READER COMMENTS ON
"John Conyers Meets With Executive Director of Election Reform Comm, Contacts BRAD BLOG!"
(129 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
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Winter Patriot
said on 4/21/2005 @ 12:46 pm PT...
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
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Nana
said on 4/21/2005 @ 1:06 pm PT...
Hooray for Mr. Conyers!!!
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
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maxie
said on 4/21/2005 @ 1:25 pm PT...
Are we bad people or what!!! Great going,Brad and hooters to you Mr. Conyers,will send email thanking him.
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
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Nana
said on 4/21/2005 @ 1:29 pm PT...
And thank you , Dr. Pastor.
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
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peterpont
said on 4/21/2005 @ 1:36 pm PT...
Just think, A meeting arranged and accomplished in less than 48 hours. What power 6 or 7 emails have!
Peter in Oregon-home of the mailin ballot
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
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method
said on 4/21/2005 @ 1:48 pm PT...
Thanks Brad, John Conyers.. AND Dr. Pastor!!! - Maybe all those emails, letters, faxes, etc. worked!! You never know!! (seems probable!!)
At least it's some progress (no matter what scale!).. that much we can all welcome!!
Peace!!
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
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Bejammin075
said on 4/21/2005 @ 1:51 pm PT...
Wasn't it Winston Churchill who said
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to 6 or 7"
??
(heh!)
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
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David Chaffee
said on 4/21/2005 @ 2:09 pm PT...
I do believe that the "Powers That Be" are learning a whole new civics lesson with the advent of a free internet and email accessible by everyday Americans.
Way to go Brad! Take a raise out of Petty Cash!
Mahalo and Aloha
DC
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
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jen
said on 4/21/2005 @ 2:14 pm PT...
LOL!! Bej, thanks for the first good laugh all day!!
Re letters to Pastor: I felt very bad after my snarky letter to him yesterday and late last night emailed an apology. I made it clear I was still very upset and concerned about the election fraud issues, but the personal attack on his ethics and morals was totally out of line! LOL! It reminds me to go ahead and write when I'm pissed, but not to hit that "send" until I've calmed down!
:blush:
Excellent job everyone!! BRAD, YOU ROCK!!!
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
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Peggy
said on 4/21/2005 @ 2:25 pm PT...
I'm so proud of being associated with all of you. Of course, like Brad says, cooperate 100% with Mr. Conyers for now. If the "other side" (not Mr. Conyers) plays "dirty", however, it's battle stations again. And who trusts the "other side" to give up so easily and not play "dirty"??????? NOT ME! The work has only just begun (BUT YOU ALL CAN DO IT!!!)
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 4/21/2005 @ 2:32 pm PT...
Haha! Curses! FOILED again! (Tinfoiled that is)
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 4/21/2005 @ 2:49 pm PT...
I'm waiting for that personal apology to Brad from Dr. Pastor. I would think anyone who holds a prominent position with a group such as Common Cause would be very familiar with emailed form letters, so I'm not convinced yet that he's on our side.
Jen #9
I didn't see anything wrong with your letter, in fact I'm glad you were candid. The Dims should take a lesson and turn the light switch to the brightest level and shine it on those dark entities who presently rule the roost.
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
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jen
said on 4/21/2005 @ 3:05 pm PT...
Thanks Kira #12.
Anyways, I wanted to share this bit of happy "news" I got this morning! I posted this earlier on my "home" blog and am just copying that post here:
When I got home I got a phone call from someone working for Kerry. They called to thank me for signing the "Kids Come First" Act, and of course for $.
Before he could get to any of that I expressed to him that my #1 concern is with the election system, went over some of the problems from the '04 election, and asked if he knew if Kerry was aware that the election was stolen. He said he is very aware of it and one of the reasons he's not speaking out is because they are still in the process of gathering all the information and proof they can before publicly addressing it.
He said they knew that if they tried to address the stolen election before they had "all their ducks in a row" (my words, not his) they would be labeled conspiracy nuts and ridiculed to the point of people not believing any of what they said. He said as far as the paperless voting machines that it would take longer than if there had been a paper traill, but that it is still traceable. He also said the same thing about the Vote Tabulators - that even if the hacking of the machines was done in a way that couldn't be detected, that they can detect it but it takes longer...
