....He's dropped 16 points in his approval rating with men in that time, 18 points with people who have a high school education or less, 16 points among Southerners and 13 points among Republicans.
Political scientist Kenneth Warren of Saint Louis University said the Rove and Libby matter was undermining Bush's credibility and helping to drive down his numbers. Still, he said the economy and Iraq remain the foremost issues for most Americans.
"I don't think Bush has much chance of recovering from the slump. I can see the economy getting better, but I can't see Iraq getting better," Warren said. The president has lost support from some key groups of constituents over the past year.
Source AP

See Epilogue in Al Franken's book. It is important that the BCFOL remain in the 30s until November 2006.

During an interview that Cheney gave to The American Enterprise Magazine some time ago, he was asked: "What one thing would you most like to be able to look back on when you leave this office and say, 'We did that'?

DICK: Well, that George Bush will have been one of the most successful Presidents in our history. That would make me feel very good.

.... Oops!

BCFOL, had to go back to an old forum to look that up. Is this what it means "Bush Crime Family Of Liars"

:doze:

Another question, OT. One night I saw Torqued say "goodbye" on here. Did he/she leave for good?

Cheney needs to give the hell up and testify or we get out the pitch-forks. This bullshit will not stand for ANOTHER GOD DAMN DAY!

I'll stand and so will all stand with Fitzgerald to force this man to come clean about his loyalties.

And I will not stand down until Diebold is dissolved and ES&S is out of the vote counting business. NORE MORE STEALING, LIES, COVERUP.....OR BLANKET CRIME

It's over. It's BEEN fucking over and now I'm going to make sure it ends!

Doug E

Jeepers.. Looks like someone's little world is crashing down around them..

'bout time..

Wonder what the low has to be before the Repugs decide to Impeach his ass over all his lies and crimes..

I don't know if this is somewhere else on the blog, I haven't read every comment on every thread. I just wanted to be sure everyone gets a look at this article.

http://www.newyorker.com...es/051107ta_talk_collins

Wow! Onward Christian soldiers.

Traitorgate, Everybody!

Not "Treasongate" or "Plamegate."

Let's all call it "Traitorgate." Rhymes with "Watergate." Much more memorable. Like "Treasongate," it focuses on the crime, but not on the victim of the crime whose name should never have been divulged.

Traitorgate --- Watergate --- Traitorgate --- Watergate.

Let's use it.

OT, but don't these Texas "wackos" (Tom Delay aide phrase) get weirder all the time?

They have lost popularity, and with that power, however, there is some power they have not lost.

In case anyone is wondering why some have brought up presidential pardon, it is because it is the wild card. Check this out:

The presidential power to pardon is granted under Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution.

"The President ... shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment."

If they can stall for time beyond the '06 election, say mid November 2006, it does not matter who Fitzgerald indicts and convicts.

Bush can pardon. After the election. That gives them until '08 to screw up america.

I just thought we should be aware of it so we can demand a statement that they will not be pardoned if convicted.

It should be a campaign question: "Should Bush pardon Rove and Libby?"

Raw Story just put up a headline that Fox News paid $14,000 in "expenses" for Tom DeLay to travel to Washington to be interviewed by them.

Haven't seen the details of this, but several questions arise:

1) Since when does it cost $14,000 to travel to Washington from Texas?

2) Given that Fox Network is licensed by the F.C.C., doesn't the excess over the actual cost of transporting DeLay ($14,000 minus maybe $300) constitute a bribe of a government official who might have to vote on matters pertaining to its license?

3) If, as Fox says, Americans "don't care" about Republican scandals, why would they go to such lengths to help DeLay?

I love when liberals run against a person who isnt up for re-election. Go LIBS!

We're up against the entire cabal... not just puppet-chimp.

Muddy Lite #15 Who cares what lames love. We know they just luv cons ... especially neoCons and neoConvicts. Gosh is it only you who knows you can't run against someone that isn't running? Brilliant ... they need you in the whore ... er uh white house.

RLM #14 I posted that on another thread here earlier(link here), but I had not analyzed the amount.

