READER COMMENTS ON
"Political Protesters Face Death In Mexico"
(38 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
said on 8/13/2006 @ 2:49 am PT...
Political Protesters Face Death In the United States.
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
said on 8/13/2006 @ 3:04 am PT...
This is gorvernment at its worst and reporting at its best.
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
said on 8/13/2006 @ 3:07 am PT...
I love the image of the campesinos with their sticks and iron rods and wives and children chasing the governor around to mock him. It makes me happy and proud for them. They see the way to a better life, to end their oppression and they are standing up for it, standing up to the threat of death in the best way possible. They not only risk their lives, but make those who would kill them realize their own filthy instincts by bringing along the whole family. This is transcendent courage, and existing for all the right reasons.
This is what it takes to get, and to maintain, freedom and democracy.
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
said on 8/13/2006 @ 3:08 am PT...
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
said on 8/13/2006 @ 3:25 am PT...
That's pretty heavy Virtual. Maybe you could introduce yourself.
Are you white?
Are you a slave?
Do you have slaves?
Are you scared?
Do you deserve to be scared?
Are you for or against verified voting?
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
said on 8/13/2006 @ 3:34 am PT...
I don't think Virtual Chicano meant anything more than that the threat of being killed for political protest looms large here too. Or so it would seem with the vexing reluctance of Americans to wrest our country back from criminals.
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
said on 8/13/2006 @ 3:51 am PT...
Don't you think it could be a white guy trying to scare us by linking to that website?
It's a nice website, but the things I read on it seem to be written by justifiably angry, struggling people.
The stupid white men have put us in a dangerous situation, AGAIN, by creating an underclass of people and then trying to pass laws that make life even harder for them.
I sure hope he comes back to explain himself!
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
said on 8/13/2006 @ 4:02 am PT...
Well, Larry, I think I have an advantage over you on this one. I can see the email address. I think Virtual Chicano is a Chicano who uses the Virtual world of the internet. It's a fact that there are FEMA detention camps all over the place. It's a fact that the government acts more like Nazi Germany with the passing of each day. Plenty of people are scared to do anything about it. And plenty of people are too fat, or too hypnotized to do anything about it. When enough people get a grasp of the truth, I think the Norte Americanos will finally shed their fear, and follow the wonderful example in Mexico. Freedom isn't free. I think that is what Virtual Chicano was saying.
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
said on 8/13/2006 @ 4:11 am PT...
I think the safest world is one in which everybody has a say in their fate, (yes, I'm for the UN too),and that is exactly what the Republican's don't want, but that means we white people could be in for trouble if things don't transition nicely.
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
said on 8/13/2006 @ 4:43 am PT...
Are you worried that if Lopez Obrador gets his rightful office he will try to take back former Mexican territory? Are you afraid of the masses of poor people standing up to their oppressors? Oppressors come in all shapes, sizes and colors. Don't forget El Torturador himself, our fascist Attorney General. Globalization has already gotten away from us. The individual countries of the world need leaders who will look after the welfare of their citizens above the bank accounts of their wealthiest patrons, OR you can have World War III and seriously cut back on the number of starving and homeless minions cluttering up your view. I think the people in Mexico, and Venezuela, and many South American countries are doing the right thing. They are cutting off the pillage of their resources by their local oligarchs and U.S. Corporations. If we don't do something similar, it really doesn't matter what color you are, it's not going to transition nicely.
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
said on 8/13/2006 @ 4:54 am PT...
"El Torturador". I like that!
No, from what I heard, Lopez Obrador wants to help the poor people of Mexico first and that would be best for everybody including the minute men here who don't know what to think.
Obviously, everybody likes to stay in the home of their birth and that would make everybody happy. I just think that fear of the oppressed is what is fueling the reluctance of the incumbent jackasses to want fair voting. I think everybody will have to share more in America which would be a good thing for all of us, but you know that is going to drive the self important ones to rage.
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
said on 8/13/2006 @ 5:08 am PT...
Yup, I shore do know that, and tough tomales. I think they will try to do some more really awful things, and I also think their forces will turn against them in ever increasing numbers, the worse they get. I also think that if we take a page out of the Mexicans' book, start following, say, The Governator and * and Vice Fuhrer Darth Fudd around in flash mobs full of stick-and-iron-rod-carrying men and their families, they are toast. It's our republic if we can keep it. And, it's, like, so, way so, past my bedtime, Larry. I'm out.
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
said on 8/13/2006 @ 5:17 am PT...
It reminds me of a song about the godfather of tricksters who the preznit of the current regime just out tricked:
Tin soldiers and Nixon's coming
We're finally on our own
This summer I hear the drumming
Four dead in Ohio
(Ohio, by Neil Young). Coming to a threatre near you ...