I didn't ask how or any details of what's being done, but I thought it was somewhat encouraging and interesting that Kerry is in fact part of the investigations and discovery process - makes me wonder who else is involved that is just being very quite about it!
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 4/21/2005 @ 3:19 pm PT...
Oh Jen #12, what an excellent day this is!! Thanks for sharing that news.
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
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Alison
said on 4/21/2005 @ 3:34 pm PT...
Congratulations Brad & 6 or 7 emailers!
Thanks Jen for your interesting news.
Do we know who hired the private investigator that gave Clinton Curtis his polygraph?
Is it possible that it was someone working for Kerry?
I gathered from comments that Teresa Heinz Kerry made that she believes the election could have been stolen.
I've been so disgusted with Kerry's quick concession and lack of leadership on this issue that I unsubscribed to his
mailing list.
I'm still not sure what to believe in regards to Kerry.
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
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Steve
said on 4/21/2005 @ 3:37 pm PT...
Okay. I had composed this letter after reading Brad's words on Congressman Conyer's meeting with Dr. Pastor and was prepared to send it by snail-mail to Pastor but, after reading Conyer's full statement just linked here by Brad, I wonder, ala Jen (#9), if I am being too strident or if the letter would be counterproductive. I'll ask for the excellent wisdom that most of you constantly demonstrate on this blog in deciding whether to send it.
Thanks!
THE LETTER:
Dear Dr. Pastor-
I am one of the “6 or 7” people who “signed” (and, in my case, additionally commented in) Velvet Revolution’s group e-mail to your commission. I am also one of the, no doubt, thousands of people who have individually e-mailed or otherwise attempted to communicate with you since your unfortunate words with Brad Friedman. Out of respect to Congressman John Conyers, Brad Friedman and Velvet Revolution, I am honoring their request to not send anymore e-mails directly to you. I will extend that to faxes, as well, but I do feel it necessary and appropriate to communicate with you by regular mail.
Although I have no doubt that you were overwhelmed by the number of e-mails and other communications you have received in the past few days and likely could not read all or most of them even if you had a mind to do so, I sincerely hope that you have at least read some of them and perhaps begun to understand the outrage that your words have provoked. I really believe that your secretly formed and insultingly constituted commission was dead in the water from its inception as far as having any real credibility or likelihood of producing any meaningful electoral reform. If it somehow wasn’t at the onset, your words have almost certainly delivered its death knell.
If there is even the shred of a chance that something meaningful and popularly acceptable can still come out of your commission, I truly believe it would require your resignation from the commission and your statement that, in the interest of fairness and furtherance of the stated goals of the commission, Mr. Baker should also be replaced and that individuals like John Conyers, and true voting rights groups like Velvet Revolution should also have a voice in the hearings. I also believe that this is the only way you can hope to regain any of your own badly (perhaps, fatally) damaged credibility as an advocate for voting rights and the democratic cause.
While it would not serve the same purpose and benefit, I would suggest that if you cannot make the decision to resign your commission, you at least take the opportunity to apologize for your extremely unfortunate words and actions to all of us who, with profound and genuine concern for our democracy and the integrity of its voting process, e-mailed your commission in the first place and you, personally in the aftermath of your deplorable words and actions.
Sincerely,
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 4/21/2005 @ 3:46 pm PT...
Steve #16
IMHO (and what do I know?) maybe we shouldn't demand Pastor's resignation yet - I do think he owes Brad and the rest of us an apology.
I also think we should make it clear that we do not want nationalization of our elections. We do not want the federal government (stacked as it is) to have more power over our votes.
I would also like to see someone who is non-partisan and extremely literate in computers & hacking - the person who comes to mind is Chuck Herrin, a Republican who is not fooled by the last 2 presidential election returns. He is with us - and he is a professional "white hat" hacker --- anyway I'd like to see him standing on equal footing with Pastor and be a fully vested member of this Commission. We can't have a reasonable outcome if we don't have that kind of representation.
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 4/21/2005 @ 3:52 pm PT...
In other words, putting computer illiterates in charge of a Commission that is dead set to automate our voting systems across the board nationally, is moronic. I refuse to support that kind of slap in the face. If it defies all logic, it must be fraud.
