READER COMMENTS ON
"VIDEO: Brad on RT on Questions About Wisconsin's Recall Election Results"
(32 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
said on 6/6/2012 @ 10:08 pm PT...
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
said on 6/6/2012 @ 10:56 pm PT...
Brad, I have a question. when the election in Wisconsin was called and the media "adjusted "the exit polls to make it fit the vote totals they were clearly saying the exit poll data was garbage. So why does everyone from the media quote them as when spinning the reasons for why Walker won? If the exit poll data is garbage they really have no reason as to why Walker won an election that the polls called as much closer. Right?
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
said on 6/7/2012 @ 5:55 am PT...
THANK YOU Brad!! We got the message
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
Ernest A. Canning
said on 6/7/2012 @ 6:31 am PT...
Brad: There is one point that came up during the interview that was not adequately addressed.
You were asked whether people are really that susceptible to negative campaign ads, such as the one talking about Obama's barber.
The question revealed a fundamental misunderstanding of the power of propaganda, which is most effective when it takes on major substantive questions.
In this campaign, the people of WI were bombarded 24/7 with ads, right-wing TV and radio. etc., that produced a narrative that all that the GOP had done was to take on the source of the state's deficit --- public employee unions and their pensions. Walker claimed that he had advanced long term structural "reforms" that not only erased the deficit but that projected out to a $154 million surplus and created 33,200 new jobs.
The narrative was not only built on lies (e.g. The Journal Sentinel’s PolitiFact labeled Walker’s claim that WI added 33,200 jobs in 2011 as "mostly false" as a federal report revealed that WI lost 23,900 jobs from 3/11 to 3/12 --- more than any other state) but sidestepped the reality that the GOP first manufactured the state's deficit by passing huge corporate tax breaks in order to use the manufactured deficit as an excuse to assault the unions.
It is not ads about Obama's birth or his barber that will be effective. It's the GOP's harping on "jobs, jobs, jobs" and a healthy economy even though the reality is that their economic policies which had been applied for 8 years during the Bush administration, that served not only to destroy jobs and the economy by exacerbating inequality and reducing spendable income for the vast majority of U.S. citizens.
Propaganda is most effect not when it addresses the absurd but when it addresses substance and presents a narrative that deceives the great masses of people who are misinformed precisely because corporate control of the media shuts off the counter narrative.
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
said on 6/7/2012 @ 6:58 am PT...
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
said on 6/7/2012 @ 7:48 am PT...
My phrase for the number reporting is:
I know this is:
Vox Machina (Voice of the Machine)
One would hope that election reprsent the Vox Populi (Voice of the People), but with computerization and black box counting how does one ever know if
Vox machina = Vox Populi?
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
said on 6/7/2012 @ 7:59 am PT...
I am hearing that a company of a few ppl (3?) called Command Central out of MN, recently offered free touch voting machines in exchange for their old ones (not touch screen)
in 40 WI counties? What the wha???
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
said on 6/7/2012 @ 10:24 am PT...
Frankly, I think the 2008 presidential election was thrown. Wall Street knew they were headed for disaster...and John McCain was chosen as a weak candidate. The idea was to throw the mess to the Dems to sort out. McCain had no economic plan and a hell of a unqualified VP. Now the Republicans want their power back and they won't give it up until they've polluted the water, air and land and sucked the riches out of the country. The plutocratic coup has already happened. We just didn't see it.
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
said on 6/7/2012 @ 12:11 pm PT...
Kat @ 7 -
Yes, I'm afraid that is true.
In January, a sharp-eyed WI election integrity activist (and Bradblog reader) learned about Command Central's "kind offer" of free voting machine upgrades to about 40 municipal clerks in smaller districts. (WI statutes allow for wards under 7500 people to hand count their paper ballots - which is what many WI citizens were working to make happen before this deal came down the pike.
I assisted several election integrity groups (EDA WI / WI COUNTS and EDA national) as they mounted an effort to reach out to those municipalities, talk to the clerks about the vulnerability of these systems, urging them NOT to take the deal.
...one clerk responded that she had a great relationship with Command Central, and didn't understand our concerns.
Now I can't stop thinking about that Command Central offer, as I'm hearing reports that those "deals" were in northern districts, where it seems Scott Walker did a helluva lot better in 2012 than he did in 2010.
I'm still trying to wrap my brain around what kind of impact that may have had on this election.
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
said on 6/7/2012 @ 1:29 pm PT...
Brad, Ernie, Jeannie Dean, anyone,
This just occurred to me today. Is this true? Is this the way it works now? Is this what just went down in Wisconsin?
