READER COMMENTS ON
"Obama Announces Biden as VP Choice at 3 A.M."
(32 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
said on 8/23/2008 @ 7:20 am PT...
Good choice! Hopefully, he will light a fire in this campaign and get it going!
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
said on 8/23/2008 @ 8:29 am PT...
Now I want to see Joe Biden get out there and say, "... John McCain, there's only three things he mentions in a sentence --- a noun and a verb and POW and I mean, there's nothing else. There's nothing else."
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
said on 8/23/2008 @ 8:52 am PT...
Joe Biden is a good man. I am proud to have him representing us as a nation. He is a fighter that knows how to lay out an argument. He will be a tough candidate to defeat. He would have been my pick over Obama. The primary debates were so biased that most of the better candidates (Kucinich, Dodd, Biden, Gravel, Ron Paul) barely got to speak. Now lets get to kicking some Neo Con ass.
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
said on 8/23/2008 @ 9:52 am PT...
Proves how savvy I am - - - He was my pick for veep, with Richardson for Secretary of State. (he's not as cute as Condi, but he gives a damn about the country.) But that's for later. I hope they can counter the Rovian slime machine. The main problem with American voters is that they will tell you they don't believe the slanders, and base how they vote on those very same slanders. It seems that in order to get elected in this country you have to descend to depths of nastiness a self-respecting sewer rat would avoid. McCain seems to revel in this kind of filth, and that puts the Democrats at a disadvantage, because Democrats are basically decent people who will try to stay out of the gutter if they can, and do not even think of descending to the sewer level that seems to be a comfortable home for the Atwater-Rove Republicans. I HOPE Biden can figure a way to counter the character assassination that will shortly descend on his shoulders. Maybe if they tell enough lies about him, he'll be moved to tell the truth about McCain.
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
said on 8/23/2008 @ 11:12 am PT...
As a woman i feel betrayed, i will place my vote elsewhere,this was the party of change . What ive seen is the good old boys network is in charge. I also wont be voting for mccain, he is the same as voting for Bush , and look where that took us.
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
said on 8/23/2008 @ 11:23 am PT...
Stuart Granger's brother !!!
(I can't get over how much they look alike)
Maybe Joe could do a little swashbuckling for us
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
said on 8/23/2008 @ 1:00 pm PT...
He voted for the Iraq AUMF and funding for war
He voted for the Bankruptcy Act
Plagiarized law school paper and in 1987 campaign a speech from a British labor leader.
sorry but I think this just shows that D's and R's are indeed pieces of one beast not opponents.
Zinn was right:
I'm not taking some ultra-left position that elections are totally insignificant, and that we should refuse to vote to preserve our moral purity. Yes, there are candidates who are somewhat better than others, and at certain times of national crisis (the Thirties, for instance, or right now) where even a slight difference between the two parties may be a matter of life and death.
I'm talking about a sense of proportion that gets lost in the election madness. Would I support one candidate against another? Yes, for two minutes-the amount of time it takes to pull the lever down in the voting booth.
But before and after those two minutes, our time, our energy, should be spent in educating, agitating, organizing our fellow citizens in the workplace, in the neighborhood, in the schools. Our objective should be to build, painstakingly, patiently but energetically, a movement that, when it reaches a certain critical mass, would shake whoever is in the White House, in Congress, into changing national policy on matters of war and social justice.
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
said on 8/23/2008 @ 1:02 pm PT...
Lizabeth - Please lets have some perspective here. I have long been a Nader supporter, not because of the man but because of the ideas, but I know that our political system has no room for a 3rd party rock the boat campaign. So I have to vote Democratic until the system changes. The Republicans cannot be allowed free reign of our country for four more years - or ever again. I would have liked to see a woman VP - not Clinton, but Sibelius or Napolitano, McCaskill from MO, all would have been excellent choices for this ticket EXCEPT political change happens slowly, and I do not think a Black/Woman ticket can win in this racist and sexist country of ours.
A black man as president is a mammoth step forward for this nation. Be happy. And think Supreme Court. What will a McCain presidency do for the judiciary. (You don't have to struggle, he's already said it - more Alito, more Scalia, moe Roberts.) Goodbye Roe. Hello unitary executive.
Think on it. Vote.
