Good catch, Brad! You too, John!

It's way beyond my pay grade too, otherwise I might suggest a reason why it's not front-page material for NYT WaPo WSJ CSM TIME NEWSWEEK National Geographic Popular Mechanics or anything else except independent blog sites like this one ... what am I saying? there's nothing quite like this one! ... and in fact if someday I were ever to rise a few pay grades higher then I might be inclined to mention a few terms like coercion and conflict of interest ... but that's not for me, not now anyway ... at my pay grade I can hardly afford to pay attention!

Lordy Mercy!
It just keeps getting worse. Glad they'll re-consider the standards in 2009!
Their standards are exactly what the TN Election Coordinator, Brook Thompson, claims to lean on to make his decisions against VVPB...

my head hurts...

shw

Well,.. well,.. well.

Maybe we should all chip in,..

and buy this guy a roll of aluminum foil.

He can then fold himself a hat.

Too bad they did not come to this realization

pre-destruction of democracy,..

rather than after the fact.

Brad, I don't know if you have had the time to read all your posts or not, but you have got to read this article by Ronnie Dugger from 1988 (?) it'll make your hair curlier
Link

Does, anybody else but me think it's odd that they covered the voting machine problem on CNN just long enough to ask the question about whether or not you will boycott the next election ?
I mean its like, OK, we got 5% or whatever that are going to boycott, thats enough, now we can move on ?
Its like they have to figure that out too so they have an idea how much they have to fudge it in the next go round with purging, etc.
I don't trust them f*#kers as far as I can throw them, so I'm trying to think like a Fascist (if that could be possible)

We ought to start reporting on exactly WHO is responsible for this electronic voting machine mess we're in. Election officials? Who just ram these unsecure machines down our throats? Did they get kickbacks??? Money is ALWAYS involved in corruption.

I guess, in other words, I would like to know the origin of that boycott question

Floridiot #5 count me in as well. I also think it's odd how one day CNN is talking about "impeachment" and "democracy at risk" and the next day they can't seem to remember anything except the obviously suspicious "new" "bin Laden" audio tape and the obviously contrived "Bush publicity drive" ... you know if a guy were inclined to be a bit suspicious he almost might like to think somebody might have said: "Hey! Who signs your paycheck? Get back on message, you guys!" ... but of course we have no reason to be suspicious, do we?

Ya jus' gotta love this bit:

Quesenbery said there has always been a question whether the group was to be writing the best standards possible or writing standards that ensure existing machines will remain.

"And would VVSG 2005 end up disqualifying machines that had passed VVSG 2002 and, you know, it's pretty obvious the way those debates went," she added.

How do you say LOL and THAT'S NOT FUNNY! at the same time?

We'll just keep an eye on these buggers, WP
My suspiscions (sp,tired) be on full alert at all times from now on, my friend
I want to nail that IRI to the wall, as I think they are the root directory of all of this, just gotta figure it out

This part floored me, WP
So why haven't they been adopted?
Davidson of the EAC said she was aware of the study while writing the guidelines, but said it was ["discussed too late"] in the process for its recommendations to be included in the VVSG.
But TGDC meeting minutes show that NIST staffer John Kelsey, one of the Brennan Center study authors, presented results of the study to the committee in September 2005, ["three months before"] the VVSG was published.

Replace "clueless" with "willingly corrupt."
I used to think that they were clueless, but when I actually talked (or rather tried to talk to the local SOS) their response left no doubt in my mind that they are corrupt, and now that they have been TOLD they have problems about a zillion times and they still push the same crap, there is no doubt. These people will say anything and make up any excuse to delay, hide, and corrupt this situation.

I still don't see this issue on abc, cbs, nbc or fox. It's still a media blackout there.

As long as it remains a blackout, the people will never go "Ukranian" (to snatch a term I heard today.)

