READER COMMENTS ON
"Sheehan Returns to a Growing Protest in Crawford"
(35 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
said on 8/25/2005 @ 3:17 pm PT...
Keep up the good work protesters ... someone has to give another option to the Hitler worshipping fascist neoCons.
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
said on 8/25/2005 @ 3:58 pm PT...
Thank you for finding and posting these links, David! Great stuff!
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
said on 8/25/2005 @ 4:18 pm PT...
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
said on 8/25/2005 @ 5:22 pm PT...
That lady in the :Toolz of the New School blog" video has to be the most patient person I have ever seen.
Kira, Thanks to you I got that pix up at todays open blog now. Thanks again. Check out the link in my post after that one.
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
said on 8/25/2005 @ 6:07 pm PT...
Where (and how) do these people get SO brainwashed? Anybody know of any studies done on how long it takes to completely brainwash someone?
Did you hear her instant flip to ABORTION when she couldn't make any inroads with the Iraq war topic? What if the anti-war protester had come back with some of these choice scriptures from Leviticus?
Dear President Bush
[snip] 11/26/04 "ICH" --- Congratulations on your election victory and for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from you and understand why you would propose and support a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage. As you said, "in the eyes of God marriage is based between a man a woman." I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18.22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.
However, I do need some advice from you regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how best to follow them.
[For instance] ... 10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Leviticus 19.19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Leviticus 24.10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, as we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Leviticus 20.14) [snip]
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
said on 8/25/2005 @ 6:08 pm PT...
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
said on 8/25/2005 @ 6:40 pm PT...
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
said on 8/25/2005 @ 6:46 pm PT...
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
said on 8/25/2005 @ 6:48 pm PT...
George W Bush and right wing "Christians" do not revere or follow Jesus.
They follow Torquemada and Scrooge.
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
said on 8/25/2005 @ 7:09 pm PT...
""An emaciated, goateed figure in a threadbare bush jacket and frayed rubber sandals, Ho Chi Minh cultivated the image of a humble, benign "Uncle Ho." But he was a seasoned revolutionary and passionate nationalist obsessed by a single goal: independence for his country. Sharing his fervor, his tattered guerrillas vaulted daunting obstacles to crush France's desperate attempt to retrieve its empire in Indochina; later, built into a largely conventional army, they frustrated the massive U.S. effort to prevent Ho's communist followers from controlling Vietnam. For Americans, it was the longest war ó and the first defeat ó in their history, and it drastically changed the way they perceived their role in the world.
To Western eyes, it seemed inconceivable that Ho would make the tremendous sacrifices he did. But in 1946, as war with the French loomed, he cautioned them, "You can kill 10 of my men for every one I kill of yours, yet even at those odds, you will lose and I will win." The French, convinced of their superiority, ignored his warning and suffered grievously as a result. Senior American officers similarly nurtured the illusion that their sophisticated weapons would inevitably break enemy morale. But, as Ho's brilliant commander, General Vo Nguyen Giap, told me in Hanoi in 1990, his principal concern had been victory. When I asked him how long he would have resisted the U.S. onslaught, he thundered, "Twenty years, maybe 100 years ó as long as it took to win, regardless of cost." The human toll was horrendous. An estimated 3 million North and South Vietnamese soldiers and civilians died.""
"To occupy Iraq would instantly shatter our coalition, turning the whole Arab world against us and make a broken tyrant into a latter-day hero ... assigning young soldiers to a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning them to fight in what would be an un-winnable urban guerilla war. It could only plunge that part of the world into even greater instability."
George Bush Senior
A World Transformed, 1998
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
said on 8/25/2005 @ 7:31 pm PT...
Watched the video
The people wrapped in the flags are brain washed hypocrites, my mother argued just like that till she wouldn't talk to me anymore
She figured it out after the Swift Boating of Kerry
She woke up one day and said to me (suprisingly) that they probably had Wellstone Knocked off because he would be a thorn in their side for the war run up & the PNAC agenda, I have no idea how she got that info, she
has no computer, only the Star & Tribune, guess there was enough in the paper to get it
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
said on 8/25/2005 @ 9:07 pm PT...
