READER COMMENTS ON
"VIDEO - Senator Feingold's Press Briefing on Bush Censure"
(44 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
said on 3/16/2006 @ 9:56 am PT...
Here is a comment I posted earlier today in regards to this matter at Rawstory.
March 16th, 2006 at 12:15:48 From: MrBlueSky
OOPS... time to backda***up
I too thought as you all did on this one.
I even called Sens. Murray and Cantwell's DC offices and demanded that they co-sponsor Sen. Feingold's resolution.
However, I am thinking we are overstretching ourselves with this.
An unexpected consequence is hitting: Repubs using this issue to stoke their base.
Before this resolution, Democrats were happy that, in November, they could retake the House and Senate because Bush's poll numbers and innumerable missteps and mistakes had been demoralizing the neocon base voters.
However, we've handed the neocons a victory with this censure resolution in that they are using the censure resolution to fire up their base.
My mistake was forgetting the golden rule in politics: When your opponent shoots himself/herself in the foot, NEVER get in his/her way. And that is exactly what Sen. Feingold is doing.
Make no mistake... I think Bush and Cheney should have been impeached right after 9/11. But, from a purely tactical standpoint, I think we may have gone too far.
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
said on 3/16/2006 @ 10:07 am PT...
...OR...you can think that NOW is the time to act, while Bush's rating is 33%. And it's the right thing to do, anyway.
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
said on 3/16/2006 @ 10:11 am PT...
and if by some miracle this or articles of impeachment get coverage/leverage, we may prevent another war!
And, Big Dan is right, it IS the right thing to do.
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
said on 3/16/2006 @ 10:13 am PT...
Dan, I agree it's the right thing to do (actually it's far too weak and about 5 years too late).
However, I worry that the 33% approval rating will reverse direction and start to increase if we take this kind of action.
While I am firmly in agreement with Sen. Feingold, I, unlike the neo-cons, am unwilling to start Civil War II (the Red vs. the Blue) over it.
I prefer to turn things around at the [Voter-Verified Paper] Ballot Box... less blood is shed that way and we can still be the United States of America.
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
said on 3/16/2006 @ 10:22 am PT...
War is preferable in Tehran than to have Gettysburg II.
(At least in Tehran, college kids and others took over the US Embassy and held US citizen employees there hostage for 444 days. For that, I will NEVER forgive the Iranians.)
Of course, now that I said that, I must note that I drop off my daughter every day at the house of 2 Iranian women every day for daycare. So far, that is the only exception.
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
said on 3/16/2006 @ 10:26 am PT...
I have to completely disagree with you. While I found it disgusting that "Limbaugh, Hanity, O'Liely, et. al." seem to be jumping on this, I don't think we're getting the "truth" from the media..
Think about it. His approval is at 33%, that means something. There are a LOT of people pissed that he is ILLEGALLY WIRETAPPING AMERICANS.. and the Censure CLEARLY states that we "need to keep survailance on suspected terrorists".. If "we" can keep the CLEAR message on point, that this is about Shrubby BREAKING THE LAW, not about "terrorism and national security", then WE WILL WIN..
I don't think there are enough psyhos out there to "legitimatly vote Repukes back in" in November. And I don't think we'll get enough machines out by then to make sure we're not gamed. And, there are REPUBLICAN Congresspersons looking at this in a positive light as well. The fact that some of his "own base" in Congress, the "rubber-stamp brigade", are thinking this might be appropriate tells me we need to slam this down their throats.
