I like this part, "Accept it. Get over it." In 2005, some might argue this applies on both sides of the aisle.

However there are important issues which still need a resolution prior to 2008, and with time for testing to occur:

How do the lessons learned from Diebold get addressed with this?

What's going to be done to ensure the non-sense of 2000/2004 is put to rest?

What will it take to get the DOJ OPR off their rear end and bring some credible sanctions against those who are messing around with the American election system?

The more Americans, especially those in the RNC [my party], point to distractions like Katrina and Rita or Iraq, and don't address these issues, then the more likely people in other nations are going to have increased contempt for the US.

The US already has pissed off the world with Iraq, WMD, [blah, blah] . . . The US need to more visibly bring in people from African/Central/SouthAmerica to monitor our elections and get these voting irregularities addressed, investigated, and prosecuted, not swept under the rug.

Just one fantasy digression I cannot help: with Gore in the Oval Office, he gets reports of Al Quaida plans to strike from pretty much seamless transition, actually listens and engages in critical thought process (!), investigates, takes action and stops 9/11. What a better world we would live in now and indeed deserve to live in.

OK, now back to "what do we do now?" Work hard to take back our democracy through getting a transparent voting process. Much of the agenda for the summit here in Portland next weekend will offer practical means to do this. Those of you who attend and others, please spread the word, I will.

Just one fantasy digression I cannot help: with Gore in the Oval Office, he gets reports of Al Quaida plans to strike from pretty much seamless transition, actually listens and engages in critical thought process (!), investigates, takes action and stops 9/11. What a better world we would live in now and indeed deserve to live in.

OK, now back to "what do we do now?" Work hard to take back our democracy through getting a transparent voting process. Much of the agenda for the summit here in Portland next weekend will offer practical means to do this. Those of you who attend and others, please spread the word, I will.

Thanks, jimmy. Thanks alot. And thanks for co-chairing that bogus committee with baker, too. You're a big help.

Li'l NEWS FLASH:
"George is drinkin' again". So says Barry Levine of the Inquirer on Air America an hour or so ago. Haven't heard Randi yet but she MUST be talking about it...gotta tune in...

Whats it going to be now republicans? Al Gore won that election, even Carter says so.

Its time to put the bull to the sidewalk. We need to shovel this crap right off out of here, away with Diebold, the traitors, and every other thug in Washington.

We must end ES&S and Sequoia's strategy of BS and declare outright war on the establishment. Its time for no more dishonest elections, or wars, or both and we're going to make it happen and put it to bed for good!!!!!

READY OR NOT

But 2004 was squeaky clean, Jimmy? I don't think so and neither do you.

Trust me, folks!
George Walker Bullshit is NOT a boozer!!!!!
George Walker Bullshit is however a pot smoker!
Can't you tell by the goofy look on his face that he smokes marijuana!? And he smokes marijuana to the max! He even gets his dog stoned!
Don't take my word for it! It's in the Bible; look it up! Holy Smoke!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DUH!! Why is he admitting it now ? Why not back when it might have mattered. Besides, it's common knowledge, lots of evidence of violations of Florida Law. No investigation into the violations. No funky little commission like the Carter/Baker one.

To prevent the counting of legal votes and be allowed to count illegal votes ,is a crime in Florida.

Jeb, are you in jail yet?

"There’s no doubt in my mind that Al Gore was elected president."

Why now indeed?

Look what has happened to our country since 2001.

Just shaking my head.

Well, if he 'fell off the wagon', forget the pretzels,lets hope he gets all the liquor he wants!

Cirrhosis of the liver! That's a possibility.

