READER COMMENTS ON
"'Inconsistencies' Reported in Results from Snohomish County, WA's GOP Caucus"
(38 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
said on 2/11/2008 @ 7:05 pm PT...
I have been watching Senator Dodd's expose on the Senate floor in the FISA debate.
He points out the the telecoms who will be granted retroactive immunity if the FISA bill passes, were approached BEFORE 911 to do this.
The rhetorical republican lies have been, heretofore, that 911 is what made the use of the telecom data necessary.
Esser is a microcosm for all things BIG BROTHER, because BIG BROTHER is a republican.
The Esser phenomenon was planned. Stop Esser and his fellow Amurkans, who are choking America to death even as we speak.
Thank you Senator Dodd, I will never forget you or your speech still going as I blog.
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
said on 2/11/2008 @ 7:19 pm PT...
Very interesting. One can only wonder what is going on in all 50 states. Hope you can get the word out because the MSM is not going to do it for you. God bless.
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
said on 2/11/2008 @ 8:03 pm PT...
Thanks for the informative objective reporting. I agree the current interest in accurate voting is most important. This country, I hope, is not becoming a controlled entity. MSM telling us who is the the only choice? Please consider + read up on Dr. Paul's solutions. Thanks.
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
said on 2/11/2008 @ 8:12 pm PT...
Don't feel bad, Louisiana's votes got hijacked as well. Check out what you can find (via independent news and LSU) on how we voted Ron Paul & got McInsane anyway. BTW...the Katrina news you saw was mostly lies.
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
said on 2/11/2008 @ 9:36 pm PT...
Snohomish is getting better and better known for election irregularities. Look at my co-authored scientific study, (which still stands even after litigation it was never refuted) at www.votersunite.org/info...onFraudinvestigation.pdf (especially see p. 19 about the 19 DREs pulled out of service and see also pages 75-79 discussing this in Freeman and Bleifuss's "Was the 2004 Presidential Election Stolen?" which discusses the study in detail as some of the best evidence of electronic irregularity/fraud out there. (this is just the tip of the iceberg, much more if you read the report).
THe study focuses on the 2004 gubernatorial election where a hand recount led to a side by side comparison of hand counted paper ballots vs. DREs and all the differences that emerged there on a precinct by precinct basis...
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
said on 2/11/2008 @ 10:12 pm PT...
I was absolutely DISGUSTED and ANGERED that Governor Gregoire didn't immediately order a complete and total investigation of Snohomish County's election on her first day in office after her heavily politicized "close election" that she actually won by thousands of votes.
Had she done this, she might have uncovered the depth and depravity of the Rethuglican Election Theft Mashine and totally altered the political landscape, and perhaps even laid the groundwork (back in 2005) for election reforms that might have actually WORKED. She could have exposed the Rethuglicans for what they are --- despicable and scurrilous thieves and enemies of Democracy. An investigation in Washington might have killed DREs across the country before 2006, and the Democrats might have won 2 more Senate seats and 20 more House seats.
But no, the brave prosecutor who went after the cigarette companies didn't have the personal fortitude to go out on THAT limb, but preferred to just put her nearly stolen election to rest, but leave the Rethuglicans out there with their meme that SHE stole the election (damn, was she really THAT stupid?).
I hope she loses her next election and that scumbag who she beat by 15,000 votes beats her --- it serves her right. She sold out Democracy and perhaps the entire future of the United States for her personal career.
With Democrats like Gregoire, who needs Rethuglican enemies?
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
said on 2/12/2008 @ 2:47 am PT...
I did not hear the "Huck" complain when Ron Paul was cheated.
The "Huck" did not become so patriotic until it happened to him.
The "Huck" is a two face lier,and his supporter even think that getting rid of the "Income Tax" was "Hucks" idea....How ignorant is that?
The "Huck",and his supporters are very scary..indeed.
John McCain is responsible for the deaths of America pilots,and! that`s why he had the POW papers hidden forever.
Ask John McCain to let the public review those papers and see what happens.John McCain will turn into the person he is and tell one lie after the other..someone ask John McCain about the papers,his radio messages,the Russian doctor,the picture of him hugging the communist General w/a smile on his,John`S face.The very same General that Killed and tortured American POW`S.
John McCain will get to KILL MORE AMERICANS,LOT`S OF AMERICANS will die at his hands during the 100+ years of war he say`s in ahead.
I think Americas have reached,at lease I hope they have reached,the Outer Limits of their stupidity....Maybe not?
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
said on 2/12/2008 @ 3:18 am PT...