And, unlike you, I don't mind another Civil War in the U.S. We are being affronted by religious zealots on all sides.. from Islam and Christianity. Look around, the religious fringe is getting their sway and the masses need a wake up call. The MEDIA is not doing their job, Corporate America is RUN by these zealots (at least their sypathizers.. zealots give a lot of money to their rich friends). The masses don't comprehend what's happening. Either they show they are at least a little awake and support the Censure (by not "returning to the base" for the pugs), or they go back to "the base" and have more descisions like what's going on in Kansas now.. Schools have to get "permission slips" to teach SIMPLE SCIENCE to students. Sex Ed requires permission slips now, and they are thinking about 9 wks of "abstinence training"???? WTF?? That "message" takes 2 seconds to teach.. "don't have sex until you're married.. no STDs, no babies, and it will show your man you are a worthy woman".. *blink blink*
No.. we need to STOP this illegal activitiy.. we need to show the WORLD we're not willing to become second class citizens in the world. We need to show FUTURE presidents that "your party won't protect you if you break the law".
And, pushing this will show the American Public (those that care) WHICH DEMS are ENABLERS, and which Dems at least "try" to do the right thing. OUT WITH ENABLING ENCUMBANTS! Get some decent folks in there.. and do it before we're screwed for good.
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
said on 3/16/2006 @ 10:27 am PT...
I'm in agreement with Big Dan. It's time for people to demonstrate a moral stand. How many will die and suffer while "We the People" watch THEM shoot themselves in the foot. Moral outrage does not have a long shelf life.
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
said on 3/16/2006 @ 10:32 am PT...
"War is preferable in Tehran than to have Gettysburg II."
You would rather send our troops to wage war (and likely an illegal and unjust war, like Iraq), have innocent people in Iran die for our ignorance, than to "set things right again" in our own country?
Why should people 1/2 way around the world DIE because we can't get our shit straight at home? Don't you see that that's EXACTLY why those "Iranians took our people hostage" in the first place? Because we MEDDLE all the time? and all the while, we're fucked up here at home?
No.. I'd rather get our shit fixed here FIRST.. THEN, when we KNOW we can trust our Government again, decide if there's a "legitimate concern" from Iran (or whomever). This Administration and, to a degree, Country, is SCREWED UP.. we NEED to fix it before we go pissing on anyone elses shoes.
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
said on 3/16/2006 @ 10:41 am PT...
Feingold's move, in the eyes of the republicans, is a tactical mistake. Many dems agree.
Feingold said "I look forward to a full hearing, debate and vote in committee".
The "intelligence" committee is chaired by Roberts, who killed the NSA oversight hearings to look into this very matter, NSA spying contra to FISA, Feingold now wants to push again.
Roberts also killed the Phase II oversight into whether the president lied us into the Iraq invasion.
Both Roberts and Frist are allowing Feingold to go public with this, but they can kill it at any time.
If the republicans think it is good for them and bad for the democrats, why does Feingold think differently?
Perhaps he thinks that it will make it harder for the republicans to pull away from Bush. Or he may think it will give fewer reasons for republicans to articulate as reasons for pulling away from Bush.
Hey, the polls show that Bush's highest numbers concern national security. It is the one trick pony of the republicans right now. Why hit their stronghold?
They want to stay close to Bush on national security, but distance themselves on everything else.
I think a better tact is to censure Bush over Katrina and the UAE ports fiasco.
But do not impeach him ... cause The Dick would become president if we did.
Wait patiently for November, campaign carefully until then.
2007 and 2008 will be the years of impeachment or censure ... not 2006.
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
said on 3/16/2006 @ 10:44 am PT...
Now there's a democrat with a spine! If this were dick durbin, he'd probably be on the senate floor giving a weeping apology for daring to question presidential authority right now.
To anyone thinking this is going to turn Bush's poll numbers around... BULLSHIT! This isn't like Clinton getting impeached with a 60% approval over a blowjob. The only way this goes wrong is if the Dems buckle at the knees.
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
said on 3/16/2006 @ 10:51 am PT...
maybe 'shock & awe' part II is to draw attention away from the censure & impeachment motions....
and in a crazy way, bring up them poll numbers??
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
said on 3/16/2006 @ 10:55 am PT...
Savanster, Bvac and Dredd:
Thanks for your responses.
If your way of thinking is correct (And I pray to God that it is correct), then you are essentially predicting that the Republican opportunism will boomerang on itself.