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
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jen
said on 4/21/2005 @ 3:59 pm PT...
Excellent letter Steve #16! Okay, since you asked, this is my opinion - please don't change anything because of what I say though as I'm sure there will be other's who will offer better advice! (see, by the time I pasted this into the comment box, Kira already had some great ideas!)
I would leave the first 2 paragraphs as they are - it lets him know how deeply concerned and involved you are. The 3rd paragraph could be re-written maybe leaving out the part about him resigning? which would also result in having to change the first lines of the 4th paragraph.
Personally I feel he does owe Brad an apology and as far as replacing James Baker, I don't think that can be stressed enough!!
Great job!!
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
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KestrelBrighteyes
said on 4/21/2005 @ 4:08 pm PT...
*just smiles* This is great news y'all. And yeah, I'm hesitant to trust them too, but you know, it has to start somewhere. Let's hope for the best - and if this works out the way we hope it will, we'll have one HELL of a story to tell our children and grandchildren!
Brad - I swear if I ever meet you I'm just gonna give you a big hug!
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
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Steve
said on 4/21/2005 @ 4:10 pm PT...
Kira and Jen- thanks so much for your thoughts.
To Brad, John Conyers and everyone who sent e-mails and letters to Dr. Pastor- my thanks and congratulations on the apparent impact of all of our efforts. Brad, you are truly becoming a player in the political dialogue in this country and, in doing so, have given all of us a greater voice in the process. THANK YOU for all you are doing! I will also thank Congressman Conyers on his blogsite. Power To The People!
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
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Republicans are Fascists
said on 4/21/2005 @ 4:19 pm PT...
Once again the great John Conyers pushes forward unrelenting until change takes place. The man is golden inside and out!
I expect his sit down with Jimmy Carter to very detailed and productive. No one can turn away his 102 page report and not be concerned (for democracy's sake) with what happened in Ohio.
Wonderful news once again Brad.
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
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Teresa
said on 4/21/2005 @ 4:19 pm PT...
Jen #13.
Thank you so much. I was certain of this. Kerry has risen and now we are in for a wild ride. Check out his speech on the nuclear option..Cspan 2 and his latest video on johnkerry.com.
We are getting this taken care of on all fronts. Brad and co. moved so fast and so accurately that the gods are satisfied. They know we mean business.
Last night Mike Malloy had Bush supporters call in and it was tragic. They have lost it, and now know they have been duped. They sounded weak and helpless. Pitiful.
We can move forward successfully now.
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
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Dredd
said on 4/21/2005 @ 4:22 pm PT...
peterpont #5, Ben #7 yep ... see what 6 or 7 folks can do when they put their resources together!
Jen #13 The exit poll data, being scientific, is circumstantial evidence enough for a conviction. Add the corroborating evidence that is not at all circumstantial and there is no reasonable doubt. Even a criminal conviction could be had.
But prosecutors have the discretion whether or not to prosecute, and many of them who hold the cards have Blackwell's Syndrome, a disease we are all aware of.
COMMENT #25 [Permalink]
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Dredd
said on 4/21/2005 @ 4:27 pm PT...
Kira #17, #18 Most excellent idea!
'Republicans are facists' is not at all 100% true. But 'Neocons are fascists' is true.
COMMENT #26 [Permalink]
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Steve
said on 4/21/2005 @ 4:33 pm PT...
Kira-
Great suggestion here and on John Conyer's blogsite about adding Chuck Herrin to the commission. It is a must!
COMMENT #27 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 4/21/2005 @ 4:38 pm PT...
Thanks y'all! My brain must be working today - LOL!
COMMENT #28 [Permalink]
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Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 4/21/2005 @ 4:39 pm PT...
I'm sending my letter to Pastor, as is. His arrogant response to Brad is no less arrogant for his more reasonable response today.
I'm also forwarding to CDEM@american.edu the message I sent to the president of American University.
COMMENT #29 [Permalink]
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teresa
said on 4/21/2005 @ 4:45 pm PT...
Can you believe? They use bombs, bayonets, and bazookas, while we use E-MAILS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The mighty new weapon. Almost drownwd poor Mr. Pastor.
