Just watched Lieberman concede and announce he's running as an independent (CNN).

Of course, the MSM is pulling their usual stunt. Hype up the primary all day (all month, in fact) and then when it's over --- who cares? MSNBC is running some show from 2001, didn't even show the concession speech. CNN had Candy Creepycrawly on some crappy sounding cell phone talking over Lieberman's speech and telling us everything that Lieberman had just said.

Sheesh! Morans!

The tide is turning.

I watched the results on several websites. KOS was right on top of it all night. The courant.com was first to report the concession. Yahoo! was right behind. MSM - not in the running.

Brad/WP,

What is the zero with a dot in the middle (submittal code)?

truth seeker: That's a zero!

The codes use only the letters A B C D E and F, and the digits 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 and 9.

I apologize for the confusion. And for the inconvenience. I don't like it much, personally, but it's a good weapon in the War on Spam. And in that war we need all the weapons we can get! Otherwise I would spend all day deleting spam and have no time left for blogging!

Off Topic:
X hours until Dubya outtricks Trick-Dick!
Two and a half more years to destroy America before returning to Crawford, Texas!
May God help us!!!

Why do some zero codes have dots and some do not? This is not user friendly.

Truth Seeker #7: The letters and digits are rendered differently from one post to another, to defeat attempts at scanning the codes with software.

AND McKinney gets crushed. A great day all around.

From July 18 to Aug 8, McKinney's vote total rose 0% and Johnson's rose 50%, has that ever happened before? Johnson got around 13,000 more votes in the runoff than the primary, and McKinney got around 200 more votes...If all Coyne voters voted for Johnson (improbable), that leaves 8,000.

In the primary:
—————–
McKinney 29,216
Johnson 27,529
Coyne 5,253

In today's runoff:
——————-
McKinney 28,832
Johnson 41,178

So, from July 18 to Aug 8:
—————————
McKinney got 616 more votes
Johnson got 13,649 more votes

http://www.sos.state.ga....ts/2006_0718/0001410.htm

http://www.wsbtv.com/pol...tics/9640750/detail.html

Lieberman gone; next Santorum...

YES!

MSNBC finally covering this.

Chip Reid and the rest of the MSNBC talking heads seem to think that Lieberman has a good chance of winning as an independent.

More morans.

Hate to sound like a spoil sport but I don't think Joey is that bummed. He has always known that he has the edge in a three way race. If the DNC does not step on this roach and throw their full support behind Lamont........well what do we do guys in that event?

Regarding COMMENT #2, Truth Seeker said:

"The tide is turning."

Really? Don't you think it's waaaaaaaaay premature to engage in such wishful/fantasy thinking? ONE piece of trash and ONLY one piece of trash has lost his senate seat. That's all. How on earth does that constitute "the tide is turning?" Also, CT has very few (easily-hackable) e-voting machines. Lieberman could "win" in November. He may be gone no where.

When, say, 20-25% of these useless trashy Republican and Dem politicians lose their jobs, THEN maybe we can say that the "tide is turning." But, on reflection and in the meantime, the Bush Crime Family are still in power and will remain so at any expense and at any cost to accomplish their PNAC goals. Therefore, the tide remains unchanged.

The next test is to remove Iraq war-profiteer and Bush enabler Dianne "I'm really a Republican" Feinstein. Personally, I don't see that happening. She makes a better Republican and Bush enabler than the official Republican candidate (Mountjoy). Also, CA now has Diebold and corrupt Republican election officials.

No, this old barn has A LOT of cleaning to do and The People haven't begun to make a dent (with Lieberman), and it will takes years and years to remove all the trash. We don't have that much time left. This planet is heating up pretty fast folks. (It will take 18 years to clear out the Senate, for example, since the Senate is divided in thirds and their terms are staggered so each senator is up for re-election every 6 years). Nobody has that much time.

This election night is a referendum on Israel's running America. Israeli dollars bought GA a defeat over McKinney. The Arab Israeli Pact Agreement that legislators sign in exchange for Israeli campaign funds seems to stop legislators from criticizing Israel at all.

Israel is the most powerful lobby in Washington. Israel has infiltrated Chistian voters to the point that they walk in lock step.

Will Israeli dollars buy Liberman a victory in Nov? Seems to me that Liberman represents Israel inside the chambers the same as Abramoff outside the Senate chambers. My guess is Israel will flood whatever it take$ to keep Liberman on the inside.

Those who perceived themselves as victims will victimize others. Who, better than Jews, have mastered the art of percecution? This is why Israel will NEVER be at peace, nor will they allow others to live in peace.

#16:

This primary had nothing to do with Israel. This was about a grass roots movement to show solidarity against Bush enablers. The Busheviks fail at everything they touch. We've had enough! Anyone who is with Bush is against America. Period.

Lamont is certainly nothing to get excited over. He's just another millionaire politician. Frankly, I'm sick of those type.

The World Socialist website writes excellent articles and here is what they have to say about Lamont:

Except for his decision to challenge an incumbent senator, Lamont is an utterly conventional figure in American bourgeois politics. His position on the Iraq war differs little from that of Senator John Kerry or House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, calling for a withdrawal of American forces to bases in Iraq and Kuwait and turning over the active combat role to the military and police of the US-backed stooge regime.

Lamont fully supports the US-Israeli war against Lebanon, and has made statements defending the Israeli bombing that were indistinguishable from those of Lieberman.

The great-grandson of one of the original partners in J. P. Morgan, Lamont was a multi-millionaire from birth, then built an additional fortune of an estimated $200 million from a business providing specialized cable-television services to colleges and universities. He is the great nephew of Corliss Lamont, the millionaire who ran as a third-party “peace” candidate for governor of New York in 1958. He was briefly a councilman in Greenwich, the upper-class suburb of New York, and once ran unsuccessfully for state senator.

