Brad -

I would say that it's not primarily the blogs that need to be informed, it's folks at the NYT and WaPo, maybe even Time and Newsweek. As we all know, the cable networks are a lost cause.

Do you have editorial addresses?

I don't see your post there, Brad. I tried to post as well. It looks like they screen their comments.

Peg C - I am doing my best to get this information into places like NYTimes, Newsweek, etc.

You can do your part by contacting them as well. Feel free to collect and post addresses here.

But do NOT underestimate the power of the blogs! POST COMMENTS in reply to all of these sites that are helping to publicize the ACVR! Search high and low and start typing! Not kidding!

Yay Brad! You do such great work! You're just about to need a workforce behind you to help out since you're becoming OUR MSM.

For addresses:

Media addresses Snail & Email

Media addresses Snail & Email 2

Media addresses Snail & Email 3

GOP TROLL??
Could it be that our friend SUSAN is more "IN the game" than she lets on.
Intrepid "Non Partisan" Voter Rights Campaigner MARK F. (THOR) HEARNE, II lists in his AC4VR Bio,
his marriage to (drumroll) ........ you guessed it! SUSAN!!

Great work Brad!

GOP TROLL??
Could it be that our friend SUSAN is more "IN the game" than she lets on.
Intrepid "Non Partisan" Voter Rights Campaigner MARK F. (THOR) HEARNE, II lists in his AC4VR Bio,
his marriage to (drumroll) ........ you guessed it! SUSAN!!
Are Republicans stupid enough to use their real name in blogs?
Great work Brad!

Great find Bushw@cker! Check out this article and see if our Mr. Hearne could EVER even POSSIBLY have a non-partisan bone in his body:

The Case For Character

Another yukky statement by Hearne after the death of Mel Carnahan:

Deceased pro-choice Mo. governor defeats pro-life incumbent Ashcroft

"Others argued that a vote for Carnahan on election day would count for nothing. In an e-mail circulating amongst Republicans written by St. Louis attorney Mark F. "Thor" Hearne II, he stated that "on November 7th Mel Carnahan is no longer a 'person' nor is he a citizen of Missouri." He went on to argue that because of this Carnahan would not meet the qualifications set for a senator in Article I, Section 3 of the U.S. Constitution. Hearne also made a case for the direct election of a senator. He claimed the position of senator is a directly elected office and therefore Wilson does not hold the right to appointment."

Sorry for repeating the post!
Sorry for repeating the post!

It's OK, Bushw@cker! I think it bears repeating.

Read this 2-page pdf file on Thor Hearne to see more of his history as a non-partisan (NOT!!):

Thor Hearne, National Counsel for Bush-Cheney Re-election 2004

I just sent an e-mail to Ray Beckerman, who has been central to the fight for exposure of Ohio vote fraud. His blogsite is here.

Worry not.

The right wing refusal to hear out the opposition will be their downfall. Number one rule in warfare is to study and completely understand the enemy. Brad's attitude toward wingnuts is the right one. Very, very healthy.

Here is some interesting commentary on the power of blogs and the advertising dilemma:

"But many companies are wary of putting their brand on such a new and unpredictable medium. Most blogs are written by a lone author. They are typically unedited and include spirited responses from readers who can post comments at will. Some marketers fear blogs will criticize their products or ad campaigns. And, like all new blog readers, companies are just learning how to track what's being said on blogs and which ones might make a good fit for their ads.

Blogs' reader commentary can take unpredictable turns --- which is why it takes a thick-skinned company to experiment in this medium. On Weblogs' Autoblog and Engadget blogs, some ads are followed by a link that says, "Comment on this automobile," or "Comment on this product/service." On Engadget, 24 readers did just that, offering praise, suggestions and criticism about the ad and the products for Griffin Technology, a Nashville, Tenn., maker of Apple accessories.

Some of the comments were negative, but according to Weblogs founder Jason Calacanis, customer-friendly companies need not be timid. "If you're hiding from your customers, you don't like their feedback, you treat your customers terribly, blogs are the worst place to be," he says, adding, "PR people and hype-based marketers are not doing well in the blogosphere."

Ha ha! Watch out you corporate mothers!

Hey Theresa - the link you provided is available only for AOL members. What was it about?

BTW, it's hard to let everybody know just how much I appreciate all the great posts/links & enormous effort put in by the great folks gathering here at BradBlog, all working together to get & stay informed. This is an excellent community.

