WKMG channel 6 in Orlando, fl just ran the story. They have no background as to why. I sent them this email.
Re: the ap story on the voting machine subpoenas why do you not run the story on the test conducted byy Mr. Sancho that shows exactly how easy it is to hack the vote and remain undetected. That is why the companies refuse to do business with Leon County, it is to try to get Sancho replaced. for details www.bradblog.com or the man that wrote the software www.clintcurtis.com . I am sending a copy of this to both Brad and Clint.

It's entirely possible that some people in Florida are less than honest. I think that's what the Attorney General is suggesting, but I can't be sure.

Brad,
Where do you live? C'mon, "Jebville"? Perhaps this was a joke on your part? Tallahassee, as the state capital, is in Leon County, as you have learned via this issue. Leon County is the most Democrat county in north Florida. Hardly Republican-friendly even though the current Governor is Republican. I live in north Florida, which is more Republican overall than south Florida, which is more Democrat. The Nov.1st, 2002, issue of "The Independent Florida Sun" had a cover story "North vs. South" on the issue of the political differences between north Florida and south Florida during the 2002 Florida Governor's race.

"Bill McBride rolls into Pensacola on a recent campaign stop and finds a red pickup truck plastered with JEB! campaign signs. ... Then during a visit to Zion Hope Primitive Baptist Church, an historic black church in Pensacola, the Democrat challenger for governor mumbles through a rambling, shallow, uninspiring speech. The yawner nosedives when a rousing, passionate introduction by local Democratic leader Juanita Scott makes more than 100 teachers, union members and blacks to jump to their feet. Still, far from being deflated, McBride keeps a stiff upper lip. He looks at WEAR-TV reporter David Deliman right in the eye and says to a TV camera: "I think the conventional wisdom is wrong on this one. I think I'll do really well out here."

Well, of course, he didn't. Jeb Bush trounced Bill McBride in the 2002 Governor's election.

I make this point because I wish for you to understand that there are big differences between north and south Florida, except for Leon county in the north and perhaps Charlotte county in the south.

Now, about the issue, Florida Attorney General Charlie Crist is a Republican. So since he is investigating the issue that is closest to your heart (so I take it), then you can't think that Republicans are all that bad, eh?

Have a nice day!

Crist wants the machines to stay hackable so he can be the next governor.

Mike J. - Don't get sidetracked on "Republican" and "Democrat" labels - this affects every American citizen who votes. Read around on the blog a bit, you'll notice we're not really thrilled with most of the Democratic response (or lack thereof) to this issue either.

As we've said a hundred times regarding the issue of hackable voting machines - it's not about right and left, it's about right and wrong.

But, in the middle of all of this, there are a few undeniable facts that stand out. See if you disagree with any of the following:

Crooked officials - bad.

Voting machines and software with security holes big enough to drive a truck through - bad.

People who demand that we continue to use those machines and software in elections in this country - bad.

People of ANY political affiliation who really and truly want to make sure every vote is counted - good.

Okay, now go here, and scroll down to the stories archived under "What's wrong with our elections?":

http://psstpsstpsst.blogspot.com/

It's just making mainstream, but trust me, we've known about it for a couple years now.

As far as Crist, we can HOPE he'll force a legitimate investigation. Only time will tell.

Anyone know anything about him? Is he a person of integrity and honor?

"Leon County is the most Democrat(ic) county in north Florida."
Hannity meme

Yawn...the attorney general is a huge fan of Tom Feeney so go figure!
Emma

This is what I suggested to Mr. Sancho in regard to company refusal to do business.

1. Invoke Reconstruction Act voter protection and allow parallel elections by paper ballot. Florida is a reconstruction state. Federal prosecutors then determine by affidavit the accuracy of these votes. The parallel election will win by default because voters where prevented from voting in the regular election. The losers are the companies.

2. Because this is an emergency Hire Election Ontario of Canada to count the paper ballots with money that is saved from not doing business (fraud) with other companies. By all standards this is a certifiable nonprofit, nonpartisan organisation with a stellar track record.

Onward and Upward for democracy!

Mike J. - Sigh...what is it about wingnuts and their irony-impairment issue?

The "JebVille" comment was a joke referring to the fact that he's pulling the strings of the powers-that-be (such as Sec. of State Sue Cobb). Sorry that went by you.

As to the knee-jerk comment about my thinking "Republicans are all bad", KestrelBrightEyes spoke to that well. Think (or atleast read) before ya speak Mike J. It's much easier to avoid looking like a fool when you know what you're talking about and who you're talking to.

