free, Canadians swiftly hand-count their 13 million ballots

Read about Jim March's continuing saga:

BBV Forums - San Diego Backs Down on Charges

[snip] "* They hooked the GEMS server up to the internet through a "firewall" - but firewall (actually "router") security has come under serious fire of it's own of late. Cisco systems has an 80% market share in routers (which if configured for one-way data flow become firewalls) and has suffered from a shocking pattern of security problems rather similar to Diebold's.

They use proprietary software inside, outside "hackers" in their case got ahold of their source code (twice) and whistleblowers have come forward pointing out gross flaws. Like I said, Diebold all over again. And it's a real good bet the "firewall" is a Cisco box - we'll confirm that for sure in short order. " [snip]

"Federal Whistle Blower Claims Chicago Grand Jury Indicted Bush And Others For Perjury and Obstruction Of Justice; U.S. Attorney's Office Says 'No Comment,' Refusing To Confirm Or Deny Alleged Indictments
Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald's investigation into the Valerie Plame-CIA leak has now spilled over into Bush administration lies involving 9/11 and the war in Iraq, according to sources close to the Chicago probe.
August 2, 2005

By Greg Szymanski

Sources close to the Chicago federal grand jury probe into perjury and obstruction charges against President Bush and others said indictments were handed down this week, but a spokesman for the U.S. Attorney’s Office of the Northern District of Illinois refused to comment.

“We are not talking about any aspect of this case and our office is not commenting on anything regarding the investigation at this time,” said Randall Sanborn from the office of U.S. federal prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald, the attorney conducting the grand jury probe into whether Bush and others in his administration violated federal law in a number of sensitive areas, including the Valerie Plame CIA leak case, involvement in 9/11 and the illegal nature of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

In December 2003, Fitzgerald was named Special Counsel to investigate the alleged disclosure of the identity of who leaked information in the Plame case, but the present grand jury probe has expanded to include the wide-reaching crime allegations as new information surfaced.

Although the U.S. Attorney’s office in Chicago is staying silent, it is well known that Fitzgerald is digging deep into an assortment of serious improprieties among many Bush administration figures based, in part, on subpoenaed testimony provided by former Secretary of State Colin Powell.

According to federal whistleblower Tom Heneghen, who recently reported on www.truthradio.com, Powell testified before the citizen grand jury that President Bush had taken the U.S. to war illegally based on lies, which is a capital crime involving treason under the U.S. Code.

“Regarding the Powell testimony, there is no comment,” said Sanborn.

However, sources close to the federal grade jury probe also allegedly told Heneghen a host of administration figures besides Bush were also indicted, including Vice-President Richard Cheney, Chief of Staff Andrew Card, Cheney Chief of Staff I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez, former Attorney General John Ashcroft, imprisoned New York Times reporter Judith Miller and former Senior Cheney advisor Mary Matalin.

Heneghen, unavailable for comment and first reported by internet reporter Tom Flocco, allegedly also told sources White House Advisor Karl Rove was indicted for perjury in a major document shredding operation cover-up and that Prime Minister Tony Blair was also indicted for obstruction of justice charges.

Heneghen also claimed that Blair failed to honor a subpoena issued by Fitzpatrick and is now consulting with British legal counsel on how to avoid appearing in Chicago.

In recent weeks, there has been much controversy over Fitzgerald’s wide reaching probe which is extending far beyond the Bush administration to include what some have called “a wholesale cleansing” of a crime-laden White House and Congress.

Fitzgerald’s investigation is said to be also centered on members of the 9/11 Commission, members on both sides of the isle in the House and Senate and also select high-powered members of the media.

Needless to say, members close to the administration are ‘fighting mad” with Fitzgerald and reports on Capital Hill are that Senate intelligence Committee Chairman Pat Roberts is trying to derail Fitzgerald’s probe by calling him to testify before the Senate regarding his true motives behind the investigation.

Political observers are now wondering whether administration-friendly Republican legislators, some under investigation themselves, are conspiring like President Nixon did in Watergate with Special Prosecutor Archibald Cox, attempting to fire Fitzgerald in the same manner in order to cool the heat on further investigations into Bush administration crimes.

Last week, other sources close to the investigation said the recent bomb scare in the subway under the Dirksen Federal Building, coincidently near where Fitzgerald was holding his grand jury hearings, raised serious questions as to whether government operatives loyal to Bush were sending the zealous prosecutor a “warning message” that he was entering murky waters with the extent of his investigation.

The bomb scare was reported to local police late Monday afternoon, July 18, causing the subway to be evacuated for approximately 45 minutes while bomb sniffing dogs and swat team members searched for what was reported to be “a suspicious package” left on one of the subway cars.

Besides Fitzgerald’s probe into Bush administration lies relating to 9/11, the war in Iraq and the CIA-Valerie Plame leaks, he is also looking into a huge drug money laundering operation involving both the Clinton and Bush administrations with ties reaching all the way to Arkansas.

Fitzgerald began serving as the U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Illinois in September, 2001. He was initially appointed on an interim basis by former Attorney General John Ashcroft before being nominated by President Bush.

The U.S. Senate confirmed his nomination by unanimous consent in October 2001. In December 2003, he was named Special Counsel to investigate the CIA- Valerie Plame case.

Greg Szymanski

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STORY HERE

Or, as the electronic voting machine screen said,

"are we having fun yet?"

When the wrong people's ox gets gored then they'll seek to change the system. But, until then we can count on the Crooks in Charge (CiC) keeping things just the way they are.

People might consider challenging the system with lawsuits, but one needs pretty good evidence the system is flawed to have even a chance of winning such cases. That's where BlackboxVoting is useful. They gather the hard evidence and, I suppose, in some cases, they're taking it to court too.

Hit 'em where it hurts, their wallets and do it with court cases which circumvent the Crooks in Charge (both Repubs and Dems) to get what the Public needs and would want if they'd ever been informed by the press of what's going on.

More legal cases showing up the crooks and forcing the hand of government to get rid of crooks and to institute a good voting system would be great.

Absolutely, MarkH. Our only option is to keep chipping away at the facade until the masses can actually see the corruption.

More and more Republicans are jumping ship --- we can only hope the trend continues, and with more eye-opening legal cases appearing each day, there does appear to be a glimmer of hope.

All the neo-Cons need now is another Pearl Harbor.

Japan's had many troubles with the machines.

I suspect India has had a lot more problems with their machines than what corporate media is reporting.

When did the US start using the electronic voting machines ?

What's the failure rate of a plain paper ballot?

I AM SICK AND TIRED OF BEING SICK AND TIRED ABOUT THIS CRAP.......

ANY ELECTED OFFICIAL (gop OR DEM) THAT REFUSED TO FIGHT FOR OR FIX THE ELECTION SYSTEM BEFORE THE 2006 ELECTION IS OFFICALLY A PUSSY AND KNOWINGLY WANTINGLY CAPABLE OF USING THE FRAUDULENT SYSTEM TO THEIR ADVANTAGE!

See all you pissed off citizens in WASHINGTON DC on SEPT 24th...BE THERE TOO, stop traffic, make the news pay attention.....so elected officials will start to care (isn't that statement f'd up that elected officials only care when it hits the news and not prior...)

To #26, it started with the first fraud in Nebraska and spread like herpes after the 2000 chad incident, was it all a plan...I think...no I know so!

GWN #26:

Try this interesting link: (By the way --- according to this the first DRE machines were used in 1996.)

Generic History of Voting Machines in US

Thanks Ada and Kira. I am saving all this info incase Canada ever decides to stop using paper ballots.