Yahoo! The Revolution is HERE!!!

Hi Kira,

The snips above pretty much cover it. The blogs are a new and innovative market, and very tough and critical buyers. Advertisers are getting ready to come over, but they are afraid of us. Still, this is where the money will be. The power is already here.

I'll post the whole article tonight.

This is a very positive statement (from Theresa's post #13) showing INTELLIGENCE!!!

"PR people and hype-based marketers are not doing well in the blogosphere."

PARTISAN AC4VR SOURCES VOTER FRAUD REPORT FROM PARTISAN CEFM
In his testimony to the House Administration Committee, Mark F (Thor) Hearne submits as evidence a report www.centerforethics.org VoterRegistrationStudy.htm prepared by Center for Ethics and the Free Market (CEFM)
www.centerforethics.org
He not only fails to declare his own strong partisan GOP ties to the Committee, but further fails to declare the Center for Ethics and the Free Market’s high ranking GOP pedigree.

From CEFM website
Our Board of Directors...
John C. (Woody) Cozad has been active in politics and government in Missouri for nearly thirty years. He was appointed to the Missouri Health and Educational Facilities Authority, by then Governor Kit Bond in 1982 and was later elected Chairman of that organization, which issues revenue bonds for hospitals and schools. In 1985, then Governor Bond named him to the Missouri Highway and Transportation Commission which oversees the state's Department of Transportation. Thereafter, Woody became a member of the Board of Curators of the University of Missouri System responsible for governance of the four campuses of the state's research university. From 1995 to 1999 Woody was Chairman of the Missouri Republican Party and a member of the Republican National Committee. For the past several years his "Food For Thought With Woody Cozad" commentaries have aired on the twenty plus stations of the Bott Radio Network. He is married to the former Linda Hickerson and they reside in rural Platte County, Missouri surrounded by dogs, cats, horses, and other fur-bearing creatures.
Richard H. (Rich) McClure is president of UniGroup, Inc., the parent of household goods transportation companies United Van Lines, LLC and Mayflower Transit, LLC, as well as related subsidiaries. United is the nation’s largest mover; Mayflower is the fifth-largest.
Prior to joining the UniGroup management team, McClure was a banking executive with Central Bancompany of Missouri, a holding company with assets of $5 billion. From 1985 to 1992, he was chief of staff for then-Missouri Governor/now-U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft. Previously, McClure was deputy chief of staff and assistant to Illinois Governor Jim Thompson, and director of the Illinois Department of Central Management Services.
A native of Springfield, Missouri, McClure earned his bachelor’s degree in management from Southwest Missouri State University and his master’s degree in public administration from The Maxwell School of Syracuse University. He currently serves on the boards of St. Louis Young Life; First National Bank of St. Louis; Central Bancompany; Missouri Baptist Medical Center; St. Louis Zoo; and St. Louis Area Boy Scouts of America.
McClure and his wife Sharon have been married for 25 years and have two children --- Ryan, 22, a recent journalism school graduate from the University of Missouri-Columbia; and Lindsay, 18, a senior at Westminster Christian Academy.
John B. Prentis
Born, St. Louis, 1937
Education, St. Louis Country Day School, 1955; Yale University, BA (political Science & Economics) 1959
Family, 4 Children, 7 grandchildren, wife (Nancy B. Prentis)
Business "Highlights" --- President, United Missouri Bank, 1972-76; President Omega Sports, 1977-84; Publisher, St. Louis Globe-Democrat, 1985-86; Vice president for Advancement, Covenant Theological Seminary, 1990-1995; Publisher, WORLD Magazine, 1998-2003.
World Magazine www.worldmag.com is currently running incandesent on the Terri Shiavo case.
From the Internic report Kyle Reliford is listed as admin, his full details:
Center for Ethics and the Free Market
Kyle Evans Reliford, Executive Director
P.O. Box 16082
St. Louis, MO 63105
Phone: (314) 971-1193
Web site: www.centerforethics.org
E-mail: center_for_ethics@yahoo.com
Opensecrets.org lists Kyle Reliford as on the RNC payroll

Internic as follows:

Domain ID:D93269632-LROR
Domain Name:CENTERFORETHICS.ORG
Created On:19-Dec-2002 15:41:45 UTC
Last Updated On:20-Dec-2004 01:35:40 UTC
Expiration Date:19-Dec-2005 15:41:45 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:Register.com Inc. (R71-LROR)
Status:OK
Registrant ID:C29316224-RCOM
Registrant Name:John Hancock
Registrant Organization:Center for Ethics & Public Policy
Registrant Street1:1561 Candish
Registrant City:Chesterfield
Registrant State/Province:MO
Registrant Postal Code:63017
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.6365329009
Registrant Email:Ragtimee@aol.com
Admin ID:C42576784-RCOM
Admin Name:Kyle Reliford
Admin Organization:Center for Ethics & Public Policy
Admin Street1:PO Box 16082
Admin City:St. Louis
Admin State/Province:MO
Admin Postal Code:63105
Admin Country:US
Admin Phone:+1.6365270963
Admin Email:center_for_ethics@hotmail.com
Tech ID:C42576785-RCOM
Tech Name:Kyle Reliford
Tech Organization:Center for Ethics & Public Policy
Tech Street1:PO Box 16082
Tech City:St. Louis
Tech State/Province:MO
Tech Postal Code:63105
Tech Country:US
Tech Phone:+1.6365270963
Tech Email:center_for_ethics@hotmail.com
Name Server:NS2.MIDAMERICA.NET
Name Server:NS1.MIDAMERICA.NET

These guys are so clumsy, they’re going to come unstuck mighty soon!

We better keep saving these files 'coz they're going to be disappearing shortly, mark my words.

KIRA, you're dead right!
The Tobacco Industry uses the Orwellian phrase "Document Retention Policy" but we all now know what that really means!
Stand by for a thorough application of the GOP Document Retention Policy.
I might even buy some stocks in the company that makes Ajax cleanser

Brad,

i've had many years organizing non-profits. Few people realize that the characteristics of a non-profit corporation are defined by state law, and generally deal with any surplus between income and expenses, and what happens to assets upon Disolution.

However, to gain tax exempt status, an application has to be made with the Internal Revenue Service. And such application requires at least a year of operating and the financial records that support the specific causes spelled out in the code.

Some of the lawyers you have been working with, should inquire of the Tax Exempt status of this group from IRS. Then publish the specific information and address of the IRS Complaint address.

Nothing like having 5,000 objections to your application before its even filed.

Again this does not affect the taxes of the group (which are controlled by State Law) but Tax Exemption is important to allwo doners to write off their donations from their taxes.

Its been awhile, so I don't remember the actual purposes listed in Sec.501 of the Tax Code that creates an exempt purpose, but many of these right wing non-profits ought to be challanged on a routine basis. The think tanks and foundations are probably ok, but not The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. Without the ability of the wealthy to write off their support pre-tax, they'll soon be less effective

Jerry said:

Some of the lawyers you have been working with, should inquire of the Tax Exempt status of this group from IRS. Then publish the specific information and address of the IRS Complaint address.

Nothing like having 5,000 objections to your application before its even filed.

Agreed! Though who are those "laywers [I'm] working with"?

Hopefully there are a few folks looking into this group status with the IRS, but I haven't done so myself specifically and don't currently have the resources to do so. I've encouraged others to do so, and hopefully they will.

But if you've got any good ideas on how to do it yourself, *please* don't wait for anyone else to do so!

After that, I'll gladly help start the campaign to send objections!

"However, to gain tax exempt status, an application has to be made with the Internal Revenue Service. And such application requires at least a year of operating and the financial records that support the specific causes spelled out in the code."

And ACVR is HOW many days old? Please follow this thread. It's golden. ACVR could, therefore, NOT be a 501(c)3 organization as claimed and is THUS committing FRAUD in testifying to a U.S. Congressional panel.

Kira, my friend. Here is the article I promised. I think it portends a situation for the blogosphere, in which we will be facing our commitment to truth. As corporate advertising takes hold, it will take all our might not to sell our soul to the Devil.

"Many Advertisers Find Blogging Frontier Is Still Too Wild

By JESSICA MINTZ, The Wall Street Journal

Gawker Media, one of the biggest brands in Web log publishing, launched a saucy urban travel blog called Gridskipper on Jan. 31. On that day, the logo of the site's sole sponsor, Cendant Corp.'s Cheaptickets, could be found in ads on each page. But by Feb. 3, the company had removed its banners and boxes, leaving empty spaces on some pages.

What happened?

In the intervening days, Gridskipper covered editorial topics such as eating psychedelic mushrooms in Amsterdam's Van Gogh museum and the pricing policies of an escort service in Prague. Cheaptickets declined to comment, but Nick Denton, Gawker's founder, says he thinks the site was "too naughty" for its sponsor.

