READER COMMENTS ON
"Poll: Thompson Drops Below Ron Paul, Huckabee in New Hampshire"
(13 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
said on 11/19/2007 @ 8:02 pm PT...
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
JUDGE OF JUDGES
said on 11/19/2007 @ 10:09 pm PT...
Soul Rebel ain't that the truth.
The first thing that comes to mind about ole rudy was him running round
the city on 911 like a chicken with it's head cut off cause he had no where to go !
He had put the control center / bunker in the trade center. . .
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
said on 11/20/2007 @ 1:59 am PT...
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
said on 11/20/2007 @ 5:20 am PT...
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
said on 11/20/2007 @ 5:37 am PT...
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
said on 11/20/2007 @ 5:55 am PT...
@soul rebel (knew the spinsters would spin)
yeah that is right...that is exactly what the constitution says (have you ever read it?).
the state shall never deny the individual rights to freedom of religion.
just like hitler, stalin, mao, and the mussolini did- they restricted free religion. we are now seeing it done in this country by the same people that supported hitler, mao, stalin, and mussolini. those people are the same that attemoted a fascist coup in this country in 1933. they are: Heinz, Rockefeller, Prescott Bush, Packard, IBM, GE, Morgan.
It is time for freedom for Americans rather than ownership for fascist elites.
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
said on 11/20/2007 @ 6:19 am PT...
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
said on 11/20/2007 @ 3:40 pm PT...
WOW. LOL. Have I read the Constitution? I'll get back to you when I find any mention of God in it....it would appear that you haven't read it, and neither has Ron Paul, at least he hadn't when he wrote that piece back in 2003. Paul says "the drafters of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, both replete with references to God".
I say again "LOL" and who is the spinster? The Declaration does not mention God either. It mentions "Divine Providence", a "Creator", a "Supreme Being", and "Nature's God" - none of which are any direct reference to a Christian God, or any other monotheistic entity.
So, I would check your facts if I were. I'll post them later because I don't have time right now, but the founding fathers were most certainly NOT Christian, they were Deists at best, and this includes Jefferson, Madison, and Franklin. Adams, however, was a Christian, and made many references to his faith, while the others basically said, "none of your business" on the matter of faith. Jefferson said, "What harm does it do my neighbor to say I worship one god or twenty...it neither picks his pocket nor breaks his leg."
There are many relevant passages from Jefferson and Madison in particular, the two presidents whom I revere the most, that absolutely speak of their intent of Church and State separation. So when Ron Paul says "The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers" he is just plain wrong, and you'll have to accept it.
Proud to be a sane, rational atheist
Candidate, US Congress, New Mexico CD 1
PS, nobody's trying to take Christmas away from you. Just don't expect public funds to pay for such celebrations. And our morality as a nation is not based on the ten commandments, and they do not belong in our courthouses or any other publicly funded space. The first commandment is antithetical to freedom of religion.
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
said on 11/20/2007 @ 3:57 pm PT...
please show me in the constitution where it talks about the separation of church and state.
and like many rhode scholars or CFR pundits, your misinterpretation is damaging. What Jefferson, Madison, Franklin stressed was the need to keep religious beliefs available to all and having the state never encroach on the freedom of religion. Jefferson in particular was adamant about the insanity of the state actually killing and torturing those that wished to practice their faith. Our country was founded after the Inquisition and the tyranny that exists when people are not allowed to practice their beliefs. And I personally could care less about christmas because I am a muslim. But I do know that once you abolish the freedoms of one faith to practice, you roll down a slippery slope. Sure I get harrassed since Cheney's New Pearl Harbor, but now all Americans are waking up to see that this war is not against muslims, it is against non-elites.
Ron Paul is the only candidate that can rescue the economy, rescue our standing in international affairs, and restore our freedoms from this increasing police state.
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
said on 11/20/2007 @ 4:13 pm PT...
They [the clergy] believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion. -Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush, Sept. 23, 1800
Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination. -Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom
A truly incredible man!
Please read Dr. Paul's comment at the end of your link:
Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people’s allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation’s Christian heritage. Christmas itself may soon be a casualty of that war.
