READER COMMENTS ON
"VIDEO MASHUP: Is NBC's Decision To Exclude Rep. Kucinich From An Upcoming Debate Because Of His Anti-War Message?"
(40 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
said on 1/13/2008 @ 12:22 pm PT...
We need to get mad about this!! Everytime big media gets away with this stuff it erodes our position; makes us all look weaker… and invites even more of the same. Even if you do not support Dennis Kucinich, we would urge you to contact MSNBC and demand that he be included in the debate. Dennis Kucinich has ALWAYS been there for our principles… We need to show him our support NOW! Please contact MSNBC and demand that they uphold their responsibility to the nation. Tell them that Microsoft and G.E. do not get to decide who can run in elections… WE DO!! Please contact them today at email@example.com ; or call at 212-664-4444 (…ask for Comment Line).
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
said on 1/13/2008 @ 12:28 pm PT...
Alan, I'm assuming that your headline question is a rhetorical one. OF COURSE NBC chose to exclude Kucinich from the Las Vegas debates due to his anti-war message! There are too many influential people making too much money off of this protracted war! It's ABOUT the money! It's NOT about WMDs, 9/11, bringing democracy to the Middle East, getting rid of a vicious despot, or any of the other "reasons" we've been given over the past several years. It's the money!!!
And because our media conglomerates that control our news also are benefiting enormously from this war, we will never extricate ourselves from it until enough of us get it through our thick skulls that this is no conspiracy theory, that our democracy is seriously threatened by the privatization by corporations, through the legal system of legislative and now even executive bribery that we call lobbying, of everything that previously held our democracy together.
War, elections, public education, national parks, communications, the list goes on and on. And when they finally make the internet another privatized and corporate-controlled tool, we will no longer even be able to share and discuss freely information and ideas like we can right now in this blog.
Sorry for the rant. But wake up, America!
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
said on 1/13/2008 @ 12:50 pm PT...
Thanks Brad- I think you are absolutely correct. They uninvited him the morning after he announced his call for a recount.
Have you considered running for Congress?
Check this out...
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
said on 1/13/2008 @ 12:58 pm PT...
If Obama Barack and Hillary Clinton really believe in democracy, they should refuse to appear on the NBC sponsored debate until they let Dennis Kucinich participate. How does one contact Clinton and Barack to insist that they make it conditional to let Dennis Kucinich participate, or they won't show up either?
Anyway here are their campaign webistes:
Write something like:
Dear Hillary Clinton/Obama Barack
If you do not feel that the corporate media should have the right to hijack political debates, you should refuse to appear at the NBC-sponored debates until they allow Dennis Kucinich to appear a the debate.
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
said on 1/13/2008 @ 1:11 pm PT...
Sorry Brad and Nadia, but I hold that the ROOT PROBLEM is the money. I agree with you that the final straw that broke the camel's back on this one is the NH recount issue, but it all boils down in the end to the money being made hands-over-fist in our protracted, never-ending, perpetual GWOT.
They don't want Kucinich to go off about election fraud during a highly visible, national venue. They've so far been successful at framing this issue as an unfounded conspiracy theory coming out of those that "hate Bush."
But WHY don't they want him going off about election fraud? Because of all the money they're making off of the GWOT.
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
said on 1/13/2008 @ 1:14 pm PT...
The media loves to think in terms of "horse races" which is why they are happy about the NH results.
If Obama had won,then no horse race,no interest,no money to be made.
The Kucinich recount throws that scenario back into play.
And (gasp) the media might actually have to mention Edwards who their corporate owners hate with a passion.
On another note,some EI posters on the DKos site are taking a lot of abuse from the voting-machines-can't-be-rigged crowd that have official approval on that board. They should be commended for hanging tough in the face of being tarred as morons and lunatics.
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
said on 1/13/2008 @ 1:30 pm PT...
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
said on 1/13/2008 @ 1:32 pm PT...