At last, proof that Jimmeh Cahtuh is a delusional fool and need not be taken seriously ever again.

just more lip flapping from the past spouting the same ole crap...why even post this useless shit of information???by the way the traffic gridlog out of texas is the same snafu as the flooding in NO...whats gonna happen when lovely rita bombs ashore and the fools are stuck on the road???I say we pay Chavez to off the current administration...read or hear his speech at the UN...at least he can offer new and somewhat progressive ideas for the world,unlike his worst friend condi and her buddies...maybe fema should wait to burn the food and go ahead and send that stuff to texas...maybe they should give JACK the choice of a 6 or 10 up the backside...take the 6 and tell us the truth or the 10 and squeal like the stuck pig that you are...wait...budget cuts...for starters...how about a 50% reduction in the salaries of (as bush loves to say) the folks... in congress...wanna help hurricane victims boys?,how about 100hrs of community service work in NO... required of everyone in the current administration...yada...yada...yada...as rawstory has reported...only 2 DEMS ARE GONNA JOIN THE ANTIWAR RALLY SAT...diebold stole BOTH sides...I STILL SAY...Katrina and now Rita are the beginning of the pay back for what BUSH HAS DONE........

wait till the twins win 2016 ...picture the bush family compound on jupiter island (2020)...wake up in the morning ,go down for a coffee ...only to to see another family member (and being so polite ...family trait) you say "good morning president bush" to which you recieve a reply "good morning president bush" and then somebody else comes down from their bedroom only to repeat "good morning president bush", "good morning president bush" ah bugger it you see my point.

Is Carter kidding? What possible motive can he have for delcaring a criminal act occured years ago in Florida when there is one happening right now in Iraq?

Carter, until you call for justice for the deaths of thousands of Iraqi civilians and the almost two thousand American soldiers, you are wasting your breath and my time.

LOL, MMIIXX stop! You'll give me nightmares :shiver:

All 67 Florida counties recounted - the law under Florida's Constitution - just not multiple times so Democrat election workers and their army of lawyers and press accomplices could not eat enough chads, create enough votes, spin enough lies, call the election early enough in the Panhandle, rally enough protestors behind Jesse Jackson, disenfranchise enough absentee military ballots to steal the election.

Florida voters were so ''outraged'' by election 2000 they elected Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris, and sent Bob Butterworth, Al Gore's Florida 2000 campaign manager packing, in 2002.

You really do need to move on or put down those destructive pens. We're at war and your continuing efforts to undermine the authority of our legitimately ELECTED President is a threat to our national security, and a damn insult to the majority of your neighbors!

This isn't a game. You should thank your lucky stars that you have a CinC that takes his job, and this enemy seriously - and will not play games with our national security for the sake of power, vanity and vengeance - and if you think he would - "projection" - look it up, please, and pass it on to your peers.

No. Never. It was not the will of the people of Florida that put him in office in 2000. THAT will never change, no matter how many lies are told!

Reality? You are one delusional piece of shit ! Legitimately elected President? All 67 counties re-counted? He was never elected - he was appointed by the right-wing Supreme Court. All counties were not finished counting - the Supreme Court stopped the counting, with a big help of stonewalling by the GOP, Katherine Harris and bro' Jeb. You neglected to say that 80% of the recount was done by the MACHINES. Yeah, the Repubs were elected in 2002, but with the help of Diebold, ES & S, and of course Triad. Wonder what this world would be like without the Diebolds to count the votes and the" Reality" types to push their line of Bullshit. If there ever is an investigation into these corrupt machines, you will have to eat your words. Until then, I guess you will just have to be satisfied with the taste of Bush feces.

The reptilians and the Illuminati are in control.
Accept it and prepare to relinquish your rights
and life.

But if you saw Indendence Day the movie,
you know that there's a spirit of WIN and
DESTROY that's hanging over these bastards.

And they know it. Useless inflatable puppets
like GWB are aware of this. The next round
of 'leaders' will be interesting.

"create your own REALITY" says CinC that takes his job, and this enemy seriously ,the only thing the CinC takes seriously is the coke that goes up his nose.

PS what fricken enemy is it today ,hope they don't have WMD's as well,LOL we of the world laugh at your CinC and only wish he had the balls to sit down and answer some questions re:2000 SCOTUS,911,ToraBora,Iraq,WMD's,Katrina ....without a script without a bump on his back and most importantly WITHOUT TELLING LIES.