More From WSJ.com

· Many Advertisers Find Blogging Frontier Is Still Too Wild
· Satellite Operators Mull Cost-Saving Measures
· Don Imus's Ranch For Sick Children Draws Tax Scrutiny

At their best, blogs are an advertiser's dream: the diary-style Web sites that feature running commentary and reactions are tightly targeted niche markets where avant-garde enthusiasts regularly return to read, post and send in tips. Well-placed blog ads can boost a company's image as cutting-edge. Plus, they're inexpensive: $350 a week, for instance, for premium positioning on Mr. Denton's high-profile inside-Washington blog, Wonkette, which got 2.2 million "page views" last month, a measure of how many times a single visitor looks at one Web site page.

But many companies are wary of putting their brand on such a new and unpredictable medium. Most blogs are written by a lone author. They are typically unedited and include spirited responses from readers who can post comments at will. Some marketers fear blogs will criticize their products or ad campaigns. And, like all new blog readers, companies are just learning how to track what's being said on blogs and which ones might make a good fit for their ads.

As a result, advertising on blogs is still in the early stages. Although advertising on Web sites was a $9.6 billion business in the U.S. last year, according to Interactive Advertising Bureau there is little data to date on blog ad-spending. Blogads.com, a service that matches bloggers and advertisers, says its business has grown from 28 ads in September 2002 to 1,685 ads last month.

The vast majority of the 8 million or so blogs currently in existence have few if any ads. Many are run by hobbyists or armchair commentators, some of whom sign up to carry tiny text ads from a large pool of advertisers through a service from Google Inc. The ads generate revenue only when a visitor clicks on the ad. Most bloggers, like Ronni Bennett, a former television producer who lives in New York's Greenwich Village and writes about aging on timegoesby.net, can't even offset the cost of her Internet access. Her site gets between 1,200 and 1,500 page views a day, bringing in all of $50 since December 2004.

For bigger advertisers, finding the right blog is critical, which is where Blogads.com comes in. Blogs that have been in existence for at least six months and have a dedicated readership can join Blogads.com's database, which currently lists about 750 sites. Advertisers use Blogads.com to find blogs with suitable content (technology, media, fashion) or political slant. They can purchase ads through Blogads.com by the week or the month. Prices range from $10 to $3,000 for better-known blogs. Marketers can chose which sites to advertise on and bloggers can accept or reject the ads.

Henry Copeland, Blogads.com's founder, works with marketers to create successful blog ads, which he says should be different from regular Web ads. "We just kind of shudder when we hear from an advertiser, 'Wow, I hear blogs are cool and cheap, and I want to be on a blog,' " he says.

Instead, he advises advertisers to think like bloggers, and remember they are joining an ongoing conversation, incorporate links to other sites and use a voice that fits the blog's general tone. Above all, he says, they should stop hitting readers over the head with giant logos. One good example he points to is an ad that Knopf, a publishing division of Bertelsmann AG's Random House, designed for Japanese novelist Haruki Murakami's most recent book. Rather than linking to a site that sells the book, Knopf's ad joins in the spirit of blogging by quoting and linking to other blogs that discuss the book, such as MetaFilter.

For advertisers dizzied by choices on Blogads.com, the few established blog networks stand out as relatively safe harbors. Mr. Denton's Gawker Media was founded in 2002, and now publishes 11 blogs including Gawker (gossip and pop culture), Gizmodo (gadgets), and Jalopnik (cars). Another network is Weblogs Inc., which now operates 76 blogs, including its own high-traffic gadget and car titles, Engadget and Autoblog. Weblogs has taken in $925,000 in advertising revenue over the last four months.

"For now, we prefer blog networks with known publishers," says John Cate, vice president and national media director for Carat Interactive, an international online-ad agency.

Some big advertisers have run successful blog campaigns. Sony Corp. is currently the sole sponsor of a geek-chic technology blog from Gawker Media called Lifehacker. A spokeswoman calls it "an initial pilot program" representing "a minimal investment for Sony Electronics."

Gawker's Jalopnik launched last year with Volkswagen AG's Audi as the sole sponsor. Linking up the two was relatively low-risk because the Audi message jibed with the site's audience --- cool, car-obsessed and Internet-savvy. "Audi is a dream advertiser. We like the cars. We can get enthusiastic about coming up with creative campaigns," says Gawker's Mr. Denton.

