READER COMMENTS ON
"Will the Right Turn (More) Violent?"
(22 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
Mark E. Smith
said on 3/25/2010 @ 5:41 pm PT...
Don't count on the Democrats doing better in November, Frank. While the Republicans are trying to make the bill seem worse than it is, the Democrats have been trying to make it seem better than it is.
I remember going to one of Obama's "town meetings" on health care. The room was packed with health care professionals and ordinary citizens, and we were all, every single one of us, outraged that Obama had taken single payer off the table and wouldn't allow it to be mentioned. We wanted health care, not slight improvements in health insurance that won't kick in until Congress, the Supreme Court, and a new administration have time to gut them.
Don't count on the millions of first-time voters registered by ACORN turning out--not after they watched the Democrats they'd elected vote for an unconstitutional bill of attainder against ACORN.
Don't count on the anti-war and anti-bailout crowd turning out--not after Obama has expanded the wars of aggression and given more to the crooked banksters than Bush had dared dream of.
And don't count on anyone who isn't paid (see the Kentucky elections officials' corruption story on today's BradBlog) turning out--people are really tired of their votes not being counted, vanishing inside central tabulators, the corporate media announcing winners before the results are in, and Congress swearing in officials before all the votes are counted.
If the Democrats didn't always pull a bait-and-switch, letting popular candidates draw in the voters but then nominating unpopular candidates who can raise more corporate money, if the Supreme Court hadn't decided to allow unlimited corporate money in politics, and if the Democrats weren't too busy pandering or caving to the Republicans to care about what voters want, there would have been a good chance for a second Obama term.
He may get it anyway, but if so, the corporations will have to manufacture the votes. He has betrayed every promise he ever made. Sure, the political party operatives and aspiring candidates on both sides will vote, but they're a very small percentage of the electorate.
How long do you really think that people will keep voting in faith-based, unverifiable elections, for candidates they cannot hold accountable?
You've been wrong before, Frank, and it was, as I understand you, a question of belief. A lot of people lost faith in the Republicans and switched to the Democrats. A lot of Democrats lost faith in their party and switched to third parties. But as long as we have a Constitutional oligarchy instead of a democracy, sooner or later people are going to realize that a symbolic vote is no substitute for a real democracy and a real voice in government.
The violence on the right is usually perpetrated with impunity because it is condoned, if not actually ordered, by the highest levels of government, which is not the elected or appointed officials but the corporations that own them. But even the most peaceful demonstrations by the left bring out the full strength of law enforcement because they are opposed to the corporate status quo, opposed to the torture and wars of aggression, opposed to environmental degradation, opposed to globalization, and opposed to multi-trillion-dollar crony bailouts.
What you think of as government is just a bureaucracy that our real rulers set up to shield themselves from our wrath.
There will be a huge turnout here in California because marijuana legalization will be on the ballot. Some other states may get large turnouts by putting other self-centered hot-button issues on the ballot. But hardly anyone at all would vote if there were only Democrats and Republicans on the ballot. According to recent polls by Rasmussen Reports, only 21% of American voters say that the US government has the consent of the governed, and nearly half of all voters believe that people randomly selected from the phone book could do as good a job as the current Congress.
In George Washington's day, marijuana was cheap and legal, so they bribed people to go to the polls with whiskey. Now that booze is cheap and legal and pot is not, they're using marijuana to get out the vote. Nothing at all has changed. If you want to get poor people to vote for rich people who will not represent them and cannot be held accountable during their terms of office, you have to bribe them or threaten them. Not even Americans vote against their own interests because they want to.
When you vote for the lesser of two evils, you've made a deal with the devil just as if you had voted for the greater evil. Faced with two evil choices, people of conscience don't run out to vote for one of them because they like evil. And when you don't have any choice but evil, you are not a free person and it isn't a free election.
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
said on 3/25/2010 @ 6:06 pm PT...
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
said on 3/25/2010 @ 7:46 pm PT...
Since their inception the Teaparty crowd (not a movement since they do have the numbers or clout) have been “haters not debaters”. In my opinion this is what the small portions of the republican party of “birthers, baggers and blowhards” have brought you. They are good at “Follow the Leader” of their dullard leaders, they listen to Beck, Hedgecock, Hannity, O’Reilly, Rush and Savage and the rest of the Blowhards. Are you surprise at what they do when you know what they think? The world is complicated and most republicans (Hamiliton, Lincoln, Roosevelt) believe that we should use government a little to increase social mobility, now its about dancing around the claim of government is the problem. The sainted Reagan passed the biggest tax increase in American history and as a result federal employment increased, but facts are lost when mired in mysticism and superstition. Although some republicans are trying to distant themselves from this fringe most of them are just going along and fanning the flames.
As for the window. This was staged by one of Cantor’s gun buddy, good try at being a victim but I don’t buy it, next.
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
cult of skaro 23
said on 3/25/2010 @ 9:53 pm PT...
Mark E. Smith:
i am inclined to believe you. Obama has done everything in his power to alienate the left. I would have been happy with a vigorous expansion cum reform of medicaid. I could not bring myself to vote for Obama, and ultimately cast my vote for Nader out of disgust with his warmongering
(I would have gone for Brian Moore but he lacked ballot access in my state). Hopefully if any good comes of this it will be that both grassroots will have vigorous third party challengers.