I fear that this "investigation" will go the way of all GOP projects - into an executive broom closet somewhere.

does this invoke "discovery" ?

Notify the FLORIDA ATTORNEY GENERAL of the Clinton Curtis claim regarding Feeney's Vote Rigging Software contract with Yang Enterprises . 6 or 7 of ya should

What a good guy crist is. http://www.thepalmbeacht.../action-reports/109.html
Crist's office reportedly maintains the two Palm Beach County men are being sued under Florida's Deceptive and Unfair Trade Practices Act, which allows a penalty of $10,000 per violation, or $15,000 if the victim is a senior citizen or disabled adult.

In sharp contrast, Crist's office failed to even investigate attorney Jeffrey R. Hill's reports of a well-connected Jacksonville law firm's widescale misappropriation of clients' funds. Hill was employed by FARAH, FARAH & ABBOTT, P.A. a/k/a The Law Offices of Eddie Farah in 2004 when he discovered it was regularly overcharging its personal injury clients by substantial sums. He proclaims, "The firm was frequently 'padding' costs charged to clients by $300 or more per case and had been doing so for several years. Clients were required to sign settlement statements certifying they agreed with the falsified figures before any portion of their settlement proceeds would be paid to them

The questions the AG is asking are certainly hard-hitting.
Let's hope this goes somewhere.

How ironic that Diebold is now changing its tune.

I just realized that none of the links here give the questions that the AG is asking, plus the serious warning the AG has issued to all 3 companies.

This is posted at BBV here in an excellent story by Jim March:
http://www.bbvforums.org...amp;post=19282#POST19282

Catherine A #15

You can do links by clicking the "CLICK HERE" link just above the top of the message edit box and just below the "Website:" text.

It has the URL massager that will make your link to Jim's story look like this.

Mike J #3

THE ELEPHANT IN THE

EYES OF BLIND MEN

I have to concur with what Brad said in his post #10 and add a bit more.

If you hang around awhile, and want to learn, then first note this: elections are local

Ever notice that the federal government does not do the elections? Ever notice that it is county election officials that do them? Governed by state law with some sprinkling of federal law?

This means that elections, election machines, and how it is all handled, is a jewel with over 3000 (three thousand) facets on it.

That is because there are over 3000 counties in the United States. Even military votes are handled by these 3000 some odd counties.

And it is quite unaware to fail to take into account, at the local county level that a rebublican in one county can easily be more liberal than a democrat in another county in another state.

The knee jerk or just plain jerk reaction that condenses all things political into republican and democrat at the local election official level is a jerkism that is looking to fight, not looking to settle things so that a civilized society can do just one friggin fair and free election.

What the BLOG points out in this series of electronic voting machine episodes, is that the addition of mythological electronic voting machines from heaven is a problem ... because they are really from hell.

And while it may be true that they will help the economy with an increase in the sales of alcohol, pain killers, hate literature, sleep pills, awake pills, and pills that make you larger or smaller, it is NOT TRUE that today's electronic voting machines will solve the election problems in America.

They will, instead, spread bad elections, emotional disease, and political disease.

I am responsible for most of the anti-republican rhetoric on this blog, however, NEVER have I applied that concept to the local election level.

If I had my way NOT ONE local election official would be a republican or a democrat.

They would all be independents, greens, libertarians, and any other such party. Same with state legislators. I know that will not happen.

It is at the federal level (president, vice president, and congress) that I level my attacks against republicans.

I do so because there is, and has been for too long, a republican dictatorship and I do not like dictatorships.

For those who want to read the content of the subpoena duces tecum served upon the electronic voting machine companies, here is a link to the PDF containing the questions submitted to them.

Note that the nature of the action is anti-trust ...

Dredd,

"And while it may be true that they will help the economy with an increase in the sales of alcohol, pain killers, hate literature, sleep pills, awake pills, and pills that make you larger or smaller, it is NOT TRUE that today's electronic voting machines will solve the election problems in America.

They will, instead, spread bad elections, emotional disease, and political disease. "

Well said!!!

Thanks so much for pointing out the "Click Here" link assistant. Can't believe I missed it. I'll try it here:

Click here to see Kathy Dopp's excellent letter to the editor, to which you can respond and lend your public support to both Kathy Dopp and Bruce Funk.

And if you click here you'll see another Utah article where Bruce Funk supporters (and supporters of accurate, transparent elections and wise, ethical public spending) can register and comment.

Catherine A #19

Hey, your links are way cool!

You go girl!!!

Thanks for being ever vigilant and blogging as one of the 6 of 7 or is it the 6 or 7 ?

