READER COMMENTS ON
"Heading Down to DemocracyFest!"
(24 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
said on 7/13/2006 @ 10:11 pm PT...
When you meet the Deaniacs down there tell em Subway said Hi
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
said on 7/13/2006 @ 10:44 pm PT...
I really dig the name "Subway Serenade".
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
said on 7/13/2006 @ 11:46 pm PT...
Brad, Hope you have a good time. Sounds like a big crowd. Progress. Al Franken took the "We won't talk about/9 mention election fraud, might scare away voters democratic pledge." Has to come around because of the media interest. I'm glad. He was a big fan of Paul Wellstone. That's goodness. Hope one day to find out why the dems. took the pledge.
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 12:05 am PT...
So sad, can't make it, must work, but give 'em hell, Brad!
On the odd chance you see tbogg down there, tell him I said "Hey".
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 3:17 am PT...
The way I see it, everything is going to hell.
Brad, and Debra Bowen, you are the last hope we got.
I still don't see this issue being raised on abc, cbs, nbc, or fox.
My patience is worn. I am just a stupid music show. But this crap is killing me. It's just enough to tip me over the top with all the other crap I do.
I want to go back to the OLD UNITED STATES, I want to have FUN making music, and shows. I don't want this world destroyed, my country destroyed by these..F-ing bastards and bitches. I want the constitution restored and the corruption stopped. (even if they avoid jail cells) I want the snooping to stop, I want these fscking electronic machines destroyed. This is a NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUE. INTERNALLY THE USA IS BEING EATEN UP ALIVE
I am running out of energy. I don't sleep, I am in pain in my neck, and I am really sick of this. Nothing kills the pain. NOTHING
I am sick of the spin, the lies, the torture, the just god damn everything I was taught about the United States as a child and swore an oath to protect. And when I joined the Military as an adult, all being twisted and fast tracked and name changed, and over and over and over the same old crap, these vampires have to stop this shit.
Public Access is about to disappear, so what if my show disappears. But what about (PEG) TV? don't look to abc, cbs, nbc, pbs, or fox to tell you about e-voting national security nightmares. I tried several times, I am not a JOURNALIST. OR A LAWYER. I FIX THINGS. when your fuse blows I r2 it. I solder, I code, I write (somewhat sloppy) I admin, I sysadmin, I hack, I crack, I help people for FREE GOD DAMN IT!!!!!!!!!!
Time is running out. Less that four months.
Where is the god damn DNC, DLC or DCCC or whatever the hell it is? I haven't heard a GOD DAMN WORD. Just John Kerry Ranting. All you people need to be whacked with a cluestick.
Maybe I should just become evil like them?
rape, pillage, maime, ww3, apocololypse
I ain't christian. I had tolerance for all religions, but I am loosing it. I am loosing it. I am loosing it.
And a little FYI wake up call for those christians out there... BUSH ain't a christian.
At least I TELL YOU I PRACTICE THE CRAFT. Jesus would love me more than BUSH!
This shit stops now.
Or these corrupt corporate globalists are going to start ww3.
I am getting to the point where this will be one of the last times I post here. I reveal to much,
I AM STICKING MY HEAD OUT FOR YOU!
I AM A TARGET.
Fix this fucking problem or have them come grab my ass up and put a 45 acp to my head and end this!
I can't take it. I rather start fighting.
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 3:34 am PT...
I hope you take comfort in the fact that we are all in this together.
We are all fighting the corruption of our nation so that your pain at the way it is going is what many feel.
Congratulations for caring ... that is priceless ... and appreciated ... and it is for sure that all hope is not lost. Today.
Take a little comfort at that today ... it is real today ... and remember it is our fate to return and drink from the water over and over ... one drink does not satisfy our thirst for all time ... drink often from the realization that many people want you free of pain and discomfort, and spend their entire lives toward that end.
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 3:47 am PT...
I do not want others to FEEL my pain.
I just want this country back on track.
I joined the military (USAF) for patriotic reasons.
That was a waste.
Just like my time at the ballot box.
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 3:50 am PT...
The answer to the question I asked earlier.
