READER COMMENTS ON
"Provisional Democracy. Count the Votes."
(35 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2004 @ 3:00 am PT...
I am so very scared for my country. I had high hopes that WE would see things logically and not vote with our hearts. I too had predicted a Kerry landslide. I thought better of my fellow Americans than I should have.
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2004 @ 5:14 am PT...
One very telling moment while standing outside the polling station was when a very old couple (They must have been at least 85 years old, honest!) slowly walked up with their new computer printed voting registration cards, the wife was in the lead, and she whispered to me in an accent heavy with some eastern European accent.
"Ve felt that this election is so important that we had to come and vote. Ve haven't voted in 20 years, but this one is just so important. Und my husband has 3 fractured vertebras, but we had to just do something."
Whoa... I could feel my heart sink with the importance of what she was saying.
"Never give up! Never surrender!"
- Commander Peter Quincy Taggart
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2004 @ 5:53 am PT...
In the words of the great Marv Albert:
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2004 @ 5:54 am PT...
I agree with you. Every vote *should* be counted. It just won't add up mathematically. Not with Bush holding a 136,221 vote lead. With estimates of provisional ballots at approx 140,000 by the Ohio attorney general and up to 200,000 by some other places, it would seem a daunting task. Even if there were 200,000 provisional ballots cast, Kerry would need to assume that:
a) All of the provisional ballots were valid
b) That he gets 70% of the vote from those said ballots
c) Absentee ballots don't increase Bush's lead even more
This isn't 500 votes like Florida. All Kerry will succeed in doing is dividing the country even further. I'm glad to say I'm with the majority.
Seriously though, hate and fear over hope and courage? If hope and courage is hoping that someone has the courage to defeat Bush perhaps. Both sides have used fear - you just happened to have tunnel vision and only see it from one side.
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2004 @ 6:03 am PT...
It is 7 AM in Texas ad I wanted to share”my own personal” opinions and concerns long before I listen to Rush and Hannity and get accused of drinking the Kool-aid.
I voted yesterday at 4:30 and watched FOXNEWS at 6 PM until 4 AM.
I was amazed that Bush was 4-5 points ahead in Ohio and Florida and the popular vote all evening. I was fascinated by the statistics and math that these pundits were looking at. I loved “Statistics” in college. For instance, if you have 45 people in a room, you have a 99.9% chance that two people will have a birthday on the same day.
I kept thinking no matter who wins, this is a fascinating process.
I did not know that 11 states had “marriage between a man and woman” on the ballot. When I saw that Ohio voted for it by 65% and even against civil unions, I knew Bush would win Ohio because that meant that conservatives, both Democrats and Republicans, evangelicals, Catholics, etc., were out in force and would also vote for Bush. I know that Mrs. J from Canada thinks this should be a “states” issue and it is. All 11 states passed it. American is still a religious and moral nation while much of Europe is no longer.
I was stunned that Bush was ahead by 57-43 in most red states but FOX was unwilling to call them for Bush even when the precincts were coming in strong. They must have had some exit polls that showed differently. I though FOXNEWS was very cautious. I did watch a little of ABC.
I always felt Bush would win until Monday. I got a bit nervous. The Tuesday early exit poll that Kerry won Florida by 57-43 was a shocker. When I saw that it was based on 59-41 women over men, then that made it a bogus poll.
I have said on this blog before that the missing explosives and missing White House webpages, etc., would not matter because Bush would win Florida and Ohio. I am surprised he won Florida by so much.
I have said before on this blog that hate does not inspire. The hate from the Left is so lopsided against this decent man Bush. The Democrats remind me of when I was a young teenager. I was against Nixon going to Communist China and I said “I hope he gets shot.” My dad heard me say that and I got a nice spanking with a belt. My dad was right to do that. It taught me not to wish ill on someone and that helped me years later to deal with a black girl who was glad that Reagan got shot. The Democrats like screaming Gore, Dean, Kennedy, Michael Moore, and some of you bloggers, especially Jaime, need a good spanking with a belt.