Yup, it looks like its "Watch what we're doing in Florida, while we Fuck over California" time

Dredd,

Thanks for the encouraging words.

Did you know I was recently banned at Kos? No reason given. No "outing" anyone, no rude language, threats, etc. I had made several pointed observations about the disruptive activities of a small group of posters. They'd post the usual misinformation about BBV and Bev Harris, put words into peoples' mouths, disrupt threads releasing significant new information about investigations, insult Brad Friedman for good measure, and generally attempt to create division within the election reform movement. (There are some good threads at BBV about cyberlibel campaigns in general, and about some of the specific experiences targeted at BBV.)

For example, I pointed out it was hypocritical to proudly post a photo of one Kos poster shaking hands with Ion Sancho, at the same time that he and his collegues kept disrupting breaking stories posted by Bev Harris, who had played a major role in making Sancho's heroic actions possible.

Some of the usual BBV-bashing trolls there didn't like someone shining a light on their activities. They came out with the usual insults. They also jumped to wrong conclusions left, right and center. For example, one of them came to the conclusion that I have staff-like "editing abilities" at BBV (which I don't) and that I am a "BBV insider" and didn't disclose this.

I'm not a BBV insider; I see their new reports at the same time as everyone else, I don't have staff-like knowledge about what they're investigating, and they have never suggested I post or not post anywhere or otherwise tried to control me. Just as Brad Friedman has never contacted me to suggest what I should or shouldn't post at BB or elsewhere.

If you're a "Trusted User" at Kos you can hide peoples' comments from view (which they did to many of my posts), and now they have evidently banned me completely. They assumed I had similar priveleges at BBV, which is not the case.

Now I cannot post comments or recommendations at Kos. Evidently some websites do not like free speech if it's revelations about the nasty underbelly of the voting machine issue, or if it's about genuine election reform.

I've noticed that even Brad seems to avoid mentioning BBV too directly in stories if he can avoid it, preferring to post a link which has another link in it which would get you there eventually. Speaking openly about BBV sometimes attract really disruptive trolling activity. But that kinda tells you something, doesn't it? It's getting too close for comfort.

I guess they'd like us all to shut up, but it's not gonna happen. I'm looking forward to hearing more when the technical reports about the Utah Diebold investigation come out.

I hope 6 or 7 (or 6 out of 7!) show their support for Bruce Funk. He sure deserves it.

Krestrel,

I like what you wrote and I agree with most of your post #6. Others have the knee-jerk reaction, including the biggest jerk Dredd. I have looked around this place for a few weeks and the venom I see here is directed at conservatives and Republicans. So far, I have not noticed a comment against Democrats. Point one out to me or venture an opinion, I'd be happy to read it. I don't post every time I come here, but I have read quite a bit.

Your posts are of the respectful, agree-to-disagree type.

One blog post on that other site makes allegations with no proof of the Ohio vote. I understand what you and others here think that Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell, the co-chair of the Bush-Cheney campaign in Ohio, should not have been in charge of the overseeing the election.

So let's go back to liberal's favorite election: Florida 2000.

Pop Quiz:
1) Who was the state Attorney General during that election?
2) Who was the chairman of the Al Gore campaign in Florida 2000?

All: Anybody know? Anybody guess?

The answer for both questions is:
Bob Butterworth.

This is important because as AG, he would be in charge of investigating and prosecuting any election fraud. Many of you here still rail about the "stolen election", yet your guy's campaign manager, in his role of state AG, didn't prosecute anybody for voter fraud that would have changed the election. Why? Go ahead with more conspiracy theories, please.

Perhaps this current Florida Attorney General is going to do the right thing here. Why don't you give him a chance to prove you right or prove you wrong? Talk about more knee-jerk reactions, some of you should look in the mirror on that one.

He may very well be better than the previous AG, who put himself into the same compromising position as that which you complain about in Ohio.

I stopped at the Pro Football Hall of Fame in Canton, OH, while driving through the state. Since 2004, I've had another reason to like Ohio.

Have a nice day!