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
said on 8/23/2008 @ 1:37 pm PT...
One day, and I hope in my lifetime, there will be a woman who makes it onto the general election ticket, and that woman will be someone who made it to that point completely on her own merit, someone who will not be following in her husband's coattails.
I hope HRC becomes a Supreme Court Justice, arguably a far more influential position than that of US Pres.
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
said on 8/23/2008 @ 1:48 pm PT...
Hilary was just too flawed, too much of a liability. Seriously, she was the former Wal-Mart corporate legal counsel for chrissakes. I was pulling for Edwards, but since he's toast, Biden is the next best choice from the establishment Dems. I too would prefer Nader, but I'm not wasting my vote. The stakes are too high, and most importantly right now we have to kick the neocons to the curb by hook or by crook. So Obama/Biden it is.
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
said on 8/23/2008 @ 1:51 pm PT...
abacus: "Our objective should be to build, painstakingly, patiently but energetically, a movement that, when it reaches a certain critical mass, would shake whoever is in the White House, in Congress, into changing national policy on matters of war and social justice."
Exactly! That is exactly what the Neo-Con/Christian Right started doing during the Regan years and though it took 20+ years they have hi-jacked the Republican party, moved the Democratic party to where the Republicans were in the 60's and completely dominate the political landscape. We see where that has brought us.
The long view is the only view worth having on a national level and I hope the DNC and their allies are up to the challenge. I also hope that the electorate is up to the challenge by transforming the Democratic party, even if the party resists.
It can be done, has been done, needs to be done again.
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
said on 8/23/2008 @ 2:08 pm PT...
Linda: "I hope HRC becomes a Supreme Court Justice, arguably a far more influential position than that of US Pres." You got that right!
I recall a story about Strom Thurmond, President Pro Tempore of the Senate twice , serially Chairman of the Judiciary Committee and then Armed Services Committee; and a very bad man. A friend asked him (in the 60's or 70's as I recall) why he didn't run (again) for President and he replied (allegedly) "and give up all my power?"
I'd like to see senator Clinton as one of the Supremes too.
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
said on 8/23/2008 @ 4:32 pm PT...
SoulRebel #8 wrote:
"What will a McCain presidency do for the judiciary. (You don't have to struggle, he's already said it - more Alito, more Scalia, moe Roberts.) Goodbye Roe. Hello unitary executive."
The DEMS gave us Alito and Roberts, or have you forgotten that? Neither would be on the bench today if the Dems hadn't helped to put them there. Period. So one can flush that Supreme Court argument down the toilet where it belongs because it is no longer a credible reason for why one must vote for Mr Hope/Change and his bullshit. For the Supreme Court, as president he would only NOMINATE. It's up to the Bush-enabling Senate to confirm or deny the nominee. Do you really think that Walk-On-Water Obama or McCain would nominate a real, true Liberal/Progressive to the Supreme Court? LOL. I-don't-think-so. And we already have the Unitary Executive enabled by the fully complicit and enabling Bush Dems who have helped the illegitimate Bush regime accomplish most of their goals since 2000. It is not just the Repugs who are responsible for where we are today. The Dems are equally responsible, but I realize partisan Dem koolaid drinkers can't bear to say that and tell the truth.
And Biden? That's "change" eh? LOL. Although I'm not the least bit surprised by the selection.
----------> Nader/Gonzalez 2008, if there is an "election."
----------> Cindy Sheehan to replace Bush-enabler and Traitor of the House Pelosi.
Now, I realize most people out of FEAR will not vote for Nader/Gonzalez. People will allow FEAR to make their choice for them.
The last 2 presidential "elections" have been stolen by the Repugs so why would one think that 2008 (if there is an "election) would be any differently when the voters will be voting on the same corrupt and easily-hackable e-voting machines?...which are all over the nation now.
Assuming Bush/Cheney leave in 2009 (I'll believe that when I see it) and assuming they don't use Directive 51 (why would they put something in place not to use it?), if the White House occupant changes in January 2009 nothing is going to change for the positive regardless. And those who have been paying close attention to what pro-war, pro-corporate, anti-US Constitution/pro-FISA Obama is about and what he has said outside of pabulum speeches know what I'm talking about.
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
said on 8/23/2008 @ 4:41 pm PT...