Maybe there is a God after all.
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
said on 8/25/2005 @ 9:57 pm PT...
Re: video "Toolz of the New School blog"
The pro-war woman who had never been to Iraq wouldn't listen to the woman who had been to Iraq. The pro-war woman insists the Iraqis are loving the way bu$h is running this war, because he is bringing freedom and democracy to the Iraqis. He is liberating them from the evil dictator.
Listen to this:The Road to Falluja
Then listen to the Toolz of the New School blog video again.
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
said on 8/25/2005 @ 10:03 pm PT...
Big Dan #10
Fortunatly I had a very hip Poly Sci instructor my Senior year of high school. He kept a map of Vietnam with the word PAX written across it. He taught us of the centuries of tribal wars and the French Imperialism etc.
That was 1967, when I began my Anti-war stance and became active in the protests of the time.
Believe it or not prior to that I was a young republican.
Oh my god, can't believe I actualy said that. LOL
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
said on 8/25/2005 @ 11:06 pm PT...
False Freedom Isn't Free
By Cindy Sheehan
[snip] Iraq has been the tragic Lie of Historic Proportions of Washington, DC since before the first Gulf war. For years, Saddam was one of our government's propped up and militarily supported puppets. Many people have seen the famous footage of Donald Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam. I suppose the two are smiling so big for the cameras because they are kindred spirits. After all of the hand-shaking and weapon brokering, when did Saddam become such a bad guy to Bush, Cheney, Halliburton and Co.? (Insert your favorite reason here). [snip]
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
said on 8/25/2005 @ 11:56 pm PT...
NEWSHOUNDS - We watch FOX so you don't have to.
Hannity & Colmes Ignores Developments In Iraq While Attacking Cindy Sheehan For Not Supporting The Troops
[snip] 2. Iraq is going to be an Islamic state and the U.S. is not going to object. According to the Guardian Unlimited,
According to Kurdish and Sunni negotiators, the US ambassador, Zalmay Khalilzad, proposed that Islam be named "a primary source" and supported a wording which would give clerics authority in civil matters such as divorce, marriage and inheritance.
If approved, critics say that the proposals would erode women's rights and other freedoms enshrined under existing laws. "We understand the Americans have sided with the Shias. It's shocking. It doesn't fit with American values," an unnamed Kurdish negotiator told Reuters. "They have spent so much blood and money here, only to back the creation of an Islamist state."
...But none of that was considered newsworthy on Hannity & Colmes. Nor was the speech by the maliciously-maligned president discussed. Instead, we heard all the details about what the Prime Minister of Aruba may or may not have said about what that country plans to do about finding Natalee Holloway.
I thought tears were going to well up in Morgan's eyes after Colmes told her that "61% of the American people... more and more people agree with Cindy Sheehan philosophically than agree with President Bush on this." [snip]
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
said on 8/26/2005 @ 1:59 am PT...
The GOP "grassroots" (whitewash) effort always has me in stitches... it's always funded by the GOP, has GOP operatives involved and then starts claiming it's "non-partisan"... as it attacks the left, the center, the gays, the dissenters, the atheists, the theists of other religions, staticians, scientists, mothers of children needlessly slain in GWB's PNAC-fuelled oil-grab invasion...
Almost all GOP-funded "grassroots" campaigns end up being little more than ignorant, falsified, hateful smear campaigns aimed at de-railing genuine grassroots efforts... (ACVR anyone?!?!)
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
said on 8/26/2005 @ 4:46 am PT...
Rightwingers, like the ones in my family, always seem to pick and choose which Bible verses to take "literally" and which to take a little more metaphorically or contextually. One of my favorite examples is the stipulation that we are to turn the other cheek. How many super religious right wingers follow that one? Literally or metaphorically?
But what makes it all the more ridiculous is that the Jesus of the Bible is an aphoristic teacher all the way. He doesn't lay out treatises. One is clearly meant to absorb the spirit of his teachings and at times he seems to be fairly explicit on this point.
