READER COMMENTS ON
"Libby Pleads 'Not Guilty' as White House Debates Rove's Future"
(26 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2005 @ 10:34 am PT...
He also hired a new lawyer ... yada yada yada ...
This is standard posturing ... all this stuff is staged, planned behind closed doors, and done to target the public.
Don't put too much into the media circus ...
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2005 @ 10:51 am PT...
One reason the president is unpopular (there are many) is who he hires.
Libby, like the xFEMA director is a crass, murdering, sniveling, dip-shit (link here) about whom bu$hit could only say "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job" on the public MSM.
Libby is another brown noser ("brownie") and has no real concept of accountability.
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2005 @ 11:40 am PT...
Can someone explain to me how Rove can avoid indictment if Cooper is going around saying this:
"There is no question. I first learned about Valerie Plame working at the CIA from Karl Rove," Cooper said.
Libby has since claimed that he heard the Plame rumors from other reporters. Cooper disputed that version of events. "I don't remember it happening that way," he said. "I was taking notes at the time and I feel confident."
If a trial goes ahead, Cooper said he would name Rove as his source of the information.
"Before I spoke to Karl Rove I didn't know Mr. Wilson had a wife and that she had been involved in sending him to Africa."
And why aren't these confessions from Cooper being discussed anywhere?
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2005 @ 11:59 am PT...
Look at that former director of PNAC, Lewis Libby standing there in the light looking so smug and confident.
What a sick little bastard..... ARRGH!
I want to watch him squirm and Fitzgerald apply the vice.......and then lets throw a party when Rove gets indicted for conspiracy. It's all coming out.....
This bullshit AIPAC/PNAC crap can not stand. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE WAKING UP LIKE MAD!!!!!!!
And as good as this all is, lets not forget to close up Diebold corporation once and for all or we'll be drinking republican/DLC kool-aid for a while.....being forced to a third party.
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2005 @ 12:25 pm PT...
So far Fitzgerald has taken the position that it is almost impossible to out an agent like Plame under the statute in question.
It appears that he did not ask the grand jury to indict on those grounds. I think he is wrong.
The statute, which I posted in another thread a week or so ago, allows also for conspiracy counts.
It is my opinion that Fitzgerald was compromised.
He is acting as judge and jury instead of asking the grand jury to make the initial decision and then let the judge decide what the law allows to be prosecuted.
In this he is an activist just like the Whitewater prosecutor was ... except in reverse.
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2005 @ 12:40 pm PT...
The precedent being set is anyone can out a CIA agent and there are no consequences. Agents can die, national security can be compromised, nuclear weapons can be allowed to proliferate and it is not a prosecutable crime. No one is held accountable unless they try to cover it up by lying. How can that be???
Plame did was outed, it is obvious beyond any reasonalbe doubt who did it and it is certainly a crime (even if the law is flawed).
I think I agree with you - Fitzgerald has been compromised.
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2005 @ 1:07 pm PT...
Dredd - If the statue in question can't be used to hold the leaker(s) accountable then there are certainly others that apply.
Treason comes to mind. Sacrificing national security for personal/partisan gain. I can't think of anything more treasonable.
That's a capital offense, isn't it? Life in jail plus endless humiliation and total discrediting of their ideology is needed. We can't give up until it has bee achieved.
The scary thing is even if we get rid of them here there are certainly others like them in the elite classes of other countries that have been emboldened by Bush's successes. That is why we have to unmercifully punish, humiliate, discredit and indelibly stamp into history the immorality and futility of their deeds.
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2005 @ 1:28 pm PT...
Fitzgerald's not compromised at all, he can choose to prosecute under that statute, Cheney can choose to try and stop him.
No one has any authority over him or the rest of the Justice Department. He just simply chose not to at the moment, and there are sealed indictments also in the fold.
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2005 @ 1:51 pm PT...
The hubris and in your face america attitude of the white house tells me quite clearly the following:
Libby will fight and delay, say he is innocent, until the '06 election
Then in mid to late November, after the election, he will request and get a plea bargain and plead guilty
Bush will then pardon him
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2005 @ 1:53 pm PT...
The statute is good enough, is clear, and could be used.
Fitzgerald is the one who is afraid to use it. He is compromised.
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2005 @ 1:53 pm PT...
I think part of the problem is the "sealed" bit.. We want to know who's being pointed at and why.. then let the trials start.
All this "let's give them the benifit of the doubt" shit, or "it's too important to let people know about" shit is just that, shit.
We pay their salaries, we pay for the investigations into their crimes, I think we have a right to see what all the "statements" are/were.. Hell, it was all "under oath", right? Redact the bits about where Nukes are hidden, who is dealing with the illegal chem labs we have, spy names, etc.. but let's see who told Novak about Plame, and let's see who says "they knew it was classified" and "Rove told me 'we'll get that fucker', then 2 days later Novak published the article".. Stop the games, get the info out there, swing these bastards, and do it now.. before the elections for the new Congress..
