READER COMMENTS ON
"'Bake Sales v. Billionaires: WI is an Existential Fight for Survival of the Democratic Party'"
(18 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
said on 2/18/2011 @ 12:45 pm PT...
This is far more about people versus billionaires, not about the survival of the reactionary Democrat Party as Obama's "austerity" plan is a similar Class War attack. The reality is both parties are corrupt, drowning in blood and deserve to die--truth Maddow is apparantly incapable of saying.
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
Ernest A. Canning
said on 2/18/2011 @ 5:28 pm PT...
Karlof1, I think it vital that you distinguish the rank and file of the Democratic Party, which is the Party to which a majority of working class Americans, including those depicted in this video, are affiliated with the Democratic Party.
The attacks on unions, ACORN, etc., are attacks on the democratic aspirations of ordinary citizens.
Thus, while you are entirely correct to say that Obama and the Democratic Leadership have long abandoned the democratic aspirations of the working class, there can be no doubt that this Republican attack is intended, like Citizens United, are part of a designed effort to secure permanent plutocratic control.
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
Ernest A. Canning
said on 2/18/2011 @ 6:26 pm PT...
See Uprising in Wisconsin: Tens of Thousands Protest Anti-Union Bill, as Wisconsin Lawmakers Leave State to Stall Vote.
As revealed by John Nichols, the WI Republicans "passed a whole host of tax cuts for multinational...corporations," then claimed the sate was broke.
They not only targeted the right of collective bargaining for state employees but for city and county employees, teachers.
The plus side, if Nichols observations are accurate, is that this draconian, plutocratic assault may well prove to be the impetus to "people power" such as we've witnessed these past weeks in Tunisia and Egypt.
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
said on 2/18/2011 @ 7:13 pm PT...
Attempting to kill the unions, the insane anti-abortion and assualt on womens health (planned parenthood) in the House, and the possibility of shutting down the government over the budget may all amount to the GOP over playing it's hand. All this at once may send the just the kind of message the public needs to wake up and take to streets. The middle class is under attack and maybe this will wake them up to the fact. Can you imagine what will happen if all those old white folks that voted GOP don't get their SS checks in March?
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
said on 2/18/2011 @ 9:04 pm PT...
Okay, watched the Maddow, read the 4 comments above, and am still concerned about what is "actually" going on here, and here's why.
Yes, this is collossally big, as Maddow and another commenter describes. And with all the "super political players" involved here, kinda like when 9/11 encapsulated everyone when it happened too, so too are the "key players" engaged in this one issue. As Maddow shows, in '08 Campaign Contribs, #2-AFSCME & #5-Chamber, and in '10 Camp. Contr, #1-Chamber & #6-AFSCME.
And like 9/11, all kinds of things were happening under our very noses, while the citizens were carefully diverted from concern in any of them. See, I happen to think that the "Chamber Plot" recently uncovered, involving H&W, a super WDC PR/law firm, DOJ, ex-CIAs & DODs, is a BIG F**KING DEAL, just like The Great Recession is, with countless fraud/corruptions BY NAME uncovered, and no perp walks to date.
So sum it up--is this another false flag? (Note: Obama is "talking unions" while wining & dining CofC, BofA, Citi, JP, GS.)
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
said on 2/18/2011 @ 10:06 pm PT...
The Wisconsin people's rebellion (likely the beginning of one of the great events in American history) is entirely genuine and indigenous, and not at all a "false flag" operation. This (and not the election of President Obama) may be the real turning point away from the great right wing conservative counterrevolution that has progressively intensified and progressively decimated the United States since the time of the Vietnam War.
Why are the Democratic leaders, who I fully agree are in their essence corporate, paying at least lip service to the Wisconsin demonstrators? Because the demonstrators have at long last called their double game. The Democratic leaders have claimed to be on the side of the people while really serving as corporate shills, part of a "good cop, bad cop" routine with the Republicans. Governor Walker's onslaught on public sector unions differs only in degree, not in kind, from similar legslation that Democratic state officials in other states, for example in Illinois, have initiated.
But in Wisconsin today, the people have finally decided they have had enough, and are now in full revolt against their escalating oppression. As a result, the Democratic leaders have nowhere to turn. They MUST support the demonstrators or be revealed as total frauds.