COMMENT #30 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 4/21/2005 @ 4:48 pm PT...
Teresa #29
I do hope the new email address CDEM@american.edu is not a big computer in an empty room - out of sight, out of mind sort of thing. Me & my cynical views.
COMMENT #31 [Permalink]
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Peggy
said on 4/21/2005 @ 4:48 pm PT...
Kestrel #20 - I hope with you; but, the "people" behind the Bush administration, which holds the highest office in the country, which HAS BEEN the most powerful country in the world, are NOT going to give up all this power lightly. These people are prepared to let any number of innocents die, American, Iraqi, anyone, to retain their hold on this kind of power: this is probably and nearly the greatest power any human being can hold in this world. Power over billions of dollars, power over those who are poorer and simpler, power over elections, power over voting, power over other countries, power at the UN, power over the military, power over the media. They are not going to slouch off because some e-mails were sent to this commission. No. It's going to take a lot more - so hold on to your hat. They are BAD and they are going to LOSE. The good guys and gals are NOT going to stop until they are gone, gone, gone!
COMMENT #32 [Permalink]
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Teresa
said on 4/21/2005 @ 4:55 pm PT...
Never underestimate the power of the word.
COMMENT #33 [Permalink]
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Barbara Bellows-TerraNova
said on 4/21/2005 @ 5:04 pm PT...
Just posted the following as #24 on John Conyer's Blog --- Check it out, Brad. I believe it is evidence of the wolf scheming while he's smiling:
Comment #24: Barbara Bellows-TerraNova said on 4/21/05 @ 7:59pm ET...
Dear Representative Conyers:
You are a true American hero. Thank you.
Are you aware that The Carlyle Group, with which Mr. Baker has been so involved, owns a company called Qinetiq, formerly a part of the British Ministry of Defense, which is trying out electronic voting in Ireland? Please check the article "British firm with defence links to test e-voting system" dated April 16 in The Irish Times.
Beware of James Baker. There is always an ulterior motive and his lawyers are everywhere.
My sincere appreciation to you, Rep Stubbs Jones, Senator Boxer and Brad.
COMMENT #34 [Permalink]
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Teresa
said on 4/21/2005 @ 5:11 pm PT...
It's not really the content of the e-mails that scares them, I think. It is the speed and the massive volume and the potential outrageous power behind it all. We could easily cut them off at the knees.
COMMENT #35 [Permalink]
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MMIIXX
said on 4/21/2005 @ 5:12 pm PT...
Teresa #29
the mouse is mighter than the sword!
COMMENT #36 [Permalink]
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Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 4/21/2005 @ 5:12 pm PT...
If nothing else, we've succeeded in showing establishmentarians like Pastor that we mean business. No more phony commissions, no more references to "voter fraud," no more halfway measures and promises to "improve" HAVA, while the "f" word remains unsaid for fear of upsetting the stock market.
Thank you, Brad, and thank you, Rep. Conyers. We've regained the momentum, and the liars and cheaters are back on the defensive.
COMMENT #37 [Permalink]
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Teresa, Field Captain with the 6 or 7
said on 4/21/2005 @ 5:32 pm PT...
Yes, Ha ha ha, Mmiixx #35!!
COMMENT #38 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 4/21/2005 @ 5:40 pm PT...
Hahahahaha!! MMIIXX #35
The Mouse that Roared!!
COMMENT #39 [Permalink]
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Republicans are Fascists
said on 4/21/2005 @ 5:41 pm PT...
----
'Republicans are facists' is not at all 100% true. But 'Neocons are fascists' is true.
Dredd
----
Pure bullshit. Those who support and voted for this fascists administration are indeed fascists themselves.
You can do your damnedest to defend this party all you want but you can't change the facts.
Come to understand.
COMMENT #40 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 4/21/2005 @ 5:45 pm PT...
The only CONS I like are EmotiCONS!! Thanks Dredd for the MSN link (I surreptitiously got that link from your emoties!)
COMMENT #41 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 4/21/2005 @ 5:47 pm PT...
Republicans are Fascists #39
Hmmm - you've got a point. Ignorance is no excuse when it comes to destroying Democracy.