God Bless President Carter. He worked for (created?) Habitat for Humanity. Reagan made speeches for millions of dollars.
Although I think his Baker comission

"create your own REALITY" this guy seem to disagree with you also but what the hay he's only a Colonel in the USAAF

Can you imagine what would have happened if George W. Bush had been President during the Cuban missile Crisis”

#21 Re: Carter's part in the Baker Commission was dissapointing. Sorry. I was looking up the spelling in my hard copy Webster's

And 5 Supreme Idiots stopped the counting before many counties were done, about 20. And at least one counties re-count totals were not included when Harris certified the election results, MY COUNTY, which in 2004, went almost 2 to 1 against bush.

Stopped the counting because it would cause bush 'irreparable harm', meaning he would LOSE!

But this is peanuts, compared to what he has done since stealing the presidency.

He is NOT my President.

I was dissapointed too Colleen, I always liked him and his brother, Billy, I think his name was.

Whats he doing with the likes of Baker?

Carter's obviously been duped by smiling cobra Baker. Heck, he is quite old. So he comes around 5 years late and speaks out on behalf of Gore. Maybe he'll denounce his own commission's findings in 2010 to the flaming, bankrupt husk that was America.

We certainly can't put any stock in Carter, nor in Russ Feingold after the Roberts vote today. How stupid are Democrats? Don't they get it yet? Feingold and the other two Dems who voted for this guy are traitors to America and their party.

Nana #24

He is no ones president. His position in history will be described as that of a charlatan and stooge who was the frontman for an insidious cancer which had silently and compeletly creeped into the political machinations of a gullible America. The only question remaining is how brief is the life of this disease, and more importantly how far we will we go to eradicate it and insure its complete and abosolute remission?

Revolution.....? Count me in!

The picture of Carter and Baker tells a lot. I don't question Carter's basic goodness, but doesn't he know that Baker is a key - maybe the key figure in installing an illegitimate executive branch? That Baker's history - even prior to 2000 -shows clearly that his primary interest is in using dishonesty and sleaze to undermine representative democracy and the electoral system and smooth the way for the "success" of a minority political viewpoint?

The man should be ostracized, not legitimized. I guess Carter can serve as a representation of what the hell is wrong with the Democrats, although he says a few more interesting things than most. But it all amounts to the same thing - too late, too little, and just not "getting" the real democracy thing. (Meanwhile having a few laughs - heh heh - with the likes of Baker.)

I don't understand any of this, McCain kissing up to Bush after the black child Rove lie. Clinton kissing up to Bush (makes me sick) and now Carter, ohmigod....what does this evil regime have on these people. Have they all sold their soul or so afraid of Rove they have become 'pretenders' as the so called President. M4 aka: Alice N. Wunderland

Count me in too Sam! In the future I will look at things much different, much less trusting, so I guess lessons have been learned, but oh the cost.

MMIIXX, OMG, scary doesn't begin to describe it! It will be awhile before I get that vision out of my head. Col Bowman is right, it is treason, and they are all guilty.

MERIFOUR three answers to your comment #29

1) $
2) $
3) $

I think it's called 'two-faced back-stabbing', maybe it's a political prerequisite. I don't think they see things the way most do.

Will America ever get a real leader? Who will win the race next? Hillary Clinton? If so, you might has well let George Bush in the office for EIGHT more years, because the Clinton and Bush families are all buddy-buddy.

#31 of course...and here I was thinking something more sinister with my tin foil hat on...LOL.
P.S. Anyone familiar with Bonus 3392-181. Very interesting story if true (Note: you MUST have a tin foil hat to check this out).

It's late, so I'll try to be brief:

"Reality", I wish it were possible to somehow get the passionate, good hearted - but tragically misinformed hard-core Bushitters to sniff the smelling salts instead of our Little Lord Fauntleroy's skidmarked boxers, but alas, there may be no hope for you at all.