That's why one day you can pick up the Bible and get the feeling that it is made of stone, another day it seems to open up like a butterfly.
Rightwingers will always take refuge behind the abortion issue for a simple reason. It is a winner. The great tragedy of the Democratic party is that it has somehow morphed into the Abortion party. Abortion seems to be the one issue that Dems agree on. Even the formulation "safe, legal, rare" is not really effectively agreed upon by most Dems, because social justice and economic well being for all are not accepted as crucial issues by many so called moderate Dems (who arguably are really just Republicans in Dems clothing).
I think that most Americans think that Abortion should be legal, but that it is wrong, that it is a terrible thing. As I see it, the only way Dems can take the Abortion issue away from the Pubs as a sort of ace in the hole is by getting real about the "rare" part of "safe, legal, rare".
But they can't do that without a deeper commitment to social and economic justice and well being for all.
There is, basically, a conflict between the desire of some elements of the party to drift rightwards on economic issues and the desire of some elements of the party to recommit to a leftward movement on those issues. I think this conflict will continue to hobble the party until a split finally ocurrs.
Once the Dems who really want to be Republicans finally leave the party, I think the Party will actually grow stronger. I think there is a grassroots out there that is viscerally aware that things aren't so great in Kansas, that wants a real alternative to the Pubs.
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
said on 8/26/2005 @ 6:25 am PT...
I think people don't understand, you can't win a guerilla war. It's impossible. It gets me angry when pro-warmongers say we have to "finish the job". That's why I posted that Ho Chi Minh comment above. The object of guerilla warfare isn't who has the most sophisticated weapons, or who kills the most. Minh said that he would take 10 deaths for every 1 occupier death, and would continue for 20...or 100 years, however long it would take to outlast the occupier.
You can't win a guerilla war, as George Bush Senior stated so eloquently.
And I saw Christopher Hitchens on Jon Stewart last night. I actually thought he was pretty smart, until last night. He said we should finish the job there. You can never finish the job in a guerilla war. He's totally discredited, in my book. It's not up for debate, you can't win a guerilla war.
Again, I point out that the mainstream media isn't pointing out that George Bush Senior said the quote above. If I wanted, I could post every day proof that our mainstream media is "controlled". And the biggest story of all, is if someone would tackle the story of outing the mainstream media.
On all the investigative blogs, how come none have ever done a story on outing the mainstream media, the top of the pyramid that allows all other corruption to occur?
Now we find that TIME magazine knew about Rove/Libby being involved in the Plame outing, and they knew it before the presidential election. Therefore, TIME magazine allowed voters to vote for Bush believing the administration's claims of not being involved in it. And the NYTimes squashed a story before the election, where Bush clearly had some device in his jacket, some huge device which would clearly have been a debate violation. Too bad Kerry didn't walk right over to him during the debate, and rip his jacket off! He would've won the election right there, and embarrassed Bush.
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
said on 8/26/2005 @ 6:32 am PT...
If Kerry ripped off Bush's jacket during the debate and exposed that illegal contraption, Judith Miller would've written a NYTimes article that Kerry lost the debate because he ripped off Bush's jacket!
I notice the mainstream media will print pudit's interpretations of Cindy Sheehan's words, but won't print her very small speeches with no puditry. Have you seen any of Cindy Sheehan's very short essays or speeches printed in entirety in any newspapers? I haven't. And she represents the majority of Americans.
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
said on 8/26/2005 @ 7:57 am PT...
What is the meaning of "finish the job" anyway? What's the "job"? Isn't that basically what Cindy is asking?
I think many Americans are proudly captive to what could be a great national and cultural trait - "getting the job done", but, unfortunately, the job is usually chosen by a power elite with a blinded mission and selfish agenda and is often patently brutal. But the facts are overlooked and thought is stopped dead at "getting the job done".
We use napalm and DU to "get the job done". We murder millions of southeast Asians and tens of thousands of Iraqi citizens to "get the job done". Many of the troops interviewed when we went into Iraq stated that the had a "job" to do - and that was enough for them.
