READER COMMENTS ON
"BREAKING: Donzella James Contesting GA Primary!! Lawsuit Calls Results 'Meaningless' Because There's No Paper Trail, No Audit System"
(55 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
said on 8/6/2006 @ 12:36 am PT...
Oh! Excellent! Let's bang our pots with wooden spoons!
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 8/6/2006 @ 2:47 am PT...
The publicity is welcome, but that might be the only positive to come out of this. We're talking about Georgia, remember...where they arrested the wrong guy at the Olympics in 1996, where the 2002 Senate election was a fraud, where an investigation of Ray Lemme's murder in 2003 was aborted at the request of the same people in Florida he'd been investigating (duh), and where a Democrat Senator became the idiot Bush's strongest supporter at the 2004 convention. Ms. James is going to have to be very lucky to prevail.
Sorry if any Georgians are insulted. But remember, if you all move somewhere else, the state will eventually lose electoral votes. That can only be good.
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
said on 8/6/2006 @ 2:53 am PT...
Don't forget NEWT GINGRICH, Mr. Mills.
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
said on 8/6/2006 @ 3:28 am PT...
Marty Kaplan's hacking instructions for the Diebold machines used in Georgia. Good visual aid for trial.
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
said on 8/6/2006 @ 5:10 am PT...
The important thing about this case (since no one provided a link to the complaint, court, or anything else) is that it challenges non-paper trail elections as being invalid for that reason: no evidence from which to make a sound decision.
That is a fundamental need. To stop such madness in its tracks.
However, like RLM in post #2, I would also doubt the wisdom of bringing it in a Georgia state court.
The issue of the legality of no-paper-trail electronic voting machines is a fundamental issue that seems to me to have merit, and therefore needs to be litigated in a forum that will give wide application to the decision ... certainly beyond Georgia in scope.
If litigated in the federal courts, instead of the state courts, it would be heard by the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals, and could have applicability in Georgia, Alabama, and Florida (if the US Supreme Court declined to hear it).
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 8/6/2006 @ 5:21 am PT...
For Agent 99: I did leave out Newt Gingrich, and shouldn't have. Thanks for the reminder.
I also left out all those intellectual folks who greet visitors to Georgia with the neo-grammatical question, "How 'bout them 'Dogs?" In case anyone thinks these are breeders of canines speaking, they're actually supporters of the University of Georgia football team, whose nickname is "Bulldogs." Whether one actually graduated from the school or not doesn't seem to matter...it's cool to talk that way in Jawja.
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
said on 8/6/2006 @ 5:41 am PT...
This thread about this case may be a good time to point out the general ignorance of Americans when it comes to understanding their government.
People do not get it:
The American people have "a great misunderstanding" of how the judiciary works and how judges make decisions, said Ken Starr, the former White House independent counsel, at a meeting of the American Bar Association on Saturday.
Starr, moderating a panel of judges from across the country, cited a poll by the bar association in which about half the respondents couldn't identify the three branches of government.
(link here, bold added). If they do not know about the three branches of government, they are dangerously ignorant.
That explains the 30% that think Cheney is a rock star (link here).
Is that ignorance transferred to the local level where this case is being heard, where it is claimed about the court:
Superior court judges are elected to four-year terms in nonpartisan, circuit-wide races.
(link here, bold added). So we are to believe that the elections are nonpartisan, meaning there is no "R" or "D" associated with the judges name, standing, leanings, or background?
Who ya gonna believe?
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
said on 8/6/2006 @ 7:47 am PT...
The lawsuit can be found here
The lawsuit is listed in full detail here:
I beg to differ RE: georgia. Yes we have Zell Miller as an idiot. We even have Cathy Cox as the Democrat that pushed these machines on us. But to GA's credit we did 2 things on election day. 1. We DID NOT VOTE for Cathy cox for governor, Mark Taylor won the Democratic primary and 2. We voted in a landslide for Casey Cagle and Ralph Reed was kicked to the curb.
