It will be very interesting to watch how this develops....

The impeachment bells should ring loud and clear and not get rolling until after Rove is indicted...

Karl Rove will try his damndest to make it all a "non issue" as he always does....once he's out, there won't be much of a barrier...

To begin the whistling for this may put the voting companies on the defensive and ensure a clear new majority congress, along with Jack Abramoff taking his "friends" from this congress with him to jail.

Doug E.

...I fear this too will just join ...a rigged election or three, Lies to Congress (DSM), Treason (Plame), Katrina (criminal malfeasance), Criminal Detention (Abu Ghraib) and so much more.

...As with everything BushCo touches it will be the outrage de jour for a week and then on to the next atrocity.

Well no matter what all they need to do is keep it buzzing in the background and keep the impeachment calls coming....even if the corporate "media" covers very little of it.

As long as its out there and spreads as continuous news in the backdrop there will be a clear message for impeachment that everyone can use for electing a new congress.

Focus on the goal of shutting out Diebold*ES&S and congress will be re-taken just like the governors have been this year. I feel that soon the call will be so loud and Diebold will be in so many court fights and henceforth, that impeachment will be a guarantee.

Whoever begins the impeachment will become "hero" and all their worker bees from both parties will be lavished with undeserved worship.

First thing's first....

Doug E

2006 is going to be very rough for Bush and Co. Hopefully it will be short lived for his Presidency also.

Jamie
http://intoxination.blogspot.com/

Wonderful news. Only one thing would make it a better day and that is an announcement from Fitzgerald that Karl Rove has been indicted. What a trifecta that would be, a report showing proof of King George lying his ass off about the intelligence, impeachment proceedings called for, and the indictment of Karl Rove all on the same day.

Want accountability? I mean REAL ACCOUNTABILITY? We know that Bush has verbally taken responsibility for the war's mismanagement, and the false intelligence that got us there.... but where's the REAL RESPONSE to this lack of RESPONSIBILITY?

We need people in congress that are willing to fight to really work for accountability in Washington. Tony Trupiano comes to mind. A former radio host turned congressional candidate. He's the real deal... a unapologetic, pasionate progressive with a real passion at bringing REAL RESPONSIBILITY back to our government! He's running for Congress in MY district; the 11th District of Michigan where he is up against a fear Republican that has bad mouthed those against the war. It just so happened that this Republican was a former Senator that just so happen to draw the lines of his current district as a Congressman.

Support Tony Trupiano, and support bringing Washington back to the ethical standards that us tax payers deserve!

http://tony4congress2006.com

OH PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

Outsoure to Nuremberg.

RyanWoz: I've been working nonstop to get Tony alot more attention.....

He's right in the line of the Congress we need, by forcing these other losers to be thrown out alongside Diebold and let the prosecutions rack up.

However I used to be in Paul Hacketts corner until something informed me that Ohio is lost, that state is permanently screwed for the time-being until the matter of Diebold is handled in court.

HB-3 just passed the house. There is NO WAY that anyone will win a thing there unless they're a neocon.

So Tony needs to get behind an effort to remove Diebold from his own area....so should any other candidates, repub or dem who will stand behind absolute impeachment...if they remove the voting "device" from their districts, we'll elect them all into office the old fashioned way and start the impeachment.

Doug E.

