READER COMMENTS ON
"NY TIMES MAGAZINE RUNS 'MASSIVE, SCARY' COVER STORY ON AMERICA'S E-VOTING DISASTER"
(49 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
said on 1/4/2008 @ 7:14 pm PT...
Vote fraud,yet another infringement on our rights by the gov't. Add it to the ever-growing list of violations:
They violate the 1st Amendment by opening mail, caging demonstrators and banning books like America Deceived (book) from Amazon.
They violate the 2nd Amendment by confiscating guns during Katrina.
They violate the 4th Amendment by conducting warrant-less wiretaps.
They violate the 5th and 6th Amendment by suspending habeas corpus.
They violate the 8th Amendment by torturing.
They violate the entire Constitution by starting 2 illegal wars based on lies and on behalf of a foriegn gov't.
Support Dr. Ron Paul and save this country.
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
said on 1/4/2008 @ 7:23 pm PT...
Make that "election fraud", Mark.
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
said on 1/4/2008 @ 8:28 pm PT...
They're right on schedule, aren't they? Soon as it looks as if Dems may win the WH, suddenly Corpress will alert the entire country to the dangers of e-voting. If a Dem wins, we are going to see contested election results all over the friggin' country. Asshats.
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
Grizzly Bear Dancer
said on 1/4/2008 @ 8:29 pm PT...
People in government are such nice honest people especially at the FEDERAL level with their good intentions exemplified by their every action and heck, their god is channeling them constantly with good ideas. If you review 7 years of bush/cheney policy changes and leadership, you will agree that their interests are being protected. Just trust them, thank them with emails, and bless their hearts because they are fighting an enemy that had an idea to fly airplanes into FEDERAL BUILDINGS. That's because these Arab tERRORIST types don't like our freedom or democracy. But thanks to bush and cheney, we're going to make sure Iraq has our style of democracy.
Unfortunately, Federal World Trade Tower Building #7 didn't have Arab hijackers or airplanes to crash into it before the bombs planted in the steel concrete building caused it's 6 second collapse into dust 10 1/2 hours after the FEDERAL WORLD TRADE TWIN TOWERS fell. So only concentrate on the Twin Towers when you think about 9/11 like the corporate mass media and no worries. Just feel good that the bush/cheney government alquada thwarters have kept America safe from any other FEDERAL BUILDING attacks.
2008 - U.S. people abolish electronic computer voting machines or enjoy the corporate 1%er criminal lier candidate installed as your leader.
2008 - U.S. people order the Bush/Cheney administration to be prosecuted in a world court for 9/11 war crimes, ordering the bombing attacks of Iraq and Afganistan, and the subsequent invasion/occupation responsible for the deaths of thousands and thousands of families, almost 4000 military deaths, and 3000 American civilian deaths on 9/11/2001 for their own personal gain.
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
said on 1/4/2008 @ 8:45 pm PT...
They have already been up to their old/new tricks this election cycle.Tip of the iceberg...Dems vs Reps=you have no choice but the chosen pukes.This story may not even run.I'm voting for Dr.Ron Paul with a paper ballot.These machines have been a fraud since day 1.
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
said on 1/4/2008 @ 9:42 pm PT...
The elite have been "stealing" the election for many decades. Actually is could only be considered "stealing" if there was actually any legitimacy in the first place. It is just a game the elite like to play with the sheeple. Unfortunately the sheeple keep playing it and asking for more. The candidates(puppets) have been promising change for decades, but things are actually getting worse. The sheeple have been protesting against this or that candidate for decades, the only problem they have only been fighting against other sheeple instead of the elite. It is like going to a movie 10 times and expecting it to be different each time. It is time to wake up. A politician is a politician.
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
said on 1/4/2008 @ 11:16 pm PT...
So what else is new....This BS all started with the Kennedy killing......how many times has a president been elected by the people since then ......???????? Bus and his fathers crones stole bioth elections outright...they got sloppy and greedy which is always the downfall of evil men....Soon the wicked witch is dead but this time she will burn instead of melt.......And so goes the Phoenix.......
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
said on 1/5/2008 @ 2:55 am PT...
Better late than never?