Q: is steamrolling a diebold or other electronic voting machine a felony or protecting the constitution against the domestic enemies?
It's upholding your oath to protect the constitution.
As far as protecting the president, they got those secret service for that now.
WAKE UP! WAKE UP!
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 3:52 am PT...
The reality is they'd lock me up for smashing three diebold machines for life.
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 4:08 am PT...
i'd rather be shot. with that 45 acp to be sure!
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 7/14/2006 @ 5:20 am PT...
Greg Palast has a new piece out. It vividly contrasts the response by Lopez-Obrador to his "defeat" in Mexico with the passivity of Gore and Kerry.
Palast suggests that if Gore had been shot in cold blood and lay gravely wounded, and a cop asked him, "Who shot you?" Gore would have responded, "There might come a time for me to comment on that, but not now." Palast's basic thesis is that Democrats aren't democratic, but part of a bi-partisan establishment that values money and power over the will of the people.
Amen to that. Anyone who has received demands for money from Democrats recently knows it's true. And hear no evil, speak no evil about election fraud.
Today's New York Times has two articles (inside page) about the Mexican election aftermath. They're fairly balanced, but lean toward Calderon's theme, that Lopez-Obrador is sowing seeds of doubt which will hurt the country. The articles fail to mention exit polls which favored Lopez-Obrador. They also don't relate the Mexican elections to our last two. But Palast's piece argues that the disposal of valid ballots and disenfranchisement of voters in Mexico followed a pattern identical to what happened here in 2000 and 2004.
Godspeed, Brad. And Godspeed to Debra Bowen and others in San Diego who are in the fight with you. San Diego is a stone's throw from the Mexican border; hopefully a gentle wind of democracy will cross over and guide your efforts.
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 6:51 am PT...
I have been doing some research into the reason people bash those who have had elections stolen from them. It is an interesting trip, which is basically defined in broad terms as victim blaming:
Victim-blaming consists of holding victims of crimes or other misfortunes wholly or partly responsible for what has happened to them.
(link here). What I find probably the most interesting aspect of this issue is that it is world view based:
We talked about the role of victims in the legal process in my "Law and Psychology" class.
The professor who teaches the psychology part of the class made an important point - the idea that neither our Constitution nor the makeup of our legal process in general has any real provisions for the rights of the victims ...
There are two extreme attitudes, he continued. One is basically that the world is a good place, and people are in general good inside, and that in the end, everyone will get his just desserts.
The second extreme is that the world is basically an amoral pinball machine. And the first kind, ironically, is going to be much more lenient on the defendants and will tend to blame the victims for the crime. There are several reasons for that, with which we came up.
1) Such individuals are in denial and refuse to believe that bad things can happen to good people.
2) These individuals prefer to believe that we have control over our own lives, and therefore what happens to us is a direct or indirect consequence of our own actions.
3) Finally, they don't want to face the possibility of unmotivated crimes, because it would render some aspects of our existence rather senseless.
In gangs this plays out quite transparently. If a gang member is "dissed" he is watched very, very closely to see how he responds. The response of the individual is everything. The victim who was dissed will be condemned if the response does not meet the criteria for that gang.
It matters not what the perpetrator did if the gang member does not respond in accord with gang ideology.
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 6:57 am PT...
Even victims of horrible murders are blamed by the MSM sometimes (link here).
Fat and round little dems who are a lot like hobbits are blamed for not being orks sometimes.
Not everyone can be an ork.
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 7:11 am PT...
Brad, when you are down there feasting like a hobbit at "second breakfy" (breakfast) during Democracy Fest, ask some of the hobbits and also orks what a victim of a stolen election should do.
Then ask them if their world view is the 'just world hypothesis' or let me modify it to the 'just nation hypothesis'.
Then see if this holds up:
"The relationship between goodness and happiness, between wickedness and punishment is so strong that given one of these conditions, the other is frequently assumed. Misfortune, sickness, accident are often taken as signs of badness and guilt. If one is unfortunate, then he has committed a sin." (Heider, 1958, p.235).
(link here). I think world view and nation view are relevant.
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 8:17 am PT...