I challenge John McCain,and Mike Huckabee,to debate Ron Paul,one on one.That way we can find out,for sure,who is the real "Republican".
By the way! Ron Paul was ask by Ronald Reagan,to campaign for him,Ronald Reagan,and Ronald Won.
Did any other of these candidates campaign for Reagan,NO!They were not even considered,much less asked.
The Truth Will Set You Free,true,but first one must find it,the truth.
Come on John,Mike,debate Ron Paul...neither of you have the honesty to debate Ron Paul,neither of you NAZI`S have the nerve to debate Ron Paul.
Let`s have the debate in an open area where any AMERICAN is allowed to ask questions.Any American that happens to be in that area,any of us,any questions we want to ask.
That will never happen,those two cowards,John and Mike,would find some lame excuse not to be there.
I would ask Ron to simply make the challenge,that`s all he would have to do,just make the challenge and then just stand where the debate is to be held,and wait...and wait....and wait,for the others to show up.
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
said on 2/12/2008 @ 5:20 am PT...
It is not only the election characteristics that have changed from paper ballots and hand counts to black box voting.
Power changes and corrupts those who get it and try to increase it.
John McCain, according to McCain supporters and watchers has changed:
I hate to be the one to break up a love affair, especially with Valentine's Day just around the corner, but I can no longer stand idly by and watch the media and independent voters continue to throw themselves at the feet of John McCain.
The McCain they fell in love with in 2000 --- the straight-shooting maverick --- is no more. He's been replaced by a born-again Bushite willing to say or do anything to win the affection of his newfound object of desire, the radical right.
(Huffpo). I wouldn't know. All I know is that McPain is preznit blush on steroids. Ron Paul is ahead of his party and therefore ahead of his time. Huck is much safer than McPain.
I am voting AGAINST the kingdom of R (Republicans) in every category.
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
Grizzly Bear Dancer
said on 2/12/2008 @ 6:07 am PT...
A word about this John McCain.
Acehole John McCain who said it would be fine with him if the US military remained in Iraq for the next 100 years http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFknKVjuyNk now claims he's gonna save America money for example by cutting the 3 million dollars (inaccurate figure) used to study Grizzlies in Montana. http://www.sciam.com/art...=mccains-beef-with-bears Nevermind that Al quada (the so called enemy of the US) was funneled money and arms to fight Russia during their invasion of Afganistan when they started out in the late 80's by the CIA. Yes there is a strong tie most Americans know little about. Iraq, the country that had as much to do with 9/11 as FEDERAL WORLD TRADE TOWER BUILDING #7 and it's 6 second collapse into dust without the help of anyarabs or airplanes.
Look up Sibel Edmond's former FBI interpreter gagged by the bush administration if you want to find out how 25 treasonous gov officials were involved with selling nuclear weapons secrets to Pakistan, in turn N. Korea, and who the hell knows else giving them the bomb.
1000's and 1000's of innocent people have been killed in a war that has cost billions and billions of dollars. This is not a careless waste to John McCain but 3 million dollars used to study the FEDERALLY endangered and misunderstood Grizzly is excessive spending.
This is the top republithug party candidate leader in line to replace bush in the next
rigged election. He's going after isolated populations of brown bears suffering from 57 major survival issues surrounded by land developers.
If he wins in November, the corp mass media will proclaim he won the election because racist male chauvinist America just wasn't ready for a
black arab or a woman in the W.H. A plausible set up. Especially when electronic voting companies who count and tabulate US elections
(electronically) in complete secrecy without any oversite WILL NOT be able to provide hard evidence without paper ballot trails that he actually lost.
For the record, if i could ever get this man in a ring i would tear his fucking head off. Of course Gore had more votes on paper in 2000
in Florida and it never mattered.
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
said on 2/12/2008 @ 6:33 am PT...
The vote on the FISA amendment that strips telco immunity...
... (and Bush administration immunity)...
... (and unlimited future Bush administration immunity)...
... from the new FISA bill is today, Tuesday 2-12-2008.
41 Senators are needed to pass it. Senators need to be present to cast an "aye" vote for the amendment.
And both Clinton and Obama are just "too busy" campaigning to stop by and vote on this issue.
(Actually they are both terrified of being caught with their fingerprints anywhere near this bill one way or the other.)
And forget any "WE NEED TO ELECT MORE AND BETTER DEMOCRATS!" bullshit... once this capitulation is complete this power will never be given up by "our" government.
So afterwards any electronic communication will officially be suspect as to confidentiality.