By now, any Republican with ANY connection with things like critical thought or deductive reasoning has come to realize that this sick, twisted, pampered, alcoholic, sociopathic APPOINTEE to the Presidency has caused an incredible amount of damage to our country.

They finally know that Bush is -at best- an embarassment, and at worst, every bit the puppet of the most craven, immoral, bloodthirsty-yet cowardly and shameless group of race-baiting thieves the MAJORITY OF VOTERS SAID THEY WERE IN THE LAST 2 ELECTIONS!!

I hope to see them all on trial at the Hague as the vile war criminals they are. I hate them and what they've done to my America.

Comment #35-

Well said! I'll second your thoughts.

Carter is stepping up. Give him credit, he has had the most hair throughout the Bush masquerade. Few people of his stature have spoken up as he has.

God is NOT an Asshole

{ed note: multiple post, deleted.}

{ed note: Multiple post, deleted}

Sorry about the multiple posts. I don't know how that happened. {ed note: It's ok! Multiple posts have now been deleted. }

Sam and Nana,

"Revolution.....? Count me in!"

Go for it. It's a well known fact that a lot of us republicans have hunting weapons. Saturday night specials against rifles would be a slaughter. At least we won't be spending as much on welfare anymore.

I laugh at all your stupid conspiracy theories. Yeah, Diebold stole the election? Show me proof!!! Show me the phone records proving calls were made to the election machines telephone modems during the election. Put up or shut up!!!

One million black voters were disenfranchised in the 2000 election??? Maybe they were. But the spoilage rates were higher for white republicans and 50 times higher for black republicans in Florida. Where is your outcry about that? Liberals will disregard any facts you don't like.

Nonvoted Ballots and Discrimination in Florida
John R. Lott, Jr.
ABSTRACT
The report by the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights on the presidential vote in Florida during the 2000 general election presents two types of empirical evidence that African Americans were systematically denied the right to vote. To reach their conclusion that discrimination had occurred, the commission examined the impact of race on spoiled (or nonvoted) ballot rates as well as the impact of race on the exclusion of voters from eligibility lists because of
past felony criminal records. Using extremely detailed cross-sectional data collected by USA Today and less detailed panel data, I find that to the extent that these types of regressions measure discrimination, it is African-American Republicans who were harmed. Indeed, the nonvoted ballot rate for white Republicans is higher than for white or African-American
Democrats. The data also indicate that nonvoted ballot rates are highest in those counties where Democrats are the election supervisors...
http://www.johnrlott.com...ott_on_Fla_2000_Elec.pdf

We are not a government "of the people, by the people and for the people" any longer. Our country is run by big business and a handful of the elite who cheat, lie, and even kill to get what they want. Wake up, America, we're the walking dumb who have let our way of life slip between our fingers in the name of security. What would our founding fathers think of us now? Everyone who has a mind that is capable of thinking recognizes that the American people do not elect Presidents now-the Electoral College does and it can be bought!

White Republicans? A "nonvoted ballot rate?" What in the world is that? Is it being suggested that Democratic election officials in Florida failed to count Republican votes? That absentee ballots were thrown out? That business executives were turned away from the polls?

What kind of gobbledegook is this? Have any white Republicans complained that their votes weren't counted? There's concrete evidence of black voters being disenfranchised in the last two presidential elections...in sufficient numbers to have changed the outcome in both cases (separate and apart from the electronic fraud). There's no evidence that white voters were similarly cheated, except this strange analysis by John Lott.

Is he Trent Lott's brother? What are his qualifications for arriving at conclusions that are in direct contrast to the evidence?

Jimmy Carter is right, of course. Al Gore won the 2000 election. We already knew that, in fact. What we don't know (maybe Mr. Carter can educate us) is why he came out with this statement after publicly declaring that James Baker, who more than any single person was responsible for stopping the recount in Florida, is his "favorite Republican?" If Gore won the election, and Baker was instrumental in preventing Gore from taking office, how can Baker be anything but a pariah and a threat to our democratic system?

