READER COMMENTS ON
"VIDEO - Murtha: Military Still Trying to Spin Haditha Massacre"
(48 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
said on 5/30/2006 @ 1:05 pm PT...
When "God" (MSM) is on your side you wait, arm twist, threaten, and finally get "the good military truth" out.
Sometimes we have to wait until everyone caves in and gives it up ... for "you are either for us or agin us".
Murtha use to be for us, now he is agin us. Truth is reel simple, like Hollywood.
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
said on 5/30/2006 @ 1:15 pm PT...
Is this the story, where they first said the victims were faked by dragging them from another killing? Or was that another one? There was one story out there, where the Iraqi's said there was a massacre, and the Pentagon said they faked it. Is this that same story? It was a while back, but so was this.
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
said on 5/30/2006 @ 1:29 pm PT...
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
said on 5/30/2006 @ 2:07 pm PT...
I'm really having trouble understanding how US soldiers could do these things. Making unarmed men, women and children kneel, photographing them, then shooting them in the head? Shooting a mother and the baby she shields, while she begs for mercy?
But I will suggest this: that only soldiers who are fighting on the side of WRONG can do such things.
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
said on 5/30/2006 @ 2:48 pm PT...
#2 Big Dan
The Haditha massacre is different from the one that Shiites probably faked in Baghdad.
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
said on 5/30/2006 @ 2:59 pm PT...
Ever think of waiting for EVIDENCE or CHARGES before convicting your fellow Americans?
No, those gratuities are saved for terrorists on this blog.
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
said on 5/30/2006 @ 3:17 pm PT...
I can only tell you from my own experience in Vietnam that the grunts' judgment is totally thrown out of whack when you fight in a country where they smile at you and pat you on the back one minute, and then they set a land mine alongside the road to blow you to smithereens a few miles up the road as you leave.
I was blown up with a land mine in a village that had previously been responsible for killing our platoon sergeant as we left the village. Shot him in the head after we did a friendly search. We went into this village this time with a vengeance. We knew they hated us, and we knew that the enemy was in that crowd of people. We tore through their belongings and burned their hutches and pretty much destroyed anything else that could be of value "to the NVA or the Vietcong." What is of value to the NVA and VC, and not of value to the people in the village? We didn't care!! We torched the village and pushed the people around like they were all criminals. And then, to top it off, my radio man and I tripped a wire just outside of the village, and we were both lucky enough to come home on stretchers.
It makes your mind compensate in very strange ways in order to exist. To try to imagine how tortured your mind is when sitting in your comfortable living room watching the evening news is impossible. Our SOLE MISSION is to stay alive. You begin to hate anyone and everyone...because it can be anyone and everyone that wants you dead.
I knew I was going to come home in a body bag from Vietnam. I was so lucky to come home alive. I went into my platoon when it had 8 soldiers left. We made it 23. By the time I left, 3 months later, I had seen at least 25-30 of my friends come home in a body bag or taken by helicopter mortally wounded from the field. I saw a child with his jaw hanging from his face after he was shot by soldiers when he was fleeing. I saw the Kit Carson Scout's (captured NVA or VC) torture their own to extract information by placing gunny sacks over their heads and pouring water on their faces while their hands were tied behind their backs and the screamed and cried. How many of us would step up and tell the Kit Carsons to stop that?? You lose your mind in war.
To wonder how they could have gone crazy after another friend had been blown up by a cowardly roadside bomb is almost as crazy. You are consumed with hate and fear, and at some point, it is like the mob mentality. It takes over if you are not held in check. These Marines were not.
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
said on 5/30/2006 @ 4:39 pm PT...
pRicky, the preliminary investigation all but settles it.. Pictures from cell phones of guys that were there who said they did it? WTF more do you need?