As I sit here in between the Capitol of Florida building and Jeb's mansion, I catch myself pondering the outcome of yet another Republican whitewash. Will Crist turn it into one of those Arlen Spector moments, where he feigns indignation and concern while secretly quashing any real investigation OR will it all go down behind closed doors in Jeb's mansion? I just finished reading Miller's book "Fooled Again" and I can assure you Republicans are plotting yet another disenfranchisement of voters, by hook or crook. Those stalwart defenders of morals and democracy, that have done the exact opposite of what they claim to stand for in every arena,will stop at nothing to cheat their way to victory. Luckily, that sh*t don't float here in Leon County. Maybe it's because all these state workers with their low pay know all too well the arrogance and hubris of the greed-stricken whores they work for and would just as soon elect a yellow dog as vote for a Repuglican. But for whatever reason, I damn sure glad Leon county is mostly Democratic and I'm doubly glad we have an elections supervisor that is willing to stand for truth, justice and the American way (and I don't mean that sarcastically). I'm also thankful that our local newspaper, the Tallahassee Democrat has taken some interest in reporting this fiasco in progress.
I can only hope I get chosen for the jury should this thing go to trial

Brad,

That was a interesting response. You were so intent on thinking up your sarcasm that you missed my question. So I'll rephrase my question more precisely for you to understand: What part of what state do you live? Sorry that went by you. Do don't have to answer, of course.

I understood your irony but I wanted to verify instead of assume. I thought that you people don't like assumptions made of you?

What is it about you liberal wackos that you want to believe every conspiracy theory that comes along against Republicans and/or conservatives? Get a grip. Well, maybe not. You have Howard "Aarrgghhh" Dean, after all.

I hear stories about liberals and I think, "That can't be true", then later I find out many are true.

And Brad, the only fools here are those who actually donate money to you for this website. Hey, this is your website and you can do what you want. But you make a living from this site? Well, you are not a fool if you are making money from the others here.

Perhaps I'm wasting my time with some of you. For your efforts here, most of your visitors are not reasonable. I never expressed hatred toward Pres.Clinton. But the hatred I see from your visitors towards Pres.Bush says volumes.

Your hatred, and that of most of your visitors, drives you too far from reason.

Have a nice day!

Hey Mike J.,

There are many posters here who believe profoundly that election integrity is a non-partisan issue.

There are also plenty of folks here who see worrying similarities in both major parties. These include control by the corporate or moneyed elite, and lack of action on real election reform on both sides of the aisle, such as the example that you gave.

If you read Bev Harris's book Black Box Voting free online at the website here you'll get a better feel for just how non-partisan election fraud has been, and probably still is.

Voting should never be taken on trust. We should always assume that there will be attempts to compromise elections. The rot starts at the local level and it can be useful to start taking action at the local level, regardless of what party happens to be in control.

Do you need any ideas on what to do to make a difference, in addition to posting here?

Dredd,
HI! You're next!

I must congratulate the artist of that picture. It's a nice rendering of liberal thoughts towards Republicans. Tell your five-year-old child that his/her efforts in drawing that picture means that a future in political cartooning is very possible.

I posted above that I agree with Krestel's thoughts. Yes, elections are local, but local officials in elections are Republicans, Democrats, and Independents, just like the national scene. If you really believe that elections are local, then why do liberals think of the Florida 2000 election as stolen? How can 68 FL counties, independently operating, steal the election?

On the local scene, Palm Beach County in Florida (home of the Re-Vote protests) just had another botched election! They told one candidate she had won, then told her the next day she had actually lost!

Here is a video link for you and your friends here.

You are pointing out the obvious on local flavor politics. My wife is from NYC (and no she's not liberal). She has told me that a Republican in NYC is more liberal than a Democrat in Georgia. A Republican in NY, MA, and CA is required to be somewhat liberal just in order to survive.

Same with a Democrat in the South and Midwest. They have to be somewhat conservative on a few issues if they want to get any votes at all. In the last 20 years, about 22 US Senate seats in the South that used to be Democrat are now Republican. Imagine that!

Electronic voting machines are supposed to be the answer to the allegations of Democrats after Florida 2000. Your friends who can't vote on a butterfly ballot designed by a Democrat were demanding a better system. So now you don't like the new system either? Then why don't you invest a million dollars of your money and make up your own? If you build a better mousetrap, the local election officials will beat a path to your door.

Maybe some of the new systems have a problem. Otherwise AG Crist would not be getting into it. We'll see, but the system that works will be similar, count on it.

And no, I don't come here to fight. I come here to help your lack of understanding and reason. I come here, in the thick of liberal haze, to put some right in wrong thinking. At least it gives you a chance to hear from the other side, instead of just believing your side's conspiracy theories and patting yourselves on the back.

"If I had my way NOT ONE local election official would be a republican or a democrat."

I'll agree to that! Republicans of all flavors agree to that, both local and national. Yet you attack the national ones. Well ..... go back to 1993-1995 when you had a Democrat president and Congress. What was accomplished in that period? Just like not all Republicans think exactly alike, not all Democrats think exactly alike as well.