Jalopnik is "a natural medium for us to reach Audi prospects," says Jim Taubitz, Audi's online marketing manager. He says the ads performed as well as those placed on traditional Web sites; Audi ended its first run on Jalopnik in January, but is back for a weeks-long campaign for the launch of its new A4.

Jalopnik has written positively of Audi, but that wasn't in the contract. Just as with most reputable newspapers and magazines, Gawker and Weblogs say buying advertising on their blogs doesn't buy good publicity. In the blog world in general, though, there isn't any widespread ethical guarantee that bloggers won't be influenced by advertisers.

Blogs' reader commentary can take unpredictable turns --- which is why it takes a thick-skinned company to experiment in this medium. On Weblogs' Autoblog and Engadget blogs, some ads are followed by a link that says, "Comment on this automobile," or "Comment on this product/service." On Engadget, 24 readers did just that, offering praise, suggestions and criticism about the ad and the products for Griffin Technology, a Nashville, Tenn., maker of Apple accessories.

Some of the comments were negative, but according to Weblogs founder Jason Calacanis, customer-friendly companies need not be timid. "If you're hiding from your customers, you don't like their feedback, you treat your customers terribly, blogs are the worst place to be," he says, adding, "PR people and hype-based marketers are not doing well in the blogosphere."

For now, many big companies are sitting on the sidelines. "We're in a wait-and-see mode," says Stuart Bogaty, senior partner and managing director of mOne Worldwide, a digital ad agency that is part of WPP Group. He thinks that companies will remain skittish until agencies can better monitor and control what individual bloggers are saying about them. On the other hand, that might undercut their renegade appeal. "If we were able to convince a blogger to do that," he notes, "it would reduce the value of his blog in general."

Bushw@cker #17...

I completely agree about their clumsiness. I've always thought this whole administration was totally incompetent. It would be laughable, if it weren't so ugly and tragic.
They are definitely coming undone.

From the IRS website http://tinyurl.com/54e7p:

To apply for recognition by the IRS of exempt status as an organization described in section 501(c)(3) of the Code, use Form1023, Application for Recognition of Exemption and its instructions. The application must be complete and accompanied by the appropriate user fee. For more information, see Publication 557, Tax-Exempt Status for Your Organization. See Application Process for a step-by-step review of what an organization needs to know and to do in order to apply for recognition by the IRS of tax-exempt status. In addition, Publication 4220, Applying for 501(c)(3) Tax-Exempt Status, is designed to help prospective charities apply for tax exemption under the tax law.

The organization should also request an employer identification number, even if the organization does not have any employees. Download Form SS-4, Application for Employer Identification Number, and its related instructions to learn how to obtain an EIN. You may also obtain an EIN via telephone, by calling 1-800-829-4933, or by applying online. For more information regarding EINs, see Publication 1635, Understanding Your EIN.

Except for churches, their integrated auxiliaries, and public charities whose annual gross receipts are normally less than $5,000, organizations will not be treated as described in section 501(c)(3) unless they notify the IRS that they are applying for recognition of section 501(c)(3) status. Organizations that are described in section 501(c)(3) but do not so notify the Service within 15 months of their creation will be treated as private foundations. An organization described in section 501(c)(3) will be a private foundation unless it meets the criteria set forth in section 509(a).

A charitable organization must make available for public inspection its approved application for recognition of exemption with all supporting documents and its last three annual information returns. Pursuant to the Taxpayer Bill of Rights 2, the organization is required to provide copies of these documents upon request without charge (other than a reasonable fee for reproduction and copying costs). Penalties are provided for failure to comply with these requirements. For more information, see our frequently asked questions, the final regulations published in Internal Revenue Bulletin 1999-17, or Disclosure Requirements.

"Jim Dyke, formerly the RNC's communications director, said that ACVR will not disclose its donors but plans to have a multi-million dollar budget."

www.abcnews.go.com/Polit.../TheNote/story?id=607612
Found towards the end of this article.

Unfortunately, although a 501(c)3 must disclose its tax records and expenditures at public request, it is not required to disclose contributors or contributor information.