It's ok pRicky.. I know you will say "hey, who cares! They were rag-head Muslims anyway!".. right? Your hatred for all thing "not like you" is so strong that you can justify torture and murder, then spit on people who say "look, due process exists for a reason, to protect everyone" and call them terrorist sympathizers? Does that make you a murder sympathizer since you're stuanchly defending soldiers that (by all current evidence) murdered women and children?
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
said on 5/30/2006 @ 5:56 pm PT...
You are correct but this is not a partisan issue. This is tragedy for all of mankind.
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
said on 5/30/2006 @ 6:08 pm PT...
It is called post-traumatic stress disorder and the soldiers in this war are experiencing it in droves. They are on duty indefinitely and given anti-depressants to help them cope with the relentless stress. Bush does not want to instigate a draft to fight his phony war, because then his approval ratings would be in the single digits, so he leaves kids in this stressful situation for years at a time. Finally and tragically some will crack.
FROM THE AP:
In separate interviews with The Associated Press on Monday, the parents of two of the Marines who were members of a unit sent into Haditha to help remove the bodies said their children have been traumatized by the experience.
Lance Cpl. Andrew Wright, 20, and Lance Cpl. Roel Ryan Briones, 21, were ordered to photograph the scene with personal cameras they happened to be carrying the day of the attack, the families said. Briones' mother, Susie, said her son told her that he saw the bodies of 23 dead Iraqis that day.
"It was horrific. It was a terrible scene," Susie Briones said in a tearful interview at her home in California's San Joaquin Valley.
Navy investigators confiscated Briones' camera, his mother said. Wright's parents, Patty and Frederick Wright of Novato, declined to comment on what might have happened to the photos their son took but said he turned over all of his information to the Navy.
"He is the Forrest Gump of the military," Frederick Wright said. "He ended up in the spotlight through no fault of his own."
Ryan Briones told the Los Angeles Times that Navy investigators had interrogated him twice in Iraq and that they wanted to know whether bodies had been tampered with. He turned over his digital camera but did not know what happened to it after that.
Susie Briones said the military had done little to help her son, who goes by his middle name, deal with his post-traumatic stress disorder.
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
JUDGE OF JUDGES
said on 5/30/2006 @ 6:21 pm PT...
These criminials must be removed from office . . . . . Even if it is on their last day.
We must show that we will never condone a criminal regime in America . . . (The bush Crime family)
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
said on 5/30/2006 @ 6:41 pm PT...
Interesting, Murtha said that this cover up is aiding the terrorists. So, Ricky, I guess Bush & Rumsfeld are aiding the terrorists...contrary to every time you chirped that WE were aiding the terrorists!
Dave Edwards: I guess, the point is, that if this was a cover up, THAT link you posted may be a cover up. That's what lying and cover-ups do, they throw the truth about everything in doubt, and ruin America's credibility.
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
said on 5/30/2006 @ 7:02 pm PT...
I'm just saw Paul Rieckhoff on MSNBC a few minutes ago. He is not blaming the troops involved in the incident without waiting for the investigation. He just said that he has the greatest respect for the Uniform Code of Military Justice and that we all need to wait for the investigation before we go blaming the troops involved. He said that he fully understands the passion when your fellow troops in your unit are attacked and they want to hit back hard, because he was in those situations before. When asked about Rep.Murtha's comments, he said that he has great respect for Rep.Murtha and his service, but that he ALSO needs to wait for the investigation to be concluded. The segment's topic was a discussion on the MSM and if they have already judged the troops involved as guilty. Paul was in agreement on that also.
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
said on 5/30/2006 @ 7:19 pm PT...
The only one of your links there that I bothered to read was the one to the Washington Post. That is a very terrible story indeed. Another thing that Paul Rieckhoff said tonight on MSNBC was that he believes that 99% or even higher of the US troops there are doing their best possible are are honorable in their service. This is a very small number, yet the damage done by them is greater than their numbers. Paul said to wait for the investigation, but if that finds them guilty, then I think they should do serious time at Ft.Levenworth.
