READER COMMENTS ON
"La Prensa: New Type of Election Fraud Alleged in Mexico"
(24 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2006 @ 11:56 pm PT...
USA,.. phantom funds to Republithug candidates,..
it is already happening,.. think Abramoff,.. T. Delay,.. and Poppy and Jeb bu$$h. Lots of secret
dollars injected into the election war chest funds of right-wing candidates. Just swimming in dirty cash.
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
said on 8/8/2006 @ 12:15 am PT...
Not to mention the billions missing from the Pentagon and Iraq.
Greg Palast had a good column today on the Mexican election and warned that paper ballots is not the salvation of democracy. http://www.gregpalast.com/section/articles
It does get discouraging. Crooks will always find a way to cheat. Maybe we should pass a constitutional amendment imposing the death penalty for election fraud? Ala Gitmo, "they" will just have the underlings do the dirty work for them and then they'll execute them.
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
said on 8/8/2006 @ 3:34 am PT...
Do you really think that we will someday set up our own like this one???
That couldn't happen here!!!
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
said on 8/8/2006 @ 4:15 am PT...
Bob #3, that link is the "rosetta stone" story, I have that one at the top of my favorites, ready to fire off at any time needed
I was going to use it yesterday for another post, the Leadership Institute is where the Republikans are getting their poll workers from, there is like 44,000 grads of that asshole outfit, enough to put a couple of creeps in every precinct across the US and in their off time to troll blogs, spewing disinfo
The best (worst) of the class go to the IRI (who is coaching Fox and Caulderon) and other Reichwing thinktanks
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
said on 8/8/2006 @ 6:43 am PT...
I got the link from a post of yours several weeks ago and added it to my ready to fire list as well. I have used it on a few other sites too. I also have this link to what I often refer to as The Fraud School Media Plant Jeff Gannon and Karl Rove Both Attended. I assume that is what you referred to as the Leadership Institute.
That link seemed to fit this thread so well that I felt the need to fire it off before you could get here!
My post this morning didn’t post as planned. Here I hope is what I tried to post this morning:
Do you really think that we will someday set up our own Tax Payer Funded Republican Propaganda Machine like this one???
That couldn’t happen here!!!
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
said on 8/8/2006 @ 8:48 am PT...
#5 Bob I don't think we have to cheat like they do as there are so many more of us
And also, why would we need a school to tell us the truth ? We already know what we want, they have to be told what they want over and over again to suck in the gullible voters, hence Rush, Hannity et al IMO
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
said on 8/8/2006 @ 11:50 am PT...
Of COURSE they are doing it here.
Don't you think the federal money to "faith initiatives" that all seem to end up at pro-Republican churches is the same thing?
What about the money for pro-Administration propaganda?
What about our tax dollars paying for "public events" where members of this corrupt administration speak but where those who diagree are not allowed to attend? (Wasn't there something about "the right to petition" in the Bill of Rights?)
They are gaming the system in the USA to the tune of BILLIONS a year. And even with all that money, they can barely get 35% support, which tells you that there are plenty of "smart people" in the USA who will take the bribe and then STILL vote against these scum.
It's time to Eat the Republicans --- they're nice and fat and juicy.
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
said on 8/8/2006 @ 4:41 pm PT...
Same thing, election malfunction, is happening in the mother of all down with incumbent scum elections ... DUH ... in Connecticut (link here).
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
said on 8/8/2006 @ 4:51 pm PT...
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
said on 8/8/2006 @ 6:09 pm PT...
You do realize that Prensa Latina is a Cuban news organization. I realize that much of the US press has become semi-fascist, but do you trust news from a full-fledged dictatorship?
(In other words, a more realiable source would improve credibility!)
(here is a link to a Mexican newspaper that has a report on these accusations (en espanol; one can use Google translate to get a idea of what it says) http://www.lajornadamich.../2006/08/02/10n1soc.html )
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
said on 8/8/2006 @ 6:24 pm PT...