However, political activity is a different matter:

"If any of the activities
(whether or not substantial) of your organization
consist of participating in, or intervening in, any
political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition
to) any candidate for public office, your organitable
zation will not qualify for tax-exempt status
under section 501(c)(3). Such participation or
intervention includes the publishing or distribut
ing of statements.
Whether your organization is participating or
intervening, directly or indirectly, in any political
campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any
candidate for public office depends upon all of
the facts and circumstances of each case. Cer-
tain voter education activities or public forums
conducted in a non-partisan manner may not be
prohibited political activity under section
501(c)(3), while other so-called voter education
activities may be prohibited." http://tinyurl.com/6fd4h

These guys better keep their noses clean!

Brad, I went out in to the internets and left a lot of comments countering this group's claims. I will go back out later and leave more as it seems there are more than a few sites that have picked up and ran with this BS. Ya gotta give it to them, they know how to spread the shit far and wide.

Peace

MoveOn.org was founded in 1998 by a couple of people who thought that Congress ought to censure President Clinton and then move on to other things. You ought to take their advice: the election is over, President Bush won, and won decisively, the electoral vote has been certified, and the President inaugurated for his final term. In three years, nine months and 24 days he'll leave office peacefully. You might as well accept that and Get Over It.

A much longer comment from me can be found at commonsensepoliticalthought.com

In addition to countering the AC4VR claims I think we should point out that they should be deseminating information about ALL documented instances of voter fraud and irregularities. After reading the information posted on their website I find that every instance they cite concerns Democratic or traditionally liberal organizations.

Perhaps as concerned and supportive citizens we should be emailing them with documentation of Republican shenanigans and reminding them that to keep in compliance with their tax exempt 501(c)3 status (see post #27 above) as a non-partisan organization we would be more than happy to see these documents displayed on their website as well. If they really are what they say they are shouldn't they be grateful for the help we've provided in ensuring fair and honest elections?

Dana #29

You are showing a horrible political irresponsibility that effects all of us. This is not about President Bush. This is about the future of our country and the right for our people to have a fair election and voice in its government.
One should never, never, ever "Get Over It".
And we won't.

And to Teresa's post #31 I'd like to add to Dana:

Your judgement cannot be taken seriously in light of the MANY serious allegations regarding the FAUX Election 2004 (and 2000). You either have not read the many documents that refute your claim that bu$h "won decisively" or you are unable to comprehend them, or you are so wrapped up in neoCON ideology that you are hopelessly lost.

Your comments are not patriotic.

waiting for this story to bust is like watching a fuse...a pretty sparkly fuse...i keep newsgoogling "jim dyke"...i wonder when the tipping point will come...

And finally, Dana....

I thank you for sparing us your 'much longer comment', and I ask you sincerely to refrain from parroting that worn out phrase 'get over it'. It has been said more that enough. It is useless and childish.
Thank you again.

More 'than' enough I meant to say.

I looked for a few to post on... the ones that are really rabid don't accept posts. Strangely. The ones that do are accepting 90% of posts from undergraduates, who've clearly ditched English and grammar classes in favor of reactionary blogging. Having lived through 10 years of postsecondary at USC (the real one), I recognize these people. They can't be reasoned with. Their fixation on their own entitlement does not allow for objectivity. IMO it's a waste of time to disseminate facts to that audience.

Pre-emptive negative feedback to MSM outlets is likely to have a greater effect. Let 'em all know that the ACVR is a sham (along with the evidence), and they'll be less likely to take them at all seriously. Might even consider exposing them newsworthy. Probably not.

Hey Dana - your post compelled me to go directly to moveon.org and give 'em $50. Thanks for reminding me.

The problem with Pico and everyone like him/her is that they feel totally useless and powerless (that or they support hate-mongers and war-mongers and people willing to kill 10s of thousands of humans for profit). I know 'supposedly' smart people that feel totally helpless in all this, and when confronted with it, they shut down or get aggresive in their responses.

The election will be UNDONE -if- it's "proved" that Shrubman put in the fix on the election. To say "it's over" is to presume there was no monumental foul-play involved. Hell, if we didn't have such a currupt Congress in place, they would impeach Shrubman based on his lying about Iraq.. Problem is, those jerkoffs in office are the ones getting rich(er) (them and their friends) and certianly don't oppose what he did. In fact, there is a transcript from when the resolution was being disucussed to go to Iraq and the chairman said (mostly accurate quote) "the Constitution is out-dated" and "can be ignored in this case". The commission ultimately agreed. War was -NOT- delcared, our troops are NOT (and were not) fighting in 'war time' and get NONE of the war-time benifits they should have gotten. The troops there -now- are not in a 'war time' action and therefore will -not- get benifits or care they deserve.