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
JUDGE OF JUDGES
said on 5/30/2006 @ 7:21 pm PT...
More bush Trivia . . .
Many kid's blew up frogs . . . . . BUT g. w. specifically stuck the firecracker up their Ass . . . Need I say More ?
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
said on 5/30/2006 @ 8:55 pm PT...
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
said on 5/30/2006 @ 9:42 pm PT...
From Vietnam experience, I would say it is very unlikely that 99% are doing the honorable thing in a dishonorable invasion, but what the hell's the honorable thing anyway? Massacre of civilians in Fallujah using weapons of mass destruction? Those civilians are just as dead. Can we say there was no vengeance involved there? (Bet there was.)
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
said on 5/31/2006 @ 3:30 am PT...
The study of how "holy" a particular war is happens to be an interesting one.
In war lore WW II tends to be seen as the most holy war we have been involved in.
I had always heard that, but never questioned it, until I saw the documentary movie "Fog of War".
It was basically the repentance of Robert McNamara (once sec. of "defense") and his confession to being a "war criminal" (his words) and his naming of others in the Pentagon who he says were also war criminals.
For what they did in WW II, the most holy war.
He said they (including himself) murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent civilian Japanese people based on vengence.
Some of these warrior criminals were still active in the Pentagon when Operation Northwoods was conceived to kill Americans by terrorist acts within the US.
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
said on 5/31/2006 @ 5:04 am PT...
Mike, I don't think anyone here or in the MSM is judging the troops. They are reporting what happened, and you and others are twisting it, saying they are being judged. Reporting a story isn't judging guilt or innocence. That is what rightwingers do. News which rightwingers want suppressed, they call "liberal" or "judging". It's just another strategy in the rightwing arsenal.
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
said on 5/31/2006 @ 5:10 am PT...
I'm telling everyone here, of the rightwing tactics to suppress true, unbiased news they don't like. They say it's "liberal", "judging", or if they don't like the stories of how the Bush administration is f***ing our veterans, they say "let's not be partisan on Memorial Day." They have an excuse to suppress any news story they don't like.
There are 2 main tactics: What I mentioned above, or floating an "alternate truth" in the MSM, to confuse and misinform. And the MSM doesn't call them on it, that is what's wrong with the MSM. They say they're giving "balance" by floating this "alternate truth." An example of this tactic, is Brad's story about WaPo giving "balance" to DIEBOLD, when there are not equal sides of the equation. This is a massively successful tactic, accomplished by decades of rightwing conservatives whining about the "liberal MSM."
Tactic 2 is employed, after tactic 1 doesn't work. They say, "Well, the story isn't being suppressed, it's out there, so let's confuse the public by crying about balance and not floating our un-true story and giving us "balance." WHEN THERE IS NO BALANCE!!!
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
said on 5/31/2006 @ 6:18 am PT...
But I will suggest this: that only soldiers who are fighting on the side of WRONG can do such things.
wow. amazing. is the side then that cuts off the heads of aid workers while they are alive with dull machetes, hangs entrails of slain innocents from bridges, uses women and children as human shirlds in battle, fakes massacres, and sets off explosives in crowded shopping markets killing innocent women and children the side or "right"? yikes. i hope not. weird dudes here; amazing how emotion clouds logicical thought. peace guys. check that kharma.
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
said on 5/31/2006 @ 6:23 am PT...
Afghan wants to put the guys on trial who lost their brakes. This seems to be an accident not nefarious in nature. Tragic, but accidental.
Afghan Lawmakers Speak Out on U.S. Crash
By AMIR SHAH, Associated Press Writer
50 minutes ago
KABUL, Afghanistan - Afghanistan's parliament has approved a motion calling for the government to prosecute the U.S. soldiers responsible for a deadly road crash that sparked the worst riots in Kabul in years, officials said Wednesday.