Good question you raise. Who would pay $14, 000 for a trip to podunk texas? Smells fishy.

Right! The only people running are the neocons who are getting the butts paddled. It sure is fun to watch. Hee Haw!

This Fox News/DeLay thing is really interesting. DeLay (in the interest of full disclosure, of course) reported that Fox had paid for his round trip from Sugarland, Texas to Washington, D.C. in connection with their interview of him in Washigton.
In his report, DeLay valued the trip at a fraction under $14,000 for reporting purposes.

Something doesn't make sense here. Obviously, it doesn't cost anywhere close to 14 grand to make that trip. Did DeLay receive that amount as
"reimbursement" from Fox? If so, the excess over the cost of the trip would be a bribe, wouldn't it? DeLay is still a member of Congress and might have to vote on Fox Network's license someday.

But that's too transparent. DeLay wouldn't report a bribe by Fox, because everyone would go to jail. Did Fox Network pay the airline directly? If so, where did the $14,000 figure come from, and who gains by overstating the cost of a plane ticket?

Was Abramoff involved in this? Is it possible the $14,000 is dirty lobbying money, and DeLay is trying to hide it inside an expense report?

Just because the Republicans NEVER seem to leave the campaign trail, doesn't mean that we are "running against a person who isn't up for re-election."

We are fighting for America. This isn't some political game. What is happening now is aggressive change in America.

One side is trying to roll back all of the protections and securities that we won through the gilded age through the great depression. I'm talking about people like my father, who died poor after a lifetime of hard work. Who never took a penny of welfare, until his illness got so bad that he was unable to walk. Who at the age of 58, when he was looking for work, chose to sleep on a couch in storage room rather than leech off the system. Who served this nation out of the goodness of his heart. Who loved America, so much that on national holidays, he would weep as he sang the national anthem. I'm talking about people like my dad, who the "family values" crowd would push out into the cold, to die. Who would send his job overseas to save a nickel. Who would cut his meager social security benefits so that they could wallow in wealth, as if indulgence in material pleasures can make up for the fact that they are scarcely human in their soulless disregard for God's poor.

You can call it whatever you want. But this isn't politics. This is about saving souls. This is about protecting our great country. This is about survival. Losing is simply not an option for people who are struggling to survive.

OK its obvious the neocons have been exposed and are heading down, down, down (if the public wakes up just a bit more) and just imagine what will be uncovered when the dems take back at least one house of congress, but it will never happen if the vote is stolen again. The cons are just rubbing their hands together knowing the fix is in again...nobody is talking about voting systems and they can claim it will take too long to fix the exisiting system.

#20 AMEN!
I've pointed this out before but your introduction inspires me to say it again.
My Dad was a prosperous world war two veteran. He also wept when the National Anthem was sung. He was a religious man, generous and had true family values. He gave generously to programs that help the needy. He supported government programs that lift others from poverty and pain. He never cried over his tax dollars being used for education, healthcare and the needy, and he paid a lot of taxes. I don't know what these neocons are supposed to be, but they are like locus and they are eating up our great nation.

"and just imagine what will be uncovered when the dems take back at least one house of congress, but it will never happen if the vote is stolen again. The cons are just rubbing their hands together knowing the fix is in again..."

Damn Straight DaveK!!!

I keep coming back to the issue of the most recent and MOST BLATANT of Chimpy the Sock Monkey's fictional election "victories", and I simply cannot see any other way out of Chimpy's disasters than to have some unprecedented ouster based on the FACT that the last election was RIGGED! Impeachment alone will NOT do.

And Another Thing - !!

At the beginning of the Iran-Contra Scandal, the ONLY MSM figure I heard speak to its' CORE crime was Jimmy Breslin. Traitorgate has far more in common with Iran-Contra than Watergate in the sense that BOTH began with what I believe to be clearly treasonous acts on the part of Repugnantcan White House officials.

Bush Sr., Poindexter, Ollie North, et al conspired to secretly sell 200+ Million Dollars of weapons to IRAN - when it was well known that, less than 18 months early, IRAN directed and financed the Beiruit Bombing and killed 242 U.S. Marines as they slept in their bunks.