The definition of Insanity:
Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. (Like voting for Dems one "election" cycle after the other out of FEAR and expecting positive change.)
In this political context, this definition of Insanity is spot-on.
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
said on 8/23/2008 @ 5:19 pm PT...
Hillary Clinton on the Supreme Court?
Clinton, who voted for the AUMF, a vote for Congress to surrender the Constitution to the executive?
Who votes for more funding for war?
Who voted for the Patriot Acts?
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
said on 8/23/2008 @ 8:34 pm PT...
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
said on 8/23/2008 @ 8:52 pm PT...
I have no illusions about the Democrats. But there is no doubt in my mind that the Republicans are worse - far worse. Who was Bush going to nominate to the Supreme Court who wouldn't have been completely repulsive? So yes, the Dems helped put them there, and Mukasey too. But it wasn't going to get any better. Perspective.
Ralph is my man, I donate to him and support his policy positions. But he ain't going to win. I have children to think about, I can't afford another Republican presidency.
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
said on 8/23/2008 @ 9:46 pm PT...
To those who say that to not vote for a candidate like Nader or McKinney is to give in to the insanity ...
Clinton-supporters, or Kucinich-supporters, or Nader-supporters, or McKinney-supporters, who think they're making some point by not voting in November, or by voting for a third party candidate with no chance whatsoever of winning in today's political climate, should stop pretending to be above the current US political fray. You are not above it until you are above it, until you demonstrate your admission that the system is broken, by going beyond the simple and easy act of not voting for either of the two major party candidates.
You're either in the game, or you're out of it. Just don't pretend that you're out of it when you've done nothing of any consequence that demonstrates that you ARE out of it. Criticizing others for staying in it doesn't count.
Your holier-than-thou candidates like Nader and McKinney haven't tasted the power yet to an extent that would provide them with the access to do just as much damage as the current thugs in the WH. Your belief that they would not do so is naive.
I guess I'm just tired of people not putting themselves on the line for what they purport to believe, while purporting so forcefully their supposed beliefs.
Go ahead and provide explanations of why we all need to give up on the Obama/McCain race and try to turn it into another race altogether. Your explanations are only words, though. If you truly thought that our system was broken to a degree that voting no longer made a difference, then you would do more than simply advise others not to vote, or to vote for a candidate with no chance whatsoever of winning.
Of course, this is only my opinion.
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
said on 8/23/2008 @ 9:53 pm PT...
Soul Rebel #17:
May I remind you that when the Dems were presented with Alito and Roberts, in both cases, they said they would filibuster until they got a good nominee. But....no filibusters and very little opposition. In fact, they said, "we need to keep our powder dry."
And now, Walk On Water Obama who has moved to the right, and I'm not sure if it's to the right of McCain or Cheney, but it is definitely to the right when he says he's moving troop from Iraq to Afghanistan, and he's talked about attacking Iran and Pakistan, and he's bought into this "war on terror" nonsense and he is also taking Bush's position on the Georgia/Russia affair, and now his VP pick is anti-choice, anti-gay marriage, pro-war, pro-USAPATRIOT ACT...you see THEY ARE THE SAME AS THE REPUGS. Those in Denial refuse to see this.
So when you say you can't afford another Repug presidency, that's exactly what you're going to get with either Repugs Obama or McCain.
Why are you playing into the corporate FEAR card? Why aren't you voting for your best interests and spreading it to others, instead of sitting here whining about why you can't vote for credible, truly progressive candidates such as Nader/Gonzalez?
The definition of Insanity:
Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. (Like voting for Dems one "election" cycle after the other out of FEAR and expecting positive change.)
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
said on 8/23/2008 @ 11:33 pm PT...
I did not like Richard Nixon, but he said at least one true thing; "MONEY is the Mother's Milk of Politics." In this election cycle, we have the netroots bucks from the people, backing Obama/Biden, trying to compete with the coffers of organized crime that McCain/????? will dip into. The only hope I have for the PEOPLE is that the Mob is fed up with the total ineptitude of the Bush gang, (Google Bush + organized crime) and may desert McCain if he continues to support the Bush "Calamity."
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
said on 8/24/2008 @ 1:13 am PT...
