READER COMMENTS ON
"'Daily Voting News' For June 3, 2006"
(13 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
said on 6/3/2006 @ 6:38 pm PT...
Salt Lake Tribune wakes up after years of slumbering. Great to see!
It pains me to see our papers forced to interview the worst sources in the country. But despite that, we're really starting to win!
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
said on 6/3/2006 @ 10:32 pm PT...
Saying, "Hallelujah" out here in Utah!
Please also note that the 20-year-old alternative free magazine in Utah, The Catalyst, took this story when the Salt Lake Tribune called it a rehash of old news:
Larry, I'm sure you can pick one up in town.
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
said on 6/4/2006 @ 3:37 am PT...
I haven't noticed, in the MSM, any coverage of the Kennedy article printed Friday in Rolling Stone Magazine.
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
said on 6/4/2006 @ 3:44 am PT...
The scandal of the century isn't ever going to ever be "old news"! I'm a little ahead of you Barbara. I put a link to your article in an earlier thread.
I'm sure it's the first article in Utah that connects Abramoff to the voting mess. Great job!
I don't know if we're gonna win in the end, but it sure feels good anyway. I feel vindicated.
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
said on 6/4/2006 @ 5:23 am PT...
Respectfully, your promotion of the Manjoo piece from Salon is puzzling. You might reconsider. It's not so much "news" as part of the targeted media hits and coverups of high quality, thoroughly researched expose`s of the Ohio hijacking, e.g. the RFK, Jr. piece in Rolling Stone, and "Fooled Again". by MCM.
Bradblog readers, if you read the Salon piece but not the For any readers who look at the Salon piece, please read the RFK Jr. piece to innoculate yourself from the spin by Manjoo. Also there is a great interview about Ohio with Jesse Jackson in RS as well.
ROLLING STONE: What was, for you, the first indication that something was gravely amiss in Ohio?
Jesse Jackson: There were no long suburban lines. There were no long rural lines. All these long lines were in the cities or on campuses.
RS: Do you believe that the 2004 election was stolen?
JJ: Ohio was more thievery than in Florida. I was amazed and astonished in Florida and Ohio about Democrats’ unwillingness to fight back, to fight to the hilt. It’s beyond my capacity to comprehend why you should score a touchdown and not fight for your points to be counted.
RS: So you believe that John Kerry was wrong to have conceded?
JJ: Kerry won in Ohio. And Gore won in Florida. And neither was willing to put it all on the line to demand a full and fair count. I cannot explain the gutless factor. I cannot explain this desire to look presidential and not be president. Kerry gave up and wouldn’t come back to Ohio and fight. Gore gave up and wouldn’t come back to Florida and fight. That’s inexplicable to me. They chose order over justice.
RS: I’ve spoken to John Kerry. His argument is that the official margin of Bush’s victory gave his campaign no legal recourse to contest the election.
JJ: It seems that some Democrats’ will to win — even by the rules — is not great enough. Republicans want to win at any cost, by any means. Watergate now seems minor compared to these two elections.
In 2000, we were asked by the Gore campaign to withdraw from fighting. While we were trying to fight, Republican staff members stopped the count in Miami/Dade. Went in like thugs and just — remember that? — just stopped the count.
RS: Should voters be concerned about the November 2006 elections?
JJ: Those who stole in 2000 became more adept in 2004. I expect they will have honed their skills more in 2008. Election reform needs to be the centerpiece of the Democratic agenda.
Dean, Kerry, Gore, Pelosi, Reid!!!!! HEAR OUR CRIES!!!! I will not fight for Democrats unless you FIGHT THE REAL FIGHT!!!!
And don't hide behind the insipid Manjoo style bluster! You MUST make election reform the CENTER of our strategy and FIGHT LIKE THERE IS NO TOMORROW.
Because in the view of these debauched, homicidal, lunatic, Christofascist thugs, there ISN'T!
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
said on 6/4/2006 @ 5:34 am PT...
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
said on 6/4/2006 @ 6:21 am PT...
DEMAND FOREIGN OWNERSHIP
OF ELECTION MACHINES !!!
AND FACTORIES THAT MAKE
OUR WEAPON SYSTEMS
ITS CHEAPER TO BUY AT ONE PLACE
AND I SUPPORT DUBAI'S HANDYMAN STORE (link here)
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
said on 6/4/2006 @ 6:50 am PT...
Quick additional post on the Salon piece....
(And John, I realize you are just trying to cover the whole spectrum of Voting news out there. It's just that the Salon piece is just such a tipical right-wing hit piece I don't think it even rises to the level of journalism. But readers can decide for themselves I guess. But if people read the Manjoo piece they should note that many Salon readers are dumping their subscriptions. Here's a typical follow up letter...