Sure, other serious crimes followed in Central America, but at its' CORE, these fuckers SOLD WEAPONS TO A NATION that paid for and directed the KILLING OF U.S. SERVICEMEN!! Fuck what they did with the MONEY down the road - selling arms to nations who actively murder our servicemen IS FUCKING TREASON.

And just as Iran-Contra was FUCKING TREASON, so are Chimpy's SICK EXPLOITATION of 9-11 and LIES to the public about Saddam's non-existent ties to Osama and 9-11, LIES about Saddam's non-existent WMD's and his Stalin-esque WAR on our own CIA - via the OUTING OF V. PLAME and the sick campaign to discredit anyone who dared to speak out against Chimpy's Lying Mushroom Cloud Scare Tactics!!

There is NO insult vile enough to slap these assholes with.

Fuck impeachment. It's not enough. We need our own Orange Revolution, like what we saw in Ukraine - a full ouster of the ENTIRE Bush Crime Family, imprisonment and a war crimes trial at The Hague.

It sure is refreshing to see the numbers go ever lower. Once we see it a low point, it only goes further down.

However, I am concerned that he may trough too early. A 33% approval rating would be wonderful if it were October 2006. (That is, just in time for the election.)

Remember people... all it takes is one good "terrorist" attack to get the public behind the evil ones again... this time for their dual wars against Syria and Iran.

Robert

I think it was Jack Abramoff again and dirty money was for sure involved! Maybe everyone should send their thoughts on the Fox News payments to the Justice Department
webmaster@usdoj.gov

Speaking of which....something rotten happened in Syria this week!!!

Syrian leader was assassinated, possibly by the P-2 Mossad!!!

Doug E.

Thanks for the poll numbers Brad. I find it simply amazing how Bush keeps going down hill no matter what the rightwing media wants to say. Someone once said in the Bush administration they create their own reality now they're in charge which appears to be what they're trying to do. And here O'Reilly said nobody cares about the CIA leak scandal. Maybe this is why all the democrats are now speaking up now. Kind of sad they're now all unified after all that's happened. But maybe there's hope.

that picture says a thousand words.

It's Pinnochio and Gepetto.

The MSM quotes polls because they know they are reliable and the pollsters existence depends on their reliablity, such as Zogby. They quoted every poll before and after the 2004 Zogby poll, which said Kerry won the election by 5 million votes. All polls before and after this one poll are credible and are reported on by the MSM. The MSM blacked out this one poll, but ran the bullshit story explaining how this one single poll was incorrect.

Guess what, MSM? That poll was correct! And your bias is showing by quoting every single poll before and after the 2004 presidential election polls which said Kerry won the election. And I'm no Kerry fan, I'm just a fan of our votes counting. The MSM is not a fan of all our votes counting.

You people need to put down the pipe. We control every branch of government now. You control nothing.

I just posted on another thread....the Cabel is Global. Probably should have posted it here. (#11).

#25 Just another 'terra attack' would be one that bushco would pull, I have no doubt. I would watch it, say to myself..as I did on 911, 'bush did it'.

I know that cheney is the one everyone is focusing on right now, but I, for one, do not believe bush was out of the loop. I think the 'dumber than a brick' image is just that. He escapes with no damage because he was just too ignorant to know.

I don't doubt for a minute he was 'chosen' by the Neo's because of his lack of knowledge, but once they got him in, he was part of everything that happened. Even if Poppy had to explain to him in very simple language, or rice had to tell him how smart he was on a daily basis, I believe he knew everything and applauded what his handlers were doing. A cartoon figure, yes, but not in on the game, don't believe that. He is a bully, arrogant, and a chest thumper. When rove goes down, the Truth will be seen. Either he will cave or rise in power, the ending to this movie is yet to be written.

Medium right - So now you've gotten down to gloating. Expected insecure adolecent bahavior. Its pretty OBVIOUS you control the branches thats the whole problem. Let the American people speak through a fair election and you may be surprised how your control will dwindle....your days are numbered pal!

The neocons and Bushits are scary enough, but what is even scarier is even if we get rid of them here, there are certainly others like them in the elite classes of other countries that have been emboldened by Bush's successes.