While the support for his campaign expresses massive popular opposition to the Iraq war and the Bush administration, as well as disgust with the Democratic Party establishment, Lamont’s candidacy is a dead end for those seeking to bring an end to the war. Were Lamont to be elected, he would quickly be brought into line on Iraq, as his fervent defense of Israeli aggression demonstrates.

The endorsement of Lamont by the New York Times reflects the concern, on the part of the sections of the American ruling elite for whom its speaks, that the two-party system is becoming increasingly discredited by the unanimity of the Democrats and Republicans behind a common program of war abroad and repression and social reaction at home.

The Times editorial calls Lieberman a Bush “enabler” and “one of the Bush administration’s most useful allies as the president tries to turn the war on terror into an excuse for radical changes in how this country operates.” It concludes: “this primary is not about Mr. Lieberman’s legislative record. Instead it has become a referendum on his warped version of bipartisanship, in which the never-ending war on terror becomes an excuse for silence and inaction.”

What is the perspective revealed here? The editors are concerned above all that opposition to the Iraq war must be co-opted and confined within the framework of the two-party system. If the tens of millions so deeply opposed to the war in Iraq feel that there is no room for their views within the Democratic Party—and there is not!—they will look elsewhere. That is what the Times’ editors fear most.

Lieberman has already taken out nominating papers to run as an independent candidate in the November elections in the event that he loses the Democratic primary. The outcome of both contests cannot be predicted with any certainty. Whatever the immediate result, however, the Lamont campaign represents a trap, not a genuine alternative, for the growing movement against the war in Iraq.

The opposition to the war can be brought forward only on the basis of an independent, socialist perspective and opposition to both parties of US imperialism, the Democrats as much as the Republicans.

Democratic Party leaders rally behind pro-war Senator Lieberman
http://www.wsws.org/arti...6/aug2006/lieb-a03.shtml

Anyone who has watched elections since '00 and '04 never has much confidence in results because of last minute strangeness.

Election officials should be ashamed of themselves for letting it go so far down that road.

Should have gone to bed hours ago but just couldnt do it.

Now get on the stick tomorrow and pound Harry Reids email and phones. Email and call every damn Dem and let them know this was not a fluke or an upset. It was an ass whipping by We the People. Let them know that we expect them the uphold the parties moral obligation to back the Primary winner full tilt. Good Night.

RLM.......You have very good reason to be proud of the people of the Nutmeg State.

MEP, COMMENT #20

You really think the Dems care? I don't. They won't get the message regardless. They are clueless no matter how many calls or emails they get.

Also, I would hardly call a win of 51.8% (last number I've seen) an "ass whipping" for Lieberman. Lamont barely squeaked through. An "ass whipping" for Lieberman would be an overwhelming majority such as 75% or higher for Lamont.

The pro-war, pro-Bush, pro-corporate, triangulating cudchewers known as the Dem Party really have no credibility any longer so it won't matter whom they support "full tilt" in November. And in November, e-voting will be in full use nationwide. (CT has very few e-voting machines.)

#15,

Who cares about Feinstein, we're already living in a full-fledged dictatorship! We have been for six years!

We might as well give up and fly our flags upside down!

Erma #18:

Your link didn't work for me. That's okay. I just wanted to see what kind of rag would say this:

The opposition to the war can be brought forward only on the basis of an independent, socialist perspective and opposition to both parties of US imperialism, the Democrats as much as the Republicans.

Well, I can hang with the upside down flags, but the give up part? Not even. You want to just sit back with an upside down flag while these guys keep killing people who were never a threat to us? Want to just hang while the carnage escalates? Haven't we been dissing Nazi Germany for that shit for like close to seventy years?

What kind of voting machine setup does Connecticut have? Is it possible that the voting officials there have been scared by the recent lawsuits and decided to stay the heck away from any trouble?

If that's true, we could really be headed for some good times!

Erma, check this out. It's long, but very worth the listen. Fast forward through the commercials. It might give you more insight into why the Democrats have been so lame, and, for that matter, why the Republicans have been so brazen. I don't think you have experience with this. You could be 230 years old, and not have experience with this.

Naw, Larry, the Republicans would have no interest in messing with that race. They are going to vote for Lieberman whether he's Democrat or Independent, because he makes a better Republican than their candidate.

Larry, #25

From what I've read, CT has the old lever voting system and a few e-voting machines (they're in New Haven, for example). So most of Tuesday's election was NOT on e-voting machines. They did have trouble with those e-voting machines in New Haven on Tuesday and as I recall from the article I read, those votes were "impounded."

Agent #26:

Oh yes, I have experience with that. I listen to Mike Malloy's show every night. I heard all that. I just don't agree with Mike that "we" need to give the useless Dems "once last chance." Hell, they've had 100s of chances since 2000 and failed miserably. I'm done with them. Period.

BVAC in #22 said:

"Who cares about Feinstein, we're already living in a full-fledged dictatorship! We have been for six years!
We might as well give up and fly our flags upside down!"

I agree. The flags should have been turned upside down in the "nation in distress" mode since the night Bush/Cheney were selected by the Supremes.

I only mentioned war-profiteer Feinstein because some people have been engaging in fantasy-thinking ("the tide is turning"...yeah right! LOL) just because Lieberman was (temporarily?) unseated. Feinstein ain't going anywhere. She makes a superb Republican and Bush-enabler. Arnold Schwartzenazi is considering endorsing her instead of the official Republican candidate.