Crimes were comitted, the prosecuter knows it, the testimony is there.. get it out.. clean house with convictions, not saying "Mr. Shitbag VP who keeps dirt-balls in his presence.. please stop and do what you promised".. it ain't gonna happen, they seem to be psychos on a mission.. SHUT THEM DOWN NOW.
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2005 @ 1:57 pm PT...
THIS FROM WAYNE MADSEN REPORT TODAY:
November 3, 2005 --- More on Karl Rove's under-assessed house in Florida. As reported by WMR on October 29, Karl Rove's home in Rosemary Beach in Walton County, Florida seems to be one of the few houses in America that has depreciated in value. While it was bought for $165,000 in 2002, it has been assessed three years later at only $155,000. Other similar homes in the area are being assessed at $350,000 and higher. Is Rove a tax scofflaw courtesy of the man sitting in the Governor's mansion in Tallahassee?
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2005 @ 2:58 pm PT...
I'm thinking that Fitzgerald is starting at the bottom and working his way up the food chain so that those at the bottom can make deals.
Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but I'm betting when it comes time to choose, loyalty will go by the wayside. Nothing like the prospect of years in a jail cell to loosen lips.
The neocons are on their way out - it takes time.
I keep thinking how long it took between the time Watergate was merely a "third rate burglary", and the final gasp of the Nixon administration.
Think Bush is talking to the portraits in the halls yet?
BTW, is it just me, or at recent press conferences do his eyes look like he's either got a hangover or a migraine?
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2005 @ 3:05 pm PT...
Kes.. I hope you are right, but I don't hold much of a hope.
The American People seem to be content to be asleep at the wheel.. They are drunk on what little "stuff" they have, and there's no sign that they are willing to "do the right thing", in -any- context. Bush represents all that is wrong with this country, and the fact that a full on 1/3 of the people think he's OK is very troubling. I'd guess that another 1/3 never liked him, which means we've only awoken 1/3 of the people.. Just because "poor people" don't like Republicans doesn't mean they are "awake" enough to help make a difference.
If Fitzy drops the ball, there isn't enough support to do anything about it.. -thats- what scares me still.. While "progress" is being made, we're far from knowing if it's a whitewash or not..
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2005 @ 3:10 pm PT...
This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. This guy rapes soldiers and only gets 5 years?
Justice in this country is totally fucked up.. as the above link shows.. A Chaplin rapes people and we call it "forced sodomy" and only give him 5 years? What if he raped 3 women? still only 5 years for a rapist? yet, if you get popped with 1/2 oz of pot, you could do 10 years, 20 if it's in a school zone? WTF is wrong with this picture?
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2005 @ 4:16 pm PT...
The problem with your scenario is that you give too much honesty, honor, and fairness to them.
That is because you, like other americans, tend to be honest, honorable, and fair.
I applaud you all.
However, this is a rare moment where psychotic right wing folk have hijacked the american government.
WE MUST FACE IT. We must realize that they have planned out their strategy with minute detail as we grasp for straws in the crumbs they let fall.
We in America realize they are lying, do not have our interests at heart, and are corrupt.
SO, take off the kid gloves. Think about how animals would do this ... how criminals would do it ... sharp dangerous criminals.
They will stall all this out. They intend only ONE THING ... to still win in '06 because they have become addicted to power. The are into domination and all else takes a back seat.
We must have the same aim and focus on the '06 elections. To give the american people the chance to take them down in '06.
The common thing, then, both the good and the bad folk are looking at now are elections. And we know our elections have been compromised. So even there we are also at a disadvantage.
Fitzgerald can DO NOTHING. HE IS POWERLESS!
The president can pardon EACH AND EVERY person Fitzgerald indicts and convicts!!!!!
And Fitzgerald CANNOT TOUCH THE PRESIDENT!!!
Only the congress can. And guess what? They are compromised.
SO LETS GET REAL bloggers ... I am not going to waste a friggin keyboard typing out mealy mouthed bullshit.
I have laid it on the line. EITHER CONGRESS impeaches or they will all walk. Rove will walk. Libby will walk.
And so ... we must keep pressure on congress. Let them know that they will pay for their travesty. Somehow we will overthrow them if they continue to harbor these criminals.
End of story in terms of who has what power.
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 11/3/2005 @ 4:42 pm PT...
Chris Matthews is all over the case now. I suspect he's ticked off that his own name (and Tim Russert's) have been used to try to disconnect Libby and Cheney.
On "Hardball" he asked two lawyers, "Who else was in the room (when Cheney and Libby discussed Valerie Plame)?" The answer? Nobody else. Will that fact come out in court? It has to.
Point being, high-profile media guys are now acting like Woodward and Bernstein, and I don't mean Joanne and Leonard. This is a sea change, folks. As recently as two months ago, Chris Matthews was throwing cold water on the Plamegate story. It all depends on whose ox is being gored, doesn't it?