And a hint... encryption ain't so sure either.
Leaving aside the constant search for flaws in current encryption methods there's always brute force. The usual glad-handing in that regard is always vague assurances that it would take a "supercomputer" "centuries" to crack common encryption methods...
... and like the old concept of individual agents listening to individual phone calls this false image gives meaningless comfort to the victims and ignores the massive server farms already caching all data for later automated data mining.
Ed Felten of Princeton did the math some months ago showing that modern techniques could indeed intercept and store all current electronic communications for a modest expense that was easily covered within the black areas of current intelligence budgets.
To track the "untrackable" takes a few billion dollars... and they can crack the "uncrackable" for a few billion more.
128 bit for sure, and I wouldn't trust AES much further.
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
Grizzly Bear Dancer
said on 2/12/2008 @ 6:56 am PT...
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
said on 2/12/2008 @ 6:57 am PT...
Six days ago Obama voted to sunset FISA in 4 years instead of 6 years (if it gets passed). Forty Eight (48) other democrats in the Senate did the same.
Zero (0) republicans voted to sunset it in 4 years instead of 6 years.
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
said on 2/12/2008 @ 7:06 am PT...
On Jan 24 this year, a few weeks back, all republicans voted to kill the bill that came out of the judiciary that would NOT give retroactive immunity to the telecoms who spied on you for five years without a warrant. That spying started BEFORE 911.
The only people threatening to filibuster the retroactive immunity bill are democrats Dodd, Feingold, and Leahy.
All republican senators support retroactive immunity for the criminals violating the 4th Amendment of the Constitution and have said they will vote that way today.
Support Dodd's filibuster stop the republicans!!!
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
said on 2/12/2008 @ 7:17 am PT...
Feinstein is on the floor speaking now. She has a thing on her blouse that is a sign that appeared on german fascist warplanes during WWII.
The is a fascist pig along with all the rest of them that vote to give immunity to the fascist criminal telecoms.
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
said on 2/12/2008 @ 7:18 am PT...
Meaningless additions, Dredd.
In the face of the current capitulation the easy votes and feel-good votes did not matter. And the participants knew it.
The votes that matter are TODAY. And the participants know it.
And neither Clinton or Obama will be anywhere near the Senate TODAY.
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
said on 2/12/2008 @ 7:26 am PT...
Obama showed up and cast his first vote just now. He will vote for the 4th Amendment of the American Constitution all day, and against FISA fascism.
Reid moused out by saying no matter what they do preznit blush will not obey the law anyway. What that dorkism covers up is that he won't be breaking the law if they make the law what he wants.
Which is rank fascism.
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
said on 2/12/2008 @ 7:34 am PT...
so when ALL repubs voted for the sunset in 4 years does that include dr paul?
So they are trying to make spying legal,
what about omnivore, carnivore, eschelon, etc to name a few programs that have been around long b4 911? Didn't clinton or bush 1 have chips put into regular analog phones that allowed eavesdropping. Not saying i support it, but it's been going on a LONG time. And as far as the telecom industry is corrupt just look at its past all the way to the begining.
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
said on 2/12/2008 @ 7:37 am PT...
i agree that mCcain the maverick is no more and i lost all respect after he put his lips on george's arse.
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
said on 2/12/2008 @ 7:44 am PT...
If Democratic senators can't vote in large numbers to ensure there will be no immunity, then nobody should ever vote for them or the Republican senators. How can they offer immunity for a violation of the Constitution? Either it's the law of the land or our government is just a fake.
Do we have a Democracy?
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
said on 2/12/2008 @ 8:37 am PT...
... MarkH asked...
"Do we have a Democracy?"
67 Senators just voted "No" on your question.
Harry Reid's carefully scripted capitulation is on course and on schedule.
The telcos... and the government... are now immunized from any consequences for breaking the law in the past... present... and future.
Obama did show up, contrary to my expectations, and he "voted right"... and it was meaningless.
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
said on 2/12/2008 @ 8:40 am PT...
Inconsistencies have shown up in voting.
But not in the republicans. The vast majority, 95-100% of republicans are voting FOR fascist FISA.
Obama is consistently voting with Feingold and Dodd. McCain is consistently voting FOR all things FISA and against Obama, Feingold and Dodd.
Clinton is a no show.
I am with Obama, Feingold, and Dodd.
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
said on 2/12/2008 @ 8:46 am PT...
The opposite. ALL REPUBLICANS voted against the 4 year sunset, and thereby FOR the 6 year sunset. So thanks to them, if FISA passes, it will last at least 6 years instead of only 4 years.