The assembly passed the nonbinding motion Tuesday, after debating Monday's crash in which a U.S. truck plowed into a line of cars, killing up to five Afghans and sparking citywide, anti-foreigner riots, said Saleh Mohammed Saljuqi, an assistant to the parliamentary speaker.
"Those responsible for the accident on Monday should be handed over to Afghan legal authorities," Saljuqi cited the motion as saying.
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
said on 5/31/2006 @ 6:40 am PT...
Sadly in war "right sides" and "wrong sides" are clouded when the reasons,the objective and projected outcome are undefined. We saw this in Viet Nam and it is repeating again before our eyes. Wars that are poorly planned and implemented breed atrocities on all sides. The horror we are seeing is the result of incompetent leadership on our side and deadly rebellion on their side. Who ever "they" are. Thats the other problem. We do not even know who the enemy is. The president doesn't even know which factions we are fighting. There is no Army to fight -just a lot of different angry factions. This why no one should start a war of choice for no reason and go into it without a cohesive plan. Unfortunately everyone looses.
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
said on 5/31/2006 @ 7:21 am PT...
Oh, man. Michael #7 and Afred #21...
Please refer to Jo-Joy of #23, who understood my point perfectly. I did not say that the soldiers were wrong. They are simply doing a job as best they can while trying to stay alive. They don't get to pick which wars they fight. But in this war, they are on the side of WRONG, not RIGHT. Otherwise, they would not commit such atrocities. (Yes, I am here assuming that the reports are true.)
To paraphrase Rick Blaine, don't bring up Vietnam--it's poor salesmanship. Anyone who still doesn't understand that our soldiers in Vietnam were on the side of WRONG is willfully delusional. Now, if you can show me examples of such grotesque atrocities in the American Revolution, or in WWII, then I will temper or withdraw my original point.
It wasn't an accusation.
COMMENT #25 [Permalink]
said on 5/31/2006 @ 7:58 am PT...
Very interesting point. However, no they are not on the "right" side.
But what you do bring up is the COMPLETE LACK OF MENTION of such things on liberals sites like this one. You will never see such stories here because liberals want to make America look as bad as possible.
Thats why you never see beheading stories and stories of head being cut off, innocents being blown up or any other story that makes the enemy look bad. Conversly, they will post any story that is bad about America in an effort to sway opinion towards the enemy.
Now, liberals will likely respond with clouded mirrors, but I challenge them to link me to such a story on this site? YOU WONT FIND ONE!
ANY STORY! NOT HERE FRIENDS! Making America look bad while ignoring severed heads is what they do here.
Liberals HATE America. They HATE good news about America.
COMMENT #26 [Permalink]
said on 5/31/2006 @ 8:04 am PT...
Thank you for your service to this country. The sacrifce you and your friends made is something that words cannot express appreciation for. While the liberals here would have called you baby killer and the rest.
Just remember that the majority of Americans appreciate your service and can never repay the debt we owe to you.
COMMENT #27 [Permalink]
Old Turk ---- SEND BRAD $$$$$$$$ !!!!!
said on 5/31/2006 @ 8:35 am PT...
COMMENT #28 [Permalink]
said on 5/31/2006 @ 8:37 am PT...
There is a piece on TBRnews.org this week written by a soldier in Iraq. He says massacres have been going on since day one. His email is censored..I guess he is writing from someone else's computer. The soldiers, sometimes have skin conditions which have no cure. Have driping sores. That along with the heat, bad water questionable body armor...being charged for their uniforms now....National Guard troops should never have been sent there. They aren't trained for that. I believe Murtha and I don't like the position our military has been put in.
COMMENT #29 [Permalink]
said on 5/31/2006 @ 8:52 am PT...
damnit.. BRAD! what's with this "greymatter" sensor page? Not being able to post for no good reason sucks..
COMMENT #30 [Permalink]
said on 5/31/2006 @ 9:24 am PT...
