READER COMMENTS ON
"'Daily Voting News' For December 17, 2005"
(24 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
said on 12/17/2005 @ 5:25 pm PT...
Blackwell is in full "cover his ass" mode......
Dig underneath Ken Blackwell and see how many deals he made with Diebold as well as why he knew about the CompuWare flawed software, and the GEMS defect.....and he did not say anything about it until after the November election.
That's almost probable cause for Blackwell being involved in the hacking & deliberate fraud that went on election day. He partners with Thomas Noe.....there is enough proof there to dig up all his documents, and then look at his behavior toward election officials...he ordered several counties to lock down ballots and change results (election workers convicted of tampering in Cuyahoga county) than he later DENIED he gave these orders!!!! Clearly this was NOT to protect anyone's vote.
What the fuck is he hiding, and who can prove it now.....especially now with Diebold.
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
said on 12/17/2005 @ 6:27 pm PT...
I wish I could prove it for you Doug
On the next Nov. vote day, I'm going to have my middle finger purpled when I go to vote to protest the electronic voting machines
Anybody with me?
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
said on 12/17/2005 @ 6:55 pm PT...
Thomas W. Noe was convicted before the Grand Jury in connection to election fraud!!!!!
Read the full judge's decision. His wife forced Diebold Election Systems into Lucas County, gave *information* over to Blackwell who no one has yet checked out, and compromised the entire 2004 election as Board of Elections supervisor.
She was involved with Diebold insider Robert Diekmann going in and servicing the machines. Where the hell is the people regarding THIS?!?!??
Further, Blackwell later blamed the Noes (both of them) for the fraud and irregularities in Lucas County. But he took NO responsibility for anything that happened in Lucas County, and it says this in the affidavit whe she resigned that day. (Bernadette says she was setup..)
Does anyone have a report on Robert Diekmann or CompuWare and has provided it to attornies?
Also I have a question for any BBV experts:
Bev, your posts on this thread are a perfect example of why none of the people you are slandering are interested in working with you.
I gave it a good go; now I'm out of here.
This was posted by Dr. David Dill. Why has David Dill been making these remarks? Who does David Dill work for? Did David Dill know about the backdoor defect in Diebold's machines including the optical scan? Did he know about the tampering or not, and did he inform anyone from the Justice Department?
I am interested in getting the full story on this, there was confirmed reports that the memory cards were found in Lucas County, Ohio and had been broken. The seals were either removed or the cards tainted, they impounded these cards but no one ever says what happened to this case. DID someone in Lucas County possibly tamper with all the machines, I have reason to believe this is true so for how long has the memory card defect or security hole actually been known? And by whom also?
If these machines can be patched through the card and have been patched, there should be a step by step criminal investigation of every move that happened and I believe that is the only way to prove and show Diebold's crimes. The problem is they have tried to cover up every bit of evidence and the discovery process has not allowed it, if there is reason to believe these suits will be appearing in the Ohio supreme court I WANT to see the discovery process go all the way down the line.
Who did what, and get convictions. I am telling you regardless of what happens to Ohio, that is the only way we're going to permanently get rid of this seemingly insecure neocon company (Diebold) and be able to close down the other.
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
said on 12/17/2005 @ 7:52 pm PT...
Blackwell Knew !!!
Did you read my post (see link above) about how Blackwell knew about the DieBold GEMS hack issue way back in Nov 2003, and he did NOTHING to fix it until AFTER the 2004 election was over ?
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
said on 12/17/2005 @ 10:37 pm PT...
More on the situation: Was a report ever done on Robert Diekmann?
"WHO" were the employees involved in this obvious breach of security and law, and for what did they do work for and whom. And also why were they allowed in the area where the secure memory cards are always supposed to be locked down or out of anyone's custody.
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
said on 12/18/2005 @ 1:10 am PT...
Does everyone not remember who owns Es&s voting systems? The same Chuck Hagel that won the senatorship from Nebraska as a GOP in a state that was solidly Dem for 26 years. So surprisingly he won, owns almost half the machines in the US and will be running for President 2008. WAKE UP AND STOP THE TAKEOVER.