If GA was in a coma for a while, I agree, but we are waking from that coma.
And I would offer up that Georgia election fraud activists, were the source of some of the greatest and most heavy hitting results in the entire election fraud movement. the Rob-GA patch being the source of the California $2.6M alameda case against diebold for lack of security came from some very hard working GA activists. I would also say this lawsuit is diff. from any that went before because it is backed up with legal evidence gathered over 2 years.
I will not accept any poster who things this is a wasted effort. Having a candidate challenge her election is nothing more than brilliant 'we're sick and tired and we're not gonna take it anymore' kind of revolution and activism that all candidates should be doing. It's time we start saying 'it's illegal and we know it's illegal and someone is going to jail over it.'
watch our state closely. there are many things happening behind the scenes that involve grassroots, legal, legislative and even 2 of the current SOS candidates, 1 repbulican (Karen Handel) and 1 Democrat (Darryl Hicks) committed to not only paper trails but making sure Diebold is investigated thoroughly when they take office. All I can say is November will be D-Day for Diebold. Dead day.... kaput.. bye bye.... see ya!!!
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
said on 8/6/2006 @ 8:10 am PT...
RIGHT ON! Phyllis:
it's illegal and we know it's illegal and someone is going to jail over it.
it's illegal and we know it's illegal and someone is going to jail over it.
it's illegal and we know it's illegal and someone is going to jail over it.
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
said on 8/6/2006 @ 9:12 am PT...
Hurray for honesty and common sense!!!
Thank you, Phyllis, for posting this rebuttal. And thank you, WP, for bringing this lawsuit to our attention.
Fight on, Georgia! You have many other Americans behind you!
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
said on 8/6/2006 @ 9:15 am PT...
WP, I was glad to see your comparison to the Kerry/Edwards 2004 campaign in terms of willingness to fight for the rights of voters to have their votes counted without regard for statistical calculations of possibility of winning.
I would like to request that the comparisons be made to the "Kerry 2004 decision" and exclude Edwards. From what has been recently revealed, he was fighting hard against Kerry and his advisors over the decision to abandon Ohio, and I think that had his wife not been ill, he would have kept at it.
I believe that Kerry should be eliminated from further national election consideration, but don't believe that Edwards need be.
Just a small thing.
This Georgia case is GREAT news.
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
said on 8/6/2006 @ 9:36 am PT...
Charlie: The passage you mention (re: Kerry/Edwards) was quoted from the APN article. Regardless of how you or I would like to see it phrased, that's how it was written.
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 8/6/2006 @ 9:37 am PT...
For Phyllis: Hope you're right. Thanks for the optimistic slant.
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
said on 8/6/2006 @ 9:55 am PT...
For those who think a victory in 1 county in Georgia is as big as a victory in three states ... think again.
Filing a lawsuit in a county court instead of in a federal district court is not a tactical bragging point for any state or litigant wanting to help as many folk as possible.
And evading that point with straw man arguments adds what to the real issue?
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
said on 8/6/2006 @ 10:26 am PT...
I love Georgia. I surfed there years ago, and checked the surf out with my son a couple of years ago.
Your "link to the lawsuit" was a link to a discussion of some of the causes of actions, or counts as some like to call them.
The link to the text of the complaint (not "lawsuit") is here and is as I suspected limited to Georgia, Fulton County, jurisdiction, and it states:
This case arises under the Constitution and the laws of the State of Georgia
(ibid). That is my quarrel as I mentioned in my post #7.
It could have said that use of one type of machine in one county or district and another type in another county or district, violates the equal application of laws under federal law.
Had it been filed in the federal court and brought, also under the Constitution and laws of the United States, and had prevailed up to the 11th Circuit, it would have been the law in Florida, Georgia, and Alabama.
All with about the same amount of energy and time.
Think bigger is what I was suggesting ... help others ... don't think only locally and about self only.
