John, my sympathies.

I will give you a chance to end this debate once and for all. Give me ONE, just ONE, factual example of any of this equipment being used to rig and election or manipulate votes. Now the rules require it to be proven, conviction, etc., not just a bunch of conspiracy theorists wet dreams. That has gotten old, even the press doesn't buy that anymore. No interfering with an election or other, I want ONE SINGLE VERIFIED AND PROVEN ACTUAL ELECTION FIXED USING THESE MACHINES.

I won't hold my breath.

Remember your booger, I mean blog, is suppsed to be based on facts

As incompetent and stupid as you claim these registrars to be, surely someone has slipped up somewhere and has been caught and convited...anyone?

Or just remove my post and pretend you are always right.

Ahhhh! Rick Simon, you sound just like a Sequoia employee. Twisting the story to someone using your system to steal an election. In truth, I have never made that claim about your system (i.e. Sequoia) or any one else's voting machines.

So, let's look at what I can prove.

Jan. 2007 Illinois - Cook County - An investigative panel has found that " 'technology failures in multiple areas' and a lack of testing triggered a spiraling series of glitches that left some results unclear for days. "Although technology problems occurring on Election Night constituted the primary cause of the reporting delays, operational shortcomings in the process leading up to Election Day also played a role in failing to understand and thus mitigate the risks," the report said.

"The flawed user interface on the HAAT [machine designed to transmit vote totals from precincts to central office] led 90 percent of election judges to believe that they had successfully transmitted, whereas only 56 percent had actually done so," the report said.

Dec, 2006 - NJ - Passaic County - Transferred totals don't match machine totals. "As 2006 election returns were electronically transferred from voting districts to the clerk's office, two voting districts had tallies that did not match the voting totals recorded by the machines, [Passaic County Clerk Karen] Brown said."

Nov., 2006 - CO - Denver - Investigation reveals that Denver election officials passed up the tested e-poll book software used by Larimer County, which would have handled the load. Instead they hired Sequoia to develop the software they were not experienced to do. Sequoia officials claim no knowledge of having developed the software. Officials estimate 20,000 voters were disenfranchised on Election Day. Turnout was 68,000.

12/1/06 update. Documents refute Sequoia official's claim that they didn't know the software would be used for voter check-in. City auditor estimates the cost of switching to vote centers was significantly higher than if the city had remained with neighborhood polling places, which would have also avoided the massive Election Day problems.

Nov, 2006 - Denver - Sequoia misprinted the barcodes that identify precincts on absentee ballots, so the county has to sort 70,000 ballots into the 23 different ballot styles. "Sequoia's vice president of communications, Michelle Shafer, did not return four calls and pages seeking comment."

The list of failures in elections goes on and on and on. Intentionally stealing an election? No. Malfeasance? Maybe. Corporate greed? Maybe. A lousy product? Surely.

I thought you wanted to be factually correct? Well, I am not a Sequoia employee, nor an employee of any vendor OR county election office. And yes, you and your cronies Bard and Bev Harris have consistently made claims that election have been "stolen" because of these flawed and insecure systems. I am tired of the same old stories of issues being dredged up every time I ask this question.

And again, you have not named one proven case of manipulation or fraud by these systems. Oh poor poor man, you have yet to rely on the conspiracy wet dreams of your cronies. I did not ask for errors, or problems, or issues. Everything computer based or electronic suffers from those. Even this piece of junk website you hack on every day. It suffers from loading errors and issues every day.

Come back with an actual proven case as stated above and I will donate $1,000 to any charity of your choice and retract everything I have ever said.

Take the challenge or shut up...it's up to you.

BTW - When are you going to run for registrar in a jurisdiction so you can save us all of these crooked, idiots that currently run election and are on the payroll of the vendors.

Just One, the challenge remains!

Exit polls don't lie... Until recently... Or do they at all? They're usually extremely accurate. But really, these machines are totally insecure, and very much COULD be hacked. That is all that is needed for me to want to get rid of them. Would you buy a lock that doesn't stay shut? Or a calculator that works correctly 10% of the time? Screw your stupid "challenge". Those machines suck, plain and simple. There is no need to debate that.

Rick,
I want ONE SINGLE VERIFIED AND PROVEN ACTUAL ELECTION that worked correctly USING THESE MACHINES

I won't hold my breath either.