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 12/18/2005 @ 3:01 am PT...
Blackwell switching from Diebold to E.S.&S. is sort of like Jesse James switching from a Colt pistol to a Remington. Don't quite think that's going to do it.
For Doug E.: Dr. David Dill is a Stanford University professor in computer science. He's a recognized expert in the field. Apparently he and several others have had personality differences with Bev Harris that haven't helped in exposing the stolen 2004 election.
On Nov. 7, 2004 Dr. Dill was on a panel at a hearing in D.C. sponsored by Common Cause on the election (by then the Ohio complaints were rife, but the mainstream media weren't going there). Talk about flipped votes occurring all day in Youngstown and elsewhere in Ohio was rampant (I had seen it myself in Florida as a poll watcher on Election Day).
Dr. Dill said the machines being used were hackable, but that no fraud had been proven. His position was peculiar; he seemed to be saying, "It's a danger...but it didn't happen this time." Finally it came time for Q & A, and I asked him, "Does your background in mathematics offer any explanation for why all the flipped votes seem to have gone in the same direction, from Kerry to Bush? If there were no fraud involved, shouldn't the law of averages insist that it happen both ways?"
His reply was, "All the flipped votes didn't go in the same direction." Somebody in the audience cried out, "Try 95%!" Dill didn't cite any examples of a vote being flipped from Bush to Kerry, although it might have happened in a handful of cases.
I came away from the session thinking, "This man is strange. He flies all the way from California to Washington to serve on a panel investigating an allegedly fraudulent election. He obviously knows his stuff. And he admits that nothing in the work he's been doing for several years on election machines precludes the possibility that they had been programmed to permit fraud...indeed, that it was a real possibility. But then he insists it didn't happen in this case." Bizarre.
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
said on 12/18/2005 @ 3:29 am PT...
Re: your questions about David Dill.
I too wonder what the hell is going on with him and with others in the academic community. It is clear that a number of so-called experts from the academic computing community had access to the Diebold files. Bev gave it to them personally. In some cases she sat with them face to face when the vulnerabilities were pointed out to them. YET THEY SAID NOTHING PRIOR TO THE 2004 ELECTION.
David Dill's response is disappointing and irresponsible. He says Bev is saying "slanderous" things about people he does not name--yet offers no factual evidence to support his position. (Bev, in contrast, has described specific incidents.)
But don't take my word for it. Have a look at the whole thread at BBV ("Devastating hack. . .") Seeing some of the responses posted at other websites (which Bev addresses in detail) shows how time after time people spew disinformation, put words in her mouth, etc.
Have a read of the whole thread. David Dill first shows up here:
But it's worth it to read what also came before it.
The academic/scientific community has a lot to answer for in relation to the voting/election issue. If they felt they had too many conflicts of interests to report honest findings then they should have let this be known when the Diebold code was first shared with them, and not flown around the country proclaiming themselves as experts when at the same time they were hiding what they knew (or in some cases at best, not revealing that they never bothered to look at the code at all which would also seem a little incredible given that they were later appearing as experts).
They are dragging the name of science and their respective institutions through the mud. Their silence has played a major part in shredding American democracy.
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
said on 12/18/2005 @ 5:47 am PT...
The reason all this is happening, in substantial part, is that we have had only two branches of government, the congress having been shut down by the neoCons who have corrupted the leading party.
Leading in terms of votes, not ideas. Note the abysmal record:
"Democrats on the committee said the panel issued 1,052 subpoenas to probe alleged misconduct by the Clinton administration and the Democratic Party between 1997 and 2002, at a cost of more than $35 million. By contrast, the committee under Davis has issued three subpoenas to the Bush administration, two to the Energy Department over nuclear waste disposal at Yucca Mountain, and one last week to the Defense Department over Katrina documents." (link here)
Did you get that, 1,052 to 3 is the score. The Republican led congress has failed and has become corrupt. It is that simple.