We had a lawyer on here a while back that had done the same in Tennessee, and was relying heavily on the 6th Circuit Decision out of Ohio that had held that different machines and/or practices in various counties did violate the federal equal protection of laws principle in the US Constitution.
I cautioned him to wait until the issue of a rehearing en banc had been resolved. And sure enough the 6th circuit vacated the panel decision, and a rehearing en banc is pending. Which will most likely reverse the panel decision.
Which means that once again we have no decision that says different machines and/or practices in different counties and/or districts is a violation of equal application of law.
This suit we speak of could have carried the ball.
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
said on 8/6/2006 @ 10:43 am PT...
#6 Robert Lockwood Mills
Phyllis #8 Thank you for the outstanding rebuttal of #6.
I'm still about half asleep and now mad as hell so I probably should pound down some coffee prior to adding my two cents, but I just can't wait. I am sick and goddamned tired of intellectual snobs assuming that anyone born in the south is mentally lacking. Oh and did I mention we all talk funny. During my adult life I have been blessed by the fact that my line of work has compelled me to travel from one end of this nation to the other. Have I had problems communicating with the "locals"? Why yes at times I have. The good folks of Boston and Brooklyn always had difficulty with my lack of verbal skills. I could bore "ya'll" with other locales where my obvious incest related cognitive problems were manifested but I think most of you get my drift. One thing I did share with many people was the understanding of certain words and concepts within our root language. Take the word Progressive and related concepts, Pro-Education,Labor,Choice.........You get it yet you snotnosed asshole. Now that I'm awake would ya'll scuse me. I need to go slop the hawgs and have sex with my sister.
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
said on 8/6/2006 @ 10:56 am PT...
I used to tell this joke when people began to tell jokes about the south:
Hey, I am from [state x].
Question: Why do people from [state x] marry first cousins?
Usual blushy response: I don't know.
My Answer: Because they can't find any close relatives to marry.
When they recognized that I was not vulnerable to those types of jokes, they shut down.
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
said on 8/6/2006 @ 11:12 am PT...
Dredd, thanks for the comment. I have used similar methods of communication myself. In this case I choose not too. If we don't pull together we are lost. Attempted exclusion of people based upon broad assumptions pisses me off.
Agent 99, I'm on the road so could you lend me a spoon and a pot?
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
said on 8/6/2006 @ 11:48 am PT...
Just made the mistake of watching the news. These are dark times. I'm sick and scared. We must take this country back, one congressional district at a time. The efforts of toil and sweat that this site and others have expended shame me. We must prevail in November.
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
said on 8/6/2006 @ 12:52 pm PT...
Phyllis from Georgia,..
Thank you for your work/endeavours/energies to restore
democracy to our political systems. It was quite obvious the right-wingers there in Georgia were determined to subvert democracy from a multitudes of ways/directions.
The hard work you folks have done down there to beat
back this creeping Christo-Fascism has been nothing
short of amazing and encouraging. We at this blog are
well acquainted with the many methods that have been and will continue to be used to subvert our cherished democracy. As election day November 2006 quickly approaches the level of exasperation/fear as we watch the hijacking of our political systems and the trashing of our democracy often becomes overwhelming.
Here's to hoping we will all work together in unison,.. share our intellectual abilities and ideas,.. show respect/understanding and patience for the efforts
of one another,.. only then can we put the issues of creeping fascism to rest.
Welcome to this blog,.. the accomplishments made in the political spheres down there in Georgia are celebrated by one and all. Our goals have yet been only half realized,.. we must win this political tug of war. Your input is and continues to be appreciated. We welcome you to the battle to preserve our democracy. The positive energy and unselfish individual contributions found at this blog,.. can not help but be a source of refreshment that permits us to carry on with this cause to save democracy.
Welcome aboard,.. there is sufficient space for one and all.
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
said on 8/6/2006 @ 1:37 pm PT...
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
said on 8/6/2006 @ 2:58 pm PT...