Did anyone watch SNL this weekend? Their political satire was dead-on and funny as shiite. Why impeach Bush and Cheney?
1. 9/11 - WTC#7 and Pentagon Bushit Inside coverup.
2. American fear/anger from 9/11 + lies about ties to the terrorist attack + lies about WMD= Bushit
3. Pin the tail on the Ass! Stolen Presidential Election 2000 AND 2004. Take the Swiftboat to the Bushit way we vote Diebold electronic style without a paper trail. Look at how well Iraq votes thankS to...Bushit.
4. LYING MURDERERS directly responsible for Iraqi civilian DEATHS and CASULTIES.
5. LYING MURDERERS directly responsible for the
DEATHS and CASULTIESof all US SERVICEMEN in the Iraq war.
6. Closed Door meeting with the Elite Oil Companies to decide how our wildlands will be raped.
7. Lies about how clean the air is when the ARCTIC is melting.
8. The lie about how the growth increase by the ISOLATED POPULATION OF bROWN bEARS at Yellowstone is being used DELIST THE GRIZZLY BEAR OFF THE ENDANGERED SPECIE LIST. A wild lands corridor can still be created to protect the bear from extinction and retardation in the lower 48 states.
9. Call your Congressman today!!! The fcking bastards tacked the previously defeated DRILLING IN THE ARCTIC onto the Defense bill last Thursday and already pushed it through the Hous of Republicans. The fckers do not represent the people of America. They represent CORPORATE ELITE proud to keep the war machine going and their profit margin high without any accountability to the American people and the effects of the destruction to the world environment.
10. Cannot wait until impeachment and jail time
of this despicable corrupt Fascist rightwing regime.
.

This report is supposed to be released tomorrow, guess it will be interesting to see what msm, rove, or the neocons will come up with to drown the story. I just don't know anymore, everything is buried somewhere. Seems to me bush is untouchable, has consolidated so much power. How do we ever get our Country back. So many in Congress are in on 'the game'. God, how have we allowed this to happen. These evildoers are relentless. No more 'in the shadows' just blatently screwing us everytime we turn around. The arrogance of the criminal in power is despicable. I really don't think that bush will go silently, he will pull off something, much more terrifying then 911, to put the fear of God back into his base. He is Evil incarnate. We must fight this fight on a higher level, light verses dark, that is all I can conclude.
M4

M4, the scary part is that lunatic has the key for the football

God Bless us , every one... and
MERRY FITZMAS !

http://web.takebacktheme...m/flash/merryfitzmas.swf

Hey just wonderin'...anyone else having endless "loading" on this page??? I don't see any animations or such...so why...who's tapping in??? Get out of my computer, now!!!

M4: I wouldn't concern yourself with those matters....the nuclear devices have been disabled. The Zion neocons won't be doing anything....and they'll probably sacrafice these vessels like Bush they have been inhabiting, for "Phase 2"....

As for what Phase 2 is, lets just forget it until Diebold is gone and the impeachment processes are starting....

"They" never got total power...that is the illusion. If they had, every country in the middle east would be done for. Their plans have fallen apart, and this is part of the whole game as the prosecutions pile up....

Doug

I smell a terrorist attack (wink wink) to get this out of the news...say, around the end of the week or the beginning of next week???

How about right on Christmas?

Who ever said Charm will get you no where ?

Charm can get you elected president of the USA.

Very off topic, but fun. I posted it on the "war on Christmas" thread, I knew it would not be seen there, so please forgive me, I slipped it in here. Also: Jibjab.com has a new video that is amusing.
Merry Christmas to all and to Mr. O'Reilly, Happy Holidays! :0)

December 15, 2005
Dingell's Holiday Jingle

The War on Christmas has taken a turn from the patently absurd to the outright farcical. In reponse to a Republican bill intended to defend Christmas against the forces of political correctness and evil, Congressman John D. Dingell (D-MI) recited the following poem on the floor of the U.S. House of Representatives:

Twas the week before Christmas and all through the House
No bills were passed ‘bout which Fox News could grouse;
Tax cuts for the wealthy were passed with great cheer,
So vacations in St. Barts soon would be near;

Katrina kids were nestled all snug in motel beds,
While visions of school and home danced in their heads;
In Iraq our soldiers needed supplies and a plan,
Plus nuclear weapons were being built in Iran;

Gas prices shot up, consumer confidence fell;
Americans feared we were on a fast track to…well…
Wait --- we need a distraction --- something divisive and wily;
A fabrication straight from the mouth of O’Reilly

We can pretend that Christmas is under attack
Hold a vote to save it --- then pat ourselves on the back;
Silent Night, First Noel, Away in the Manger
Wake up Congress, they’re in no danger!