The outward evidence will then be a FURTHER DROP in Bush's approvals.
It is my sincerest hope that you are all correct!
I guess only time will tell.
If it turns out to be the case, then I will end up not regretting my calls and e-mails to Sens. Murray and Cantwell from the other day.
Let's just wait and see what happens now.
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
said on 3/16/2006 @ 11:03 am PT...
With the current poll numbers on Iraq, I don't see how the massive bombing of a city will make people feel any better about the war. We shall see.
I think the censure will have a mostly indirect affect on Bush's numbers. It's a win-win situation for Democrats though: if Republicans rush to defend this increasingly unpopular president, it'll come back to bite them in the elections (Accountability vs. Rubber Stamp Republicans), and if they distance themselves from Bush, the media will jump all over it.
Either way, the Republicans cannot defend the merits of the censure. As Feingold pointed out, of the three possible explanations for the spying program, two were laughed out of congress and the third is questionable and there is no resolution in sight. So instead, all they can do is attack the messenger and play politics with national security. With some work on the Democrats' part this could further weaken the Republican congress on national security.
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
said on 3/16/2006 @ 11:10 am PT...
Good observation, BVAC.
I think what you are describing is the best possible outcome, as far as progressives are concerned.
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 3/16/2006 @ 11:10 am PT...
Predictably, the entire focus of the mainstream media has been on the political implications. The talking point went out immediately, "This is a great break for the Republicans, because it gives them a cause to rally around."
As Mother Teresa might never have said, "Who gives a shit?" The whole point of Feingold's motion is to transcend politics; it it were a political move, he'd have cleared it with the Democrat leadership beforehand. Obviously, he didn't, and I'm sure it wasn't an oversight on his part, rather deliberate.
But the media are congenitally incapable of discussing anything at face value. When public opinion turned against the war in Iraq, what did we hear from the TV pundits? "This issue is dividing the Democrats." When Bush's poll ratings first dipped under 40%, the talking point was, "The Democrats have no agenda, and can't take advantage of Bush's unpopularity." Always, they give us the political game...the style, never the substance.
Stay the course, Russ Feingold. You're a different breed of cat, praise God.
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
said on 3/16/2006 @ 11:20 am PT...
That's the other bit.. Feingold and EVERYONE (of us) needs to KEEP pointing out that FISA -allows- for wiretapping of "suspected terrorists".. the LAW allows for the protection of National Security.. and Feingold (and the rest of us) WANT THEM WIRETAPPED.. we WANT survailance on "bad guys"..
but we ALSO want it done WITHIN the LAW. There is NO GOOD REASON to "break the law" for this, it does NOT "increase our Security", nor does it "make us safer".. PERIOD!
Keep the message CLEAR.. Wiretapping is LEGAL if done BY THE LAW, which only requires asking a judge and showing SOME kind of "probable cause".. perhaps the calling of a known al Qaeda phone number? that is ALL a Judge would need to say "do it".. but that's too much trouble for Shrubby (so he claims). The TRUTH is, he's likely spying on INNOCENT people that he KNOWS are innocent and the courts would never allow. That is, he's illegally spying because he knows he has no right and no justification to spy on the people he's spying on. IF IT WAS LEGITIMATE, THE COURTS WOULD SUPPORT HIM (and have).
Don't let the Repuke noise machine distort the FACTS or POINT.
and make it CLEAR to your reps that YOU SUPPORT CENSURE.. that way they can get their heads out of their asses and stop believing the bullshit that "most Americans support the wiretapping".. that's such crap! where did they get that bullshit from?
Perhaps the Dem aides have been comprimised and are lying to our Reps..
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
said on 3/16/2006 @ 12:06 pm PT...
This is way too little, way too tepid, Feingold bobbing and weaving during the press conference as if he didn't want to make himself a steady target for the camera. The party can't unify itself for the good of the nation, let alone drag any statesmanship out of the majority to make the right things happen.