"Dictatorship" is a strong word. Defined as:

a form of government in which the ruler is an absolute dictator not restricted by a constitution or laws or opposition etc.

Do you really believe that exists today in the United States of America?

Hmm. Then there was this:

"Those boys can't bomb an outhouse without my say so." --- President Lyndon Johnson, in office from 1963-1969.

Pres.Johnson had a Democrat majority in the House and Senate for all of his time as President.

How do YOU define dictatorship? It may or may not be the sentiment expressed in Pres.Johnson's statement, but I read complaints about Republican power. Democrat power existed too.

The political pendulum swings back and forth, back and forth. You guys may win next time. Then we'll see Democrat power keep the popularism, but screw up the Bill of Rights.

Again, give Florida AG Christ a chance, maybe he'll do what you want.

Have a nice day!

Mike J.,

The whole political system needs an overhaul. It's not a Republican/Democrat issue. The answer to criticism of a Republican official or administration is not to point to bad Democratic official or administration. What we're seeing nowadays is perhaps an exaggeration of all the faults that plague our entire political and election system. That means things such as:

* campaign finance issues
*inequal access to 3rd party candidates or independents to both being on the ballot and to media
*lack of media coverage of issues, and no "truth in advertising" when it comes to campaign ads
* electronic voting machines
* lousy election office procedures (e.g. poor security and lack of chain of custody of ballots where we have paper ballots)
* voter registration procedures
* electoral college
* inadequate representation (too many voters per representative)
* gerrymandering of all kinds
* ITAs controlled by vendors
* 2-party system
* majority rules voting which is inherently anti-democratic (as opposed to IRV, PR-STV, Modified DeBorda or other ranked preference voting systems)
* revolving doors between voting machine vendors, lobbyists and election office staff
* electoral college system

That's just a partial list--but you get the idea. None of these issues are the fault of any one party. The probalem is that almost no one in either major party really wants to address these issues, since all the current office-holders have benefitted by the current twisted system.

Special request--can you ease off the special effects? It makes it harder to read what you have to say.

Clarification--when I said "almost no one in either major party really wants to address these issues" I meant "almost no elected representatives in either major party".

I'm sure there are party members in both major parties who would welcome changes to some or all of these issues. But the vested interestes control the campaign finance, and hence they control the elected officials, who are then reluctant to change the system which got them elected.

Mike,
Take it from me...now they will call you a troll !

For the record....I happen to agree with most of what I read here and I do not agree with you but the few times I've asked questions I've been attacked as a "troll" . ( I didn't even know what a troll was). I just continued to read and observe...don't say much and certainly don't ask a question!!! Sometimes I think they eat their young here.
Emma

Mike ,I'm not American and thought that the SCOTUS chose the POTUS in 2000 ,not the voters.

what's your blogs address ?
what's your take on Iraq?
what's your take exit polls?
what's your take leaking WMD CIA operatives identities?
what's your take on Jack Abramoff?
what's your take on Clinton Curtis?
etc.

MMIIXX,

Why should Mike J. owe you answers to any of these questions?

If he's a Republic voter or sympathizer, what's your issue with that? I don't think BB intends to close out readers or posters who have political allegiances that may differ with yours or Brad's.

Anyone's POV deserves expression as long as they're not being rude, nasty, personal attacks, deliberately misinforming, off-topic, etc.

If you disagree with Mike J.'s opinion, you (or anyone else) can say where you disagree and provide facts to support your viewpoint if you wish to strengthen your case or show where Mike J. is mistaken or inaccurate.

If someone's opinion on a topic is sensible or not that should be judged on its merits, not on that person's political leanings or their opinions on other issues.

I think we all have blind spots--e.g., we might be very open-minded on one issue but have a closed mind on another.

Mike J is another DUH TROLL who gets a troll stroke

For all his efforts at disinformation, personal attacks that show he has no logical underpinnings, whining, and regurgitating what other trolls have puked out here before in error ad nausem, he gets a troll stroke

That is all I can do for Mike J, another DUH TROLL who wastes space here.

CatherineA..Did you notice while you were at Kos that they always had comments putting down Bradblog and any info. about election fraud? So when I asked them in disbelief if they had taken money from Diebold..I was banned forever. I read from another site that they are looking for info on Diebold. Ha. They've been supressing it from the getgo. Reminds me of the Karlster.

Hi Molly,

Much appreciate your perspective.

I noticed the insulting comments they made about BradBlog and the pattern of interference any time there was significant new information relating to election fraud.