Brad's link shows that the reporter Hickens sets the correct standard. One we have been pointing out here for awhile:

Whitney Quesenbery, a member of the TGDC, warned that the credibility of the electoral process would be irreparably damaged if election officials were unable to disprove an allegation that a system had been hacked.

(Brad's Link, bold added).

Now that is the correct standard. The election officials have the burden to show good elections, we do not have the burden to show a bad one.

Once we establish a prima facie set of facts that give rise to a valid doubt, the election officials have to do more than let Diebold write their excuse script of one liners that say nothing.

Like in CA-50 we show they have violated the chain of custody, and they can not get by with saying "we have been doing it for 40 years". These defective Diebold election machines they used have only been around a short while, not 40 years.

No, they must make it right. Staying the wrong course does not get it anymore.

Phil #12

Yes, and even more than that:

"This week, the conservatives declared war.

Not on The New York Times. Not even on the media in general. No, this week the entire conservative movement --- from the White House to Republicans in Congress to Fox News to right-wing talk radio to conservative magazines --- declared war on the very idea of an independent press.

They declared war on the idea that journalists have not just the right but the obligation to hold those in power accountable for their actions. They declared war on the idea that journalists, not the government and not a political party, get to decide what appears in the press. They declared war on the idea that the public has a right to know what the government is doing in our name.

This is a profound threat to our democracy, and we underestimate it at our peril."

http://mediamatters.org/items/200607010004 (bold added)

On another site Rep. Ron Paul presents an essay titled "Why Are Americans So Angry?" He then proceeds to tell us why we're angry, which is just the sort of tone-deafness that makes a lot of people angry. One of the reasons he doesn't cite for public anger is the last two presidential elections. Not surprising.

I like Ron Paul. He's a Republican and he's from Texas, but I still like him. He's a libertarian who doesn't think we should be invading foreign countries with impunity, running up massive deficits to do so.

But Ron Paul is like most Congresspeople in that he's a terrible listener. He shows and tells, but doesn't watch or listen. To really know why people are angry, ASK THEM, DON'T TELL THEM!

Here are ten things that make me angry (maybe we should assemble a list for Ron Paul to peruse):

1] Stolen elections, which Congress won't deal with
2] Plutocratic government
3] Media that don't inform, only entertain and inflame
4] Having my patriotism questioned
5] Two-tier justice system favoring rich and powerful
6] Raw corporate power that swallows up competition
7] Fascists like Scalia on the Supreme Court
8] Our two-party system, Republicrats and Demublicans
9] Churches that use God as a political weapon
10] People who smile no matter what, including TV newscasters, Tom DeLay, and Hillary Clinton

Floridiot and all:
CNN is NOT done with the "Democracy At Risk" series. They have a list of voting machines issues to report on and they are just beginning to get into the list. Look for more in upcoming days. Remember, Lou Dobbs works so damn hard that he needs to have every Friday off and they don't run "Democracy at Risk" when Lou is not there. And other news preempts sometimes. Just be patient.

RLM #15

Good list. My fav is #2 ...

I can't list mine because Brad does not like really long posts and noone reads them anyway.

I'd read your list, Dredd, even if it were 100 items long.

If everybody prepared a list of grievances, and the Ron Pauls of this world were paying attention to why we're angry instead of writing essays that tell us why we are, we might be halfway to giving America back to what Lincoln meant by "...a government of the people, by the people, and for the people." Sounds corny, doesn't it?

Paul is a good guy, but he's part of that Washington establishment...marginally, one of the better cleaning men in a cesspool. When "Mr. Smith goes to Washington," he ceases to be Mr. Smith and becomes something else. He might be left-wing or right-wing, hawk or dove, fiscal conservative or spendthrift, but one thing is certain...Mr. Smith will know he's smarter than the people who sent him there, and won't let anyone forget it.

Robert,
Good list. I hope you sent it to Ron Paul. Re #10: I'd add Biden. That smile of his gives me chills (& I don't mean in a good way).