I like Jimmy Carter. But I think he's having too many senior moments to remain in public life.

Robert,

It's easy. They compared voter spoilage in each precinct. Say that a precint had a medium income of $115,000 that voted heavily for Bush and had a rejection rate of 7%. Compare that to a heavily democratic precinct that had a rejection rate of 5%. It's all in the report if you read it. It's amazing that this gobbledegook is rubbish but the same sort of gobblegook is taken as gosple when it comes to election polls and your false belief that Bush stole the election.

http://www.usatoday.com/...ewer-voting-errors_x.htm

The primary cause of voter error in Florida in 2000 was poor ballot design, a USA TODAY study found. Problems were concentrated in counties that listed the 10 presidential candidates on two pages or in two columns. That prompted thousands of voters to vote twice — once on each page or once in each column.

Who designed those ballots? Who approved the ballots for use??? Well, who cares that democrats did!!! It's all Bush's fault!!!

This is exactly why John Roberts should not be appointed to the Supreme Court in any capacity..he was also in league with Jeb Bush (legal consultant) in the theft of the 2000 presidential elections....no medal of freedom, his reward will be a lifetime appointment as Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.....(but he isn't a right wing idealogue, just ask him..) Hey, didn't I read somewhere that Patrick Fitzgerald was also looking into the theft of the 2000 election, along with Plamegate..? Maybe John Roberts will be impeached for high crimes before he is sworn in...?

How easily you folks forget. Many a Democrat was happy that Al Gore was not president in 2000 because 911 would have still happened and then the Clinton 8 years previous would have been heavily investigated - What did they know? When did they know it? Why did they not get Laden when they had the chance? How come they could not stop it? It would have been a bloody mess.

I have been thinking about something and you guys are going to fall on the floor laughing hysterically. Why does Bush keep using Clinton and his dad in these relief efforts? Why does Clinton then criticize the younger Bush? Why does Bush keep Clinton around? Why doesn't Bush lash out at his critics?

I know the answer - Bush is a Uniter, Clinton is a divider. The Democrats are dividers. John Roberts is so much more brilliant than any of the senators yet some Demo senators would not vote for him. Why? They are dividers.

I know his is a uniter because of Bob Bullock in Texas. This man was a partisan Democrat yet he liked Bush and respected him. That was in Texas though, where Democrats are more like Republicans, where Bush was a uniter.

Do you guys realize just how important Texas is in the national landscape?

Bush, Delay, Cheney (at one time), 28% of our gas comes from Texas refineries, 42% of our natural gas comes from Texas, and the price of oil is based on West Texas Sweet Crude.

I agree with you guys on one point - Carter is our best "EX" president.

What I like about this post is that someone like Rush or Sean said you guys are still fighting the 2000 election. And they are right.

Amerikkka....... the United Snakes

U R ..........Fucked! wake Up!

It was downhill from Reagan and Arnie is on the way.

Now a goon called Dubya.....What more can I say

they say people get the leader they deserve
Amrerican dream? really? - what a nerve!

Docile as sheep instead of being outraged
At 911 terror that was definatly staged

To Satan you did bow

and it's time for judgement now

Keep munching on your supersize me feast
your boys creating mayhem in the middle east

Out from chaos will come good?
Only in your Hollywood

Made a show of democracy and with aplomb
But the truth is out on votescam.com
.

One more thing, Gore lost the election in 2000 becuase he could not win his own state of TN with it's 11 electoral votes. He could have won his state if he didn't change. He had to change for a national election. What change am I talking about?

If he would have stayed pro-life and pro-guns which are two reasons he was elected in his state. His state no longer knew him because he had changed from a conservative-Democrat to a liberal environmental wacko Democrat. Don't get me wrong. I love Gore and Clinton. I love Kennedy, Schumer, Leahy, Hilary, and all of the other leftist Dems. I loved Daschle and kind of miss him

NuclearChemist,
...USA Today is owned by Gannett Company, a CJR conglomerate.....follow the money

Time: late fall of 2003, I had made up my mind not to vote. I 'opted out' returned a 'request for a donation' to my state Democratic party and told them to take me off their mailing list. I told them what I thought of everything happening in our govt.
(I became an independment when Perot came on the scene because it was obvious to me that both parties were corrupt and we needed a three party system.) When the 2000 selection happened I was so upset that I donated to the Democrats and viola became a Democrat I guess.