Oh yeah... and I want it to be proven with conviction, not just nEoCon double speak like we have so often been given. I wander how much of this "evidence" you want so bad has made it into the trash, Bev sure knows about this. It's sometimes hard to prove a case when evidence has been destroyed. But I suppose you have trust in your public officials, and as far as I am concerned is apathy gone wild.
Snap.

Great work, John!

Rick Simon: nothing is proven about election 'fixing'-- yet.

But any companies that supply inferior election products are scum. (In my opinion) And since our entire government is based upon the people's vote, it seems to be a downright act of treason to supply faulty equipment for the sacred act of voting. (In my opinion) This holds true no matter whether the elections were ever actually 'fixed' or not. (In my opinion)

Golly "Rick Simon" -

Given your email address at SacBeeMail.com, and the similar tone you have to one Dan Walters who works at the Sacramento Bee and wrote one of the most atrocious Post-Bowen study articles in America, I'll have to take exception with my friend Gideon. My guess is you don't work for Sequoia, you work for the SacBee. But you'd fit in real well at Sequoia, where folks seem paid to lie and mislead. I'd have expected better from someone in the media, but I've learned better long ago.

By way of sample of Mr. Walter's dreadfully irresponsible and laughable screed:

"[Bowen] cast aside the principle of reasonable doubt when she tried and convicted electronic voting system manufacturers of making unsecure devices"

Tried and convicted, based on a mountain of evidence from dozens of the world's finest computer scientists. Is Walter claiming they *are* secure and Bowen's team of scientists at UC were wrong? Okay, where's the evidence?

The rest of his article included far more bullshit, but you can read that for yourself, as it deserves no more ink here where far more folks would read it than at that rag.

With that out of the way, "Rick Simon" (do you write, as John Gideon and I do under our own names? Or do you hide behind an alias?) demands naively:

I want ONE SINGLE VERIFIED AND PROVEN ACTUAL ELECTION FIXED USING THESE MACHINES.

...And there you hit on our point perfectly.

While, of course, I can point you to thousands and likely millions of voters who were unable to even cast their vote when these machines broke down, I will instead ask you to show me this:

I want ONE SINGLE VERIFIED AND PROVEN TO BE ACCURATE ELECTION ON ONE OF THESE MACHINES

Just one. Prove me to me that a single election, using any DRE in the country, has EVER been counted accurately. Just one. I'm waiting.

I'll be waiting a long time, of course, since you can NEVER do so. Never. And that, sir, is precisely the problem with the machines that you and your tin-foil hat friends don't seem to understand, and thus, you conspire to force all of us to play along with your fantasies.

Until you're able to prove the above, I'll give you an alternate challenge (that you'll also not be able to demonstrate)...I note your follow up reply says "your cronies Bard and Bev Harris have consistently made claims that election have been 'stolen' because of these flawed and insecure systems."

Really? I won't speak for Bev, but I challenge you to show us one instance of where I have done so. That should be an easy one for you, since I do it so "consistently". But you only need to come up with a single instance.

Good luck! We'll be waiting for that as well.

Let's hope the rest of the people associated with the Sacramento Bee live a bit closer to the Reality Based World. Because if everyone at the SacBee is as much of a fool as you are, the MSM'ers are even worse off than I thought.

Boy, you guys sure are easy to prove wrong...again! Still not one real world example. Anyway, here is your answer to "I want ONE SINGLE VERIFIED AND PROVEN TO BE ACCURATE ELECTION ON ONE OF THESE MACHINES." It is plain as day and proven repeatedly: http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/elections_vs.htm, and will be again if Bowen the bonehead has the guts to do the same testing in the February primary.

Also, are you saying not one single election has ever been run correctly on these machines? Hmmmmm...then I guess Bowen wasn’t elected to office legitimately considering these are the same machines used in every jurisdiction in California except one...hahahaha DUH! Think before you speak...uh write.

You freaks have to do better next time, you are losing creditability by the boatload.

BTW: My name is Rick Simon and I don't work for the Bee. That liberal rag drives me nuts, but I appreciate the free email since I am on the road constantly.

Yep, I can totally believe Rick's on the road all the time....

... Rick Simon obfuscated thusly...

"Also, are you saying not one single election has ever been run correctly on these machines?"

Nope. We're saying that you cannot prove that an election has been correctly run on those machines.

"Hmmmmm...then I guess Bowen wasn’t elected to office legitimately considering these are the same machines used in every jurisdiction in California except one...

We cannot prove that she was. All we can do is take heart that Bowen is keeping her word by giving back to California citizens the tools they will need in order to be able to prove that future elections are being run correctly.