Recently they've started playing the "money" card on Brad, same as they always do on Bev Harris. (Such as Mike J.'s comment above.) This does 2 things, both of them harmful--it seeks to put doubt into those that are thinking of contributing, which could potentially damage legitimate fund-raising which is being used for legitimate purposes that serve the public good, and it also seeks to generally discredit someone in the hope that their credibility will be damaged so that their voice will be less effective.

The personal attacks and disinformation I've seen are shocking. Threads with serious new factual information are routinely disrupted. Misinformation or outright lies are trotted out and presented as accepted fact. Lots of anonymous posts attempt to create the impression that "everyone" thinks this way.

Some supposedly progressive websites appear to be actively attempting to discredit or obstruct those who speak out effectively about the seriousness of the voting/election problems.

There is a lot of energy going into suppression of factual information and of open dialogue. In relation to the election reform/voting machine/election potential fraud story, the smear campaign seems well-organized and particularly vicious.

The suppression itself is like a red flag or a big pointing finger saying, "Information is buried here--but we do not not want you to discover or share it, and we will do everything we can to prevent you from raising awareness about it."

Catherine A ,"Why should Mike J. owe you answers to any of these questions? "
I never said he "owed" an answer ,I asked for his position (take) on things that occurred on GWB's "watch".I ask these questions in order to understand how people on the one hand support a president but on the other hand refuse to investigate (for themselves) illegal activities condoned by said president .

Its a bit like supporting Hitler for the great highways be built and ignoring the second world war !

Catherine,
Thanks for your thoughtful commentary and mentioning that personal attacks take away from the substance of the argument. Like most, when I am attacked, I lashed back. I don't start it, I try to avoid it, but I do sometimes get dragged down by those here and elsewhere who engage in it.

You have a long list in your post #28. I'm on my PDA now so stylus typing is tedious, so I won't write a lot now. Just that I'll agree w/ most of your list except for the electoral college and majority rules in all but presidental races.

I hope those here who don't know why the electoral college was put in place will please read about it on a govt. or .edu website before continuing to think it's bad. I am always explaining that one to liberals. More later...

As for majority vote... why is that bad, in your opinion?

Cheers!

Dredd,
Other than what I said about your pic, I asked questions of you and even agreed w/ some of your statement. Yet now I'm a troll? Wow. I really feel insulted.... How can I live this down? tsk,tsk.

You had a typical liberal rude reponse. While all answers are responses, not all responses are answers. You did not answer any one of my questions which are serious, logical, & uses the perspective of history.

If you can't speak to those items, then I submit to everyone else that it's you that only want you liberal POV repeated. I guess you can't stand having your precious opinions challenged.

You also can't take what you dish out.....

Good Night!

Mike J. #37

I do appreciate some of the thinking behind electoral college (e.g. rural states v.s urban states and related issues) however it has become too distorting an influence. It means there is only serious campaigning done in the swing states and the rest are ignored. One "best of both worlds" solutions is for all 50 states to pass laws that would require their electoral college reps to cast their votes for the candidate receiving the largest popular vote. (Though IRV would be better still.)

The "winnner-takes-all" approaches in many states means that many voters are disenfranchised.

This is also the problem with majority voting. It inherently disenfranchises all those who are in the minority. Other voting methods do not do this. I won't get into a big discussion of different voting methodologies here, but there are many different kinds of ranked preference voting methods which are far more democratic.

Majority voting is one of the least democratic voting methods that exists. Most folks don't realize this, and don't realize that there are other practical options.

These other ways of voting are nonpartisan. They better reflect peoples' actual preferences among 3 or more options, whether about choosing a name for a club or business, electing someone to a committee or elected office, or ranking spending priorities. I've used them on a number of occasions, so I speak from personal experience.

If you want to learn more you can refer to Peter Emerson's website at http://deborda.org/ or refer to this wikipedia article about various voting systems. In particular, check out the headings for Single Winner methods and Multiple Winner methods.