This is about a LOT more than some lying, cheating, stealing, coke-head, draft-dodger superceding some elections.. it's about the fast-track to destruction we're on as a country. Our representatives are all "rich folks" who don't believe the Constituion of the United States is valid any more. Religious icons in Federal buildings? Democratic process being disregarded? Congress intervening in a "white woman's right-to-die" case while pulling the plug on a poor black baby (not to mention all the looking-away to the deaths of abortion doctors and the blowing up of clinics by 'right to lifers')? Going to an illegal war contrived on proved lies and doing it with distinct disregard for the Constitutional mandates set up by the founding fathers? Killing thousands of American troops and HUNDREDS of thousands of Iraqi civilians over what is most likely trying to control some of the last oil reserves in the world?

Na.. we should just "get over it", right? Move along, nothing to see here.. These aren't the driods you are looking for.

Savantster #38 - Cheers, Whistles, Applause, Standing 'O' --- Thank you!!

I second that.

Savanster#38

:O)

RIGHT. ON. Savantster #38!!!

And now: once more and in unison -

We LOVE your anger, Savantster. You howl for us all!!!

:confused:

Certainly didn't see that commin..

Yes, well said Savantster
Hmmm, what was it? 3 years, 9 months ? days, it will be over. What a legacy he will leave behind. I think about his presidential library, will there be chimp photos? or the one of him giving us the finger? Pics of dead Iraqi children?Oh, I know, a big port. of Michael Moore! He hasn't really done anything, other than wage an illegal, immoral war, so what goes into a presidential library?

Maybe his horrible little teeth will end up in the library.

Well, he could get accolades like this in his library.. People using the fact that he's so overtly christian to champion their own "anti-secular, anti-Constitution" campaigns. Since Shrubman stole office for his second term, religious fanatics have been causing chaos all over the country, trying despirately to drive us to a theocracy..

link

Aw jayzus, here we go again:

Movement in the Pews Tries to Jolt Ohio

From the article: The initial goal is to elect Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell, a conservative Republican, governor in 2006.

bringing in the sheaves

thanks but no thanks

Kestrelbrighteyes #48

That's the kind of thing that keeps me awake at night. These people, for some twisted reason, think -they- are the 'saviours' of society, that -they- somehow were who the founding fathers had in mind when they drafted the Constitution and set up a NEW country that was to be DIFFERENT than all the crappy ones out there at the time.

Funny thing is, while -most- christians seem to think our founding fathers were bible-thumpers, this list of quotes (and I've not actually done the research to verify all of them.. I suppose they could all be made up) shows that they were NOT such.. it also gives a little insight as to why we -have- a sepperation of Church and State.. why we do NOT have a theocracy..

quotes

Freedom of Religion -also- means freedom FROM religion... It doesn't take an itellectual giant to see how religion is a BAD way to run a country (but maybe a good way to run your personal life)

Savanster#51

Thanks for that link, what a great resource. I particularly liked this one:

"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, setup to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason

I have been reading a lot of posts over at freerepublic.com since this big showdown over Terri Schiavo began, and it is amazing to see the amount of hypocritical hatred being spewed by the evangelical right at what they percieve to be the highjacking of their religeously founded government by godless leftists and Satan worshiping activist judges.

I would love to read these quotes to these people only for the pleasure of watching them become confused when confronted with the truth as their empty little heads begin to smoke and explode with the overload.

Our founding fathers were diests. They were not Christians. It was OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE to them that church and state remain seperate. They were fully aware of the dangers and abuses of religious power. It is deeply ingrained in our national character, and that is why it is taking such a monumental effort to try and dismantle it.
It cannot be successful, and we shouldn't be afraid.
They are looking more and more like buffoons...irrational, frothing at the mouth, diseased beasts. More and more desperate by the minute. They will become pariahs soon.
It won't sell in the good 'ol USA.

"Deists"

Kes #48 -

POOR Ohio! As if they didn't have enough horror. What course is this Velvet Revolution of ours going to take to STOP this travesty of reason and humane thinking? I do NOT understand how an enlightened body politic could so quickly revert to medievalism.

It's as if the genetic memory of a superceded species of the genus loosely defined as "homo" had, all at once, been loosed upon an unsuspecting, complacently intelligent world. We are being overpowered by an inferior race. The survival of the world hangs in the balance. For goodness' sake, have we no effective strategies to combat ignorance and superstition? We've been around for a long time.

Examine history and the prophets.