Erma

You have experience with an oligarchic coup d'etat? You understand that forces beyond *'s control had America on full nuclear alert, a la Cuban Missile Crisis BEFORE the planes were hijacked on 9/11? That they threatened to shoot down Air Force One? That the Secret Service did not whisk him to a bunker, per form, and there was no fighter escort for Air Force One, because they were stood down so he could be threatened? That he got told how this was going to be played, and that, in effect, we have had a puppet regime in place since they decided Gore was going to be too hard to handle in 2000? Wow! You are a sharp one! Why are you still griping about the useless Democrats, when EVERYBODY, Republican and Democrat is helpless to do anything but what the guys with control of our nukes, and the most strategic parts of our governmental infrastructure, want done? You already knew that 9/11 was an inside job and haven't yelled about it?

#2

Which way is the tide turning. This sure looks like a three way race that will put a rubber stamp in the Senate come November. Rove has to love this one! It won't take so much fraud to control a three way race come November.

Like I predicted, when you demos get who you want, all of a sudden there is ABSOLUTLEY no voting irregularities. The funny part is, on the same thread someone is saying the Mckinney vote had them.
If Lamont had lost, this site would be covered with voting problems in Conn. Its true, you all know it. Its why Brads goal is a wasted effort. When this happens, his entire effort is lost. Its not about Proper voting, its about overturning proper elections to get who you want in.

BUSTED!

OMGLMAO

Waing: You are full of shit. We've had reports coming in all day from Georgia about serious irregularities and we blogged about it. If you pay any attention here you will see that the piece about McKinney's situation was blogged well in advance of any results being reported. It's not about the result; it's about the process.

But we didn't have any reports like that coming from Connecticut, and that's why we didn't blog about it. It has nothing to do with who won.

Georgia uses paperless Diebold machines, and a long history of "very surprising results". And there's no way to verify the results there. So these things make one suspicious. Connecticut uses mostly old-style machines and that makes a big difference.

If McKinney had "won" we would still be talking about Diebold machines being hackable, and leaving no trail that could be audited. When Republican incumbents were almost cheated of their victories in the Iowa primary because of faulty programming, we were pleased to blog about that, too.

So don't give me any of this bullshit. Personally I almost never care who wins or loses. But if an election is not run fairly. I think we all lose.

If I see any more disinformation from you, and especially if I see any more disrespectful comments directed toward Brad's work, you'll be joining the list of people who are invited not to comment here anymore.

Brad: I think you need to check the fine tuning on this site. I hear some kind of strange buzzing coming from the #32 area. Sounds like a gnat on steroids. Maybe it's more of a grating sound --- like a screechy, rusty gate blowing back and forth in the wind. Does anyone else hear it?

So, from July 18 to Aug 8, Johnson saw a 50% vote increase to 0% for McKinney. No comments? Are my numbers faulty? If they're not, I can't believe "no comments" on one candidate getting a 50% increase in 3 weeks vs. 0% for the other. Call me crazy, but that doesn't make sense.

Using rounded numbers, from July 18 to Aug 8 Johnson received 13,000 more votes to ZERO for McKinney. Coyne got 5,000 votes on July 18. Let's assume the absolutely CRAZY assumption that all 5,000 Coyne voters 100% voted for Johnson. That means 8,000 people who did not vote 3 weeks ago, walked in off the streets 3 weeks later, and 100% voted for Johnson…along with 100% Coyne voters voting for Johnson. And I'm assuming all Democrats, because this is a Dem primary (is that correct?). That means 8,000 Republicans didn't walk in off the street to get McKinney out of there.

Can someone verify these numbers?

Big Dan: I don't think you're crazy.

Big Dan

Looks pretty strange to me - 8,000 more voters alone seems strange, 100% for Johnson WTF.

Ut oh Look out. Another person with opposing viewpoints is going to be BANNED! lol. Save your threats. You dont scare me WP, nor your threats of banning. But you go ahead and ban all opposing viewpoints and label them disinformation if you wish.

Ive watched as EVERY SINGLE non liberal is accused of "disinformation" and banned. Spare me.

Waing: It's not about opposing viewpoints. We don't mind opposing viewpoints. Check the most recent McKinney thread and you will see that.

But lying and treating others disrespectfully are against the rules here now. And by the way, I didn't make the rules. I only enforce them.

Don't take it personally. The same thing would happen to anyone who came in with a pack of lies and showed contempt for Brad's work.

Let's put it this way:

If you can PROVE what you have said here (in comments #32 and #39) then you can hang around and post some more. But if you cannot do so, then you have no grounds to protest when we label it as disinfo.

Go ahead --- let's see how much of your bullshit you can can back up!

WP,

Show me one example, JUST ONE, where you told a liberal poster to back up their conspiracy theorys, or be banned.

JUST ONE!

Waiting........

Sheesh what a MORAN

Waing: This is not about conspiracy theories. This is about your having posted statements that are demonstrably untrue.

So ... Can you defend them ... or not?

Can anyone help further (thanks Winter) on this issue of the integrity of polling organizations? Talk with a right winger and they don't like them, say they are influenced by the "liberal media" who hires them. There was a big smear campagain against exit polls following the 2004 race. What sort of standards are employed to keep them un biased?

Waing

I second WP ... you are full of sh*t. If you have any indication of Connecticut voting machine irregularities, bring it on. We want to know!

If there is a prima facia case of wrongdoing, then we will demand a FIRST HAND COUNT of paper ballots! And at no cost to the petitioner. Everyone, not just the candidates, deserves a free first validated count!

This blog would support Lieberman or Lamont in such an effort! Elections must be verifiable to everyone.

Unlike the fascists, we do not want anymore stolen elections nor criminals playing president and f**king up the world with wars, lies, torture, and corruption.

Lieberman now understands that message. And we will not accept anymore frauds upon the people. Lieberman has that message ... and if he has grounds for either a first count or a recount, I for one support it!

Waing, one more thing ... if you know of no such EVM problems, then shut up.

This statement:

Your comment is awaiting moderation.

is on my post #45.