This time of year we see Christmas every where we go,
From churches, to homes, to schools, and yes…even Costco;
What we have is an attempt to divide and destroy,
When this is the season to unite us with joy

At Christmas time we’re taught to unite,
We don’t need a made-up reason to fight
So on O’Reilly, on Hannity, on Coulter, and those right wing blogs;
You should just sit back, relax…have a few egg nogs!

‘Tis the holiday season: enjoy it a pinch
With all our real problems, do we honestly need another Grinch?

So to my friends and my colleagues I say with delight,
A merry Christmas to all,
and to Bill O’Reilly…Happy Holidays.

Regarding voting:

HOUSE LEADERSHIP SEEKS TO INVOKE "MARTIAL LAW," FORCING MEMBERS TO VOTE ON KEY BUDGET BILLS WITHOUT FULL KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT THEY ARE VOTING ON:

Move Represents Erosion of the Democratic Process

As predicted in this statement, the House Republican leadership did use the “martial law” gambit to rush the House to a vote on the spending cut reconciliation bill before Members (much less the press or the public) had a reasonable chance to examine the legislation and understand what it would do.

source:
http://www.cbpp.org/12-18-05bud.htm

Patriot Act all over again

Yes, I got this e-mail earlier today:

At 5:45 a.m. this morning, the U.S. House of Representatives voted on a 774-page budget bill that was likely unread by any of the representatives, as they had received the bill only hours earlier. By a margin of 212-206, a budget was passed that cuts $40 billion to programs such as Medicaid, student loans, foster care, and other programs that empower low-income people to get out of poverty. Funding for food stamps remains intact because of your hard work. This vote came after House leaders gave their members clear instructions: Don't read it. Don't ask questions. Just do what we say.
From: The call for renewal sojo.com

Up or down vote, Bring in the Lions, Thumbs DOWN!

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaa Oh. I must have fallen asleep.

um, so who's betting on a new bin laden video being released in the next few weeks?

Stenographer Washington Post is inflating the numbers for him, that's how its possible.

Not even AP-Ispos has those, surprising....

As for the New York Times question.....I think a real boycott ought to put them into filing Chapter 11, or getting off the streets. NOBODY reads that crap anymore......Maybe 7 million just need to simply shut down their offices by never buying another paper? and their online articles are free, which is the only way everyone learned about the "domestic spying" story of outrage that's gone on for 5 years.

Doug E.

It has been a long, long, long time since we had an OPEN THREAD.

...big dan said on 12/19/2005 @ 7:40pm PT...
"I smell a terrorist attack (wink wink) to get this out of the news...say, around the end of the week or the beginning of next week???"

...big dan said on 12/19/2005 @ 7:41pm PT...
"How about right on Christmas?"

Maybe that's what Bill O'Reilly meant by a "war on Christmas" (day).

Woke up and turned on the tube - picture of Long Island with "Breaking News" banner - oh shit big Dan was right - oh just a transit strike.

I can't wait to see the news tonight and how they address this report.

My first thought is that they will down play it, but then again they have started to stir it up a little lately. Should be interesting.

Radine #14

It may just be the traffic here. When I first visited a little over a year ago it seemed that there actualy were only 6 or 7 regulars as you may have seen alluded to here.

Since that time it has grown slowly at first, but in the last several months I have seen many new names here with several more every day. I have responded to a poster only to have 2 or 3 other posts get in while I typed a couple of sentences.

Brad has developed quite a following for his hard hitting and comprehensive coverage of the voting issues and his work at Camp Casey.

Shameful act? Is it a shameful act, Mr. President, for a free press? How about the “Shameful Act” of leaking the identity of a covert officer of the Central Intelligence Agency? Shameful act, indeed! This President is out of control and needs to be led out of the White House in manacles.