I started making myself unpopular some thirty years ago by pointing out that we are, in fact, no freer than the people of the Soviet Union, and it only gets worse. The "best" possible outcome for all this is that our failing economic model will fail so badly we can no longer invade countries and kill their people, and the war profiteers will retreat behind their fortress walls while us naked natives run around outside, eating the dirt too poisonous to grow anything.
Learn to speak Chinese if you want a job.
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
said on 3/16/2006 @ 12:48 pm PT...
Feingold is a patriot and one of the few that seems to care about the constitution. THAT'S the target of this wiretapping, the power to subvert the Constitution and the law of this (once) great nation. Sitting back and waiting till November is weakness. It will allow the republicants to re-group and the dems should do everything they can to keep them off balance. Let them just say "Oh that's ridiculous" when the people are speaking volumes with the poll numbers. No cogent arguments against it, just dismissal, as usual. Does anyone think the numbers are so low despite the wiretapping which I've heard a majority favor? I don't. I don't believe for a second that a majority favor ILLEGAL wiretapping. It's spin. I can't believe that anyone professing to be part of a country that has the rule of law as it's basis believes that blatant BREAKING of the law is a good thing. Feingold has it right. Put the issue front and center. Keep it in the news. Don't back down.
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
said on 3/16/2006 @ 1:06 pm PT...
David Kirkpatric of the NYT has an article entitled Call for Censure Is Rallying Cry to Bush's Base (link here).
"The threat of impeachment, Mr. Weyrich suggested, was one of the only factors that could inspire the Republican Party's demoralized base to go to the polls. With 'impeachment on the horizon,' he wrote, 'maybe, just maybe, conservatives would not stay at home after all.'
For weeks, Republicans have taken to conservative Web sites and talk radio shows to inveigh against the possibility, however remote, that Democrats could impeach Mr. Bush if they gained control of Congress. Mr. Feingold's censure proposal fell far short of a demand for impeachment. Most Democrats in the Senate distanced themselves from it, concerned that they would be tagged by Republicans as soft on terrorism. But the censure proposal provided Republicans an opening.
'This is such a gift,' the conservative commentator Rush Limbaugh told listeners on his syndicated radio program on Monday, saying the Democrats were fulfilling his predictions. 'They have to go back to this impeachment thing,' he said."
Why are bloggers here in accord with the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Bill Frist, and Pat Roberts?
The reasons do not seem to be the same as the accord on the UAE port scandal.
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 3/16/2006 @ 1:08 pm PT...
It's all in how the questions are asked. Here's the question that received a (slight) majority response in favor: "Would you favor wiretapping if it prevented terrorism?" In other words, if an attack were imminent, in such an emergency situation, would you favor even illegal wiretapping?
Most people would answer in the affirmative, not surprisingly, if the choice were between a repeat of 9/11 and a single violation of FISA. But that's not what's going on here. The court would immediately grant a waiver in that case (and Bush would have a three-day grace period to seek it). What's going on here is very different; random spying, willy-nilly, against anyone Bush deems a potential terrorist, at his sole and unchallenged discretion.
That group already includes Quakers, who by definition are pacifists. Chances are contributors to Bradblog are also on the list. It's illegal, plain and simple. We have to support Russ Feingold 100%.
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
said on 3/16/2006 @ 1:11 pm PT...
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
said on 3/16/2006 @ 1:18 pm PT...
Don't pay attention to the spinmeister Limbaugh. They want you to believe that its some rallying cry for the republicans so the dems DON'T do it. It's that simple. And no matter what they do, that hypocrite Limbo will try to spin it in favor of his favorite ass kissers. I say go for it full throttle! Give 'em hell Russ!
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
said on 3/16/2006 @ 1:31 pm PT...
One more thing. If the Supreme Court can hear that bimbo Anna Nicole Smith's case, (duh), they can hear this case that has NATIONAL implications. Tell them to ogle on their spare time (which they really shouldn't have any of).