COMMENT #42 [Permalink]
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valleygirl
said on 4/21/2005 @ 5:54 pm PT...
Maybe Pastor could extend his training and experience by appearing on Brad's radio show. Then again, probably only 6 or 7 people would phone in...
COMMENT #43 [Permalink]
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Bejammin075
said on 4/21/2005 @ 5:56 pm PT...
Conyers for Speaker in '08.
COMMENT #44 [Permalink]
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Bejammin075
said on 4/21/2005 @ 6:01 pm PT...
Dang it. I meant to say
Conyers for Speaker in '06
COMMENT #45 [Permalink]
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Teresa, captain with the 6 or 7
said on 4/21/2005 @ 6:02 pm PT...
Mmiixx #35
I'm a Hard Clickin' Sister!
Aren't we all Clickheads?
Republicans are economic dickhead morons. They've done what they always do. Lead us into economic ruin. And once again, the Democrats have to take over to fix it.
COMMENT #46 [Permalink]
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Republicans are Fascists
said on 4/21/2005 @ 6:08 pm PT...
RE: #41 Kira
Kira, I have more than a point. My online name is dead on correct.
It's the uninformed and ignorant like Dredd who have a hard time discerning between fact and opinion. This uniformed mentality that is so prevelant in our society today is exactly the reason our country has fallen so low.
It's sad also how this person chose to distract from the important info on Conyers by calling out a fellow poster.
COMMENT #47 [Permalink]
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Torqued
said on 4/21/2005 @ 6:20 pm PT...
Today a closer step... maybe. Today we celebrate and start again and tomorrow we'll do more of the same. Democracy is a (full frontal) contact sport, so lets all get back to work MAKING NOISE!!!
COMMENT #48 [Permalink]
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Steve
said on 4/21/2005 @ 6:29 pm PT...
Republicans Are Fascists-
I would not be so quick to jump on Dredd and argue with a compatriot in the cause. I know personally of several Republicans who did not vote for Bush and who are appalled by what he and his administration are doing. They continue to call themselves Republicans. At a certain point, it is just a name or a label and we should all be careful to not be too quick to over generalize. We are all in this fight together and I'll take Democrats, Republicans or whatever on our side, as long as their heart is in the right place.
COMMENT #49 [Permalink]
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Winter Patriot
said on 4/21/2005 @ 6:33 pm PT...
I'm with Steve on comment #48.
COMMENT #50 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 4/21/2005 @ 6:34 pm PT...
Republicans are Fascists #46
What about the Republicans who didn't vote for bu$h?
COMMENT #51 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 4/21/2005 @ 6:37 pm PT...
Woops - I hadn't seen Steve's when I posted my #50. Just so you don't think I'm dingier than I am.
COMMENT #52 [Permalink]
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MMIIXX
said on 4/21/2005 @ 7:18 pm PT...
DREDD's on the side of "truth" as his posts have shown ,what other side is there.
End of story.
COMMENT #53 [Permalink]
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Winter Patriot
said on 4/21/2005 @ 7:21 pm PT...
re #51: No problem, Kira.
We all make mistakes sometimes. I make a pile of them myself, and the best I can hope for is to make most of mine when nobody's watching!
Maybe I should elaborate on my previous comment (#49). I have read many essays by conservative Republicans who feel that their party has been hijacked out from under their noses. They're ticked about it --- and some of them are a lot angrier than many liberal-Democrats seem to be. As I have written previously, both here and over at please don't read my blog, these guys are telling the truth as they see it, they love this country as much as anyone on the left does, and if we don't give them credit for at least this much, it's going to be awfully difficult to form a broad-based coalition. I think such a coalition is our best hope --- perhaps our only hope --- and I, like Steve (in #48), would hate to see labels get in the way.
For an example of a prominent Republican who doesn't seem like a fascist, consider Ron Paul, whose essay "What If (It Was All a Big Mistake)?" was the subject of this BradBlog thread. Another good example is Paul Craig Roberts, whose essays are regularly published at counterpunch.org.
COMMENT #54 [Permalink]
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Winter Patriot
said on 4/21/2005 @ 7:26 pm PT...
re #47. Another good point, Torqued. It's completely understandable that this news makes people happy, but we can't waste too much time celebrating. There is so much more to be done.