In America we can actually identify our mentally challenged citizens, they are the ones driving around with “W” displayed on their back bumpers or rear windows of their vehicles.

Bush has some audacity to accuse anyone else of a “shameful act”. Let us see what the Bush Administration has accomplished in the brief reign. They have allowed the attack on America by failure to “connect the dots”; they have driven our economy to the curb by squandering a budget surplus and creating an $8 trillion deficit. They have ruined our public education with the bogus “leave no children behind”. They have attacked our senior’s pension plans and undermined social security. They have turned a favorable opinion of America in the rest of the world to a create a country that now appears to be a warring menace to the rest of the world. They have destroyed the balance of power in the middle-east to such an extent that we will have to fear terrorism into perpetuity.

This administration has gone after our environment like a drunken real estate developer. This administration has been the most corrupt government in our nation’s history. Shameful indeed!

Now, this imbecile, this non reading, non thinking lesser child of a former president claims he has “wartime” powers under Article II of the United States Constitution which give him “unlimited” powers. Powers, that he claims and is supported by his equally mentally challenged attorney general, that allow him to suspend the Bill of Rights and circumvent Congress and the Courts. I have a suspicion that these people don’t care about Americans. They only care about themselves. They only want to have an “ownership” society where they are the owners!

Let’s see, I think that we have had the type of society that this brand of the GOP desires before, it was called the Middle Ages. So, after 200 years of a great Republic these moron’s with the “W’s” on their cars wish to turn over their lives to King Bush and his merry clan. This is “Shameful”; this is truly unAmerican.

Will there be any mention of PNAC and their member's current positions in the government? Will there be any reference to the fact that todays foreign policies are PNAC's policy? Expose the roots of this deception!
www.newamericancentury.org
http://www.crisispapers....itorials/PNAC-Primer.htm

For John Brakey: Your allusion to the Middle Ages is especially apt, because the neo-cons' justification for what can only be called a global reign of terror by the Bush administration is to combat a CALIPHATE, which Cheney has called "an Islamic
(jihad) extending from Indonesia to Spain."

This suggests the Middle Ages because anti-Muslim paranoia reigned back then. The remedy conceived almost a millennium ago by the Catholic Church was the Crusades. The pope was all-powerful, so death and destruction lasted for several centuries, until the Enlightenment. The notion of republican (small "r" needed) government was yet unknown.

Luckily, we're a nation of laws, not men. George W. Bush will learn at his impeachment trial that in the 21st century, crusades against "bad guys" may only be conducted within existing laws. Even luckier for the cause of freedom, a 1978 law spells out the precise circumstances under which the executive branch may spy on American citizens without first obtaining a warrant. It may only be done when the administration seeks a warrant WITHIN 72 HOURS AFTER THE SPYING.

Ashcroft or Gonzales had three days to obtain a warrant from the special court established by the law for that very purpose. Bush refused to allow it.
Case closed. Impeachment, here we come.

> Additionally, Congressman Jerold Nadler (D-NY) has today written a letter to Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez demanding that a Special Prosecutor be assigned to investigate the "secret directive that authorizes domestic eavesdropping on United States citizens, without a warrant." The congressman, who also sits on the U.S. House Judiciary Committee, added in his letter, that "This unprecedented intelligence gathering policy is clearly prohibited by law."

Clinton did the same thing in 1994.

Good luck nuts!

I just wanted to add that my e-mail address was given to an internet porn broker by FOCUS ON THE FAMILY when I asked them to remove me from their list because I didn't agree with the "focus" they were promoting. I was not rude or disrespectful. I just told them I disagreed and why. within an hour my e-mail was filled with porn.

> COMMENT #27 [link]
...Dredd said on 12/20/2005 @ 2:46am PT...
It has been a long, long, long time since we had an OPEN THREAD.

Good song by George Harrison!