Mr. Mills is catching on. Welcome to the darkside. Pick up a flashlight on the way in and watch out, the first step is a doozy. Allow me to refresh: 1. the repubs are already working on the 2008 election as 2006 elections have been handled. 2. the American people don't care about elections as long as they can still get take-out pizza and go to Disneyworld each Summer. 3. no one in power is going to let anyone count paper ballots. 4. it shouldn't be long now before elections are a thing of the past because current legislation is taking all that stuff away at astronomically fast rates that are increasing exponentially. Have a nice day!
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 8/6/2006 @ 2:59 pm PT...
Guess I offended you, MEP. Maybe I'm an intellectual snob. It's also possible that people down where you live have helped turn the country we both grew up in into a Fascist state. Ever consider that possibility? Ever consider that you're part of the problem, not part of the solution?
Do I consider myself intellecutally superior to Georgians? Yeah, I do. Does that make me a snob? Maybe it does. Sorry about that. It isn't because there aren't smart people in Georgia...there are. A handful. But the smart people in Georgia aren't in charge of things down there, and they haven't been for a long time. That's the problem, MEP.
Who has been in charge in Georgia? Coca-Cola, football freaks, Newt Gingrich, NASCAR, Dixiecrats. What have you done to halp reverse this trend? Just asking. If I've been unfair to you, I humbly apologize.
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
said on 8/6/2006 @ 3:00 pm PT...
BINGO! Finally. Check the dictionary for the word "recount" - basic idea is that there must be something to count. Regurgitating totals doesn't quite hack it. If every non-verifiable election goes like this from now until corrected I'll be singing in the streets regardless the outcome!
COMMENT #25 [Permalink]
said on 8/6/2006 @ 5:25 pm PT...
Robert Lockwood Mills
First, you did not offend me, you pissed me off. There is a difference which I doubt you can grasp. I will not bore you with a crude definition.
Second, thank you for removing any doubt concerning your snobbery. I appreciate the honesty but I came to that conclusion long ago by reading your posts. I did not need your admission.
Third, I was not aware that "people down where you live" were any more guilty for the current "fascist state" than other geographical regions that voted for the current regime. As to the orgins of the neocon ideals I'm afraid you have to look to the northeast. I do not recall Pearle, Wolfowitz, Abrams....etc, as being southern products. And Newt was born and raised in PA. For the record let us look at the orgins of W. Born in New Haven, prep school at Andover, undergrad at Yale, and with help from GHWB an MBA from Harvard. Might I add that summers were spent in Maine. Where he got the fake accent I would suggest we check out the Drama and Speech Dept at Yale because he did not spend enough time in Texas to have developed it naturally. It would take too long to document GHWB's orgins but here is a hint, it was not Texas.
Fourth, you assumed I am from Georgia. Wrong again Robert. I'm a cajun who was born and raised in east Texas. I have lived in PA for the last 13 yrs. My neighbors in that fine state consider me a Godless Pinko. I sure I'll be one of the first collected for the local gulag. Someone of your obvious superior intellect should be careful in making assumptions. It would take me too long to discuss the changed demographics of the NEW SOUTH, but I'll give you a clue. A very large percentage of the voters in Tom Delay's Con.District are not native Texans. Another clue, they came south to get there, way south.
Robert you gave me so much good material I could go on forever. But why expend the effort. You missed my point and yet made it for me. A couple of things in closing. My travels have convinced me that there are stupid vile people populating all 50 states. Are there higher concentrations in certain areas? Perhaps. Ponder this, the most violent anti- bussing riots of the 60s took place in Boston. The largest Klan membership was located in Ohio and Indiana although I think Idaho might take that prize today. The point is Robert that all of these places contain sane people as well. To exclude people based on geo-location and prejudge is also stupid and vile. As to what I have done personally to stem the tide of the Fascist? I owe you nor anyone here creds or docs. However, the fact that you ask in your superior manner again makes my point. So Robert take those questions and your apology and find a nice dark place to put them.
COMMENT #26 [Permalink]
Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 8/6/2006 @ 10:45 pm PT...