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
said on 3/16/2006 @ 1:39 pm PT...
Think about it the opposite way. If Bush's poll numbers were high, we'd be saying it's suicide to propose censure. It can't be bad if his numbers are high AND low. They'd be laughing at Feingold, if Bush's approval numbers were high.
I want everything we talk about to be put in perspective of the electronic voting machines. We should always address this. The Dems would take the Senate by a landslide, censure or no censure, if it wasn't for electronic voting machines. What has been done since 2004 on that front? Arguing is a waste of time, if they keep stealing elections.
That is why I'm pissed at the Dems, because they are silent on the #1 problem.
COMMENT #25 [Permalink]
said on 3/16/2006 @ 1:43 pm PT...
Roger, he's only giving them heck, and much as I love to see the man actually comport himself as a real Senator, the weight of the whole dysfunctional legislature AND administration is on him now. To be the ONLY properly functioning public figure in an otherwise COMPLETELY corrupt system is heavy going. Bless him for trying at all, but if anyone thinks putting their eggs in that basket will fix things, they better rally troops to back the man... physically... not just in emails and calls, but an army of citizens going everywhere with him.
Go back and listen to him saying that impeachment in a time of war might be bad for the country. IT'S NOT AS IF WE *HAVE* TO BE AT WAR. We can call the whole thing off any time we want to. It's clearly a device to be at war at all. * can get away with outright felonies behind the facade of being "A War President".
HE'S NOT A WAR PRESIDENT! HE'S A WAR CRIMINAL! Feingold is as hypnotized by the supposed unpopularity of calling a spade a spade as the rest of the party. Goofy as it sounds to praise someone in America for having the guts to speak almost plainly, he is the only one showing signs of willingness to exhibit actual courage. NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
COMMENT #26 [Permalink]
said on 3/16/2006 @ 2:01 pm PT...
Paper ballots, and masses of ordinary citizens counting them, is the ONLY way to insure we actually elect our government, BUT we have to vote for incorruptible candidates to turn this around. Even though * has yet to win a presidential election, a LOT of people voted for him. Greedy and pusillanimous snakes wait in the wings for their turn. Go back and read the Declaration of Independence. We have to use it again, against all three branches of our government, or we are in an endless spiral to the complete annihilation of the republic as it was conceived to begin with.
COMMENT #27 [Permalink]
said on 3/16/2006 @ 2:27 pm PT...
Then I go back to my original idea of a 10 million man march. They have to listen then.
COMMENT #28 [Permalink]
Kevin Russell Cook
said on 3/16/2006 @ 2:45 pm PT...
Gotta do a double take when I hear some Dems say censure is "bad strategy". Bad strategy to defend a most basic constitutional issue (i.e., the seperation of powers)?? This exec userps judical power, and If he gets away clean with it, it will set a truly terrible precident. This is automated randomized survalence, all at the whim of the exec; "Big Brother" in the making.
Bad strategy! What nonsense!
COMMENT #29 [Permalink]
said on 3/16/2006 @ 7:21 pm PT...
COMMENT #30 [Permalink]
Grizzly Bear Dancer
said on 3/16/2006 @ 7:26 pm PT...
It's all about the loser mentality of winning with -0- accountability. If you get what you want and you don't get caught or you get caught and it's business as usual then this sends out the loser human messege that it's OK to be a lier and a cheat if you can get away with it. Don't even fcking try to follow it up with the line "well if it ain't hurting nobody." This corrupt government of lying murderers are doing their best to destroy this planet and fck you all. Stupid bastard Americans are immediately intimidated and fold when presented the "YOU ARE UNPATRIOTIC" card for not supporting our troops or their bushit policies that THEY caused. Yes, it's the blood of US troops that has to fight. Fortunately, i was taught it's the brain that tells the hand what to do not the other way around. The other idea being put forth into the heads of their followers unable to think for themselves is that if it doesn't affect your little world then who cares. Hate to crack your egg shell but it is and it does. REPEAT THIS LINE: I am American and connected to the living.