It may have been netroots that helped Obama compete with Hillary in the early days, but since he won his first primary, he's been raking it in from the fat cats like everyone else.
Assuming Obama and McCain are both actually nominated at their conventions, the cold fact is: either Obama or McCain will win in November... assuming, too, there is an election then. So we have to vote for Obama if we want to keep the Supreme Court from going 100% fascist and to keep a doddering and cantankerous old sellout away from the button.
They have us at gunpoint. Those are your choices. Either help Obama win or make him lose.
He's got Biden onboard to help convince AIPAC we'll blow up Iran for them if it comes down to it, and the military-industrial-intelligence complex they can have their cold war. And since those are the forces behind the neocons, we better hope Biden does the trick.
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
said on 8/24/2008 @ 2:18 am PT...
Biden is a vastly superior candidate to Obama, whom I cannot support after his FISA vote sellout. Biden's very strong performances in the Democratic primary debates show that he is the best mainstream Democratic candidate for national leadership, after Edwards self-destructed. I will be voting for the Obama/Biden ticket in November. I consider this a vote for Biden, not Obama.
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
said on 8/24/2008 @ 2:27 am PT...
Comment #21 reminds me of listening to the Mike Malloy Show as of late, regarding the Supreme Court argument.
I wrote two earlier comments about how the DEMS helped put Alito and Roberts on the Supreme Court. None of the Dems were required to vote FOR Alito or Roberts, but to continue their job of enabling Bush, the Dems chose to vote FOR seating Alito and Roberts on the Supreme Court.
Then along comes Comment #21 saying "So we have to vote for Obama if we want to keep the Supreme Court from going 100% fascist..."
Psssssst: Alito and Roberts...the Dems.
Again, based on the Dems' miserable Bush-enabling performance since 2000, the DEMS would clearly finish off the job of making the Supreme Court 100% fascist. One would not have to worry about the Repugs doing that because the Dems would be more than willing to do the job instead, based on the Dems' history since 2000.
Mike Malloy receives one call after the other and one e-mail after the other using the Supreme Court argument as the #1 reason why one must vote for Walk On Water Obama. (There's the FEAR card again). Well, no sooner than Mike has explained in detail to one caller what I just explained earlier about the Supreme Court, another damn fool calls up and uses the Supreme Court argument yet again. Duh. Then Mike reads another e-mail saying "you have to vote for Obama...remember the Supreme Court." At that point Mike Malloy has to go through the entire thing all over again for the umpteenth time because of dense, thick people who apparently don't listen. Lately, he has screamed "PLEASE STOP CALLING ME AND SENDING ME E-MAILS ABOUT THE SUPREME COURT. I HAVE GONE THROUGH THIS OVER AND OVER. ARE YOU MORONS?"
Yes, I'm afraid they are, Mike. You "get it" but most people don't because they don't want to. Instead, they will vote out of FEAR once again (if there is an "election"), as they do over and over one "election" cycle after the other. Insanity.
So in Mike Malloy style, here goes:
Who gave us Alito and Roberts? THE DEMS.
And someone is concerned about McCain and the Repugs making the Supreme Court 100% fascists? The Dems will do the job instead. Their two recent examples: Alito and Roberts.
But I'm sure someone else will come along and say: Supreme Court, Supreme Court!
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
said on 8/24/2008 @ 3:37 am PT...
Okay, Erma. Vote against Obama. He might appoint fascists too. Probably not, but he certainly has shown us he's willing to do that sort of thing. So do what you think is best.
The Democrats did indeed give us Alito and Roberts, and there's nothing but hope, and a little solid party history, to say they wouldn't do the same when they are the ones who make the nominations.
Thing is, we're CERTAIN McCain will, and nearly certain Obama won't.
This choice is not good enough for me by a long shot. The whole pack of candidates on both sides stunk. I hate this choice, but the differences you say don't exist do exist. The choice is between not good enough and completely, irredeemably not good at all. It's a rotten choice, but not voting, or voting for anyone else is making the choice too.
You try to talk as if you're so hard-headed, no scales on your eyes, and we're all daffodils to vote for a Democrat. It's as big a pose, as deluded as you say we are.
The situation is DESPERATE for millions of people.