Steve B #6, I rarely go to Kos because it's just so huge and full of a level of discussion that's totally unproductive, even destructive. Where on that site are the discussions about EI that you refer to?
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
said on 1/13/2008 @ 2:09 pm PT...
Just look for Diaries with "Recount" and "NH" in the titles.
Also, you can check out posts of "DemfromCT" or "DHinMI". Either one or both of these have been designated as a "Contributor" which gives them some sort of special privileges.
These threads will be easy to find.
There is probably one or more featured on the front page right now.
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
JEANNIE DEAN in FL-13
said on 1/13/2008 @ 3:07 pm PT...
Also, please contact NBC News political director CHUCK TODD @ Chuck.Todd@nbcuni.com
I wrote him today, and just heard back-(from him?)
Subject: OUSTING DENNIS KUCINICH FROM JAN.15 DEBATE??...SHAME ON YOU, CHUCK!
I am nauseated by your decision to remove DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE DENNIS KUCINICH from the upcoming Jan. 15 debates AFTER he met the criteria for inclusion just a week before. WHAT CHANGED?! I would like a DETAILED explanation of what the "new criteria" is, who implemented it and why...
I assume you will tell me that it's about "electability" all that other blah blah blah you like to do when you know VERY WELL, Mr. Todd, that NBC's airwaves belong to the PUBLIC, not your GLOBAL parent company G.E...maybe it slipped your mind. I can see why it would, what with KEVIN MARTIN's latest hooey at the FCC--who could ever recall that THESE ARE MY AIRWAVES, OUR AIRWAVES, AND WE THE PEOPLE WANT A FULL, ROBUST, DIVERSE DEBATE with ALL points of view included and EXPECT that from my SUPPOSED RELIABLE, IMPARTIAL NEWSOURCE.
What happened to you, Mr. Todd? You have NOT distinguished yourself AT ALL from the lying, propoganda-driven FOX NEWS NETWORK, in fact--I am more apauled by YOU, who should be fighting for third and fourth tier candidates RIGHTS to participate fully at the national level on behalf of MILLIONS OF AMERICANS JUST LIKE ME. If you can not, or will not do that, then I swear BY GOD that I, and many others, will NEVER watch any of your NEWS or ENTERTAINMENT programs...EVER.
I've got other sources of information, and if I
want to be entertained by BREAD and CIRCUSES--I'll go to Coney Island. (NOT to Disney, I might add.)
Whatever you're rationale may be, assuming it even IS your decision, I am TRYING HARD not to assume your "new criteria" for the NEVADA Debates is that the candidate in question NOT FILE FOR A RECOUNT IN N.H. after suspicious counting from DIEBOLD's
OP SCAN MACHINES gave Hillary an impossible 7% bump, even though she trailed OBAMA by as many as 13 points just the day before?...
Please reconsider this heinous, un-American decision. Nothing less is at stake. Get it together, and FAST.
VOTER/ AMERICAN CITIZEN?
I understand your frustration with our decision. It wasn't made lightly and done, we believe, in the best interests of the voters.
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
said on 1/13/2008 @ 3:22 pm PT...
Get the word out to boycott general electric and MSNBC. Money is what moves them. Don't give them any if you can avoid it.
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
said on 1/13/2008 @ 3:25 pm PT...
Here's my letter to Todd:
"Your comment that your decision to censor Rep. Kucinich from the Las Vegas debates was "in the best interests of the voters" strikes me as utterly outrageous. Who the heck do you think you are?! I will do without G.E. products, and without MSNBC (even including Keith Olbermann), before I will do without the free and open exchange of information and ideas, especially during a pivotal election season. You have no right to exclude Kucinich's important message from the national election debate scene. The citizens, not you, are who decides who our President will be. Reconsider your un-American decision to create a roadblock against free speech, through your attempt to manipulate the 2008 Presidential elections by interfering in the people's right to listen to and consider every candidate ourselves! Live free or die!"