Is it because I came out for Lamont before anyone else on this blog?

I posted for Lamont a month or so ago before the software was changed !!!! I knew Lieberman was a neoCon.

Let me know ... ... I can handle it.

Dredd: The answer to your question:

Is it because I came out for Lamont before anyone else on this blog?

is NO!

ERMA #15

You are right ... the tide is not turning ... it has already turned a while back.

It is just that some politicians who have been corrupted by power and who now reject their own people and party, like Zell Miller and Joe Lieberman, do not know about it and do not care anyway.

So we take them out.

It is the American thang.

WP ... thanx ... I was worried that this blog was doing a Lieberman and turning against its own. It can happen. The message I had concern about is gone now.

So why did that message show up ... quien sabe, kimo sabe, or kimo therapy ????

#32,

You are arguing on a faulty premise.

Like I predicted, when you demos get who you want, all of a sudden there is ABSOLUTLEY no voting irregularities.

Aside from the fact that not all of us are democrats, you are suggesting the strawman argument that we charge voting irregularities on any race whose outcome we dislike, rather than by merit.

The funny part is, on the same thread someone is saying the Mckinney vote had them.

There were reports of voting difficulty in a district that is well-known to have problematic elections. Probably not enough to throw the election, but anyone claiming that should screw their head back on.

If Lamont had lost, this site would be covered with voting problems in Conn. Its true, you all know it.

I'm not sure how to explain this in a way that you can understand, but if the two most recent polls showed Lamont with a 13 and 6 point lead and Lieberman pulled out a win - that in itself is reason for more scrutiny. The only reports of irregularities I've read were about a couple machines breaking down momentarily at 6:30am, and that's become a 'voting regularity' whenever these machines are involved.

Its why Brads goal is a wasted effort. When this happens, his entire effort is lost. Its not about Proper voting, its about overturning proper elections to get who you want in.

Define 'proper elections'.

BUSTED!

OMGLMAO

zomg loll

I'm outraged! It's clear that Diebold stole the election for Lamont. I've been disenfranchised! It's impossible that Lamont could have won because the election was clearly stolen! I'm clearly an out of touch lunatic liberal!

So Long . . . . . "Uncle Joe" Lieberman . . .

Agent, #30

"You already knew that 9/11 was an inside job and haven't yelled about it?"

Honey, no need to patronize me as to what you THINK I don't know. Some of you people on here need to get off your damn all-knowing and omnipotent pedestal that you've put yourself on. I've been following this stuff just as closely as you have Agent, if not more so. I wasn't born yesterday or the day before. I knew 9/11 was an inside job from the start and have been yelling about it since only to be called a "looney conspiracy theorist" on message boards. I didn't buy into all that plastic patriotism and phony nationalism right after it happened. I knew it was the new "Pearl Harbor" of page 51 of PNAC.

As for Dredd and his comment that the tide as already turned, you're in dreamland. Wishful-thinking. But if you want to think that, so be it. I read a lot of that stuff on here...wishful-thinking.

I believe 9/11 was an inside job. However since the congress was controlled by democrats at the time, I think they were the ones behind it.

Also, Bill Clinton was behind all the terrorist stuff while he was in office. My proof is that it is so.

Dredd, #48

"the tide...it has already turned a while back. It is just that some politicians who have been corrupted by power and who now reject their own people and party, like Zell Miller and Joe Lieberman, do not know about it and do not care anyway. So we take them out."

LOL. That must be some strong stuff you have. As I said in my post above, it's waaaaaaaaay premature for any intelligent and astute person to assert that some "tiding is turning" or has already turned just because one piece of trash senator has temporarily lost his seat. That's just wishful/fantasy world thinking. I try to look at reality and live in reality, and not grandiose wishful-thinking and the way I wish things would be.

As for your comment that the "tide has already turned," check out this article.

Report: Rove offered Bush's assistance in Lieberman campaign
http://www.rawstory.com/...resident_Bushs_0809.html

QUOTE: Karl Rove, a close advisor to the President [sic], has expressed interest in assisting Connecticut Senator Joe Lieberman in retaining his seat, despite a loss in the Democratic Primary last night, ABC News has reported....George Stephanopoulos, writing for the World Newser blog at ABC, wrote that a Lieberman aide had shared with the news agency a message from the White House: "The boss wants to help. Whatever we can do, we will do." END QUOTE

Uh huh. Did you catch that Dredd? The part about: "Whatever we can do, WE WILL DO."

Nothing else needs to be said. Since they are the Bush Crime Family and control the easily-hackable e-voting machines in November, they will do just that. Lieberman ain't going anywhere as I suspected last night. "We" ain't taking out anybody when the truth be told. No tide has turned. Just more wishful thinking.

All the commentary over Lamon over Lieberman is mostly just TALKING heads. Fact is that Joe is not notable for anything over three senate terms. The Iraq war support is one small issue that contributed to his primary defeat. Connecticut wants representatives that will champion real causes on some-what of a regular basis (i.e. global warming, lost of middle class society, hunger, genocide, drugs, healthcare, etc.)

I wasn't born yesterday or the day before.

You sure as shit weren't born 87 years ago either.

GMAN #55

Well, frankly, I don't know why people are so jacked up over Lamont. From what I've read and heard, he looks a case of "the best of the worst." I'm sick of the "best of the worst." Here we go again. He's another millionaire politician (UGH!), pro-Israel and his position on Iraq is really no different than that of Kerry and Pelosi. Well who needs that?! If he were to be elected (yeah right), being a freshman he would very likely have to get in step with the pro-war scum DLC "leadership" in order to be accepted. I don't see Lamont being "elected" in November after the Bush Crime Family do their number and get Lieberman "elected" again.