You're right, Big Dan. They've yelled, "liberal media" for 30 years and we've let 'em. We've let 'em get away from the old journalistic rules. Report this: Who, What, When, Where, Why & How?
I teach these to all my journalism students.
Remember how TV detectives use to say, "just the facts, ma'am." That goes for reporters, too. They should ask witnesses for "just the facts."
It's the journalists JOB to give us this knowledge. We need to put the pressure on individual journalists to cover important stories that tend to be ignored and covered only in the blogosphere.
"Journalist. DO YOUR JOB."
Paul Waldman says "were all in it together." And he feels that we should use that as our rallying cry. Why are we progressive? How do we define ourselves. Base all our arguments on this line. Remeber it.
WE'RE ALL IN IT TOGETHER!
COMMENT #31 [Permalink]
said on 5/31/2006 @ 10:12 am PT...
Shannon: The MSM should not give a forum to a side that is misinforming...and that is what they do. That is one of the ways the MSM destroyed us, by just simply letting cronies spouting off misleading facts, be on TV. That is what they wanted for decades. Thanks, Shannon, I real believe you understand!
One of the best books I've read on this subject, is "The Repubican Noise Machine" by David Brock. It's actually a scarey read.
That is why I promote Democracy NOW! I know they are not corporate-controlled. The rightwingers with $$$ know that the media is the most powerful thing on earth, and they bided their time since the Nixon era, taking over the media, and calling anything they didn't agree with "liberal media."
Here's the thing, anything they call "liberal media" is actually true, uncensored news that they don't like and it doesn't fit their agenda. THIS is what people mean, by comparing Bush to Hitler. Not the killing the Jews part, the media takeover part. All the great fascists knew the first thing they must do is takeover the media.
They can takeover the corporate-controlled media, but not Democracy NOW! It can't happen. Democracy NOW! does not take corporate or government money. The Republicans tried to takeover PBS, but they could only do this because PBS takes government money. This cannot happen to Democracy NOW!, LINK-TV, or FSTV. They are giving us the truth. And it's way different than what we're seeing on any channels with commercials. If it has commercials, it's no good.
COMMENT #32 [Permalink]
said on 5/31/2006 @ 10:16 am PT...
...and Shannon, it takes time and effort to be a good media critic, and that's what they are banking on. People don't have the time for research and effort. They are used to flicking on CNN. We all must tell everyone we know, every chance we get, to watch Democracy NOW!, LINK-TV, & FSTV. They must really be getting under the skin of the rightwingers, who want only their supposed truth on the airwaves.
COMMENT #33 [Permalink]
said on 5/31/2006 @ 10:22 am PT...
Massacres like these are horrible, but it's hardly surprising after 9/11, Fallujah, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, secret concentration camps, extraordinary renditions and all the other horrible crap the US military and this administration has pulled. I know most of you don't want to believe that americans are capable of doing things like this, but they are just as capable as anyone else and thanks to the warmongering US government americans do it a lot more often then people from most other countries.
To me there is no question about it, the US is fighting on the "wrong" side of this war. Illegaly invading other countries for no good reason, murdering their people, ruining their cities and installing islamic fundamentalist governments can hardly be considered a force for good. The Iraqi people are on the right side in this war, fighting an illegal and immoral occupation.
COMMENT #34 [Permalink]
said on 5/31/2006 @ 10:29 am PT...
Hear Hear, Erik!
I tried posting a very long-winded version of what you just did (greymatter is blocking it.. bah).. yours is much more susinct
Until people like pRicky and AFred and Martin wake up and realize that their supporting this Administration is to support the kinds of acts they call "deplorable" (beheadings, etc), we're not going to get anything fixed. They call facts "conspiracy theories" and denounce those telling truth to corruptions "liberals". It's a kind of sick existence they lead, and until we can convince them to stop fighting change that's for the greater good (as opposed to their personal good at the expense of millions/billions), we're swimming upstream in a very fast river..
