There's a race here in Pennsylvania that's also very close but it looks as if there will be no recount because the candidate running doesn't have the money to finance one. It's a state house seat but a recount here might change the equation.

http://newpittsburghcourier.com/?article=15331

I don't know what the deadline is or how much a recount would cost, but it would be interesting to find out.

Philip Shropshire
www.threeriversonline.com

PS: And as always, I would appreciate a link. I'm not Atrios but I think you're right!

Here's the deal.

NASED Addendum dated March 22, 2006 entitled Voting System Memory Card Issues requires: "Throughout the life of the voting system, the election official shall maintain control of all memory cards...stored securely at all times..."

It goes on to say "FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THIS ADDENDUM NEGATES THE VOTING SYSTEM'S STATUS AS A NASED-QUALIFIED VOTING SYSTEM".

So, to follow the logic, the RoV didn't "maintain control...at all times", thus the federal (NASED) qualification is negated, thus the State certification is negated, thus the election was run on equipment deemed unfit due to security violations. I know of no provision in any code allowing for elections to be conducted with non-certified and qualified equipment.

This is almost open and shut - if any court were to see this information, I predict a 99.999% chance of the election being declared invalid and, at the least, a full hand count required. However, you can never tell what a "non-liberal" judge might decide - maybe that it is too inconvenient to be sure it is done right, just so long as it is done (as in "over with").

And all this "liberal"-bashing??? What an effort to distract us from the task at hand - stopping the machines. Stop the morons by ignoring them and just focusing on what has to be done for an open, honest and transparent election process. Those in power never want change - why would they? And they will do everything in their power to keep it. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely!

Post script: In Riverside County, CA, the RoV admitted to loosing 17 memory cartridges between the closing of the polls and the arrival of the cartridges at the central office. I guess you could say she didn't "maintain control of all memory cards". Hmmm. Do over??

"no one turned away!"???

Brad, i think you may underestimate your readership and influence. If happens what i hope and think that happens these places better be BIG or you have some way of transmiting the events onto bigscreens outside...

Anyway: best wishes from me, heat them up!

Martin

Nice flier.

Wish I could be there to cheer you guys on!

Good work, guys. I hope you get huge turnouts.

Great work Brad! Have to turn up the heat on these vote rigging, hackable, evoting now! Not in Nov. Hope you have a town meeting in the SF bay area, Sacramento or the central valley (Stockton, heart of Pombo country).

Excellent! Keep the heat on and keep turning the thermostat up...it's the only way to solve this critical problem. I'll be rooting for you, California!!

Gee, California Dreamin' - Your post wasn't there when I sent mine. Do you s'pose people's brain waves are beginning to mesh or what? Talk about being on the same wavelength...!

Click here for the inspiring finale of Mark Crispin Miller's fantastic speech in Oakland on his "Fooled Again" book tour (May '06)

For the full CD, send your snail address to me at info at OregonVRC dot org. Includes Q&A and also an interview of Ion Sancho by Laura Flanders. I'll also send you a great CD by Thom Hartmann & Paul Lehto on the privatization of elections.

The truth will out.

It is hard to find good public places here in San Diego where you can post such notices. An idea just occured to me though of where to put these posters to get maximual inpact. Those of you going to the theaters, either to see Inconvenient Truth, or at a multiplex where you have access to the doors where Inconvenient Truth is playing. Put these posters on or near the doors as people leave the theater. I'm guessing that for this flick, you won't offend anyone that's seeing it, and it would be a good target audience to appeal to who might not have access to Brad's Blog or the web. Even if the theater personnel take it down afterwards, if you get a few people on their way out seeing it to come, it will have been worthwhile.

Grocery stores, telephone polls, laundromats, coffee houses, night clubs, school campuses, churches, handing them out in the business district/s, Rotary, Lions, ERs, any medical clinics, Social Services offices, calling local publications, union halls (offices)....

This should be great ... I might even have to fly out from FLA to see what all 15 people have to say.

Give it up and quit wasting your time.

lol...

Post attempt number two (in case the first attempt finally shows up!):

calipendence #11-

Great suggestion for a location for placing the posters. Speaking of "An Inconvenient Truth", I just returned from a book signing today in LA for the book version of An Inconvenient Truth. People weren't allowed to linger but I shook hands with Al Gore there and handed him a note (addressed to President Al Gore) and told him it was about the disputed CA-50 special election to replace Randy "Duke" Cunningham. I asked him to please read it when he had a minute after the signing. He said he would and took it and handed it to an assistant. In the note I briefly detailed the dispute, the growing call for a full hand recount and asked him to put his voice behind the recall and to go to www.velvetrevolution.us to sign the petition and to www.Bradblog.com to get more details. We'll see if anything happens.

Outside the bookstore where the signing took place the DNC had people walking the long line (several hundred 30 minutes before the start of signing) offering to register people and asking people to "help" (donate to) the DNC and the Democratic Party so it can retake the House and Senate in the upcoming midterms. I told the young lady who came up to me that I would "help" the DNC/Democratic Party when it/they started helping the American people again. I asked her if she was familiar with the CA-50 election controversy and the general concerns about the unreliability/hackability of the electronic voting machines that were increasingly becoming the way people were being forced to vote. She was unfamiliar with the CA-50 controversy but said she had heard that there was increasing concern about the voting machines among the populace. I told her that this "concern" should be the #1 concern of the DNC and all parties and people interested in preserving our democracy because none of the other issues matter if we can't be confident that our votes are being counted accurately (or even counted) and that we can vote into office the people that will champion our views and issues. She was pretty happy to move past me along the line but, before doing so, she did take down the web address for www.velvetrevolution.us and for www.Bradblog.com and said she'd look into it and try to promote it within her circle. Again, we'll see what happens (not holding my breath on this one).

I'll also welcome comment #6 from the great Winter Patriot whom all BradBloggers who started following this blog before the beginning of this year will remember as an incredibly important guest contributor, commenter and kind of concierge for this blog (and his own "late and lamented" websites) until the duties and pressures of life took him away (hopefully, temporarily). Your thoughts and comments are always welcomed, my friend.

Steve, #14

THANK YOU! I love what you did.

I would so love to be able to address him as President Gore, and I love that you did.

#13 F. Dave

I didn't think you really lived in Florida.

I thought you were from hell.

That's where your life is headed anyway.

What was that pesky 9th Commandment?

RE: an Event in Sacramento. Talked on air with Christine Craft about this. She said she'd be all over it and happy to help get one together. Give her a call! I'll feed my car some more gas and will get up there for it if anybody can help up there!

As close as possible to Bruce McPherson's office please.

(Feel free to help pay for some BRAD gas for all of these travels and travails with a tip for your humble host. Haven't had any time to bang that drum lately, and it's been fairly quiet in that regard over the last few weeks. Any help always appreciated!)

Charlene - Don't feed the trolls. It just makes them feel they're growing stronger. As they might otherwise continue to waste away into utter irrelevance.

Washington,DC, hushed conversations were overheard in various places that went something like this: "You know that Bilbray winning shouldn't be taken as a piece of cake, he just barely got 50%." Fear IS spelled e-l-e-c-t-i-o-n F-R-A-U-D in this case, because Bilbray actually lost.

For Martin from Germany: I can't imagine anything better to attract publicity than to have an overflow crowd filling the parking lot and nearby streets.

Great job. I'm a voter in CA 50 so this issue is near and dear to me. As a TRUE Republican, and a career Naval Officer who's sworn to uphold the Constitution I know that free and fair elections are a fundamental right. Any impropriety should be fully investigated. This is not Guatamela, it's the United States of America

Gottheledout #20

You get it.

Note that we are also calling for a hand count in Tarrant County, Texas, where the machines recorded 100,000 votes more than there were voters, and the candidate concerned enough to want a hand count is a republican.

The hand count solution is also the correct thing to do in CA-50 where chain of custody laws were violated which rendered the election void of NASED certification.

Party affiliation has nothing to do with whether or not the elections should be held in a manner which satisfies the very reasonable public demand for valid elections.

We do not need to discuss fraud, we only need to discuss democracy's need for true, fair, open, and otherwise American elections which build confidence and pride in our systems.

If we are out threating the world, invading nations, and spreading our "democracy" in the world ... when back at home we can't satisfy folks with sufficient confidence that elections are bona fide, then semper fi is just another word for propaganda.

It is looking more and more like Clint Curtis is/was a visionary.

He was a life-long republican who, upon being exposed personally to republican attempts to throw elections by using electronic voting machines, became a democrat.

Other long time republicans are also jumping ship in neoCon strongholds (link here), and are changing from the republican party to the democratic party.

This could be a trend that neutralizes the cheating impact of gerrymandering which has threatened American democracy.

Clint Curtis is the new American Politician who has the honesty and integrity of the best of the old school. And his fellow republicans who have not lost their intellectual honesty are taking note.

Nothing less than democracy is the motto of non-partisan Americana.

#22
Dredd,
I was just about to post a link to that same story...
Ah...more proof that great minds think alike

ATTN: All Trolls in Calif.

I will be flying in to infiltrate the meeting San Diego. Anyone who is interested in going and seeing just what "Nutjobs" these liberals are, meet me at the IN-N-OUT Burger in Oceanside at 5pm. The address is 4605 Frazee.

I will be in a black Cadillac (rental) and I will have on khaki shorts and white polo with the Univ. of Miami logo on it. We will throw down a "double double" and then off the freak show.

This is going to be great. See you at IN-N-OUT in Oceanside.

gottheledout #20

How refreshing to hear from a Republican who understands and values the integrety of the vote. Thank you for your comment. It's a refreshing contrast to fools like Florida Dave who can't see beyond the nose on their face!

Brad

Hope you can make it to Sacrameto - bring your ice packs!

Interesting piece in today's New York Times about Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., on the theme of "taking on new and dangerous challenges," including the 2004 election.

The article was "balanced," in that it quoted a G.O.P. spokesperson who said this was all debunked two years ago, and Mr. Maloof somebody-or-other (no credentials cited) who said R.F.K., Jr. left out some important stuff.

What was really interesting was that John Kerry said he could find no fault with the validity of the article (my paraphrase), and Chris Dodd said the article was "compelling." This is the same Chris Dodd who said he had looked into allegations of fraud and found "nothing there." The same Chris Dodd who got angry at Kerry for saying to him, "You know, Chris, there's a problem with these machines." Of course, all that was when Dodd's pet NAVA legislation was being threatened by revelations about election machines... about which Chris was then, and remains, in denial.

Like Alice in Wonderland...curiouser and curiouser.

While I applaud the flier, there are several major problems with it.