COMMENT #55 [Permalink]
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Peg C
said on 4/21/2005 @ 7:31 pm PT...
Boy, everyone's been busy since I last visited! Great news all 'round, and I'll finish reading the comments once I get THIS bit of BS off my chest.
About two months ago, my mother wrote our Senator, Olympia Snowe, a letter expressing dismay at the apparently fraudulent "election" that reinserted * into ours lives and our nightmares. Not until today was her letter answered, and I find the timing of it curious, given its opening paragraph:
"Dear ________:
"Thank you for contacting me regarding the presidential election. I appreciate hearing from you.
"You expressed concern regarding the validity of the 2004 presidential election. When Senator Boxer and Representative Stephanie Tubbs Jones challenged the validity of the Ohio electoral votes, the challenge was rejected in the Senate by a bipartisan vote of 74 to 1, and by a vote of 267 to 31 in the House of Representatives. Eighty-eight separate bipartisan election boards, from every county of Ohio, verified and vouched for the integrity of the results. Not a single local, county or state election official in Ohio contested this election. When all the votes were finally counted in Ohio, President Bush received 120,000 votes[sic]."
(Was that last statement a freudian slip?)
Anyway, I think the powers-that-shouldn't-be are feeling uneasy. Last week's Newsweek featured a "heartfelt" essay by a naturalized Nigerian, who voted for Kerry, entitled "My Candidate Lost, But My Vote Was Counted." Isn't that a bit much?!
Now, back to the thread...great work Brad, and every fine person here!!
COMMENT #56 [Permalink]
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Emily
said on 4/21/2005 @ 7:37 pm PT...
This is wonderful news!!! I hope all goes well and they just don't listen and they do take action with his irregularities. I'm glad Mr. Carter is working with him. Good job! God bless everybody who wrote! I'm glad I did.
COMMENT #57 [Permalink]
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Peg C
said on 4/21/2005 @ 7:43 pm PT...
Steve #48, Winter P #53 -
Well spoken.
COMMENT #58 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 4/21/2005 @ 7:52 pm PT...
Thanx #53 Winter "please don't read my blog" Patriot. I'm not going to follow your advice, though, because I like reading your blog.
That label thing started back in the '80s and the heavy campaign by the neoCON propaganda machine (ala Newt Gingrich - read this article
At the same time NLP was being used for therapy and to enhance communications, the dark side of the force was getting aggressive. Newt Gingrich in particular --- skilled in these techniques --- was working with Republican leaders and conservatives in the media to frame the word "liberal" as something akin to "traitor," an effort that ultimately led to his infamous "secret" memo to GOP leaders titled "Language: A Key Mechanism of Control."
As FAIR (Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting) notes, Newt wrote, "Often we search hard for words to help us define our opponents. ... Apply these [words] to the opponent, their record, proposals and their party.
"Decay... failure (fail)... collapse(ing)... deeper... crisis... urgent(cy)... destructive... destroy... sick... pathetic... lie... liberal... they/them... unionized bureaucracy... ‘compassion’ is not enough... betray... consequences... limit(s)... shallow... traitors... sensationalists...endanger... coercion... hypocrisy... radical... threaten... devour... waste... corruption... incompetent... permissive attitudes... destructive... impose... self-serving... greed... ideological... insecure... anti-(issue): flag, family, child, jobs... pessimistic... excuses... intolerant... stagnation... welfare... corrupt... selfish... insensitive... status quo... mandate(s)... taxes... spend(ing)... shame... disgrace... punish (poor...)... bizarre... cynicism... cheat... steal... abuse of power... machine... bosses... obsolete... criminal rights... red tape... patronage."
On the other hand, FAIR notes, Newt suggested that Republicans should also "memorize as many as possible" of the following "Positive Governing Words" to apply to any reference to Republicans or GOP efforts: ***MORE***
So - the labels were put in place by the Republican neoCONs to exclude and neuter those who are not a part of their gang.
IMO, we need to remember that and not give any power to their playground bully games. The labels Republican and Democrat used to be non-threatening and I think we need to get back to that place.
COMMENT #59 [Permalink]
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Republicans are Fascists
said on 4/21/2005 @ 8:11 pm PT...