#35

Jo, you cannot prove that!

I love they way you guys accuse without facts!

I think Kanye West Said it best when he said, " George Bush doesn't care about black people" but I think it's read better as George Bush doesn't care about people period. How long does it take to get Hitler Jr. out of office? I mean I'm not against mentally challenged people working but I never imagined they could reach president status, unless maybe the first election was rigged. So then to win another election they conspire http://www.amics21.com/911/flight175/second.html
to cause a scene so they can scare the people into voting for them one more time while in the mean time while people are busy being scared they implement a few rules to take over the government and BAM! you got yourself a country being run by Yokels. Don't get me wrong I like yokels but I don't like Bush.

Here are the facts:
I have two e-mail addresses and have never received any porn before. The one FFF had was very rarely used and was never used for internet browsing or blogging purposes. I got rid of that address and have not received any porn since. I would swear to the facts under oath. I KNOW they did it. They KNOW they did it. The big guy upstairs KNOWS they did it. You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time but the big guy is fooled 0% of the time. Thats their problem not mine.
I have never received porn as a result of going to Bradblog (Thanks Brad!)

Rep. Tom DeLay (R-Tex.):

I believe that this nation sits at a crossroads. One direction points to the higher road of the rule of law. Sometimes hard, sometimes unpleasant, this path relies on truth, justice and the rigorous application of the principle that no man is above the law.

Now, the other road is the path of least resistance. This is where we start making exceptions to our laws based on poll numbers and spin control. This is when we pitch the law completely overboard when the mood fits us, when we ignore the facts in order to cover up the truth.

Shall we follow the rule of law and do our constitutional duty no matter unpleasant, or shall we follow the path of least resistance, close our eyes to the potential lawbreaking, forgive and forget, move on and tear an unfixable hole in our legal system? No man is above the law, and no man is below the law. That's the principle that we all hold very dear in this country.

That from Delay regarding a blowjob not a snowjob...how to see thru the smoke screen...don't these guys know about the "internets" ?

The shit is hitting the fan big time - all kinds of goodies at Raw Story.

Call for Bush and Cheney Censure! and much more.

#39

You still have no proof.

Any time you email, someone can pick it off.

You have no proof that FFF gave your email to some porn site.

Why would FFF give your email to a porn site? If they did, it would be an individual only and that person would be fired in a heartbeat. Do you want me to email them with your complaint/accusation?

#40

What specific law are you talking about?

You can if you wish but I would advise you to use an e-mail address that you don't want anymore.

Is it just me, or now that we know for sure that NSA are doing sneak and peeks on American citizens, do you feel more inclined to make your bed and run the dishwaher in the morining? I just hate the idea of having visitors see a dirty house.

> I think Kanye West Said it best when he said, " George Bush doesn't care about black people"

Another lie! More whites died than blacks in New Orleans.

be careful out there ...

Explosives Heist One of the Biggest in Recent History

PAUL try this one as a starter...

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

#14 While I was posting my comment last nite (#11) I got a phone call from someone impersonating an 'officer'. I was called every foul name you can imagine. I don't know if this was a misdialed number or on purpose. A second call was made, which I did not answer. I also have strange things happening to my computer when I am online. I don't know what to think and not being computer literate perhaps I just have screwed it up somehow. These irritations will not stop me from doing my 'homework'. I have also been blocked by dailykos and huffpost, unable to post there anymore. I don't know why. (I have never talked about Israel on those sites)

I still believe bush answers to a 'higher power' and it isn't God or Cheney. I believe he is doing his job for his handlers, to the U.S. I also am confused by the poll numbers. MSM must be really working hard for der leader, misleading questions or just plain lying, since that is what bushco is about anyway.

I hope JC's latest endeavor gets some traction. I read his post and seems he knows he is toast but willing to do this for this Nation. I wish more in Congress would get in touch with their conscience and distance themselves from K Street. I think we need a 'miracle' to get our Country back. I will work real hard to stay focused on the positive.