Thank you for the well argued points, MEP.
I don't know the difference between "offend" and "piss off." You're quite right that I can't grasp it. So I can't apologize at once for offending you and also for pissing you off. But as you don't accept apologies, it doesn't matter.
I'd make only one final point. Your neighbors in East Texas thought you were a "pinko" (you don't say SOME of them, only "neighbors"). Do people in Pennsylvania feel the same way about you? Assuming they don't, and if your politics haven't changed, I'd suggest you've proven MY POINT about regional attitudes.
I can't prove it, but I think many (not all) Georgians and East Texans have developed a gang mentality over the years toward anyone who thinks differently about politics. You were a "pinko" to East Texans. In Georgia you might have been a "faggot." In Alabama you could have been a "nigger-lover," or what's even worse these days, (gasp) a "liberal."
Snobbery is a natural defense against group biases. If I've painted Georgians with too broad a brush (and I might well have), you've validated my central point with your anecdote about your East Texas neighbors. I'd assume you're happy to be the hell out of there.
COMMENT #27 [Permalink]
said on 8/6/2006 @ 11:14 pm PT...
You have a way of inventing context Robert. If you read my earlier post you will find that I am refering to PA not Texas with the Godless Pinko comment. I would think that a New England Blue blood like yourself could at least keep things in context. But of course it must have been my presentation. It appears we have chased everyone else off this site with our exchange. I fear we will have to agree to disagree. And in closing I do except apologies when I think they are offered in good faith.
COMMENT #28 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2006 @ 3:31 am PT...
Sure hope your optimism is well founded. Since our voting system here in Utah was based on the Georgia model from the start, it would be great to be able to say that model has gone the way of the Model-T!
Anything would help at this point!
COMMENT #29 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2006 @ 4:50 am PT...
MEP and RLM, please. We're all on the same side here.
COMMENT #30 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2006 @ 5:02 am PT...
Alright y'all, settle down now - don't MAKE me turn this car around...
COMMENT #31 [Permalink]
Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 8/7/2006 @ 5:24 am PT...
For MEP and Everyone: In a private e-mail I've assured Winter Patriot that henceforth I'll refrain from engaging in geography-based, red state vs. blue state dialogue.
COMMENT #32 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2006 @ 5:39 am PT...
Come on, RLM, it's time for a truly sincere apology, plus a promise to read posts attentively before flaming back. And, MEP, well stated. Please accept RLM's apology, don't except it... (Sorry - I waxed a wee tad snobbish;-)) As for the theme of this thread, thanks, WP, for getting this out there. Maybe another way to get it into the federal courts is for people to file suits like this all over the place, whenever the public is forced to take the absurd leap of faith that paperless voting requires. They've been srutinizing with our brains, as Mike Tyson might put it, and I want my money back!
COMMENT #33 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2006 @ 6:55 am PT...
Blacks are responsible for human rights changes more than anyone else. Martin Luther King is the greatest American. They stand up for their rights. The Hispanics did, too, with all the illegal immigration stuff...did you see them mobilize by the millions???
COMMENT #34 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2006 @ 7:02 am PT...
Great comment above. The 2006 elections are already done, and they're working on 2008. They work backwards. The Iraq War was a done deal. Work backwards and plant WMD stories leading up to the Iraq War.
The headline "Santorum upsets Casey in Pa." is a done-deal headline. Working backwards, plant the impossible story of the Green Party garnering half a million votes, 100% from Casey voters...start the stories NOW!!! Which is happening... The Green Party story to Santorum, is the WMD's story to the Iraq War... We are just getting so good, we're seeing things ahead of time, instead of 2 years after the fact...
COMMENT #35 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2006 @ 7:04 am PT...
Don't bother with FACTS, MSM, like the most 3rd party votes ever in a Pa. Senate race was 220,000, and not even by a Green Party, OR that Libertarians and Constitution Party take votes from Santorum...just push "the story" they're telling you to.....