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
said on 8/13/2006 @ 5:54 am PT...
I'm hitting the sack too. One thing's for sure. The Lamont victory hit these guys HARD. Usually after a setback, they spin it into their favor. I expected them to start talking about how this was the greatest thing for them because now they could split the Democrats vote, but they are really going off the deep end with their rhetoric lately.
To the incumbents:
The feeling I get from the street is that people are VERY HUNGRY for JUSTICE, (civil courtroom type so far).
Elections are not just another business deal, and the Constitution Of The United States is not just another goddamn piece of toilet paper.
Let the vote mirror our society, not burn it!
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
said on 8/13/2006 @ 6:33 am PT...
Apologies for going slightly o.t., but it's related, I think.
Sibel Edmonds was interviewed on the Guy James Show this past Friday. Wot Is It Good 4 has the transcript & a link to the audio (which I don't know how to pass on..sorry)...
"...we were excluded from the hearings when the government argued its case and my attorneys and I ...had to leave the courtroom...
...to the few reporters who were there, I said:
'You think this is about one case, about one whistleblower, one FBI translator - this is about all of you. If they get away with this States Secret Privilege, and they are successful with this, they're going to come after you.'
And they are going to go after a lot of other people with this States Secret Privilege. I was the first...
Since my case, this administration has invoked the States Secrets Privilege twenty four times! Recently on this NSA illegal eavesdropping case, on the illegal detaining of this German citizen, in this case in Canada where they held this person illegally, and also they have been going after reporters for reporting what they are supposed to be reporting...
...it's coming true and we are seeing the results of what they started four years ago..."
link to Wot Is It Good 4
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
said on 8/13/2006 @ 6:38 am PT...
Thank you so much for posting this, WP. We really need to know about what's going on down there.
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
said on 8/13/2006 @ 8:14 am PT...
Repression/Revolution is here, folks. Mexico now is only a foretaste of what's to come north of the border. We won't let "them" win, will we?
Yes, WP, thanks so much for this piece. Distractions abound on the MSM, but information is gleanable if one makes the effort. And you have done so.
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
said on 8/13/2006 @ 9:31 am PT...
Same play, different actors Joan. Thanks for the link. Lopez Obrador= Decent wages for Mexicans and the end of the immigration problem in the US. As well as slave labor for repubs. His opponent, sorry I don't know his name,= a fascist continent. Canada's new PM is fascist and Bush's newest best friend. The super highway going through US and delivering plenty of drugs and guns for all. Mexico's election is most important for US as well as them.
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
said on 8/13/2006 @ 9:35 am PT...
I'm glad to see BradBlog citing narconews. The illegal drug business is worth $500 billion a year. (Saudi oil is worth $150 billion a year.) Industries of that magnitude can not function without the cooperation of governments and international banks. Mike Ruppert says our banking system could not exist without the cash flows engendered by the drug industry.
In 2000 Taliban outlawed the opium trade in Afghanistan and cut production to practically nothing. Today, 85% of the world's opium comes from Afghanistan. "Freedom" is, as Rummy said, messy after all.
Sibel Edmonds says that when we go after the drug/ter- rorist /intelligence/banking cartel, a lot of prominent Americans are going to go to jail.
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
said on 8/13/2006 @ 9:49 am PT...
On television this morning a commentator said she was indeed afraid when hearing about the attempted terrorist acts in London. But, at the same time she wondered what the press and government were preventing the people from hearing about by having the war in Iraq and the London terrorist action on the headlines.
Could it be the electronic voting machines scandal?
Could it be revolution brewing next door in Mexico?
I have yet to see any news on those on the telly.
Of course the really big story is "Democracy is dead! Fascism comes to America!" And you know you just won't hear that story anywhere around here.
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
The Unapologetic Mexican
said on 8/13/2006 @ 10:50 am PT...
Yes, good news sources.
And I really think there is some misreading of Comment 1. Just want to add my interpretation. I know a little bit about the retaliation that awaits US protestors. Being one of those lucky "RNC 1800" folks. Now, we were just treated like hell and deprived of water and food, kept cramped in the Tombs, and then in the oil-canceriferous dirty floors of Pier 97 for too long. 50 hours or so. 5 hours of riot zip cuffs yanked so tight you wanted to break your shoulder bones just to get your arms in a different position. The girl who would become my wife two years later started crying from pain after about four hours of those cuffs.