Despite the wide media coverage the Wisconsin protests have received, they are in fact being drastically underplayed by the media. The New York Times gives far higher billing to Bahrain than to Wisconsin. President Obama and the other national Democratic leaders knew from the outset how huge a story the Wisconsin uprising is. Much of the public outside Madison, Wisconsin is not yet fully aware, but will soon become informed. The Democratic leaders have not suddenly become friends of labor and the people--they are playing pure defense. This is a great thing. The people are finally taking control of the Democratic party.
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
Ernest A. Canning
said on 2/19/2011 @ 9:17 am PT...
Interesting that Los Angeles Times would devote several articles to this, including Labor union stronghold rethinking its position and never once mentioned that WI Republicans passed massive tax breaks for multinational corporations before they targeted the collective bargaining rights of public employees.
Los Angeles Times also posted Wisconsin officials look to state police to help end battle over controversial labor vote in which a Republican lawmaker is quoting as saying that it was "outrageous" how Dems shut down the government by fleeing--calling to mind the similar maneuvers by Tom Delay and his Texas reapportionment scheme.
Of course, we can all recall how matters ended for that guy--Tom Delay Sentenced to 3 Years in Prison for RNC Corporate Money Laundering Conspiracy.
Here, the Republican legislators are demanding that state police round up the Dems so that the Republicans can put an end to the right of the state police to engage in collective bargaining.
Now, what would really set the revolution in motion would be for the state police to join the ranks of the pro-union demonstration, telling the governor and Republican legislators just where they can stick their round-up demand.
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
James Hillis Ford
said on 2/19/2011 @ 3:14 pm PT...
My heart and soul are returning to triumph over tragedy. The mere fact that the rally for truth and the rally for people and NOT self...and the rally for...fair, equal, civil, human rights...is happening...the light has been turned on...and as always...darkness seizes to exist.
The first order of the Grand Ole Party upon overtaking office...cut off the health care...cut off human funding...return the cash to me...and my friends...power...greed. Not one order on their pathetic agenda had to do with people, humans...hope. Kill was the call...and they have the bloody taste of the destruction and murder caused by their lies of "death panels" "2nd amendment remedies" "they're gonna steal your guns" "muslim forces building a temple of evil at ground zero"....Wisconsin, I join you...and I promise that many will join you...as I am disabled and my big airline corporation...that I worked to near death for 13 years...and supported the luxuries of the criminals sitting at the top....they are lying, taunting, framing etc...to kill me off. My benefits have been stolen...pensions stolen...pay cuts x 3...you name it. We had to give back. Well somehow a fresh out of bankrutpsy airline managed to raise ceo pay...aquire another airline...raise prices...cuts saftey, quality and service.
Much like the likes of Gov Walker and such...
They seem to have no sight of who is going to work to keep their ugly butts on a cashmere cushion?
We will all be dead.
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
said on 2/19/2011 @ 10:59 pm PT...
This is nothing less that an all out attack by the states and business interests on the last stronghold of the working class. This is the last big battle in the class war, if AFSCME is beaten down in MI logically other states will fall like dominos. President Obama should be publicly advocating for collective bargaining and supporting the AFSCME members. This is IMO, one of those moments in history when fates are sealed; for the better or worse, what happens will influence a generation at least. Our president shouldn't be sitting on the sidelines.
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
said on 2/20/2011 @ 7:45 am PT...
I've reached my mid-sixties, having lived through the ongoing culture wars and the Reagan "revolution" and his successors in the oval office who've worked tirelessly to finish what Reagan started, and I've never sensed anything like what's been going down these last weeks (and g-d knows I've been waiting for this my entire adult life). Change is in the air, in the world's energy field. The beautiful non-violent people-power movements underway in Egypt and Madison may or may not achieve what they seek — and I would not for a moment minimize the formidable powers arrayed against them — but I believe the rest of us are being shown the way.
As G. I. Gurdjieff put it: If a man in prison was at any time to have a chance of escape, then he must first of all realize that he is in prison. It would seem lots of us are waking up.
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
said on 2/20/2011 @ 8:47 am PT...
LottaKatz and Francis Drake:
I totally agree with everything you said. I found Rachel Maddow's analysis of the situation to be shallow. Yes, these protests have big implications for future Democratic fundraising, in that the big public sector unions are major contributors to the Democrats. But the protests in Wisconsin are in essence an uprising of the people against the oligarchs, who are represented in both major parties. Maddow, as a representative of the corporate-dominated media (albeit a liberal representative) will not say this.
