READER COMMENTS ON
"FBI Reveals Its Summary Case Against Bruce Ivins"
(18 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
said on 8/6/2008 @ 11:24 pm PT...
I don't think the FBI can just declare a case solved and everybody just packs up and goes home, but if they can, or if that's what they are going to do even if they can't, just like the rest of this administration, that's all the more reason to suspect he was suicided.
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2008 @ 3:30 am PT...
Well maybe the FBI is on a run...maybe they have solved the Clinton Curtis Whistle Blower case .You know the one that resulted in thousands of deaths (both directly and indirectly)from compromised electronic voting machines and ballot tabulators .
That should go before a Grand Jury.
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2008 @ 4:58 am PT...
I tells ya, go and read Meryl Nass' blog.
The one thing that I surmised is that the reporter, Gary Matsumoto, is inside, check this out:
Matsumoto is a peculiar journalist. We had a number of conversations. He would not get off the phone, sometimes staying on for an hour or more. He would harass me, in an attempt to shape the story. He worked very hard, trying to force me to say that the only problem with anthrax vaccine was its squalene adjuvant, although there were many reasons to question that assertion. I hung up on him more than once, exasperated, and no doubt I used some foul language describing our conversations to others.
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2008 @ 6:29 am PT...
When it hits MSM 6 o'clock news, you know they are trying to sell the public so they can call the case solved and officially closed. There is absolutely nothing they have offered that in any way resembles concret evidence. Mr. Ivins unfortunately had some help . . . yah suicide!
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2008 @ 6:42 am PT...
I read on one of the sites that Ivins gave himself the anthrax vaccine every six months in order to continue working in the lab. It had to be given that frequently because it doesn't last very long. By one estimate he had been vaccinated 33 times against anthrax. Now it is reported that he had been suffering for a number of years from serious mental illness. I have to wonder what effect the anthrax vaccine had on him. It is believed by many to be responsible for Gulf War Syndrome. It is know to carry a number of high risks. If he had a tendency toward depression and paranoia, God only knows how this condition might have worsened with each shot. Of course, since vaccines are generally considered sacred cows ("the benefits outweight the risks"), I seriously doubt anyone in the mainstream will even raise this question.
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2008 @ 10:41 am PT...
While the NPR story seems pretty good, it, the initial AP story, and the initial NYT story all have a significant inaccuracy. This inaccuracy was used to lead the NYT story and I believe was the main thrust of the initial AP story.
The error, in all three stories and others I've found, claimed that "a few days before the attacks" (worded slightly differently in the different stories), Ivins sent an email warning "Bin Laden terrorists for sure have anthrax and sarin gas." Sounds extremely suspicious written like that --- as though he were planning to pin the attacks on Muslims in advance of doing them, which is what the letters enclosed in the attacks do. But, within those affidavits for warrants are the email in question. And guess what? The email in question was sent eight days AFTER the first attacks were postmarked, on the same day the Washington Times did a story saying bin laden was trying to get sarin and anthrax. And all three stories omitted Ivins' phrase "I just heard tonight" before "Bin Laden terrorists for sure have anthrax and sarin gas." I wonder when the lab was first told about someone getting a letter? I imagine they must've arrived by Sept. 26. And even if the letters hadn't been tested for anthrax, the letters included the word "anthrax." Could it be that this email --- painted as so damning --- was something he sent after being told about the anthrax mailings at work?
Regardless, Ivins' Sept. 26 email is not particularly suspicious at all when one doesn't lie about when it was sent and omit "I just heard tonight." Why'd they all get the story wrong? At least part of the reason is probably that the postal inspector summarized the email incorrectly in the exact same way at the top of the warrant. I wonder if the feds were also still pushing that lie/distortion as a talking point. It seems likely since it led at least two major stories.
I contacted the NYT and AP last night and their stories have been corrected. I contacted NPR today, so hopefully that article will be corrected soon. The NYT deleted a comment I had left complaining about the error and then noting that it was corrected, once it was (more than an hour after I complained). That's too bad, because there's a much larger point than just correcting the error --- somehow multiple news sources are getting this information wrong. Information that at least two of the publications saw as important enough to lead their stories on the feds' case. And it's important to note that the top of the warrant is misleading and actually wrong. The phrase "sole custodian" has also been bandied about, despite the fact that apparently 100 people had access to that anthrax. This is a serious obfuscation.
It just goes to show the need for a full and impartial vetting of all of the claims and to see the actual evidence. Maybe he is guilty. But, I'm not just going to take the claims at face value with no examination of the evidence. This is too important to our nation to do that. If Dr. Ivins were not responsible, or even if he was not solely responsible, the culprit(s), who committed an extremely successful attack and helped propel policies of wars, torture, indefinite detention, and spying on Americans are still free to continue plotting, killing, and manipulating public policy. And after the Hatfill mess, why would we assume the case is solved correctly? And even the feds admit their case is circumstantial and that they can't tie him to driving to NJ/the mailbox. I still don't even know if he COULD make weaponized anthrax.
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2008 @ 1:11 pm PT...
Gary Matsumoto is really inside this investigation:
Vaccine-A uncovers a story of betrayal—the betrayal of the men and women who serve in the armed forces, the betrayal of medical ethics, and the betrayal of the American people by military and civilian leaders sworn to defend and protect. Veteran journalist Gary Matsumoto shows that the worst friendly-fire incident in military history came from something no soldier had any reason to think would harm him: a vaccine administered by the military's own medics...His 1998 article in Vanity Fair was the first to draw the connection between the anthrax vaccine and Gulf War Syndrome.