But think about this:
Could it be that G.E.'s financial connections to the bin Laden family in Saudi Arabia, and its financial connections in Iran, in the war profiteering industry, are a greater motivator re NBC's decision, which was likely really G.E.'s decision, to censor Rep. Kucinich from the Las Vegas debates? Some of you are saying that the reason Kucinich has been censored by NBC is because of his demand for a NH vote recount. G.E. does not want Kucinich as president, and does not want his demand for a vote recount to be approved, because G.E.'s international and domestic corporate profits will be better served by a president who is not dedicated to bringing the troops home, and a vote recount would increase the possibility that a Democratic candidate other than Clinton or Obama would get on the general election ticket.
If this is true, then a boycott of G.E.'s products will be moot. G.E would rather give up its U.S. customer base, than the more lucrative business dealings it has in the Middle East, and that are dependent on our continued involvement in war.
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
said on 1/13/2008 @ 4:26 pm PT...
"I understand your frustration with our decision. It wasn't made lightly and done, we believe, in the best interests of the voters."
#1, these goes back to those appointed to the FCC that keep forgetting that the airwaves BELONG to the people AND it is NOT up to those who lease the airwaves to decide what is in the best interests of the property owner
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
JEANNIE DEAN in FL-13
said on 1/13/2008 @ 4:30 pm PT...
OH, LINDA! That was fantastic! GREAT left hook, you got, Sister! Thanks so much for posting that...
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
said on 1/13/2008 @ 4:33 pm PT...
Dear Mr. Todd; I have read your response to another writer concerning this subject and it appears you need to be reminded that the airwaves BELONG to the people AND it is NOT up to those who lease the airwaves to decide what is in the best interests of the property owner.
I will be making a complaint to the FCC of your company's action in violation of the terms upon which your company has been granted the lease of the airwaves.
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
Jeannie Dean in FL-13
said on 1/13/2008 @ 4:53 pm PT...
WhhoOOOhoOO! YES, BRUCE! What a great idea/ I shall follow suit, and urge my friends to do the same! You and Linda have greatly assuaged my rage~
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
said on 1/13/2008 @ 4:54 pm PT...
Bruce #15, you are aware that the FCC chairman (appointed by Bush) just allowed further media consolidation, a level of consolidation that allows TV/radio stations to join forces with newspapers in their readership/listership/viewership areas, a level of consolidation for which there was a huge grassroots uprising, in protest against, all across the nation that was completely ignored and dismissed by the FCC chairman.
I think you should send your letter, but just know that Chairman Martin, he don't care! Chairman Martin DO care about the big fat media paycheck he's going to get from one of the mega-corporations that benefited from his sleazy anti-best-interests-of-the-people political move.
One McWorld, One McNews.
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
said on 1/13/2008 @ 5:36 pm PT...
You guys rock! I've been driving all day and it's so excellent to come back and see everybody's on it!
Anyone else wanting to help should watch this video.
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
said on 1/13/2008 @ 6:49 pm PT...
Is anybody having problems with this "capcha" gizzy below the comment box? I'm starting to get emails about difficulties.
It could be an android trying to break in, but she sounds nice and I'm wondering how many people can't say anything due to "capcha" malfunction...?
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
said on 1/13/2008 @ 7:42 pm PT...
Linda #17, yes, I'm very aware of the herniated rectum named Martin on the FCC but I also am not willing to quit the fight, especially in view of the FCC decision to allow the sale of Clear Channel assests to a PRIVATE equity firm. If people haven't read this:
I urge them to; a quote from the article:
"... the thinking of the average citizen and his opinion about public affairs is in very great measure shaped by a wealth of unrelated information and by the most diverse ideas that the selective process of private economic enterprise presents to him for consideration — information the truth of which he cannot verify; ideas formulated by persons unknown to him, and too often inspired by economic, political, religious, or other interests that are never avowed."
In the meanwhile, the NBC guy sent me the same response he gave Jeannie Dean Fl-13.