I am often at a loss as to what more I could/should do...some actions seem increasingly futile though I still do them, e.g. sign online petitions, email congresspeople; I cannot at this time donate much more.
The other day I snailmailed a rather long letter to twelve members of Congress & Al Gore. It was mostly about election fraud (with references to Bradblog), the media & impeachment, and also included a groveling appeal to Mr. Gore to run in '08.
I really have very little hope that any of them will even read it, let alone really listen.
Periodically I get close to despair. I'm getting to that point again. I have this vague image in my mind of a giant, carefully constructed theater set. It's darkly lit, ominous even. There is a carnival-like atmosphere but it is garish & slightly sinister, with lights, mucic, jugglers, magicians, masks, smoke & mirrors. There is a puppet-master, of course. His face is hidden, naturally. Not original, surely, but this is my mental picture now of our "democracy".

Some here do much to sustain what little hope I have left. Thank you for that.

I'd read your list too, Dredd.

Great post! RLM #15
and thanks to John for #16.

I don't mind when "other news preempts sometimes" but sometimes I get a bit snarky when pseudo-news preempts the real stuff!

I'm patient John, my gun is loaded and ready for bear

Joan, your fantasy sounds ominously like Wizard of Oz. Pretty apt, I'd say. In the real world, Karl Rove is the Wizard, all chickenhawks are Cowardly Lions, Ann Coulter is the Wicked Witch, Bush the scarecrow ("If I Only Had a Brain") and Cheney the Tin Man (any neo-con could substitute for him if his health didn't permit).

RLM #15 -

Great list, especially #10. He who smiles at everything truly smiles at nothing!

Joan -

I have the same dark presentiments, forebodings, except that they are "staged" not in a theater, but in the precious, fragile and threatened natural world. The skies here in the northeast over the past week have aptly borne this ominous undercurrent out, confirming that something wicked surely this way comes. Oh, I REALLY want to smile sincerely again!

For over a year I have felt and said President Bush will not leave at the end of his second term. "President For Life" declaration a possibility. A new scenario now presents itself for that possibility - a meltdown and total unreliability of the 2008 vote counts - and Bush declares he must continue as President until the outcome can be declared. Court battles could take years. Bush smiles and continues as President. Karl Rove is a genius, do you really think this group wants to ever give up its power? I will vote and not boycott. They will not have to steal my vote, I'm blue in a very red state. Peace.

Peg,
I'm in the southeast, and the skies here have been doing the same sort of foreboding, lots of thunder & rain. Do you know the expression "the dreadful has already happened"? Where is that from?

RLM,
Yes, it is kind of Oz-ish, and our georgie certainly fits the Scarecrow role to a 't'. "If I Only Had a Brain" could be his theme song. And I have no trouble seeing coulter on a broom. (Can we melt her now, please?)
I don't see cheney as the Tinman, though, despite the obvious heart problem. He may be bigger & darker than alot of them, but he's definitely one of the monkeys. Who do you think is Toto? Santorum, perhaps?
Damn, with a little thought, we could cast the whole thing!

Gut wrenching utterances coming from this crowd,..

The hope is that the prospects for democracy are

no wheres as bleak as we may sometimes surmise.

They will gladly snatch it from our grip if we do not

work in unison to offer meaningful resistance to this

coup d'etat/junta of creeping fascism.

Joan, not to be too perverted or anything
But if there was a part in the Oz story where a kook screws Toto, that part would be Santorums

Floridiot #21 said:

"I'm patient John, my gun is loaded and ready for bear"

"Elephants" please! And I think I speak for Grizzly too!

SAN-TOR-RECTUM

Oops - I maybe in the doghouse again.

CLOSE THEM TAGS !!!!!!

Joan #19

I also have that dreaded nightmare creep into my existence from time to time.

A trip back here to Bradblog and reading the comments of all the hopeful people and seeing that I am not alone is a big help.

The Gods have evidently spared me.

Hi Brad.

Winning hearts and minds,..

Traumatic Stress run amok ?