What is the "job"?
I have ideas for some jobs. How about building a sustainable society that can survive for centuries? How about dismantling a political power structure sustained by bribery and greed? How about building a grass-roots culture that will grow and displace the power elite that is sapping everything good out of our country and smothering the earth?
Let's get the job done.
And, of course, let's bring the current neocon gangsters and corporate cronies to justice along with their enablers.
Let's get the job done.
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
said on 8/26/2005 @ 9:48 am PT...
Big Dan - Listen to Brad Show Archive interview with Bob Koehler. Date 4/16/05 Hour 4 and 5/7/05 also Hour 4 --- regarding the complicity of the MSM. He talks about it.
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
said on 8/26/2005 @ 9:51 am PT...
Big Dan #21
Remember before the debates the bu$h people said, "NO cameras from the back" (of Kerry/bu$h) --- but a maverick put cameras in the back. Why didn't they want cameras in the back? Maybe because of the "hump?"
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
said on 8/26/2005 @ 10:20 am PT...
Add to #23 list:
The Silent Scream of Numbers by Robert Koehler:
[snip] The media are not on our side. The politicians are not on our side. Itís just us... [snip]
COMMENT #25 [Permalink]
said on 8/26/2005 @ 11:00 am PT...
Can anyone tell me exactly the number of people protesting against Bush and the war? Is it 50? Is it 100?
Please be honest.
How many are supporting Bush? I understand this weekend there may be a bunch.
I've looked at video and listened to the crowd listening to Baez and it sounds like 25 to 50 people.
COMMENT #26 [Permalink]
said on 8/26/2005 @ 11:53 am PT...
There are thousands of people across the country in similar protests. Maybe you should ask yourself what you consider a bunch. If you consider a whole 30 people at the anti-sheehan protest a bunch then I'd say you have a numbers problem.
COMMENT #27 [Permalink]
said on 8/26/2005 @ 12:02 pm PT...
Not O/T ... still part of our protest:
Examiner Editorial - Term limits for justices (Who wants senile judges?)
Although the Founding Fathers - wisely - mandated that Supreme Court justices should not face a public election in order to shield them from political pressures, they never specifically called for lifetime appointments. As stated in the Constitution, justices "shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour." It's hard to imagine that they would be in favor of the lengthy terms justices now serve. The first 10 justices served, on average, less than 10 years. From 1971 to 2000, however, justices served an average of 25.5 years.
The results of these prolonged stays have not been good. Their workload and productivity has decreased (where they, in the 1970s, once decided more than 100 cases per year, they now only weigh in on fewer than 80). Thanks, in large part, to the cushy life the court provides its justices, members have stayed on the court well after their mental faculties - i.e. their "good behaviour" - were exhausted (in the 1970s, for example, the court agreed to nullify Justice William Douglas' votes during his last 10 months since a stroke had left him debilitated). And, although they were always meant to stay above the political fray, they've perpetuated their own aloof reputation by shutting out the public from court proceedings and inner workings (they forbid television, still cameras and tape recorders, make few, if any public appearances and allow only the most perfunctory visits to their courtroom). ***more***
COMMENT #28 [Permalink]
said on 8/26/2005 @ 2:16 pm PT...
COMMENT #29 [Permalink]
said on 8/26/2005 @ 5:38 pm PT...
As I wrote to the AL, our country was founded on protest and protesters. We dumped tea to protest the tea tax. Didn't we also do some guerilla (sp) fighting also - the Swamp Fox? (My history is fuzzy!) Protesting makes people think which is what this country needs. How can anybody believe the horses**t "democracy in the Middle East". If a country wants democracy, it comes from the people in that country - it comes from within, not jammed down their throats because an insane idiot wants something they have -oil. There aren't enough men, women, and children in this country to bring democracy to the Middle East. That in itself is an insane statement! bush is far more dangerous than Saddam ever was!
COMMENT #30 [Permalink]
said on 8/26/2005 @ 5:43 pm PT...