While you are down there, ask your "friends" Debra Bowen and Francine Busby why we have not seen THEIR words here and in public demanding that we JUST COUNT THE VOTES in San Diego. Why haven't we seen Debra Bowen standing outside the office of Mr. Haas each and every day shouting COUNT THE VOTES.
After all, what higher calling could a potential Secretary of State have than demanding that an election be carried to its conclusion according to the law.
And please, don't tell me Debra is running for Secretary of State and doesn't have $6,000 in the bank to pay for the count in CA-50. What a massive PR coup that would have been. "As a future Secretary of State I would never want to think that an election wouldn't be fairly conclused simply for a lack of MONEY."
Ask your "friends" that, please, and report back to us, because personally, I think the country is getting screwed by your "friends" and their "saving their powder" or "not wanting to look like tin-foil-hat wearing nutjobs."
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 10:31 am PT...
There's a lot of pain and a lot of solidarity expressed in this thread, and I just want to say that I experience the former acutely and constantly, and I join in the latter with a will. WE and our CONSCIOUSNESS are what alone can save this country and this world. We CAN'T succumb to despair, because by doing so we put the brakes on any forward momentum.
Brad knows this and keeps going (and going and going...) despite fatigue and the uncertainty of the outcome. Blessings upon him - and upon all you other great and steadfast souls!
Good luck down there in SD, Brad.
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 11:33 am PT...
Are you getting mad at Brad? Did ya go for that power walk, blast yer speakers for a couple hours, work off the rage and frustration enough to be able to be constructive again? Charlie! We need you. Breathe!
Thank you for that beautiful statement. I hope Charlie is reading.
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 7/14/2006 @ 1:58 pm PT...
For Dredd: I take it from your postings about victims (#12, #13) that you feel people have been blaming Democrats for what Republicans did. That's consistent with other postings you've made.
If I'm characterizing your argument correctly, the question follows: "Who has been the real victim of Republican fraud?" Has it been Democrats? I'd argue that the 2000 and 2004 elections were stolen from us... you, me, and everyone else here, regardless of party affiliation.
John Kerry conceded because "...there weren't enough provisional ballots to change the outcome." Whether he was right or wrong about that mathematically, the far larger issue is whether he should have conceded any election where evidence existed of organized fraud. Kerry wanted it to be about HIM, not US. He thought he was the victim (and thus had the right to play that role or not, choosing not to). In reality WE were the victims of the fraud, and WE were denied the opportunity to right a wrong.
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 4:53 pm PT...
"He thought he was the victim (and thus had the right to play that role or not, choosing not to). In reality WE were the victims of the fraud, and WE were denied the opportunity to right a wrong."
I like that!
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 5:33 pm PT...
Charlie L #15
I think a lot of your view on the subject of your post is caused by:
1) a mistaken view that 'brick and mortar' protests are the only way to protest.
2) blog protest is therefore ineffective
That is why I disagree with the attitude of your approach.
Essentially you have concluded that our protests here on brad blog are ineffective, and therefore since we are not in front of the office of Haas we are doing nothing.
World famous litigators who just filed a major lawsuit that will probably bring down some EVM makers testified in public that in fact brad blog and black box voting, et al, are in fact are THE ONLY REASON that this issue is still alive.
So wake up, pick up a paddle, and start paddling so this canoe gets up river to some other places that need the news.
This is hi tech bro ...
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 5:54 pm PT...
If I'm characterizing your argument correctly, the question follows: "Who has been the real victim of Republican fraud?"
I won't say your characterisation is wrong, I'll say it is incomplete.
The issue is election wrongs. And therefore it covers the entire scope of election law and procedure, which includes the subject of voting and counting votes.
The evidence is clear that a human named Shawn Southworth has certified each and every EVM in a nation of some 300 million people, by filling out the forms and signing off.
This even as the company "doing the certification" changed, and changed, and changed over the time this has been happening.
Yep, Ciber, Wyle, Systest, etc. etc. ad nauseum, may come and may go, but the one, the only, the spectacular Shawn Southworth never changes in the EVM saga. The one man all votes saga of republican Shawn Southworth.