1) Town Hall meeting. Who knows what a 'Town Hall' meeting is? Why is that obscure phrase the headline of a flier organizing to fight vote-fraud?

It ought to say, Important Meeting, or Public Meeting, or All Invited, or something more direct.

2) "Election violations...special election." No one in LA, bar a few, will have any idea where the 50th district is, who Bilbray or Busby is, or why it applies to them.

It should say something like:

Organize to fight California Vote-Fraud!
Election violations during Last Month's Primary Election
(Did what happened in San Diego Affect You?)

3) 'Nothing less than Democracy' as a slogan isn't bad, but it is a sentence fragment, that should say:

What's At Stake?
Nothing less than democracy!

wow, if only florida dave would take all that time, energy, and piss n' vinegar and do some good with it for a change...

like Gottheledout #20. Thank you for your service, sir.

Comment #1. I've been saying that on deaf ears. I believe primaries are hacked, too. Even Dem primaries. Dean was way ahead of the field, and Kerry came from nowhere. The bottom line is, for me, there's "no confidence" in ANY elections with e-vote machines! May the person who got the most votes, win. Republican OR Democrat OR 3rd party. But, there is "no confidence" in ANY elections, with e-vote machines. We're seeing it, like Brad said, the "train wreck" is on course. Imagine how it's going to be in November, when the stakes are higher!!!

Some of you republicans and independant voters might want to visit my web site, and see why this republican is voting progressive democrat.

Corrected website

Maybe this time it works ?
oh puters!!!

BVAC mentioned a few articles back, about Republican "challenges". There were 3 million Republican "challenges". That's why the Republican-led Congress delayed the renewal of the Voting Right's Act. And it sets up what's in store for 2008: millions more Repubican challenges against blacks and other minorities...This article was lined to by a conservative site, btw...

http://www.rense.com/general72/voting.htm

Just like reasonable doubt in a jury trial, no one can prove beyond all doubt that an election is without fraud. Paper ballots can be changed; boxes can be stuffed like the democrats did in Chicago in the past. You have elected officials that run elections at local levels. That is why there is no national voter registration cards, they are run by local folks. Can you imagine the amount of coordinated effort it would have taken to make that many folks agree to fix an election? Someone would have spilled the beans, brought in Dateline and caught them. What you are saying here is that all those local folks are ether corrupt or they are too stupid to conduct an election. No matter how you try you can never remove the suspicion that follows elections, the problem is with you guys thinking every time you lose the election must be fixed. Have you ever thought that maybe no one likes your ideas, by the way can anyone here name one? Please keep it up so the world can see that the only position you have, is the other guys are crooks, liars, and cheats. But remember those how never trust can never be trusted.

I don't think democrats "get it" when it comes to illegals. As a strong democrat, when I saw this woman on the news asking for illegals to help in her campaign I knew then and there she had lost. I would have voted for the other guy myself. I hope we don't lose other important races because of this issue. I want illegals gone from this country and I'm not the only democrat that feels that way.

HCOCDR: Do you even bother to read this blog? There are a whole bunch of people all over the country who are in trouble for this stuff now, and it has been shown over and over and over that it doesn't take any coordinated effort at the local level to fix an election. Nobody is denying that some elections were rigged in the past. The problem is how to prevent them on such a massive scale, going forward into the 21st Century. People are DYING, hundreds of thousands DEAD, behind this stuff now. It isn't a partisan thing anymore. It's an international matter of life and death. Time to drop the in-fighting and stop the harm.

Joannie: What woman, on what news, with what "illegals"? If you saw a woman candidate on tv asking Hispanic people to help with her campaign, what in the world is wrong with that? I'm against illegal immigration, too, but we have a lot of Hispanic American Citizens.

And, more importantly, voting for someone because of ONE hot button issue is letting ourselves in for officials who do us dirt on all the other ones. Is it worth it? No. It is not.

Agent 99, I believe that Joanne is referring to the "speako" (a verbal typo) made by Busby in the week before the election when she said that: "You don't need papers to vote for me" when she meant to say that you didn't have to be a U.S. Citizen with voting rights to work on a candidate's campaign.

Fact is, people say stupid things all the time, but it seems when the Republicans say something stupid (or, even illegal, as Ann Coulter has done) they make a joke about it and then move on, while when a Democrat says something stupid, it becomes a repetative sound-bite played over-and-over 24/7 for the next week on every single station and cable outlet. Just the same old "liberal media bias" at work, I guess.

If they did this with the stupid things Bush has said, they would never cover anything else again, because he has said so many inane and stupid things they would have been backed up for ten years giving each one a full week in the media spin machine.

Paul in LA - You are, of course, welcome to create your own flier. The more the merrier. If we had the billions in tax-payer dollars that Diebold does, I'm sure we could afford think-tanks and PR firms to come up with better stuff. Though if you make such a flier, please don't refer inaccurately to "Voter Fraud" since as far as I can tell, the voters are doing fine. It's those who administer the Elections and are allowing for ELECTION Fraud that are the problem.

HCOCDR - I hope you enjoy your short return here. In case you haven't noticed, the head of CA SoS Bruce McPherson's own Voting Systems Tech. Advisory Board, David Jefferson of Livermore Labs, who wrote McP's security mitigation procedures that were ignored, told PBS News Hour last week:

DAVID JEFFERSON, Computer Scientist: What Mr. Hursti discovered in Utah is the most serious vulnerability that we've ever seen in a voting system. This particular vulnerability is serious enough that you can affect multiple machines from a single attack. That's what makes it so dangerous.

In other words. It takes just one person to potentially game an entire election.

Please go back to your pretend mission in defending democracy in Iraq, since you're clearly not interested in doing so back in your own homeland.

Joanne #36

What Busby said in reponse to a question from a spanish speaking person was:

“Everybody can help, yeah, absolutely, you can all help. You don't need papers for voting, you don't need to be a registered voter to help.”

"you don't need to be a registered voter to help." Was the meaning of her reply.

The Republican spin machine spread: "You don't need papers for voting" out of context claiming she was incouraging illegal aliens to vote.

Her opponent Bilbray proclaimed: “She's soliciting illegal aliens to campaign for her and it's on tape – this isn't exactly what you call the pinnacle of ethical campaign strategy,”

Link

Hey Charlie L

I guess you're a faster typist!

Thanks for clearing that up for me guys. I'm about as far away from that race as you can get and still be in California. I had no idea what she was talking about.

I sure hope people think about that hot-button issue voting problem I mentioned. I don't think we often enough remember that these people get the power to make or break our whole lives when we elect them. It will still be a problem when we have overcome the election fraud problems. Even when every vote is counted properly, if Democrats have voted for Republicans because they want all the undocumented aliens out: first, it isn't going to happen anyway; and second, none of the social programs and progressive policies they want to see will either.

Brad: "You are, of course, welcome to create your own flier."

This was meant as constructive advice for future fliers, of which I have indeed made a few.

"The more the merrier. If we had the billions in tax-payer dollars that Diebold does, I'm sure we could afford think-tanks and PR firms to come up with better stuff."

Gee, that must be why I haven't received my check for protesting twice a week for five years, eh? The whole damn thing is pro bono.

But, anyhow, I offered you suggestions for future fliers, which I believe would improve the function, which is after all the point.

"Though if you make such a flier, please don't refer inaccurately to "Voter Fraud"

Please don't? Please didn't.

But since you mention it, there is a thirty minute show on LinkTV, Got Democracy?, which is listed in the DirectTv (now owned by Murdoch) guide as "(2006) Voters fraud. Special"

I'm fairly sure that Link wouldn't have listed it with this rightwing buzzword phrase, so probably this is evidence of Murdoch fiddling the text to spread the meme. If anyone knows someone at Link, it would be worth asking them.

Murdoch's DirectTv is rightwingifying at an amazing rate. And have you seen the History Channel's propaganda lately? Wow, the last year or two of their shows have got to be put in a time capsule. Preferably with Murdoch and GFH Bush inside, and sealed up nice and tight.

Charlie L. #39 - You're so right. If the Dems had chosen to go after Bilbray with similar inuendo based issues, they'd have drummed into people's heads that Bilbray was a part of the Abramoff scandal when he had a trip paid for he and his wife to the infamous Marianas Islands. He still very likey might be involved with that scandal, but it appears that only Republicans campaign repeatedly on inuendo, whereas Dems wait for more Cunningham style evidence. It will be interesting to see how Bilbray votes if a bill another congressman is pushing to get to the floor soon on the rights of workers in the Marianas Islands is brougt to the house floor. Given his history, he'll be having a hard time justifying voting either way on that one.

Back to the real issue on this thread tough, and that is voting integrity. Another place to take these posters this week is if you are going this week to a showing of Greenwald's "The Big Buy" screenings. A sign posted there and/or announcement would be a good thing.

Here's a few in San Diego area on Tuesday night:

he Unitarian Universalist Church
Black Mountain Dems Club
Dave & Ann Zegler

Brad,
People working with you on the town hall meeting are saying that the focus is changing and that they think it is a better strategy to go for accountability (i.e. jail, theoretically) for the responsible person, instead of going for a hand count. I think the genius behind this movement you have started is exactly creating a precedent of government sponsored manual counts of the votes whenever there is any question. I really think it would be a waste to go after the "accountability issue" instead of going for a hand count. Because, the bottom line is that even if all custody were perfectly taken care of, we still could not trust the results. And what we need for november is to get the real votes of the people counted. I hope you have not changed your mind. Whether or not lawyers do other things as well, I really think the call for hand counts and checking of all elections without the going through the recount rigamarole should not be dropped in the name of anything else. And we can find citizens willing to count without a doubt.

{ED NOTE: Comment deleted. Sad attempt at disinformation removed.}

I have been trying to post this on Huffpo but they wont, maybe you will. And I will attend that town hall meeting in Oceanside. I will also post this at my site. Thanks, Zenseeker@zenwire.com

Hello Mr. Chopra, living in San Diego, I have read your books and your writings are not as balanced and harmonious as you might think, but overall well-meaning and thought provoking; but on this occasion, in regards to your remarks about “Vietnamese”, I have to respond and to also clarify about the “Vietnam war” in general as posted at my website http://zenwire.com that I designed for people to vote for the truthiest news.

You said:
“If I had been invited to Camp David with Mr. Bush, I would have given my invitation to former Defense Secretary Robert S. McNamara, the architect of the war in Vietnam. What doomed us in that conflict, Mr. McNamara now believes, is that we knew almost nothing about our enemy, the North Vietnamese.
We didn't know how they thought or what they wanted. The whole enterprise of the war was wrapped up in a monolithic idea - "defeating Communism around the world" - just as the present war is wrapped up in defeating global terrorism. Nobody looked closer and tried to understand the people on the other side.”