At the risk of sounding like a hypocrite. And as much as I hate to argue formalities, I must disagree with the premise of this link you have posted. These sound like trivial issues but
1) there were actual plots against Obama. White supremacists actually were going to kill him at one point.
2) No one has showed up with a gun at an anti-bush rally
3) Dave Neiwart showed that the violence is still worse on the right (again hate to be arguing lesser-evilism)
4) These people hate Barack Obama not for what he has done (continue what 90% of bush admin policies), but because of paranoid fears that he will attempt to implement some type of socialism that exists only in the minds of Bircherites.
5)The right has ACTUAL elected officials, and pundits sympathizing with the extremists, and rationalizing their behavior. Michelle Bachmann, Scott Brown (a supposed moderate), and Glenn Beck of course. Can you imagine if Obama had even a few kind words for Bill Ayers, the shitstorm!!??
6) The left never had anything approaching the Tea Parties, Militias, and Oath Keepers....since the late sixties early seventies...although truthfully I'm rapidly becoming ambivalent about such a thing
I don't want to excuse threats of death against Bush or Obama, both are not acceptable (even worse, most of these protesters probably oppose the Death Penalty, completely missing the damn point), but I think to glibly compare the two of them, and say, "oh both sides have their lunatics", well, it's a little like comparing the lies the neocons collectively told, with say...some of the crazy stuff the Revolutionary communist party put out.
It's sort of this fallacy of balance that infects our society.
But thank you for the link though. It was very informative and eye-opening.
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
cult of skaro 23
said on 3/25/2010 @ 9:55 pm PT...
Oh....and that last part was not sarcasm. can't really do inflection or intonation online :/
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
said on 3/25/2010 @ 10:01 pm PT...
I agree, they got in bed with hate. They didn't even SAY the words "health care" from 2000 to 2008, let alone get the issue out in front of everyone for an entire year. That's going forward, not staying the same or going backwards. Yeah, it's not what I wanted, I want single payer. But I think this is the beginning of getting single payer. Doing nothing was not the beginning of getting single payer or affordable universal coverage.
Remember that guy threw a shoe at Bush? I think he was an Iraqi. How come no one brings that up? Why aren't the Republicans bringing that up?
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
said on 3/25/2010 @ 10:34 pm PT...
#1 and #3
What a couple of fantastic posts.
Just chiming my agreement.
Isn't it odd that in much of Western Europe, manacled socialists that they are, routinely are in the streets demanding for the replacement of this useless, corrupt bugger or that, and in some cases governments? I mean, Italy - what have they had, 43 governments since the end of the war? It's not necessarily the most effective way to manage a nation, but it sure as shit ain't worse than the horse traders we end up with all the time! And often, the power of the people is the power to make real change happen. I don't know if the Western Europeans are on a grand scale any more or less enslaved than we, but they certainly seem to have more political freedom in terms of representation and access, and tend to be happier with their education system, healthcare systems (and not all are single-payer, but they are all heavily regulated) - regardless of what our corporate healthcare owned media tells us, have a higher standard of living, live longer and are healthier as a physical body, have less violent crime, have stronger economies, the list goes on.
Odd, yes. You'd think all of that would be more apt to happen here, what with us being the bestest country in the history of the world, and being that our God will kick their God's ass (two hits buddy!)
Yet we eat dreck daily, and cling tighter to the dwindling sack of things to be thankful for in America.
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
said on 3/25/2010 @ 10:40 pm PT...
If the Democrats keep their majority in November, it'll be through fear of allowing the teabaggers more of a voice in our government, not as a result of any meritorious acheivement.
The Democrats will win by forcing us to eat less of a pile of turds than the Republicans would (at least that is their claim). And we will thank them for it.
No way to run a country.
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
said on 3/26/2010 @ 12:42 am PT...
Both Dems and Reps should be thrown out of office, for lack of ability to think beyond an election cycle, for promising more than they were going to enact (dems) or enacting much more than they promised (reps). Even if the country has not shifted right, the political elites (as well as the media insiders) have shifted right. No one in Washington seems to want a revival of the left, so throw them all out (politicians and the media).
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
Mark E. Smith
said on 3/26/2010 @ 2:24 am PT...
Here's an article lambasting the media by the "Father of Reagonomics":
Truth Has Fallen and Has Taken Liberty With It
That makes two such articles I've seen in two days. Are some of those responsible for destroying our economy just waking up to the fact that we no longer have one? The fault wasn't solely with the Republicans, of course, and with regard to Haiti, Bill Clinton has remarked that his free trade policies were wrong and destroyed the Haitian economy by allowing us to dump rice there and force small farmers off their land.
Some of the violence on the right might just be due to the fact that many fascists are incapable of ever admitting that they're wrong. But it was both the far right (Republicans) and center right (Democrats) who were wrong. Both political parties serve our oligarchy and neither one wishes to cede power to a democratic form of government. If only the third parties were opposing our Constitutional oligarchy rather than seeking power within it, there might be some small hope for change.