Joe Lieberman will now be able to spend some Quality time with Tom Delay . . .

http://tomdelay.blogspot.com/

1932 July 31: National Socialists win 230 seats in Reichstag with a total vote of 13,745,000 (37%).

1932 November: Thirty-nine prominent industrialists and businessmen petition Hindenburg to appoint Hitler as his new Chancellor. Hindenburg refuses.

1933 January 30: Hitler is appointed Chancellor of Germany by President Hindenburg.

1933 March 20: Dachau concentration camp is established.

1933 April 1: Nazi boycott of Jewish businesses and professions.

1933 September 29: German Jews are banned from owning land and from all public activities.

1934 June 30: Ernst Roehm (Röhm) and other SA leaders are murdered in the "Night of the Long Knives."

1934 August 2: President Hindenburg dies and Hitler declares himself Fuehrer (Führer).

1935 September 15: The Nuremberg laws are passed, removing Jewish legal equality and prohibiting "mixed" marriages.

Erma: Somewhere in the short 3 year window above, we moved from "things look bad, but it's not too late" to "it's too late."

When you say you aren't willing to give the Democrats ONE last chance this November, are you ABSOLUTELY SURE that we've passed from "it's not too late" to "it's too late." If you aren't ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE that there is no chance we can fight this battle, then what harm is there in trying? And if you are sure we've lost, then why bother posting or commenting. Why not hunker down for the bad times ahead? After all, the only possible mechanism for opposition if we really are past the tipping point will be UNDERGROUND, so having your name and IP address (and whatever else the NSA knows) out there can't possibly be a good thing. Would seem like an e-ticket to Gitmo on the first wave of busses.

I know we are slowly sliding down a very steep hill towards a really ugly fascism. I know that the media is bought and paid for. I know that the three branches of government are mostly in line. I know the military is generally in step with the plan. But...

If there is even the slightest chance we can slow down this impending disaster...

just the slightest...

Then I will vote Democrat once more this November.

I will sit down in the streets to get the votes counted for Democratic candidates I don't even like much.

And I'll do it again in 2008 if I get the chance, though if they try to shove Hillary down my throat, I may have to rethink my position. (And this from a guy who marched for the ERA and still remembers the 16 words of its section 1 by heart.)

Thank you, Charlie. Hear, hear!!!

Charlie's post #59:

"Then I will vote Democrat once more this November."

Sucker! You and others are suckers. The useless Dems know that you will vote for them no matter what they do for Bush and the Republicans. They take your vote for granted. The entire US Congress could be comprised of these so-called Dems and nothing would change. Not a damn thing. We would just have a pile of more Bush and Republican enablers. But you refuse to see that. The Dems will continue to be Bush enablers because most of them vote FOR Bush and the Republicans most of the time. That ain't about to change. Period.

"I will sit down in the streets to get the votes counted for Democratic candidates I don't even like much."

Well, you'll pretty much be by yourself sitting in the street. The masses will tell you to "get over it" just like I was told in 2000. The masses are not paying attention. My son told me that he talked with a guy yesterday at his gym. This is a guy my son has talked with in the past. They talked about politics in the past and my son said the guy was quite up on things in the past. Yesterday my son mentioned Lieberman to this guy. This guy did not know who my son was talking about. So my son said, "you know, Lieberman as in Lieberman and Gore?" To cut the story short, this guy didn't not know who Lieberman was and barely even remembered who Al Gore is! My son was blown away. He called me and said, "mom, it's hopeless just like you say. The people are not paying attention just like you say. They've tuned out."

So, anyway, you can sit in the street---go for it---but at that point you will more likely be the one who ends up in Gitmo.

"And I'll do it again in 2008 if I get the chance, though if they try to shove Hillary down my throat, I may have to rethink my position. (And this from a guy who marched for the ERA and still remembers the 16 words of its section 1 by heart.)"

Well isn't that wonderful. You may have that chance in 2008, but I don't think Dictator Bush has any plans of leaving in 2009 so...

The bottom line: It's all over for this country. Time you realize that. It was all over for this country the night of the judicial coup. It has only gotten worse with every passing day since then.

And I post to try to get this through your thick heads but it doesn't seem to take! Some of you are pretty thick and you wear these wishful-thinking blinders. Sigh. You still don't have a grasp for the type of people you're dealing with: The Bush Crime Family.

Erma:

Do you have any constructive thoughts?
Or is your gig strictly de-motivational?

ERMA, I don't buy it.

First, I don't buy that you are here posting to "get it through our thick heads." OUR heads are NOT thick like your son's friend. We're not blinded. We see what's going on. We read. We surf. We don't rely on just the MSM for our newsfeed. We may differ on whether or not we have reached the Tipping Point or not, but we all see what's happening. So, I don't accept that you are just here for that purpose, and if you are, then you really don't NEED to be. (I don't say that to be antagonistic, because I really believe we are on the same side.)

IF all was lost when Bush v. Gore was decided; or if all was lost when Gore made his deal not to challenge the Florida electors; or if all was lost when nobody rioted when they destroyed Max Cleland with robgeorgia; or when they spun the Wellstone memorial to destroy Mondale; or when they stole 5 million votes and 7 states in 2004, then so be it.

BUT, if "it's all over for this country" than we have NOTHING TO LOSE by electing as many Democrats as we can and occasionally throwing out a few DINOs so those that are left will see that our "netroots" have some power.

Do you have an alternative, or should I just crumble up and cry or die? There is a meme going around that the Republicans are TRYING to give people a sense of absolute despair and hopelessness because that will make the population easier to manipulate and control. I WILL NOT FEED INTO THAT. I WILL KEEP THE HOPE UNTIL THE DAY I DIE THAT I CAN LEAVE A BETTER WORLD FOR MY DAUGHTERS THAN THE ONE I FOUND.