I was born in Saigon in 1965, and when my Vietnamese parents fled the country on April 20th, 1975 and brought our entire family here, first to Camp Pendleton then to San Diego, and ever since, I have seen America, my country, changed and realized for the worse, right before my eyes. The idealism and foundation that I was taught and aspire to since elementary through UCSD is no longer clear or absolute as I once thought or held dear. Even the very question and nature about the “Vietnam war” and what it was all about is being re-written and redefined as we speak. This is why I want to clarify this issue with you in regards to your comments quoting McNamara’s about the “Vietnamese” and them being “our enemy”. It is this overall perception and casual categorization of the term “our enemy” that I want to clarify and specify before it gets muted and muddied. Who won, who lost, who could have won is being re-drawn and reshaped as if history is a piece of clay for the architects of power to playfully sculpt in a contest to see who can artistically express their specific vision of reality first, given four plus years. This, of course is totally and at the core: American, the pursuit and realization of your specific dream, any and all your dreams if you want, at any costs, if only you have enough will. It all comes down to will power! Ki! For as Napoleon Hill so aptly puts it: “thoughts are things”, and it does not matter how selfish those thoughts can be either, or how perverted or how one sided, it does not matter, you should not constrain yourself by holding back your deepest desires; if you can dream it, you can realize it, the grander the better, the more people it affects and governs, the more territory it encompasses it, more power, points and fame to you.

Back to Vietnam, if anyone of us would take just a few minutes and google and do a little conscientious research about the “Vietnam war”, you would quickly find out that the war was manufactured and that the Vietnamese never attacked us first. They never tried to invade us, or steal our oil or fly planes into us. They never had a religion or a God that was better or came before our God or had multiple Gods. They just wanted to be free: from the Chinese, the Japanese, and from the French… and from us! Just like we all want to be free.
Barbara Tuchman puts it best:
“Americans were always talking about freedom from Communism, whereas the freedom that the mass of Vietnamese wanted was freedom from their exploiters, both French and indigenous. The assumption that humanity at large shared the democratic Western idea of freedom was an American delusion. "The freedom we cherish and defend in Europe," stated President Eisenhower on taking office, "is no different than the freedom that is imperiled in Asia." He was mistaken. Humanity may have common ground, but needs and aspirations vary according to circumstances.”
And as Arthur Silber describe the likely sourse and origin of this pervading attitude:
“Western civilization, more particularly the United States, constitutes the highest point of possible human development. It is only "freedom" and "democracy" as practiced in the West that can guarantee a future of peace. (Never mind the West's uninterrupted history of warfare within its own ranks, and never mind the West's unending, centuries-long interference with the rest of the world.) The West has the answer to successful human life. Since it does, and because certain elements in the rest of the world have now chosen to attack us on our own ground (and never mind that we have invaded and ruled over vast portions of the rest of the world since time immemorial), we must enlighten those benighted portions of the globe in our defense. Our chosen method of enlightenment is brute military force, to be deployed even against countries that did not threaten us. The lack of a genuine threat is no argument against spreading our version of "civilization," for our mission is grounded not only in self-defense: it is also a moral mission. Our success and our "peace" directly correlates to our virtue. Those countries and those civilizations that do not enjoy the same success and peace are without virtue. In the most extreme (and, one could argue, most consistent) version of this tale, non-Western parts of the world are less than human --- and they are subhuman by choice. They are immoral, and sometimes even evil. Since we represent the good and they represent the evil, we are surely entitled to improve them, by invasion and bombing if necessary. If they do not threaten us today, they might at some indeterminate time in the future. And while we might kill many innocent civilians in our campaign of civilization, those who survive will be infinitely better off than they would have been otherwise. Besides, how "innocent" can any of them be --- since they are members of inferior, less than fully human civilizations, and since they are so by choice?” Arthur Silber goes on to say:
“It is this belief, together with the entire Western perspective to which it is connected, that was imperiled by our ignominious defeat in Vietnam. And it is the same belief and perspective that is now so threatened by the Iraq catastrophe.
You can see the desperation the hawks experience when facing this challenge to their worldview in any number of articles. As just one example, consider my examination of a Mark Steyn column from a few years ago, in an essay entitled, "They Are the Damned." In his profoundly dishonest attack on John Kerry, Steyn gives away his much deeper concern right here: "The only relevant lesson from Vietnam is this: then, as now, it was not possible for the enemy to achieve military victory over the US; their only hope was that America would, in effect, defeat itself." He the continues:
” Steyn and many other hawks thus try to shift the blame for failure entirely onto those who criticized or even questioned our involvement in Vietnam. In this view, failure cannot possibly be the result of a basic error in our own actions and policies: the fault must lie with those who dare to question the innate superiority of America, and those who suggest that we are not preordained to remake the world in our image. In this way, the hawks' belief that the West and America in particular embody the culminating point of human history remains intact. Put it another way: no other country and no one else at all can ever defeat the United States. Only we can defeat ourselves --- which is precisely what Steyn himself says. It should be obvious how this leads into a messianic conception of the United States' role in human affairs: we are gods on earth --- or at least God's representatives on earth --- here to bring enlightenment to the inferior cultures and peoples who surround us. This conception of ourselves is not only dangerously wrong, but dangerously destructive and brutal: if we and only we have the key to humanity's future, then what are the deaths of tens or hundreds of thousands of inferior people --- or even the deaths of millions? If the world is to be saved, no price is too great and no pile of corpses, no matter how high, should deter us from our mission…Like Kennedy, Johnson believed that to lose South Vietnam would be to lose the White House. It would mean a destructive debate, he was later to say, that would "shatter my Presidency, kill my Administration, and damage our democracy." The loss of China, he said, which had led to the rise of Joe McCarthy, was "chickenshit compared with what might happen if we lost Vietnam." Robert Kennedy would be out in front telling everyone that "I was a coward, an unmanly man, a man without a spine." Worse, as soon as United States weakness was perceived by Moscow and Peking, they would move to "expand their control over the vacuum of power we would leave behind us ... and so would begin World War III." He was as sure of this "as nearly as anyone can be certain of anything." No one is so sure of his premises as the man who knows too little.

The purpose of the war was not gain or national defense. It would have been a simpler matter had it been either, for it is easier to finish a war by conquest of territory or by destruction of the enemy's forces and resources than it is to establish a principle by superior force and call it victory. America's purpose was to demonstrate her intent and her capacity to stop Communism in a framework of preserving an artificially created, inadequately motivated and not very viable state. The nature of the society we were upholding was an inherent flaw in the case, and despite all efforts at "nation-building," it did not essentially change.

In the illusion of omnipotence, American policy-makers took it for granted that on a given aim, especially in Asia, American will could be made to prevail.This assumption came from the can-do character of a self-created nation and from the sense of competence and superpower derived from World War II. If this was "arrogance of power," in Senator Fulbright's phrase, it was not so much the fatal hubris and over-extension that defeated Athens and Napoleon, and in the 20th century Germany and Japan, as it was failure to understand that problems and conflicts exist among other peoples that are not soluble by the application of American force or American techniques or even American goodwill. "Nation-building" was the most presumptuous of the illusions. Settlers of the North American continent had built a nation from Plymouth Rock to Valley Forge to the fulfilled frontier, yet failed to learn from their success that elsewhere, too, only the inhabitants can make the process work.

Wooden-headedness, the "Don't-confuse-me-with-the-facts" habit, is a universal folly never more conspicuous than at upper levels of Washington with respect to Vietnam. Its grossest fault was underestimation of North Vietnam's commitment to its goal. Enemy motivation was a missing element in American calculations, and Washington could therefore ignore all the evidence of nationalist fervor and of the passion for independence which as early as 1945 Hanoi had declared "no human force can any longer restrain." Washington could ignore General Leclerc's prediction that conquest would take half a million men and "Even then it could not be done." It could ignore the demonstration of elan and capacity that won victory over a French army with modern weapons at Dien Bien Phu, and all the continuing evidence thereafter.

American refusal to take the enemy's grim will and capacity into account has been explained by those responsible on the ground of ignorance of Vietnam's history, traditions and national character: there were "no experts available," in the words of one high-ranking official. But the longevity of Vietnamese resistance to foreign rule could have been learned from any history book on Indochina. Attentive consultation with French administrators whose official lives had been spent in Vietnam would have made up for the lack of American expertise. Even superficial American acquaintance with the area, when it began to supply reports, provided creditable information. Not ignorance, but refusal to credit the evidence and, more fundamentally, refusal to grant stature and fixed purpose to a "fourth-rate" Asiatic country were the determining factors, much as in the case of the British attitude toward the American colonies. The irony of history is inexorable.
...
Persistence in error is the problem. Practitioners of government continue down the wrong road as if in thrall to some Merlin with magic power to direct their steps. There are Merlins in early literature to explain human aberration, but freedom of choice does exist--unless we accept the Freudian unconscious as the new Merlin. Rulers will justify a bad or wrong decision on the ground, as a historian and partisan wrote of John F. Kennedy, that "He had no choice," but no matter how equal two alternatives may appear, there is always freedom of choice to change or desist from a counter-productive course if the policy-maker has the moral courage to exercise it. He is not a fated creature blown by the whims of Homeric gods. Yet to recognize error, to cut losses, to alter course, is the most repugnant option in government…For a chief of state, admitting error is almost out of the question. The American misfortune in the Vietnam period was to have had Presidents who lacked the self-confidence for the grand withdrawal. We come back again to Burke: "Magnanimity in politics is not seldom the truest wisdom, and a great Empire and little minds go ill together." The test comes in recognizing when persistence in error has become self-damaging. For our political leaders, in terms of the methodology they bring to bear on questions of foreign policy, it is as if the United States is a country without a history. In this respect, they are like the most dangerous of nihilist revolutionaries: they believe they can make the entire world anew, writing on a blank slate. But when you completely disregard the realities of history and culture, when you set aside facts and the complexities of men and the societies they create, you will achieve only what such revolutionaries have always achieved: destruction. Tragically for all of us, and for the world, they have failed to learn that lesson as well.” As Arthur Silber so eloquently concludes.

For me, being American and Vietnamese, it took a long time to even begin the process of understanding who won and who lost, black or white, right or wrong, for I can see it from both sides and had to come to terms with it both. And when I did finally figured it out, I realize, in actuallity, there was no winners…no one can win in such a war. 3 millions Vietnamese dead and 55,000+ drafted dead, not even counting the wounded and deformed and scarred for life. There was no winners here. How can there be? You can only win or lose if you have something to gain…, either in material, physical or mental form. So if you feel like you have to win or feel like winning, in such a calamity, then it reveals how elastic your moral compass can be. On memorial days, we all mourn for the people we love, we miss their presense, their thoughts, ideas and imperfections….