In other words, this country's foundation was on the rights of the individual rather than adherence to "the state" as the ultimate authority. And how important that lesson is today!
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
said on 11/20/2007 @ 4:36 pm PT...
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
said on 11/20/2007 @ 5:09 pm PT...
WOW - you are correct that the Constition does not specifically use the words "Separation of Church and State" - but that was not the entirety of Ron Paul's argument. The Constitution does not mention God - and it does not mention God for a reason, that reason being that we have a secular government. The secular government does not encroach on people's freedom to practice whatever religion they choose, they just cannot do it on public property at public expense, and that seems to be just what a good number of Christians want to do. I would defend utterly any American's right to practice the religion of their choice that is a constitutional approach to the situation, and something that the ACLU defends, an organization that I contribute to. You, and any other, may celebrate Christmas, Hannukah, or whatever you want in your churches, temples, mosques, homes, places of business (if it is management's decision to do so). These are entirely private and the government has no right whatsoever to encroach on this. But in a public place, a place that is funded by taxpayer dollars, then no, we should not be celebrating one faith, regardless of whether it is the dominant faith. Trust me that any goverment encroachment into the private sphere of worship I understand is illegal, and I have no quarrel with it.
Here are some good Madison quotes, since Paul said that the fathers had not written on it:
It was the belief of all sects at one time that the establishment of Religion by law, was right & necessary; that the true religion ought to be established in exclusion of every other; and that the only question to be decided was which was the true religion. The example of Holland proved that a toleration of sects, dissenting from the established sect, was safe & even useful. The example of the Colonies, now States, which rejected religious establishments altogether, proved that all Sects might be safely & advantageously put on a footing of equal & entire freedom.... We are teaching the world the great truth that Govts do better without Kings & Nobles than with them. The merit will be doubled by the other lesson that Religion flourishes in greater purity, without than with the aid of Gov. [James Madison, Letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822, The Writings of James Madison, Gaillard Hunt]
What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not. [Pres. James Madison, A Memorial and Remonstrance, addressed to the General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Virginia, 1785]
It was the Universal opinion of the Century preceding the last, that Civil Government could not stand without the prop of a religious establishment; and that the Christian religion itself, would perish if not supported by the legal provision for its clergy. The experience of Virginia conspiciously corroboates the disproof of both opinions. The Civil Government, tho' bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability and performs its functions with complete success; whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people have been manifestly increased by the TOTAL SEPARATION OF THE CHURCH FROM THE STATE. [James Madison, as quoted in Robert L. Maddox: Separation of Church and State; Guarantor of Religious Freedom]
Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion & Govt in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history [attempts where religious bodies had already tried to encroach on the government]. [James Madison, Detached Memoranda, 1820]
...several of the first presidents, including Jefferson and Madison, generally refused to issue public prayers, despite importunings to do so. Under pressure, Madison relented in the War Of 1812, but held to his belief that chaplains shouldn't be appointed to the military or be allowed to open Congress. [Richard Shenkman, I Love Paul Revere, Whether He Rode Or Not]
The experience of the United States is a happy disproof of the error so long rooted in the unenlightened minds of well-meaning Christians, as well as in the corrupt hearts of persecuting usurpers, that without a legal incorporation of religious and civil polity, neither could be supported. A mutual independence is found most friendly to practical Religion, to social harmony, and to political prosperity. [James Madison, Letter to F.L. Schaeffer, Dec 3, 1821]
WOW - in terms of what we might agree or disagree on about the state of our government, I would venture that there is probably more of the former. And I will fully agree that if Ron Paul gets the Republican nomination that it will be a positive step for conservatives. He is certainly less insane than many of is Republican competitors. I will read the link you provided, but I think he got it dead wrong in the Lew Rockwell piece I linked. Especially about the intent of the secular left to ban religion outright. This is simply not the case.
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
said on 11/20/2007 @ 8:41 pm PT...
Newt Gingrich should jump in the race.
There is plenty more room in the clown car for one more clown.