I got a personal hand written letter from the chairman (yes I did verify his handwriting) asking me to please reconsider. I was really struck by the fact they he would write to me, a nobody, and ask me to change my mind and vote. I rarely, if ever, get responses anymore to my letters to Congress.
His letter did not change my mind.

One day a young man, very young, early twenties,
called me and asked if I would vote. I ranted and raved about our corrupt system and he listened politely and then said that he had just had the same conversation with his mother. He was so sweet and so involved and really truly believed in our system. He asked me please, at least just vote for president. I finally agreed that I would. The Deibold info was alreading being talked about but I voted anyway, for my young friend and because I promised him I would. The rest is history.

I do not blame bushco for everything but see them as a powerful tool for a cabal that is Global. I believe both parties are corrupt, a new third party was a threat to the status quo. I do not see the world in black and white. I believe the LIES are always peppered with a bit of truth so that the unsuspecting public can zero in on what is true and swallow the whole whale. The key in discernment. I try to read between the line/lies and somehow get to the real truth.

I can see the direction this Country is heading and I am heartbroken. I knew it was coming. I saw the Gulf War of '91 as the beginning of something much bigger and supported the impeachment of '41 during that time. Henry Gonzales of the Senate banking Committee was calling for impeachment and I was all over it. He was a voice crying in the wilderness.

I see Conyers as the new voice of the people. A few others in Congress are standing up, a brave and couragous stand in lieu of the fact that they have all done deeds they need to be ashamed of. Congress sold out the people by giving Bush their power and we now live in a Country I don't even recognize anymore. Can 'we the people' destroy the monster we have created...it has many tentacles. Time will tell.

..NuclearChemist said on 9/23/2005 @ 8:02am "The primary cause of voter error in Florida in 2000 was poor ballot design, a USA TODAY study found. ...
Who designed those ballots? Who approved the ballots for use??? Well, who cares that democrats did!!!"

Incidentally, your last sentence is a question, so it should end with a "?".

Teresa Lapore (sp) was a Republican who registered as a Democrat to get the job. This is evidenced by the fact that after the 2000 election she changed her registration back to Republican. She was nothing but a snake in the grass.

Similarly there were/are Democrats in Ohio on the elections boards who take their orders from Republicans. They even told the Ohio Democratic Party they wouldn't take orders from Dems.

Seems the Republicans like to masquerade as Dems to screw up our political system. I wonder if they did that in the Iowa caucuses to prevent Howard Dean from winning.

#50 - Henry Gonzales of the Senate banking Committee was calling for impeachment and I was all over it. He was a voice crying in the wilderness.

God, I loved the man. Day after day he stood up there, often to an empty or practically empty chamber, doggedly telling the country what was happening. Yes, we didn't catch it then (and many didn't want to know, I'm afraid) and are paying the consequences.

NUKE

You have some very strange thought processes for a scientist.
I don't own a gun. I don't fear you or your gun. Lies and indifference frighten me.

And there you go changing the subject again. Five supreme court idiots stopped the legal counting of votes in Florida. Not all counties did a recount, for example Duval, check it out with Corinne Brown (D-FL)
Harris certified the election results before the LEGAL recount was complete. These are the facts.

bush was selected, not elected.

FYI - this is not new for Carter. I've seen him say the 2000 election was wrongly awarded before.

And one more FYI: while the Supreme Court can be said to have handed the election to Bush in intent, they did not do so in fact - the case they reversed was only for a recount of four counties, and even had they been counted, a later recount funded by the media showed, Gore would still have lost.