It begs the question, is the MSM finally in the realm of the EI movement blogs like Bradblog, Velvet Revolution, and Black box voting (to name a tiny few)?
A careful reading of the landscape, such as Agent 99 did at post #2, will lead to the pondering of what Jen #3 posted, which I think is the crux of the matter.
We have been bemoaning the advent of Amurka, which blotted out America thru the prostitution by the MSM spreading their deceit infected legs to fascist leaning government propaganda.
We have been bemoaning the MSM's utter contempt for us as we have promoted the obvious (electronic machines are a f**king disaster) reality.
Now we cannot, thru the intoxication of hope, look the other way.
Nevertheless, the proper amount of hope which Brad signals, is the only door we have to exit Amurka and get back into America.
The odds are that STU #6 is correct, but as Forrest Gump once said "your chances of winning the lottery go up astronomically if you buy a ticket".
But ... is the lottery rigged ...?
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
said on 1/5/2008 @ 3:45 am PT...
The MSM today seems to be the cup within which the spirit of the Loyalists dwells.
Like the Loyalists of olde, they accuse their opponents of being disloyal.
And that is correct, but it misses the point. The point is what are we loyal or disloyal to?
They were loyal to King George as the MSM presstitutes still are today, and we were loyal to the principles of the Bill of Rights, as we still are today.
To hell with their bill of wrongs in their Amurkan Constitution, and to heaven with our Bill of Rights in our American Constitution!
You may steal our elections and impose your bill of wrongs for awhile, but you can not take the spirit of the Bill of Rights from Americans forever.
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
said on 1/5/2008 @ 4:43 am PT...
What makes your premise all the more believable is the timing of a massive propaganda campaign initiated by the apologists in the military indistrial complex ... thru their media whores of course.
They are now saying we won the Vietnam war and the Iraq war:
Right-wing pundit Michael Barone has published a column on the surge in Iraq that may be the clearest expression so far of the American triumphalism over the U.S. military and Iraq that emerged in 2007. The current popularity of that idea reflects the degree to which the apologists for war, having been discredited earlier on Iraq, are now on the offensive ... the United States actually won the Vietnam War, and it was all because of the brilliant strategy of Gen. Creighton Abrams.
(Gareth Porter at Huffpo, emphasis added). Yep, if every "turrist" (i.e. anything that moves) is killed there will be no more "violence".
It figures right into the mechanisms of deceit that are the greatest business in Amurka today.
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
said on 1/5/2008 @ 7:24 am PT...
The article achieves a broad goal of helping the public realize that something is amiss, but then goes astray.
It asserts, basically, that if optical scan machines are used all will be well. The issue is counting votes in secret, not which kind of secret counting mechanism to use.
The article misses the obvious real risk --- insider ability to change results without detection --- in order to talk about whether a "hack" (outside attack) has been proven. The real issues are whether the public can see the chain of custody and whether the public can see the counting. And right now, the public isn't even allowed to see what goes into the counter to compare it with what comes out! Focusing the issue on which kind of black box to use misses the point: Votes are being counted in secret and insiders control the secret counting.
And its conclusions about how this came to be in the first place come close to whitewash. Everyone had good intentions, no questioning of the "experts" who approved this stuff, or of the fact that the same people are still running the show.
The good news is this: As the public becomes more aware of the general issue, there are always many members of the public who have the common sense to ask the right questions.
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
said on 1/5/2008 @ 7:42 am PT...
Just read the NYT article, available now online. Nothing new to readers of the Brad Blog (even occasional visitors, like myself), except that it's the Sunday NYTimes Magazine.
Unfortunately, the overall tone of the article strikes me as somewhat dismissive (e.g., "The earliest critiques of digital voting booths came from the fringe. . . scared-senseless computer geeks"). Golly darn, every technology's got some problems, don't it?
It's also highly anecdotal, and while it hints at the possibility of intentional large-scale fraud, it skirts this issue. Nor does it dig into the political leanings of the ownership of the major e-vote manufacturers. (No mention of the curious observation that most "accidental errors" seem to favor conservatives. . . )
And how an article on this subject, of this length, can fail to mention The Brad Blog is beyond me (but I guess that's just the MSM for you).
Nevertheless, while those who have been following the matter for years may be disappointed with Thompson's article, it may be at about the right level for introducing the issue to those who haven't been watching.
