I guess a prudent person treads carefully. How maddening, though! To hear someone tiptoe so cautiously, so slowly, while it all continues, all the carnage, all the madness, all the BULLSHIT, all the damage, all the death!!!!!

"In our system, there’s no intermediate step between a definitive Supreme Court decision and violent revolution."

Is it me, or is that a weird statement?

Unfortunately, Al did not have another card to play in 2000. Sandra Day will be remembered as the person who enabled this dysfunctional and dangerous administration. We now know what happens when ignorance and incompetence are combined with arrogance and paranoia.

Unfortunately, Al did not have another card to play in 2000. Sandra Day was the person who enabled this dysfunctional and dangerous administration. We now know what happens when ignorance and incompetence are combined with arrogance and paranoia.

#1 - I would read his statement to mean that he feels the next step is violent revolution and he is not ready to initiate that step yet. We will continue to wallow, as you say, in the carnage, madness, bullshit, death, etc. until we are ready to take the next step. Nothing will or can happen to change things for the better until then.

Pretty depressing but similar thoughts and feelings have gelling in my head for some time now. I just keep hoping for and searching for another way out.

Don't Get Mad . . . . Get Even . . .

Onyx,
Yes, I guess that is how it took it. I can't see it ACTUALLY happening. We are still too comfortable, too.....ah, you know.
And yeah, they've been gelling in my head, too.

Truth Seeker, how right you are. S.D.O'Connor will go down in history (the REAL history, if and when it ever gets written) as the woman who did more damage to democracy than any other. And people are so timid about saying it, as if her status as a "woman" on the bench puts her above reproach.

AL (finally) Gets it ! ( publicly)

Luckily the second amendment and the NRA have prepared us well for this moment and this task.

All we need is a legitimate and charismatic leader

Al qualifies on both counts.

We need bumperstickers and billboards saying

" AL GORE WAS ROBBED!"
" DEMAND RESTITUTION"

and

" WOULD IT ALL BE SUCH A MESS
IF AL WAS PREZ THE LAST FIVE YEARS?"

#10 HAHAHAH HAAAAH HAAAAAAAH!!!!! Oh yeah, and HAH!

Give me a break. There was probably a fix, but Al Gore wasn't in on it. He maybe could have done better (and no doubt is kicking himself), but I don't see him playing the role of "lackey." At that time there was many things to consider, and it was a confusing and tense time. I wish Al Gore would run again, and win. He would be a great president, maybe even better than Clinton.

Let's make something really clear so that it doesn't keep getting repeated:

Al Gore didn't win his homestate because Tennessee is one of the most racist states in the nation and a majority of citizens who voted didn't like the fact that Gore's campaign manager was a Black woman (Donna Brazile). So quit repeating the myth about the homestate! Tennessee sucks and I wouldn't have been proud to have won it considering how bad it is. By not winning the state it showed that he wasn't attracting the racists and bigots.

I've been to Tennessee and I've seen the blatant racism, mostly against Blacks. Try visiting Memphis or Nashville sometime. The whites are mostly moronic and backward. So, again, drop the bullshit about the "homestate."

The words "violent revolution" couldn't carry a clearer message. The message is, "I had to choose between accepting the Supreme Court decision or encouraging my supporters to claim a stolen election through violence." Whether that was the real choice he faced or not, Gore would never have chosen those words without having believed the election was in fact stolen. So the answer must be "yes."

But saying the Supreme Court stole it, while not incorrect, is only part of the story. It never would have come to that if the vote hadn't been rigged. The same techniques which the Republicans used to steal the 2004 election were already in use in 2000...flipped votes, under-allocation of voting machines to minority districts, illegal removal of eligible voters from the rolls, throwing out of legally cast ballots, intimidation of voters, dirty tricks. This is the real story of the 2000 election, because once they got away with everything, it was a no-brainer to repeat them in 2004 (with a few improvements).

Al Gore had a third choice in 2001, between accepting Bush's inauguration and calling for a violent revolution. He could have made a public speech; if I had written it for him it would have begun this way:

"Honest elections are the right and privilege of every voter...Republican, Democrat, and Independent. I'd rather that this speech have been delivered by someone else, because it will appear to many that I'm speaking out of wounded self-interest. I will be called a sore loser, a poor sport, and a disloyal American for what I'm about to say.

The election was fraudulent. George W. Bush is not entitled to take office, any more than a burglar is entitled to stolen property. The votes weren't stolen from me, mind you...they were stolen from the American people, who deserve to have them back."

Etc., etc. If Gore had done this, Bush would still have been inaugurated and Gore would have been excoriated as a sore loser, poor sport, disloyal American, etc. But the 2004 election couldn't have been stolen, because Gore's words would still have lingered in the minds of his supporters. The DNC would not have been able to ignore evidence of fraud in 2004 (as it did, and as most prominent Democrats continue to do), because it would have been a case of "Fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me."

In other words, Al Gore was more afraid of ending his own political career, and facing the "slings and arrows of outrageous political fortune (and by so doing end them)..." than he was willing to stand up for a higher purpose. Gore's Hamlet moment came and went without a soliloquy, and the American people, and our political system, have suffered for 5-1/2 years because of Gore's weakness.