That being said, we should all call the “Vietnam War” for what it really was and is. A mistake! A selfish action gone wrong. A busted flush draw! Played and gambled with peoples lives and kids, and for what? For someone’s specific vision of their reality that they are trying to realize. For the record books?

We never cut and ran from Vietnam. We did our best to kill 3 million of them and they kept on coming. We tried to leave sooner, if only we did not have to worry what our neighbors might say! We stopped because we could not unwontingly kill, maim and torture any longer. We stopped because our consciense finally got the better of us. We stopped because we finally had the courage to own up to our mistake and admit we were wrong.

If you are on a police raid and you busted in the wrong house and killed half the occupants and then realized it was the wrong house, do you stop and back out and admit you made a mistake, or do you think it is better just to kill the rest of the family and burn down the damn house and cover it up, leaving no evidence or witnesses. Using that logic, if we stayed in Vietnam, and killed another 3 million or so, then use nukes to kill the other 50 million that are left (mostly women, children and elders), and then we would have won that war and own a radioactive piece of real estate that is completely devoid of life. Was it worth it?

Finally, we should be sorry for our actions. We don’t have to apolozige to the Vietnamese or be formal about it. Their government is just as corrupt if not more! But the sooner we are sorry for the Vietnam war, then the sooner we will see the Iraq war for what it is. Another mistake! And if we can do this before 3 million more lives are lost, then we should consider that a collective improvement on our part, because this time, we did learn from history and finally had the guts to own up and did what was right when only 10,000 lives were lost. We are all human beings, regardless of our color or religion.

For AA: You aren't going to change many minds here by calling Brad Friedman an asshole. But I'm curious about who these Democratic leaders are that you refer to who think Brad's a disinfo charlatan, and why you'd expect them to carry weight with California voters.

Barbara Boxer? She's the only Senator who challenged recognition of the 2004 election, which has been Brad's main thrust all along.

Debra Bowen? She just won a landslide victory in a primary for Secretary of State on a platform of cleaning up electronic voting.

Jeeni Criscenzo? Running for Congress in "Enron By the Sea" on a similar platform.

Maybe you're referring to Gray Davis or Jerry Brown. I guess they're part of the Democratic leadership.

Mr. Mills: There ARE NO Dems calling Brad a misinfo charlatan. Just rightwing misinformation.

The greatest fascist regimes in history, knew that propoganda is more powerful than the military.

-- NOTE: This item set to 'Stay-on-Top'. --
-- Scroll down below it for latest BRAD BLOG items! ---
TOTALLY ILLEGIBLE ON MY SCREEN!

J Kenneth Blackwell also has served on the boards of directors of the International Republican Institute
link
I'm telling ya, there's some fishy about that outfit

#47 AA,
No no, my dear...you have it wrong. Brad an asshole? I believe you have our esteemed Mr. Friedman mixed up with THESE fine people:

link here

Floridiot #53

I am still reeling from a report Larry Bergan linked to in another thread. That report, from 1988, says:

4.13 Summary Of Problem Types

4.13.1 Insufficient Pre-election Testing
4.13.2 Failure to Implement an Adequate Audit Trail
4.13.3 Failure to Provide for a Partial Manual Recount
4.13.4 Inadequate Ballots or Ballot-Reader Operation
4.13.5 Inadequate Security and Management Control
4.13.6 Inadequate Contingency Planning
4.13.7 Inadequate System Acceptance Procedures

(link here, to 1988 official report).

The sickening bottom line is that the generation of electronic election machine protesters who preceeded us fully and completely warned the local and national election war lords of the dangers.

Floridiot, that 1988 report happened just before the republicans began to come into power, and as their power grew so did the spread of defective machines produced by republican corporations.

I think you have it correct Floridiot, the IRI is instrumental in the current state of affairs which gave birth to the republican dictatorship. Their objective seems to have been access to the public treasury (link here).

Brad

At the townhall meeting, perhaps when you make your presentation, you can shock the hell out of the audience with this quote:

Concern had been heightened by a series of articles published in the summer of 1985 in the New York Times. The articles cited statements by two computer experts reporting that a computer program widely used for vote-tallying was vulnerable to tampering. Several elections were identified in which losing candidates claimed that it would be possible to fraudulently alter the computer programs that were used in their contests.

(link here, bold added).

And ask why did the NY Times stop writing articles about insecure voting systems after 1985 ... is there any relation to Orwell's book 1984 perhaps?

Perhaps Orwell was closer than we first imagined???

Things are getting curiouser and curiouser ... or is it Matrixier and Matrixier?

And btw re #28 Paul in LA,
Anyone who is not familiar with the term "Town Hall Meeting" at this point has really got some catching up to do!!

I thought you made some good points, Paul, but in your subsequent comment you seemed miffed at Brad's reply to you. If you wouldn't mind a friendly suggestion: try re-reading his reply without the assumption that he was being snarky with you. Because originally, I read it that way, too; but sometimes it's tricky reading text & gleaning the actual intention of the writer (as my children-my computer consultants-have helpfully pointed out to me more than once!)
I mean, it's POSSIBLE he was being snarky of course, but I honestly don't think so. He's taken much stronger criticisms with equanimity, as I recall. He just said - if I might paraphrase here - that if they'd had more time, money & people, they might have "...come up with better stuff...".
And he pointed out - correctly, imho - that we should all be careful to NOT use the term "voter fraud" because it implies erroneously that the problems lie with the voters.
For the record, I love the flier: it's colorful, it has alot of detail & info, it's great! You might come up with an equally great flier, Paul, or even better. Like Brad says, "the more the merrier" & God knows the more that are out there, the farther we spread the word.

So, shake on it, you guys! We need to stick together because our foes love it when we disagree.

Maybe it's the IRI that gave rise to the Karl Rove University for Disinformation (KRUD) as a training school for trolls.

Holy shit Dredd, the way they are running these elections now is te exact opposite of what was recommended back in'88, Like,"It is recommended that the use of pre-scored punch card ballots be ended." I'll keep reading...

AA #47 said of Brad:

"The Democratic leadership in CA thinks you are a disinfo charlatan"

Prove it. Name some names.

Dredd, I found one 1985 article mentioned in the '88 report at newsgarden.org
link

This one is even better
As of the most recent tests this year, errors in the basic counting instructions in the computer programs had been found in almost a fifth of the examinations. These "tabulation-program errors" probably would not have been caught in the local jurisdictions. "I don't understand why nobody cares," Michael L. Harty, who was until recently the director of voting systems and standards for Illinois, told me last December in Springfield. "At one point, we had tabulation errors in twenty-eight per cent of the systems tested, and nobody cared."

Little goody from the above article

"Could a local or state office or a seat in the United States House of Representatives be stolen by computer? Might the outcome of a close race for a United States Senate seat be determined by computer fraud in large local jurisdictions?Since, under the state-by-state, winner-take-all rules of the electoral college, a close Presidential election can be decided by relatively few votes in two or three big states, could electronic illusionists steal the Presidency by fixing the vote-counting computers in just four or five major metropolitan areas?Could people breaking into or properly positioned within a computerized-vote counting company, acting for political reasons or personal gain, steal House or Senate seats, or even the White House itself?"
they knew it back then in '88

Zenseeker (#48) --- I can tell you why HuffPost hasn't put up your post.

It is too damn long.

The nature of the current media (for good or bad, and I'd be last to say it's good) is that THE MESSAGE MUST BE SHORT AND SWEET.

Hence,

What's At Stake?Nothing less than democracy!

or

Let's count the ballots by hand so we can have confidence in the result.

You get the idea?

Keep it short.Keep it simple.People may read it.

Let it ramble. Let it get too long. People will skip it and look for a more "digestable" tidbit.

If you have massive supporting documentation or references, put them in links so the are available for those who might argue with you or want to pursue the issues, but the data is not forced on all readers.

It may not be fair. It may not be right. But it sure as heck is true.

Charlie LPortland, OR

A bit OT, ZenSeeker, but a very nice analysis from your unique perspective... So sad that history has shown the whole Vietnam war could have been avoided if the US had just recognized an independant Vietnam, BEFORE Uncle Ho went communist & after the French were defeated. Anyone ASSUMING Vietnam would partner with China obviously knew nothing of the 1000 years of culture and hot wars they had...

NO ONE wins wars... one side just is damaged less. Everybody loses...

Dredd, not to get way off, but this is what I was researching before, a quote,
Vice President Wallace wrote in The New York Times on April 9,1944, “The really dangerous American fascist,… is the man who wants to do in the United States in an American way what Hitler did in Germany in
a Prussian way. The American fascist would prefer not to use violence. His method is to poison the channels of public information. With a fascist the
problem is never how best to present the truth to the public but how best to use the news to deceive the public into giving the fascist and his group
more money or more power.”
Wallace then added,
“They claim to be super-patriots, but they would destroy every liberty guaranteed by the Constitution. They demand free enterprise, but are the spokesmen for monopoly and vested interest. Their final objective
toward which all their deceit is directed is to capture political power so that, using the power of the state and the power of the market simultaneously, they may keep the common man in eternal subjection.”
Them old f#*ers were pretty prescient
Link

Floridiot #66

Wshoo - you sure got that right! It's amazing how so many back then forsaw what could happen.

An interesting take on the upcoming Mexican Elections

Maybe ? folks are getting hip to fox lies. . .

"Ailes Cracks Whip as Fox News Slips"

http://www.broadcastingc...m/article/CA6346894.html

Brad - Good Luck !

#66 Floridiot,
That's an amazing quote. It's sickening how right on the money it is.

OT,.. but encouraging news.

The Boston Globe Monday, 6/26/06 - asks in an article was the 2004 election stolen ?
Link to article

More drug problems ?
Rush Limbaugh on a return trip from the Dominican Republic,.. is stopped at the airport for possible
possession of illegal drugs on his person.

Palm Beach media link,.. with video

WEST PALM BEACH, Florida (AP)* --- Rush LIMPaugh
was detained for about 3 1/2 hours at Palm Beach International Airport after authorities said they found a bottle of Viagra in his possession without a prescription. * with minor change b to P

Just Viagra . . . . . Ya right . . .

LAURA FLANDERS Guest hosting the Mike Malloy show on AAR & other stations has comented on these Town Hall meetings in CA on the radio tonight. There is 2 hours left in this Show & she is taking calls. FYI

JOJ

You beat me to it - just came to post the same. Bob Fritakis just finished discussing Ohio. Very good show so far!
Laura is about to discuss the town meetings now.