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
said on 12/18/2005 @ 7:50 am PT...
I think the big thing is that our politicians are doing NOTHING, in the face of tests in which these machines were hacked into. Why aren't our politicians doing something about this? Proof is being provided, that these machines are not secure! They are ignoring this important information and not acting upon it. This is the #1 issue in the United States. Our democracy is a sham!
The Republicans & rightwingers are more interested in Iraq than the U.S. The MSM is more interested in Iraq than the U.S. There's tons of stories if someone in Iraq takes a shit! And nothing in comparison, to our U.S. democracy being a sham!
We have a Republican-controlled government that is more interested in foreign countries like Iraq, than in our own United States. They constantly talk about how we're bringing democracy to Iraq, how we're fighting for Iraqi freedom, how the Iraqi election is going.
FUCK IRAQ!!! YOU ARE THE LEADERS OF THE UNITED STATES!!!
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
said on 12/18/2005 @ 8:13 am PT...
Doug E #3
You asked who David Dill is. He is a computer scientist and professor at Stanford University. He is the founder of VerifiedVoting. I worked for Dr. Dill at VerifiedVoting for about 6 months early on. He is a bit more conservative in his way of doing things than I am but he also has a University that watches what he does.
David, at times, has had his motives questioned by some in the movement. I can tell you from knowing David for well over three years that he is as concerned about voting technology as you or I or those who would disparage him.
As to the post on BBV. All I can do is ask that you go back and read the previous posts from Dr. Dill, who posted originally to defend his stance, and the responses to his posts. Read them with an open mind and you decide.
By the way, just to be fully open, prior to working with Dr. Dill at VerifiedVoting I was one of the forum admins at BBV.org for a few months. I have a lot of respect for both organizations and the people behind them.
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
said on 12/18/2005 @ 9:40 am PT...
"I have a lot of respect for both organizations and the people behind them."
I was disappointed when David Dill had so little to say beyond clarifying how little information/access he had. (Though he had little to say about what he gleaned from the audit logs, even though he made it clear they were interesting and revealing.)
Perhaps more to the point is your observation "he also has a University that watches what he does."
Stanford is a famous institution. It also gets major funding from the defense industry (as does Johns Hopkins University, which is where the ACCURATE group has its base). Academics are not necessarily as free and independent as we might assume or wish them to be.
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 12/18/2005 @ 11:43 am PT...
Stanford indeed is a famous institution. I know a bit about it, having taken my first college board exam there while a student at San Mateo High School. My mother later worked in their admissions office, and told me Stanford routinely accepted minority students with average grades in preference to white students with good grades (that was around 1970). So they have a history of liberal practices.
But as Catherine points out, they also have conflicts of interest to deal with. If Professor Dill were to allege fraud in the 2004 election (or even suggest it), their corporate supporters would be very unhappy (the mainstream media face the same problem concerning the election). Stanford also has famous law school graduates named William Rehnquist and Sandra Day O'Connor, and one can only imagine the firestorm if their votes to overturn the Florida Supreme Court in 2001 were held up to imputed scorn by a Stanford professor.
Maybe the best we can hope for is that Dr. Dill agrees that the machines are hackable.
New York Times update: After failing to mention the resignation of Wally O'Dell and the class-action suits against Diebold for four consecutive days this week, the Times highlighted them on their editorial page this morning! It also cited the Florida test that resulted in an easy hack.
The editorial was titled "The Business of Voting," and referred to Diebold as "...the controversial
electronic voting machine manufacturer." This, after not saying a word about the controversy all week in the news section, and after 13 months of referring to complaints about the 2004 election as the work of "conspiracy theorists."
It might be the first time ever that a major newspaper censored a story with national implications, then sermonized on the same story in a Sunday editorial. Readers who don't use the Internet will be forgiven for not understanding the context of its sermon.
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
said on 12/18/2005 @ 12:03 pm PT...