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2005 @ 5:19 pm PT...
in #16 I intended to say IMPEACH if he pardons ...
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
said on 11/4/2005 @ 10:08 am PT...
Reading these posts my mind is going backwards and forwards. We are losing the battle for Truth, we are winning the battle for Truth. I am so confused. I see the candle starting to burn, then it is blown out by the wind. I pray we are winning..one step at a time.
I believe this plot has been years in the making and will take years to unmake....unless something so unbelievable/unimaginable happens. What would that be, I have no idea. We must keep, keeping on.
I for one, get caught up in the 'I give' thinking, then someone here writes something and I get the fighting spirit going again. I see things changing, if one is to believe the polls, but then the rug is pulled out again.
The whole world IMO is involved and the US is the one that everyone is concentrating on right now. I trust the citizens of other countries are onto this too and are trying to clean up their houses. The cabal is global. The Neocons, the US part of the network.
I don't know if what I am saying is confusing, but I am, so it probably is.......M4 (who wishes she was a lawyer or a criminal so she could think like one or the other...then wonders are they the same?)
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
said on 11/4/2005 @ 11:36 am PT...
As I pointed out in post #10, the statute is clear enough to bring charges under the Espionage Act. However, since Libby lied and obstructed, the prosecutor does not have all the facts he needs.
Howard Dean, presidential counsel to Nixon, thinks Cheney will be indicted (link here). For violation of the Espionage Act.
Here is a quote:
"Having read the indictment against Libby, I am inclined to believe more will be issued. In fact, I will be stunned if no one else is indicted.
Indeed, when one studies the indictment, and carefully reads the transcript of the press conference, it appears Libby's saga may be only Act Two in a three-act play. And in my view, the person who should be tossing and turning at night, in anticipation of the last act, is the Vice President of the United States, Richard B. Cheney ."
But as I have pointed out in post #16, the president will pardon anyone Fitzgerald indicts and convicts.
I do not say any of this to discourage nor confuse, but to keep us on track.
The indictments give political power to us, and take it from the admin. The pardons will give legal power to the admin but they will give us more political power.
That political power can force the congress to impeach. Nothing else can.
And with political power we can win elections and get the congress back to an overseer role instead of a puppy dog on a leash mode as it is now.
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
said on 11/4/2005 @ 1:26 pm PT...
Libby played a key role in an earlier case of slanting U.S. intelligence for political gain – four years before the Iraq War when he was legal adviser to a House investigation into how communist China got U.S. nuclear secrets........ Millions of Americans may have been influenced to vote against Gore and for Bush because they wanted to rid the U.S. government of people who had failed to protect national security secrets.
In 1999, Libby, a China expert, served on a special Republican-controlled House committee that laid the blame for the compromise of U.S. secrets almost exclusively on Democrats,
the principal exposure of U.S. nuclear secrets to China appears to have occurred when Beijing obtained U.S. blueprints for the W-88 miniaturized hydrogen bomb, a Chinese intelligence coup in the mid-1980s on the watch of Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush.
The intelligence loss came at a time when the Reagan-Bush administration was secretly collaborating with communist China on arms shipments to the Nicaraguan contra rebels
The House report – with Libby as a top adviser – obscured this central fact ----- by removing the dates in the over 800 page report....... by setting up a timeline that placed nearly all entries about compromised intelligence in the years of Jimmy Carter’s or Bill Clinton’s presidencies.
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
said on 11/4/2005 @ 10:47 pm PT...
Merifour #19 - great post --- sounds just like my thoughts! Especially the line about wishing I could think like a lawyer - or a criminal - or are they the same?? Well --- yup. Some of those high-powered lawyers ARE criminals ... like Abramoff or Libby, fer instance.
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
said on 11/4/2005 @ 10:57 pm PT...
Dredd and Begonia BuzzKill --- thanks to both of you for really informative posts, & especially for the link to dirtytrix, Begonia B.
It is obvious we must remain as clear-headed and steadfast as possible until things turn around. I'm not happy about geedub's dictatorship.
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 11/5/2005 @ 5:02 am PT...
Based on the indictment alone, if Libby is innocent of perjury, then Cheney has to be the liar. No other way to square the facts with all the bullshit.
I think they're both guilty of lying. But both can't be innocent, unless everyone else is lying.
COMMENT #25 [Permalink]
said on 11/5/2005 @ 8:08 am PT...
RE my post #20
The name "Howard Dean" is a typo ... I meant "John Dean".
COMMENT #26 [Permalink]
said on 11/6/2005 @ 7:11 pm PT...
It must be clear, at least subliminally to everyone, that Scooter Libby is the "Ultimate Fall Guy" for the Administration. That is, now that we only see him hobbling around on cruches, he is telling us something. Now he is really saying what really is happening (the fall guy), his hands were/are tied and he fell has/is on his face. Its time to brace outselves as well.