Since I was not planning a move to Mars and i wasn't expecting a corporate sellout robot or some weak politician in the republidem party to stand up to right the wrongs of the Bushit administration at this point, BRADBLOGGERS should take note that the good Senator is talking to people like us amongst others. He talked about a vote in 2 weeks and then he LATER backpeddled to say as long as 10 months. Remember kids it's not about right and wrong to them. It's all about their image and protecting the interests of the oil company elite. It's about damage control. The Truth and the legality of their actions don't matter and this thought transends downward from the top. What matters is can they get away with it AND what THEIR media bullhorns say their popularity contest percentage numbers are this month.
COMMENT #31 [Permalink]
said on 3/16/2006 @ 8:09 pm PT...
Read thru all the comments and didn't see anyone picking up the idea that if the 'reds'(wasn't there a lot of years where such were the 'enemy' of the United States?) see Feingold's actions as 'early warning' of impeachment, well, so be it. What that essentially says is that the Republican 'base' is NOT conservative, but FASCIST. And it is way past time that the 'spade be called a spade' instead of letting them hide in the clothes of 'conservatism', 'compassionate or not. Those who support a government administration that has broken so many laws, both national AND international are indicating they do NOT actually believe in the 'rule of law' and such needs to be shouted from the 'tops'.
COMMENT #32 [Permalink]
said on 3/17/2006 @ 3:06 am PT...
The poll numbers showed Feingold to be right in bringing the censure resolution. I consider censure to be the first step toward an impeachment. There is not that much fighting among the Democrats. The ones currently in office (at least until the next election)have trouble lifting their eyes from their greasy palms to see who is supporter/voter or payer/ruler. Not only that, but old habits of being mildly humble "yes, sir" men are hard to break, or untangled from amongst those old aspen roots. No need to be softly speaking, look at Harry Reid. Wimpola! No wonder those videos of a couple of ruling bodies were clubbing each other with chairs and fists.
The great support for Feingold among the people gives me the best feeling about politics in a long , long time. True, that is something Repubs do not enjoy. The trolls come in on comments and pretend to simply have an opposing view and attempt to start disagreement about the subject. Repubs are now desperate to get those numbers on their side again. It's not going to happen. All you have to do is read the blogs daily, and see what stench-of-the day they've added to or taken away from a bill. Their private matters have been exposed, not affairs! it's their nakedness that embraces their flaring nostrils. They, for the first time, the flaming embers of sulphur from their own future hell-hole they have dug for themselves.
Instant Shout-downs are going to greet anyone who comes between their Iraq Embassy Palace" and "World Empire". Bush is looking old, wrinkled and hung over more than ever! Do you wonder if the price of fuel has gone up for his almost constant travel in AF1?
They aren't interested in providing protection of our security anywhere, anytime! --- no security for our ports, borders, or any type. They just ain't interested in our country any mo! Don't you get it? Here's how you make decisions: Pro and Con. Now just what the whipplesnapper or nuefershuger wafflelooper point (restraint from cursing alphabet) do you possibly think could be put on the "Pro" side for this admin.
I shan't go quietly! FEINGOLD IT IS! HE IS CORRECT. HE HAS SUPPORTED OUR COUNTRY WHEN NO OTHER WOULD. HE ANSWERS MY E-MAIL. HE STANDS VERY TALL IN HONOR AND BRAVADO! (I also enjoyed hearing Gore tear a new one for the Repubs.) (You're not running for anything are you, Brad?) Any errors any one reads here are simply your imagination.
COMMENT #33 [Permalink]
said on 3/17/2006 @ 4:12 am PT...