The interests of the Democrats and labor are far from synonymous. The Democrats have always had a huge big business component, and have shifted dramatically in a pro-corporate direction in recent years, especially since the U. S. Supreme Court issued its Citizens United decision last year. Remember that there have been important labor movements in America's past, such as the the International Workers of the World or IWW ("wobblies") who have shunned party politics.
You can be sure that if the unions are finally crushed, the Democrats will change their stripes and lose whatever labor influence still guides them. Already, this has happened to a tremendous degree. Hopefully, Wisconsin will begin to reverse this process.
Make no mistake, this is a conflict which is in essence between the people labor and management. Labor
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
said on 2/20/2011 @ 8:50 am PT...
Sorry, botched my last sentence. This is a conflict which is in essence between labor (the people) and management (the oligarchs).
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
Ernest A. Canning
said on 2/20/2011 @ 9:22 am PT...
With all due respect, GreatAmericanStickup @5's "false flags" analysis misses the mark by a country mile. What you see lies at the heart of the war on the middle class.
Aside from the under-reported fact that this assault on collective bargaining came only a month after WI Republicans voted to give massive tax breaks for wealthy corporations, one has to appreciate that massive deficits created by massive tax breaks for the wealthy, massive subsidies for the wealthiest corporations, and the squandering of public funds on the military-industrial complex are part of a deliberate strategy which Grover Norquist has dubbed, "starve the beast."
As Elizabeth Drew recognized back in 1998 in Whatever It Takes: The Real Struggle for Political Power in America, Norquist "has a long term view, which is lower the revenues that the government takes in, the less spending it will be able to do, the less money will go to the groups that he sees as the base of the Democratic party and its power."
That is why the same Republicans, like Reagan/Bush/Bush, who screamed so loudly about deficits while out of power became the greatest deficit spenders while in power--money they used to further privatization, res publica be damned while simultaneously bankrupting a good number of state governments.
If you want to understand what is taking place on the streets of WI, don't look to Obama or any of the so-called Democratic leadership which pretends to protect the Democratic base, all the while trolling for corporate campaign contributions.
The people who have taken to the streets of Madison are the rank-and-file of the Democratic Party, who potentially represent the vanguard of an Egyptian-style revolution.
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
said on 2/20/2011 @ 8:40 pm PT...
The same assault is happening on the catholic church with the priest scandal. All patriarchal religions suffer from the same abuse.
Catholic's are targeted because they vote democratic. This is an attempt at breaking up the church.
Jim Baker was doing the same thing but it was covered up. I am an athiest so am not defending priest's in any way but if you think abuse is only in one religion you are sadly mistaken.
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
Ernest A. Canning
said on 2/21/2011 @ 7:56 am PT...
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
Ernest A. Canning
said on 2/21/2011 @ 11:39 am PT...
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
said on 2/22/2011 @ 9:38 am PT...
Things in the democratic party are very interesting these days... I am curious to see what will happen. By the way, that image is really good. These people looks like bees in the hive...
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
said on 2/26/2011 @ 1:50 am PT...
There is a vast difference between rank and file Democrats and Republicans. Democrats hold fast to the principle that we are all equal. Equal under our laws-meaning that criminals should be prosecuted, and that each person is to be given a fair open trial. Our 1st clue to Democratic leadership turning from that principle should have been as a cold slap in the face. If memory hold, it was Clinton that 1st suggested that we look forward. Meaning that we not prosecute crimes of Bush the elder, which were little known at that time, but still very injurious to American principles. We have suffered a 2 tier legal system for a long time and it is disgusting.
One other principle I'd like to highlight is commitment to the middle class. Far from being a new economic problem, we have seen the slow demise of jobs of all sorts for decades, here in America.
Adventure capital saw a whole world of people willing to work for a small % of what an American would work for. So why pay American workers? BUT they did want us to buy their products. So we watched 'Made In America' vanish from stores all across the country. as did the jobs also.
Our nation's economy and resources have been plundered and the middle class is being cut off at the knees. It is being done so that some extremely wealthy can use the money to make more money off of us, as if we have no stake in our America. Some even argue that the resources of America are not to be shared with its citizens, at all.
There are some terms to listen for when you listen to someone campaign for a leadership position. The one I hate the most is 'American Exceptionalism'.
What I hope for now is the next election, that people will not pay any attention to paid for add buys, just listen to the candidates and hear between the lines.
Listen for someone who rejects our need for foreign wars so that we will be safe. Or someone that won't budge on how criminals, no matter the class they are, are to be prosecuted. Or anyone not willing to confront the idea of businesses being human. These are pretty important things to ask about.