The readers have spoken: No confidence in Manjoo on this subject
I think part of the problem with Manjoo's article is the attitude expressed in a headline that even the article itself does not really support.** Instead of a big headline blaring a certainty ("Was the 2004 election stolen? No"), how about a headline like "Was the 2004 election stolen? We can't be sure."
Manjoo seems to have his mind made up to nitpick RFK Jr's. Rolling Stone article, to poke holes in a fashion that comes across as haughty and dismissive. It's almost as if he takes RFK Jr.'s article as a personal affront to his own previous (ill-drawn) conclusions.
No matter what the editor's confidence in Manjoo may be, the fact that the readers of Salon have no confidence in him at all on this issue should lead them to assign other writers to cover this story. Manjoo simply appears incapable of addressing the issue fairly. His conclusion that we can know that election 2004 was absolutely not stolen is no more supportable than the conclusion of others who say that we know for certain that it was. And besides, the conclsuion drawn by RFK Jr. is not certainty that the election was stolen. The conclusion he draws is this:
The issue of what happened in 2004 is not an academic one. For the second election in a row, the president of the United States was selected not by the uncontested will of the people but under a cloud of dirty tricks. Given the scope of the GOP machinations, we simply cannot be certain that the right man now occupies the Oval Office --- which means, in effect, that we have been deprived of our faith in democracy itself.
In other words, Manjoo has set up a strawman just so he could knock it down. He has lost the confidence of the readers. He should no longer be assigned to this issue.
**Quote: To date, dozens of experts, both independently and as part of several research panels, have spent countless hours examining 2004's presidential election, especially the race in Ohio. Many of them have concluded that the election there strains conventional notions of what a democracy ought to look like; very little about that race was fair, clean or competent. Way back in January 2005, a panel headed by Democratic Rep. John Conyers of Michigan reported that it had found enough irregularities in Ohio to call into question the state election results and the entire presidential vote. A report by the Democratic Party released last year found "evidence of voter confusion, voter suppression, and negligence and incompetence of election officials."
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
said on 6/4/2006 @ 8:35 am PT...
Ginny, Thank you for the comments. My mistake was actually in listing the RollingStone article in the first place. It is really off subject for what "Daily Voting News" is supposed to be about; voting systems, election problems, provisional ballots, voter and election fraud, etc.
So because I allowed myself to wander a bit and do the RollingStone article I made the decision to include the Salon article. Remember that I do not cater to one side of the political spectrum only. The subscriber list to DVN by email includes far-right to far-left and every point in between.
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
said on 6/4/2006 @ 9:56 am PT...
It ain't law until preznit blush says it is a law?
One wonders if he has made any statements of HAVA or any other voting issues.
The American Bar Association has initiated an inquiry into the legality of the president's declaring which part of legislation he signs into law is valid, from his standpoint.
The ABA has indicated it considers the matter serious enough to do something about it:
"Bush has challenged more laws than all previous presidents combined.
The ABA's president, Michael Greco, said in an interview that he proposed the task force because he believes the scope and aggressiveness of Bush's signing statements may raise serious constitutional concerns. He said the ABA, which has more than 400,000 members, has a duty to speak out about such legal issues to the public, the courts, and Congress" (link here).
Hey ... somebody has got to be the congress ...
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
said on 6/4/2006 @ 1:25 pm PT...
The RFKjr article is not about voting/elections?!?!?!?
The bulk of the article is a discussion of the various voter suppression tactics, maneuvers to avoid counting certain ballots (like provisional ballots) and to frustrate any attempts at transparency (the most egregious being the Warren Co lockdown), and methods to avoid an honest recount. And the exit polling is relevant too, because if properly done, it serves as another red flag when something isn't kosher.
The Salon article is relevant as another example of the press trying to hide the fact that most of them are acting as apologists, rather than performing the watchdog function envisioned by the Founders.
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
V. Kurt Bellman
said on 6/5/2006 @ 1:40 pm PT...
Yes, Actually Bush did make a signing statement when signing the HAVA law.
He declared that the deadlines imposed upon him for naming the members of the Election Assistance Commission were an infringement n his executive powers. He then declined to make the appointments in accordance with HAVA's deadlines, and instead made them when he was damned good and ready, thereby setting off an unhelpful compression of th etime available to do anything under HAVA, like MAKE SURE THE DAMNED MACHINES WERE WORTH A CRAP!
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
said on 6/5/2006 @ 3:23 pm PT...
The most massive conspiracy ever tried on US. It ain't working. Past conspiracies like JFK...lone gunmen. 9/11 are just popping up all over the place. They are scared. They are dangerous. The christian right is very unhappy about gas prices, groceries. housing , insurance... Everybody who votes repub. isn't rich. We are winning. Brad, I'm sending you money. You are the lone voice. The Left Coaster, in typical fashion of "progressives" says Check out MYdd. repub lite and Bradblog. They want to speak truth to power. They are chicken shit. You aren't. You have the power 'cause you aren't scared.