COMMENT #36 [Permalink]
Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 8/7/2006 @ 7:44 am PT...
I was hoping to drop this, Czaragorn. But tell me please, what is a sincere apology, and how do you distinguish between apologies?
Remember, I didn't pick a fight with MEP, he picked one with me. I responded that he had made good arguments, and apologized for offending him. At which point he created a bizarre distinction between being offended and being pissed off, he lectured me at length, and ended his polemic by telling me to stick my apology where the sun doesn't shine.
Now you're asking me to make a sincere apology. How do you know I wasn't sincere the first time? What's going on here? This guy gets pissed off (but not offended?) over something I posted and launches into an unprovoked personal attack on me, though I never attacked him...and now the question is my sincerity? Sorry, I don't get that. I don't get it at all.
COMMENT #37 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2006 @ 8:06 am PT...
I usually enjoy your comments, Robert, but I'm dismayed at this exchange between you & MEP!
I second Unirealist's #29.
Let's not let relatively trivial stuff divide us. I know, easy to say. I'm as touchy as the next person at times.
But whoever said
"there are stupid vile people populating all 50 states"
Yep, there are.
KestrelBrightEyes...lol, thanks for the levity!
COMMENT #38 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2006 @ 8:08 am PT...
RLM has been a valuable poster here for too long to be cast as the bad guy in this stupidly peripheral debate. He's always tried to be level-headed and fair. Screw the apologies. Just drop the whole thing, for god's sake.
COMMENT #39 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2006 @ 9:38 am PT...
MEP: Why do the Southern states vote Republican? Against their own interests? "What's the matter with Kansas?"
COMMENT #40 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2006 @ 9:42 am PT...
MEP: Why does the North vote Democrat, and the South vote Republican? I think this is a very good debate, we shouldn't discard... According to "The Republican Noise Machine" by David Brock, the $$$ roots of the Republicans are from Southern wealth. They always vote Republican and are the "red states"... And, from election to election, the same states are (for the most part) ALWAYS "red" or "blue"...with very few exceptions. Compart the 2000 & 2004 elections red vs. blue. I don't think this is "imagined"...
COMMENT #41 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2006 @ 9:48 am PT...
RLM: Please just drop it. Your apology didn't work because you let it seem as if you would continue to hold southerners in low esteem.
MEP: Please just drop it. I'm sure Mr. Mills has the picture now, and we really don't want to fight when we're, mostly, on the same side.
Big Dan: Please just drop it. Piling on right now is divisive.
We're trying to bridge gaps, and remove the prejudices that keep countrymen from uniting against the real enemies.
COMMENT #42 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2006 @ 10:48 am PT...
I'm just asking some questions.
COMMENT #43 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2006 @ 10:51 am PT...
I really admire this woman. Blacks speaking out, seem to really start movements. I think Martin Luther King is the greatest American, if I had to pick one.
COMMENT #44 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2006 @ 11:23 am PT...
Here's a guy out of West Virginia, Bob Kincaid:
His show runs from 7 to 10pm Eastern (4 to 7pm Pacific), and you're not going to hear many stupid crackers on that show. The south has many, many intelligent people, and progressive people.
COMMENT #45 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2006 @ 12:08 pm PT...
I'm originally from N.C. but made it out to the north. In '04, the election was so screwed, N.C. didn't have a sec. of education or agriculture for months. But no one questioned the pres. vote. ODD. Has anyone heard that Nixon didn't win the popular vote but was made pres. by the electoral college? Chapel Hill,N.C., had at one time the highest per capita # of PHD's in the country. In my own abstract , convoluted way I'm trying to say we haven't had fair elections or a fair election system in a long time. AND lots of rich Republicans have moved to the south ...God only knows why. No unions for slave labor...warm weather. I've been guilty of putting down the south for personal reasons, but this thread is a good lesson in putting that behind me. We must be united and respect each other.
COMMENT #46 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2006 @ 12:16 pm PT...
I think we have to realize that there are many different KINDS of people...