Mike,

Go back to # 30....I TOLD YOU SO!!!! LOL

I love what these people say and their passion but you must NEVER question or argue or you are a "troll". I still maintain they eat their young. (you might be a "troll" for all I know. I'm still smarting from being called one and trying very hard to figure out if I am one!?!?!?
Emma

TALLAHASSEE, FLA---Florida Attorney General Charlie Crist announced Dec. 6, 2005 that his office sued two Palm Beach County men for unfair and deceptive trade practices stemming from allegations that their cabinet and countertop business took customers' deposits but failed to provide the requested items.
Crist's complaint alleges the two men never delivered promised services. Affidavits from consumers reportedly reflect that victims were cheated out of more than $175,000 in deposits. Crist’s office maintains the two Palm Beach County men are being sued under Florida's Deceptive and Unfair Trade Practices Act, which allows a penalty of $10,000 per violation, or $15,000 if the victim is a senior citizen or disabled adult.
In sharp contrast, Crist’s office refused to even investigate reports of a well connected law firm's widescale misappropriation of its clients' funds. I was employed as an attorney with FARAH, FARAH & ABBOTT, P.A. (a/k/a The Law Offices of Eddie Farah) in 2004 when I discovered the firm was frequently 'padding' costs charged to personal injury clients by $300 or more per case and had been doing so for several years. It overcharged hundreds of unsuspecting clients and the combined misappropriated funds are estimated at several hundred thousand dollars.
According to the firm's web site, it is now known as the Law Offices of Farah & Farah, P.A. The principals in the firm are Eddie Farah and his brother, Charlie E. Farah.
The law firm practiced as a professional association ("P.A."), an authorized business entity under The Rules Regulating The Florida Bar. Florida Bar Rule 4-8.6(a) specifically provides, "Authorized Business Entities. Lawyers may practice law in the form of professional service corporations, professional limited liability companies, sole proprietorships, general partnerships, or limited liability partnerships organized or qualified under applicable law. Such forms of practice are authorized business entities under these rules."
There are many reasons attorneys choose to form professional associations for their legal practices. The owners of a professional association are called shareholders and ordinarily do not have personal liability for liabilities that arise in the ordinary course of business or from the malpractice of other attorneys at the law firm. This is one of the major benefits of operating a law practice as a professional association.
My Jan. 10, 2005 letter to Crist’s office reported the law firm’s repeated acts of consumer theft/fraud in the years 2002 through 2004 and emphasized, “Given the frequency and duration of [the firm’s] overcharging practice, many clients and considerable sums of money are involved in these matters." Crist’s office responded by
letter dated Jan. 24, 2005, simply identifying The Florida Bar as the agency responsible for reviewing grievances against Florida lawyers.
I know of no legal authority exempting law firms operating as professional associations from being prosecuted under Florida's Deceptive and Unfair Trade Practices Act. My concerns over the firm's illicit overcharging practices had already been reported to The Florida Bar in Sept. 2004 by
letter to Donald M. Spangler, Esq., Chief Branch Discipline Counsel. Surprisingly, a full year went by with no contact from any representatives of The Florida Bar to investigate the reported widescale fraud and misappropriation of clients' funds by The Law Offices of Eddie Farah. Not a single inquiry from The Florida Bar by letter, email or telephone.
When I followed up with The Florida Bar in late 2005 concerning the firm’s overcharging practices, I received a succinct
Oct. 27, 2005 email from Spangler stating, "The file to which you refer was closed. The grievance committee considered the matter after investigation and an audit by the Bar Staff Auditor, and found there was no probable cause to pursue disciplinary proceedings. They did elect to send a letter of advice to the firm."
The fact The Law Offices of Eddie Farah overcharged clients by substantial sums is not in dispute. Attorney John A. Weiss, Esq. of Tallahassee represented the firm's principals, attorneys and brothers Eddie and Chuck Farah, before the Bar.
Weiss admitted in a Sept. 22, 2005 letter to The Bar that the firm overcharged clients stating,
"As an aside, I would advise you that the firm has refunded in excess of $120,000.00 ... to those clients who were inadvertently overcharged for costs. Approximately $10,000.00 remains undisbursed because the firm, and the private investigator it subsequently hired, could not find the individuals."
Even The Florida Bar's own audit of the firm's trust account confirmed $130,000 in overcharges and a lack of substantial compliance with Bar rules governing trust acounts in the years 2002 through 2004.
According to a Jan. 6, 2006 letter Spangler, "The Florida Bar cannot impose disciplinary action against a law firm, only against individual lawyers."
This is just one case pointing out the dangerous loophole unscrupulous legal practitioners exploit to the public’s detriment. If law firms aren't subject to disciplinary action by The Florida Bar, why won't Attorney General Crist investigate the professional assocation's admitted overcharging practices under Florida's Deceptive and Unfair Trade Practices Act?
Someone must take responsibility for protecting clients defrauded by law firms and the public needs to know who that is.
Copyright © 2006 by Jeffrey R. Hill. All rights reserved.