Now...our lives were never in danger. So I don't mean to compare the enormity of death vs. lesser abuse. But there were 1800 arrested. They just took everyone off the streets, no questions. They corralled us and trapped us and turned a dear ear, let you see no lawyer, fingerprinted you, ignored you, questioned you, took notes, kept you hungry and screaming for water in an overstuffed pen like hundreds of animals.
At least 90% of those 1800 cases have seen dropped charges/ACDs/Not Guilty verdicts. It was a test of mass pre-arrest, and there is a big class-action suit rolling still. Many tourists from the US, internation tourists, non-protestestors, Press, elderly were picked up and treated horribly. Just to clear the streets for Bush, as he swept into town so he could prostitute the crater of the WTC in order to rally votes in front of the TV. Into my town. He was afraid of NYC residents making a show in their own town, in a BLUE voting town. The absolute arrogance.
No, we didn't face death that day. But the shape of Fascism flutters in the evening American sky. The mass-pre-arrests at NYC in August of 2004 were, perhaps, but a pinion. No doubt that it was the same bird that VirtualChicano speaks of, though.
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
said on 8/13/2006 @ 12:46 pm PT...
The united states has between 550 and 750 political prisoners who face execution in Guantanamo Bay Prison in Cuba alone. http://sumoud.tao.ca/?q=taxonomy/page/or/33
This does not include the hundreds if not thousands of political prisoners stateside who could easily wind up beaten or stabbed to death by other inmates if the "guards" decide he/she has become problematic.
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
The Unapologetic Mexican
said on 8/13/2006 @ 2:51 pm PT...
Yes, thank you. Gitmo is a much better example than my own comparative day in the park, it's true. Good perspective.
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
said on 8/13/2006 @ 3:12 pm PT...
#22 & #23
And that's what you know about. What lurks out there that is not yet "knowable"?
COMMENT #25 [Permalink]
said on 8/13/2006 @ 4:04 pm PT...
#21 and #22:
Yes, it seems as though I did read message #1 wrongly. A lot of deceit goes on around here.
I am greatly heartened by reading that the two Chicano's on this thread realize not all white people are evil, (just a little stupid and too comfortable)!
Republicans don't respect working people as much as stock market freeloaders whom they worship. There was a time when capitolism almost worked here, but has turned into an abomination.
I found the websites you linked to a little frightening, but very beautiful and intelligent. I'm very glad they are in english because at my age (54) it's not likely I'll learn Spanish too easily.
We recently had an unbelievable immigrant protest march here in Utah. I didn't even know about it until I turned on the TV and thought I was looking at San Francisco. There was another smaller gathering a few days later so I made a sign to show my support for the cause.
Nobody there fit any stereotype I had ever seen of the hispanic culture. Everyone was beautiful and very friendly after I explained my SIGN to the ones who didn't know who the racist Sensenbrenner was.
I'll never forget the images of the huge protest in New York against the Republican Convention. C-SPAN's cameras caught the excitement and anger and filled me with hope. Of course the media buried it under whatever dumbass story they were covering that week.
Good luck to all freedom loving people everywhere!
COMMENT #26 [Permalink]
said on 8/13/2006 @ 4:23 pm PT...
Virtual Chicano #22
How can we ever repay the people we have imprisoned. Evil bastards still spread rumors that the people there are blessed to be "sitting around watching television" while the rest of us "hard working Americans" go to work every day.
I was in jail for just two days, but because I didn't know how long it was going to be, was actually thinking that I wouldn't even wish this on George Bush, (lord forgive me)!
Don't they realize that just being in prison is cruel and unusual. Having a book to read to relieve indescribable boredom is a privilege, not a right. And to be innocent of ever harming anyone on top of that.
COMMENT #27 [Permalink]
said on 8/13/2006 @ 5:52 pm PT...
Joe Cannon at cannonfire.blogspot.com .....has a good insightful take on Obrador...."when north looks south" Would someone more tech savvy than me link it here for others. Thanks in advance
COMMENT #28 [Permalink]
said on 8/13/2006 @ 6:17 pm PT...
COMMENT #29 [Permalink]
said on 8/13/2006 @ 6:37 pm PT...
Thanks Laura, I'm an old geek in training, it might take a while
COMMENT #30 [Permalink]
said on 8/13/2006 @ 8:33 pm PT...
Larry Bergan said "Don't they realize that just being in prison is cruel and unusual. Having a book to read to relieve indescribable boredom is a privilege, not a right. And to be innocent of ever harming anyone on top of that."
I have a younger cousin, about 44 years, who is in the shu at Pelican Bay State Prison. He was validated as a mafia member by the prison staff at Ironwood State Prison.
Burried alive in a concrete tomb. but he is lucky, his release date is 2008. I suspect he'll be out atleast 3 weeks before they come for him again.