I was concerned that the “draft lie” and Moore’s film might help Kerry win but it did not. I will now go see his pathetic little film. Moore’s yesterday last comments on his webpage were also pathetic – One More Day? No, four more years!
I am concerned in the future for the state of Israel because the Muslim vote may be larger than the Jewish vote and I can see a day when politicians go after the Muslim vote over the Jewish vote. Even the most conservative Muslim still has strong issues with the Israeli-Palestinian situation.
This election was stunning! I also predicted that Sen. Tom Daschle and Congressman Martin Frost would go down in defeat. I always felt that the Republicans would pick up 2-4 seats in the Senate.
This was a victory for democracy, for our constitution, for the Electoral College, for the American people. This was an American election not a Canadian election, not Germany, nor France, not Europe.
This was a defeat for George Soros, ACT, Move On, and the Michael Moore/Barbra Streisand/Hollywood/MTV “Rock the Liberal Vote” crowd. I want to thank all of you guys for spending the millions of dollars that did not make a difference. I think that even John on this blog would say that that money could have been better spent on the poor – food, healthcare, education, etc.
At 3:41 AM, I drove to where I voted and picked up a Bush/Cheney banner sign. I kept thinking that New Mexico, Nevada, or Iowa would fall for Bush at any minute. I really did not think Bush had a chance in Iowa. We shall see.
I leave you bloggers with this: “If you are young and not a liberal – you have no heart. If you are old and not a conservative - you have no brains.”
The long national hate nightmare against Bush is over!
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2004 @ 6:19 am PT...
I think that was a little bit too much "paul" for me. First of all, in response to this: "I know that Mrs. J from Canada thinks this should be a “states” issue and it is. "
Huh ? I don't get it. Did you just throw my name in there for no reason?
Second, "If you are young and not a liberal – you have no heart. If you are old and not a conservative - you have no brains.”
Yes. I've seen this quote before (actually it's on Troll's site). I think it may have a certain truth to it. The only problem is, Bush isn't a conservative. And I'm truly in shock that 58 million voting Americans don't see that.
Regardless of who wins, I don't know what the hell to make of the last 24 hours.
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2004 @ 6:32 am PT...
I've been venting all over the blogosphere after last night. If anyone wants to add to the rant over "marriage protection" and Dems blaming the queer community go to this DKos diary and blow off some steam.
The Right will not win in the end. They have the immoral policies.
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2004 @ 6:33 am PT...
One more thing I left out - As Bush had big leads in red states, so did new Republican senate challengers. I kept thinking, long before FOX mentioned it, that Bush had coattails. I believe that the "marriage between a man and woman" on 11 state ballots had a lot to do with a Bush win in those states.
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2004 @ 6:46 am PT...
I agree all the "legitimate" votes should be counted. When they are it will show Bush as the winner. Fair and square. As Paul stated correctly the Gay Marriage bans passing as they did meant trouble for the Kerry campaign and shows this country has not gone completely to the dogs.
However I disagree with Paul about the national hate nightmare. It will go on until Brad and others like him have someone in power they can stomach.I am looking forward to the spin they will put on this election and how they will say Kerry got screwed. All I can say is Thank God for flyover territory.
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2004 @ 7:13 am PT...
Regardless of the outcome it is obvious this country is split in two. Will Bush address this or ignore it again for the next four years?
I don't think Kerry got "screwed" - by the voting. It appears that the voting went fairly smoothly. I AM very proud of my countrymen for getting out and voting in such large numbers. It appears that people voted for their "beliefs". But I wouldn't call this a "victory" for the GOP either. 1/2 the country voted against them!
1/2 the country has decided that fundamentalism is more important than the the constitution of this country. They have ignored the corruptness of the administration in exchange for God in their government. 1/2 the country listened to the slanted media and made thier choices based on lies and the manipulation of their emotions and belief systems. These people were SCREWED by the GOP to get their votes.