Imagine if neocon types takes hold in China! We need to stop their might-makes-right theory of security and replace it with policies that will entangle everyone's security in such a way that a threat to one is a threat to all.

That is why the future of the world depends on us bring the necons and Bushits to justice. We must unmercifully punish, humiliate, discredit and indelibly stamp into history the immorality and futility of their deeds.

Indictments and even impeachments fall way short.

This president and vice president have established military courts and secret prisons.

Chief Justice Roberts agreed, as an appellate judge, to reverse a district court judge who said Geneva Convention protections, which torture violates, can be vindicated in the Federal Courts of the United States.

In other words the president and vice president do not think someone being tortured in the secret or other military prisons has and recourse in united states courts.

The Hamdan v Rumsfeld decision is now before the Supreme Court where Chief Justice Roberts will not be allowed to partake.

I don't think the secret prisons and torture of a 33% president nor a 13% vice president should stand.

OT, I read a letter written to bush by a member of the govt. of Argentina, the other day, another site. In the letter Ms. Castro requested bush not attend a summit coming up soon because the people hated him so much. Just now on Faux they were showing rioters in the streets because bush was coming...buses on fire. News was shut down right away.....I hope I have this somewhat right..have been on the net. If true, he is getting quite a welcome. I need to go find out if he is over there.

I think the last person to say, "We control every branch of government, you control nothing," was Papa Doc Duvalier. Or maybe it was Imelda Marcos.

okay, did a quick search and the reports on net are downplaying reception...10,000 protesters. The tv showed buses on fire, riot police, etc., the video was quickly taken off to show talking heads. MSM doesn't want us to see how much 'our selected president' is Loved. M4

Wow. This from a LaRouche e-mail I received today. Has anyone else heard about Cheney and Berlusconi being tied to this fascist organization?

The Niger yellowcake hoax was coordinated, within the Bush Administration, by Vice President Cheney, personally. As the Fitzgerald indictment of Lewis Libby noted, in four separate locations, Vice President Cheney was the source to Lewis Libby of the identity of CIA officer Valerie Plame Wilson, the wife of former Ambassador Joseph Wilson IV. And both Cheney and Libby knew that she worked for the Counterproliferation Division of the CIA, which is part of the Directorate of Operations. Both Cheney and Libby thus knew that Valerie Plame Wilson was a CIA covert agent, at the time they blew her cover to syndicated columnist Robert Novak.>>

Oops, here's the important part from LaRouche:

Cheney conspired, in this campaign of lies, with a notorious international fascist organization, implicated in major acts of terrorism. Some of the lies perpetrated by Cheney and others, particularly the so-called Niger yellowcake hoax, were concocted by an international fascist organization, formerly headed by World War II Nazi figure Licio Gelli. That organization, the Propaganda Two (P-2) Lodge, produced fake "evidence," aimed at duping the U.S. Congress into voting for a fraudulent Iraq war. The current Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, a former member of the Fascist P-2 Lodge, was central to the Niger hoax, and another former P-2 Lodge member, the American self-professed universal fascist, Michael Ledeen, was another pivotal player in the war hoax. This same P-2 Lodge was behind the 1970-1982 wave of terrorism in Italy, collectively known as the "strategy of tension," which included the 1978 kidnapping/assassination of Italian Prime Minister Aldo Moro, and the 1980 Bologna train station bombing, which killed over 80 people.

I just got to laugh at, Commander Idiot in Chief, on the radio a few minutes ago , he said something to the effect that some people pay to much attention to the polls, sounds like hes getting vewy,vewy worried....silly wabbit.....oh btw whatever station it was reported his rating at a whopping 37% lets see where it plummets to over the next few months probably closer to.... say....ZERO !!!!

Aw just blow me. When wiberals lose election after election despite their attempts at fraud the somehow persist in thinking they're smarter.