IF it is really "all over for this country" then what have we got to lose in fighting for fair elections. Sure, it may be a quixotic battle, but why not?

When the history of the "0h ohs" (2000-2009) is written, they will be able to say: "The United States was in a fast-paced and relentless race towards corporate fascism with only a few pockets of resistance from the likes of bradbloggers like Charlie L and others."

If everybody is really asleep, then maybe nothing will wake them. But, perhaps, one morning (November 8, 2006 would be a nice day) they will wake up and come to the simple realization that "we've been had." The cosmic tumblers will click into place and the rush or truth will hit them like a slap on the face. They will go to the streets yelling "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more." They will drag the neo-cons from the SUVs and "Reginald Denny" them. They will purge the CEOs and the bankers and the oil men and the PNACers and most of the Republicans and DINOs (who don't renounce fast enough or with enough mock enthusiasm) and start something new. It won't be perfect, but it will definitely be different.

Don't for a minute imagine that 50 or 100 million people with a single thought can't change the future of this nation small nation. There is no police force or army or homeland security team or Fox News that can stop that kind of movement.

You play the cards you are dealt. Would I like a better hand than the pathetic Democrats I've been given? Sure. But I don't have that luxury. When you are given lemons, make lemonade --- it beats the hell out of sauerkraut juice.

Hear, hear, Charlie L! (again)

AAAWWWW GEEEZZZ!! I am shocked at Liberman's response. Run as an independent. What a sore loser. Decent people who lose their parties primary throw their backing behind the party candidate. No wonder the voters wanted this dweeb out. This proves he is actually working for the Republican party. He is now going to dilute the democratic vote with a three way in hopes that it will set up a win for the republican candidate. I am ashamed to say I once liked this guy...

99

Make sure CharlieL has a pot and a wooden spoon, although he makes damn good noise without them. Outstanding.

Pick a # ERMA
Go over to narconews.com, read the story concerning Oahaca. If you are not inspired, then consider shame.

Actually, the Republican has little chance in this race, even triangulated.

Liberman is still hoping to win in November, and there are many scenarios that might give it to him.

The best I heard today for his slogan was: LIBERMAN: PARTY OF ONE. Though I'm also partial to ALL FOR LIBERMAN; LIBERMAN FOR HIMSELF.

IMO:

Erma is just a right wing plant trying to draw us into an anarchistic conversation so that they can publicly dismiss us as "left-wing fringe element".

I'm not buying it.

I think it is possible to be terribly discouraged by the massive corruption and evil that has permeated our government without being "one of them."

I give ERMA the benefit of the doubt.

But it is easy to slip from angry to hopeless, and I refuse to lose my traction.

"Vote by vote, polling place by polling place."

That's all we want, in every one of 435 congressional races and 33 Senate races this November.

That, and every single angry American to come out and vote for the Democratic option.

If hearings aren't scheduled in every single major committee for the afternoon of Inauguration Day, then we can start fielding alternative candidates for 2008 and checking out our options for recalls. One way or another, we will know if it is still within our power to take back our government from these criminals.

This is getting hilarious. Erma had a few debatable points, but it turns out "she" is some kind of existential sucker. Wow, what a godsend it would be to the Bush Crime Family to create masses of Ermas. It's job would be done.

I thought Erma's idea was that we should all hit the streets. Now, even that's a lost cause.

Also, Erma hasn't been paying attention on Brad Blog if "she" thinks we don't understand the evil Bush crime family, the obstacles we face. The discussion should be about how we deal with them, not whether we should or should not deal with them.

It is disingenuous and dishonest for Erma to state that lack of knowledge is at the root of our misdirection. (And this from someone who has no discernible direction.) There is no basis for a verdict of ignorance on the part of most Brad Bloggers.

So, what it comes down to, in Erma's sucker world, is that we are inert and oppressed beyond rational action.... Or are we committed to principles toward which our energies should be directed? The debatable part for most of us is in what manner shall we direct those energies.

I don't expect to convince many people...but, IMO, saying either the "tide has turned" or "Lieberman will win in November" is not useful in terms of activism. What's useful is playing it by the moment - as in a battle - as we advance. Nothing stays the same, and it is a big --- maybe the biggest --- mistake to think it does. It's being attuned to nuances that creates the momentum necessary to carry on.

In regard to specifics, I can't much improve on Charlie L with whom, as usual, I find myself in agreement.

Jo-Joy #65

I'm with you 100% on that! He needs to get his act together and help not hinder if he is truly a Democrat.

Charlie L #63

Excellent!

Many of the tactics we have seen here by the trolls are revealed in the Twenty-five ways to suppress the truth.

The Lamont victory is a clear message from the anti-war majority in this country. This is also a major reason why the wars have been expanded in the Middle East. Look for the BCFOL to find a way to bring Iran into the wars by October. They need a gigantic diversion to retain Congress in November.

Erma #15

"The tide is turning." "engage in such wishful/fantasy thinking?"

Dreams turn into reality. Civilization is a creation of many dreams. Action is neccessary of course. If you look a little further into this blog its there. There is so much happeining daily with this issue that some things get lost. But the people here do know their stuff. Go into the archives, listen to some of Brads interviews and you might think differently. The word is getting out. One uninformed person in every four will not stop it.
Don't let them convince you its not possible to change this without a bloody battle because it is possible. Believe it and have a giggle which will free you of despair thus opening the channels of creative manifestation. We cannot win without truely believing we can. If we believe we are powerless that we will be.

Words have power. People do listen. Affirm that for yourself. Let your belief be unshakeable and watch it happen.

Yep. October is going to be an interesting month.

Sally #75,

Thank you. I totally agree.

Great thread you guys, Charlie L. So eloquent sir. You stir the passions with that kind of talk. Keep it up people it is working. People are much more plugged in than they were just last year. Power to the People! ITMFA! Go Ned Lamont!