"... hahahaha DUH! Think before you speak...uh write."

The native ability of the EVM shill to obstinately miss the point has ceased to astonish... but it can still amuse in a grim sort of way.

Salesman? Investor? Richard Simmons? Is that you again?

Rick Simon doesn't get it. It's simple: If you cannot prove the election was valid, it isn't. If you're in a paperless state, you can't prove it. Even in states with paper audit trails, proving an election is problematic. The point Brad and the others are making, Rick, is that you can't PROVE the validity of any election run on currently available DREs. And that's the problem. Even if an election was not purposely fixed, there are numerous examples of elections with flaws due to malfunctioning or poorly designed equipment and systems. Forget about conspiracy theories. The bottom line is, if you can't prove it, then the validity of the election is unknown. The citizens of this country deserve provable elections. Paper ballots provide tangible evidence, today's DREs and tabulation servers don't.

We don't know if an election has ever been fixed with these systems, and we don't know that NO election has ever been fixed. We just don't know. THAT is the problem.

Regarding Michelle Shafer's press release, I found it striking that she referenced Dan Rather, the independent producer, etc. but never once addressed the long-time (20-30 years) employees who all told the same story with the cameras rolling. Is she saying they're all lying?? Is she saying that "Tom", who worked there for years and claimed he never used a stamp like the one on the documents supplied by Sequoia, is lying? Is she saying the woman who was the controller of the company (the controller, for gosh sakes) is lying? It's interesting how she simply avoided addressing these employees' statements. There are numerous, additional people who worked in that plant at that time. I'd love to hear them all testify under oath. Along with Sequoia management, of course.

Brad and Jack, are absolutely right! From the time the voter marks the box, there should be a verifiable paper trail and if there isn't jail time!

... Mugzi said...

"Brad and Jack, are absolutely right! From the time the voter marks the box, there should be a verifiable paper trail..."

Careful, people might think you're referring to the printouts of the e-voting machines... the "paper trails" that are as hackable as the EVM's, mean nothing, and are not required to be counted anyway.

Originally it was hoped that such "paper trails" would be the solution to the innate vulnerabilities of e-voting machines, but that has turned out to be dead wrong in both theory and practice... because it's the same vulnerable computer that also generates the "paper trails"... and there are no requirements that any one particular "paper trail" actually be counted.

(Debra Bowen changed that for certain machines in CA )

No. A paper ballot is what's needed. A record of the voter's intent that is required to be counted.

"...and if there isn't jail time."

It's long past that, and yet the corporations are still lying nonstop about their machines... regardless of the many times they've been caught at it.

"Rick Walters" said (again, foolishly):

Also, are you saying not one single election has ever been run correctly on these machines?

Nope. Saying that you can't prove that one ever has been. Not one.

Beyond that, I presume your mislinked URL was meant to point to discredited SoS Bruce McPherson's "Parrallel Testing" that he carried out last November (after having the money to do so in the primary, but choosing not to at the last minute).

For the record, that test was carried out by a company associated with the ITAA, the industry trade group to which the voting machine companies have given thousands of dollars in order to form the phony ETC consortium/propaganda/lobbying group.

As well, the testing did not test a single machine used in last November's election, and even at that, it failed. Go read the report. You might try moving beyond the press release that McP put out for it on his last day in office which, incorrectly, led you to believe that "Every vote was counted perfectly in the CA election last year".

He couldn't prove it. And neither can you.

But as someone who hates America and democracy, apparently, such as yourself, I'd expect that doesn't matter much to ya.

We'll keep fighting for American values, such as democracy. You can keep siding with the terrorists, if you wish. It's up to you.

Sorry you couldn't find a single instance of my "consistent" claims that elections have been stolen either.

Your shameful lies would do Michelle Shafer proud! Keep up the bad work, knucklehead

BTW, consider this your warning "Rick". You may post here as much as you like, even if you disagree with me, John or any particular BRAD BLOG articles.

What you may not do is post knowing disinformation. I've let that slide here for you once or twice (eg. your claims that I've "consistently claimed that elections have been 'stolen' on electronic voting machines") But I'll not continue to be as generous while your disingenuous claims and obvious desperate attempts at posting propaganda continue.

So watch it, stick to actual facts (as we do when we report things) or your future comments will, in fact, be moderated and/or banned.

Thanks! And as Michelle would say, have a great day!