Conservatism is crying right along with the left today.
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2004 @ 7:42 am PT...
We win, you lose. All the michael Moores of the world. The left wing nuts. The people who call Bush and unelected President and the rest of the people have done nothing but spread fear of draft and the like have all been silenced.
You are wrong. Spin it how you like, the wisdom of the American people have spoken.
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2004 @ 8:22 am PT...
You are ridiculous Brad. Fox news calling all the elections later then everyone else is a problem. How about the exiting polling early in the day that were so biased and so WRONG it was absurb.
You are so far off base and so far away from reality its amazing you find your way to your keyboard everyday.
your side has been proven wrong, You opinion has been proven false. Give it up.
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2004 @ 8:35 am PT...
Lori, what are you going to do to address your problem with Bush? What are you going to do to unite? It is you guys that have divided!
Many an average flyover Democrat cannot stomach marriage between two men and other liberal social issues.
It is disappointing that Bush was denied twice a victory party on election night!
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2004 @ 8:37 am PT...
"The left"? This was not a left vs. right election. This was far right vs. middle of the road. To be sure, the left, under the principle of a united front, had to support Kerry-Edwards but this does not mean that Kerry-Edwards was pursuing a leftist agenda. Working class issues and the cultural war were not put forth with the strength and vitality they deserved. The left candidates, Sharpton, Kucinich and to a certain extent Dean, had a heart and soul that were not communicated by Kerry. Regardless of whether or not the issues in Ohio break the Democrat way, those of us on the left cannot afford to be silent and cannot knuckle under to the horsecrap that middle of the road is the way to win elections. The future of Democrat politics is the progressive and black caucuses (http://bernie.house.gov/pc/ http://www.house.gov/cummings/cbc/cbchome.htm). These two caucuses have about 75 house members (not overlapping). My congressman is a member of both. Like i said, regardless of which way Ojio eventually goes the left has work to do.
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2004 @ 8:47 am PT...
Divided? I'm gonna use some common sense and say that 3.5 million votes, the largest total of all time, and the biggest popular vote victory of all time are pretty good signs as to how *divided* the country really is.
To comment on Pam's quote:
"The Right will not win in the end. They have the immoral policies."
Of course we do, in YOUR OPINION. Perhaps we feel that YOU have immoral policies by supporting abortion.
Its amazing that the left thinks our country is divided and that their man still won. As is being reported, Kerry is going to concede in just over an hour.
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2004 @ 9:06 am PT...
The strangest event last night was when Edwards was introduced as the next VP of the US bofre his speech.
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2004 @ 9:07 am PT...
1/2 the country doesn't believe the same things as you Paul and Troll.
1/2 means 1/2! Bush won the election - barely. 1/2 the people in this country voted against him. Kerry lost the election but 1/2 the country voted for him. That means the counrty IS divided.
Just because Bush won does not mean we are required to change our opinions or beliefs. It does mean that the leader of our country MUST consider ALL of us. That is what defines a GOOD leader.
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2004 @ 9:23 am PT...
Its not 1/2. I was 51%. The beloved liberal hero Clinton could never achive this.
This election wasnt Far right versus Middle. The middle sided with the GOP and BUSH.
But you kow what. It doesnt matter. Let the libs complain, cry and moan. Let them say whatever they want. They lost. Period.
Spin Away Libs!
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2004 @ 9:29 am PT...
"Many an average flyover Democrat cannot stomach marriage between two men and other liberal social issues."
For me this elections was not about "social issues", it was about the constitution of the USA. Yes, I do have some leftist leanings when it comes to social issues but DO NOT fuck with the constitution!
Abortion is still legal. Gays will still become couples - (sodomy laws overturned). Prayer in schools is not allowed.
Why? Because of the CONSTITUTION. The Supreme Court has already decided these issues. Found the laws limiting individual freedoms unconstitutional. The gay marriage AND civil marriage bans will be found unconstitution too. The Patriot Act is being torn apart because it is unconstitutional.