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
said on 1/13/2008 @ 7:43 pm PT...
Yes, had a problem yesterday and just now had to go thru 3 iterations of 'submit' until it worked properly.
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
said on 1/13/2008 @ 7:45 pm PT...
Also just noted that the 'capcha' directions say the letter 'O' is not used but it is showing up in the 'key code' and yes, when a zero is put up, it has the dot in the middle of it; so if 'O' isn't allowed, why is 'capcha' generating it?
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
said on 1/13/2008 @ 8:10 pm PT...
...maybe the same reason FOX excluded Dr. Paul...not enough room, or Dennis is ruining Hillary's lighting and makeup.
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
Jeannie Dean in FL-13
said on 1/13/2008 @ 8:25 pm PT...
99-not sure if this is related to the capcha, but four or five times yesterday while I was in the middle of posting, I was suddenly thwarted/ kicked off of the browser...
surprised me/ never happened before, so I just kept trying until it cleared.
COMMENT #25 [Permalink]
said on 1/13/2008 @ 8:49 pm PT...
I think it's the Mensa capcha and they throw you with sometimes dots and sometimes not-dots....
And I've been noticing the masthead ad is yimmering at us betimes lately too, and I won't stand for it!!!!!! Hell-ooo, hell-ooo, yoo-hoo! Click on me so I'll stop annoying the crap out of yoohoo....
ALSO sometimes the changing of the banner ads kicks me off an audio or something equally irksome... so... well... I'm going to have to speak to the Sheriff about this stuff!
I mean, we love Brad making some money for his efforts, but he has to tell them to play nice!
Thank you for your input!
COMMENT #26 [Permalink]
said on 1/13/2008 @ 11:41 pm PT...
I have an idea for the Kucinich campaign. It requires money so hope he still has some.
Ill bet you can get 10 million DVD's printed pronto in China or other for say $5 million dollars. Bypass the MSM. Send out 10 million DVD's to households in America. Stamp on the front cover to copy and distribute the DVD for free.
Hey you could link to brad blog etc.
COMMENT #27 [Permalink]
said on 1/14/2008 @ 1:17 am PT...
A cheap version of this would be to get 10000 of his supporters to download and copy and distribute 100 more or less dvds each.
Supporters could also sponsor the cost for production and distribution of 50- 100 DVD's.
If Bradblog makes a movie (with refernce material included) I will make 100 copies at my own cost and give them out free. We could all do this to get past the MSM.
COMMENT #28 [Permalink]
said on 1/14/2008 @ 8:40 am PT...
Or are they excluding him because he can handle matters of substance like fair elections and immoral invasions, occupations, and destructions of small nations our Amurkan fascist power mongers want to feast on?
Probably all of the above, because Amurkan fascists are afraid of the constitution and have replaced it with fuhreristic notions which they falsely claim are futuristic.
To hell with these Big Brother fascist presstitutes. It is incestuous.
COMMENT #29 [Permalink]
said on 1/14/2008 @ 9:43 am PT...
Make sure that the Chinese know that the DVDs are to be Region 1 or Region 0 otherwise they will not play here in the States and our money will have been wasted not that it is worth much now anyway.
COMMENT #30 [Permalink]
said on 1/14/2008 @ 12:38 pm PT...
Todd's reply to my complaint:
boring is the best case anyone has made... that said; I understand your frustration with our decision. It wasn't made lightly and done, we believe, in the best interests of the voters.
Here is my letter: NBC is a Fox wanna-be...
Please reconsider your decision to oust Kucinich from the debates. Without him it will be BORING! and I will not watch. I used to like your channel, but now you are trying to outfox Fox who did the same thing to Paul. At least they had the smarts to re invite Paul after viewers complained about it in the next debate.
MSNBC doesn't even care about their viewers enough to have a real debate.