Who cares if Brad wrote a year instead of 2/3 of a year?! That easy-to-understand error does not mislead readers to come to incorrect conclusions.

I wish that the good people who are being paid by the income stream being provided to Sequoia by our tax dollars were as concerned about the accuracy of their machines as they are about an irrelevant misstatement of Brad's.

hahaha... I sense anger continuing to brew. No one has ever done anything to your standards have they? I figured it wouldn't take long to be threatened with being banned. You guys can't stand losing such an easy discussion. OH NO! I CAN"T POST ON BRAD'S CONSPIRACY BLOG ANYMORE! WHAT WILL I DO? Oh yeah, I have a job and a family to spend time with. Guess I am the only one here.

For the record, that test was carried out by a company associated with the ITAA, the industry trade group to which the voting machine companies have given thousands of dollars in order to form the phony ETC consortium/propaganda/lobbying group.

Who is associated with ITAA? Visionary Integration Professionals (VIP)? http://www.vipincorp.com Nope, get your facts straight BRAD. They have never done any work with, been associated with, been paid by, or even heard of ITAA. They are a privately held consulting firm who have worked for may federal and state agencies, but been associated with an ITAA. I would love to see how you dreamt up that little conspiracy. Do a little research and get your facts straight. You will get your butt sued by a private company that gets slandered (and your daddy will have to pay). I suggest you remove that statement because I will contact them and point out your slanderous mistatements to them.

And for the record. Do a simple search on BBV for "stolen" or "fraud" and you will see too many posts from Bev, Jim, and the other band of aluminum foil hat wearing bozos making just such claims. Do the same on your site and see how many references I found as well. When put in writing, your own words can bite.

I am bored now. No intellectual challenges here.

"Rick Walters" continued to spew:

No one has ever done anything to your standards have they?

Um, what, like tell the truth? Be able to back up charges with a shred of evidence? Yeah, most people are. You, however, are clearly unable to do so. You've yet to show a single instance from my "consistent" claims that elections have been "stolen", as you charged. And you've yet to prove that a single election - anywhere in the country, at any time ever --- has been counted accurately on these machines.

Yet, you conspiracy theorists believe that it is the reporters and computer scientists and citizens who have ruined confidence in the elections that you people are paid to run. Silly, shameful, democracy-hating you.

Who is associated with ITAA? Visionary Integration Professionals (VIP)? Nope, get your facts straight BRAD....I suggest you remove that statement because I will contact them and point out your slanderous mistatements to them.

:-) Silly you.

Please do contact them (and it would be libel, not slander, by the way, were you correct. Which you're not. But I'd expect no less from a fact-free disinfo operative troll such as yourself).

Do a simple search on BBV for "stolen" or "fraud" and you will see too many posts from Bev, Jim, and the other band of aluminum foil hat wearing bozos making just such claims. Do the same on your site and see how many references I found as well. When put in writing, your own words can bite.

I see. Which part of my earlier post, which included "I won't speak for Bev, but I challenge you to show us one instance of where I have done so...you only need to come up with a single instance" did you have trouble reading?

Please show me where "in writing" I have said any such thing. Ever. Since I've done so "consistently", as you told us earlier, it should be easy for ya to find!

Of course, you can't, because you're either a fool or a liar or --- as your comments would suggest --- both.

Either way, you demonstrate everything that is wrong with the unAmerican companies and values you are fighting for. So thank you for demonstrating to the world, for the thousands who will read your silly words, how desperate and discredited you dopes are.

Last chance to come up with a single piece of evidence for any claim you have made here. Otherwise, if you continue to waste everyone's time, you will be gone, and there will be one less person to defend and apologize for those, like yourself, who clearly hate America.

Have a great day, sexy!

I love you Brad. You still think I am Dan Walters. Okay, fine, give me a call then and let's discuss.

Keep talking and posting, YOU'RE lack of evidence just shines great with every word.

My work is done here, you are freaking out losing sleep and calling me unAmerican because I disagree with paranoid, daddy-funded, silver spoon licking, uninformed bone heads who like to create fear and panic to justify their living.

You are right about one thing...I am outa here. My work is done...HAHAHAHAHA

...I disagree with paranoid, daddy-funded, silver spoon licking, uninformed bone heads who like to create fear and panic to justify their living.

Phew, at least he's not a * worshiper then....

Rick Simon has a sacbeemail.com e-mail address cause it's free? Does anybody here relate to using a private companies e-mail address because they are on the road a lot and because it is free? Are you kidding me?