It'll be interesting and informative to see what reaction this article generates.
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
said on 1/5/2008 @ 8:32 am PT...
When asked in 1976 whether the CIA had ever told journalists, working as its paid agents, what to write, former CIA director William Colby replied, "Oh, sure, all the time."
I suppose I should be excited that something is being exposed, but just what is their purpose? I do not trust anything coming from the M$M. Whatever their agenda is won't be good for us.
Could this be the seed to suspend the elections? If we were to experience another false flag attack, coupled with the exposure of the E-voting fraud would that be enough for them to state that until order can be restored and proper election system put in place, to up-hold the integrity (puke here) of the democratic system ... blah, blah, blah ...
Whatever it is think the worst and multiply it a thousand times and you might come close.
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
said on 1/5/2008 @ 8:58 am PT...
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
said on 1/5/2008 @ 9:41 am PT...
The real scary part is that the populace actually think that voting can be changed. It has always been one of the things the elite use to keep the sheeple busy. Years ago there used to be a myth that anybody could grow up and be Pres. The only way you can be pres is if you are related to most of the previous pres and thus related to the British Crown and have Rockefeller's blessing(both Dem and Rep). Bush said it best when he said the Constitution was worthless. This was a statement of fact instead of a wish. The constitution is worthless because it has always been worthless. It was only put there to keep the populace happy. Amerika was founded by the elite for the elite. We the sheeple are only cannon fodder. Everything in the "democratic" process is an illusion. In fact everything we see today is an illusion.
Hey if I am wrong, I am wrong, at least I will see it coming. The sheeple on the other hand are in for a rude awakening if I am right. The sheeple need to remove the tunnel vision for their eyes. There are many symptoms of the problems, but only one problem. The sheeple need to get their eyes off of the different symptoms(of which there will always be more and more) and instead focus on the problem(the elite). As long as the sheeple focus on the symptoms the elite will continue to feed them to us.
SHEEPLE it is time to WAKE UP. Just as we have seen over the many decades that whether we "vote" Dem or Rep things always get worse, this is the only change that actually takes place. This is still like watching a movie several times and expecting it to change each time.
SHEEPLE it is time to WAKE UP.
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
said on 1/5/2008 @ 10:16 am PT...
So... somebody please tell us what needs to be done... in terms of actually fixing this problem. The answers have to be simple and to the point.
Can anyone put the solutions inside of these three?
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
said on 1/5/2008 @ 10:21 am PT...
...my answers are not palatable.
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
said on 1/5/2008 @ 10:48 am PT...
Hand count paper ballots...
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
said on 1/5/2008 @ 12:29 pm PT...
Here are some suggestions that might help:
1. Elections should be held on two consecutive days, which are declared work holidays for the entire nation. This will allow people who "must" work to find alternates for a day.
2. Political contributions must be limited to private citizens and not exceed $25 per year.
3. The fairness doctrine must be reinstated and extended to all MSM.
4. Paper ballots must be used and voters must also be given a carbon copy of their cast ballot, which they must retain for seven years in legible form along with their tax records.
5. People must learn to fly by flapping their arms.
I included #5 because I wanted something that had at least a physically reomote possibilty of happening.
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
said on 1/5/2008 @ 1:14 pm PT...
Jack Nachamkin -
The first three issues you mention have to do with an entirely different issue than the mechanics of elections, which are discussed in the article.
The point of taking a copy of the ballot home is a horrible idea, as it will lead to vote buying/selling.
To answer Pat's questions, in
three five easy steps, I'd say:
1) All DRE (usually known as touch-screen) voting systems must be banned from elections, and never used again. Period. That's with or without a so-called "paper trail".
2) There must be a paper, hand-marked ballot for ever vote cast.
3) All paper ballots must be counted at the precinct, on election night, in view of any and all observers.
4) Results must be posted at the precinct before any ballots are removed to be sent back to the central county headquarters (where I don't mind at all if they are counted again, in full public view of everybody.)
5) A hand-count spot check (sometimes called an "audit") of ballots shall be performed, of a randomly selcted percentage large enough to assure a scientific statistical confidence rate of 99%, that the original results were correct (and I'd prefer if that spot check be done at the precinct, on election night, instead of post-election at the county, but I'll take what I can get for now.)