COMMENT #35 [Permalink]
said on 5/31/2006 @ 11:20 am PT...
I have been wondering why, out of all the madmen at the helms of government around the world today, the Iranian one has been so vociferous.
I soon realized I was confusing his apparent tactical madness (he was dissing the US and Israel, who everyone thinks can kick his ass in a flash) with his apparent religious madness (he distorts Islam like Pat Robertson distorts Christianity).
Then today I read a blog post from an Iraqi woman in Baghdad, who said:
"We immediately began hearing about the Iranian revolutionary guard, and how they had formed a militia of Iraqis who had defected to Iran during the Iran-Iraq war. We heard how they were already inside of the country and were helping to loot and burn everything from governmental facilities to museums. The Hakims and Badr made their debut, followed by several other clerics with their personal guard and militias, all seeping in from Iran.
Today they rule the country" (link here, bold added). The Iranian woman is our CIA (citizen intelligence agency).
Now it makes more sense. The Iranian trained Iraqi's came in under the radar and set up a government, even while Bremer was there neutralizing the Iraqi military.
This gave Iran the upper hand in some ways it would seem. That is why the two madmen are sticking pins in each other. Madman Bush and madman from Iran are playing an incompetent game of chess with live folk. When they die they are secretly removed from the board (no photos of coffins please) and placed in war worship ground to be used later to catapult the propaganda.
I am wondering if they are playing best out of seven?
COMMENT #36 [Permalink]
said on 5/31/2006 @ 11:58 am PT...
Shedding light is all. My, how the written word can be interpreted and misinterpreted.
My intent on sharing my story was simply to illustrate how good people can do bad things. I wasn't trying to put down the soldiers or argue any "right side, wrong side" issue.
I think if any point was trying to be made, it was simply that when you have an enemy that hides in the shadows of the very people you are "protecting", you can go crazy trying to stay sane.
COMMENT #37 [Permalink]
said on 5/31/2006 @ 12:14 pm PT...
Feel free to show me the link to this blog that proves me wrong. Im so correct it isnt funny. People who love this country dont spend their lives bashing it. Its that simple.
COMMENT #38 [Permalink]
said on 5/31/2006 @ 12:16 pm PT...
Michael, this is not Vietnam where the VC were "across the border" and hiding within the local populations (you'd smile at a woman and she'd blow you up after you passed her.. or women would toss grenade laden babies into choppers).
Granted, there is no "clear" enemy here because our troops are standing in the middle of a Civil War.. but to kill women and children in -this- conflict has no justification. The "women and children" aren't fighting the troops over there (not from anything I've heard). Killing them is murder, they are not combatants and were not armed.
The only comparisons this has to Vietnam, in my understanding, is that telling friend from foe is near impossible, but it's restricted to men. The other issue is too many back to back tours for a lot of these guys, they are getting burned out. Other than that, it would seem that "normal warfare" ideas would apply.. in that you only shoot people who have guns. Killing anyone else WILL lead to MANY mistakes, and unjustified killing of civilians.
Like Vietnam, our best bet is to get OUT. The -vast- majority of Iraqis don't want us there, so we should leave. Duh?
COMMENT #39 [Permalink]
said on 5/31/2006 @ 12:48 pm PT...
I'm keeping quiet on the similarities between Vietnam and Iraq. It creates a whole new distracting argument. Granted, there are some similarities, and many, many differences between the two military actions.
But one thing they both have in common is an enemy that is IN the population of average civilians. We didn't know the good from the bad in Vietnam...and we sure as hell don't know the difference in Iraq it seems.
As for tossing "grenade laden babies into choppers," I think you have maybe been reading some pretty outlandish info. It might have happened, but was never a practice that I witnessed or have ever heard of. There were suicide bombings in Nam, but nothing on the scale of what is going on in Iraq today. (footnote: When Kerry mentioned vets cutting off ears as prizes or tokens...it DID happen. I saw it. You can see it in the movie Platoon in a very suttle part of the film.)