How is your little rationale for pissing their lives away any more virtuous than the Democrats'? Wouldn't it be better to swing from OBAMA'S earlobes to make him a decent president than to just keep coming back here testing excuses for throwing your vote to the Republicans?
COMMENT #25 [Permalink]
said on 8/24/2008 @ 3:48 am PT...
In fact, I don't like Obama, but I think we could count on him being a better president than Bubba was. He's slicker than Bubba is, and he has more heart. So, really, in the real world, we can't do any better.
No matter what you say, we can't do any better, and doing as you propose means doing worse.
COMMENT #26 [Permalink]
said on 8/24/2008 @ 7:24 am PT...
Mike Malloy is so out of touch now it's not even funny. . .
COMMENT #27 [Permalink]
said on 8/24/2008 @ 7:40 am PT...
I like to think alito and roberts are a product of Dem leadership ... so now we have an opportunity to pick new Leadership (none are perfect).
COMMENT #28 [Permalink]
said on 8/25/2008 @ 12:14 am PT...
So, really, in the real world, we can't do any better.
No matter what you say, we can't do any better,..."
Sounds like that "HOPE" that Obama's been pimping is fleeting, or is it now so fully co-opted into his Brand, that it's impossible to have "HOPE" sans Obama?
Also, I prefer the term "serious people," to "the real world," when snidely dismissing someone's idea as in,
So, seriously, serious people know we can't do any better.
No matter what you say, we can't do better..."
In honor of Erma, who seems to be able to see beyond the Good Cop/Bad Cop FEAR techniques that are used by the fascist oligarchy to divide and conquer the citizenry, a little bit of 2500 year old wisdom:
What does it mean that hope is as hollow as fear?
Hope and fear are both phantoms
that arise from thinking of the self.
When we don't see the self as self,
what do we have to fear?
Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching ch.13
Also, how's this for better: since this site opines extensively about the hackability of the "elections" and the many ways it has been corrupted in the recent past, and how some of those corruptions have been institutionalized rather than corrected or illiminated, I proposed a while back that we (me, brad, other election integrity activists) should organize some hackers to "steal" the election for an absurd(even fictional) candidate in order to show just how tamperable the system is. I now think the election should be rigged for Osama Bin Laden to win, which would make for some interesting television come "election" night.
I think that's a better idea that voting for either Major Brand Name party's candidate, and that it should be done, seriously, in the Real World.
COMMENT #29 [Permalink]
said on 8/25/2008 @ 12:33 am PT...
Go ahead and blow off the best interests of all those people then.
Have a great time joking around with hundreds of thousands, millions, of lives. That's about The American Way.
Lao Tzu would also tell you it doesn't matter if it's a "fear technique"... it's true.
Serious people know it.
COMMENT #30 [Permalink]
said on 8/25/2008 @ 8:16 am PT...
Joe Biden sponsored the RAVE act, which has been used to quell dissent by allowing the authorities to cancel electronic concerts.
Can you imagine how the 60's would have been different if Nixon banned Rock Concerts?
This is Biden treats other Americans.
COMMENT #31 [Permalink]
said on 8/25/2008 @ 10:20 am PT...
There is another alternative to expressing disgust and frustration with the system that makes it necessary for leaders to pander to special interests in order to get elected, an alternative other than not voting or voting for a third party candidate. But be warned. This alternative requires sacrifice.
You can vote for the only electable candidate who is not gonna fer sure blow up every corner of the world in a last-ditch, wildly off-the-mark effort to stamp out religious extremist terrorism, who is not gonna fer sure continue to do nothing about bringing nations together to work on global climate change, who is not gonna fer sure increase tax breaks for US citizens who inherit estates worth over $7 mn at the expense of the rest of us, who is not gonna fer sure increase corporate tax breaks by another whopping 10%, allowing even more US and foreign corporations to pay zero taxes on their trillions in profits earned in America, who is not gonna fer sure further consolidate our media, opening the door to further media censorship, and who is not gonna fer sure not do a damn thing about helping America's middle class pay for health care, and then you can become very, very active, as in doing way more than just complaining and voting, two relatively easy acts of citizenship, to move our country in the direction you think it should head.
COMMENT #32 [Permalink]
said on 8/25/2008 @ 10:59 am PT...
The bottom line is get the gop Greedy Old Perverts OUT ~ For Now. . .