Other scenarios would have seen Gore win, including a staewide count-all-the-votes recount, or of course if the screwup on the 'butterfly ballot' that caused so many Gore voters to vote for Buchanan not happened.

Nu chem is probably KKKrove's Johnny Gosh

Nana,

No, Bush was elected. An auditing firm went back and did the recount. In using the most liberal standard, the Palm Beach method and the hanging chad count, Bush won. Kerry only won (by 3 votes) if clean punches were counted. Later on, the overvotes were checked (which Kerry or the Florida Supreme court hadn't requested). Kerry would have won with the most liberal standard, and the Palm Beach standard. If the normal standard or the clean ballot was used, Bush won. And that's not even taking into account the Lame Stream Media telling Floridians that the polls were closed an hour early in the panhandle disenfranchising tens of thousands of Bush voters.

At some point you got to have a reality check and say sooooooooo wut. The regulars around here know both elections were rigged. The Bushit administration thinks they are smarter than us. That's right no stutter. The cheating lying losers are still in the White House and still have pushed though all their Bushit legislation and rule all three branches of government. Add in the fact they run the corporately owned mass media and that at least half this country believes their BUSHIT, and what you get the worst US government in history with no immediate end or court proceedings in site. Thanks Jimmy.

Markh,

"Teresa Lapore (sp) was a Republican who registered as a Democrat to get the job. This is evidenced by the fact that after the 2000 election she changed her registration back to Republican. She was nothing but a snake in the grass."

Excuse me??? The last thing I heard, ballots have to be approved by the local board. Are you saying that they were all republicans too???

"Similarly there were/are Democrats in Ohio on the elections boards who take their orders from Republicans. They even told the Ohio Democratic Party they wouldn't take orders from Dems."

Oh, so they wouldn't take orders to stuff the ballots so these locally elected officials had to be republicans. How sad for you that your pathetic conspiracy theories have no truth to them.

How about this for a theory? Americans are tired of liberals failed policies, liberals having no sense of direction to take this country, and liberals are yellow bellied cowards when it comes to taking on militant islam.

Paul and Nuclear Chemist -

Y'all sure spend a lot of time hanging here for people trying to convince us that we don't matter.

Who are y'all REALLY trying to convince?

;-)

> Who are y'all REALLY trying to convince?

We are just making fun of you!!!!!!!

If Gore and Bush tied, the Republican state house would have given it to Bush. If it went to the US House, the Republicans would have given it to Bush.

SCOTUS got involved because the Florida court was changing election rules on how to count ballots after an election. We have rules and laws to handle this kind of stuff.

NuclearChemist is correct in all of his statements.

Do you guys think this has never happened before?

1876 - Hayes vs Tilden

THE CRITICS CHARGE: In this election, critics say the system failed because even though Samuel Tilden had a substantial lead over Rutherford B. Hayes in the popular vote, he still lost by one electoral vote.

BACKGROUND: On election night, it appeared that Tilden would win. He led the popular vote 51% to 48%, and led in the Electoral College vote 184-165 with 20 votes still undecided. Tilden only needed one vote to win; Hayes needed all 20. Both parties claimed the disputed votes (Florida's 4 votes, Louisiana's 8 votes, South Carolina's 7 votes, and 1 of Oregon's 3 votes). An Electoral Commission was set up by Congress, who awarded all 20 votes, and the presidency, to Hayes

WHY THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE SHOULDN'T BE BLAMED: The 1876 election was filled with so many irregularities, that blaming the Electoral College seems ridiculous. First off, Colorado had just joined the union and decided they didn't have enough money to hold an election so their legislature just sent three electoral votes for Hayes. Secondly, fraud abounded in the states of Florida, Louisiana, and South Carolina. Democrats intimidated blacks in order to keep them from voting, and Republicans, backed by armed troops, got as many blacks as possible to vote, as many times as they could. It's impossible to say who would have legitimately won these states, but most scholars agree Tilden would have won Louisiana and Florida, and Hayes would have won South Carolina. Lastly, the Electoral Commission set up by Congress is not part of the normal Electoral College system. It was composed of 8 Republicans and 7 Democrats who voted along political lines to give all the votes to Hayes. It turns out that the Republicans had secretly made a deal with the Democrats. If the Democrats would accept the results of the Electoral Commission, the Republicans would end Reconstruction in the South.