I find this thread invigorating. You see, with all you liberal idiots running around trying to develop conspiracy theories and bogey men, the real leaders have taken charge of this country and are moving us forward.

I guess your activities will keep you busy and out of the way for a long time. Then about the first Wednesday in November, 2006, you'll all be saying, "What happened?" once again.

PS: I have bookmarked your site under comedy. You all make me laugh. :laugh:

Manananana #56

It's funny you call religious zealots "leaders".. People who lie, cheat, steal, and are about as morally bankrupt as humans can be, you call "leaders".

I'm glad we make you laugh.. I'm glad you think it's laughable that people want to preserve the Constitution and you think it's neato that this country is on the verge of a Theocracy. It's also amazing how ignorant you must be to think "reducing a guvernment to a religious state" is moving forward.. you see, history has shown that every time that happens? the country FALLS. That's not called progress, that's called self-destruction by ignorance, and YOU and your leaders -are- that ignorance.

We'll see how long you laugh once the Crusade starts in the US and people like me shoot people like you when you walk onto my yard carrying your bible and threatening to kill me for not bowing down to your god.

What's the MOST amazing is, people who believe in god as a being that runs the show and/or cares about humans are the ones "creating a conspiricy theory and boogey men (satan and the like)", but accuse those of us that use rational thought and facts of being some how deluded.. Free thought.. Free will.. it's amazing, you should try it.. get out from under that veil of brain-washed rubbish you live in at church and use that free will your god gave you.. stop being used as a pawn by "the powers that be" in this country, they certianly don't care about you any more than they do "us liberal idots".. you're soon to find that out. They care about themselves, and are paid by the corperations (who don't care about you or your god either, just your money and cheap labor).

One of the most disturbing things I see is that so many "Christians" don't seem to get what it means to be a Christian. They have forgotten that Christ died to set them free from the laws of the Old Testament. His message is in the Gospel (Good News), the New Testament.

If Christians really believed in the message of Jesus Christ, they would follow his words to them: "My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you" John 15: 12 This is not how the Republican Theocrats believe or act.

Interestingly, I know atheists who display this kind of brotherly love more genuinely than most of the Evangelicals I've come into contact with.

The US government has been running towards Theocracy since the '80s. Pat Robertson ran for President in 1988. Unfortunately (for him) it was discovered that he & his wife married just a month or so before their first child was born. Oops

Pat Robertson today is holding a great deal of power & influence in what goes on behind the doors of the Oval Office today. Here's information on Pat - one of the "real leaders" Manananana #56 speaks of but probably doesn't have a clue about:

From this site:

Enemies of the First Amendment
THE RELIGIOUS FREEDOM COALITION

OF THE SOUTHEAST PRESENTS THE ENEMIES (AND FRIENDS) OF RELIGIOUS FREEDOM
The Hijacking of the Christian Church

THE HIJACKING OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH
CHAPTER FIVE

The Fleecing

Pat Robertson has built an empire on earth by selling pie in the sky. He promoted himself as a sincere Christian, concerned about "taking the Gospel to every creature," and spreading the good word of the Lord. He proposed a Christian Broadcast Network (CBN), which would offer Christian preaching and teaching twenty four hours a day, providing spiritual strength and encouragement to the faithful, and saving millions of souls everywhere who might not otherwise have access to salvation of any kind.

The financing for this venture was an entrepreneur's dream: it would all come from Christian donations. For who could resist the opportunity to invest in the Kingdom of Heaven? Many made 'sacrificial gifts' because they sincerely believed they were helping to spread the Gospel through their support of CBN. Others were deeply moved by Robertson's promise that their gift would be 'returned to them a hundredfold.' The Reverend found that P. T. Bamum was right when he said, "There's one born every minute." The Christian TV channel idea had struck a nerve, and the donations came pouring in. And the best part was that since this was a 'religious organization,' it was granted a tax exempt status under IRS code 501(c)3.

There would be nothing wrong with any of this if the people behind the project were as sincere as some of their contributors, many of whom were obviously doing without in order to be able to send in their donations. One network employee reported, "You should see the thousands of social security checks sent over to CBN." At the other end of the scale, Pat Robertson and his son Timothy made a personal ninety six million dollar profit off the donations of the gullible. There shall come a profit throughout the land, indeed. It is hard not to be cynical in the face of such ruthless opportunism.

For Robertson and his cronies, the CBN was only a stepping stone. They had never intended to l