"Political experts say that because President Bush has been having so much trouble with domestic issues, his advisors are telling him to focus more on international issues. As a result, today President Bush had breakfast at the International House of Pancakes." --Conan O'Brien

I just found a picture of him at the Summit with his "wife" rice, sitting beside him. I am sure she is putting everything said into bushspeak so he can understand it. They are sitting at the head of a long table. He probably thinks all the protest signs with his name on them were praising him.....cause 'candi' told him so. Yes, candi, not condi.

M4 (Post 37):

Interesting, isn't it?

Americans are wising up to the crooks DESPITE the MSM!!! Not because of them!

Who would have ever thought that?

They are completely irrelevent to the American people!!

and a dictionary is completely "irrelevent" to your ability to spell

I love how elitists think... They always think that their money, influence, and privilege is more important and more powerful than the millions of people beneath them.

So what if a small group of rich punks think they control everything. Before we declared our independence, we were ruled by a king who controlled every aspect of his government. And even claimed that he ruled by some sort of divine right.

He tried to stop us... but we decided we were sick and tired of living under his thumb. Good luck keeping your "power" or whatever you call it.

all your base are belong to karl rove and scooter-pie is gonna walk

http://www.flyted.com/me...ex.htm?navSource=meetTed

I'm sure you all have seen it before, but speaking of Cheney, Libby, Bush and fascism...there is a website called "New American Century" that will blow your mind when you read the mission statement. Don't have the link but a quick search will probably do it.

On the ratings, not that I'm the glass-half-empty kinda gal but...who the heck are those people who still approve? Yikes.

Oh P.S., OT, and admittedly not necessarily well thought out:

If Delay can set a precedent by making a judge recuse himself based on his political contributions, which are purported to cause impaired impartiality, should we ask for a list of contributions made by the U.S. Supreme Court Justices and nominees?

well re: the supremes - here we have a vague allegation with no substantion and this is counted as witty, incisive and worth saying. God loves you but not enough to give you a clue.

aw shucks

http://www.lasvegassun.c...05/nov/04/110407573.html

CasTROLL do you have a point, or are you and Oblio now living in the pointless forest ? Troll elsewhere.....

Here's the web address for the New American Century statement of principals (I forget how to make a link, sorry

http://www.newamericance...tatementofprinciples.htm

#50 if you could read, you'd know. But I love you anyway, now gimme a big KISS

Ok CasTroll.. I read your LV Judge post.. what's your point? I'm guessing you don't have one.. not that you'd ever admit it..

Your link to a judge in Los Vegas saying the Oregon Amendment "is valid" has nothing to do with this thread (or anything else I've seen discussed in the past few weeks)..

And you can't see that you're a total moron? Oh.. I guess that would require you to not be a moron.. sorry..

a body who can't spell "Las Vegas" calling someone else a moron? here's a big scooter-pie for you. xoxo

...castro
so you can spell ,its a bummer you lack the ability to reason ,or should that be "weason".

I'm still waiting for the trolls to point out that Bush's 33% plus Cheney's 19% add up to a whopping 52% ... which is clearly not only a majority but also ... a mandate! ... a landslide! ... political capital!

;-)

GWN asked about Torqued ... Yes, it does appear as though we have heard the last from him. IMO that's very sad, but he's got other things on his mind these days and I suppose the best we can do is to wish him well. But we may as well do it quietly because it's very unlikely that he's reading us.

:-(

Hey BigTobacco..I wish your blog about your Dad could be an OpEd in every newspaper in the US. It's awesome and so are you for writing it.

Merifour re: #41

Bush has to sit next to Condi, so he can ask her permission when he needs to go pee.

No, really troll boy.. your typos are safe to ignore, right? Make sure you point out spelling mistakes as your ONLY arguement.. makes you look special (like little yellow bus special, but special none the less)..

Care to explain why your "post" is about something that has NOTHING to do with this thread? or are you going to continue offering -nothing- of substance to the debate?

Savantster you better watch out troll boy might give us a D- for typos, not for interpretation skills, AKA getting the point of the thread.....

Zionist Likud mongrels take over the courts, call themselves "neocons" and destroy the world just like that mad man Ariel Sharon.

And only people like the troll in question are proud of them.

Yet finally everyone is seeing them for what they are!!!! WITHOUT the corporate media; who has become an irrelevant piece of trash!!!!