Charlie L:

Passionate and reasonable rebuttals. Very inspiring, Thanks!

I don't care what anybody says. Today, victory is ours, not theirs, ours! It's about time the pre-election polling wasn't turned on it's head. I like these lever machines.

I put this up on an earlier post, but I want to make sure nobody missed it. I think it's a very important story and is evidence the tide IS turning:

- - - - - - - -

Recently a former KANSAS REPUBLICAN PARTY CHAIRMAN decided to run for deputy governor AS A DEMOCRAT. Read a paragraph from the story:

Republicans in Kansas, he says, have let down their own people. 'They were fixated on ideological issues that really don't matter to people's everyday lives. What matters is improving schools and creating jobs,' he said. 'I got tired of the theological debate over whether Charles Darwin was right.'

As difficult as it seems to be for some to accept, Erma & I are right.
We're "suckers" to think voting for do-nothing Dems will solve any of our problems. We're living in fantasy land, in love with optimism because we think it "feels" better than pessimism--because we have not looked for any other options.
I'm sure the 'corporate party' thinks it's hilarious.

Why don't people get it?
This government we have ain't workin right, & it ain't gonna---EVER!!! Not ever.
NEVER.
We keep doing the same things & we keep getting the same corrupt results---but we keep expecting it to be different!
How silly is that?

It's the way the government is set-up, silly.
It's set up for corruption.

Maybe Erma doesn't know what to do about it, but I DO!

When you KNOW what we have won't work---you look for what will.
Seek & ye shall find.
If you are under the misguided idea that voting in the lousy Dems will do anything besides having more lousy Dems in governmnet, you won't look for another solution.
And THAT'S the danger.

Why, oh why, can't people see! It's like when Lucy tells Charlie she'll hold the football for him to kick every year, but every year she pulls it away just as he kicks.
That's what will happen if we vote in the Dems.

I beg people to look into the National Initiative for Democracy at www.ni4d.us
It's not perfect, but it WILL stop most of the corruption & fast.
You wouldn't see any Republican or any Democrat laughing if citizens get serious about the Nat'l Initiative!
Instead, they'll be fighting it tooth & nail, with disinfo, outright lies--whatever.
THEY know if citizens were to adopt it--it would mean the end of their games. Period.
I believe that's why even some on this blog refuse to give it an honest look--because they know it will take away a lot of power from legislators & put it in the hands of the citizens, something they are not interested in seeing happen because they have a vested interest in seeing Democrats get into office.

Erma, if you read about the Nat'l Initiative, what is your opinion of it?

I believe the citizens will adopt it one day--when it's way too late to change any lasting harm done by the old, corrupt system that people hung on to out of self interest, lack of imagination, apathy, fear of change, & misguided loyalty to Dems.
I believe it will be celebrated as the dawn of "true" Democracy in America one day, like the 4th of July is now.
I'm afraid, if this blog is any indication, first it'll be like Bob Dillon said. "It's a hard..it's a hard..an it's a hard rain's a gonna fall..."

Watch out for Liebermann winning the election as an independent. Again, I'm suspicious of the "final count" being much much closer than the pre-election polls. ALWAYS...does this happen. When was the last time a Dem's final count against a GOP exceeded the pre-election polls...OR a liberal Dem against a conservative Dem? ALWAYS...the same...when it happens EVERY time, it's not random.

comment 49 BVAC: My comment 81, I STILL suspect voting irregularities!!! That is FALSE that just because Lamont won, we don't suspect voting irregularities. I made comment 81 before I even scrolled up and read the other comments claiming this.

I'll make this statement:

I WILL SUSPECT VOTING IRREGULARITIES IN ALL ELECTIONS, UNTIL THEY GET RID OF ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES!

There, trolls, NEVER SAY AGAIN, that if an election goes our way, we don't suspect voting irregularites.

Charlene - How long do you and Erma think your plan will take to implement? As Rumskull quipped, "You go to war with what you go to war with, not with what you'd..." We have already seen Repugs fleeing the sinking ship like the rats they are, but imagine how Bush's Little Lieber has set an example among alleged Democrats. Let's go for the jugular while it's within reach, surely! Shouts of "Out with the DINOs" should stand their hair on end.
Everyone else, especially Charlie and Arry and, hey, as they say, too many to mention: What a super thread! Truly eloquent

Now that the writing is on the wall, the republican dictatorship is going nuttier than a reichstag fruitcake.

Expect "turrism" and "insirgency" to increase in the fascist hope that "amurkans" will become scared as a result of their phoney facade.

And expect the Katrina Kids in the white house to try to convince everyone that it is everyone else's fault.

And expect them to lose bigger and bigger as time goes on.

Charlene,

I haven't forgotten about the National Initiative. I think it is a fine proposal given the safeguards included in it, but I still have practical questions about it.

For example, certain polls have shown that nearly half of citizens believe freedom of speech "goes too far". That's not a good sign for national popular initiatives. An educated population is absolutly vital in the case of national initiatives --- I mean educated in the basics prior to the educational process of the initiative.

Also, IMO, democracy will be most effective if there is some kind of localization of sovereignty. In other words, interest and commitment to a community in depth is the natural base of true democracy - and, I should add, of anti-corporatism.

So, I think any kind of initiative process should take place in a environment of decentralization.

In regard to Democrats...Of course, our political system is corrupt beyond measure, largely being a matter of bribery and pampering an elite power structure. That doesn't negate the fact that there is a band of gangsters and fanatics - overwhelmingly Republicans - who are subverting the election process, trashing the Bill of Rights and Constitution, and literally destroying the earth as a matter of government policy - at a frantic and insane pace. We have an acute problem on top of our chronic problems. I wish it weren't the case, but it is.