1. People who are educated enough (it doesn't mean they have to have multiple degrees, they could have learned it on grandma's knee) to think critically and question authority.
2. People who are working so hard just to stay alive that they don't get much chance for discussion or reading or alternative media, and the little they get is MSM in small doses.
3. People who are inherently bigoted or narrow-minded or who have been so well brainwashed by the MSM and their upbringing that they don't really "think" any more but just respond as well-programmed robots.
4. People who are "middle class" or "upper-middle class" and many of whom probably consider themselves "liberal" but really haven't availed themselves of the alternative media and don't believe that anything they hear on PBS or NPR could be slanted or that CNN could have a political agenda or that the New York Times could be full of crap and carrying water for the Republicans on their news pages.
And there are many other types of people of different mixes.
AND, most importantly, these different types are ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, and not just in one specific geography. So, we have FRIENDS all over (yes, even in Texas and the deep south, and DEFINITELY in the "middle states") as well as ENEMIES all over as well as people who we will have to fight FOR, since they won't fight for themselves.
We must judge people by their ACTIONS and OPINIONS, and not by where they live or the color of their skin or even how much money they make. (Yes, I have met a millionaire who supports voting rights and hates the neo-cons IN SPITE of the massive tax breaks they have given him, and I suspect there are m any out there who feel the same way.)
The Republicans have been dividing us and labeling us for fifty years to get to this point. They have worked hard to create a mindset in both Columbus AND Savanna and a thousand cities in between that would vote against their own self-interest because they believe that "liberals and Democrats are weak." This has been LONG TERM PROGRAMMING --- it won't be broken down in a day.
Every battle in EVERY state that moves us back towards a Democratic Republic and away from the edge of this slope towards Fascism is a worthy one.
Those of us who believe are ALL IN THIS TOGETHER, wherever we live and wherever we are from.
COMMENT #47 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2006 @ 12:26 pm PT...
Just want to put in my two cents, then I'll hush about it.
I attended a town hall meeting not too long ago, where the speaker was a Congressman I used to vote for, mainly because I liked his views and the way he supported education issues and the arts. I came out of the meeting deciding to vote AGAINST him in the next election - and I did vote against him in the primary. One reason? He spent a great deal of his speaking time quoting the Bible, and every single question he responded to had some reference to God, church, and Christianity.
Now I’m not Christian, but I’ve spent enough time in Sunday school to recognize a Pharisee when I see one.
It didn’t matter that this particular Congressman didn’t know how many of those present were not Christian. He knows that the Bible thumpers run this county and this state, so that was who he was courting. He even commented SEVERAL TIMES that he believes the reason he never carried our county in a general election is because people just don’t believe that a Democrat can be a Christian. His intent that day, obviously, was to convince them differently.
Like it or not, image is everything - and in spite of actions that directly contradict the “pro-life/pro-family” rhetoric that permeates their speeches, the GOP has a majority of southerners (and apparently others too) convinced that the Democrats are godless heathens who are trying to destroy family values by allowing homosexuals to marry, taking public prayer out of schools, and putting all other religions on the same level with Christianity - and here, that is unforgivable.
And THAT is why, IMHO, the majority of the time, most southern states elect Republicans.
Now, many times I’ve been asked why I still live here in an area run by those many call the “American Taliban", especially given that I’m not Christian and therefore am considered part of the “radical fringe” group that is either ridiculed or basically ignored by the rest of polite southern society. I even ask myself that question sometimes, especially when the grass gets brown and crunchy, the creek runs dry, and the heat index climbs above 100 every day for weeks at a time. (I even had a plastic bag melt into my leather upholstery last summer - broke my heart!) I could give you a hundred reasons why I love living in the south, but the shortest reason would be..it’s home. It’s a part of my heritage I want to pass on to my kids and grandkids, it's where my extended family lives, it's the place where my ancestors lived and died, it’s a way and a tone and a style of life where I feel comfortable and I just can’t imagine living anywhere else.