The Constitution, the "real conservatives" on the Supreme Court, and 1/2 the country will not allow you or our president to violate our rights.
So yes, I have my "social issues". But I also have my CONSERVATIVE issues.
Stay out of my bedroom, stay out of my body, stay away from my personal freedoms.
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2004 @ 9:56 am PT...
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2004 @ 10:14 am PT...
The one thing I take from this: for better or worse, Bush and the GOP will assume full responsibility for the results of their policies. If Iraq goes good or bad, if another terrorist attack occurs in the US, if the deficit continues to spiral upwards... the GOP and Bush will be forced to assume all the praise/blame that results.
Also, there could be some parallels between this GOP victory and the Cons. victory in '92 in the UK. Which would make me very uncomfortable if I was in the GOP.
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2004 @ 11:19 am PT...
One last comment, Bush lost the first debate. He seemed tired to me. Maybe it was the day in Florida helping the hurricane victims. I thought he tied the second one. I thought he won the third one. I never thought that he lost all three.
I have always told people "Never understimate George W. Bush." I have been saying that since he beat the popular Texas Governor Ann Richards.
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2004 @ 12:04 pm PT...
> Stay out of my bedroom, stay out of my body, stay away from my personal freedoms
Freedom has boundaries.
Your spouse hits you in your bedroom, the government can step in. You do not wear a seatbelt in your car, the government can step in. You put illegal drugs in your body, the government can step in. You prostitute yourself on the streets, , the government can step in.
The constitution says "for the greater good."
No one is keeping you from being with a woman. No one is keeping you from getting an abortion. Your rights are not being trampled on.
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2004 @ 12:44 pm PT...
Here here Paul.
I have asked liberals over and over to give me an example of freedoms being trampled on and have not ever gotten an answer. Because there are no examples, just liberal scare tactics.
Of course, today, I feel vindicated in my beliefs and the liberal left feels defeated in thiers.
My happiness can only be expressed with one Howard Dean Scream..
" Were going to Washington, Heeeeaaaaaaaaaaaa"
P.S. Where did Michael Moore Go?
COMMENT #25 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2004 @ 2:12 pm PT...
"This election wasnt Far right versus Middle. The middle sided with the GOP and BUSH."
As usual, you guys on the Right are as disinformed as ever.
I love slo that you were unable to argue your points here over the last six months, but can't wait to show up here and gloat (one of you, infact, so cowardly as to hide behind a bunch of different names) behind the coat tails of a narrow victory built on hatred and division.
I think Paul puts all that in perspective by forwarding his evidence-be-damned assertions of America "as a moral country". Religous, yes, but moral? Hard to sell, when it was the killers, liars, and haters...the "amoral" in fact...who claimed the day.
If you have any question about that, look again at his story thanking his father for beating him with a belt, his application of that same principle on a "black girl" and his unsurprising-by-now appalling statement that Dems and bloggers such as myself should be beaten as well with a belt.
There's your religous moralism at work. And that's just from a sad man with no power. Imagine what's in store for the world.
Thanks Paul, but I'll stick with *real* morals, human rights, common decency and respect for my neighbor. The Golden Rule, if you will (which you won't).
COMMENT #26 [Permalink]
said on 11/3/2004 @ 2:36 pm PT...
leave it the repubs to use fuzzy math to gloat that they have a mandate when 49% of voting Americans repudiate them.
just remember guys, you get the country and the future you deserve.
drink contaminated water
breathe polluted air
eat tainted meat
think only of yourself
COMMENT #27 [Permalink]
said on 11/4/2004 @ 9:44 am PT...
> I am so very scared for my country. I had high hopes that WE would see things logically and not vote with our hearts. I too had predicted a Kerry landslide. I thought better of my fellow Americans than I should have.
Lori, how can you predict something and be wrong and I predict something totally opposite and be right? Were you predicting based on emotion?
