Presuming President Obama’s nomination of NH’s Republican Sen. Judd Gregg as Commerce Secretary will be confirmed by his fellow Senators, and presuming the Democratic Governor of NH keeps his backroom “deal” and appoints a Republican to fill Gregg’s vacated seat, then Democrats in the Senate ought to take advantage of some arcane filibuster math, and hold up the seating of that replacement until MN’s Senate seat is properly filled.
As things stand now, while former Republican Sen. Norm Coleman is taking his sweet time in throwing everything he can think of against the wall to see what might stick, in hopes of winning his MN election contest against presumptive Senator-elect Al Franken, the Dems need two cross-over Republican votes, for a total of 60, to stymie any attempted GOP filibuster. (That math presumes that independent Senators Sanders and Lieberman both vote with the 56 currently-seated Dems, as they do on most matters.)
However, the Senate rule requiring a supermajority (three-fifths of the Senate) to shut down attempted fillibusters with a cloture vote, is based on the number of “Senators duly chosen and sworn” — in other words, currently seated Senators.
With two seats vacant then, from MN and NH, after Gregg’s departure, that would put the number of “duly chosen and sworn” Senators needed to stop a filibuster at just 59 (or, 58.8, to be precise, but since we’re not allowed to count Lieberman as .8 of a human, the number needed for cloture would be 59)…
With Gregg gone and without his replacement yet seated, that would mean Democrats would only have to find to find one cross-over Republican vote to stop a filibuster, versus the two that they have to find currently with all but the MN seat filled. (With 99 Senators seated, a super-majority is 59.4, but since we’re not allowed to count the diminutive Linsdey Graham as .4, the number needed for cloture is still 60.)
As long as Coleman and the GOP plan to continue grandstanding in MN, and as long as NH’s Democratic Governor John Lynch is willing to make deals to appoint a Republican, the Democrats in the Senate ought to keep the appointed replacement Senator from NH on standby, until after the properly elected Franken (should the courts agree) is seated.
Remember, Article 1, Section 5 of the U.S. Constitution, allows that the Senate is the final arbiter of who may be seated in their own chamber, so they can take their sweet time doing it, if they choose.
Yes, the 1.3 million citizens of NH would unfortunately be temporarily robbed of full represenation in the Senate for the moment, but MN’s 5.2 million citizens are currently being disallowed their proper representation as well. To be clear, Coleman has every legal right to challenge the results of the U.S. Senate election in MN, but that doesn’t make grandstanding (and even doctoring evidence), as much of his case has been so far in MN, acceptable, or something that Democrats need to put up with.
Yeah, it’s hardball politics, but unless someone is aware of some Constitutional information that I’m not, its also both perfectly legal and Constitutional. And do you think the GOP would pause for a second to do the same thing if they were in a similar position? If you have any doubts about about that, just keep your eyes on what they’re doing in Minnesota.
And what does Obama say when the Senate Dems crap all over the deal he made with Judd Gregg?
Yeah, thats smart strategy. Deny NHer’s a voice in the Senate while trying to ram through a trillion dollar stimulus package. Change we can believe in. An end to partisanship. I really hope the NH guv tries to pull something like that. It would erode away any good will BHO has thus far established. It would guarantee NH would remain Repub for the near fututure. It would energize the conservative base and would disgust the public.
Who suggested this idea to you? Karl Rove.
Brilliant Brad. Way to be thinking strategically. Appreciated.
Oh yeah, tell me one more time…there aint 15 decent republicans left?????
I know, I know I’m being easy on em.
An oh yeah Brad, how do you think lie-berr-man will be voting?
And another thing, either our government gets off this STUPID 1-2 minute time rule for questioning…or I’m coming there to pull your hair out personally! 10 minutes each to try their bs in an oversight hearing. Stop the not enough time to find out the TRUTH dog and pony shows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Choosing a lame unelectable repub. for an important cabinet position at first seemed like a way to pack the senate Rahm style. Guess I was wrong. But anyway, how would the whole WH choosing of cabinet slots and important positions be any different if Hillary had managed to steal the election. Seems like a defacto clinton administration to me. Except for the divine Aretha and Rev. Lowry at the inaguration. They were the high points of the new regime. Closing Gitmo was good too.
We’ve seen the GOP corporate NOT liberal media do this before – float fake “suggestions” as news, on behalf of the GOP. Did Obama say this? Or is the media saying it?
Your very next story says what I just said, only from another angle. The LATimes didn’t get “punked”, they said that on purpose! There’s a difference. Do you really think they got “punked”? Or was that just to make Obama look bad on behalf of the GOP?
Hey try this math on assholes:
http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm
an somebody hand me a fillet knife.
Watching OHB win was horrible to me. Watching him implode is a joy.
If you are in the ‘War Resisisters League’ then you redefine what it is to be a doofus. Your group is populated by ineffectual kids and an assortment of society’s malcontents that support them. A group of failed stupid people trying to do something to make headlines is pathetic.