Yep, republicans own the EVM makers, and Shawn too. They own the certifier, the decider. Down in Huntsville town.
So if the republicans produced, directed, and were the stars in this movie ... don't they get some "credit"?
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 6:35 pm PT...
John Kerry conceded because "…there weren't enough provisional ballots to change the outcome."
Ok. That sounds to me like he considered the process to have been above board, and his strategy was a bottom line approach.
You went on to 'say':
Whether he was right or wrong about that mathematically, the far larger issue is whether he should have conceded any election where evidence existed of organized fraud.
Wow you are using scope words like organized fraud. Look, be fair, there was no evidence of organized election fraud at the time. Cacaphony yes. Incompetence yes. There was evidence of election irregularities.
And even today, years later, no court has held the election to have been done in an atmosphere of organized fraud. That does mean something. You went on to say:
Kerry wanted it to be about HIM, not US. He thought he was the victim (and thus had the right to play that role or not, choosing not to).
You are still conflicted I see. You are very incorrect to say Kerry thought he was a victim. He DID NOT. He thought he lost fair and square.
And then you said:
In reality WE were the victims of the fraud, and WE were denied the opportunity to right a wrong.
Bullshit, fraud is a special tort. There were lawsuits galore against Blackwell. You did not mention him.
You could have sued Blackwell ... if you had standing. And if you did not have standing then it was not yours. How did you have legal standing in that Ohio election?
I suggest that you contemplate the logical fallacy "begging the question" (link here) because from all indicators Kerry always thought, at the time, that Bush got more electoral college votes than Kerry did.
But the final reality is that only the congress can say either way. It was brought up in congress by dems for only about the second time in history. All republicans voted one way and that cinched the results. And no court after that day can change those results.
Presidential elections are like that. Mid term elections like November are not.
Lets shake our fix on the rear view mirror, and look out the windshield, cause November (2006) is fast approaching.
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 7/15/2006 @ 11:23 am PT...
Dredd, we simply disagree on what happened in Ohio. Kerry has never said or implied that he thought he lost fair and square. I don't know where you got that idea from. Kerry said, "There aren't enough provisional ballots to make the difference." He chose to ignore everything else...the 800-number that wouldn't stop ringing (57,000 phoned complaints in the first 48 hours don't suggest mere "irregularities"). The Warren County lockdown, the long lines in Democratic precincts created by underallocation of machines, the all-day vote flipping in Youngstown, the machines that sat idle in a warehouse even as local precincts were begging for more,
I'm a fair person, and I maintain that there was PLENTY OF EVIDENCE of organized fraud in Ohio. It started before the election, with Blackwell trying mightily to disenfranchise voters (and succeeding). At least one court scolded him for it, before Election Day. Kerry said he had more than a hundred lawyers on the ground there, ready for trouble...not for a few irregularities or for cacophony.
I'm not the least bit conflicted about the 2004 election. Not even a tiny bit. I saw vote flipping and underallocation of machines myself as a pollwatcher in Florida. I know it happened, and I maintain that John Kerry expected it to happen, too (hence his army of lawyers on hand in advance). He knew the exit polls had been in his favor, he knew complaints were coming in by the thousands from all over the country about one variety of fraud or another, and he knew he was the rightful winner.
Yet he conceded. And by so doing he avoided being called a "sore loser" and kept his options open for 2008. We were the real losers, and not merely because Bush stayed in the White House, bad as that has been. We were the losers because democracy was trashed, and Republicans now know they can lie, steal, and cheat and Democrats won't call them on any of it.
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 1:00 pm PT...
My point is designed to guide the missle of anger to the right place ... the right wing.
Not toward Kerry or whomever it happens to next.
My whole point is to not waste the energy, but instead to direct it to the real target.
It is so serious that all the energy we have, if it hits perfectly, will not guarantee victory.
And if much of it is misdirected toward the victims, including everyday Americans, there will not be enough left to get it to the perpetrators.
Focus ... that is what it is about ... like when we used to see what light could do if focused by a magnifying glass ... there has to be focus for a fire to start.
I mean, I can't fault the man who quit because his children had been threatened (link here).
But I am not stopping.