CONCLUSION: To say the Electoral College failed in 1876 is incorrect, because without the rampant fraud in the South OR without a biased Electoral Commission that voted on partisan lines the popular vote winner, Tilden, probably would have won the electoral vote as well.

Nuclear, you are so full of crap, I bet your eyes are brown.

And it was Gore that was cheated out of the presidency in 2000.

Paul - Well now THAT's productive *L*

Um..then why aren't your posts funny?

(Actually I think you're here because we're a lot more fun than those stuffy ol' right wing sites - face it, you just like our company

Wow...sounds like you've got a whole lot of time on your hands with a whole lot of nothing to do.

Hey, I've got an idea - why don't you make yourself useful, prove you're not just paying lip service - join up and go to Iraq! Let us know where you are, we'll send you care packages and letters.

At the very least, get a hobby - the V.A. sure could use some volunteers.

Right now you're just taking up space, and from everything we've witnessed, it sure looks like you'd rather just sit on your butt and bitch than be a part of the solution.

GET BUSY!!!

> Hey, I've got an idea - why don't you make yourself useful, prove you're not just paying lip service - join up and go to Iraq! Let us know where you are, we'll send you care packages and letters.

How many times do I have to answer this - I am too old for the military ya dork.

> it sure looks like you'd rather just sit on your butt and bitch than be a part of the solution.

I am part of the solution. My guys won!

Why do you hate America?

# 56 - First of all Nukular - Kerry did not run against Bush in 2000 - It was Gore, you f#*ing idiot, and yes, he was appointed to office by the Republican Supreme Court. The votes were never fully re-counted, thanks to the stonewalling of Harris and the intervention of the Supremes and you neglect to say that 80% of the votes in Florida were counted with the Diebold, Triad and ES&S machines.

Yes, Henry Gonzales was a truly great man that went unapppreciated in his day. I think Reps. Conyers and McKinney and a few others (mostly Congressional Black Caucus members interestingly) are Henry's worthy successors. Let's support them with all our hearts.

Paul, you are too old to serve in Iraq? Bullshit, they just took a retired Captain, age 71, into active service. A desk job, no doubt, but he is serving, nevertheless. You are merely a coward hiding behind his computer, probably afraid to confront anyone face to face. I've seen many of them like you, big mouths from a distance, but chicken shits up close. I served two deployments in Nam and you sir, are probably one of the types who would have been fragged by his own men.

Robert,

Yeah, I know it was Gore and not Kerry, it was a misprint. I'm sure you've never done that. What does it matter what type of machines they were counted on. Don't you think he would have won by a larger amount if the fix was in? The votes were never recounted?
http://en.wikipedia.org/...sidential_election,_2000

After the election, USA Today, the Miami Herald, and Knight Ridder commissioned accounting firm BDO Seidman to count undervotes, that is, ballots which did not register any vote when counted by machine. BDO Seidman's results, reported in USA Today [6], show that under the strictest standard, where only a cleanly punched ballot with a fully removed chad was counted, Gore won by three votes. Under all other standards, Bush won, with Bush's margin increasing as looser standards were used. The standards considered by BDO Seidman were:

* Lenient standard. Any alteration in a chad, ranging from a dimple to a full punch, counts as a vote. By this standard, Bush won by 1,665 votes.
* Palm Beach standard. A dimple is counted as a vote if other races on the same ballot show dimples as well. By this standard, Bush won by 884 votes.
* Two-corner standard. A chad with two or more corners removed is counted as a vote. This is the most common standard in use. By this standard, Bush won by 363 votes.
* Strict standard. Only a fully removed chad counts as a vote. By this standard, Gore won by 3 votes.

Including overvotes in the above totals for undervotes gives