Reminder:
The post says the Dem Gov shouldnt appoint a replacement Sen (after he promised to appoint a Rep. replacement Sen.) So the Dems could appoint their crap legislation – $250mil to subsidize HOLLYWOOD MOGULS
Hey Jujubee- did you even read the post? Either you did and are too stupid to understand it or you are stupid enough to comment about it without reading it. PLEASE tell us where “the post says the Dem Gov shouldnt appoint a replacement Sen (after he promised to appoint a Rep. replacement Sen.).” The post is about the majority party holding up the seating of that replacement until MN’s Senate seat is properly filled. Thanks for letting us see, once again, what a real “doofus” is.
Of course, the only thing more ignominious than being ineffectual kids, losers, malcontents and failed stupid people trying to do something to make headlines is being a troll from a shill mill for minimum wage.
And, Steve, you can’t expect these poor shlubs to read the posts they’re assigned to smear with boogers. They don’t get paid enough. Most of them didn’t even graduate from high school. Times are tough. You gotta cut them some slack….
Plus, you know you’ve hit a nerve whenever they get assigned one of your posts. Can’t help but love that.
“the post says the Dem Gov shouldnt appoint a replacement Sen (after he promised to appoint a Rep. replacement Sen.).” The post is about the majority party holding up the seating of that replacement until MN’s Senate seat is properly filled.”
So the timing of the appointment of a NH Senator should be contingent upon a Minn. election? THAT is ethical? As I said earlier, “Deny NHer’s a voice in the Senate while trying to ram through a trillion dollar stimulus package.” And how do you disagree with that?
If that’s the case Amy Klobuchar should have two votes for as long as it takes for the Coleman puke to lollygag around.
Bye Bye Normie, I mean Wormie
Isnt Franken the one ahead on ‘retabulated votes?’ Coleman won on election night. Dems have a nice strategy. Lose on votes, cherry pick Democrat districts, go to Democrat canvassing judges/officials and plead their case. A cross out of Coleman means a Franken vote but a cross out of Franken doesnt mean a Coleman vote.
Liars, cheats, thieves. Nice to see that Franken will lose. Crap stimulus will lose. And the O looks like a pimple of a President.
Well I guess some people immediately think the worst when their pork (as in military waste “doofus”) gets threatened. I’m sure if all our weapons expenditures were brought into the light of day a large portion would be deemed unacceptable by the majority of Americans. But hey, what do I know, I’m just a fifty year old stupid kid who thinks our military spending should never again include wars for oil that our country was lied into again! Health care and green jobs or wars of agression…hmmm? Does that make it any clearer for you #12 who enjoys watching people implode? I rather think your the one with the problem.
jujubee [ed note: Check rules, please, SillyGit, dear. Thanks. –99]
Coleman is holding up the seating of the duly elected Senator by contested the highly fair and transparent recount (even your fascist party agrees it was fair and transparent) with a very embarrassing lawsuit which includes doctored evidence (which was thrown out), and witness testimony which not only does not support Coleman’s contentions, but proves that his contentions are hogwash. Coleman picked these witnesses.
You are defending the indefensible. Coleman’s case is untenable […].
Go back to the free fascist republic, you are out of your league here.
I hope you are happy with the doubling of the national debt under the term of der Furher George W. Bush the war criminal. We could fund the economic stimulus package using just what Halliburton stole from us over the past 6 years.
BTW, WE WON! GET OVER IT.
I look forward to Bush and Rumsfeld getting frogmarched into the Hague for their much deserved war crimes trial.
REMINDER TO THE RIGHT WING MAROONS:
It is unamerican, unpatriotic, and treasonous to criticize the president during times of war.
All (including “jujubee”) –
Personal insults against other commenters are not allowed here, and will be cause for removal of posts or banning. See the rules for posting here.
Please don’t for me to do that. Thanks!
“Jujubee” –
You are welcome to disagree with and/or personally insult me, and/or public figures if you wish. You are not welcome to personally attack other commenters, as I noted above.
But as to this:
…our rules, as linked above, also do not allow knowing disinformation. If you don’t know by now, the garbage you posted above is complete and utter unsubstantiated disinformation. If you didn’t know that before, you are welcome to go back and read any number of posts about the Franken/Coleman race here or elsewhere, so you can educate yourself.
Consider this a friendly warning. Knock it off, or you won’t be posting here long.
Your opinions, though I disagree with just about every one of them, are welcome here. But you must follow the very few rules we have for posting, otherwise, you will not be allowed to post your opinions here, whether I’d agree with them or not. Unsubstantiated nonsense, such as your post above, alleging the Democrats are trying to “steal” the election, when there is no such evidence to back up that claim (quite the opposite), will not be tolerated.
Thanks!
Brad,
“Your opinions, though I disagree with just about every one of them”. Wow was it some Jedi mind stuff you did? You know all of my opinions? Do I have a blog that I write that I dont know about
I hope you dont have too thin a skin to allow these kind of posts. If you need to ban me, so be it.