BB2 - Got my ears on . . .

http://listen.airamericaradio.com/

Baseball commissioner George Bush - I love it! LOL

Baseball commissioner, How About life in Abu Ghraib . . . . . . (w) lil Lynndie England ? ? ?

Ain't that the truth!

"Everything you always wanted to Know But were afraid to ask"

On the Effectiveness of Aluminium Foil Helmets:

An Empirical Study . . . Enjoy !

http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/

JOJ #81

Well it appears the only solution is a Faraday Cage

BB2 #82 - Indeed yes. I must go back to my cage & get some zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz . . .

PBS,.. The Dark Side,.. dick cheney,.. hijacks the
intelligence apparatus to prove the need for the Iraqi
War.
Click to open the six chapters.
PBS needs continued governmental funding to operate,.. they do not call these guys blatant fascists,.. adequately done,.. if you read between the lines.

Video link 90 min. expose

oldturk

Thanks for the Dark Side link. I have heard much about it, but have yet to see it. Too late tonight - need some sleep. I too shall retire to my cage! I got the optional wave guides, how about you?

Floridiot #66

That is why I have been using the phrase republican dictatorship, and explaining that a modern dictatorship is:

"any process or factor that prevents the people from expressing their will by way of their vote".

It seems strange to consider it that way. However, if government can not be changed by the people, and the government does what it wants regardless of the will of the people, what else is it?

And if it is a matter of a facade election system, via defective and insecure machines, which really does not express the will of the people in any provable way, what else is it but a defacto dictatorship?

Republican dictatorship is not too much of a stretch, if any, under such circumstances. Lets face it, it is beginning to look like big brother is republican.

BB2- Does the optional wave guides help much? Ya see I'ma light sleeper & nuclear EMP always wakes me up . . .

Oldturk - Cool, will check it out in lata

Good Night . . . . . John-Boy . . .

OFF TOPIC, but interesting. Limpbaugh is impotent and apparently engaging in sex outside of marriage. Isn't he opposed to that? Hmmm

Limbaugh Detained at Palm Beach Airport
By Associated Press
5 HOURS AGO

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. - Rush Limbaugh was detained for more than three hours Monday at Palm Beach International Airport after authorities said they found a bottle of Viagra in his possession without a prescription.
CE officials found a prescription bottle labeled as Viagra, a drug that treats erectile dysfunction, in his luggage, Miller said."The problem was that on the bottle itself was not his name, but the name of two Florida doctors". Investigators confiscated the drugs, and Limbaugh was released around 5:30 p.m. without being charged.

These warmongers have got to go,...

we have to fix the ballot box to do that.

Traumatic brain injuries coming home from Iraq

Heh, so thats how he got the handle "Limpballs"

Now I'm going to try to look at all this through the 501c angle

because, this story ticked me off

Jeez, not many looking at this angle, one of my earlier comments was page 1, 9th comment on Google

Link

"Under Senate Bill 1510, now being considered in the Senate as an Anti-terrorism act:

a.. An entire 501C3 organization or other organization, including its members, can have their assets seized for supporting bodily acts or international causes that the U.S. Secretary of State may deem terrorist activity."

This was from '01, I wonder if its law now ?

If it is, then what about Haiti, Cuba, Venezuela, or just South of the border in general ?

Wouldn't influencing election outcomes be deemed as a terrorist activity ? In my book it would most certainly be
The articles that this artical link to is all the crap right after Sept 11th that they shoved down our throats, the Fascist bastards
Link

Can't stay right now - a couple quickies!

New report - 120 major flaws in voting machines.

Blackwell continues to cheat Ohio.

This is a real good rant that nails it down pretty good from the '40's to date (scroll down to); Exposing the Neocon Matrix, Mass Murder in New Orleans, and Weather Weapons
By Muada Shakur
Link

Ditto heads, Hmmmmmmm... seems more like "Dildo Heads" . . .

"Your honor, Ya C, looking at that Erect microphone day after day made me feel inadequate" . . . . .

Tell that to the Dildo heads. . .

I be so Fucking Green I hate to waste bits !!!

From 3000 mi away, U FOLKS kick M. F. Ass Tonight . . . . . This Movement is finally getting some Laxative . . .

WE ARE LONG OVERDUE FOR A "TEA PARTY"

Greg Palast's inspired musical videos...

Lynching by Laptop Part 2
http://video.google.com/...amp;q=Lynching+by+Laptop

Dying Regime
http://video.google.com/...89403&q=Dying+Regime

Use at will

Peace !

Lynching by Laptop
http://video.google.com/...amp;q=Lynching+by+Laptop

Boy, did old Roverer change his tune on Social Security ?
naw, thats just a campaign ruse... check this,
He (Roverer) was critical of President Bush’s plan to create personal retirement accounts with Social Security taxes, calling it a “failed privatization scheme.” Braley said creating a hands-off approach to a Social Security trust fund would be one way of ensuring it is available to future generations.
“It’s a safety net that we need to preserve,” he added.

I didn't know that the SEX TRADE WAS HUGE in the Dominicam Repubic where the Shitbag limbaugh visited. . .

Pardon the Froidian Slip intentended . . . . .

limbaugh is a perfect example of CONservative gop & republican . . . . . morals integrity ethics & character. . .

WHO ARE limbaughs DOC'S ???????????????????????????????

Sorry [Freudian] Butt . . . . . It stopped raining the sun is out & CONservatives Criminals are in trouble . . .

Brad..... From way out here in the Midwest, My thoughts and prayers are with you all out in California. I know you will do a great job as always. I hope you will let us all know what happens at your end. Thanks for all you do!

Brad - Can you get a feed & put it on line ? ? ? So we can listen between LIMPbaugh Yucks . . .

Congress is wasting 4 DAYs on flag burning & What on ELECTION Fraud?

I hope rusty limbaugh III (the turd) will talk about Handling ERECTION Fraud . . . . . Today . . .

Brad,
Break a leg at this Town Hall meeting!!! Knock 'em dead...kick ass...all that good stuff...we know you will 'cause you know your stuff! (plus you're hot... that doesn't hurt!) (hey, I'm old enuf to be your mom, so I'm allowed to say that!)
#s 81 & 82 JoJ & BB2,
That stuff may protect you from radio waves...but is it bullshit proof??

O.T but good news...More big kudos for Ozone Man...Go AL!!
Scientists Give Gore Movie Five Stars for Accuracy

"... The nation's top climate scientists are giving "An Inconvenient Truth,'' Al Gore's documentary on global warming, five stars for accuracy...
..."I sat there and I'm amazed at how thorough and accurate,'' Corell said. "After the presentation I said, `Al, I'm absolutely blown away. There's a lot of details you could get wrong.' ... I could find no error.''

link

Joan #105

Only bullshit proof if you use lots of duct tape and plastic wrap over the windows and doors!

# 107 Bluebear2,
Haha right, I'll keep that in mind.
Did you know that there've been studies that show duct tape is marvellously useful for many things but the one area where duct tape failed miserably was for use on ducts?
I forget where I heard that, unfortunately.

Republicans are FOR spying on Americans, FOR jailing reporters who report truthful news that doesn't fit the Republican agenda, AGAINST the internet because of freedom of speech on the internet, FOR giving amnesty to insurgents who fought against and/or killed American soldiers, FOR putting up blockades to make voting more difficult because the less voters the better for Republicans, FOR outing CIA agents, FOR big government invading our privacy and our bedrooms, AGAINST the environment with shredding environmental laws, FOR torturing prisoners which in turn causes our American soldiers to get tortured, FOR murdering innocent Iraqi civilians by the tens-of-thousands, FOR government corruption by turning a blind eye on all investigations against REpublicans, FOR buying "time" with the president for the rich (Abramoff), FOR the industrial military complex profits and endless war and terror, AGAINST medicare/medicaid/social security, AGAINST tax money going towards our kids college instead of war profits...

...the ONLY reason these unAmerican creeps have the majority is because of electronic voting machines made by Republican donors DIEBOLD and ES&S. These people are unAmerican, and are the OPPOSITE of what America stands for (used to stand for, until they stole our country). And Bushco was in on 9/11.

WE NEED TO GET THESE BASTARDS OUT OF OFFICE AND IN JAIL!!!

Joan, #108

Although all my work these days is done in the office and on computers running load calculations and doing AutoCAD drawings, I spent about 20 years coming up throught the ranks working in the field and I can attest to the fact that what is commonly known as duct tape is pretty useless when it comes to ducts.

My friend found it great for holding his motocross motorcyle together and patching the holes in his racing leathers!

Anybody know if the meetings are being taped so we can listen in later?

#109 Big Dan,
"WE NEED TO GET THESE BASTARDS OUT OF OFFICE AND IN JAIL"
I'll drink to that!!
ITMFA ITMFA ITMFA ITMFA ITMFA ITMFA ITMFA ITMFA ITMFA ITMFA ITMFA ITMFA ITMFA ITMFA ITMFA ITMFA !!!

Their buddy rush may beat them to the slammer (although I wouldn't hold my breath) since he may have violated his probation with his little Viagra adventure at the airport (if it was Viagra, who knows?), according to Jim Derych, a "former dittohead" writing on the Huffington Post.
He asks a few interesting questions, too, such as:
"...Maybe the rules for 'probation' are different, but I thought you could only leave the state for business purposes and only then with permission. How did Rush get permission to take a vacation out of the country?..."
Good question.

Big Dan

LET'S CALL THE COPS!!!!

{ED NOTE: Comment deleted. Disinformation.}

Brad - maybe you can post some video highlights from the LA meeting for people who couldn't attend and Thanks for letting that zenseeker #48 speak his mind (lots of nugs). Impeach & jail bUSHit crime syndicate.

Okay Buckeye Fan. That link of Bluebear2's was to AN *OHIO* NEWSPAPER ARTICLE. I was wondering if you were a disinformation artist already, and now I'm positive of it. We don't mind differing views so much around here but disinformation is not tolerated for long.

Ignore this guy, folks. "Please don't feed the trolls."

So you give Debra Bowen an endorsement. Help her on Huffington post. Have stuff on your web site. And .....not a word about CA-50 on her web site.

Is she helping? This is a clue to what type of SOS she would be. I'm not impressed. No more money for her. My money goes to people who fight: ACLU, Bradblog, Fiengold, Conveys, Verified Voting, etc

(Bowen's running for CA Sec of State)

This is an editorial, from the editors of Raw Story. Is it me or is this a little....odd?

please read this

MAR are you out there?