The media uses exit polling. They get various bits of electorate preferences, but they also get how people just voted. Based on that exit poll information they initially declare the Wisconsin recall election a dead heat. Then shortly after the polls close(though people are still in line waiting to vote)when the electronic tallies start coming in, they're at odds with the exit polling. Instead of showing the race neck and neck they show Walker way ahead. The exit polls are then"adjusted" to match the machines' results. THEN the media goes back to the "adjusted" exit polls and now uses them to predict with not even 30% of the vote tallied by the error-prone and easily hacked machines and people still waiting to vote, that Scott Walker won easily.
Is that the way this went down? Tell me that's not the way this went down. Tell me they're not now secretly using the unjustly discredited and secret exit polls to justify calling an election and assuring us that the fucking machines have spoken.
If they're not double fucking us with the exit polls this way, how DO they call this election the way they did? What is their precipitous declaration of Walker as the winner based on if not from a projection of "adjusted" exit polls?
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
said on 6/7/2012 @ 2:02 pm PT...
"Command Central" doesn't exactly sound like a friendly outfit. That's definitely worth looking into, though really the whole state election system needs to be studied.
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
said on 6/7/2012 @ 3:38 pm PT...
David - well said and that appears to be exactly what happens.
But remember, what we are actually talking about are crimes against our nation and democracy that demand the full complicity of the mainstream media.
Which gets us back to Mr. Canning's points about propaganda...
And given that romney appears to be operating out of the same playbook ("etch-a-sketch" candidate that endlessly lies but has the media running interference and providing cover), is anyone else concerned?
Is America ready to have a dialog about propaganda here at home?
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
said on 6/7/2012 @ 4:35 pm PT...
Brad - A woman called into the Stephanie Miller show this morning and spoke of a company that replaced the WI e-voting machines FOR FREE, that only has one dude who wrote the software, and there was no public vetting. We MUST get RID of e-voting. Wisconsin was a dress rehearsal for NOV nationwide.
Why isn't there an auto recount for the one DEM senate win in WI? He only won by 779 votes - 1%. Shouldn't that trigger an automatic recount? The fact the GOP isn't calling for a recount makes me suspicious that a recount might turn up larger corruption.
E-Voting is the easiest way to steal an election on an epic scale.
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
said on 6/7/2012 @ 6:09 pm PT...
No auto recount in WI, but the state pays if margin is within .5 percent. This is outside of that, so candidate must pay.
But we all know it isn't MONEY keeping repugs from demanding a recount, don't we?
A recount could trigger either side asking for ballots to be examined by HUMAN EYES.
Trust me - given the information in brad's video, post, and this thread, no one wants the public looking at the integrity of the way votes were counted!
Repugs will give up the seat cuz their will be no legislation session before Nov elections and they can just STEAL this and other seats BACK!
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
said on 6/7/2012 @ 7:03 pm PT...
David Lasagna @ 10:
Is that the way this went down? Tell me that's not the way this went down.
That's the way it went down.
Well, not exactly. But kinda close.
At two minutes after polls closed (8:02pm CT), NBC's Chuck Todd tweeted:
...That is based on his the NBC election team's access to Exit Poll data that you are not allowed to see.
By 8:51p CT (or so, according to my own Tweet of the news) NBC called it for Walker, and by 8:59p CT, Todd tweeted this:
So he seems to be indicating the change was due to absentee ballots, which are tallied at the precinct on Election Day in WI (at least those which are received by then, and at least if they are not in the City of Milwaukee, which tallies absentees separately, unlike rest of the state.)
I also saw (but can't find initial source for right now), info that the first batch of Exit Polls said they were even, and the later batch had a wider gap. That either means their later results were more Walker-heavy or they had been adjusted to something. What they were adjusted to, we are not allowed to know. Usually the adjustments are to the actual election results which, based on my conversations over the years with pollsters, they consider to be the "gold standard".
They do not question whether they election results are correct. They always presume that they are, and adjust their Exit Data to fit them.
Tell me they're not now secretly using the unjustly discredited and secret exit polls to justify calling an election and assuring us that the fucking machines have spoken.
That's not particularly secret. As I tweeted on Election Night, just after they made the call at NBC...
Whether that was already-adjusted Exit Poll data, I can't tell ya. Because they won't tell us. (How are you enjoying your "self-governance", btw?)
What is their precipitous declaration of Walker as the winner based on if not from a projection of "adjusted" exit polls?