And Chis Matthews is advertising it as "gutsy"? UGH What a farce! You don't even have the guts to have the most gutsy of all candidates. Kucinich dares to speak against the stupid war, he dares to question the NH results based on exit poll discrepancies, that is a man with guts, not you and your now stupid channel.
What is wrong with you people? Who is pulling your strings? Maybe you should investigate yourself to find out.
The whole campaign is getting faker by the minute, starting with NH results.Ousting Kucinich makes you look stupid. The campaign is getting boring without all voices heard.
I wonder how much mail you get for and against excluding Kucinich? I bet you won't even mention his name. You are doing a disservice to viewers and voters to exclude Kucinich. Are you afraid of the NH recount? WHY? Don't you want to report true results? Or do you just want to continue the bad opera? Is it because he opposes the war that your GE parent is so fond of? Grow up already!
No longer a fan of MSNBC!
I used to be regular voter, but now I can't trust the machines and i may not vote at all, along with 2.5 million other Americans according to Zogby polls... why should i try anyway, when you decide who can be in the debates? NBC is the new Fox wanna-be, by excluding candidates in debates. What a shame! Shame on you!
COMMENT #31 [Permalink]
said on 1/14/2008 @ 7:22 pm PT...
Listen, folks, this is the internet era. Here's what should be done by Americans interested in the integrity of their democracy, whether or not they agree with Dennis Kucinich:
After the debate on NBC takes place, re-edit the video of the debate to include Kucinich giving his answers to the debate questions and disseminate it far and wide. Chances are more voters would see that than on NBC, anyway. Brad Friedman, you're connected...
COMMENT #32 [Permalink]
said on 1/14/2008 @ 10:56 pm PT...
Maybe Dennis will be on the debate.....
January 14, 2008, 10:45 pm
Kucinich Should Be Allowed to Debate, Judge Rules
By Brian Stelter
A Nevada judge has ordered MSNBC to include Representative Dennis Kucinich, a Democratic presidential candidate, in Tuesday night’s debate in Nevada, the Associated Press reports.
...Charles Thompson, a senior district court judge for Clark County, Nevada, said he would issue an injunction stopping the debate if Mr. Kucinich is excluded.
In a statement, MSNBC responded: “We disagree with the judge’s decision and are filing an appeal.”
COMMENT #33 [Permalink]
said on 1/15/2008 @ 12:16 am PT...
I sure hope so, but NBC is fighting it tooth and nail. I suspect that, stacked as the US courts are with right wing extremists, the fascists will prevail. Even if Kucinich does get on, they'll probably again cut him out of the questions. If so, a debate video reedited to allow him to expand on questions he is not given proper opportunity to answer would still be good to spread on the internet. Fight them good on the web before AT&T and NBC/war profiteer GE they take over the internet and filter out "copyrighted" material (that is, dissenting voices), as they're planning to do when the next obliging corporate sycophant becomes president.
COMMENT #34 [Permalink]
said on 1/15/2008 @ 1:18 pm PT...
NBC lawyer Campbell argued Monday that Federal Communications Commission broadcast rules do not apply to cable TV networks, and said Tuesday that federal courts instead of state courts have jurisdiction.
So cable tv networks are exempt from FCC broadcast rules? Hmmmmmm.
COMMENT #35 [Permalink]
said on 1/15/2008 @ 10:18 pm PT...
The internet is the only hope of saving the day but its not enough. There is no real room for anyone but Hillary and Obama because they have most presence in the MSM. I guess its early days and it might take the net a bit longer to get throught to people. Look at Kunicich not doing well thanks to the MSM. The internet hasn't righted that situation yet but we will see I guess.
COMMENT #36 [Permalink]
said on 1/16/2008 @ 7:38 am PT...
Got news for all of you, the only thing that is ever going to stop this Corporate Media stranglehold on all of us is a good old fashioned REVOLUTION complete with torches ropes and pitchforks in a sea of very angry citizens surrounding every Media outlet in the country.