US Military - Rape/4 Counts of Murder

------------------

US Marine sings "Hadji Girl" a song of sexual attraction and murder,.. posted to - Youtube.

The song's lyrics include: "I grabbed her little sister and put her in front of me. As the bullets began to fly, the blood sprayed from between her eyes, and then I laughed maniacally. . .I blew those little f**kers to eternity . . .They should have known they were f**king with the Marines." Members of the audience, not shown in the video, laughed and cheered wildly for these lyrics.

US Marine/Youtube/song link

------------------

Islamic response to US Marine "Hadji Girl" song/link

-------------------

British media response to "Hadji Girl"
song

For myself, I will sleep easier once Katherine Harris gives it up. She CAN'T be that stupid. She knows something the rest of us don't know, like how to flip her own election. I'm secretly pulling for her, because that will be the tipping point, I think.

Bobby Kennedy Jr./Mike Papantonio just came on
Air America Radio,.. will be giving details of their
e-voting machine vendors litigation.

Helen Thomas on now,.. with them.

There are alot of sick things going on in Iraq & the Hadji Girl song is one of them. This is a surprise? To bush maybe. What do they expect? Oh right: they expected sweets & flowers.
It is a terrible, obscene irony that the people who chose to rain down death & destruction on a country that did nothing to us are incapable of understanding the horror they caused.

I was reading part of Anderson Cooper's commentary on New Orleans recently. To officials who were saying they understood how people there were "frustrated", Cooper said "People are not frustrated. People are DEAD".

Democracy Now (radio) discusses the Brennan Report,..
integrity (lack there of) e-voting machines.

Video Link/click watch

{ED NOTE: Comment deleted. Impersonating others' screen names is against BradBlog rules. --- 99}

{ED NOTE: As in #39 above. It wasn't FloridaDave. Thank you. --- 99}

So, this is a logical statement:

THE GOP COULD'VE STOLEN THE 2004 ELECTION.

Brad on Air America - coming up soon!

OT - Third aircraft found to be flying in restricted
air space of WTC on 9/11,.. not mentioned in the Commission Report,.. but media verified,..

What/Where/Who controls this plane ?

PDF and Video of third plane/WTC

Great imagery Joan. The imagery that gives me the creeps is the Crestor building. You know, the big white building with the elevator and weird music.

Three more people who always smile:
Jerry Falwell
William Crystal
Pat Robertson

Decayed human skulls seem to smile also. Wonder if there's any correlation there.

Sorry, I'm in a real dark mood after reading the lyrics to "Hadji Girl". Fuck You! Jerry, William, and Pat! Laugh it up!

Wow, the good news is that "Crestor" made it though the filter without incident!

Let's try Oxycontin

For Florida Dave: Would you mind putting #39 into English, so we can all understand it? Thanks.

RLM #46

I think FloridaDave, #39, may be a turing machine with a virus.

re: FloridaDave and the mess he posted here: as far as I can tell he copied and pasted a big honkin' quote at #39 and then posted a link to it at #40. Why? To waste our time and divert the discussion... and look at how well it has worked!

How many of us have read that mess? Or even part of it? What a waste!!

If it were up to me, all OT posts from trolls and/or virus-infested troll-simulators would be candidates for deletion, and the people who post such stuff would be candidates for banning. But it's not up to me.

In my humble opinion, the best thing we can do is to ignore posts like that one, and posters like this one. It's not that hard to look at the name at the top of a comment before you read it, and it's not hard to scroll down to the beginning of the next comment if you can tell that the current one will not be worth reading.

Another idea that comes to mind would be for somebody to post --- and for others to sign --- a short open letter to Brad running roughly along these lines:

Dear Brad,

We've got so much important work to do here.

It's easy to see how hard you work and how important you consider the work you do. And most of the people who post here clearly agree with you about that, and appreciate what you are doing, and are trying to help you.

But it's also easy to see that certain others post here for no other reason than to make things more difficult for the rest of us, in all sorts of different ways. Can these people please be shown the door?