Feingold did the right thing! I know more about him, his character and what he stands for in that one censure motion, than I do anyone I've been following to possibly consider for the presidential run in '08 over the last few months or years. Write to your Senators and insist they support the censure motion! If they don't hear from us, then they don't see the numbers of their constituents. We can safely conclude that the right-winger, Republican neo Senators misrepresent their constituency in their chamber voting, and don't reflect the majority concern of their states over their own deaf, blind and DUMB party-line, pocket-lining, anti-social, anti-Constitution, corporate interest ignorant games. The frustration their constituents must feel, and the embarrassment they must suffer when the misrepresentations go out over the airwaves!! I know it happens when Snowe and Collins do it here. Ugh. It makes the job of the "greasy wheel getting the grease" a little harder, and the voice gets raspy from yelling louder, but it can be done! Squeak and yell at your Senators and House representatives!! On any issue!! Then vote them the hell out of office in the elections if they don't listen. Your Senator(s) and Representative(s) have the same capacity of misrepresenting your state as the President [not elected by me and many others] does consistently and arrogantly and dangerously every single day when he opens his mouth. Thus, the perfect example of the frustration and embarrassment of which I speak. Yes, they're scary! It's scary what they are attempting to take away from us!! But let's shake it off! Find a way locally to make a difference nationally and globally. Don't let them continue taking anything away from us! We are much better than what they are representing to the world. They are hypocrites and liars, and care little, if at all, about anyone in the lower and middle classes. It's regretful that many Democrats either reside in or teeter on the edge of this position also. Listen to what they are saying, what they are stepping forward about, look at what they do and how they represent you! Look at their records on issues and pay attention to what risks they are willing to take regardless of their party affiliation, and as importantly on the integrity and value of their votes and representation. We can do it folks. It ain't over til it's over. And it ain't over. We're all still living and breathing, and it MATTERS!! If you have kids, like I do, you are setting a great example for future generations!! They may think I'm a little nuts right now, but they will have some tools when it's their turn. It will not be over, unless we let it be that way.... I have faith in Americans to get a clue, do what's right and needed, exercise their Constitutional rights and powers, and Feingold helps me keep that faith. LET'S NOT FORGET....regardless of what they would like us to believe.....THEY WORK FOR US!! Okay, I'm done for now. Peace!!
COMMENT #34 [Permalink]
said on 3/17/2006 @ 5:41 am PT...
Good thread folks. Good observations and comments. I read em all and learned a lot.
I see two legs in the issue. One is whether or not censure is correct, and the other concerns whether the timing is correct.
Good arguments for all of this.
I personally think censure is an entirely appropriate thing. I think impeachment would be better in terms of what is deserved.
But I don't like impeachment unless it goes deep enough (don't want Cheney or Hastert to become president if Bush is impeached).
COMMENT #35 [Permalink]
said on 3/17/2006 @ 5:52 am PT...
This is not a strategy. This is the correct thing to do. Feingold is doing the right thing. It is important that the crimes and lies are exposed and debated.
COMMENT #36 [Permalink]
said on 3/17/2006 @ 6:10 am PT...
I don't really think that this is a rallying call to the few morons who still support the corrupt Republican party...
They're probably just trying to give us reasons why they'll appear to win the next elections.
They've gotta start making up reasons for the apparent support they're going to receive in the form of uncountable votes... YOU ALL KNOW WHAT I MEAN!!
If they start spinning now and spin like crazy.. maybe somehow they can make it look plausible that they win elections this year (when really.. they shouldn't stand a hope in hell)
COMMENT #37 [Permalink]
JUDGE OF JUDGES
said on 3/17/2006 @ 7:56 am PT...
Senator Russ Feingold is the man with the Brass Balls.
COMMENT #38 [Permalink]
said on 3/17/2006 @ 8:45 am PT...
I like the way Feingold is independent. He seems to be one of the few politicians who puts country before party.
COMMENT #39 [Permalink]
said on 3/17/2006 @ 11:51 am PT...