I can't make any sense out of that rationale. Rick Simon is obviously not Rick Simon.

And Not Rick Simon seems pretty vigilant about defending large corporations with large government contracts and their lack of transparency. Can you blame him? I'm sure we can all claim to know people passionate about such things.

I have an article here about Diebold and the recent Iowa straw poll.

{fixed your link (and I took it to mean he is a paperboy) --99}

Sheesh. Good riddance Mr non-fact-checker. Don't let the door hit ya...

By the very fact that Rick Simon here is chosing to defend the voting mchines tells us a lot abut him. He hates democracy. He can't stand the fact that other people have a vote and demand to have that vote counted correctly. After all it would mean that the person who really won the most votes would win office, not the person who won because 18,000 votes went missing. It also means that Rick doesn't care if his vote counts they way he intended to vote. Do you care enough, Rick, if it was your vote that was lost or miss counted becuse of these machines.
Also, not only does Rick hate democracy, he also hates the idea of fredom of choice. If, Rick, you defend a system that is known to switch votes, you stand against another American value. By defending systems that are clearly not up to job of ensuring free and democratic elections in which every persons vote is counted the way they intended then you have no right to call yourself an American. You're neither an American nor a patriot. You can't stand the fact that someone else might have a different view from you. You hate freedom because you hate fredom of choice. By defending these machines you defile you're own country's founding principles.
Face the facts Rick. If you want to live in a country where the people's will doesn't matter, then go and live in Zimbabwe. Mugabe runs the elections just the way you like them. People vote one way and Mugabe declares to the rest of the world that everybody voted him and we are expected to belive him just because he says so. Is that how you want elections to be run in this country? Defending the electronic voting catastrophies means exactly that.
Shame on you Rick. Be an American, defend your right to vote.

Brad;

He's a button-pusher. A corporated-funded, troll/shill button-pusher. The buttons he pushes are connected to everyone's "ad-hominim" response mechanism. The moment you called him "un-American," he got you to play his game.

Now, you're responses were quite level-headed. Even so, the fact is that the Rick Simon shill is --- in this prevalent era --- quite American ... his hyphenization (or at least one of them) label is Corporate-American. Another is Neo-con-American (a double-hypho ... ). And regardless of how well you remained focused, he still got you --- if only just a little bit --- to play his game.

You've got to stay away from their little button-pushing games. AHBP (ad-hominim button pushing) is a rather severe malady of the corporate shill set, of which Rick Simon is a terminally infected carrier.

Don't let him infect you.

DanD

Not to worry, Brad's buttons didn't even start to be pushed by the paperboy. He's been dealing with these shills for years. It turns into something like KP duty, or taking out the trash. A drag, but necessary. They're so transparent you can spot them immediately and it's really tempting to just quietly ban them and forget it, but Brad lets them expose their sickness to everyone. Letting them expose that sickness keeps everyone aware of how ugly it is out there. People need to see that there are shill mills whose purpose is expressly to undermine the Constitution, whether the shills themselves even realize it, and we just have to keep going through this crap until we prevail.

There are even signs of good progress. They sic their more literate droids on us nowadays, because their rank and file trolls were not getting anywhere at all. If you look closely, you can see that neither are the more literate trolls.

99 -

"Taking out the trash."

Perfect. Couldn't a said it better myself

And the silly boy left a silly "paper trail" showing himself to be an uninformed boob in the bargain. Knuckleheads like that (and Ken Hajjar of LHS Associates and "Wally O'Diebold" etc.) make my life a *lot* easier.

So no complaints here

Yep. A button pusher alright... the same buttholes that giggle with glee when they push the big red vote button, are the same type that lust to push the big red launch button too. What a queef.

Pat # 31
I had to look up your word "queef". my head off!

Electronic scrap & salvage prices are still good . . .

Rick Simon #3, #5, #11, #21, #23

Brad indicated that you were engaging in "dreadfully irresponsible and laughable screed" (post #10). Some will think that was a subconscious reference to my criticism of the anti-EVM on this blog from time to time.

As a critic of the EI movement (for reasons other than yours), I realize that one must use facts, rather than emotional want, to establish a premise.

Otherwise the entire discourse downstream from that premise will be logically flawed, ending in a flawed deduction. (I assume you know symbolic logic and its derivitives even tho you have demonstrated that you not mastered them.)

Beyond a reasonable doubt, many election officials have been convicted of criminal election activing during the 2004 presidential election in the state of Ohio. Convicted. In jail.