‘Liars cheats thieves’ Is it really out of the realm of civil discourse to ascribe those monikers to say… some of BHO’s cabinet appointees? I meant it towards Democrats in general but there was NOTHING personal about that.
I have read long and hard about the Franken Coleman contest. Powerline posts about the contest are far superior to yours. I know that the Democrats want to count the vote (until they have more) and never want to count them properly. I know that Democrats never accept a vote tally until they have won. I have seen it in Washington and in my home state. I will always hold the belief that trying to recount ballots in one district that overwhemingly supports one candidate while not giving the same treatment to a district/county which doesnt support your candidate is an attempt to steal an election. Democrats failed to do it in 2000 and will fail in Coleman’s re-election.
Jujubee –
Thought you were intellectually honest enough to understand I was speaking to your opinions posted here. Apparently I was wrong. My apologies.
Again, perhaps the benefit of the doubt I offered on intellectual honesty was inappropriate, but I think I was pretty clear that you are allowed to disagree with anybody, as well as personally attack either myself or other public figures. If you are too dim to understand that, and prefer to act as if I might ban you for posting opinions that disagree with mine, I’m also sorry to see that.
It was quite clear in your post (#19), that your disinformative post was referring to the Franken/Coleman race. If you’re really hoping to play the cry baby and see your posts removed eventually, please continue insulting my intelligence.
Fine. Which is why I didn’t remove your post without giving you a warning first. If you have any evidence to support your claim that the Dem “strategy” was to “cherry pick Democrat districts, etc.” please let me know, otherwise, such claims will now be considered as pure disinformation. HINT: Debunked, propagandastic posts without evidence from the discredited Powerline whackos doesn’t count as “evidence”.
Other than them having been debunked and discredited. Constantly. On this matter and hundreds of others. But other than that, yeah, they’re great!
Evidence please. Because my evidence (see, for example, Bush/Kerry OH NM etal ’04, Bush/Gore FL ’04, Busby/Bilbray CA ’06, Madrid/Wilson NM ’06, Curtis/Feeney FL ’06, Jennings/Buchanan FL ’06, etc.) shows quite the opposite, that Democrats (unfortunately) don’t want to count votes when they should. As it turns out, neither do Republicans (see all of those races listed above), so it works out great for both of them…if not the actual voters.
Where Republicans claimed “fraud” but never actually presented any evidence for fraud? Oh, yeah, I remember that election.
Um, and you claim you’ve “read long and hard about the Franken Coleman contest”?? You better get back to hitting the books, chief, because you would now be appearing to claim that Coleman is trying to “steal an election”.
Yeah, you have been reading Powerline. Good luck with that, boss. Just don’t post it here, unless you have actual evidence to back up your claim (may be tough if you’re relying on the disinfo experts at Powerline though.)
Am I the only one that wonders what type of “Blagojevich deal” was made between the Democratic Governor of New Hampshire and the GOP/Gregg to get this Democratic Governor to “seat” a Republican…? Isn’t that what Blagojevich was impeached for…?..the suspicion that he was going to try to “cut a deal” using Obama’s Senate seat…?
Lol – Chabuka that is a freakin’ excellent point!
Brad,
By any standard of mathematics, they are already there. As you say 3/5ths of 99 is 59.4. Rounding rules of math are quite clear; .5 and greater is rounded to the next highest whole number (if a whole number is what is required) and less than .5 is rounded down to the next whole number. If 60 votes is still now required for cloture they must be using some of that Washington math none of us out here in the real world understand.
Don’t forget: Kennedy is iffy too. He may not be able to make it in due to health reasons.
I’m actually a very mellow Minnesotan about letting the process play out. Each side has spent a bunch of millions and I expect no less than a bloody battle of the lawyers. It was reported the other day that there were some military absentee ballots that weren’t counted. They might favor Franken this election, but let’s deal with that and everything else Coleman can throw up, because, really, work out the math on what percentage 200 votes is out of 2.5 million. Not exactly a mandate for either of them so let’s make sure the process at least certifies a winner that Minnesotans can believe in.
Giving Franken a certificate now would be disastrous if Coleman won. What would Congress do? Nullify any legislation that passed by one vote? I can’t imagine any state judge or Minnesota politician wanting that mess pointing back to him, so I see Coleman getting every stall he can legally muster and that’s just the way the system works.
But as a strategy, sure, erect any available roadblocks to Gregg. If there is one thing the Republicans should have taught us it’s that playing dirty works.
Arlen Specter has served in the U.S. Government with distinction for decades. He was part of the Warren Commission, which investigated the assassination of John F Kennedy, and he’s served as Senator for his home state of Pennsylvania for five terms ““ thirty years. Most of those thirty years were spent as a moderate Republican, but he has apparently had it, and has gone across the aisle. He didn’t need a no fax cash advance to tempt him, he has been voicing his dissatisfaction with the Republican caucus for some time. President Obama has already given him a message of welcome. Now Democrats are closer to a filibuster proof senate.
[ed note: Sales link removed. Very creative way to flog your business, Amina, but please read our rules for commenting. Thank you. –99]