TALLAHASSEE, FLA---Florida Attorney General Charlie Crist announced Dec. 6, 2005 that his office sued two Palm Beach County men for unfair and deceptive trade practices stemming from allegations that their cabinet and countertop business took customers' deposits but failed to provide the requested items.
Crist's complaint alleges the two men never delivered promised services. Affidavits from consumers reportedly reflect that victims were cheated out of more than $175,000 in deposits. Crist’s office maintains the two Palm Beach County men are being sued under Florida's Deceptive and Unfair Trade Practices Act, which allows a penalty of $10,000 per violation, or $15,000 if the victim is a senior citizen or disabled adult.
In sharp contrast, Crist’s office refused to even investigate reports of a well connected law firm's widescale misappropriation of its clients' funds. I was employed as an attorney with FARAH, FARAH & ABBOTT, P.A. (a/k/a The Law Offices of Eddie Farah) in 2004 when I discovered the firm was frequently 'padding' costs charged to personal injury clients by $300 or more per case and had been doing so for several years. It overcharged hundreds of unsuspecting clients and the combined misappropriated funds are estimated at several hundred thousand dollars.
According to the firm's web site, it is now known as the Law Offices of Farah & Farah, P.A. The principals in the firm are Eddie Farah and his brother, Charlie E. Farah.
The law firm practiced as a professional association ("P.A."), an authorized business entity under The Rules Regulating The Florida Bar. Florida Bar Rule 4-8.6(a) specifically provides, "Authorized Business Entities. Lawyers may practice law in the form of professional service corporations, professional limited liability companies, sole proprietorships, general partnerships, or limited liability partnerships organized or qualified under applicable law. Such forms of practice are authorized business entities under these rules."
There are many reasons attorneys choose to form professional associations for their legal practices. The owners of a professional association are called shareholders and ordinarily do not have personal liability for liabilities that arise in the ordinary course of business or from the malpractice of other attorneys at the law firm. This is one of the major benefits of operating a law practice as a professional association.
My Jan. 10, 2005 letter to Crist’s office reported the law firm’s repeated acts of consumer theft/fraud in the years 2002 through 2004 and emphasized, “Given the frequency and duration of [the firm’s] overcharging practice, many clients and considerable sums of money are involved in these matters." Crist’s office responded by
letter dated Jan. 24, 2005, simply identifying The Florida Bar as the agency responsible for reviewing grievances against Florida lawyers.
I know of no legal authority exempting law firms operating as professional associations from being prosecuted under Florida's Deceptive and Unfair Trade Practices Act. My concerns over the firm's illicit overcharging practices had already been reported to The Florida Bar in Sept. 2004 by
letter to Donald M. Spangler, Esq., Chief Branch Discipline Counsel. Surprisingly, a full year went by with no contact from any representatives of The Florida Bar to investigate the reported widescale fraud and misappropriation of clients' funds by The Law Offices of Eddie Farah. Not a single inquiry from The Florida Bar by letter, email or telephone.
When I followed up with The Florida Bar in late 2005 concerning the firm’s overcharging practices, I received a succinct
Oct. 27, 2005 email from Spangler stating, "The file to which you refer was closed. The grievance committee considered the matter after investigation and an audit by the Bar Staff Auditor, and found there was no probable cause to pursue disciplinary proceedings. They did elect to send a letter of advice to the firm."
The fact The Law Offices of Eddie Farah overcharged clients by substantial sums is not in dispute. Attorney John A. Weiss, Esq. of Tallahassee represented the firm's principals, attorneys and brothers Eddie and Chuck Farah, before the Bar.
Weiss admitted in a Sept. 22, 2005 letter to The Bar that the firm overcharged clients stating,
"As an aside, I would advise you that the firm has refunded in excess of $120,000.00 ... to those clients who were inadvertently overcharged for costs. Approximately $10,000.00 remains undisbursed because the firm, and the private investigator it subsequently hired, could not find the individuals."
Even The Florida Bar's own audit of the firm's trust account confirmed $130,000 in overcharges and a lack of substantial compliance with Bar rules governing trust acounts in the years 2002 through 2004.
According to a Jan. 6, 2006 letter Spangler, "The Florida Bar cannot impose disciplinary action against a law firm, only against individual lawyers."
This is just one case pointing out the dangerous loophole unscrupulous legal practitioners exploit to the public’s detriment. If law firms aren't subject to disciplinary action by The Florida Bar, why won't Attorney General Crist investigate the professional assocation's admitted overcharging practices under Florida's Deceptive and Unfair Trade Practices Act?
Someone must take responsibility for protecting clients defrauded by law firms and the public needs to know who that is.
Copyright © 2006 by Jeffrey R. Hill. All rights reserved.