I'm not sure how Brad would respond, and after all: it's his blog, so it's his call. But it's an idea.

How do you like my idea?

Re #49 WP,
"...Can these people please be shown the door?..."
I'll sign on to that. But, as you say, it's Brad's call.

I did read alot of FD's missive (madly long) & these are my thoughts:
1. If it were legitimate, Bradblog seems an odd choice for dissemination, not to mention
2. O.T. on this thread
3. The name (FD) was a red flag; don't know if it's the same guy but it sure reads like disinfo to me
4. Alot of it sounds plausible enough, but some of it reads like science fiction
5. FD is sharing meds with rush, perhaps?
6. 'Nuff said

Onward . . . In retrospect. . . . . What came first the chicken or the egg, Brad or Bobby ? ? ?

Of course I agree with you, Winter Patriot. They should be banned, like investigative journalism like Brad's is being banned from the MSM (but catching on, slowly but surely). Like WE would be banned from Limboob, Handjobbity, and O'LIEly. Just get rid of the rats with D-CON (ban them). Why are they here? To spread lies and misinformation, like the big trolls in the MSM: Novak, Brooks, all their "fake" think tanks financed by rightwing southern millionaires $$$, etc... The multi-decade plan since Nixon (get "The Republican Noise Machine" by David Brock). Get rid of the disruptions to Brad's agenda. This isn't the NYTimes, WaPo, PBS...it's a private blog of truth.

Mr. Mills: I like Ron Paul, too, but your statements are correct. But he is a real conservative. He hates Bushco.

WP: There's a difference between a shill and someone disagreeing with a dissenting opinion. A big difference. For example, Mr. Mills disagreeing with Ron Paul is legit. Someone posting lies and misinformation is different. Their agenda is to destroy, ruin, disrupt truthful news that doesn't fit their agenda.

Big Dan #51 and #53

There's a difference between a shill and someone disagreeing with a dissenting opinion. A big difference. For example, Mr. Mills disagreeing with Ron Paul is legit.

I agree completely. I think you and I had a disagreement one time, didn't we? Or if not, we probably will have one soon. But we'll do it in a civilized manner and we'll both probably learn something. No big deal, right? This is how we learn, isn't it?

I disagree with Brad sometimes, and I disagree with Dredd sometimes, and I even disagree with Mr. Mills on occasion, and I think that's probably ok with all of us --- I think we are all a lot better off because we have free and open discussion here.

And in this case I'm not even talking about lies and disinformation ... I think some people seriously believe the lies and the disinformation that they're being fed. And if they come along posting lies and disinfo, as long as they are asking questions and carrying on a civil discussion with the others, they are welcome to stay for as long as they like. Even if they never learn a damned thing here. MHO of course but you are invited to share it.

I don't even mind when somebody acts a bit ... how shall we say ... ignorant ... during the discussion that goes on here. Sometimes it makes for a good laugh and some good education, as we can see in this thread, where John and Joan have posted some of what our poor sad friend Doug had been missing. See that? No problem! Well done, John and Joan. Pay attention here, Doug, and you might learn something.

But what I am talking about here is a deliberate attempt to derail the discussion. "Florida Dave" has a long history of doing that, and he's done so again here, in a big way, and that's why I mentioned it.

But that's enough from me. I think I've already said more than my share on this issue. And, as we all seem to agree, it's Brad's call.

I also don't like when posters ramble on incoherently. It makes everyone else look like kooks upon a cursory examination of discussion threads. If 90% of the discussions are ranting madmen, many people might not read the important 10%. If it gets that bad with trolls and such, I would support booting the worst offenders, but only if it got completely out of control. You are in a catch-22 about responding to trolls, etc. If you respond to each, you waste your time, and discussion bandwidth. If you ignore them completely, someone reading some of that crap might wonder why there is no dissenting view on it. If you ban the offending party it smacks of censorship.

What to do, what to do...