Cindy Shaheen has a way of saying things that is so powerful I can't get over her. She is our voice. Nothing the repubs. try to put up against her helps their cause. I think bush's poll numbers have gone down due to this good woman and the thousands of good people supporting her.
COMMENT #31 [Permalink]
said on 8/26/2005 @ 6:38 pm PT...
GoldStar Family Member to 'American Legion'
[snip] America Legion's Attack on Dissidents, A Gold Star Families for Peace Member's Response
Diana Rowe Pauls
Gold Star Families For Peace
Sister of Marine KIA/Member of American Legion Auxiliary
Dear Honorable Commander Cadmus,
I learned today that the American Legion passed Resolution 3, which states: "The American Legion fully supports the president of the United States, the United States Congress and the men, women and leadership of our armed forces as they are engaged in the global war on terrorism and the troops who are engaged in protecting our values and way of life."
I would like to bring to your attention a previous position from the American Legion.
In 1999, the American Legion wrote the following letter to President Clinton:
The American Legion, a wartime veterans organization of nearly three-million members, urges the immediate withdrawal of American troops participating in "Operation Allied Force.''
The National Executive Committee of The American Legion, meeting in Indianapolis today, adopted Resolution 44, titled "The American Legion's Statement on Yugoslavia.'' This resolution was debated and adopted unanimously.
Mr. President, the United States Armed Forces should never be committed to wartime operations unless the following conditions are fulfilled:
That there be a clear statement by the President of why it is in our vital national interests to be engaged in hostilities;
Guidelines be established for the mission, including a clear exit strategy;
That there be support of the mission by the U.S. Congress and the American people; and
That it be made clear that U.S. Forces will be commanded only by U.S. officers whom we acknowledge are superior military leaders.
It is the opinion of The American Legion, which I am sure is shared by the majority of Americans, that three of the above listed conditions have not been met in the current joint operation with NATO ("Operation Allied Force'').
In no case should America commit its Armed Forces in the absence of clearly defined objectives agreed upon by the U.S. Congress in accordance with Article I, Section 8, of the Constitution of the United States. [snip]
COMMENT #32 [Permalink]
said on 8/26/2005 @ 9:21 pm PT...
That is really a wonderful letter from Diana Rowe Pauls. It's nice that she is a member of the American Legion Auxiliary, too.
COMMENT #33 [Permalink]
said on 8/27/2005 @ 5:37 am PT...
Melanie Morgan is one of the members of Move Forward America and slimmers of Cindy Sheehan.
Move Forward America is founded by 5 people, 4 of the 5 have all worked for Republican groups.
UNBIASED AND UN PARTISIAN - RIGHT !
Melanie's support of your kids and mine is serving coffee and cookies to the troops...Wonder if she bothered to send ONE ceramic vest to one soldier that OUR military didn't buy for their troops.
COMMENT #34 [Permalink]
said on 8/27/2005 @ 5:41 am PT...
Can anyone tell me, of the whole Bush, Cheney, Rove, Wolfawitz, Rumsfeldt group.
IS THERE ONE PERSON IN THAT GROUP THAT HAS ANYONE IN THE MILITARY? I MEAN THE UP FRONT MILITARY NOT IN A DESK JOB WAAAAAAAAY AWAY FROM THE FRONT LINE.???
THE BUSH FAMILY ALONE HAS MANY ADULT CHILDREN . WHERE ARE THEY?
COMMENT #35 [Permalink]
said on 8/27/2005 @ 5:49 am PT...
Anyone who doubts the news regarding the impact Cindy Sheehan has, like the 1000 people that protested the war in Utah - like the 1000's going to Crawford to see for themselves what is happening.
Like Camp Casey's springing up all around America.
Or watching Bill Maher last night and hearing the CHEERING for Cindy.
WELL GET ON DOWN THERE FOR YOURSELF !!!
Oh an I am willing to bet that Bill Maher doesn't check backgrounds of those getting in to see his show. WE ALL KNOW FROM THE COLORADO INCIDENT THAT BUSH ALLOWS NO DISSENT INTO HIS SPEECHES.