This morning on the local news the weather girl and the other female reporter were talking about the phone data base:

"I hope they weren't tapping my phone. giggle giggle!"
"Me too. he he giggle giggle!"

I wanted to reach through the screen and wring their scrawney little necks! They are you stupids - get a clue!

CNN is showing a poll conducted by the Washington Post last night where about 62% of people polled support the NSA Call Database program. Only 1/3 of people did not support it.

Of the 2/3 that support the program, about 40% were very supportive of the program.

Some how it's hard for me to believe that less people are bothered by this program than the NSA's Warrantless eavesdropping program.

Fox News has already put the issue to rest because the President's statement "cleared up the confusion about the program."

It will be interesting to see other polls as they come out. We already know what the misinformed Fox audience will say.

OT: Speaking of misinformed Fox viewers... In a Zogby poll released yesterday, people were asked if they believed the 2004 election was stolen. They were also asked (among other questions) which news source they preferred.

Viewers of every major corporate media outlet had a significant number of viewers that believed the 2004 Presidential election was stolen --- except for Fox news. See the following chart...

Nepal had a person who fancied themselves as king for awhile too, but now his cabinet members are in jail (link here).

The people revolted and pointed out who was in charge.

I do not think that will happen in the US, but would be delighted to be wrong.

HERE’s A BIG F-ING’ REASON FOR WHY EVERYONE SHOULD CARE about the NSA tapping your phones.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-srv/ national/ dotmil/ arkin020199.htm

Voice “morphing” technology developed at the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico.

“…They took various high quality recordings of generals and experimented with creating fake statements. One of the most memorable is Colin Powell stating “I am being treated well by my captors.”

By taking just a 10-minute digital recording of [anyone’s] voice, scientist George Papcun is able, in near real time, to clone speech patterns and develop an accurate facsimile. A [US General] was so impressed, he asked for a copy of the tape.

How about Bush targeting and labeling you as an “enemy combatant”? With this technology, anyone could “morph” your voice and record a phone call of you saying you want to assassinate the president or were plotting a terrorist attack. GET IT NOW?

I haven’t seen anyone mention this yet - but the reason this poll’s results are so off from what would seem possible might also have to do with who did the poll..

ABC credits the poll to TNS Intersearch Corporation in Pennsylvania. A little digging reveals this:

“TNS is one of the world’s leading market information groups. We provide market measurement, analysis and insight through our global network of operating companies in 70 countries. Working with national and multi-national organizations, we help our clients to develop effective business strategies and enhance relationships with their customers. In July 2003, the group merged with NFO WorldGroup, Inc. Further information on TNS can be found on www.tns-global.com.”

TNS Intersearch is a unit of UK-based market research conglomerate Taylor Nelson Sofres.
according to Hoovers “TNS Telecoms, a unit of UK-based market research heavyweight Taylor Nelson Sofres, provides market data and research reports to clients in the telecommunications industry. The company’s primary clients are telecommunications service providers”

So the poll was done by a company whose primary client is telco’s.

not that they would have any interest in scewing a poll about how people feel about telcos …

http://www.hoovers.com/t.../free-co-factsheet.xhtml

JP

Good links, and well said.

The strongest energies within us want a good country, good friends, good blogs, good bloggers, and a sense of belonging to all things good.

By good I mean our own concept of good, and that sense of security and well being.

Things that challenge that fundamental energy threaten us at a very, very serious level.

It is easy to reject words or ideas that threaten that sense of stability, security, and well being.

The sentiment "Our government is a good government and only seeks to protect us" is an extension of that.

When someone says the government is up to no good, our world can be shattered if we believe it. And no person really wants to be shattered that way.

And so we have widespread denial as a safety mechanism for protecting ourselves.

The only problem with that is it will not work, and the long term results will destroy the good the denial attempted to protect.

JP

Here is a working link in format this blog will do for you if you go to the "CLICK HERE ..." just above the edit box where you type in your URL.

Link to JP's article here.

Conyers, Harman introduce bill to kill NSA phone call database

http://www.rawstory.com/...uce_Act_to_end_0511.html

#2 - David

If you go http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=1953464 there is an article about that poll you mention and an opportunity to vote on an online poll. Currently the results are the opposite of the fake Wapo poll.

I am beginning to wonder if any thing can be done to stop this man from doing what he wants to do,I wake up every morning wondering what he has done now,people shouldn't have to live that way.Phone calls,faxes,email's don't faze the so-called people that are suppose to be representing us,so what now.I am switching my long-distance phone service from AT&T to some one else and you can bet they will know why.

Thanks Dredd, much appreciated.

Now for the HAT TRICK... Brad and I disagree on 9/11. Brad, I must say that after viewing this film, I found the content is arguably relevant to the NSA Program in regards to the SOURCE of HOW THE HELL WE GOT HERE. This young filmmaker makes a compelling case based on facts and empirical data, not hunches - even if you don't agree with the entirety of the piece, if just 10% of it is TRUE, we are in some serious S**T.

The following documentary is on GOOGLE VIDEO @ #3 and RISING. It's worth watching - approximately 2 hours in length.

911 Loose Change 2nd Edition with extra footage - Google Video

JP #11

What do you mean "Brad and I disagree on 9/11"?

I have never heard Brad take any position on any of the plethora of 9/11 issues available for discussion and/or debate.

Dredd #12

I can only say that I believe 9/11 was inside job and if not, at minimum, it was allowed to happen.

It's So Confusing . . . . . all this Corruption & Criminals we need a "Crime Organizational Chart". . .

#4 Now you know how the Bin Laden be hidin tapes are made.

#6 Dredd

Exactly!

You know, when you think about it--this corrupt situation in our government could have been predicted, if we had been alert instead of feeling safe & comfortable.
There is so much money & so much power that goes with being the leader of our country that criminals just can't resist it!
We all know that the kind of people we get that want to be politicians are individuals that walk a fine line between being a sociopath & a wheeler-dealer anyway--always hungry for attention, power & money--able to talk for an hour yet no one can pin down just what they said.. (to be honest about how our elected officials are).
These guys just slipped on down that slippery slope into being sociopaths & criminal activity.
We should have been excited & raised hell back in the eighties when Reagan dropped the Fairness Doctrine from the FCC rules & later when they allowed media consolidation.
Actually, our elected officials SHOULD have screamed bloody murder THEN, if they were doing their job--they should have known what it meant for our country & told us then. So much for doing a good job.
They knew what would happen to the media when they dropped those rules--because that's why they had the rules in the first place--to keep a vital & honest group that would tell the people what was happening & be a watch dog for the people & thus, Democracy.
The criminals knew they could manipulate the public if they had control of the media--that's why they did it--it was no accident--it was planned.
And because most people were not involved enough (myself included) to understand what the change in those rules meant for US--they got away with it.
And they've been slowly & steadily consolidating power out from under us ever since with barely a whimper from the people.

That's what I mean when I say that we have the government we deserve--the best damn government money can buy.

I believe the key to their takeover was the media coup.
We used to have reporters at every department in the government--it was their regular beat. They knew when something was not kosher & sniffed & poked into it.
Now we don't have any investigative reporters because if they uncover any untoward information--their producers kill the story & won't put it on air. If they would, they'd probably lose their jobs.
The newpapers only hire those special writers that are not too proud to shill for their criminal bosses--the quality writers are gone.
No one wants an opinion piece from a quality writer anymore, because they don't want any truth to get out & rile the citizens.

I'm just waiting for the administration to redefine the word "wiretap". In case they do, here's the definition:

wiretap
n : the act of tapping a telephone or telegraph line to get information [syn: tap]

Will they next argue that a call record isn't nformation?

On a different talking point, I've worked on systems for the phone companies that collect call records for billing. These systems prevent employees from seeing the call records.

Funny, that doesn't look like bush..it looks like tony soprano :O :crazy:

as for the other pic of preznit 29%, saw that on raw story forum... too funny..

annnnnnnd now bill clinton out ranks bush in honesty.. (posted details on my blog)..

this is all just getting damn funny

is it just me, or does it seem 9 out of 10 times you can look at someone and tell if they are republican or democrat? like fogo? lol

Sorry to go off-topic but

"Rove Informs White House He Will Be Indicted"
By Jason Leopold
t r u t h o u t Report

Friday 12 May 2006

"Within the last week, Karl Rove told President Bush and Chief of Staff Joshua Bolten, as well as a few other high level administration officials, that he will be indicted in the CIA leak case and will immediately resign his White House job when the special counsel publicly announces the charges against him, according to sources..."
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/051206Y.shtml

Dear retards,

Where does the governemnt get thsi info? From the phone company. ITS THIRD PARTY INFORMATION! not that you have let facts get in your way before.

Can anyone tell me what bill was signed in 1994 after it was confirmed by both democratically run houses?

No, because your kept dumb by your liberal vacuum.

Ricky

That would be the extension to the FISA act which allowed it to also cover physical searches.

You stupid moron - we all KNOW THAT!

IT IS THE FACT THAT BUSHCO IS IGNORING IT THAT PISSES US OFF!

Have you learned nothing here?

Now go away until you have something intelligent to say!

Is MSNBC the only MSM TV that airs stuff like this? Was this guy on CNN?

Today's Democracy NOW! headlines:
------------------------------------------
Headlines for May 12, 2006

- Bush Admin. Stonewalls Questions on Latest NSA Revelations
- IAEA Head: Iran Dispute Can Be Resolved Diplomatically
- Chomsky Criticizes US Stance on Iran
- 4 US Troops Killed in Reported Accident
- Diego Garcia Islanders Win Legal Battle To Return
- EU Lawmakers In US For CIA Prisons, Rendition Investigation
- US Mulls Troop Deployment To Mexican Border
- Kentucky Governor Indicted For Conspiracy, Misconduct
- Bush’s Approval Rating Sinks to 29%
- Three Major Telecom Companies Help US Government Spy on Millions of Americans
- The Yes Men Strike Again: Group Poses As Halliburton Reps At “Catastrophic Loss” Conference
- Mothers Say No To War: Peace Activists Plan Mother’s Day Protest Outside White House

CNN Headlines:
-------------------
- Pentagon weighs border deployment
- FBI raids home of ex-CIA official Video
- 200 burned to death in Nigeria pipeline blast Map
- Telecoms claim to guard privacy Your e-mails
- Opinion poll pits Bush vs. Clinton Video
- Autistic Army recruit released from duty
- Conjoined twins separated in risky surgery
- Suicide warning issued for young Paxil users
- The gruesome hunt for killer alligator Read
- Moussaoui appeals judgment, sentence Timeline
- Goodbye to a gas-guzzling status symbol
- The most popular baby names in the U.S.
- 360° Blog: Minutemen's rallying cry: No amnesty

FOX News:
------------
General Motors to End Hummer H1 Production
•Attorney Claims No DNA Match in Duke Case
•Corps of Engineers: N.O. Floodgates Not Ready
•Federal Agents Search House of CIA Official
•Up to 200 Killed in Nigerian Gas Pipeline Explosion
•Stocks Tumble for 2nd Day
- Gas Prices Near One-Year Low
•Hayden on Hill Amid NSA Flap
- Qwest Balked on NSA Data
•More Uranium Found in Iran•American Sets World Record in 100 Meter Race
•Trappers Hunt Killer Gator
- Video: Beauty and the Beast
•FDA: Paxil May Up Suicide Risk
•Iraqi Army Units Clash
•Tony Snow Begins Job as White House Press Secretary
•Emily, Jacob Still Most Popular Baby Names in U.S.
•New York DJ Fired Over Sexual, Racist Comments
•Study: Female Chat-Room Names Get More Threats
•NEW! American Idol Center

Notice how Democracy NOW! presents the NSA spying topic vs. CNN & FOX.

Democracy NOW! states that the Bush administration is stonewalling questions on the illegal NSA spying on Americans.

CNN says that the traitorous telecom companies (save for Quest) are "guarding our privacy". Yeah, right!!! BULLSHIT!!!!!!! From the "corporate" perspective, CNN presents us news.

And how about FOX News? I can't even FIND anything about the illegal NSA spying!!! Kook-Aid viewers of FOX News don't even know what's happening! Didn't a study prove that a while back, by the way? That FOX News viewers don't know what's going on, compared to viewers of the Daily Show??? Out of sight, out of mind!!! For FOX idiots!!!

BUT....BOTH CNN & FOX are following the killer alligator!!! Now, that's important!!! Not NSA spying!!!

CNN & FOX are pitiful, disgusting, and embarrassing, compared to Democracy NOW! news.

What's more important news, that the Republican Governor of Kentucky was indicted, or the killer alligator??? You will never see a story about a killer alligator on Democracy NOW! news.

Lawyer: Ex-Qwest Exec Ignored NSA Request
By KATHERINE SHRADER, Associated Press Writers

27 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Telecommunications giant Qwest refused to provide the government with access to telephone records of its 15 million customers after deciding the request violated privacy law, a lawyer for a former company executive said Friday. For a second day, the former National Security Agency director defended the spy agency's activities.

In a written statement, the attorney for former Qwest CEO Joseph Nacchio said the government approached the company in the fall of 2001 seeking access to the phone records of Qwest customers, with neither a warrant nor approval from a special court established to handle surveillance matters.

"Mr. Nacchio concluded that these requests violated the privacy requirements of the Telecommunications Act," attorney Herbert J. Stern said from his Newark, N.J., office.

The Bush administration is facing new questions about civil liberties after the disclosure that the NSA collected information on millions of Americans' everyday telephone calls.

I'm a Quest customer. The minute I heard about the NSA data collection I called to get the address of the corporate headquarters to give 'em some kudos. The young man who helped me told me he had gotten seven calls in a row about this. People do care.

Qwest. The Fascists are making me tired.

These issues are so important and its so interesting to see people who have courage speaking out about them.

I was so impressed watching these videos of Johnathon Turley and also the Feingold speech.
I am also impressed buy Black Box voting's Bev Harris and I am sure there are quite a few more people standing up. These people are all heros just like Brad and all of you who take the time to care. I am impressed by the Guy who broke the voting machines too.

Kudos to all of you.

Ricky #21

Of course you are right. We should stop blaming poor Diebold, ES&S, and Sequoia. It's the dems fault.

The dems did not stop HAVA, Bush in '00, and Bush in '04. Where the hell were they?

The republicans, greens, libertarians, and independents stopped Bush. It is about time everyone knew this.

What have we come to? The dems are just faking it by telling us that they are the minority party in congress, don't have control of what happens in the white house, and can't subpoena anyone for anything.

I think it is time for the dems to go public on this national secret that they are really the party of power in congress, the white house, and in the press, so that this ruse is over once and for all.

The republicans have been wonderful to go along with this dem ruse for so long. But enough is enough, it is time for the dems to face up.

I believe the polls were correct. I am not surprised that many favor the collection of this type of personal data to help thwart terrorism. But I think it's because alot on the subject remains unsaid:

IMHO:

1) I think part of the reason that they are doing this is to catch leakers within the administration. Bush said, leaks are a national security problem. Bush said they are doing this for national security.

2) I think this leak was purposeful because it would have come out during Hayden's Q&A and that would be worse - it would have looked more like they were hiding something (gee);

3) The real problem is what they will do with the information assuming someone is "mined" as questionable. Will they go around the legal system once again? Will innocent people get hammered? Would they have a fair hearing? That's what people aren't thinking of when they are asked whether or not the tactic - in and of itself - is a reasonable one. So, it’s really a “bad” question because it ignores implications;

4) Statistically speaking, I wonder if the small percent of terrorists living inside our borders is a large enough number to DO any reasonable data-mining. I could be wrong, data-mining is meant for finding small things, I think. I would love to hear some input from a statistician familiar with data-mining.

5) If you are selected for a telephone interview, please ask who is sponsoring the survey. If the interviewer will not answer (e.g., says it must be secret so as not to bias results, or says there are multiples), then say goodbye. Most reasonable surveys should tell you who the sponsor is (e.g., department of ed, department of labor, local school system, etc.). Then make an informed choice whether or not to participate. This should enable you to ignore all the marketing surveys and join only those for which you would like to provide your information. This also should turn crappy research upside down with too many refusals, they’ll get the hint soon enough.

I have not read all the posts here yet, but Glenn Greenwald makes some excellent points here...

http://glenngreenwald.bl...ria-and-nsa-program.html

"Unclaimed Territory" - by Glenn Greenwald:

"Somehow, The Washington Post --- on the very same day most people learned about the new NSA data-collection program --- managed to conduct a poll which purports to show that "63 percent of Americans said they found the NSA program to be an acceptable way to investigate terrorism."...

"I have a hard time believing that less than 24 hours after this program was first revealed by USA Today, most Americans had informed themselves about what this program is..."

"...When the NSA eavesdropping scandal was first disclosed, Rasmussen Reports quickly issued a blatantly flawed poll purporting to show that "Sixty-four percent (64%) of Americans believe the National Security Agency (NSA) should be allowed to intercept telephone conversations between terrorism suspects in other countries and people living in the United States. " The question mentioned nothing about warrants. It mentioned nothing about FISA. And it specified that the Government would be eavesdropping only on conversations "between terrorism suspects."

The only surprise with the results was that only 64% favored that. One would think that virtually everyone would favor eavesdropping on terrorism suspects..."

He goes on to say that this claptrap is AS USUAL being repeated & then swallowed whole by dems.

A must-read, imho.

As much as I wanted someone to smack Bill Maher upside the head last night when he asked Cornel West, re stolen elections, "Do you believe these conspiracy theories?" (wonderful, unbiased framing of the question there, Bill), at least he & his panel made it a point to say several times that the main issue with NSA wiretaps is NOT privacy & civil liberties (although obviously those things are being unconscionably trashed), but the fact that the wiretapping is WARRANTLESS & ILLEGAL.

Miss P,
You wrote:
"I believe the polls were correct."

Maybe. But please read that Glenn Greenwald article (#31) before embracing that conclusion. That poll did pop out there VERY fast.

Speaking of polls, I just found this...

"Newsweek Poll: Americans Wary of NSA Spying"

"...According to the latest NEWSWEEK poll, 53 percent of Americans think the NSA’s surveillance program “goes too far in invading people’s privacy,” while 41 percent see it as a necessary tool to combat terrorism..."

"...57 percent said that....the Bush-Cheney Administration has “gone too far in expanding presidential power.”..."

Although the article also says that

"...Bush’s approval rating has dropped to.... 35 percent..."

Guess they missed the 29% news.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com.../12771821/site/newsweek/

Again, it appears that the correct question was not asked. They are focusing on the privacy issue. They should ask the question:

"Do you approve or disapprove of the administration BREAKING EXISTING LAW to wiretap American citizens WITHOUT A WARRANT?"

Where are the rest of the Turley's in this country? How is this possible that this hasn't gone to the Supreme Court yet? A Constitutional crises IS looming and there will be hell to pay (one can only hope).

As for Ricky, you ARE a doche. Grow a brain please, for all our sakes. At least Mike J. has some points. You're just a liberal bashing, holier than thou nitwit.

Oh, my bad, re #32.
Maher was referring to people saying 9/11 is an inside job as "conspiracy theories", not stolen elections. Just caught it in the rerun. Guess I was more sleepy than I realized!

Off topic, but worth a read.

Paper: Military Ignoring Mental Illness
By Associated Press

3 hours ago
HARTFORD, Conn. - U.S. military troops with severe psychological problems have been sent to Iraq or kept in combat, even when superiors have been aware of signs of mental illness, a newspaper reported for Sunday editions.

The Hartford Courant, citing records obtained under the federal Freedom of Information Act and more than 100 interviews of families and military personnel, reported numerous cases in which the military failed to follow its own regulations in screening, treating and evacuating mentally unfit troops from Iraq.

In 1997, Congress ordered the military to assess the mental health of all deploying troops. The newspaper, citing Pentagon statistics, said fewer than 1 in 300 service members were referred to a mental health professional before shipping out for Iraq as of October 2005.

Twenty-two U.S. troops committed suicide in Iraq last year, accounting for nearly one in five of all non-combat deaths and the highest suicide rate since the war started, the newspaper said.

Some service members who committed suicide in 2004 and 2005 were kept on duty despite clear signs of mental distress, sometimes after being prescribed antidepressants with little or no mental health counseling or monitoring, the Courant reported. Those findings conflict with regulations adopted last year by the Army that caution against the use of antidepressants for "extended deployments."

"I can't imagine something more irresponsible than putting a soldier suffering from stress on (antidepressants), when you know these drugs can cause people to become suicidal and homicidal," said Vera Sharav, president of the Alliance for Human Research Protection, a New York-based advocacy group. "You're creating chemically activated time bombs."

Jo-Joy #36

Your quoted article says "Some service members who committed suicide in 2004 and 2005 were kept on duty despite clear signs of mental distress".

That must have been by special order of the Commander-in-Chief after "god" okayed it?

A Greg Palast story entitled "THE SPIES WHO SHAG US THE TIMES AND USA TODAY HAVE MISSED THE BIGGER STORY ---AGAIN", is painfully accurate.

The data they collect is used to intimidate, threaten, or neutralize political opponents.

The political opponents, if the 71% disfavor-the-president polls are correct, are the American people who have opposing views to the republican dictatorship.

Sorry, off topic again. Still, it is another good read.....

Cheney the Focus of CIA Leak Court Filing
By PETE YOST, Associated Press Writer

3 hours ago

WASHINGTON - In a new court filing, the prosecutor in the CIA leak case revealed that Vice President Dick Cheney made handwritten references to CIA officer Valerie Plame _ albeit not by name _ before her identity was publicly exposed.

The new court filing is the second in little more than a month by Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald mentioning Cheney as being closely focused with his then-chief of staff, I. Lewis Libby, on Bush administration critic Joseph Wilson, who is married to Plame.

With the two court filings, Fitzgerald has pointed to an important role for the vice president in the weeks leading up to the leaking of Plame's identity.

In the latest court filing late Friday, Fitzgerald said he intends to introduce at Libby's trial in January a copy of Wilson's op-ed article in The New York Times "bearing handwritten notations by the vice president." The article was published on July 6, 2003, eight days before Plame's identity was exposed by conservative columnist Bob Novak.

The notations "support the proposition that publication of the Wilson Op Ed acutely focused the attention of the vice president and the defendant _ his chief of staff _ on Mr. Wilson, on the assertions made in the article and on responding to those assertions."

The article containing Cheney's notes "reflects the contemporaneous reaction of the vice president to Mr. Wilson's Op Ed article," the prosecutor said. "This is relevant to establishing some of the facts that were viewed as important by the defendant's immediate superior, including whether Mr. Wilson's wife had 'sent him on a junket,' the filing states.

The reference is to the fact that the CIA sent Wilson on a trip to Africa in 2002 to check out a report that Iraq had made attempts to acquire uranium yellowcake from Niger.

Wilson concluded that it was highly doubtful an agreement to purchase uranium had been made.

The Bush administration used the intelligence on supposed efforts by Iraq to acquire uranium from Africa to bolster its case for going to war.

After the invasion, with the Bush White House under pressure because no weapons of mass destruction had been found in Iraq, Wilson wrote the op ed piece for The Times. In it, he accused the Bush administration of exaggerating prewar intelligence to exaggerate an Iraqi threat from weapons of mass destruction.

David Edwards #2

Thanks for the graphical representation of the existence of intelligent Americans. Something we NEVER get in these days of brain damaging PHONY POLLING!

Unless I've been misinformed, Hannity and Limbaugh used to think Zogby was a good source. Got any information on that Ricky! I didn't think so!

This move by this Administration basically tells us how they view the American prople. We are each of us, simply by having a telephone, a suspect in the "war on terrah".

200 Million American Suspects.

MSM Misses The Bigger Story About Wiretapping: AGAIN!!!

When is THIS going to be news?

http://blogs.abcnews.com.../05/federal_source_.html

ABC News reports that their sources are being ferreted out by the CIA.

The Washington Post, NY Times and others are also apparently under the microscope.

ABC News, Wa Po, NYT, whistle-blowers, and leakers are not the criminals here,..

look inside the oval office and within the members of the bu$$$h administration,.. if you wish to locate the real treasonous criminals,.. the time is long pass due that they should be prosecuted.

Link : The Guilty Answer For Their Crimes Not the Innocent