BUT TAKE HEART ... it must go back to conference committee and the HOUSE must vote on it again before it can be sent to preznit blush.
Call your democratic and independent HOUSE members and urge them to vote the Senate version down ... in other words ... to not allow retroactive immunity to the fascist telecoms.
There are more democrats, by percentage, in the HOUSE than in the Senate. The HOUSE is less fascist than the Senate is.
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
said on 2/12/2008 @ 8:56 am PT...
Here is the link to the INCONSISTENCIES and the CONSISTENCIES on today's FISA voting.
Contact your HOUSE members and have them reject the conference bill if it has retroactive immunity for the telecoms.
FISA madness can still be stopped.
COMMENT #25 [Permalink]
said on 2/12/2008 @ 9:13 am PT...
And to forestall further questions... Senator Dodd essentially signed away his right to filibuster the results when he agreed to Reid's carefully scripted schedule.
And I'm sure the "Bush Dog" Dems in the House will take care of that little problem.
COMMENT #26 [Permalink]
said on 2/12/2008 @ 9:29 am PT...
This Fisa vote makes crystal clear who is for Democracy and who is for korporations and big brother government, and who is scared to show her true face. Seems to me 2/3 of the senators should find a new job their next election cycle.
COMMENT #27 [Permalink]
said on 2/12/2008 @ 9:40 am PT...
Somebody's worried... the voting schedule has been accelerated to warp speed.
Cloture... to close debate on a bill and move the bill as a whole to a vote... and there were 68 Yes votes.
The FISA bill itself is now being voted on...
COMMENT #28 [Permalink]
said on 2/12/2008 @ 9:57 am PT...
What if the repubs. help US out with election fraud? McCain is not liked in his own party. Huckabee is harder to hate. He does seem to be more mentally agile..ie a sense of humor. What happened in Washington state was stupid. It will be easy to prove election fraud. Some repubs. don't know that the days that total impunity for their actions has come and gone. Reminds me of my dog chasing a squirrel..just as she was barreling down on squirrel...squirrel did a little sidestep and my dog kept on running. Repubs. are still running with "We'll take care of the votes."
COMMENT #29 [Permalink]
said on 2/12/2008 @ 10:07 am PT...
My guess is that 95-100% of republicans in the HOUSE will vote to approve the conference bill that comes out of conference.
We need a majority of House representatives to vote to reject the Senate telecom immunity bill (a.k.a. FISA).
430 429 total members (one dem died yesterday). So we need 215 votes to constitute a majority to vote against FISA there.
There are 231 dems and 198 repubs ... so even if all republicans vote fascist, and 16 dems vote fascist, FISA still fails.
COMMENT #30 [Permalink]
said on 2/12/2008 @ 10:11 am PT...
my mistake... Dodd will get 4 hours of "filibuster" time after lunch... and then the Constitution will take the final plunge.
For those tuning in late: the Senate of the United States has been busy today voting to give Bush and the telcos all the surveillance powers he wanted as well as immunity for past, present, and future crimes.
And in 4 hours the final Senate vote will be held on the FISA bill that's even worse than the "Protect America Act".
COMMENT #31 [Permalink]
said on 2/12/2008 @ 10:26 am PT...
... er... Dredd... you have no conception of how deep the corruption runs. At last count there were 48 "Blue Dogs" in the House and of those the following have earned the sobriquet of "Bush Dog" Democrats:
AL-05: Bud Cramer
AR-02: Vic Snyder
AR-04: Mike Ross
CA-20: Jim Costa
CO-03: John Salazar
FL-02: Alan Boyd
GA-08: Jim Marshall
GA-12: John Barrow
IA-03: Leonard Boswell
IL-03: Dan Lipinski
IL-08: Melissa Bean
IN-02: Joe Donnelly
IN-08: Brad Ellsworth
IN-09: Baron Hill
KY-06: Ben Chandler
LA-03: Charlie Melancon
MS-04: Gene Taylor
MN-01: Tim Walz
MN-07: Colin Peterson
NC-07: Mike McIntyre
NC-02: Bob Etheridge
NC-11: Heath Shuler
ND-AL: Earl Pomeroy
OH-06: Charlie Wilson
OH-18: Zack Space
OK-02: Dan Boren
PA-04: Jason Altmire
PA-10: Chris Carney
SD-AL: Stephanie Herseth
TN-04: Lamar Davis
TN-05: Jim Cooper
TN-06: Bart Gordon
TN-08: John Tanner
TX-17: Chet Edwards
TX-22: Nick Lampson
TX-23: Ciro Rodriguez
TX-28: Henry Cuellar
UT-02: Jim Matheson
WA-03: Brian Baird
COMMENT #32 [Permalink]
said on 2/12/2008 @ 10:45 am PT...