I am not 'fear based' which is an asset in these days. I just find it unbelievable when scandal after scandal comes forth and there are actually sheeple that think God is telling bush what to do. I can only conclude that their minds are so controlled they would sacrifice their own, if bush said to. M4 (who
just thought...many are, for this fabricated war)

#48

Electronic spying law became law during the Carter years.

Do you want us to connect the dots and avoid another 911 or not?

This is perfectly legal and not an impeachable offense. We are not being spied on without a warrant. We are talking about terrorists here! Whether they are American citizens or not, they are terrorists and we need to find them out!

Your civil liberties are worthless if you are dead!

If you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear!

The key words here are UNREASONABLE and PROBABLE CAUSE.

If you are searching the internet to have sex with boys and/or a member of NAMBLA, then that is a reasonable and probable cause to electronically spy on you. To seize your PC and enter your home, sure, there will need to be a warrant and there will be one. My dentist was a member of NAMBLA and arrested in San Diego by the FBI - a nice little sting!

PAUL "We are talking about terrorists here! "
BULLSHIT
Docs Show F.B.I. Spying On Groups Advocating For Environment, Animal Cruelty, Poverty Relief...

only if your sheeple

#49

> I think we need a 'miracle' to get our Country back.

You mean by putting Demcrats back in control?

> I just find it unbelievable when scandal after scandal comes forth and there are actually sheeple that think God is telling bush what to do.

What about all of the scandals under Clinton? What about the 25 dead people associated with Clinton?
Vince Foster? The guy who died in prison?

WE ARE WATCHING YOU DER PEON CITIZEN!
TURN OFF YOUR PC - BE PARANOID!

#52 I totally agree with your last sentence. That is exactly what bushco wants us to do. Good thing Truthseekers aren't buying it. M4

#51

PETA is the #1 terrorist group in the country!

There are environmental terrorists too!

NT Times reported in 1982 on the legality of spying:

http://newsbusters.org/node/3298

#46 The actual post followed up with , "but I think it's read better as George Bush doesn't care about people period." Another thing, who cares whether they were black or white. 1000+ people died in New Orleans. It's not about the color of their skin, it's about the fact that George Bush turned his back on his own people and does not own up to the fact that the reason he did this was once again for his own profit. Do you actually think that affordable housing will be built in the areas where there was before they all got destroyed? No because developers are going to get first picks of those areas thanks to our favorite president and a few of his hand picked cronies and they will screw over poor Americans a little bit more. Maybe it would be more appropriate to say that George Bush doesn't care about poor people.

UMMM? Do ya think the Transit Strike, affecting 7 million NYers will affect the NY Times? Or, is this the diversion of the day! I just heard the Breaking News Bulletin around 15 minutes or so ago.

I pity my friends who live there!

Paul #50 said:

"If you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear!"

While that may be true, how do you define "wrong"?

You see the problem is that one's freedoms are erroded gradually, a little at a time. One after another. The emphasis being on "If you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear!" untill one day you find that all of your rights are taken away and you are living under a dictatorship. This all because you gave up one right at a time. Now you don't have the right to assemble, the right to question the government and even the right to correct or if neccessary overthrow a disfunctional government.

It is this type of creep towards dictatorship which our country's founders fought hard to prevent and is the basis of our constitution and bill of rights.

Don't give this country away by accepting every thing the government throws at you.

Also please give a source for your claim at #46.

I heard tonight that, with the recent Iraqi elections and Bush's recent rehash/cheerleading speeches, that a WaPo poll shows Bush's approval rating back up to 47%!?!? How is that possible????

#55 and #56

New Orleans was a local and state failure. Should have been a model for liberalism but we see now what a failure that is.

We have already lost freedoms due to mainly liberal laws. I could list them but I have since become bored!

Benjamin Franklin, who signed the Constitution, also said, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Ambrose Bierce defined "Liberty: One of Imagination's most precious possessions."