Anyone from Canada can you please comment on this which has been posted here on another thread:

"...how Canada does their voting. When you send in your tax returns, then the Canadian Gov't sends you a voting card for that year. And when you go to vote, they keep the card. That way, only those who pay taxes are allowed to vote."

Buckeye Fan (C) 114

2004 egregious voter registration fraud by Sproul Associates,.. financed by the Republican Party.

Sproul/GOP voter registration fraud

Sproul Associates paid million of dollars by team Bush
in 2004,.. to perform fraudulent voter registrations.

Sproul paid $ millions by GOP

-----------

Voter fraud alleged

Group accused of trashing Democrats' registration forms

By ADRIENNE PACKER
REVIEW-JOURNAL

Federal and state authorities are looking into Democratic Party allegations that a voter registration group hired by the Republican Party tossed out registration forms signed by Democrats.

The FBI and state officials are reviewing comments by Eric Russell, a former employee of Voter Outreach of America, who claims to have witnessed supervisors throwing away Democrats' voter registration forms.

Destruction of the forms is a federal crime, according to Clark County attorneys.

"We are gathering preliminary information and we'll discuss that information with the U.S. Attorney," said FBI Special Agent David Schrom. "Based on what his guidance is, we'll see whether there is a potential federal violation and whether we can initiate an investigation."

Secretary of State Dean Heller also said Wednesday he is reviewing state and federal laws to determine which might have been violated.

Russell, who was paid $8.50 an hour to register voters, said he was fired last month after protesting his supervisors' destruction of Democratic forms.

"I didn't think it was right to register Republicans when there are others out there that should also be allowed the opportunity to register," Russell said Wednesday. A supervisor "right in front of me was tearing up the Democratic registration forms."

A Chandler, Ariz., political consulting firm, Sproul & Associates, was hired by the Republican National Committee to register Republicans in Nevada, according to the Associated Press. In Nevada, a hotly contested swing state in the presidential election, Voter Outreach carried out the registration effort.

Nathan Sproul, head of Sproul & Associates and a former director of the Arizona Republican Party, denied Voter Outreach workers tore up forms, the Associated Press reported. He called Russell a disgruntled employee.

But Russell isn't the only former Voter Outreach employee to express concerns about the method used to collect Republican voter registration forms. And Sproul's tactics have also been called into question in Oregon, where officials are investigating his group's voter registration efforts.

Tyrone Mrasak said when he worked for the organization the daily goal was to register 18 Republican voters. If they reached their goal in two hours, for example, they could leave and still be paid for eight hours of work, Mrasak said.

"We didn't get credit for forms we brought back marked Democrat," he said.

Mrasak said he often loitered in front of homeless shelters and rewarded homeless people with cigarettes for registering Republican.

"As long as they have an address, they can register," Mrasak said. "If they were looking to bum a cigarette I'd say, `I'll trade you a cigarette if you sign this.' "

Democrats said they have done no investigation of the allegations themselves and have based their claims on a local television news report that aired Tuesday.

Their claims are the latest in a series of allegations from both parties that either Democrats or Republicans are trying to taint November's already contentious general election.

"Republicans are trying to steal this election," Democrat Steven Horsford said during a Wednesday press conference held to respond to Russell's comments.

"This is a horrible thing that has happened in this state," said Clark County Commissioner Yvonne Atkinson Gates, who also serves as chairwoman of the Democratic National Committee's Black Caucus. "It's something we will not tolerate."

Brian Scroggins, chairman of the Clark County Republican Party, said the Republicans have "zero tolerance" for voter registration fraud. He added that Democrats have "selective outrage" over such matters.

"Some groups they've been involved with in the past have had allegations of voter fraud and they weren't outraged at that time," Scroggins said. "We are not out there trying to disenfranchise anybody or keep people from going to the polls."

In Oregon, officials opened their investigation on the heels of a local television report in which a paid-per-registration canvasser for Sproul & Associates said he had been instructed only to accept registrations from Republicans, and that he "might" destroy those from Democrats, the Associated Press reported.

News of the alleged destruction of Democratic registration forms reached Washington, D.C., on Wednesday, prompting Democratic National Committee chairman Terence McAuliffe to fire off a letter to his Republican counterpart. In it, he demanded to know why Republicans are funding "an organization that is ripping up voter registration forms of Democrats."

"We are deeply concerned these reports of Republican National Committee funded felonious activities ... could serve to discourage all voters from voting because of concerns of problems with their ballot," McAuliffe wrote in a letter to Ed Gillespie, chairman of the Republican National Committee.

McAuliffe urged Gillespie to refrain from paying voter registration organizations such as Voter Outreach until investigations are completed.

Voters who show up at the polls, but do not appear on registration rolls, may request to vote provisionally. Provisional votes are counted in federal races and only in case of a close election.

If provisional voters bring voter registration receipts with them to the polls it increases the likelihood their votes will be counted, according to county election officials.

County officials said if provisional votes come into play, the battle over which provisional votes count will likely end up in court.

Wednesday's denouncement of what Democrats labeled political "trickery" came one day after they decried Republican Dan Burdish's challenge to 17,000 Democratic voters.

Burdish, a Republican businessman and former state party executive director, challenged the voters in the 3rd Congressional District, arguing that as "inactive voters" they do not live at the address associated with their voter registration.

The accusations from both parties could lead to lawsuits should either John Kerry or President Bush win the state by a small margin.

The parties might be casting doubt on the registration process to lay the groundwork for lawsuits, said David Damore, a political science professor at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas.

"It doesn't surprise me they're trying to get this out there, put the doubt out there so they have some basis for a legal challenge," Damore said. "American political history is rife with these types of activities. It's unfortunate, but it goes to the issue of how intense this campaign is being fought in the sense people care about the outcome and that might lead them to bend the rules."

The Democrats have set up a phone line to answer questions about infringements on voters' rights. Voters can call 877-WE-VOTE-2 if they have questions.

The Associated Press contributed

Buckeye Fan,.. (C) # 114

GOP voter suppression back to 1980's,...

In 1981 a new organization, the Republican National Committee's National Ballot Security Task Force, attracted some public attention during the New Jersey Gubernatorial election. A subsequent lawsuit filed against the RNC by the Democratic Party revealed that armed off duty policeman, some of them "prominently displaying revolvers" and wearing Task Force armbands visited minority precincts. The National Ballot Security Task Force also engaged in an early attempt at a voter purge, sending letters to registered Democrats in heavily black or Hispanic neighborhoods then using those letters returned as undeliverable to challenge voters as nonresidents. The result was a 1982 Consent Decree in which the Republican Party promised not to use election tactics that deterred minorities from voting. The extent to which this consent decree was flouted can be measured by observing the number of cases of minority suppression that took place over the next few years.
1982: The very same year the GOP signed the consent decree, they attempted a voter purge in Texas. Lists of purported "convicted felons" were sent to local Texas election officials, and there were plans to post armed law enforcement officers at minority voter precincts. Legal action resulted, in this case some successful slander lawsuits against those who had provided lists that falsely accused some voters of being convicted felons.

1986: In the Louisiana Senatorial campaign, unforwardable letters were sent out to voters in black districts, and the returned letters used to purge some 30,000 names from the rolls. Once again, a lawsuit was filed, with a state district judge observing that "the only reasonable conclusion is that they [the Republican Party] initiated this purge with the specific intent of disenfranchising these blacks of their right to vote."

1988: In Orange County Hispanic voters were targeted by the California Republican Party, which hired uniformed security guards to demand identification from voters at polling places in predominantly Hispanic areas.

1990: The North Carolina Senatorial race between Jesse Helms and Harvey Gantt was marred not only by an overtly racist pro-Helms ad but by a postcard sent out to voters in predominantly black districts the week before the election. The postcard implied that anyone who had moved within the past month would be arrested if they attempted to vote. Many African American voters who were unintimidated by the postcard faced stumbling blocks not often encountered in the predominantly white precincts, including broken machines, long lines, and openly hostile Republican "ballot security teams," who showed up at more than a dozen heavily black precincts.

By the 1990s the GOP, firmly in the pocket of the religious right, barely bothered to hide the fact that they considered a low voter turnout desirable. Their efforts emphasized, not just energizing their own voting base, but ensuring that Democratic voters, black or white, stayed home. The fact that most American voters rejected the far right agenda embraced by the GOP could be sidestepped by almost literally boring much of the electorate into submission. As Pat Robertson wrote in his 1990 book, THE MILLENIUM, "With the apathy that exists today, a small, well-organized minority can influence the selection of candidates to an astonishing degree." Republican pollster Bill McInturff, put it more subtly when he said, "Politics is about two things: Mobilizing your voters, and not mobilizing the other side. Both are valid goals."

For black and other minority Democrats, there were "ballot security teams."

For white Democrats, the GOP ran stealth candidates who carefully downplayed aspects of their agenda (like significant connections with the religious right) that might mobilize votes against them. At the same time, they inflamed their own base with exaggerated rhetoric, painting moderates as liberals and liberals as leftists, and both as Godless enemies of America and all it represents. Aided by a press that could be trusted to play along and not ask important and complex questions, the far right succeeded in dumbing down political discourse so completely that the ideas that make a political race interesting and engaging were almost completely absent from any media coverage.

The extent to which this desire for a low turnout can bleed into actual voter suppression was illustrated in a 1993 scandal in which both the media's and the GOP's blasé attitude about this tactic became briefly but embarrassingly apparent. Just after the election of Republican Christine Todd Whitman as governor of New Jersey, her political consultant Ed Rollins claimed at a journalists' breakfast to have, among other things, bribed key black poll workers to "sit and watch television" at home on election day.

"I think to a certain extent we suppressed their vote " he boasted, adding context to a comment made after the election by Danny Todd and quoted in TIME Magazine. "That is where a lot of our effort went, and a lot of our planning, getting out the vote on one side and voter sup --- keeping the vote light in another."

There was a brief public flurry that seemed to center as much on Rollins' indiscretion as on the fact that he'd admitted to suppressing the black vote. One unnamed breakfast attendee admitted to the Times, "Did we stand up in moral outrage, condemn him and throw food at him? No, we asked for details on how it was done."

Jadegold on February 20, 2005 at 6:02 PM

Joan #118 --- I don't why it's on Raw Story, but it is apparently an editorial from the "National Review". It is not a surprising piece from the National Review.

Good catch, Bluebear2 (#119)

The quote you posted is from "Florida Dave" and (as we all have come to expect from him) it is not even close to the truth.

What actually happens is so far OT from this thread that it is not worth describing here. Let's just say that Dave's reputation as a disinformation-monger was not endangered by that post.