As mentioned above, it could be that the batch of data later in the day was different then what they had earlier. It's possible that a different "type" of voter voted later (those more inclined to vote for Walker, for whatever reason). Or, it is as you say, that they factored in adjusted data, based on the early returns.
They do have complicated formulas for all of this. Whether that formula is any good is another secret and a proprietary trade secret, as I understand it.
Feel better? Didn't think so.
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
said on 6/7/2012 @ 7:09 pm PT...
Bardgal @ 13 said:
A woman called into the Stephanie Miller show this morning and spoke of a company that replaced the WI e-voting machines FOR FREE, that only has one dude who wrote the software, and there was no public vetting. We MUST get RID of e-voting. Wisconsin was a dress rehearsal for NOV nationwide.
I didn't hear Stephanie this morning, but I suspect the caller was referring to this.
Other than that, I think Madison Voices answered your other question.
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
said on 6/7/2012 @ 7:25 pm PT...
So who are these lame, shallow people who keep falling for BIG$$$ negative campaign ads?
You really have to have a weak mind to fall for most of the ads I've seen.
Now, if an ad called a candidate a "poopy-head", I wouldn't vote for them because---Well, what if they really were a poopyhead? Can't risk that.
But for me, most negative ads aren't as convincing as calling an opposing candidate a poopyhead.
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
said on 6/7/2012 @ 7:46 pm PT...
Thanks for the deconstruction(our deconstruction?) as you know it.
So in less than an hour Todd goes from 1. asserting a coin flip outcome based on their precinct exit data, to--2. asserting that NBC's "models" indicate a comfortable Walker win. We don't get to see the exit polls. We don't get to see the models. So we have no fucking clue or--business as usual.
Who the fuck do these media people think they are that they get secret information about OUR elections to be not shared with us, the citizenry?
This would never fly in the Ukraine.
I'm very angry.
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
said on 6/7/2012 @ 9:41 pm PT...
David Lasagna said @ 18:
We don't get to see the exit polls. We don't get to see the models. So we have no fucking clue or--business as usual.
Who the fuck do these media people think they are that they get secret information about OUR elections to be not shared with us, the citizenry?
All of the above is kinda what I was trying to say --- actually did say, though without using the word "fuck" --- on Election Night last Tuesday.
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
said on 6/8/2012 @ 5:28 am PT...
I know. I know. I was just saying it again. You know how something can continue to sink in though you already know it, and then of a sudden it sorta strikes you the next time you think about in a way that resonates a little more or something and feels a little different. Plus, I figure we're gonna all have to say it a gazillion times in order to reach that 100th monkey for group consciousness to say-no more.
ps-- I love it when you don't talk dirty.
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
Ernest A. Canning
said on 6/8/2012 @ 8:33 am PT...
Brad @15 utilized the words "adjusted exit-polls."
A better phrase would be "corrupted exit-polls."
Exit-polls, whenever applied outside the U.S., are used as a measure against the "official count'" Our own government considers a significant variance between exit-polls and the official count in a foreign election as evidence of election fraud.
Adjusting the exit-polls to match the official count constitutes nothing less than a corruption of the data.
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
Ernest A. Canning
said on 6/8/2012 @ 8:57 am PT...
Professor Steven F. Freeman, Ph.D. is a member of the teaching faculty of the University of Pennsylvania’s Graduate Program of Organizational Dynamics.
In Was the 2004 Election Stolen? Exit Polls, Election Fraud, and the Official Count, Freeman recounted the George Orwell/1984-like moment he experienced on Election Night, 2004.
The laptop screen projected a Kerry victory in nearly every battleground state, in many cases by substantial margins. But on TV James Carville was saying that Kerry needed to ‘draw an inside straight’….The Slate Web site indicated a narrow edge to Kerry in Florida; the networks all had Florida solidly in the Bush camp. CNN’s Web site data informed us of commanding Kerry victories in Pennsylvania and Minnesota; TV anchors told us these states were too close to call…[In] Ohio…exit polls showed Kerry with a projected victory of more than 4%....TV viewers were left with little doubt that Bush had won.
After citing GOP pollster Dick Morris' observation that "exit-polls are almost never wrong," Freeman, along with his co-author, Joel Bleifuss observed:
The difference between conducting a pre-election telephone poll and conducting an Election Day exit-poll is like the difference between predicting snowfall…in advance of a snowstorm and estimating the region’s overall snowfall based on observed measurements taken at representative sites.