NOTE: The suggestions above apply no matter if the ballots are counted by hand or by op-scan at the polling place. The key, as Bev Harris rightly points out above, is full public transparency at every step, and checks and balances at every step, in every point of the process.
Hope that helps, Pat! Please spread the word! And thanks for asking!
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
said on 1/5/2008 @ 4:46 pm PT...
I like the ideas...this place has some of the best around. My question should have been stated more clearly: What are the simplest three procedures to ensure these ideas take hold? I can say how bad the system is all day long, and have the right(common sense) ideas, but what are the most effective ways of bringing change about?
My back-assward 3 come to this:
Now, that's in my opinion the most simple answer, but we all know that's not gonna happen
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
said on 1/5/2008 @ 6:59 pm PT...
*looking at a steady diet of coffee and Zantac from now until the election*
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
said on 1/5/2008 @ 7:44 pm PT...
The problem with electronic voting, the technology should have never been used to tabulate votes, it should have only been used to assist the disabled to PRINT paper ballots to be hand counted with public oversight.
So stop tabulating votes with electronics! PRINT PAPER BALLOTS, HAND COUNT THEM WITH PUBLIC OVERSIGHT.
We can talk about money and studies and waste, or get confused about policies and procedures, or technicians vs. computer scientists vs programmers, or journalists vs bloggers.
It's all going nowhere, except for the continued loss of civil rights by those who are in power breaking the Constitution. It's all a waste of OUR time, time that is needed to get this problem fixed quickly. The slower it takes to fix this problem correctly, the more damage is done to our country's Constitution. (And other countries)
These machines are a national security nightmare, we wouldn't have a war right now if Bush wasn't elected by the Supreme Court!!!!!!!
Who's Doping the parts? Who's Coding? Where do the LCD's come from.. Blagh... it don't matter when someone doesn't want you to have the Constitutional right to vote.
We'll never have our Constitutional right to vote restored again until these devices (ALL OF THEM) that tabulate actual votes are outlawed everywhere.
If we can't vote then we no longer live in a Constitutional Republic. That should be the topic for the New York Times.
I didn't expect nothing but spin on this issue and that what I see. No solution given. Where many here have given you a working solution many times, and many times cheaper than all this vaporware crap.
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
said on 1/5/2008 @ 8:23 pm PT...
"It’s difficult to say how often votes have genuinely gone astray. Michael Shamos, a computer scientist at Carnegie Mellon University who has examined voting-machine systems for more than 25 years, estimates that about 10 percent of the touch-screen machines 'fail' in each election. “In general, those failures result in the loss of zero or one vote,” he told me. 'But they’re very disturbing to the public.' "
THE LOSS OF ZERO OR ONE VOTE???? talk about deceptive interviewing! A "computer scientist" who trusts computers so much that he can confidently KNOW that? Idiot or misquote...
COMMENT #25 [Permalink]
said on 1/5/2008 @ 9:16 pm PT...
Politicians get elected quite a lot of the time because they just happen to find some missing votes, this has been going on for decades. Dead people, people that are non-existent, etc. have been voting for decades. There is always been corruption in voting. The chance of the elite allowing the masses to oversee the election is a waste of time because the masses are divided and will be unable to come to a conclusion, plus many of the masses also work for the elite. The main problem is that each side of the masses think that the other group of the masses is the culprit when in reality it is the elite. I have read a lot of different blogs, etc from both sides and the chances of them getting together is about ZERO because they think the other side is the one cheating. The ideological views of each side are too far apart.
Playing the elites game is like watching a movie many times and expecting a different ending each time.
Comment 21 seems like a good place to start.
COMMENT #26 [Permalink]
said on 1/5/2008 @ 9:50 pm PT...
Yes, the elites have been stealing elections for a long time, like one commentor said...BUT...now it's easier and can be done by fewer people on e-vote machines.
COMMENT #27 [Permalink]
said on 1/5/2008 @ 9:51 pm PT...
Also, I believe Ron Paul did NOT pursue e-vote fraud in an earlier straw poll this year...when urged to do so, he stopped his people.