Not sure your comment about ..."where the VC were 'across the border'... ", but the VC I saw and fought didn't cross any borders. They lived in South Vietnam...in towns, villages, homes...just like the other civilians. The NVA (North Vietnamese Army) maybe crossed borders from north to south or from Vietnam to Cambodia...but Vietcong were those "irregulars", similar to what we might well be fighting in Iraq today, that blend in and take up their fight when they chose.
Finally, it was NOT restricted to men in Vietnam at all. I know this for a fact, it involved women as well; and from my readings, I believe the women in Iraq are taking an active part in the struggle as well.
I am NOT suggesting anything justifies killing non-combatants. Nothing justifies MURDER. As for being burned out from tours of duty, I was referring to my own experience, and that was one tour - three months maximum..and I was seeing and experiencing these types of irrational behaviors in just that short time. I can only try to imagine what it would be like to be in a situation like I experienced for more than a year. God help them all!!
Finally, WE soldiers have to come home and blend back in to society. Most of us did that pretty well, depending on your experiences and your mental health before and after. Some, those that went over the edge, came home calloused killers. We get to deal with these men and women in the future, all over again. We read articles in the papers even NOW about returning vets that go bezerk on their family, friends or self. How do you go from killing shamelessly for survival to being someone who respects the value of life?
I've said too much again. I'm beginning to dislike the printed word. It just doesn't make the points, no matter how carefully one words their comments.
COMMENT #40 [Permalink]
said on 5/31/2006 @ 12:57 pm PT...
"liberals will likely respond with clouded mirrors," .. and "Conversly, they will post any story that is bad about America in an effort to sway opinion towards the enemy."
Lemme explain a little about logic and false logic and false correlation.. You want to paint the FALSE picture of "liberals supporting the enemy" because "they show bad things about America". The problem is, those two are not related. The fact that you try to link them shows you as a dishonest person who is trying to invoke emotion instead of reason to support your agenda. You are spewing right-wing talking points from O'Liely and Limpboob without even stopping to think about them. You just believe the bullshit and spit it back out onto others.
Here's a clue for you (since you so badly need one). People who like something that is hurting try to fix it. If someone else sees that the thing is hurting, that has no bearing on what we do while trying to fix our hurting thing. In this case, this COUNTRY is hurting because crooks and criminals and psychopaths are tearing it apart for their own greed and gain. WE are trying to fix it.. it has nothing to do with "the enemy", it has to do with "fixing our own problems". PART of our problem is that we're engaged in an illegal war killing innocent civilians because our leaders (the broke part of America) are incompetent and criminal. It has no bearing on trying to fix this country if "the enemy" knows we're trying to fix our country. You might think it does, but it doesn't. Iraq is not connected to us trying to fix the U.S., and you can't fix a problem unless you acknowledge the problem. "Showing bad things about America" is how you see and discuss the problem, thereby being able to try and fix it.
I agree that you won't see articles here about the terrible things "the enemy is doing", because it's NOT RELAVANT. They can only do them "to us" BECAUSE WE'RE THERE. If we LEAVE, they won't be beheading us, will they? Not to mention, you say "innocents being blown up", but IT WAS US who "blew them up".. so that you don't want here, but you want to bash on the enemy and keep the emotion high and ignore the underlying issues.
I said (and you ignored) that the bulk of this site is about election reform/fraud. When our "elected" leaders are doing henious things, pointing those out only adds fuel to the "fix it" fire.. get it? Iraq and their problems have nothing to do (directly) with our broken electoral system. In fact, the problems in Iraq are BECAUSE of our electoral problem, but don't have a direct effect on it (other than being a motivator to fix it).