Peaceful demonstrations of a few 1000 people are utterly worthless today, short term boycotts of only a few million people mean nothing whatsoever to these multinational extremely diversified global corporations that make Billions off of War Profiteering.
You can send in Emails till your fingers fall off, protest till your shoes wear out and shout till you are horse and it will make ZERO difference because Millions of us have been doing this for 7-8 years now to no avail at all.
Surround Faux Noise with a few million very angry patriots and burn them to the ground, destroy their vehicles, satellite dishes, all communications and make sure they are OFF THE AIR permanently. Then tell the rest of the MSM they have 24 hours to start telling the truth about the Election Fraud, the Lies told by this administration about Iraq & Iran and the FACT that 9/11 was clearly an inside job, if not then YOU are next because we are collectively revoking your broadcasting license to use PUBLIC AIRWAVES for Propaganda for war profiteering & Treason.
Yeah yeah I know, "peaceful demonstrations only" "No Violence" blah blah blah.
This is exactly what they are betting on, the fact that the vast majority of Americans have lost all will to fight for freedom and actually believe that things will work themselves out if we just all sit back and do nothing or maybe send a few million Emails.
As much as I would love for that to be so it just isn't. Peaceful solutions to things this far reaching with literally Trillions upon trillions of $$$ on the line is nothing but wishful thinking, we all may as well get together and "pray" we would get the same outcome.
I always hear from the Peace only crowd the mantra of "but MLK & Gandhi changed things through peace & love and non-violence" sorry but that is BS. They each did a great job of bringing the problems to light and getting millions on board to what should be done BUT they actually changed nothing but the attitudes of millions of followers. What did effect change was when both of them were assassinated and then millions of angry citizens violently reacted in the streets.
Sadly that is just human nature, very seldom if ever in all of human history have things such as what we face today been changed through peaceful means, so if it makes you feel better to send an Email or march in a protest have at it but don't expect anything to actually change until it gets so bad that millions are forced to react violently to protect their lives.
If these Neofascist that stole the last 2 S-elections get their way & either Ghouliani or McCain get anointed to the throne then that time might be very soon.
If some Democrat manages to win because of the tremendous efforts of people like Brad & Bev Harris staving off the blatant Election stealing efforts just enough for them to win by a narrow margin even though they really won by a landslide then don't expect anything to really change. We will still be occupying a foreign country murdering millions based on the bald faced lies of the Bush administration, we will still be pushing the farce called the "war on terra", the Government will still be using lies, fear mongering and the MSM will still be spreading propaganda. The democrats might be able to bring the country back from eminent total collapse and maybe stop some of the unconstitutional & clearly illegal actions (Patriot Act, MCA etc) from further implementation, with any luck maybe stop the torture but for the most part things will stay about status quo because the MSM & the top 2% will still control most of what is being done.
REAL change will only be possible when at least 150+ Million Americans WTFU, get angry, stop the corporate media stranglehold, install a real non-bias media that does it's job, abolishes the way outdated & destructive electoral college, bans ALL lobbying of any kind with zero tolerance & harsh penalties, installs a system of paper ballots ONLY and all hand counted and all candidates that qualify are given federal funds of a set amount for each and every candidate.
All broadcast media required by law to give FREE airtime on PUBLIC AIRWAVES to each and every candidate and every candidate is to attend ALL debates in each and every state with questions asked by the citizens that attend the debate via a lottery held live so their is no way possible to FIX the questions and the citizen asking the question gets a rebuttal to the answer given so he can ask it again when the candidates dance around it or just blatantly lie.
Until the duopoly of the Rethug/Democrat parties is dismantled and we can get 3rd & 4th party candidates taking at least 1/3 of the seats of Congress then nothing in this country is going to "change". The change mantra being used by Obama & to some extent now by Hilliary is complete BS and a total impossibility until the whole system & the corrupt corporate media are changed to reflect the will of the bottom 98%.