Re my #118
Oh man. What a relief! That editorial is from The National Review. Apologies. (hey, it's 1:30 in the morning)
I thought the good people at Raw Story had suddenly lost their minds.
Goodnight, all. Time to rest the weary brain.

#122
Yes, thanks, Arry! I realized my mistake when I went back & looked more closely!

Hey, Joan! It says "National Review Online" at the bottom of the piece, and it looks as if it had been pasted over the Raw Story page. Weird.

GOP voter suppression/disenfranchisement
down to a fascist science,...

GOP ploys/games to eliminate Demo voters

hi kids,

please pardon the blogwhoring, but i was present at the first townhall meeting tonight in venice, california.

my recollection of the events here.

it was very invigorating and inspiring and angry-making all at the same time.

i urge everyone in the san diego/orange county areas to go.

Hey Turk, how about this one
"Elton Davis was the computer programmer responsible for the magic
formula that could convert one machine's vote results into near
perfect projected vote totals for 40 races and 250 candidates. When
Jim and Ken confronted Davis in his office, he responded: "You'll
never prove it, now get out."
Link

Dredd, that one article that I linked to was Ronnie Dugger, 1988
This is he, again in 2001
Link

Brad, when you're not too busy
Could you get an interview with Mr Dugger
It might be interesting

"Ronnie Dugger, founding editor of The Texas Observer and co-founder of the Alliance for Democracy, has written biographies of Lyndon Johnson and Ronald Reagan, as well as other books, and hundreds of articles for Harper's Magazine, The Nation, The New Yorker, The Atlantic Monthly, The Progressive and other periodicals."

Link

Crap, good link above, but I meant to do this one
Link

What I said before I read some of his stuff.

Interview...hell, Brad, see if he'll guest blog here

"The integrity of the vote-counting inside DREs depends on audit logs and reports they print out, but as Neumann says, these are "not real audit trails" because they are themselves riggable. The DREs randomly store three to seven complete sets of alleged duplicates of each voter's ballot, and sets of these images can be printed out after the election and manually counted. The companies claim that satisfies the requirement in the 2002 Help America Vote Act (HAVA) that "a manual audit capacity" must be available. But as informed computer scientists unanimously agree, if the first set of ballot images is corrupted, they all are. I asked Robert Boram, the chief engineer who invented a DRE sold by the RF Shoup voting-systems company, if he could rig his DRE's three sets of ballot images. "Give me a month," he replied."
Link

Another quote from the #135 link
"In his front parlor at home in Georgia, Rob Behler told me that just before or just as he took over the Atlanta warehouse for Diebold, some of the voting machines had been sent out to "do demos," and in one southern county "somebody broke in and stole...[nine or] fourteen of the machines and, I think, one of the servers." He says the vote-counting programs in the stolen computers could have been completely reconstructed by reverse engineering and employed to jimmy the election."

Here is Duggers home page, good stuff

THE ALLIANCE for DEMOCRACY

Floridiot #130

We have discovered that election officialdom has had the information about the dangers of electronic voting machines since 1976, when Roy G. Saltman did his first report. The 1988 report was his second, and also Dugger continues in his warnings.

And there have been many recent reports that have gone unheeded and ignored.

And we know officialdom in general follows the Disobeyer in Chief and cares none for laws (link here).

So it occurs to me that these town hall meetings are the way to go now. I mean the people will be concerned so they are the ones to go to.

The System of Officialdom be damned; we now go to the people with Town Hall Meetings around the country, and something can finally, after decades, be done.

Yeah Dredd, Wouldn't Dugger be a good talker at the meetings though ?
Or a good question guy to go to ?
His answers would fry any of the disinfo experts "so called" answers

Joan #118

Sometimes they link to right wing propaganda, which the link seems to be, to show how the right thinks.

That article does not sound at all like a Raw Story editorial.

Floridiot #139

For sure Dugger would be a good and useful speaker, as would Saltman. Velvet Revolution would also be blessed to hook up with The Alliance For Democracy ... I mean since on their website (your link at post #137) they indicate that they network with other movements.

Brad and the gang will offer some new blood and new energy, which together, would be quite well informed.

And good for the people of the nation to hear.

I emailed this to Dugger:

Mr. Ronnie Dugger,

I am a blogger at bradblog.com, velvetrevolution.us, and blackboxvoting.org.

At BradBlog.com, in a current thread, we have been talking about you and your work after discovering some articles from the '80's that you wrote.

We visited your website and wondered why your org is not a member of VelvetRevolution.us

A series of town hall meetings are taking place to discuss the election machines and their insecurity.

If you have any interest, you could email Brad Friedman at TheBradBlog@cville.com and discuss the Town Hall meetings, etc.

later,
Dredd
--

Hey, the only way to go now is up to the people.

Brad, how do we form town hall meetings locally? Where do we start? We would want to co-ordinate it so you could speak and the like ...

I didn't get to read Buckeye Fan's misinformation, but which one is he? HCOCDR, Ricky, Mike J, or are they all the same guy? There's a difference between deleting lies & misinformation, and deleting a dissenting opinion...

"Voted on by people living in Ohio"... uh, yes, the 6 Repubs and 4 Dems on Blackwell's committee... not exactly the grassroots!

"Liberal Groups from out of state"... uh, no, it's a single domestic crackhead. Why no interest in who manipulated him using his addiction? Who and What is behind his plea bargin?

That was in 2005... you remember, the year that TRUE grassroots initiatives polled 2:1 support, but mysteriously failed by a 2:1 vote tally...

Same kind of rules in Florida have caused the League of Women Voters to stop registering people...

And now the NeoCon tools have shot down the renewal of the historic 'Voting Rights Act of 1965'... for which MILLIONS of citizens fought & marched!

Buckeye Fan, or Disenfranchisement Fan?

Floridiot and Dredd --- My enthusiasm for Ronnie Dugger's "new populism" is what brought me out of the doldrums quite a number of years ago. I somehow let my membership in the Alliance for Democracy expire when the organization seemed to be floundering for a little while, but looking at the website brings back old feelings --- and it does appear to be a going concern again.

"New populism" --- That's what Brad Blog is all about, right?

#140 Dredd,
"That article does not sound at all like a Raw Story editorial"
Yeah, that's why it freaked me out! I saw 'The Raw Story' on top, under that 'The Editorial' ...etcetera
...I didn't notice the words 'National Review Online' at the very bottom. My bad.
I was afraid for a moment that somehow bushco had managed to actually make up down & black white & that perhaps the USA was now officially The Twilight Zone.

Floridiot,
Thanks for the Ronnie Dugger links! He certainly sounds like someone with whom Brad should hook up.

BTW, for anyone who is still planning to back john kerry, conceder-in-chief, in '08, this is a quote from a 2004 Dugger article titled
"How They Could Steal the Election This Time" (link to it from Floridiot's last link):

"...Kerry says his campaign is readying 2,000 lawyers to "challenge any place in America where you cannot trace the vote and count the votes"[see Greg Palast, "Vanishing Votes," May 17]..."
date - August 16, 2004 (3 mos. before the election)

Right, john. Great job you did back then, you & your 2000 lawyers, after millions of us busted our asses going door-to-door for you.
Said it before, sayin' it again:
KERRY'S CREDIBILITY IS A SHRIVELED RAISIN.

That Dugger article: link here

At long last Britt Hume on Fox news covered Ion Sancho and the hack test in Florida and how it applies to other states. Not a long piece but also it was not negative as to how it applied to Ion Sancho.

Alliance for Democracy does have a "banner" (is that the right term?) on the Velvet Revolution site under "Stand with VR...and over 100 organizations!"

Brad, Wonkette.com stole your police bubblegum ball light!!!!!

Yeah Arry he might, I hope he comes here to chat, I think his knowledge about ELECTION fraud would put me to shame I'm sure, for as long as he has been going after it

Here's a fine Ronnie Dugger speech from 2001.

Ronnie's no wimp.

Joan #146 said:

"…Kerry says his campaign is readying 2,000 lawyers to "challenge any place in America where you cannot trace the vote and count the votes""

I had seen that statement when it was first published.
That is why I was so suprised and pissed off when he bailed out so early!

I love this one Arry, not the Bush pResidency, but the "the Tyrannical Interlude."

I needed rhinoplasty from holding my nose after I voted for Kerry. . .

Kerry may have been better off with 1 Brad Friedman than the 2000 lawyers.

I can't wait to hear (read) how that meeting went last night. Any news?

Peg C. - Me to. How long does it take to reload this page?

Howard Stern with 10-20 Million Listeners was actively supporting Kerry But Kerry never publically acknowledged it.

JOJ, nobody has said it yet to you, so I'll steal an old phrase.
In Kerrys circles, they say "Theres only so many pieces of that trailer trash pie to go around", or something like that
I forget who said that, John Adams or Reagan

In other words, if you aren't worth a few million, they don't even care

Floridiot

"JOJ, nobody has said it yet to you, so I'll steal an old phrase" #157 & #158
I do not compleetly know how to take your reply . . .

Are you folks saying I'm trailer Trash ? ? ?

JOJ

I think he's refering to Howard's listeners!

#128 & #155
Skippy,
I forgot to thank you for posting that link to your experience of the meeting last night...that was very good of you! Peg's question (155) reminded me.
Anyone else go?

"4 Plead No Contest in Ohio Ethics Case"
By JOHN SEEWER

In a scandal that has shaken the state's Republican-dominated government, four Ohio politicians pleaded no contest Wednesday to ethics violations....

....They were accused of receiving money from prominent GOP donor Tom Noe, then contributing it to President Bush's re-election campaign in their own names in an alleged scheme by Noe to skirt laws limiting individual contributions to $2,000.

The four bring to 14 the number of people charged in the scandal centered on Noe...[who]...pleaded guilty last month to giving $45,000...to two dozen friends and associates who then donated the money in their names to the Bush campaign. He is awaiting trial on state charges of embezzling more than $1 million...."
link

No, JOJ thats what the Rich people think of Howard listeners, it is above them, sorry if you think I think that way
I don't listen to Howard myself, I like potty humor, but not his way

JOAN #118 and others

Regarding the Raw Story editorial - here's another view from them

Joan #162

Thanks for bringing that bit of sunshine!

#153 - Floridiot --- I thought of doing a blog entitled something like "Journal of the Tyrannical Interlude"...