There's no point in talking to you wing-nuts. You're as deluded as Zealots. Fact and reason don't matter to you, only fulfilling your need to prove how big and tough you are matters. At the end of the day, your agreesion (forced to be displayed on innocents through others) is a symptom of your own insecurities. You're sad and pathetic, actually. But you are too pridfull to ever try and change and become secure in who you are. But, your failings aren't my problem.. your actions are. Your actions (in supporting Shrubby, discounting and not caring about election fraud and the death of this Democracy) are ruining this country/world for my children. It's for them that I have to fight you, to make sure you can't totally destroy everything in your lashing out because you feel inadequate.
COMMENT #41 [Permalink]
said on 5/31/2006 @ 1:07 pm PT...
Michael, my point was that Nam was a LOT worse than what's going on in Iraq.. I understand that it's a mess in Iraq as well, but that's just another reason to get the hell out. We're in over our heads and now we're stressing our troops to the point of murder. It's sick, and there's no reason for it.
The grenade laden babies comes from stories my mom heard from Vets while she was a counselor at a VA hospital. The point is, Nam was an insane nightmare for the soldiers.. I don't think Iraq is "that bad", yet. But it's clearly starting to get there since the troops are starting to lose it (apparently).
COMMENT #42 [Permalink]
said on 5/31/2006 @ 4:13 pm PT...
"I am troubled by the initial news stories," Bush said.
OMG!! according to our conservative friends here at bradblog, the president is supporting the terrorists. Like us, he is "troubled" by the reports.
COMMENT #43 [Permalink]
said on 5/31/2006 @ 6:35 pm PT...
I didn't have to go to Vietnam because it ended just barely in time, but I've always said it would be impossible to judge those who went through it. I personally think the stories about people here doing that were blown way out of proportion for the political purposes of the war profiteers (some major media included).
Obviously, you WERE there and I greatly appreciate that you were so frank about it. I'm sure your intentions were nothing but honorable!
These soldiers that were involved in this terrible thing are most likely going to be found guilty and have their lives ruined beyond belief! The last thing they need is for any arm chair warriors over here trying to moralize about what they should have done!
Once again, those accountable will not be punished!
COMMENT #44 [Permalink]
said on 6/1/2006 @ 7:19 am PT...
COMMENT #45 [Permalink]
said on 6/2/2006 @ 8:31 am PT...
LET'S REVISIT, ALL THE REPORTERS CLAIMS, THAT THEY WERE TARGETTED BY TROOPS, TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!
COMMENT #46 [Permalink]
said on 6/2/2006 @ 1:20 pm PT...
COMMENT #47 [Permalink]
said on 6/8/2006 @ 6:09 pm PT...
May Mr. Murtha be exposed for the worthess sack of donkey excriment that he is. There is no exuse for his continued rederick. He has accused and convicted our marines without anything further than the accusal of the enemy. He is responsible for them bein in shackles. Mr. Murtha will answer for his actions to a higher power once is bloated passes. In fact, that will be the day that his ingnorance is finally laid to rest. Furthermore, any supporters of this liar and hoax of a man, are no better as they have obviously not even taken the time to check on his record. He is unworthy of the respect of a dung beetle. Those who voted for him need to understand that THEY are responsible for placing this man in office to further bolster the enemy of the US. THEY are responsible for motivating the enemy of the US. THEY are responsible for the death of US soldiers. You too will answer to a power greater than any man can wield someday. I only pray that your ignorance does not destroy our nation prior to that day.
Any Iraqi, Afganistani, Irani, Russian, Frenchman, etc... who is an enemy of the US who hides behind women and children WILL DIE! If a the women and children die as well....I for one will sleep better at nite knowing that some mini-me bin laden is taking a dirt nap. ALL suspected terrorists must die. THey must not be tried, they must not be understood. THEY MUST DIE! LONG LIVE THE USA!
COMMENT #48 [Permalink]
said on 6/8/2006 @ 10:50 pm PT...
And you are in Iraq now?
Do you have a military record like Murtha or do you have a record like Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld?