READER COMMENTS ON
"Exclusive: Group Receives 'Tsunami of Vile Hate' After ABC Exposé on U.S. Military 'Jesus Rifles'"
(39 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
Ernest A. Canning
said on 1/24/2010 @ 9:21 pm PT...
What is not clear from the linked article, Brad, is whether Trijicon, which has supplied the U.S.M.C. with 800,000 of these sites intends to supply the kits to remove these New Testament inscriptions at its own expense or ours.
Of course, the rest of this simply typifies the loony Christian fundamentalist movement.
One of the better responses to their insanity was a tee shirt I saw a guy wearing which read, "Tell me! Who would Jesus have bombed?"
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
said on 1/24/2010 @ 9:38 pm PT...
Ernie - I had originally the wrong link for the Trijicon announcement of removing the inscriptions. The correct PDF is now linked in the article. Doesn't seem to clarify who will be paying for the changes, however.
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
said on 1/24/2010 @ 10:22 pm PT...
So, why didn't they use Ex 20:13 on the scopes?
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
said on 1/24/2010 @ 10:26 pm PT...
I bet Matt 5:43:48 won't make it on those scopes.
43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
44 But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your heavenly Father, for he makes his sun rise on the bad and the good, and causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust.
46 For if you love those who love you, what recompense will you have? Do not the tax collectors do the same?
47 And if you greet your brothers only, what is unusual about that? Do not the pagans do the same?
48 So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Nor Matt 5:38-39
38 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.'
39 But I say to you, offer no resistance to one who is evil. When someone strikes you on (your) right cheek, turn the other one to him as well.
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
said on 1/24/2010 @ 10:27 pm PT...
Heh, if they had put those verses on their scopes they'd probablyD lose the contact.
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
said on 1/24/2010 @ 10:42 pm PT...
(Who would Jesus Kill)
I remember several years back watching a show on how these Christians support Israel but hate Jew's
Why? Because they need Israel for their rapture...
This is some crazy stuff man...
Israel was not the kingdom of God, but was in the kingdom of God. We are not grafted into them but into the kingdom of God that they already belonged to. When Jesus came those in Israel that did not receive him were cast out of the kingdom of God and God allowed the Gentiles to come in. We are very blessed indeed, but we did not replace Israel. Israel was suppose to be first in the Covenant but for the most part rejected Jesus. Because of this, God concluded them "all" in blindness so that he could save the Gentiles. This is what Jesus was talking about when he said that the first would be last and the last first.
[ed note: link fixed... —99]
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
said on 1/25/2010 @ 5:45 am PT...
What about those whacko Christian fanatic college football players with Bible quotes on tapes under their eyes? I find them totally obnoxious. Many of them are on scholarships at state schools and represent many ethnicities who actually pay for them to "study." As to quotes on rifles - doesn't anyone know that army basic training includes all kinds of KILL brainwashing? The air force is supposed to be the most intolerant Christian fanatics of all.
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
said on 1/25/2010 @ 6:51 am PT...
"So, why didn't they use Ex 20:13 on the scopes? "
Probably because people would then get mad at the Jews and Israel. Better to keep the spotlight on Israel's "useful idiot" Christian supporters. That way people will frame the issue as Christian VS Muslim, while Israel stays hidden in the background --- clever.
Haven't you heard? Christian soldiers are doing Israel's dirty work for them in the ME, thinking that it will bring God's blessing on America. Not all Christians follow this theology however.
Indeed, how many of these verses were from the NT I wonder? All of them?
And for what purpose? Evangelism? Or perhaps when this news inevitably hits the media outlets, then all eyes will turn angrily to those "stupid evangelical Christians"; even though the majority knew nothing about this idea, and had no say in implementing it. Furthermore, many like me thinks it's a stupid idea.
Since Liberal/Progressives pride themselves on fairness and open-mindedness, may I suggest you do likewise with this issue? Most evangelicals are pretty nice, regular folk and are increasingly seeing past the Republican spin.
But since the Brad Blog likes to zoom in on the fringe extremists (thanks to Frank S.), then readers will assume guilt by association.
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
said on 1/25/2010 @ 7:09 am PT...
Quote from Brad's article...
I continue in amazement that anyone of the Jewish persuasion (of which I am) in the U.S. would continue to delude themselves about the true heart of Republicanism, simply because of claims by the GOP in support of Israel. They may support Israel, my friends, but not for the reasons they've convinced you of. The folks behind the politicization of Christianity, and the use of Jesus Christ as a political bludgeon, hate Jews only slightly less than they hate A-rabs. That so many supporters of the GOP, due to their stand on Israel, still either fail to see it, or simply turn a blind eye, continues to amaze me.
The huge evangelical lobby in the GOP needs an Israel, Israel is central to their apocalyptic book of revelations.
What these evangelicals don't say is that they expect Jews to convert to Christianity or face the wrath of God...
So evangelicals need Israel to spark Armeggedon, which will bring Jesus down on a cloud to smite non-Christians...and if those Jews don't convert to Christianity then they'll burn like the rest of the trash that Jesus takes out.
And some Christians think Muslims are crazy.
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
said on 1/25/2010 @ 8:00 am PT...
I wonder if that Muslim email is bogus. Can any other soldiers serving in the ME confirm his experience? Since the MRFF exposed the scripture/rifle thing, I find this quote rather dubious:
This senior NCO was apparently also the head person of a conservative, crazy Christian group called the "Christian Military Fellowship" and made a big deal about the importance of joining to everyone.
Investigate Trijicon instead.
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
said on 1/25/2010 @ 8:10 am PT...
There are numerous verifiable testimonials about what is happening with the evangelical movement in the Air Force Academy - fully sanctioned and promoted by the Officer Corps. It's ugly. And unconstitutional. I'll let you look it up.
So based on that precedent there's no reason to suspect the same wouldn't happen in the other branches.
And Brad doesn't post shit that ain't. And that's a fact.
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
said on 1/25/2010 @ 8:17 am PT...
[Ed Note: Commercial spam deleted. - BF]
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
said on 1/25/2010 @ 8:21 am PT...
And Brad doesn't post shit that ain't.
Well, the last couple of Frank Schaeffer guest blogs excepted.
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
said on 1/25/2010 @ 8:33 am PT...
Brad didn't post that. Frank did. And Brad even put a disclaimer on it (happily for me, because Frank's writing is unpalatable.)
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
said on 1/25/2010 @ 8:44 am PT...
Hoo boy, this really took me back to the time I served (65-69). We were told to state our religious preference, and after I said "none" they used to make me sit in HQ whenever they were having their chaplain talks. They were vicious, mean, in their ostracization. And then the countless reps of "Kill or be killed!" and "There are two kinds of soldiers on the battlefield: the quick and the dead; I intend to be one of the quick." It was truly disgusting. The only good army is a demobilized army. Even General George Washington knew that. And even General Dwight Eisenhower believed peace to be superior to war in every way. I hear all this "Support the troops!" stuff from the parrotheads, but the sad truth is that I support only bringing them home and discharging them. I cannot support the racism and the butchery and the mindless, gleeful commission of the gravest of sins. Discharge them and give them jobs in the US if you want them supported. About the only useful thing the troops is doing si when they're policing up filter tips. And imprison the thugs who put the code on the sights for deliberately endangering our soldiers on the battlefield. (And don't allow the management of the company to buy a senator or a representative!)
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
said on 1/25/2010 @ 11:13 am PT...
I just have to say I find it both sad and slightly amusing that the emailer "Shane" accuses the MRFF of "zealotry" in attacking a "poor group of old veterans" without the slightest hint of irony. Yeah, those poor, poor defenseless Generals(sigh), victims of the evil liberal conspiracy to destroy America from within. Yeah. they're the victims alright.
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
said on 1/25/2010 @ 11:28 am PT...
O.M.G. As a gay man and as a liberal Christian I am horrified at this on so many levels it ain't funny! How can these Dominionists justify these Bible codes on those scopes when everyone else knows full well that it is contrary to the Christian messgae to do so? Personally, I think it;s utterly blasphemous and obnoxious to put John 8:12 and similar codes on these sights because Jesus taught we should bring peace, not war!
And yes, they do hate the Jews and the A-rabs. But only slightly less than they hate us gay men!
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
said on 1/25/2010 @ 11:39 am PT...
Jesus taught we should bring peace, not war!
Really? Read Matthew 10:34
I mean, if you really believe any of that stuff anyway.
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
said on 1/25/2010 @ 1:00 pm PT...
YOUTUBE.... BOHEMIAN GROVE
WORLD LEADERS AN PRESIDENTS WORSHIPING LUCIFER. CAUGHT ON FILM!
THIS IS A GOVERNMENT MEDIA PROPAGANDA PSY-OP TO MAKE CHRISTIANS LOOK LIKE KOOKS.
YET NOBODY SAYS ANYTHING ABOUT THEIR BOSSES WORSHIPING LUCIFER!
PEOPLE ARE GULLIBLE!
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
said on 1/25/2010 @ 1:51 pm PT...
Imagine the confusion in the far off future when they dig up a rifle w/a religious message on it. What has happened to common sense?
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
said on 1/25/2010 @ 2:00 pm PT...
As the Director of Veterans Affairs for the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (I am a volunteer - I receive NO pay) I have received and read countless e-mails from Fundamentalist Dominionist Christian bigots who spew vitriol and hatred out of one side of their mouths and accuse the MRFF and its activists of discriminating against Christians out of the other. Of course they are just projecting. Approximately 97% of the MRFF’s clients are Christians – Christians who are suffering discrimination at the hands of other Christians who consider them “not Christian enough.” As a result of this discrimination by Christians against Christians within the military and Dept. of Veterans Affairs I have represented far more Christians than all others combined. As an example, recently I represented two Catholic veterans of multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan who had been denied access to PTSD therapy groups at a V.A. facility because they weren't considered to be "born again". Those overseeing and conducting the therapy groups were only willing to include “born again” Christians in their groups. Tell me: is that acceptable to you?
In point of fact the Military Religious Freedom Foundation doesn't discriminate against anyone; we represent individuals of all faiths (as well as those who espouse no faith) who have and are experiencing discrimination as a result of their own faith (or non-faith). If one were privy to the day to day efforts of the foundation one would realize that we wouldn't miss a beat in rising to the defense of even a Fundamentalist Dominionist Christian if he/she were suffering discrimination based on his/her faith at the hands of a superior officer, NCO or V.A. health care provider. Our objective is to uphold the Constitution of the United States and put a stop to agents of the State using their positions of power to impose their religious beliefs on others. Unfortunately it is the Fundamentalist Dominionist Christian hoards who not only seek to overthrow the U.S. Constitution and impose a theocracy based on their narrow religious beliefs, but are unwilling to wait for that to happen. They are hard at work right now promoting their own within the Department of Defense and Department of Veterans Affairs and are the overwhelming scourge that discriminates against those who don't share their beliefs. Not a day goes by when The Foundation doesn't hear from an assortment of servicemen/women and veterans who are suffering as a result of religious discrimination at the hands of Fundamentalist Dominionist Christians in positions of power.
One must realize that these Fundamentalist, Dominionist Christian radicals will not back down. They will not stop seeking to impose their beliefs on others. They will not apologize and they will not moderate themselves – they consider moderation to be the religious equivalent of treason. And, in fact, they are famous for flooding the media with complaints that “the Christian faith is under attack in America” every time an individual or group stands up to their efforts to impose their beliefs on others. It’s time for the American public to wake up and see that it is the rest of us who are being attacked by these crusaders. Every time you see or hear the right wing, Fundamentalist Dominionist Christians screaming bloody murder, claiming that Christianity is once again under attack in America, look more closely, you will see that they are the ones attacking the rest of us and somebody or some group has just had the courage to stand up to them. They want to frighten us into sitting down and shutting up. We need to be courageous and refuse to sit down and shut up…and then maybe others will draw courage from us and join us in our efforts to rebuild and fortify the wall of separation between Church and State in America. The future of our Republic depends on it. These bigots want a theocracy. I don’t know about you, but I won’t settle for anything less than democracy!
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
said on 1/25/2010 @ 2:16 pm PT...
The tactics for the "hordes", then, is definitely in the same vein as the tactics of the Republican Party since '94 when Newt took over as SotH. It's a pre-emptive accusation of (enter nefarious deeds/opinions/attitudes here) when in reality they themselves are the offenders, being and doing that of which they accuse.
Without a real national media, these tactics tend to succeed.
Thanks for your work Akiva David. I am personally intolerant of religion (militant atheist in da house) - however, I didn't take an oath to uphold the Constitution, and I certainly do not believe that any government agencies should have a hand in promoting or denigrating any religion (or atheism, for that matter.)
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
said on 1/25/2010 @ 2:44 pm PT...
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
said on 1/25/2010 @ 3:43 pm PT...
Yeah, we all make choices. Some choose to rant about Bible codes stamped on rifles, others completely ignore the vast number of completely innocent civilians that have been straight up murdered by the very same troops using these weapons.
COMMENT #25 [Permalink]
said on 1/25/2010 @ 5:02 pm PT...
But agent 99 is a moron and brad has the intellectual abilities of a pithed frog.
[ed note: Anyway I'm not a pithed moron! Thank you. —99]
COMMENT #26 [Permalink]
said on 1/25/2010 @ 5:26 pm PT...
These christian extremists are as dangerous, if not more so, than the muslim extremists because our military leadership seem to encourage christian extremism--in fact, they apparently demand it from their troops (so unconstitutional).
But these militant christians should beware. In the Book of Revelations there is scripture that says that Jesus will first judge christians (the separation of the goats from the sheep). And, as the story goes, those christians that end up on the goat side of the fence will be cast into the firey pit along with all nonchristians. They will be stunned, shocked (they will literally be caught by surprise because they had no doubt whatsoever that they were heaven bound) and exclaim (paraphrase) but lord, we did all these things in your name for your glory. And he will look at them and say depart from me into the pit of fire you sons of iniquity for I know you not. It also says that there will be much crying, wailing and gnashing of teeth as a result.
So you would think that if these extremist christians really believed what they're attempting to force onto the rest of us, they would take into account the warnings that are written in their own NT bible; that they would be more concerned about minding their own christian p's and q's than worrying about other peoples' religious preferences. (Just my 2-cents worth.)
COMMENT #27 [Permalink]
said on 1/25/2010 @ 8:06 pm PT...
OT but bad, bad news (better sit down 99) Obama just pulled a Herbert Hoover and declared a discretionary spending freeze... with the immense military and surveillance budgets being the better part of discretion, of course.
Want to learn exactly what the worst parts of the first Great Depression was like?... 'cause we're going to do it again.
This cannot be a "mistake" or an "accident."
He knows this will send the economy deeper into a pit deeper than the one we're currently trying to climb out of.
And while the immense momentum of the U.S. economy combined with a half-assed watered down stimulus averted the worst of what we are in now... we don't have that momentum any longer and there will be no more stimulus attempts. (at least until Obama is thrown out of office)
It should be shriekingly obvious to all vertebrates by now that Obama intends to use this to break the last remaining fragments of the New Deal and dismantle the social safety nets.
It will be corporations uber alles come hell or high water.
COMMENT #28 [Permalink]
said on 1/25/2010 @ 8:47 pm PT...
Oh, shit, zap! Thanks for the hedzup....
Tsunami of Vile Hate billowing out my ears already.
Have to go to be with my dying father in a few days... so I hope the apocalypse will at least wait until I get to see him....
COMMENT #29 [Permalink]
said on 1/25/2010 @ 8:52 pm PT...
COMMENT #30 [Permalink]
said on 1/25/2010 @ 9:26 pm PT...
Stay calm and be safe, 99. The fallout from this won't hit for some months.
But people really do need to be aware of what's involved when it does hit.
Unlike the half-assed watered down stimulus, which did some good, at first this will only hurt the non-elite and the non-corporate... especially with so many states already facing major budget shortfalls because of the current pit we're in.
Obama promised to leave his mortal enemies SS and Medicare alone with this freeze (after all, he won't get around to the planned de facto dismantling of those until Conrad's "Cat Food Commission" is done gutting them) but the Federal cuts will have an extremely disproportionate impact on already-sandbagged State systems that deal with such issues.
Which means that economically stressed families will face even more foreclosures than before (and "before" was shaping up as another nightmare to begin with) and all the associated collateral damage.
And with the Fed and the Treasury hard-pressed just to prop up the housing bubble they barely managed to get reinflated with all those trillions... this is a surefire recipe for yet another epic disaster.
COMMENT #31 [Permalink]
said on 1/25/2010 @ 9:44 pm PT...
Well, they're already hitting entitlements as being the problem:
It is the growth in the so-called entitlement programs — Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security — that is the major factor behind projections of unsustainably high deficits, due to rapidly rising health costs and an aging population.
Can't have Thing One to do with all these discretionary WARS and BAILOUTS... only some—what?—thirty trillion bucks so far between them.... Never those. Never those.
COMMENT #32 [Permalink]
said on 1/26/2010 @ 5:45 am PT...
Well this stark raving lunatic Christian Dominionist thing has been going on totally out in the open since about 1980.
They don't even pretend to hide it, in fact they are right up front about their insane desire to take over the country, then the planet and help bring on their fictional Armageddon.
These lunatics have control over the US government from within, the Congress is wrapped up with these nut bags, the military is filthy with them especially where it counts in the top brass.
What makes this bad, really bad is the fact that about 35%+ of the entire country and GROWING are just as crazy.
So at best we have maybe 60% of the country that might be able to do something about it.
BUT then we have the mainstream media that isn't going to say much of anything, they may run a story once in awhile that tells about just some of the corruption and unconstitutional insanity going on, but wont ever really tell it like it is because they would have to break that taboo of confronting Religion for what it really is; A dangerous mind plague that utterly destroys the thinking and reasoning mind .
These Lunatic Christians are FAR more dangerous than the lunatic Muslims because they have total control of by far the strongest military in the world. We are talking about a large majority of the military not just a few top brass but probably 80% if not more of the US military are a bunch of Reich wing extremest nut bags with guns.
Then we have Black Water which is probably even worse because they have no restraints, no laws, nuttin, and they are run by an admitted Fundamentalist Christian nut bag whose sole purpose is to murder Muslims.
Now tell me just exactly what are that 60% or so of the American population, most of which don't even know what is going on going to do about it?
We are going to do exactly what we did when faced with an UN-elected pResident and administration that attacked this country in a false flag attack, stole 2 elections, destroyed the bill of rights, and wiped their ass with the Constitution.
About 2% of us did something, we got mad, we protested and then the mainstream media covered it all up all nice and tidy like, and they got away with it scott free.
My suggestion is to just let these freaks have it, all us Atheist and Free Thinkers need to move to Canada or France and live someplace that isn't over run by Delusional Psychotics.
We can have good health care and live in a country of mostly normal thinking reasoning human beings.
Life is too short and I am getting too old to deal with lunatics with a death wish that are unreachable.
Ever tried to explain to a Young Earth Creationist that the Earth is NOT less than 10,000 years old?
That is about the same chance we have of stopping these cretins, they are insane, rabid, unreachable, and have spent 30+ years taking totalitarian control of the Government, Military and Media.
COMMENT #33 [Permalink]
said on 1/26/2010 @ 6:25 am PT...
I was watching CNN in a doctors office, and they had an "expert" on the new fake Bin Laden video. He said, "Yep, that's Bin Laden, I could tell by the voice." Well, that's proof that it's legit, according to what our media has become. Then they go on about the dead Bin Laden saying he condones the underwear bomber. Other countries must be laughing at us.
COMMENT #34 [Permalink]
said on 1/26/2010 @ 6:26 am PT...
Oh, btw, CNN didn't play the Bin Laden tape. How about that? They didn't play it so we couldn't see how ridiculous it is. How can they have a news clip with an "expert" about the new fake Bin Laden tape and not play the tape? How stupid do they think we are?
COMMENT #35 [Permalink]
said on 1/26/2010 @ 6:29 am PT...
BTW...if you'll notice, Bin Laden doesn't age on TV. They had a "scary" picture of him in back of the "expert" on CNN, and Bin Laden didn't have a gray hair on his head and looked perfectly healthy, in his scary Arab turban and sheet. At what point will Bin Laden become 100 years old and they'll still have pictures of him with no gray hairs and say he just sent a message? What if 150 years from now they're still doing it?
Year 3000: new message from Bin Laden on CNN.
COMMENT #36 [Permalink]
said on 1/26/2010 @ 7:06 am PT...
Hey NYB - Europe is a mighty nice place to live!
COMMENT #37 [Permalink]
said on 1/26/2010 @ 8:02 am PT...
Thinking about it seriously.
Vancouver is looking really good to me lately also.
COMMENT #38 [Permalink]
said on 1/26/2010 @ 2:34 pm PT...
Oh... they omitted a few details in that 'leak' about the freeze. Turns out that it's not an actual freeze.
"Then why did they call it a freeze?" you may ask as you attempt to help scrape Krugman off the ceiling of his office this morning.
Apparently they did it for two reasons: to make the right wing happy and to make sane people freak out.
However, in that multidementional chess fashion we've come to know and love, the freezes and concomitant cuts due to inflation will set the stage nicely for the Cat Food Commission et al...
This particular disaster seems to have been postponed... but only for a while...
COMMENT #39 [Permalink]
said on 1/27/2010 @ 12:10 am PT...
I don't think they should stop printing these verses. I just want to suggest a few they should put on them
First one: "Thou shalt not kill"
Second: "Turn the other cheek".
Third: "He who lives by the sword dies by the sword"
I am sure there are plenty more, but you get my point.