I think Prensa Latina is read all over the Latin American world. It's published in Spanish and Portuguese and English, and may be related to La Prensa, which is/was both Columbian and Nicaraguan.... Certainly easier to read in English than from a computer translation.
San Jose Mercury News also has good coverage, and Greg Palast, BBC.
Funny, though, that some dictatorships want people to have the democratic news and others don't.
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
said on 8/8/2006 @ 8:28 pm PT...
semper fi: I read news from all over the world and I have to judge the reports (and the reporters) on what they say, rather than the type of government they have.
I occasionally see good reports from China and Russia, and I don't have any respect for the governments of those countries. And I see some really bad reporting from USA where reporters are supposedly free to write the truth as they see it.
Meanwhile: HEY what a great thread this has become! I love how I can ask a "rhetorical question" and get all sorts of good links and comments in return. So thanks again and please keep up the good blogging.
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
said on 8/9/2006 @ 7:16 am PT...
Hand counted paper ballots are clearly not the answer. It would be an improvement over the way the EVM’s are being used now but it does not solve our problems.
The only correct answer is verified voting. That would solve our problems. Everybody associated with our elections wants to test the EVM’s prior to elections or after elections. Neither of those can ever result in verifiable elections. The only time the machines need to count correctly is during the elections. Why not verify that they are counting correctly during our election? If we can do that we have a correct answer to the problems we are having with fraudulent vote counting.
As they are used now EVM’s are a big part of the problem. That is so because the corrupt people who control our elections are taking advantage of the weaknesses of the EVM’s rather than taking advantage of their strengths. We are already using EVM’s that can memorize every vote cast. Why not have them remember where that vote came from as well? They can very easily do so if we want them to. Then everybody could check to see that their vote was really and truly counted as cast. For the purpose of keeping the vote secret ever voter could be given a uniquely numbered receipt of their selections. A second copy of that uniquely numbered ballot could be securely stored by each precinct in case a recount was needed. Before leaving the polling place the voter could verify that the receipts were both correct. The machine could easily order all the ballots it memorized in order of the unique numbers they were assigned. It could publish that list on the internet and elsewhere so that those who want to know if there votes were counted as cast could check and see. If nobody finds any discrepancies the votes cast were counted correctly. If we also insure that extra ballots were not added we arrive at verified voting. That is somewhere that we have never visited before.
This should very rarely happen if the EVM’s are really trying to get the count correct, but if any candidate can demonstrate that there is less than 99.9% accuracy in the published list a recount is clearly required. Since the EVM’s have clearly failed badly if this does happen the cost of a hand count of the receipts the precinct secured must be covered by the company that contracted the counting. The outcome of this monitored recount determines the winner of the election. It is not that difficult to get to where we want to go if verified voting is our goal. The big problem we have is those who have been controlling the outcomes of our elections don’t want to venture anywhere near verified voting.
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
said on 8/9/2006 @ 4:14 pm PT...
WP: 'I read news from all over the world and I have to judge the reports (and the reporters) on what they say, rather than the type of government they have.'
Come on, you have to have a means to judge the veracity of the report. Otherwise, "What they say" could be pure Bushit. But I suspect you know that.
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
said on 8/9/2006 @ 4:22 pm PT...
99: 'I think Prensa Latina is read all over the Latin American world. It's published in Spanish and Portuguese and English...'
Sort of like Voice of America ...
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
said on 8/9/2006 @ 4:33 pm PT...
Ultimately, semperfi, any means of judging the veracity of anything is purely subjective... until you can find real proof. North Americans absolutely have no better a track record for truth in their publications than do the Latin Americans. (Although Canada seems to do a better job than the United States every time I get to see or hear from them.) Beside the need for real proof, there is the Einsteinian "Truth Makes Music", but not enough of us are Einsteinian enough to recognize whether it's truth or our biases making that music.
Right now, I trust Cuban and Mexican reportage on this subject more than our own. I trust Greg Palast's take on it more than anything we might get to hear through the msm, assuming they EVER deign to make a peep about it.