COMMENT #28 [Permalink]
said on 1/5/2008 @ 9:53 pm PT...
Who said, "If voting really counted, it would be illegal"???
COMMENT #29 [Permalink]
JUDGE OF JUDGES
said on 1/6/2008 @ 12:23 am PT...
I'd be willing to bet it wouldn't take much of a code change . . .
to turn your old DRE into a wicked pissa Ouija Board . . . . .
COMMENT #30 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2008 @ 1:24 am PT...
COMMENT #31 [Permalink]
Grizzly Bear Dancer
said on 1/6/2008 @ 2:41 am PT...
Brad and American Patriots at B Blog can always be counted on for an intelligent presentation of election and voting issues as well as viable solutions. Part of the good history of this country left over mainly from positive strides taken in the 60's and 70's are the native American kids who were the products of that time period. They would rather stand up in our new society of fear like this country's constitutional forefathers and get the truth out than give these greedy lying 1%er multi-national corporatists and their U.S. government representives that have completely infiltrated our system a pass to continue on their path of death, destruction, and increased Executive branch powers.
I think the point made by Brad and Bev Harris that any and all Americans shoud be able to view the counting of paper ballots at a precinct is an excellent ideal. Moving forward all ages including public school student should be allowed to attend this event and it would establish a new president for American Democracy in the right direction. This would definitely be a step up from the votes counted in secrecy method on hackable hardware.
COMMENT #32 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2008 @ 2:57 am PT...
Good stuff all, not much to add except the article was weak in a few areas...
I wanted to show this OT piece to ya before it falls off the radar. When is the last time this happened ?
Before the Great Depression ?, Or during the Reagan years ?
Dividends in Financial Services Sector Likely to Be Casualties of Tightening Credit Markets
Even looks bad to me, a person who doesn't delve into this area much
COMMENT #33 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2008 @ 3:39 am PT...
COMMENT #34 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2008 @ 4:51 am PT...
STU #25 said, "The chance of the elite allowing the masses to oversee the election is a waste of time because the masses are divided and will be unable to come to a conclusion, plus many of the masses also work for the elite."
The problem with this kind of thinking is that it discourages action. What if our founding fathers had followed that logic? We'd still be subjects of King George (oops, I guess we still are!).
The point is this - you are what you think. You can do what you think you can do. The EI movement has made massive strides in getting EI issues in front of the public, albiet very slowly and with much resistance from the M$M.
We HAVE to keep showing the folly of secretly counting our votes. The Kenya story was a perfect example of how having precinct-based counts released FIRST and posted at the precincts can act as a check and balance on the power elite. BTW, has there been any follow up on the phony election in Kenya? Has the opposition been able to rally enough of the citizens to force a recount or a new election?
COMMENT #35 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2008 @ 6:17 am PT...
Bev #11 and JMAC #12
If the author really cared he would know that his own NYT during 1985 wrote articles about the dangers, and that NIST, which most of the time is not "the fringe. . . scared-senseless computer geeks" did a study 20 years ago.
And if the NYTM dude read Bradblog much, he would have noticed a post of mine too:
The electronic voting machine (EVM) watchdogs twenty years ago were saying what was said before the committee recently (1988 Article).
You can shock the hell out of the EVM audience with these quotes from a 1988 official report:
4.13 Summary Of Problem Types
4.13.1 Insufficient Pre-election Testing
4.13.2 Failure to Implement an Adequate Audit Trail
4.13.3 Failure to Provide for a Partial Manual Recount
4.13.4 Inadequate Ballots or Ballot-Reader Operation
4.13.5 Inadequate Security and Management Control
4.13.6 Inadequate Contingency Planning
4.13.7 Inadequate System Acceptance Procedures
Concern had been heightened by a series of articles published in the summer of 1985 in the New York Times. The articles cited statements by two computer experts reporting that a computer program widely used for vote-tallying was vulnerable to tampering. Several elections were identified in which losing candidates claimed that it would be possible to fraudulently alter the computer programs that were used in their contests.
(NIST Report 1988, bold added).
No one mentioned that twenty years is enough to have more than "suggested rules" which are admittedly inadequate ... which election war lords are ignoring anyway.