His initial crime was breaking and entering back in 1979. His girlfreind was forced to testify against him because the D.A. said they would proescute her and take their baby away and give him (little Johnny) up for adoption.
Building prisons for blacks, "Hispanics" (although I am not Hispanic) and poor whites is a profitable business for the certain people. And trust me, we know who profits from this.
There are 1 million people Incarcerated in the U.S.
N E Way, the comment about most not all whites being evil made me smile. I grew up with white guys here in So. California. I think they were abducted by body snatchers and replaced with pods that have nativist amateur vigilantees inside. I really cannot explain what is being done to my people by these leftovers from the 1980's patriot movements.
It certainly has not brought out the best in me, either.
I use a nome de plume "virtual Chicano" to protect my family. I am the webmaster/owner/editor/php coder ect of ChicanoForums.com
and I wholeheartedly believe that in the future the European settlers in the South West U.S. will live under a Chicano nation state of Aztlan. I believe the conversion will be peaceful and democratic, through the ballot box and I expect strong resistence from the settler.
COMMENT #31 [Permalink]
said on 8/13/2006 @ 8:54 pm PT...
Thanks for the many very good comments on this thread. Virtual Chicano, your insight is greatly appreciated. I hope you will continue to comment here.
COMMENT #32 [Permalink]
said on 8/14/2006 @ 12:01 am PT...
Mep, No problem once you get the hang of it it gets easier. I had a hell of a time but got help from the good people here. Its always nice to be able to help and be helped to learn this this newfangled technology!
COMMENT #33 [Permalink]
said on 8/14/2006 @ 2:51 am PT...
Virtual Chicano #30
"I wholeheartedly believe that in the future the European settlers in the South West U.S. will live under a Chicano nation state of Aztlan"
We're certainly having a frank discussion here which is long overdue and can only result in understanding. Thank You. If anybody else in Salt Lake read that, I'm puzzled as to why I can't hear people yelling "the hell you are" from 10 miles away, but I can't, in honesty, say you're off track!
The immigrant protest was the biggest gathering ever assembled here and people here better wake up to the reasons it happened or face a train wreck very soon. Of course that reason is that there are people in this nation who want slavery introduced back into the economy. I would say three of the big ones are Newt Gingrich, William Bennett and James Sensenbrenner, (Three major proponents of an escalation in drug criminalization).
Of course there are scores of others leaders and thousands of other citizens employed in the "prison industrial complex" infrastructure. As their side likes to say, "It's tearing the fabric of society". I would say it's BURNING the fabric Orrin!
Whatever happens, it is obvious the prison profiteers will have to be exposed. How we ever got to the point of having incarceration traded on the stock market is beyond understanding.
I attended a meeting here where a local group is trying to get laws passed to give large sums of money to inmates who are released after they have been WRONGLY jailed for years. Presently they are given about ten bucks and a handshake. They screened a movie called "After Innocence". A very good movie!
COMMENT #34 [Permalink]
said on 8/14/2006 @ 12:28 pm PT...
Wow. Powerful thread.
BTW, Virtual Chicano, I'm pretty sure there are way more than 1 million people in jail in the USA. I'm thinking it's over TWICE that. And by-and-large, they are poor and undereducated. People of color make up the prison population in percentages FAR greater than their number in society, and for no greater reason than "justice" in this country is completely related to how much money you have.
I think that right now the insane, arrogant, and evil bastards that are running this country are just testing things out and playing little games to see how far they can go. Gitmo is a giant test. The arrests in NY another. Banning people from public events, "free speech zones," arresting reporters (mind you, I don't feel like killing myself to defend the rights of the MSM, but hey, the Bill of Rights is more important than Judith Miller), signing statements --- all tests of their powers. Illegal government propaganda, illegal funneling of tax money to religious organizations, theft of BILLIONS (perhaps TRILLIONS) of dollars from the treasury --- all just tests. Stealing elections and robbing millions of Americans (mostly poor, minority, and Democrat) of their rights to vote --- just a part of the program.
The big question. The open issue. The most frightening unknown, is what they will do if they think that their power is slipping away or in danger. They will use the media to manipulate the electoral system they already have so eloquently corrupted, but if the people rise up (as they did in Connecticut) and tell them that "we're mad as hell and we're not going to take it any more" what will these nutjobs do? A(nother) false flag terrorist attack on the USA coupled with a suspension of the Bill of Rights? Why not? Many American people don't even know what's in the first ten amendments any more thanks to Republican-led cuts in public education over the last 30 years.