COMMENT #22 [link]
...Jacobs said on 12/17/2005 @ 8:57pm PT...
" Bob Urosevich, together with his brother Todd, founded ES&S. Bob then went to run Diebold, while Todd still is a Vice President at ES&S. Diebold and ES&S, together, count about 80 percent of the votes in the United States.
How can you be happy with ES&S when they same crooks run them as Diebold?"
And then this from above,
"Blackwell chose a new voting system for Summit County. Diebold TSx? No, he turned his back on Diebold and assigned them ES&S OpScans and AutoMARK for the disabled voters...."
Where do think you good ol Bob's stock options are?
Maybe just a ruse to get everybody looking at Diebold, when ES&S is just as guilty?
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
Can We Count?
said on 12/18/2005 @ 12:52 pm PT...
Regarding this deep conflict between so many of the academic computer experts and the average citizens (like BBV.org) who advocate for testing and analysis of the electronic vote-counting systems:
THIS IS THE CASE STUDY FOR, AND REASON WHY, NO HIGH-TECH MACHINERY SHOULD BE USED TO COUNT OUR DEMOCRACY'S VOTES!
Because according to many of these academics, and the mainstream media's conventional wisdom, only credentialed "EXPERTS" (or the voting system makers themselves) are "qualified" to comment or pass judgement on said systems, before Congress, or any other official body... And look where that has gotten us!
It's obvious that these federal-grant-beholden universities are often completely conflicted about public truth-telling on controversial subjects --- and remember that academic political warfare is some of the most vicious politics practiced in the land...
The inherent elitism and arrogance of so many of the holders of graduate degrees help make this a TEXTBOOK CASE for why we MUST return the casting AND counting of our votes into the hands of the PEOPLE. In other words, the method of casting AND OF COUNTING votes in our country, must be obvious, clear, understandable, able to be described AND EXECUTED by any minimally-educated adult citizen. And no "high-tech experts" would have any more expertise or advantage in the process than anybody else.
Then if Congress needs to "investigate" how we cast and hand-count our paper ballots, THEY would already KNOW how the system works from their OWN personal experience and understanding, and they WOULDN'T NEED computer science PhD's from Stanford or anywhere else to tell them what works and what doesn't!
Enough with the outsourcing of our democracy: this is one area of our "economy" where good old-fashioned manual labor, to perform the time-consuming hand-counting of our votes, must remain the gold standard. TV Networks (and 'trade-secret' propietary exit pollsters): your corruption of our democracy in the name of "scooping" your competitors on election night, is at an end. The PEOPLE must COUNT the votes, and when we have finished the counting in plain sight of our fellow citizens, our officeholders will know that they in fact have the "consent of the governed" whose votes will at long last finally "count" as intended.
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
said on 12/18/2005 @ 2:46 pm PT...
Re: Robert Diekmann --
People might be surprised to know that Black Box Voting receives a lot of information we never make public. I did not realize Diekmann was involved so deeply in Ohio stuff, thought he just showed up to sales pitches.
If someone can e-mail me privately with a synopsis of his alleged involvement in something serious, I would appreciate it.
Diekmann has situations in his background that may make him a target for blackmail. They are personal in nature and have no business appearing in public in the context of his work with Diebold unless it turns out that he is involved in more than just occasional sales pitches.
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
said on 12/18/2005 @ 3:26 pm PT...
Catherine & John: Thanks for explaining that.
I don't quite trust these academics like David Dill especially if they really sat on this information. Obviously, Dr. Dill and others knew Diebold (not to mention ES&S) was corrupt as all hell at least two years ago.
Obviously, they saw the backdoors and how easily the source code is hacked for the optical scanners. What I don't understand then, is how for over two years they did NOT say anything and did not inform the Justice Department.
Hell it doesn't even seem like they informed their own people! John you said he worked to form ACCURATE, but he didn't tell you about the alleged defects? Do they really claim to not know anything about them?
I can tell you a programmer from decompiling that code saw so many vulnerabilities in the memory features(cards) that it ought to require a full on product recall. Yet some of these professors seem to not understand what it means when something is made with backdoors in mind, not by accident.