RE: #48 Steve
-----
"Republicans Are Fascists-
I would not be so quick to jump on Dredd and argue with a compatriot in the cause. "
-----
I'm so quick to jump on Dredd? UMMM shouldn't that be Dredd so quick to jump on me?
So you want to split hairs on the FEW republicans who didn't vote for Bush and all of a sudden jump on the nitwit bandwagon that my online name is all of sudden so far fetched and inaccurate?
I think this blog in it's new found popularity has followed suit with most other online discussions, the pack mentality reigns.
COMMENT #60 [Permalink]
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Republicans are Fascists
said on 4/21/2005 @ 8:13 pm PT...
----
"Well spoken. "
Peg C
----
LOL, if you say so.
COMMENT #61 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 4/21/2005 @ 8:18 pm PT...
Republicans are Fascists #59
Lots of Republicans ARE Fascists. I've always liked your online name! But back to your statement that only a FEW repubs voted against bu$h --- well --- remember that we all believe the election numbers were fraudulent. There may have been a lot more who voted for Kerry than you give credit to. The rest of 'em can take a flying leap, though or at least get a brain.
COMMENT #62 [Permalink]
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Republicans are Fascists
said on 4/21/2005 @ 8:18 pm PT...
RE#52 MMIIXX
LOL, another if you say so.
Now this is really getting pathetic. EXIT stage left. another online discussion board taken over by the pack mentality.
COMMENT #63 [Permalink]
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Winter Patriot
said on 4/21/2005 @ 8:23 pm PT...
re # 58: Yes, Kira! Good point!
In fact, the idea that one can "define" an opponent is sheer nonsense. Nobody can define anybody. Definitions apply to words, not people.
It seems to me that Gingrich would have been a lot more accurate if he had written: "Often we search hard for words to help us slander our opponents..." But he could never have written that --- it would have been too honest.
COMMENT #64 [Permalink]
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Savantster
said on 4/21/2005 @ 8:35 pm PT...
Republicans are Fascists at #59
I think you are taking it too personally... What Dredd said is "true" in a "strict sense".. if even ONE 'Republican' disagreed with the fascists in power but still believed themselves to be a Repub, then 'technically' what Dredd said is true. His assertion wasn't that you (your name) was 'far fetched and innacurate' in that context, he was mentioning that "all neo-cons -are- fascists even though only -most- Republicans are"..
Personally, I don't think "all" Republicans are "fascists".. I think they are all greedy, stingey, foolish, etc.. but not exactly "fascists".. Can't you see that their belief that "they should pay less taxes" and "businesses do what's right for people" and "big governments are wasteful" are at least 'partially' correct in some contexts? Not to mention, historically, Rebublican has been about "conservative moral stances" and "pro-gun" and the like.. Passing laws that help "small businesses" (even though it never quite happened well enough to matter, and always had -large- loop-holes for big businesses)..
Anyway, Dredd wasn't "attacking" you.. granted, perhaps his statement didn't need to be made, but in this day and age when we (as in the guys fighting for truth) are trying to be as "exacting" as we can, his statement is (seemingly) valid; I didn't get the sense he was 'picking a fight', but you (seemingly) got very defensive..
I think part of the "point" (even if Dredd didn't intend for it to be a point) is that, we need to be 'careful' in an overall context about how we lable things. If we make sweeping statements too often, people will stop listening to us.. that's a bad thing since we're speaking truths (and trying to be accurate as often as we can) and we need their support as well.. *shrug*
Just my 2 cents worth.. I like the input from both of you.. there's no need for animosity..
COMMENT #65 [Permalink]
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Winter Patriot
said on 4/21/2005 @ 8:38 pm PT...
re #62. Thanks for your kind words.
Seriously, though: this blog has always accepted the idea that people have a variety of viewpoints --- and they are all welcome here. [Or at least most of them are --- freeper trolls have not been made especially welcome, but everyone else certainly is!]
We have a ton of things to do, most of which are more important than arguing about whether ALL republicans are fascists or only SOME of them. I hope you will hang around and keep contributing to the discussions.
And I hope you will keep your online name, too. Several contributors here see it as an overly broad brush. But so what? That doesn't mean you have to exit stage left! It doesn't mean you have to exit at all.