I was predicting it using "all of the the polls" which showed which states Bush would win and which states Kerry would win. I knew that Bush would when some blue states and that Kerry would win at least one red state. I saw the writing on the wall, you did not.
Your fellow Americans are better and they spoke on Tuesday and you need to understand why. We saw things logically and from the heart.
We know your side - the liberal elitist/Hollywood/Michael Moore/Anything But Bush/Bush lied people died/Bush is a Nazi/Anti-corporation big business/class warfare side. You need to understand our side.
When the Democrates begin to come back towards the center from the left, you guys will do better. You need to listen to folks like Demo Sen. Zell Miller. You may want to get his book. He was dead right!
COMMENT #28 [Permalink]
said on 11/4/2004 @ 12:42 pm PT...
the problem was that this was not a left right election it was a right center election and the center lost. Here's the problem: when you're (again that's the proper way to use it) so far out on the right that Batu Kahn looks like a pointy headed leftist maybe you should just slow down a touch.
COMMENT #29 [Permalink]
said on 11/4/2004 @ 12:49 pm PT...
"Were you predicting based on emotion?
I was predicting it using "all of the the polls" which showed which states Bush would win and which states Kerry would win."
Really, Paul? Which polls were those?
Happy to look at your "non-emotional" evidence.
COMMENT #30 [Permalink]
said on 11/5/2004 @ 7:20 am PT...
"We know your side - the liberal elitist/Hollywood/Michael Moore/Anything But Bush/Bush lied people died/Bush is a Nazi/Anti-corporation big business/class warfare side. You need to understand our side." said Paul labeling and grouping all of "us liberal" into one big pile.
Why won't you also address my conservatisim? I believe in: a strong military, in "small" government, I support the death penalty and a strong criminal justice system, capitalism is not a bad thing, and I am a STRONG constitutionalist.
Fund the military, educate are troops, make them the best in the world. Most administrations have been very lax in supplying our soldiers with the basic needs let alone supplying them with training and proper equipment. My father was enlisted Air Force, signed up during Vietnam. I remember eating mac & cheese a lot and going without most things my classmates had. His enlisted pay could barely support his family. I am thankful my father joined the USAF, got us out of the decaying steel town, and showed me the world.
Elitist? I have lived in more places than most (US and abroad) and learned about different cultures as a result. Because I have a M.A. degree? I worked full time and went to school to get my BA. As I stated above, my family couldn't afford to pay for my education. I was the first in my family for 5 generations to graduate from college. To get my MA I took night classes, worked fulltime, and worked as a grad assistance to help defer some of the costs. I am successful, I am not wealthy but I am upper middle class. No I am not an elitist. I am an example of the American dream!
I can debate all of "social issues" with the best of them and I do lean to the left. As the a member of the "liberal elite" we are a very intelligent people. We question authority: we do not all follow the party line blindly into the night, and we don't "ditto" the spew put forth by the media.
COMMENT #31 [Permalink]
said on 11/5/2004 @ 11:20 am PT...
COMMENT #32 [Permalink]
said on 11/5/2004 @ 11:51 am PT...
Exgellent post Lori.
On a side note, if you dont want to dont answer, what's the MA in?
COMMENT #33 [Permalink]
said on 11/5/2004 @ 4:07 pm PT...
I don't mind, it is a very cool - Forensic Psychology.
COMMENT #34 [Permalink]
said on 11/5/2004 @ 8:17 pm PT...
Thanks Bryan, but I think this election shows that an atheist couldn't run for office anytime soon. Even if my "morals" are beyond reproach.
COMMENT #35 [Permalink]
said on 11/9/2004 @ 6:44 am PT...
> Really, Paul? Which polls were those?
Lori, my dad worked three jobs to pay for 3 boys. I paid my way through college on $3 an hour. I was the first to graduate college in my family in 51 years. Big deal! It's the leftist ideas that are failures!