The ability of the MSM to have exclusive access to exit-poll numbers and to then adjust (corrupt) those numbers if they do not square with the official count is tantamount to carrying out the function of Winston Smith, the protagonist in George Orwell's 1984, as he incinerated inconvenient facts in the "memory holes" at Oceanian's Ministry of Truth.
How do we know that Scott Walker won the recall? We know because the computers and the MSM reported that he won. The official count is now the official reality, and any who would question that official reality are, by definition, insane conspiracy theorists.
Welcome to Oceania 2012.
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
said on 6/8/2012 @ 10:43 am PT...
I also found the link the lady who called in to Stephanie Miller was referring to, that's posted upthread. (FWIW, it's also referenced in a DemocraticUnderground thread, here:
Has anyone taken the time to put together a clear, concise summary of bullet points, some kind of bread crumb trail, and forward it to the attention of John Chisholm, the Milw. D.A.?
They already have an ongoing investigation, right?
But if they're not aware of some of these pertinent facts (the "Command Central" voting machines have two eproms, one for 'testing' and another for the actual election --- gimme a break!?!), will anyone follow up?
Also, what's the status of John Washburn's complaint with the GAB following last July's Fox Point (Sandy Pasch?) recall? 450 dollars doesn't seem like too much money to pay, unless there's a serious reason to doubt the authenticity/provenance of what you're likely to get in response to your request. I can't imagine that the company would send you anything but a dummied up chip, not what was actually used.
The Bottom Line shouldn't be over-looked. If a virus was programmed in to the "actual election" eproms of 3,000 Wisconsin voting machines, that would represent one of the worst political crimes in the history of the United States of America. That's not a trifling concern.
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
said on 6/8/2012 @ 10:57 am PT...
Here's the deal. Candidates are allowed to raise money.
If the recall effort was a national feeling against smaller-smarter Government measures, balancing budgets, and paying down stagnant debt, Barrett could have capitalized it.
I belong to the Tea Party. The same group you folks seem to enjoy condescending to. The same group the MSM keeps suggesting has lost its power --- simply because the rallies have dissipated.
To the contrary: whenever Sarah Palin would send out a tweet or a Facebook posting to donate to Walker's campaign effort, it worked. When the Tea Party Express and people from across this country went to Wisconsin to do their parts, it worked. The Tea Party has graduated from rallies to results, maturing and organizing in the same way the left has been doing for years. But the Tea Party doesn't have to rely on special interests or unions. We are confident in our message.
If you want your message to prevail, you're going to have to work to energize people to believe in it again.
THAT is why Scott Walker won. His policies proved successful, we balanced Wisconsin's budget, and they are now creating real jobs without squandering taxpayer dollars to do it.
COMMENT #25 [Permalink]
said on 6/8/2012 @ 12:40 pm PT...
Steve @ 24:
Thanks for your thoughts. I'll only bother to respond to two of them...
But the Tea Party doesn't have to rely on special interests or unions. We are confident in our message.
Actually, the "Tea Party" (not the real Tea Party, as in the Ron Paul Tea Party, but the fake, post-Obama "Tea Party") relies ONLY on VERY special interests. Were in not for the hundreds of millions of dollars flooding in to create and sustain the "Tea Party" from the fossil fuel industry and, largely, the Koch Brothers, there would be no "Tea Party" at all.
While you are welcome to support whoever and whatever you like, the fact that you seem completely clueless about who and what the "Tea Party" really is, to the extent that you think "special interests" have nothing to do with it is to the great success of the propagandists who have manipulated you since the Inauguration of Obama. (Yes, those very same people cared nothing about "deficits" and "debt" and being "taxed enough already" for the eight years prior to Obama, because they were getting what they wanted, while you were getting screwed by them.)
THAT is why Scott Walker won.
Actually, you have no more evidence than I, or anybody else that he actually won.
And in the name of non-partisanship --- since you seem to think this is about "our side" versus "your side" --- I should also point out that I made very similar cases in support of "Tea Party" Joe Miller in Alaska after his election in 2010, as well as "Tea Party" Doug Hoffman up in NY-23. (I don't have time to give you links, but feel free to search The BRAD BLOG for either of those two names.) Moreover, in case you missed it, I also decried the Dem challenger in the WI Dist. 21 state Senate recall for declaring victory with no more verified evidence that he actually won than there is verified evidence that Scott Walker actually won.
I'm happy to see you are happy that you believe your guy won in WI. I'd be happier to see you giving a damn about your democracy and the ability for we the people to have the self-governance that our Constitution envisions.
COMMENT #26 [Permalink]
said on 6/8/2012 @ 8:15 pm PT...