It is beyond doubt that some 55 or so, out of 88, counties there destroyed the EVM and other records of those elections, even tho state law says don't, and a federal court also ordered them not to. In my experience that contempt is an indication of a coverup and criminality. Those criminal activities have not yet been dealt with by the courts, but will be. Stay tuned.

I will not mention other states at this time, not wanting to inundate you with facts, since you seem to have few experiences with facts.

Even as their fealless boss Ken Blackwell owned stock in an EVM company he chose, as Secretary of State and Cheney / Bush campaign chair, to count the votes. An EVM company giving magnificent monitary donations to the bushie campaign, and an owner who said he would do all he could to make sure Bush won the election.

Beyond doubt the EVM machines were diagnosed with terminal insecurities in a recent California official state diagnosis. And yet your fantasies about EVM machines continue.

I have no doubt whatsoever that Diebold machines had an illegal part to play in skewing the election in Ohio in 2004, and the evidence of that is overwhelming. But I do not think it was an accidental part those machines played.

Enough of this bardy, whimsical tripe ... lest you give the weak minded another opportunity to think my criticism is like yours.

RE post #34 ... typos:

"demonstrated that you not mastered them" should be "demonstrated that you have not mastered them"

"criminal election activing" should be "criminal election activities"

DanD #28; Agent 99 #29

The button pushing or not inquiry, eh? Blogs are evolving and I as watch them they are developing embryonic adjudication systems.

I studied the adjudication systems in the art world, and specifically art juries some time back.

Both blog adjudication and art ajudication follow a discernable pattern, and one can say writing is as much an art form as for instance painting is.

On blogs the adjudication system judges writing, and in the art world art juries adjudicate "art". The terms are "is it good or bad and how much so".

The statement DanD made:

The buttons he pushes are connected to everyone's "ad-hominim" response mechanism. The moment you called him "un-American," he got you to play his game.

applies to activities on every blog thread, and is undeniably correct in the abstract. We undoubtably have ad hominem "buttons". And as always, the issue is not that buttons can be pushed, but the real question is were they pushed.

On Brad's behalf another admin says "no", speaking for Brad.

(... continued ...)

post #36 continued ...

Which begs the question, "who should decide". Under anglo saxon common law, in this case Brad and 99 are both "interested parties" who would not be qualified to sit on "their own jury" or "judge their own case". Neither would Rick Simon.

Can you imagine a case where one of the parties or that party's friend or cohort got to decide? Can you imagine a judge saying "Ok Mr. Defendant, what is your decision"?

Brad indicates that he will banish Rick Simon if he does not tell they truth, even as Rick Simon adheres to the notion that he is the one telling the truth.

And so, "here come de judge". Yes, someone has to exercise power and settle the matter. Brad has the power and has extended that power to 99. Like the vast majority of blogs, it is an adjudicative dictatorship, albeit a benevolent one in this case. As long as Brad and 99 stay benevolent, it works.

(... continued ...)

post #37 continued ...

But the sophistication of history tells us that shit happens. Good people can go bad. Benevolent dictators can become tyrannical. So, it seems to follow that improvement is needed in the blogosphere. Don't hold your breath.

No widespread inroads have been made into the art world as regards art juries, and I can't see why blogs would be any different.

In sophisticated systems a 'disinterested' (unbiased) third party or parties will make the decision, and in the current stage of development of the blogosphere, the blogmeister or admins who are paid in one way or another by the blogmeister will make the decisions. And bloggers will be treated fair, or not, depending on the benevolence and wisdom or lack thereof of that system.

The EVM companies do not want to be judged fairly. They want to smooze election officials and pay the salary of those who test their machines. Even the Decider in Chief, as one admin of power sees himself, sees himself as a dissident in his own world.

My suggestion to blog owners is to first create a structure that has the appearance of fairness, then follow up on that and select people who are unbiased to fit into and bring that structure to life to adjudicate such issues.

The structure alone will not suffice, however, but when the structure itself is faulty because of its being a dictatorial structure, there is greater risk of unfairness. Don't be like the bankers in the commercial who see small business owners as insects, and swat them ad hoc out of their world.

I guess poor deluded Rick is fine with "Faith Based Voting" well the rest of us are not.

I believe the information that Robert Kennedy Jr. and Mike Papantonio gathered more than proves that the elections were stolen.

http://www.rollingstone....the_2004_election_stolen