Listen y’all, we have our differences I know. I have to tell you though, that I’ve met rude and obnoxious and ignorant and cruel people on BOTH sides of the Mason-Dixon line. Sometimes I feel like a blue island in a sea of red, but ya know, there are a lot of us that feel that way - and I think we stay wherever we are because we feel that there is more good than bad.
And if you need that statement explained, you’ve never spent much time here - or at least, when you were here, you didn’t open your eyes and your heart and your mind.
Now, that said..let’s move on to the things that unite us, shall we? Let’s start with taking back our Democracy.
After that’s done, maybe things will settle down and I’ll teach y’all how to cook southern style. First lesson - contrary to popular belief, we do NOT fry everything. We DO, however, cook anything and everything on the grill.
And sugar goes in the TEA, NOT in the CORNBREAD.
COMMENT #48 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2006 @ 6:14 pm PT...
"contrary to popular belief, we do NOT fry everything"
Unlike the California State Fair where their advertisements proclaim that everything is deep fried!
Heck, we've got deep fried Twinkies, Milky Way bars, Ice Cream, and lord knows what else!
If it fits on a stick they can fry it!
COMMENT #49 [Permalink]
JUDGE OF JUDGES
said on 8/7/2006 @ 6:32 pm PT...
COMMENT #50 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2006 @ 7:04 pm PT...
COMMENT #51 [Permalink]
JUDGE OF JUDGES
said on 8/7/2006 @ 8:12 pm PT...
We will have fruitcake @ Christmas time that's several months away . . . Try gop Frist/Schiavo(Terri)'08
COMMENT #52 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2006 @ 8:20 pm PT...
Sorry, JoJ, you're now #51, the first #51 was someone who has been banned, and must have found another computer, et cetera, to come in screaming again. I did not catch it right away. Sorry.
COMMENT #53 [Permalink]
JUDGE OF JUDGES
said on 8/8/2006 @ 12:59 am PT...
Agent99 - That's Ok, Thanks!
COMMENT #54 [Permalink]
said on 8/8/2006 @ 2:25 am PT...
Big Dan #39
I'm glad you brought up Kansas!
You have to go out of the country to get this story, but get a load of this. Recently a former KANSAS REPUBLICAN PARTY CHAIRMAN decided to run for deputy governor AS A DEMOCRAT. Read a paragraph from the story:
Republicans in Kansas, he says, have let down their own people. 'They were fixated on ideological issues that really don't matter to people's everyday lives. What matters is improving schools and creating jobs,' he said. 'I got tired of the theological debate over whether Charles Darwin was right.'
COMMENT #55 [Permalink]
said on 8/8/2006 @ 3:14 am PT...
Let's not forget folks, just because the Diebold machines are exposing the fraud now, doesn't mean corrupt officials haven't been stealing elections for decades in Georgia and elsewhere. The same people who are refusing to scream about the machines now were probably in charge before.
That's why I've turned rabid here in Utah. I hate being a laughing stock and prefer to believe they have been stealing elections with punch card machines that expert Michael Shamos warned could be programmed with RADIO WAVES! They don't care if they make us look stupid, as long as they win!
Every place has people who will follow the crowd and go along with whatever they think everybody else is doing, so even if they are rigging things, just the fact that they SAY everybody here is voting Republican would cause people to vote that way. That's why it's doubly important to trash these machines!
If the machines ARE stealing votes, then you have to wonder why Democrats get elected at all here, but I explain that by realizing that whoever is rigging them, (if they are), knows what the actual count is, and is trying to makes things look as realisic as they can without relinquishing power, like the news media reporting stories they would rather not. They realize they can't ignore news that's been exposed and verified on the internet, so they have to report it, without actually making it a top story! Gee, I hope they don't ever do that with voting machines, (dripping sarcasm)!
Bruce Funk assured me at his presentation a couple of weeks ago that the man who's been programming our punch card system is honest and I tend to believe him, but that doesn't mean he had any way to stop the radio waves! What a situation!