The more I read of the years from 1932 to 1942 in Germany, the more similarities I see. The rise of Fascism didn't happen immediately (like an earthquake) but was much more gradual (like global warming). It came in small steps. Up until the moment when Hitler declared himself Fuehrer, everything was a simple step that followed the previous step. Easy to ignore, easy to believe it wasn't that bad, easy to decide it wasn't worth dying to fight.
COMMENT #35 [Permalink]
said on 8/14/2006 @ 2:12 pm PT...
#34 Charlie L
Don't forget Nauwlins. If we knew the whole truth about post Katrina, that in itself would be grounds for impeachment. The Gov. in LA had good reason to not allow her Natl Guard to be Federalized. It made no political sense for her to resist, but resist she did and got hammered for it. Opprotunistic dry run complete with the deployment of Blackwater to "Keep the Peace". Notice that the NRA didn't bitch about the illegal confiscation of firearms as long as they were being taken from black and brown folk..
COMMENT #36 [Permalink]
said on 8/14/2006 @ 3:29 pm PT...
New Orleans and Katrina was definitely an interesting test of new systems.
But here's the rub.
The mass of the National Guards are "not available" in any great number for a truly "national" police action. Fact is, we are NOT a militarized society (notwithstanding the tanks going through Westwood, LA 1 or 2 years ago --- another test) and I'm not sure HOW they will respond if tens of millions of pissed off and disenfranchised and "nothing to lose" people march in the streets of every major city. Local police will be quickly outnumbered --- where will the reinforcements come from? Or, do they perhaps just drop a bioweapon on the first city of massive protests and let the others know that there's more where that came from? Again, is there ANYTHING these psychotics aren't capable of?
Will the local cops carry the water for these neo-con thugs? How many bodies can Blackwater put on the ground in a hurry? And, as mercenary and criminal as they are, are they prepared to make the mental leap from killing "ragheads" (as they are programmed to think of ANYBODY in the Middle East that isn't them) to killing Americans in AMERICAN streets?
And, as much as I have never trusted the military/industrial complex, I think there are at least 20% to 40% of the military ALL ACROSS THE RANKS who will bristle at shooting down Americans on Main Street merely for carrying a sign or refusing to abide by a curfew or other police order. They wouldn't be doing everything in their power to disenfranchise our soldiers in the Iraq and elsewhere if they thought they had their support.
Not that I wish for a military coup (as opposed to the political one we had in December 2000) but I can imagine some of the generals getting together and just saying they will stand down their troops and "see how it goes." Personally, I don't think the US military would WANT to maintain a government after these criminals were ousted, and would probably try REAL hard to return to a democratic system just as soon as possible, perhaps even turning over their prisoners to the World Court to diffuse the risk of counter-revolution.
I don't suppose the Chinese, watching so patiently, will decide to "rescue" us the way we rescued the world from Nazi Germany? Naw --- I think they'll just sit back with their "long view" and let us burn out like a bad tire fire.
My, my but we DO live in interesting times.
COMMENT #37 [Permalink]
said on 8/14/2006 @ 3:46 pm PT...
Heh, Charlie, such a card:
My, my but we DO live in interesting times.
U N D E R S T A T E M E N T !!!
COMMENT #38 [Permalink]
said on 8/14/2006 @ 4:20 pm PT...
If anybody wants to find out more about how legislating morality does immeasurable harm to our society and has been used to the theocrats advantage, read a book published in 1996 by the late Peter McWilliams called "Ain't Nobody's Business If You Do"!
Thankfully written with great humor because of the inevitable anger that hidden truth will invoke, and filled with FANTASTIC quotes and stories you've never heard by famous philosophers, artists, patriots and numbskulls. Here are just three I plucked out in a couple of minutes, (these are by no means the best ones):
- - - - - - -
(are you sure this isn't Ann Colter)
We're in a war. People who blast some pot on a casual basis are guilty of treason.
~DARYL GATES - Los Angeles police chief
- - - - - - -
There's been no top authority saying what marijuana does to you. I tried it once but it didn't do anything to me.
- - - - - - -
We must never forget that if the war in Vietnam is lost the right of free speech will be extinguished throughout the world.
~RICHARD M. NIXON - October 27, 1965
- - - - - - -
(and one of my favorites)
Loretta Young, a devout Catholic (despite having an illegitimate daughter sired by Clark Gable) would fine actors for using coarse language on the movie set— 25 cents for "hell," 50 cents for "damn." One actor tossed her ten dollars, "Here Loretta: go Fuck yourself"
- - - - - - -
Read the REVIEWS here.
The best thing is that the ENTIRE book was offered online for FREE before the author died. Another one of those stupid liberals who thought that getting important information to the people was more important then his personal enrichment. What an idiot!