And who asked why one person certifies the machines no matter how many ITA companies claim to do the certification? Or who sets the standards of the lone ranger doing the testing (The Lone Tester)?
COMMENT #36 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2008 @ 6:25 am PT...
(post #35 continued)
I posted another one too:
Nothing was said in the press about the secretly programmed computer chips inside the "Shouptronic" Direct Recording Electronic (DRE) voting machines in Manchester, the state's largest city.
These 200-pound systems were so easily tampered with that the integrity of the results they gave — and George Bush was the beneficiary of their tallies — will forever be in doubt. Consider these points:
1. The "Shouptronic" was purchased directly from a company whose owner, Ransom Shoup, had been twice convicted of vote fraud in Philadelphia.
2. It bristled with telephone lines that made it possible for instructions from the outside to be telephoned into the machine without anyone's dear knowledge.
3. It completely lacked an "audit trail," an independent record that could be checked in case the machine "broke down" or its results were challenged.
4. Roy G. Saltman, of the federal Institute for Computer Sciences and Technology, called the Shouptronic "much more risky" than any other computerized tabulation system because "You are fundamentally required to accept the logical operation of the machine, there is no way to do an independent check."
A year later, in June of 1989, Robert J. Naegele, who had investigated all computerized voting systems for New York State, warned: "The DRE (which the Shouptronic was) is still at least a year and possibly two away from what I would consider a marketable product. The hardware problems are relatively minor, but the software problems are conceptual and really major".
A source close to Gov. Sununu insists that Sununu knew from his perspective as a politician, and his expertise as a computer engineer, that the Shouptronic was prime for tampering.
How could such an offense against the United States electoral process have been carried out under the gaze of professionals from the nation's TV networks, newspapers and wire services?
(ELECTRONIC HOODWINK, emphasis added).
I get back to Jen #3 where Jen hypothesizes that it isn't the story that stands out as great "news" in this case, it is the timing of it that is "news".
COMMENT #37 [Permalink]
Pablo de Albuquerque
said on 1/6/2008 @ 7:10 am PT...
No real mention of Nov 2004 in the article... When is the massive evidence compiled by Brad, Ohio's FreePress, Palast etc. going to get its' rightful play inthe MSM? The stolen 2004 election is still treated like an "internet conspiracy theory", where it is perhaps one of the more disturbing chapters in our democracy.
COMMENT #38 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2008 @ 7:29 am PT...
I just read the full NYT article, and am appalled. It wrote of Florida 2000, but failed to note that those hanging chads were intentionally engineered to fail to sell electronic machines and swing the election. The article failed to show that the actual count of ballots showed Gore the winner. It failed to indicate that Ney co-wrote HAVA. It failed throughout to show the partisanship and Republican intentions in this mess throughout. It failed to talk about Blackwell throwing the election, the criminal prosecutions, and the proven vote-switching in Ohio 2004. In short, it failed to indicate the Republican's culpability in this from the start. It totally focussed on unreliability and POTENTIAL insecurtiy. What a snow job!
The technical solutions are obvious, and have been outlined, once again, here in the comments. But technical solutions will not solve this problem. The problem is big corporate money in politics.
After Iowa, two of the best qualified Democrates, Biden and Dodd, dropped out, leaving Kucinich as the only qualified Democrat that is not bought and paid for. It is generally accepted that he can't win, because he doesn't have the money, because he is not bought and paid for. How can we fix this?
Ron Paul has been mentioned here. Are you aware that he will do his best to outlaw abortion? That he ignores Global Warming? He may not be bought and paid for, but he will not reign in the corporations. He is no solution.
COMMENT #39 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2008 @ 8:07 am PT...
COMMENT #40 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2008 @ 9:50 am PT...
Ron Paul never said he'd "do his best to outlaw abortion." Dr. Paul, as a Constitutionalist, DID say it was up to the individual States to decide, which is a far cry from "outlawing" abortion. This is simple, people. If you want to live in a Constitutional Republic, of laws, support Ron Paul. If you want to live in a Bananna Republic, of lawless men, support any other candidate. If the People reject Ron Paul, and his message, the People have spoken and get the leadership they deserve.
COMMENT #41 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2008 @ 10:17 am PT...