I'm not a Democrat and I'm not defending Democrats, but it is important to remember that "Democrat" is not a species with certain genetic characteristics. If someone ran and won as a Democrat on the platform identical with that of the Green Party (not easly done), I wouldn't have a fit because that person called herself/himself a Democrat.

Neither Erma nor anyone else can out anti-corporate or anti-fascist me.

# 84 - Czaragorn – Yes, let’s go for the jugular. Now’s the time.

For a peaceful guy, I think I use the warrior analogy too much, but…if we are in a battle, we have to know when to “go for the jugular” and when to engage in other aspects of the battle plan (or when to deal with other contingencies). If we our objective is to reach a certain point, only the most ignorant officers would say, “Just go there. Ignore everything else.” No, timing and awareness of surroundings and enemy disposition are crucial.

A big danger - and here I think Charlene and Erma (assuming the latter is legit) would agree - is that in focusing on one crucial aspect of the battle and bringing it to success, the troops may believe they have won the war. I don’t deny that it is a big danger. I think our recent history - late ’60’s to the present a clear warning to the present progressive movement.

Now, I’ll abandon the war analogy for awhile (it gets kind of boring, I think) and get back into battle (oops, that didn’t take long) and make the neocon murderers and attendant sycophants squirm and then help dispose of them.

Why was there such a big discrepancy between the pre-election polls and the "final count"? Anyone explain that???

Arry

Hi again.
(I haven't been able to get the impeachment thing off the ground here. It's a tough row to hoe.)

Erma has nothing to do with the Nat'l Initiative as far as I know.
I just asked her to give us her opinion of it IF she read about it.
The point Erma & I both agree on is that counting on Dems to fix it all is "wishful thinking".

Thanks for giving your opinion on the Nat'l Initiative. I've been trying to get people to look into it for a while now.

I looked at your link to the poll.

The executive director of the First Amendment Center which took the poll, Ken Paulson, who is apparently now the editor of USA Today, said people polled believe the first Amendment goes "too far" because they think it's necessary to defend us against "terrorism".
Now remember, public opinion is formed from what the media tell us.
People think it goes "too far" because the corporate media have done their disinfo job well & fed the public that line of bull--paving the way for acceptance of the Patriot Act & all the rest of our freedoms being taken away so they can make money.
We know the negative effects of media consolidation. The average joe that hasn't looked into it does not know this.

If citizens had access on a daily basis to independent news, they would think the way we do here on BradBlog.
They'd be mad as hell & not willing to take it anymore.

With the Nat'l Initiative, we can correct this.

If it were up to me, I'd

1st. Stop the war & stop the 3 billion going to Israel every year. They'd get some aide, but not 3 bil.

2nd. Change the income tax laws. The rich would start paying their share.

3rd. Change the laws re election funding. They'd all get the same amount from the government & no more & they'd all debate, in depth & in detail with no cheating allowed, for as long & as many times & on any subject the citizens want.

4th. I'd use the huge sums of money coming into tax coffers to improve the educational system. We would have the best school system in the world, with swimming pools, labs, best teachers (& rid ourselves of the teachers that are vested but not inspiring & tough), assistants to help the slower ones etc. Our schools would be nearly sacred places where we honor knowledge once again as the key to success. A kid would love going to school & can't wait to learn more in college.
We'd also have to get a budget together & pay off our debt. After we nail the oil industry for fraud & price gouging, & the banking industry too & all the rest--we'd confiscate their billions & billions of profits made at our expense & use their ill gotten gains to help our budget.

5th. I'd get a health care system going that takes care of our health in a decent manner that we can agree upon.

6th. I'd vote honest public servants into office & rid ourselves of what's there now. No more corrupt judges, legislators, presidents.

7th. We'd have a foreign policy that respects our neighbors & assists with stopping human rights violations all over the world, even in countries that have no oil, strengthen the UN & it's stated goals.

8th. We'd begin a fast change from fossil fuels to sustainable ones--wind, solar etc., make the car industry & others follow suit & clean up our air & water. The environment would come first on any legislation.

9th Impeach Cheney & his monkey. All involved would get life in jail with no parole, not a pardon, & I'd push for hard labor on a chain gang or maybe latrine duty, not time at a white collar crime tennis club type prison.

10th. Of course, our voting system would be made as honest as humanly possible. We'd look into the options & decide how best to do it.

Arry, there might be some downside to the Nat'l Initiative, but if there is, we can fix it. Plus, it's not going to be anything as horrendous as what we have now!

All of these changes are quite possible.

Despite what some are advocating here, we DON'T have to settle for crappy government & crappy leaders.
F*ck them!
Our country is rich. Why aren't we livin large?

We have to do some critical thinking & have the courage & vision to do what it takes to make the government we want happen.

Doing what we've always done yet another time & hoping for the best, obviously & glaringly, will not work.
We have to work both ends toward the middle at the same time: keep trying the traditional way AND get busy with Nat'l Initiative too.
We gotta jerk that power away from the criminals who have it now & put it back where their power originated & where it always will rest---in the hands of the People.

I've already voted for it.

Please look into it seriously.

#82,

When I wrote #49 I was not aware of the 13,000 vote gap between the primary and run-off. I knew there was a jump but didn't know by how much, and figured it was just supporters of the other-guy voting against McKinney. It deserves the attention it's getting, but my main point is that elections are scrutinized on their merit and not because someone we like lost. All elections should be open and transparent, of course.

#90
My feelings exactly. All elections must be open and transparent. We have to trust the results. I also was unaware of the 13000 vote gap.
I personally do not care much for the image McKinney projects. More moderate Americans like myself are generally turned off by it, however this is not about who I like958b. It's about trusting the results.

OOPS! Not used to typing in the code and my "missing code" ended up in my text. Yeesh...