Either the election of 2000 was stolen from Al Gore or it was not.

If the election was not stolen from Al Gore in 2000, then he should shut up about it already, let it die, and come back and run in 2008 or 2012.

If the election was in fact stolen from him, he should be ashamed of himself for taking six years to get to the point where he has to "frame it more carefully".

Had an election been stolen from George Washington, Harry Truman, Dwight Eisenhower, or Teddy Roosevelt, do you think they would have sat by silently, or do you think they would have made a stand for American democracy at whatever cost to their own political fortune?

Twenty seven thousand largely African-American votes in Duval County were never counted and Gore raised not a peep about that, and most of those votes were his! One hundred seventy five thousand largely African-American votes were thrown away in Cleveland in 2004, and Gore says nothing. If he were to run again in 2008, do you think that his opponents will be shamed into playing by the rules and counting all the votes accurately this time? Then ask yourself if he cannot stand up to people who hijack democracy right here in the United States, what will he do when confronted by a bellicose foreign leader abroad?

Gore is out of politics, and rightly so. He proved in 2000 that he does best from the sidelines. Let him stay there in 2008.

well said #13. there is a place between the supreme court and violent revolution, where we walk with martin luther king.

Well said, #13. However, I would add that I think Mr. Gore may be saying that in every case the supreme court decides, not just election 2000, if the supreme court makes a wrong decision the next step is violent revolution.

I, personally, am there. Although I have never committed a violent act. In my thoughts I am there as never before. I feel myself in the shoes of Patrick Henry fighting for our country. I feel myself in the shoes of Benjamin Franklin fighting for our country. I have said to my spouse more than once that I am ready to defend our country. Not by fighting in unjust wars and killing innocent people, no I am ready to fight here to renew our ideals. I weep for our country.

I am going to go where I shouldn't on this one: armchair psychology.

Gore is, despite what critics have said, a man of principle. That does not mean he is necessarily courageous nor does it mean he is totally consistent. But he does strive to stay on course, and he does have a strenght that is also his weakness--he believes in the US System of government of which he is descendant and creature. Critics are half-right to say he is no different from many an inbred Washington politico. He has certainly been raised in the ethos of Washington like many others of his generation. And he was around the power of the Kennedy's and Johnson's during his formative years, not to mention his own Dad the Senator from Tennessee.

I think he has carried that legacy self-consciously and has had to reconcile it with the more troubled conditions of our time. He wants to believe, and he wants to make it right. He sees it all in the long view of legacy--and that includes all the political history he knows from Washington to the present.

I am not surprised by his self-conscious selection of words for what most of us would regard as a simpler question of stolen vs not stolen. He feels bound to be careful as a public figure because he knows public figures are the folks who get tagged with historical credit or blame, whether they deserve it or not. Gore wants to be on the "good side" but he is hyper about the pitfalls. He's encountered enough of them to be skittish.

Paul Revere - re: #12 - You're using a very broad brush to paint an entire population, based on your interaction with a very small percentage of the people who live here. Although your experiences in Tennessee were obviously not of the pleasant variety, don't judge all of us by the ones you encountered. It sounds like there is a side of Tennessee that you missed entirely, and that's a real shame.

The majority of the people I know who voted for George W. Bush voted for him because they were extremely angry at Bill Clinton, and at Al Gore by association, for "immoral conduct". Adultery is still HUGE on the sin meter here - if the locals had their way, adulterers would be publicly stoned. And they were NOT HAPPY AT ALL that the words "oral sex" appeared on the front pages of newspapers - it's one of those things that is never discussed in polite company.

Our southern culture is deeply rooted in Christianity - I assume the rest of the country knows this, but you can't know the full impact until you've lived it. (Stories, oh yes, I have LOTS of stories) And I know it's supposed to be illegal because of the constraints placed by tax exemptions, but the preachers and churches had EVERYTHING to do with who won and who lost the state of Tennessee. Bill Clinton had become the symbol for all that is wicked in our government - and Christians here were determined to take it back in the name of God.

Here in the south, Bush was successfully painted as a "man of God". And in an area that plays gospel music over the speakers in grocery stores and Walmart, where one of the first things people ask when they meet you is "Where do you go to church?", and where it's a GIVEN that the Ten Commandments will be posted in public places, ESPECIALLY in the public schools, George W. Bush was exactly the kind of person they were looking for. They believed he'd bring mandatory prayer back into the schools, make abortion illegal, and protect their marriages by making sure homosexuals couldn't legally join in marriage or civil unions.

Though I won't disagree that there is a good deal of racism here in Tennessee - with Biblical basis, according to certain preachers - that is NOT what cost Al Gore the election here.

Trust me, I've dealt with this my entire life. The RRR (Radical Religious Right) is MUCH more powerful and outspoken than the KKK in Tennessee.