It has ever been thus: Daniel Webster wrote, "The contest for ages has been to rescue liberty from the grasp of executive power."

Paul (and Jo).. let's not bother with the "did they send it, or was it 'picked' off the net" bullshit.. It's not important. Anyone with any sense already keeps a safe distance from religious zealots lest the skys part and lightning strike you down (they scare me and I'm agnostic).

To this THREAD, Paul.. do you have any insights as to why all these perceived crimes are being let go? Other than your assertion that Clinton violated the spying law in'94 (a link to that would be nice.. and, that -still- not an excuse.. Clinton should have been charged if he violated the law.. pointing at a criminal and saying "my guy isn't bad, that guy did it!" isn't a defense, it's pathetic).

Funny how you (Paul) keep trying to distract off on the facts, the details.. This thread is about a VERY LONG list of charges against Shrubby, yet you can't deny most of these facts.. there's no "legal" ground to stand on.. yet you want to try and prop up your chimp? Why? Is it that important to you to have someone inpower pushing their hate on the world that you'll stand up and defend someone that's consistently breaking laws? and consistently being unethical and abusing his power? Why? If I can stand here and say "bring Clinton up on charges for any crimes he committed", why can't you say the same about Shrubby? Why do you condone a Republican Congress obstructing justice for your guy, but trying their damndest to hang a guy over a blowjob?

And you call us nuts.. WoW..

Speaking of nuts..

"To seize your PC and enter your home, sure, there will need to be a warrant and there will be one."

Um.. have you not read the Patriot Act? Those "terror suspects" (who need no 'probable cause' stipulated) don't have the protection of the Constitution.. you know, that "goddamn piece of paper" your illustrious leader loves.. so, there IS NO WARRENT.. they can spy (wire taps in your house, cameras in your house, get all your bank records, track your internet usage, etc etc) .. for NO REASON (despite your assertions that 'only terrorists are being watched'), and they CAN just come in your house and take what they want.. Why dont you get that? .. Oh, wait.. I know.. cause if you actually admitted that our rights as Americans was being stolen, you'd not have a leg to stand on.. so you keep living in denial and calling anyone that's not a psycho-wing-nut 'nuts'.. Bravo.. Pot, Kettle.. Kettle, Pot..

You prove, Paul, that the current administration and their supporters don't condone citizens having rights.. For some insane reason, you believe you are above being an "average citizen" and are some how protected from the injustices that follow from the kinds of criminal acts being committed by Shrubby and his ilk. You can't get your brain around the fact that you're supporting a criminal break laws.. and try to justify your ignorance by saying "I have nothing to hide, so nothing to fear".. Isn't it odd, then, that your Chimp-Boy won't let people see HIS documents? Hmm.. na, he's not hiding anything, and projecting guilt on to the masses..

Paul, shut the hell up buddy and go join your friend Michael Scanlon in jail.

Apparently all you're good at is stirring up shit, and are going to make a new home alongside your "whacked" friends who "take all the whackos" for a ride with their breed of false christianity!

Doug

Paul #50, electronic spying became law in the Carter years as the technology became available, but they were smart enough to ensure the law was mitigated and balanced by checks from the other branches of government in direct response to egregious abuses of power by such luminaries as J.Edgar Hoover and Richard Nixon.

"If you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear" is not adequate protection for the innocent against prosecutorial misconduct or secret enemies lists. It is the refuge of criminals and corrupt regimes. Have you learned nothing from history? How about "If your cause is just, you have nothing to lose by following the dictates of the law"?

The provisions in the FISA law allow for everything that Bush claims he needs to fight terrorism, including informing a judge after the fact. Yet Bush personally forbade compliance with this law.

Using Occam's Razor, the only logical reason to circumvent judicial review is to prevent discovery of this clearly illegal and unconstitutional action. There is nothing to prevent BushCo, or any enterprising individual within BushCo acting independently, from abusing this unchecked power to spy on political rivals or innocent Americans.