Censure IS the right thing but whether it happens or not, EVERYONE in America should see that speech. It's clear, very clear that this president is out of line. (That's putting it very mildly.) His call for censure is in the news. Keep it there. We all know the re-pubic-hairs aren't going to have a vote on it after everyone has thought about it. Just keep saying it wherever and whenever posssible. Feingold IS right and the only time is the present.
COMMENT #40 [Permalink]
said on 3/17/2006 @ 4:32 pm PT...
Bravo Senator Feingold for having the guts to oppose Presidents Bush's illegal wire tap. The fact that the Democratic Party has not supported you, and has not opposed the illegal war in Iraq makes one wonder if they have any intention of wanting to form the next government. President Bush and his senior administration are all guilty of war crimes. Most of the world sees it that way. Wake up America.
Keep up the good work.
COMMENT #41 [Permalink]
said on 3/17/2006 @ 9:34 pm PT...
I agree that Bush should be censured but you know the republicans will never let it come to the floor. I have never ever believed Roberts since in the 60's when I worked across the hall from the gal he was sticking when he came home to Ks. I worked in the Union national Bank building right next to the gal and some pretty juicy stories to say the least. Even got to see some of the nightees that was bought for his pleasure. Than he turned around and voted to impeach Clinton what a bunch of hypocrites. This is the same way with Bush and his drug habits, young indicretions, at 40 years old. He is like a 10 year old blames everything on someone else. I even heard Wolf Blitzer say yesterday that Bush inherited this situation that he had to go to war because no one else had done any thing about terror around the world. Well if the republicans would have let Bill Clinton be in office they cried wag the dog every time he tried to go after Binladen or any thing else he tried to do about ethnec cleansing. This was thier agenda to get control of congress. So any thing that the dems. could possible do to take back the congress and our country. Bring it on.
COMMENT #42 [Permalink]
said on 3/18/2006 @ 2:40 am PT...
Ruby.... Not only did the republicans allowed it to come to the floor, they wanted to vote on it. It was the democrats that didn't want to vote. They were scared the American people would show that they were weak on national security.
COMMENT #43 [Permalink]
said on 3/18/2006 @ 8:48 pm PT...
Let me see. Republicans impeached a highly popular President. Now they control the White House and Congress. So if the Democrats grow a spine and push for Censur of a highly unpopular fake President then I guess maybe they too would end up with control of Congress and the White House. Oops thats not the DNC talking point is it. Feingold is one of the few politicians speaking the truth these days. I admire him and I hope he doesn't get sniped in a suspicious plane crash like that other troublesome Senator Wellstone. People! grow a spine and fight. Its time to unite behind Feingold, he deserves our support!
COMMENT #44 [Permalink]
said on 3/18/2006 @ 8:54 pm PT...
Noesis, anyone that believes that the Dems are "weak on national security" is sucking up tons of koolaid.. period.
Feingold is not suggesting ANYTHING should be done to diminish national security.. and POINTS OUT that FISA is a LAW that is MEANT TO MAKE IT EASIER TO PROTECT US. The fucked up bit is, the law is there and can be used to spy on "suspected terrorists", but Shrubby doesn't want to have to ask.. he wants to tap anyone he feels like it, weather they are "terror suspsects" or not.
He's violating the LAW, period. He broke the law with all his drunk driving, no consequences.. he broke the law when he was a coke head, no consequences.. he broke the law when he lied about the intel leading to the illegal invasion of Iraq, no consequences (yet).. and he's breaking the law with these wire taps. When the fuck are we going to say "when you break the law you are held accountable"? I mean, millions of people get busted for MINOR infractions.. because we are a "society of laws".. yet the pResident can break what ever law he likes? Sorry, if you think it's ok for "rich people" or "politicians" to "break the law", you are a total moron who should stop wasting my air..
The Republicans wanted an immidiate vote because they have the numbers to "kill it" outright. If it's given time to be discussed, and enough attention is paid to it, the dirty Pugs have a harder time "killing it", don't they.. Once the "logic" and "reason" is laid out, you'd have to be a total shit-bag to not support the Censure, period.