We've posted a summary of what happened in Wisconsin, linking to more than a dozen sources, at our blog:
Did Walker win? Maybe yes, maybe no. Those that know better aren’t talking
Much of the information here is mentioned in this thread or others Brad has posted this week. I just share link here in case anyone wants to see some sourcing and our perspective on the issues Brad, Canning, and others are sharing too.
COMMENT #27 [Permalink]
said on 6/9/2012 @ 8:57 am PT...
I will vote for Mitt Romney simply because he's the lesser of two evils.
While Obama engaged in pay-to-play and crony capitalism by appointing 68 of his 350 campaign bundlers to ambassadorships and/or various government panels --- which resulted in 500M of our tax dollars being squandered to Solyndra, at least he and McCain and Bush released the names of their campaign bundlers. Mitt Romney won't.
At the end of the day, your ideology or mine will never get a chance to have a Clinton or Thatcher effect since crony capitalism has taken over.
But your classification of the tea party is crap. First of all calling it the "real" tea party with Ron Paul when his son last night came out and endorsed Mitt Romney. I would remind you that Sarah Palin or Allen West (or other tea partiers like them) have not. Throughout the entire primary, Ron Paul's campaign continued to rub noses with Mitt's.
Plus I find it a little odd that Ron Paul runs around screaming "Let's kill the government, just make me President first!"
Take Sarah Palin for instance. While Governor, she had a father who was a school teacher and a brother as well who teaches public school. Plus she has a husband who belonged to the USW on the North Slope. The idea that she wants to hurts unions or union families is preposterous. As she said on Greta, this was more about recalling union leaders who are not representing their members.
Amazingly while Governor, she stood up to big oil executives, and teamed up with Democrats to send corrupt Republicans to the clinker.
THAT is the tea party.
As George Bernard said: "Freedom incurs personal responsibility, that is why so many men fear it."
What irritates the left about this election and the direction in which the country is headed is that the HEADS of the unions were repudiated. Not the members. Hoffa and all of them rubbing noses with liberal politicians (thanks Obama) by getting a pass on their Cadillac plans with Obamacare only proves it.
If you can produce a list of corporations Romney is doing the same thing with, take it to a tea party --- they'll be consistent.
Finally --- the Koch brothers have given to the right probably about 1/100th of what Soros has given to the left.
It is about ideology and good government without the taints of special interests and pay to play gimmicks that seem to keep magnifying as each president passes. I am a middle class tax payer, I am not rich. But I do know the keys to success and it lies only in my lap to achieve it.
By the way --- quit insinuating that election machines fail when conservatives win. Where were you November of 2008?
COMMENT #28 [Permalink]
said on 6/9/2012 @ 10:39 am PT...
COMMENT #29 [Permalink]
said on 6/10/2012 @ 3:48 am PT...
"Finally --- the Koch brothers have given to the right probably about 1/100th of what Soros has given to the left."
Do you expect people to take you seriously with such a ridiculously unsupported "probably" claim? That's not a fact-based conclusion, it's biased speculation for an "argument" based on thin air, your own prejudice and little else.
COMMENT #30 [Permalink]
said on 6/10/2012 @ 8:35 am PT...
Anyone that proclaims romney is the lesser 2 evils is either insane or a propagandist.
NO ONE KNOWS WHAT MITT ROMNEY STANDS FOR other than he is a serial flip-flopper and liar. But don't take my word for it - click link in caps or do some very simple research yourself.
I doubt there is any topic in the world that is EASIER to document than romney's lies and flip flops - even the repugs called him out on it in primaries!
Of course now perry, gingICK, and that parade of ignorance say's they are just fine with the lies and flip-flops.
COMMENT #31 [Permalink]
said on 6/10/2012 @ 8:37 am PT...
COMMENT #32 [Permalink]
said on 6/11/2012 @ 12:54 pm PT...
re: Steve @#27 "Where were you November of 2008?"
Since 2004 Brad has reported on election integrity issues, across all partisan lines --- yeessss, even for Republicans...
Apparently you're unfamiliar with the vast body of scientific literature, reported on this site, that shows the private computerized election systems currently running your elections have a high failure rate and are easily hackable. Please take some time to familiarize yourself with the copious non-partisan reporting on this site for *Republican* and tea party candidates (like, say, Joe Miller in Alaska and Doug Hoffman in NY).
Funny, one might get the impression you are simply another partisan hack who doesn't give a damn about the actual integrity of US elections, whose loyalty is to party over country.