It seems many of the trolls are here for purposes other than just getting attention, and as such should be treated differently.

-- Chris Hooten

Phil: I liked your post, #12 (seriously)

Court TV - Catherine Crier Live,.. addresses the issue of election improprieties and how they are subverting our democracy.

Catherine Crier says on the Crier Wire commentary
segment,...

"E-voting threatens to turn our democracy into
little more than a Banana Republic."

An encouraging example of detailed journalism,..
2000 - Katherine Harris fiasco Florida
2004 - Ken Blackwell fiasco Ohio
The farce of computer voting.

The video clip for this broadcast is available here,..
Click this link
to
Past Clips
to
6/21/06 - Defending Democracy

LINK to Crier Video

It is nice to see that Brad's voice is no longer a lone voice in the wilderness. Hopefully his hard work will produce meaningful results to cleanup this mess
prior to November 2006.

I must admit that I was also led astray by FD's post. The context of his link made me wonder why he had posted it if it is the same FD we have come to know.
I read a bunch of it then started skimming trying to find the "meat" of the article. I came away, giving up about half way through, never finding it and thinking that the author was way too verbose to reach the audience that needs to hear the message which seemed to be developing.

A waste of time.

BB2 - (C) # 57

-------------------

About FD - (C) # 39 & # 40

Most of what you see about 9/11 involves the mechanics of the jets crashing into the WTC and Pentagon.

This post details the financial components of 9/11.
The perspective of Richard Andrew Grove,.. although
incredibly verbose,.. I found interesting. He claims to be an insider,.. the whys/wherefores of the
financials and the motivations of the players as he explains them,.. from what I know,.. seems 75 to 80% accurate,.. the remainder I would have to research.

The spider web of the monetary implications of 9/11
will eventually have to be untangled and understood
so the players and perpetrators of this horrendous act
can eventually be brought to justice. The history books
will indicate we were idiots to be duped by the explanation we have thus far been given. The real culprits can not be allowed to walk away in glee.

The financial angle of 9/11,.. it seems Mr. Grove has
assembled many pieces of that puzzle. It just takes patience to dig thru the incredible mountain of vowels and consonants,... to get to the meat and details of the issue.

The greed for money and political power likely brought 9/11 to our doorstep. Election fraud seems driven by like motivations. Solve one riddle,.. and you are likely on your way to have solved the other. These events seem to run paralel like railroad tracks,..
same run away train ,.. not one wreck,.. but two.

How could they hate America to this degree ?

Old Turk, Everyone

Sorry, 39 & 40 have been deleted because someone was impersonating Florida Dave. The rule is one commenter, one screen name... sorta like one man, one vote. So I apologize if the thread is now confused by this discussion. --- 99

Agent 99 # 59

Re: posts #'s 39 & 40

Don't you just wish folks like that would get a life instead of trying to wreak havoc everywhere they go.

Hope those deletions are a lesson to anyone with the same intentions..!! And the message to them is..... It's impossible to fool these folks here. They're a savvy bunch of sages, so go waste your time someplace else

I think the best antidote for trolls is to hold their postings up to ridicule. Hitler rose to power in Germany because people were afraid to challenge him, but Charlie Chaplin mocked him in "The Great Dictator" and single-handledly punctured his public image for millions of people.

My take on most trolls is that they enjoy the feeling of being provocative and disruptive. They're like the beer-guzzling bozos in the stands who yell insults at players on the ball field; you can't argue with them, and you shouldn't try, but you can make them look like fools to one another.

Except that this so successfully turns the thread off its natural flow. Witness the first 38 comments on this thread.

Don't hold me to this, but I don't think it's possible to embarrass a troll! Their trolltude is embarrassing as hell. That doesn't seem to get in their way. We've seen they're not embarrassed by frank illiteracy, and vast numbers of typos... etc.

I mean * is a troll, repeatedly embarrassed.... They should not be able to get him out from under the desk in the Oval Office.