Thats the problem. There has been action for decades, but unfortunately it is canceled out by each side fighting each other. Action is worthless if it is canceled out. This is what the elite want, as long as each side is fighting each other the elite will win. Everybody is calling for voter reform, but they are considering the other side to be the culprit instead of the real problem the elite. The masses have to get their minds off of each other and look at the real puppet masters. Politics is just a game of the elite to keep the sheple busy. It is time for the sheeple to WAKE UP. FOCUS FOCUS
The chance of each side being right is ZERO while the chance of both being wrong can be 100%.
COMMENT #42 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2008 @ 11:06 am PT...
Let me see MAYBE a clever independent hacker can get Ron Paul or Dennis K into the mix by correcting the vote in Each primary? Hummmm how loose is the DRE access- Often the elite create climates and systems that spin out of their control.
COMMENT #43 [Permalink]
Grizzly Bear Dancer
said on 1/6/2008 @ 12:10 pm PT...
Slightly O.T. - Comments #38/#40: Admittingly unaware of Ron Paul's stance that the sum of man's pollution and the greenhouse effect's heat on current world climate and our world species is a bunch of lies by NON-PROFIT environmental groups and concerned people trying to protect our planet. This is unforgiving if true by someone who calls himself Dr.
How bout an opinion of a congress under the leadership of greedy oil baron/president of the senate dick cheney that has reversed over 250 environmental laws or lowered over 400 standards ALWAYS in favor of pollutors?
Does he support the dissenting opinions given gospel status in the corporate mass media of the " don't worry bout nothing climate has changed before stance" paid for by the same greedy oil/energy companies who want to confuse anyone who will listen and continue exploiting oil reserves?
Maybe he is a doctor but taking the right of choice away from a woman and giving that decision to a particular state government should be a red flag. Has he studied the history of this subject before it was legal? The fact remains that a government cannot stop a woman from ending an unwanted pregnancy. "Rich" parents or whoever with money will fly to Mexico or where ever to have the proceedure done in a clean safe medical environment. The poor and kids given no other choice will go back to the coat hanger witch doctor and the backstreet abortion.
Way to go American politicians. Good to see we are really making strides in 2008.
At least Mr. Kusinich wants to IMPEACH parsitic treasonous murderer dick cheney.
COMMENT #44 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2008 @ 12:20 pm PT...
Everybody is playing the wrong game. As long as you keep playing this game you will get the same results. A politician is a politician and you can watch the movie as many times as you want it is always going to be the same.
COMMENT #45 [Permalink]
said on 1/6/2008 @ 2:52 pm PT...
God, I love this site. Thanks Brad!
Ain't it amazing what you don't read in the mainstream media?
COMMENT #46 [Permalink]
said on 1/8/2008 @ 4:33 pm PT...
How to Rig an Election: Convicted Former GOP Operative Details 2002 New Hampshire Phone Jamming Scheme
We speak with former Republican operative Allen Raymond, who served time in federal prison for jamming phone lines of the New Hampshire Democratic Party in 2002 to block a Democratic get-out-the-vote campaign. Raymond has come out with a tell-all book called How to Rig an Election: Confessions of a Republican Operative. In addition to the phone-jamming scheme, Raymond details other Republican tactics such as the use of scripted, phony automated phone messages to try to play on white voters’ racial prejudices in a 2000 New Jersey congressional race.
ALLEN RAYMOND: Well, on Election Day in 2002 in New Hampshire, we were—it was one of many clients that we had, but in New Hampshire our client was the New Hampshire Republican State Committee. And we were conducting what later became known as the phone-jamming operation, which was an effort to jam telephone lines at a volunteer phone bank in Manchester, New Hampshire, with the intent to disrupt lines of communication—in other words, to disrupt Democrats’ effort to get out the vote on Election Day there.
COMMENT #47 [Permalink]
said on 1/8/2008 @ 4:36 pm PT...
"People like me are hired to engineer victory."
COMMENT #48 [Permalink]
said on 1/8/2008 @ 4:38 pm PT...
Whaddya tink o' dat? People like him are hired by the Republican Party to "engineer victory"! How about that?
COMMENT #49 [Permalink]
said on 1/8/2008 @ 4:40 pm PT...
Engineer Victory = stick a daggar in democracy & America & voters