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
said on 8/9/2006 @ 9:40 pm PT...
99: 'Right now, I trust Cuban and Mexican reportage on this subject more than our own.'
I wouldn't trust any of the above without independent corroboration --- Cuba (government control); Mexico (land of PRI and narcotics corruption); USA (corporate control).
Einstein dealt with the truths of the Physical universe, dealing with people is a lot more messy. But feel free to shop around for the subjective story you like.
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
said on 8/9/2006 @ 10:01 pm PT...
Dude, thanks for your permission, but I'm afraid my point must have whizzed clean past you. Meditate. Einstein's point was about truth itself; not specific to any particular aspect of it. Taking one country's form of government as reason to believe its journalists over another's is about as subjective as it gets. Toss off the bonds. Look and see.
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
said on 8/9/2006 @ 10:30 pm PT...
Form of government is not the issue. Control of the press is.
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
said on 8/10/2006 @ 12:13 am PT...
Yeah, Castro's going to want left-leaning reportage, where here in the good old US of A we prefer none. Our never-elected president calls the not-certainly-elected candidate to congratulate him before the result is even certified, and you're griping because another dictator who feeds his people, houses them, educates them, gives them medical coverage, and sends squads of doctors out to help the poor in other countries, is a worse influence on the press than the vicious dictator boob we have? "Semi-fascist"? Oh, at least. And, don't go citing the swimmers. They're swimming to a dream that is really a nightmare.
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
said on 8/10/2006 @ 8:12 pm PT...
99, that's amazing, writing an apology for a dictatorship in an election thread. Tell us, do they worry about vote fraud or how they count the vote in Cuba, since only the communist party candidate can win anyway?
Maybe we could return to the topic of the thread. Has there been any follow-up or corroboration? Are the Mexican authorities investigating? Could the charges have been trumped up by a rival union? Any information?
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
said on 8/10/2006 @ 8:18 pm PT...
I think John Dean just wrote a book about your way of thinking....
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
said on 8/11/2006 @ 10:54 am PT...
If you are referring to the John Dean who stood tall during Watergate and recently wrote "Worse than Watergate" and "Conservatives without Conscience", I sincerely doubt that he supports dictatorships that hold sham elections. 'W' on the other hand jokes about being a dictator... (that seems to be closer to your position here).
In this country, at least, we have a chance of retaining, or in some cases (e.g. Ohio) regaining fair and open elections, but citizen involvement is required.
See blackboxvoting.org to get your 'Citizen Toolkits' to help 'take back our elections'.
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
said on 8/11/2006 @ 9:06 pm PT...
Why is there so little about this, and the recount?
Virtually nothing is being reported about the the outrageous voting irregulariities. It appears an outright election theft is in process.
Meanwhile the streets of Mexico City have been the site of major protests... Many thousands of Mexicans, interupting traffic into the city, blocking foreign banks, corporations & today, the stock market! The protesters now occupy a 5+ mile stretch of Mexico City's main thoroughfaire, where they are encamped - in a tent-city!
WTF!? Where is the media coverage?
Anyone remember the CNN's constant reporting on the '04 election in the Ukraine? Could it have something to do with Yushenko being favored by US interests (then) vs. López Obrador (in Mexico) being non-Free-Trade?
This two-faced stance on democracy - supporting the values of democracy only when it suits our national interests is transparent!
The only reporting I've seen, (save for this page) have been slanted & inaccurate pieces by the WAPO, and the NY Times - each calling Felipe Calderón the winner ala FOX (for Bush) in 2000! Factually speaking, the courts are still in the process of a partial recount... There will not be a new Mexican President sworn in until Sept, 1.
Talk about bias, spin & misleading!
I don't think we have to worry about the Liberal Media... Its the dishonesty in all of our media outlets! Where's the truthful media?
Check out this attempt to link one of the Mexican candidates with Terrorists/terrorism (by Barnard R. Thompson)... What a crock!