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
said on 3/26/2010 @ 8:16 am PT...
Asimov said it best in Foundation:
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
said on 3/26/2010 @ 9:12 am PT...
Our friend Patterico is already trying to downplay it by bringing up someone harrassing palin and Eric Cantor's lie about being targeted.
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
said on 3/26/2010 @ 11:09 am PT...
Thanks for the link, good article but this guy is a climate change denier which reduces his credibility in my eyes. There has not been an alternative theory that explains the observations made of our changing climate and there are mountains of evidence supporting the leading theory.
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
said on 3/26/2010 @ 11:57 am PT...
Are Republicans just blatantly pissing on us now? wtf? Do they do ANYTHING for us?
Once again, a stubborn Senate Republican is blocking speedy passage of a stopgap bill to extend jobless benefits, saying its $9 billion cost should not be added to the national debt.
This time it's Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla.
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
said on 3/26/2010 @ 12:27 pm PT...
Not to mention the hold they're placing on extending military benefits. They have no shame
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
said on 3/26/2010 @ 2:51 pm PT...
I am not in 100% agreement with Paul Craig Roberts, but he comes closer to telling the truth (including re 9/11) then most of my fellow lefties. I was put off by his mention of climate change as well, but I think his objections are with Cap and Trade. As the following link points out "the devil is in the details": http://www.storyofstuff.com/capandtrade/
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
said on 3/26/2010 @ 7:07 pm PT...
This bill isn't the greatest, I'll admit. But we sure as hell arent going to get single payer universal coverage, or any kind of decent health care from the Republicants. So what choice do you have in November? Got to back Obamas play. He seems to be catching on to how totaly insane the GOPers have become with the mixing of religion and politics.
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
said on 3/26/2010 @ 10:31 pm PT...
Ever play chess? At the advanced levels, it's a matter of a series of moves that eventually puts you in a NO-WIN position where you have to make a choice, and neither choice is any good.
Modern American politics is that way. The Corporate Party (99.9% of the Rethuglicans and 95% of the Democrats) make moves and positional plays that eventually put American voters in a position where they have to make a choice they don't like.
And there is "Health Care Reform" that we are asked to support, because if we don't, then THE REPUBLICANS WILL WIN, and they are "evil," so we must support the turd that is HCR. But what we are supporting is also evil, with its mandates and no public option or single payer or limits on premiums or fast-enacting controls.
We've been played.
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
said on 3/26/2010 @ 11:11 pm PT...
The people that I know that identify with Republicans certainly won't be backing any of this. They're conservative, not nuts. It's a fringe movement that will soon end badly because they always do.
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
said on 3/27/2010 @ 9:47 am PT...
I do not know when the republican party turned into a mob of hysterical teabaggers, but, it is sad to watch.
Their lawmakers, who should be the adults, are just as reckless and irresponsible as the mob of teabaggers.
They have egged on the behavior. For all their talk of personal responsibility, they never take their own. They blame others and refuse to own up to things.
Or do anything to turn it around.
I think back to my childhood and remember when republicans did right by the people. They took the lead in the Watergate investigation. They knew it was important for the good of the country.
They were responsible adults back then. And while I have always been a democrat, I would not feel such disgust for them as I do today, simply because of this behavior.
If something violent happens, the republicans will not change. They will blame others and they will be in denial of their own actions.
They are like drug addicts who cannot accept their addiction.
I do not know what will become of the party but, it is either going to cease or it will spin off into some other parties if they do not get a grip soon.
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
said on 3/27/2010 @ 11:31 pm PT...
How's that 'Hooked on Phonics' thing working out for you right-wingers?
oh and btw - SHUT UP YOU REGRESSIVES, We are moving FORWARD into the 21st Century, not the 19th!
New Rule: You Can't Use "There Will Be No Cooperation for the Rest of the Year" as a Threat If There Was No Cooperation in the First Half of the Year
Bill Maher - Host of HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher"
Posted: March 26, 2010 05:36 PM
Watch the video here
Obama announces 15 recess appointments, scolds GOP
By BEN FELLER, Associated Press Writer
(03-27) 22:29 PDT WASHINGTON (AP) --- Fed up with waiting, President Barack Obama announced Saturday he would bypass a vacationing Senate and name 15 people to key administration jobs, wielding for the first time the...
Read Full Story
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cg...114D77.DTL#ixzz0jRlUDWr1
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
said on 3/28/2010 @ 5:01 pm PT...
The Republicans need to get right with God! First the Republicans wanted to give Obama his Waterloo defeat over healthcare but instead they gave themselves their own Waterloo defeat by not participating in the debate of ideas and by becoming the party of obstructionist. Waterloo defeat refers of course to the defeat at Waterloo put an end to Napoleon's rule as Emperor of the French and was the culminating battle of the Waterloo Campaign and Napoleon's last. Republicans get right with God or get ready for future losses and Rush Limbaugh I real hope you enjoy your new home Costa Rica!
Answer to your question is yes, its in their nature, just like it was for republican Senator Larry Craig (ID) and republican Senator Roy Ashburn (CA) to act out their nature.