Either that or turn a blind eye entirely. I hope this isn't like the case with our media, where the SAIC or defense contractors are paying people off to not even look into it!
Btw regarding Diekmann: I think everybody ought to download this document that was filed as a criminal memo in Ohio- Ohio legal brief
Credit goes to RAWSTORY & the Cleveland Plain Dealer for this story.
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
said on 12/18/2005 @ 4:00 pm PT...
Doug E. #17 -
Dr. Dill did not form ACCURATE; he was one of the founders, with Greg Dinger, Ellen Theisen and a few others, of VerifiedVoting.Org. ACCURATE was formed as a result of a grant and is headed by Avi Rubin of Johns Hopkins University.
I really suggest that those who question what Dr. Dill has done go to BBV and read his statements with an open mind and open eyes.
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
said on 12/18/2005 @ 4:46 pm PT...
I agree with this advice. I wish David Dill were more forthcoming. His comments only partially clarify what he did or didn't know. He makes it clear he only had access to the audit logs, and hints that they raised questions or concerns. But what were those questions or concerns? Did he pass them on to anyone (colleagues and/or government officials)? Did he suggest specific kinds of follow-up? If not, why not? If he did some or all of these things, why not say so?
Bev has raised the issue that can, broadly defined, be described as a disconcerting lack of communication by some or most of the scientists who were given information and, it is implied, were asked to share what they found. It seems that sharing what they found didn't happen, or happened belatedly or in an incomplete way.
Timing matters when there is an election coming up.
I wish David Dill would explain more about his own involvement. Otherwise people may jump to conclusions that reflect more harshly on him than he may deserve.
When there are no facts to hand people will inevitably try to imagine explanations. E.g., he has something to hide; he didn't have time to look at much and he's embarrassed to say so; he's protecting someone else; he was acting on orders from someone at his institution or elsewhere to keep his mouth shut. This kind of conjecture is unhelpful but inevitable in the absence of factual information.
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
said on 12/18/2005 @ 6:19 pm PT...
And to add to my post above, I'll add an excerpt from a post by Kathleen Wynn (BBV staff) which seems relevant:
"So, the way I see it, Bev shouldn't be accused of being difficult to work with by Dr. Dill, when none of the academics have ever tried to work with her in any meaningful way from the beginning. Dr. Rubin told her he couldn't work with her because they needed someone who could testify before Congress! What does that have to do with the cost of tea in China? Whether they realize it or not, if they have kept a distance because they are afraid of being viewed as "advocates" in the election movement, well, they are. They are advocates for fair and honest elections, just like we are. They, of course, had no problem taking the Diebold files and any new information discovered by her and BBV though. A similar situation occurs in academia often where the graduate students do the research and write the paper for their professor, who puts his name on it and thanks them for their "help". "
(see the full post at http://www.bbvforums.org...amp;post=15314#POST15314)
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
said on 12/18/2005 @ 8:03 pm PT...
How about that election in Bolivia? Is that not a hoot? Georgy boy must be having a cow.
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
said on 12/18/2005 @ 9:20 pm PT...
Can anyone please answer this question?
Did David know about the memory card defect or the security hole which made it possible for optical scan machines to be patched? Or did he not know?
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
said on 12/19/2005 @ 2:55 pm PT...
This is Jeb's win/win plan:
1. if he wins handily in the next election and his candidates and issues also, and the Florida voters and exit polls say no-way!, then he can say: Oh, I was afraid of that but there is no remedy under the law.
2. or he loses because his hired hackers over estimated the number of loyal republicans, then he can say: Oh, I was afraid of that but there's a remedy under the law and call in the Supremes to vote twice.
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
said on 12/19/2005 @ 7:49 pm PT...
That's just like Jeb alright..."Make money off it" whichever way it falls across the line....
No its time to get armed and take the truth to the masses.........Diebold needs to be finished off, and we need to replace Congress.