COMMENT #66 [Permalink]
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Carol
said on 4/21/2005 @ 8:53 pm PT...
Yeah, baby! I'm so glad I sent that e-mail to Pastor now! Go Brad, Go VR and GOOOOOO Conyers!
COMMENT #67 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 4/21/2005 @ 9:01 pm PT...
We are like a family - brothers & sisters. Please stay Republicans are Fascists. We need you.
COMMENT #68 [Permalink]
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Joan
said on 4/21/2005 @ 9:04 pm PT...
Can't say it enough...Thank you, Brad!! Thank you, John Conyers!! And a big thank you to the gods-that-be for the two of you...
I just have to weigh in here & say I think Chuck Herrin would be an excellent choice for this commission.
It's unrealistic to demand (not that anyone here has done this) that members of a commission like this be "non-partisan". If you're a politician and you have a pulse, it's a safe bet you lean one way or the other! People have opinions. I've always thought it was naive to actually believe that Supreme Court justices are somehow exempt from this. Guess we know a little better now, after their stellar performance during election 2000.
I had a long, unexpected, heart-to-heart conversation today with a conservative, a guy who had come to see about tiling my floors! He was a good man and we sat at my dining room table and got into our views on God, Bush, the state of the country and whether porcelain is better than marble.
Good people disagreeing amiably: one small step for mankind!
COMMENT #69 [Permalink]
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MMIIXX
said on 4/21/2005 @ 9:29 pm PT...
Well Joan whats better porcelain or marble.
COMMENT #70 [Permalink]
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John in Cincinnati
said on 4/21/2005 @ 9:29 pm PT...
Dialogue --- not resignations and firings --- is the wiser course. I'm glad to read we are moving in that direction.
I did write Dr. Pastor from my home email addie so he'd know he hadn't merely been spammed by six or seven. Sent him my home phone number too, in case he wanted to chat. So far, no call...
COMMENT #71 [Permalink]
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Cole...
said on 4/21/2005 @ 9:44 pm PT...
Tuff number going on now.
I have been just setting back and enjoying the view and then there was this 'change'--a simple differrence of an opinion, and actually only a 'part' of an opinion, and bam! What happened? What should have passed for a 'semantic' concept of minor importance becomes turf to be defended, or abandoned.
None of that! Just take a bit of time to bask in a rare bit of success, thank Brad for having gotten us to this point and shake hands-(E-style) and dig in. We have a long hard row to hoe and we need everyone.
COMMENT #72 [Permalink]
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Teresa
said on 4/21/2005 @ 9:56 pm PT...
Republicans are fascists #59
"I think this blog in it's new found popularity has followed suit with most other online discussions, the pack mentality reigns."
Pack mentality is grouping all Republicans together like that and parroting the fascist accusation. It is simply untrue.
Name calling is a very, very, very , very bad idea, especially when the stakes are so high as in our current battle. Using phrases like this makes one sound uninformed, and it stoops to the level of the adversary we are fighting.
As Winter pointed out, Ron Paul is not a fascist. He is very interesting. He is the only one in Congress who is advocating and end to the Federal Reserve and nationalization of our monetary system so control will be back in the people's hands.
Before you label anyone a fascist, you should study the individual case.
COMMENT #73 [Permalink]
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Teresa
said on 4/21/2005 @ 10:00 pm PT...
An important thing to keep in mind is that the Republican party is in deep trouble. We will be finding valuable allies among them in order to end this impossible regime.
COMMENT #74 [Permalink]
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Steve
said on 4/21/2005 @ 10:31 pm PT...
Republicans Are Fascists (#59)
I won't belabor the point as several other commenters have done a better job than I could at trying to suggest why we should "split hairs". I really wasn't trying to take sides. I didn't really think Dredd's comment was meant as a challenge to you and I was trying to interpret what I thought he meant. I have no problem with your on-line name and had no intention of slighting it. I have always thought it was clever with a touch of what I assumed was intended hyperbole to make a point. What has always been important to me was not your on-line name but the many excellent comments you have made on this blog. You've been a great contributor and I certainly hope you will continue to be. My apologies for any offense.