The robbery of the DNC at the Watergate Hotel to acquire inside information seems quaint in comparison.

BushCo has gradually established unlimited authority to hold American citizens indefinitely as "enemy combatants" for undisclosed threats to national security, without being required to show said evidence, gathered under secret, unchecked and unchallenged circumstances. This leaves little to no protection, and absolutely no recourse, for an innocent American unjustly held. Assuming, of course, that anyone would even know the American citizen was being held in the first place.

When they came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

(a poem attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892-1984) about the quiescence of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group.)

As we apparently need to learn over and over again, the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

p.s. to Paul: The failures of 9/11 had absolutely nothing to do with the provisions of the FISA law, and everything to do with BushCo's negligence of such evidenc as "Osama Bin Laden Determined To Strike In U.S." (Presidential Daily Briefing, Aug. 6, 2001.)

That's the other bit I forgot to mention..

With Sept. 11, 2001, there seems to have been PLENTY of evidence, it was ignored. Why is still a question. Since then, we've said "our intel was bad", yet "staying the course" is pertinant -despite- knowing we were wrong in the first place?

So, lemme get this straight.. in the pre-Sept.11, 2001 world, we HAD intel we ignored that warned us, and we weren't spying on our own people illegally.. AFTER Sept. 11, 2001, we ignored intel that said something we didn't want to hear, and illegally getting more intel wouldn't have changed that.. And, -since- then, -nothing- has come from all the illegal spying, but it's "needed" to keep us safe?

In case you missed it, -nothing- about any of that makes any sense, as bore out by FACTS.. Here's what makes sense.. Bush (well, more Cheney, Rummy, Wolfy, et. al) had an agenda and (at a MINIMUM) let the U.S. get attacked -despite- intel.. then twisted and burried intel that -stood in their way-.. If nothing else, those TWO acts are criminal and treasonous.. now they claim they need to illegally spy to protect us? from what? the terrorists we KNEW about? or the ones that were NOT IN IRAQ until we shoved our foot up their ass?

There really is no justifiable or rational reasoning behind this.. but then, we're talking about a drug-addict/alcoholic here who won't let anyone review his activities but wants to have his nose up everyone elses ass.. Can you say "Control Freak"? I thought you could..

If Rush tells Paul. Paul believes him.

Unfortunately, both Rush and Paul appear to be completely wrong about Clinton.

Surprised? Only if your a Rightwing Loon like Paul and friends, I'm guessing.

I wonder if someone "tapped" Ray Lemme's phone or read his emails before deciding he wanted to commit "suicide" ?

Paul,

Don't you find that it is becoming harder and harder to spin these lies and crimes? Why do you try?

Paul, do you honestly think that it was all state and local authorites that are at fault here. Everyone knows George was on vacation and Michael Brown was out to lunch when shit hit the fan.

Let's put 2 and 2 together... The President, The most powerful man in the country could not get anyone or organize anything to get supplies to New Orleans within the first 7 days and the leader of FEMA, Michael Brown, could not mobilize a force to get any help there whatsoever. This leads me to believe that the infrastructure was not there ahead of time to have the aid ready for such a disaster and that would be in FEMA's jurisdiction.

Now I'm not going out on a witch hunt here. These are FACTS, something I'm sure you have a problem with since you don't seem able to site them in your posts. There were no choppers because they were in Iraq because George sent them into an illegal war. The Levees fell because Dubya reduced funding to the Army Corp of Engineers. There was noone to get supplies to New Orleans because they left an inept ass in charge. I seem to recall actually seeing Ray Nagin on CNN or somewhere begging for some kind of help.

It's pretty sad that you continue to argue that it was state and local authorities. Sure there were problems at the state and local level but as everyone knows shit rolls downhill and if it rolls downhill it has to start somewhere... at the top!