COMMENT #37 [Permalink]
said on 1/16/2008 @ 2:09 pm PT...
The CIA infiltrates organizations with extremists promoting non-viable and violent solutions. Why do you think they do that? It wouldn't work, I'm afraid. In fact, with the Patriot Act, the US system right now is in a de facto state of martial law, complete with "desaparecidos" (mysteriously disappeared people). Advocating anything like that could lead to stealth arrests and disappearances (just giving the wrong person a ride in your car could lead to your disappearance). I witnessed this in Argentina, when it was under martial law. Mexicans have bravely taken to the streets and get gunned down for their efforts. Media doesn't report it. Same thing would happen in the states (and, in fact, is happening). I think the most viable solution is stealth infiltration into organizations, corporate shareholder meetings. Members of the Scientology cult managed to do this , you know. I'm sure more sane-minded people could as well.
COMMENT #38 [Permalink]
said on 1/16/2008 @ 5:34 pm PT...
So you are saying that several million say 30,40+ million damn mad Americans armed and violent would merely lead to nothing whatsoever except a few "stealth arrest & disappearances"?
The reason the CIA infiltrates organizations with agents provocateurs in order to try and start small time violent solutions that they can easily control is just that, a fake uprising made to look like a few people are acting violently is of course easily handled because its FAKE and the infiltrated organization is just a handful of people not 25+% of the entire population.
Do you honestly think 10s of millions of damn mad and armed people would be easily handled?
The fact that we are currently living in a de facto dictatorship run by treasonous war criminals and not in a Free Democratic republic anymore should be more than enough incentive to rise up and overthrow these fascist.
What you are saying only happens when just a tiny fraction of the populous tries to take action, those are easily dispatched and used as scapegoats & made examples of in the propagandist media to strike fear in everyone else.
People just need to wake up in massive numbers and the gig is up, and peaceful protest are not what needs to happen anymore.
If we peacefully protested the British army during our Independence what do you suppose would have been the outcome?
If the German people peacefully protested Hitler the outcome would have been what?
Stealth infiltration into whatever organizations which BTW would take decades would serve exactly what purpose?
We don't have decades, we may only have a few months.
Personally I think we are totally screwed because I just don't think the vast majority of Americans will ever do a damn thing until they are being loaded into the trains towards the camps or digging through the garbage fighting for a bone with a stray cur.
COMMENT #39 [Permalink]
said on 1/16/2008 @ 6:28 pm PT...
You make legitimate points. There have been times in history there was no choice but to engage in a violent uprising. I personally don't think that that is the solution for the United States. It is true that the United States democracy is under a monstrous stranglehold by very dangerous forces --- the Military/Industrial complex, including the Overwhelmingly Fascist Media. But, these very forces are also highly unwieldy and supremely stupid. They're already defeating themselves. The US is being driven into unfathomable debt and is at the mercy of China of all places. The world is dumping the US dollar. Europe laughs at America like some might at the village idiot, and taking their business elsewhere. Meanwhile, lithe guerrilla forces, some in the form of open source computer programmers, others through alternative economic means, internet bloggers, "web tv," and so on, by virtue of their superior mental agility will inevitably emerge victorious from the clumsy Goliath that is punching itself to death. It is guerrilla war, but its forms are not violent. Again, that's just my personal take on it. You may be right, I really don't know. Wouldn't be the first time in history that people were driven to violent revolution. But, keep in mind that violent mobs can become even more frightening and dangerous than that which they are fighting.
COMMENT #40 [Permalink]
said on 1/16/2008 @ 7:27 pm PT...
I sincerely hope you are correct but frankly I just don't see any other possibility than a violent uprising by 10s of millions with a total over throw of the MSM to have any chance of real change and to bring this country back from its current fascist police state.
We don't have to over throw the Government just the Mainstream Media, the rest would fall into place once the truth is told far & wide and repeatedly. Hell the USA is about the only place on the planet where the Media is flat out lying about what is happening here.