To the end of the election fraud and the permanent death of the Diebold

Doug E.

#58 Kes.....ah, I forgot, probably has to pee every time a topic comes up that he doesn't understand ie: not bushspeak. Wish the reporter who got the original pic of the 'pee' statement was standing over his shoulder again. (P.S. I can't call rice, condi, it's such cute name for a common criminal). I note that MSM even calls her that and I detest it. Can you imagine them calling bush, georgie...cheney, dicky? Just more bs for us to swallow IMO. She is not a cute little woman..she is a criminal, like the rest. I called her candi because bush just eats up her shit while his wife walks around in the land called denial. Wonder who is rooming together at the Summit? Am I bad, think I am beginning to sound like the cons with their nuances.

#42 MBS...I finally got offline and turned on the tv, guess what, they were all showing the 'uprising'. OMG, of course they all were real clear this is the same group that goes from Country to Country raising hell everytime one of the events happens. Gee, do they really hate bush? No, just the same group of troublemakers. Guess that is why I am so sour right now. I don't know why I listen to the lies spewing forth. I should just mute it and watch, turn off the 'CC" also. I just think I am gonna hear some truth, so I listen. I am dumb, so dumb. M4

I know, I know.. and I worry so dreadfully about my spelling.. it keeps me awake at night, terrified that someone might misunderstimate me, or think I'm disassembling.

Oh.. wait.. no, what keeps me up at night is thinking the planet is being poisned by corperate america, at the hands of a corrupt government that's stealing from the masses and giving to the rich, while saying how terrible it would be to steal from the filthy rich and support the entire country.. And knowing that psychos are in office actively working to undermind the entire Constitution and give rights only to the "privledged" on the backs, and in fact, lives, of the masses and poor. And are out there starting illegal wars on lies to try and "rule the world", which will ultimately result in the destruction of our country, if not the world..

CNN had Lawrence Eagleburger on last night. He called the rioters "hoodlums," but admitted there was a peaceful demonstration involving an estimated 10,000 people that wasn't covered.

It was funny. Eagleburger was there as a Bush administration supporter (he admitted as much) but he gave away the show by saying, "TV focuses on these hoodlums who break windows, but they don't cover peaceful demonstrations like the 10,000 people across town." Right, Mr. Secretary. So what's all this about the "liberal media?"

It's called "foot in mouth disease." Trying to make a point and proving the opposite. Yes, people who destroy property willfully are hoodlums. No, they don't represent the majority of people who detest Bush around the world. Correct, TV shouldn't pretend they represent Bush-haters.

CNN just can't help itself. Violence is just more fun that peaceful protest.

WP #56 LOL.

I would not be surprised if Cheney's office starts bragging about the fact they originated torture (link here).

#64 RLM..I was watching it and immediately said, wow, he just put his foot in his mouth. Then he realized what he had said and went, oh, will probably get in trouble for that one....lol M4

Hey Molly,

The sad thing is that everyone has a story like this. I'm up in Michigan, where everybody loves this country... and we have a strong tradition of fighting and working to make it great. I wish we could all write for the paper... think of what a great country it would be if everyone shared their ideas, instead of having to listen to chumps like Kristol or Hume "contextualize" the news for us every damn day.

We don't have to listen to sniveling little punks like Grover Norquist and his phony populism. Those fools are all just tools of big business.

Finally got around to the torture story, this AM. Been reading bits and pieces about the secret torture prisons. I guess I am a few days late, (better late than never, eh). When will it ever end, when will it ever end......M4 (feeling that deep feeling of hopelessness engulfing me once again)

#63 I think this keeps alot of us up at night-- "And knowing that psychos are in office actively working to undermind the entire Constitution..."

Low approval numbers & everything else will be meaningless if we are still voting within the hacked, manipulated, compromised mess that is our present voting system.
As hard as some are working to expose it, I still hear people say---as I heard Norm Ornstein & another guest on AirAmerica's Diane Rehm show say last week---they do not believe the elections were stolen. Period. And there were no follow-up questions as to why they have come to that conclusion.