FISA, if it passes, will then go to conference committee. The reason is that the House Bill did not have the retroactive telecom immunity in it.
Thus there must be an agreement between the two realms of congress, both House and Senate.
If the conference committee (composed of several House and Senate members) agrees and the retroactive immunity is still in it, then since there will in effect have been a change, the House must agree with the Senate changes or the FISA bill fails.
The full house must vote on it if it comes out of that conference committee.
If it does not come out of that conference committee it is dead until raised from the dead.
THEN after all that, and if it passes both House and Senate, and preznit blush thereafter signs it ... it heads for the courts.
There it will be tested against the Fourth Amendment, which says:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
(Bill of Rights, emphasis added). That is the part of the Constitution that FISA repeals.
"It is too much weeerrrkkkk to do the constitutional stuff" is the fascist argument, "and since we are modern, fat, and don't like weeerrrkkk f**k the Americans, we want to become Amurkans" is what they feel inside.
Some good dailykos bloggers are watching with us.
COMMENT #33 [Permalink]
said on 2/12/2008 @ 10:59 am PT...
blue bush dogs in the House could not get the retroactive telecom immunity into the bill days ago before the Senate began the current FISA vote, so it is not logical yet to think just because they are fascists that they will be able to now.
There is only one less vote since Lantos died yesterday. The House already voted the retroactive immunity provision down before, and there is every reason to have the audacity of hope that they will again.
Keep hope alive!!!
COMMENT #34 [Permalink]
said on 2/12/2008 @ 1:48 pm PT...
At least Batman isn't afraid to call the rats when he's had more than just occasion to smell them! If only the other senators so willing to sacrafice liberty for so called security had some real historical memory, and a brain.
I guess cheney telling you to go fuck yourself kinda sticks with you!
COMMENT #35 [Permalink]
said on 2/12/2008 @ 1:58 pm PT...
Even specter wants to hold the government accountable. You PEOPLE out there better get busy on your state's election integrity, or just start selling your children NOW.
COMMENT #36 [Permalink]
said on 2/13/2008 @ 5:10 am PT...
Maybe they should let bushie supreme delegates decide the INCONSISTENCIES in the Snohomish County results?
Evidently the supreme bushie delegates, who "elected" preznit blush can only decide little stuff like who is preznit, but not big matters.
Supreme bushie delegate (there are 5 of them) says courts can't stop torture:
Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia rejected the notion that US courts have any control over the actions of American troops at Guantanamo Bay, argued that torture of terror detainees is not banned under the US Constitution and insisted that the high court has no obligation to act as a moral beacon for other nations.
"We don't pretend to be some Western Mullahs who decide what is right and wrong for the whole world," Scalia told a BBC interviewer Tuesday, defending narrow interpretation of the reach the US Constitution gives the nine justices on the country's high court.
Scalia said it was "extraordinary" to suggest that the 8th Amendment, which prohibits the government from engaging in "cruel and unusual punishment," could be applied to the actions of US interrogators questioning foreign subjects detained overseas. In his view, Scalia said that while the 8th Amendment would prohibit locking up someone indefinitely as punishment for a crime, for example, the CIA or military would be perfectly justified keeping a suspected insurgent or member of al Qaeda imprisoned forever if the detainee refused to answer questions.
(Scalia wags tongue, emphasis added). What fascism? What election machine problems?
Let the supreme bushie delegates be the deciders of Snohomish problems?
COMMENT #37 [Permalink]
said on 2/14/2008 @ 5:24 am PT...
RE post #33
The House has stopped the FISA bill dead in its tracks for the time being:
The fate of the surveillance law remains unclear.
COMMENT #38 [Permalink]
said on 2/14/2008 @ 6:25 am PT...
RE post #32
The preznit blush has threatened to veto any bill that limits or forbids water torture a.k.a. waterboarding.
So the conference committee reviewing the FISA bill (HR 2082), after it passed the Senate 68-29, attached a provision that forbids water torture.
If the preznit blush vetoes it he will veto the spy on america act and the retroactive immunity for telecoms provisions in the act.
My guess is that if the conference bill gets thru the House, preznit blush will add a signing statement saying he will obey those parts he wants to and not obey the rest, instead of vetoing it as he promised. As usual for this "law and order" preznit blush.