BTW, (entirely OT), for those unfamiliar with the term "new populism" - in the 80's particularly (and into the '90's) there was a movement of sorts to examine and re-evaluate the anti-corporate, democratic, civic traditions of the U.S. that have always existed alongside the corporate, plutocratic, oligarchic way of thinking. Sometimes, the former tradition has broken through as in Jacksonian America and, particularly in the populist movements of the 1890's and the turn of the century. The idea was to examine the mistakes made --- debilitating compromises, political naivete, racism, and so on in order to build a strong and very American alternative to the corporatism that is strangling liberty and colonizing every element of life. (Ronnie Dugger is a key figure in "new populism".)

The term has been pre-empted by Al Gore, among others (I'm not drawing any judgments here), but it is still worthwhile, IMO, to pursue the goal of building a true, deep and intelligent populist movement. In some ways the internet is providing a framework (and I consider Brad Blog to part of a populist resurgence) but it is important to conscious of what we are doing and how we are working within an important American tradition.

Enough!! Back to election topics. (I promise.) Just wanted to give a little background to Ronnie Dugger's work and to "new populism".

Bluebear2 # 119

I haven't the foggiest idea where that poster got his information from, but part of it isn't correct. The government doesn't send us a voting card when we send in our tax returns, but all eligible voters do get a card a couple of months before an election from the folks who compile the voters list.

At the time of election, you take your voting card to the polling station, hand it over and your name is checked against the voters list and then crossed off the list. They then hand you the paper ballot, you mark it in secret, and post it in the ballot box in full view of the poll workers.

Each ballot has a perforated strip on the bottom with a number on it, and before we post our ballots, the poll worker tears off this strip and keeps it. That number on the removable strip does NOT appear anywhere on the actual ballot itself.

Only Canadian citizens can vote in a federal election. Any landed immigrants who have not yet applied for or received their citizenship papers can only vote in the provincial elections.

Paper ballots are the only way to go....!!!!!! Sorry, I don't mean to sound smug when I say that, but there's no way on gods earth an election can be hacked with simple paper ballots.....it would take thousands upon thousands of corrupt poll workers to pull off a stunt like that.

And as for the counting, it really doesn't take that long. Once the polls close at 9 pm in the Atlantic time zone, the count starts. I'm in the eastern time zone, so when it's midnight here where I am, the polls are closing on the west coast, and by that time, there's usually a good idea of how the election is going.

In fact, if I remember correctly at our last election earlier this year, by 10:30 pm eastern time, we knew that the corrupt, lying Liberals had been ousted and we had a new government, a minority one mind you, but a new one.....wow, that was a night for celebrating, for sure...lol..!!!

I hope with all my heart that you guys south of the border will be having your own celebrations come November, and I'll be up here cracking open the champagne for a toast or two, or maybe three or four, or more.....lol..!!!

Good luck........you are a great bunch of people at Bradblog, the best blog out there IMHO. And as for your fearless leader, he's the best, but you already know that. Don't know where he gets his energy from, but wish he would send some my way..!!

I forgot to add that 'a day without bradblog, is like a day without sunshine'...!!!

Bluebear2, Way back to #119, your question
"?how Canada does their voting. When you send in your tax returns, then the Canadian Gov't sends you a voting card for that year. And when you go to vote, they keep the card. That way, only those who pay taxes are allowed to vote."

Anyone 18 and over can registar to vote. You can register at the polling station during an advance poll or on election day
You do not have to be a tax payer to vote. The tax return gives you the "choice" to update information for the National Register of Electors, you don't have to fill that in. Our voting cards come from Elections Canada and they get the information from many "sources".
also , incarcerated electors serving a prison sentence in a Canadian correctional institution, have the right to vote... and we are not allowed to eat our ballot, it's a crime:)

MAR - (C) #167 & #168

Thank you for your info on the ballot process up there,.. your nice words,.. and your well wishes.

We likewise hope come November,.. champagne corks are popping coast to coast,.. and bu$$$h/cheney are shaking
in their cowboy boots,.. wondering how we intend to
remedy their horrendous trashing of our democracy.

Sorry Mar for repeating , it took me forever to get the "chars" right

Once upon a time I believed in santa, the sandman, the tooth fairy, the government & my vote was counted. . .

#170 OldTurk champagne corks were popping for only 38% of the Canadian population though. Hope you're results are 83% or more for the Democrats.

GWN - (C) # 173

Yes,.. Yes,.. Yes.
We are sick of the sound of right-wing champagne corks
popping.

Just wondering,..

Did Florida Dave hop in his Lear Jet,.. and head out west for a few greasy hamburgers before he and his gang
of fascists,.. crashed and trashed the San Diego -
TownHall Meeting ?

It sure does seem to me that Brad deletes dissenting opinion easily. It's not a very good way to have a honest debate, now is it.

A DIS-Honest Republican - (C) #176

Honest info/debate is more than welcome,..

dishonesty/disinformation is not,..

get lost !!!!

I agree with your sentiment, oldturk, but you're too late. "AHR" is lost already. ;-(

Iraq/Saddam WMD - Bu$$h #I/Carlyle Group connection found.

From the reports of Gonzalez's Banking Committee and two law suits by Desert Storm veterans suffering from Gulf War Syndrome against two Texas-based companies named as sources of chemical and biological weapons for Iraq in court filings, WMR can report that George H. W. Bush and James Baker were directly involved in providing WMDs to Saddam Hussein using then-private businessman Donald Rumsfeld as an intermediary.

Photo Link

----------

June 28, 2006 --- WMR has reported on the explosive information from two Iraqi War Army counter-intelligence veterans that they uncovered materials and documents proving that some of Saddam Hussein's chemical and biological weapons were provided in 1988 by The Carlyle Group, through Spanish and French intermediaries. WMR has learned that pre-cursor and recombinant chemicals used in Iraqi WMDs were provided by a Texas petrochemical company and a chemical/biological toxin firm in which George H. W. Bush held and continues to hold a financial stake.

------------

DeBatto wrote, "I opened the folded off-white paper form and noticed several interesting things right away. The bombs had been purchased in the United States in 1988 from what appeared to be a government contractor called The Carlyle Group. I am almost embarrassed now to say that I had not heard of The Carlyle Group at that time so the name meant nothing to me. The only reason I remember it at all is that I was amazed that the bill was in English and I was stunned to see that a bomb that was used by Iraq in delivering chemical WMD – the only WMD found during the entire Iraq war – was in fact supplied to Saddam Hussein by the United States. Un-blanking believable."

--------------

Read complete article here,...

Note: JUNE 28, 2006
(backtrack to date to locate article)

Link Article

Re: Floridiot #66

Read Thom Hartmann's brilliant (shit, is Hartmann ever anything but??) expose of American Fascism. Hartmann builds his thesis upon Wallace's warnings.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0719-15.htm

The meeting in San Diego (Oceanside) was probably about 60-100 people (I didn't actually count). I was wondering if Florida Dave was going to be there. If he was he didn't say anything.

I missed the rally... but at the meeting most of the issues discussed were things most of us here have heard many times, but it was good to see candidates, etc. that are actually pushing this issue. I think it has fairly good traction now. I didn't really take notes, so I can't go point by point what was discussed. The actual meeting was well over 2 hours. Someone who is guest hosting the Ed Shultz show (Someone please remind me which day... I think it might be tomorrow) said he would discuss it. Sorry I missed his name.

Brad was outstanding, of course (except when he almost tripped on a video cable, heh)

Hey Brad, was that your girlfriend in the brown skirt? She was hot!!

Sorry I don't have more specifics, but I thought I would throw some fresh meat out for you guys...

-- Chris Hooten

Chris, thanks for the update.

Next time, though, leave out the sophmoric sexism --- it diminishes your post.

Keep it for the locker room.

Charlie L
Portland, OR

Charlie L says,
"Next time, though, leave out the sophmoric sexism — it diminishes your post."

Huh? 'Cause I said she was hot?

Give me a break. Sheesh.

There is nothing I am more intolerant of than intolerance itself.

-- Chris Hooten

Florida Dave was probably listening to Rush Limbowel, cleaning his guns, down loading porn and masterbating . . .

Oops, I think I know why you are confused.
This sentence:
"Hey Brad, was that your girlfriend in the brown skirt? She was hot!!"

Was not related to this sentence:
"Sorry I don't have more specifics, but I thought I would throw some fresh meat out for you guys."

I was using the generic "guys" for "everybody," and the fresh meat was the info, not the girl. And the "specifics" were with respect to the meeting.

upon re-reading it, I can see how that could be read several ways...
OK enough of that...

-- Chris Hooten

This whole post came up empty when I posted this the first time, so apologies for any duplicates.

Oops, I think I know why you are confused.
This sentence:
"Hey Brad, was that your girlfriend in the brown skirt? She was hot!!"

Was not related to this sentence:
"Sorry I don't have more specifics, but I thought I would throw some fresh meat out for you guys."

I was using the generic "guys" for "everybody," and the fresh meat was the info, not the girl. And the "specifics" were with respect to the meeting.

upon re-reading it, I can see how that could be read several ways...
OK enough of that...

-- Chris Hooten

I agree, it was the intolerant part of the Feminist movement of yore that turned me and I'm sure a lot of people off to politics back when
Maybe it was intentional ? Maybe I was the intolerant one
Notice as the more the Fascists gained control, that the nonsense slowly disappeared
Sounds like a psy ops operation to me
(I love a good conspiracy)

Limpbaugh needed the viagra to reach the test cup. . .

Is the thread broken ?

OldTurk # 170

You are more than welcome for the info and the good wishes. You guys down there are WAY overdue for some justice to compensate for all the crap you've had to put up with for years.

The remedy should be swift and lethal, so once you have gained back your democracy, clap those two clowns in irons.......hell, you might as well include Rumsfeld and Rove also.......and set up some stocks or pillories on the Capital steps and let the partriots throw rotten tomatoes and eggs to their hearts content...lol..!!!

Gwn # 171

No problem, and thanks.....I learned something I didn't know, that is, we're not allowed to eat our ballots...lol..!!

Joan #118

Here's what's really twisted about that piece you linked to in raw story in which Bush complains that the Treasury's top secret program to monitor terrorist funding is being hurt by leftists:
Bush's youngest brother is the CEO of a famous bank in Washington that all the big shots use.
The Treasury Dept gave his bank "the biggest fine in banking history" when it found out they were laundering terrorist money!
I found this out a long time ago on Michael Moore's site.
You won't see that on MSM.

Florida Dave #24: My little brother who weighs 230 # and I who used to hang out with Jerry Quarry, (Jerry fought Norten, Ali, and Fraiser). As, Republicans, we came to meet you, at In an Out Burgers. But, you were not there. Well FLORIDA DAVE, my Bro and myself, couldn't resist telling you, that we are Citizens of the World.And we are Republicans for Progressive Democrats. And you sir: are a p.o.s. nuff said. by by