Oh Yeah Link
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2008 @ 1:56 pm PT...
A challenge, for everyone. Worse case scenario. What do you think the truth is? A question. Is the underlying general consensus now "suspecting murder".
If so, lets hear you worse case scenario.
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2008 @ 3:18 pm PT...
Anthony, I'm getting the feeling that getting rid of Ivins was a two-fer now:
1-Solving Anthrax attacks
2-Getting rid of any evidence that he had that ties the anthrax vaccine to Gulf War Syndrome
The plot thickens
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2008 @ 4:11 pm PT...
More from that Vaccine-A site:
In 1978, the Pentagon began developing an anthrax vaccine of unsurpassed safety and purity. Soon, however, military scientists learned that their new vaccine, though pure, was also ineffective. To remedy this they added an oil called squalene—an "adjuvant"—to stimulate the immune system. What the scientists didn't know, but should have known, is that squalene causes autoimmune diseases: chronic and even life-threatening diseases like lupus erythematosus, crippling arthritis, and multiple sclerosis. Matsumoto reveals that even very recently, squalene-laced "vaccine A" continues to be secretly injected into Army, Navy, and Air Force personnel.
Did Ivins know anything about this?
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2008 @ 5:15 pm PT...
Thar she blows Matey!:
. "The political problem became a problem to me when they dropped the ball and allowed the program to continue. It was politics that motivated them to investigate and it was politics that motivated them to allow the program to continue."
Military official who leaked memo on problems with Anthrax vaccine.
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2008 @ 5:55 pm PT...
Does anyone know when the first anthrax letter was reported to authorities? Not when it was tested postive for anthrax, but when the first person opened it, read it, and called authorities?
I want to know if it was before or after Dr. Ivins' Sept 26 email. Regardless, I think the letter is not particularly suspicious (as long as one doesn't cut the phrase "I just heard tonight" and lie about its date). If the feds are not only lying about the letter's timing, and deleting an important phrase, but also knew that the authorities already had known about an anthrax letter by then, that's pretty major.
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2008 @ 6:53 pm PT...
Found the date the anthrax letters were discovered
I think I found the answer to my question: I don't think any of the letters were reported to authorities by 9/26. It looks like the NBC one was opened soon after Sept. 18, but the person opening it didn't realize for awhile that it could be dangerous and seemingly did not report it. ( http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14785359/ ) It sounds like the others weren't opened, or at least reported, for at least a couple of weeks. http://www.ph.ucla.edu/E...ers_a.htm#Post%20envelop The NY Post one was also recovered, it was found on Oct. 19.
They only inferred that there were letters sent to ABC, it was not recovered. There was apparently a letter addressed to Jennifer Lopez with a Star of David that they think was the National Enquirer letter, which ws not recovered.
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
said on 8/7/2008 @ 8:36 pm PT...
I pulled this excerpt from an MSNBC article, which actually questions why ivins continued to work at Ft Dietrick after he was being investigated by the feds...
"Privacy concerns, bureaucratic loopholes, the demands of a criminal investigation — all combined to let Ivins keep his job and stay out of jail for years. And in the high-security lab until last November.
Or was it just that the government's evidence was too weak to act? That's what Ivins' attorney says.
"If it's such earth-shattering stuff, what's been going on since 2005?" Paul F. Kemp asked Wednesday after the government made its case with a news conference and a pile of documents. "Why is he on the street if they think it's that important?"
That question goes beyond the criminal investigation. It goes to the heart of how secure the nation's nearly 1,400 biological defense labs are and whether the estimated 14,000 scientists working with deadly toxins are being screened for the kind of mental illness Ivins exhibited."
What really caught my attention was the use of the term "biological defense labs". They are not just defense labs, they are weapons labs. If they were in Iraq, they'd for sure be weapons labs, and we'd have an excuse to invade. Sure hope the Chinese aren't gearing up to disarm us from our WMD, being the threat to world peace that we are.
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
said on 8/8/2008 @ 4:35 am PT...
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
said on 8/9/2008 @ 6:11 pm PT...
I was on the right track, good motive for bumping him off, but no proof he did it.
The stakes were particularly high for Dr. Ivins, who, for nearly a decade, had been leading experiments in which laboratory animals — rabbits, monkeys and mice — were injected with vaccines that each had slightly different additives in an effort to increase their effectiveness.
Critics of the program were accusing the Defense Department of using one of the experimental formulas, which featured an oil-based additive called squalene, in vaccines given to military personnel in the gulf war, a decision, they contended, that may have caused autoimmune diseases among returning soldiers.
“It is well documented that the U.S. military has a history of administering experimental vaccines to the troops,” said Gary Matsumoto, who was doing research on a book on the anthrax program and who had submitted Freedom of Information requests to the Army requesting access to Dr. Ivins’s laboratory notebooks.
And the motive?, a cover up IMO (bold mine)
The Defense Department denied conducting such experiments on troops and defended the vaccine, saying it was both safe and effective, and necessary to protect the military from a possible attack. Dr. Ivins’s notebooks, which were released to the public, suggested, however, that he had found that the vaccine might be making some of the test animals sick.
case closed? Not by a long shot
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
said on 8/9/2008 @ 6:30 pm PT...
Do the math, "more than 570,000 military personnel" received the vaccine times, lets say, a half a million a piece settlement?
Is that a motive or what?
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
said on 8/9/2008 @ 7:09 pm PT...
One more question,
Did the Rumsfeld run, Carlisle funded lab that manufactured the vaccine alter the formula that Ivins used in any way that made it more toxic?