BTW, I don't know where you went in Nashville, but it sounds like you may have hit during "Fanfare" or something, or just wound up in the wrong areas at the wrong time. There are alternatives to the redneck scene - let me know next time you go, I'll see what I can find out for you. (Someone who lives closer to Nashville can tell you more, I don't get there as often as I'd like)

And if you ever come through this way again, visit The Farm in Summertown (www.thefarm.org). If you go to work as an apprentice in the Ecovillage, you can stay there for a month or more. Details are on the website.

Sorry for the off topic y'all, it's just something close to my heart.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled blogging....

Trust me, I've dealt with this my entire life. The RRR (Radical Religious Right) is MUCH more powerful and outspoken than the KKK in Tennessee.

Byrd tell you that directly?

BTW, until you posted it, I didn't know who Al Gore's campaign manager was - and I'd venture to say, neither did most of the other people who voted for OR against him. It just wasn't a consideration.

Ricky - No sweety, go back and read it again, and try to focus. I said I've LIVED with it, all of my life.

I don't listen to talking points - I talk to people around me, I keep my eyes and ears open, and I think for myself.

Maybe you should try that sometime.

'Gore sighs. "In our system, there’s no intermediate step between a definitive Supreme Court decision and violent revolution."'

Bush is violently over throwing our country over there,
so he doesn't have to violently over throw us over here...
except for that 9/11 part...
so far...
oh, and in the near future, those detention camps
dick Cheney's Hellsaburpin are building for us.

Somehow I knew my friend Kestrel would defend her home state (as a "volunteer" spokesperson).

The RRR (radical religious right) is indeed powerful in the Bible Belt. But it's also a huge factor in rural areas of Northern states...Ohio being the best example, but only one. The fact that Bush got close enough in Ohio to steal the state in 2004 can be attributed to a shotgun marriage of religion and politics that enabled Bush to present himself as an avenging archangel of Clinton's sins, sent by God to cleanse a diseased American culture.

People actually believe this dopey shit. American culture is diseased, all right, but that's the fault of television, corporate welfare, low educational standards, worship of celebrities as role-models, two-income families that rob children of leadership,
and a general anti-intellectual bias nationwide. Politicians didn't create the problem...they've just pretended it isn't one, and George W. Bush is the ultimate by-product of our loss of standards.

If God gave us Bush, as the RRR believes, then God is a fool. God can't be a fool, but the RRR is.

As someone who volunteered on many election camaigns when I lived in Florida, I can say that Al Gore did all he coud to save democracy in America short of starting a civil war. He has it exactly right. The real blame belongs with the Bush election stealers who shredded both Florida law and the U.S. constitution to thwart the will of the people and steal the 2000 election. More blame belongs with the pathetic leadership of the democrats in Congress and at the Democratic party. They abandoned Al Gore and hid in their cushy, ivory, Washington towers in 2000 and since and allowed Bush to wreek his havoc much in the way the German parliment allowed Hitler to wreek his madness on Germany and the world in the 1930's. I fear that istory is oce agai repeating itself.

Wow, KBE!
With all due respect, I know your comments were meant as a heartfelt DEFENSE of Tennessee, but I gotta say your post kinda made me laugh! (don't be pissed, now!)

I'm glad to know all that. If I ever go to Tennessee again, I'll be sure to keep my mouth shut! I mean, damn!
I may not be an adulterer but I don't think I'd last an hour there before they stoned me as a godless heathen!!

#18
Gore was swiftboated in Tennessee far worse than McCain was in S.C. When I talk to people around Celina Tennessee they tell me thing about Gore I know to be lies.
By the way how is your tennaid?

Hindsight is always helpful.

I have a huge amount of respect for Al Gore, and if allowed to be Al Gore, I believe he would be the best candidate the Democrats could offer in 2008. H ehas Washington experience and he has been out of the beltway for all of the horrendous years since 2001.

One thing I know about Al Gore is that he does not choose his words lightly, including "violent revolution." No, I do not think those words peculiar in the least.

We are living in a failed Democracy, from which fascism, albeit uniquely American, is budding rapidly.

It always strikes me as odd that Americans always want to criticize leaders, of both parties, when we ought to be taking repsonsibility for the failed state in which we live. How many of us would have flown into the streets, ready for revolution if Gore had gone along with Boxer and contested the 2000 election? I cannot honestly say that I would have.

But I can say this, in complete honesty and with a commitment I do not believe I have ever felt before:

I am ready now, to do whatever it takes, and I do mean, WHATEVER!

I have marched, protested, emailed my fingers off, called elected officials until I am sick of them all, damn near; I have signed petitiions, worked to get out the vote, raised money and talked 'til I am blue in the face about the nightmare in which we find ourselves.

Anyone who still believes that they have anything to lose is a fool. Our Declaration of Independence not only gives us the right, but the responsibility to resist tyranny with whatever means necessary.

I hope to God that we can find a way to win back our Democracy without violence, as I am against violence, especially against people.

Nevertheless, we are as responsible for this mess as anyone in Washington. I feel sure that it will be up to us to either turn things around or cause/allow the whole rotten system to collapse under the weight of its own corruption.

The targets of whatever revolution is to come will not only be the government, but its greedy, sociopathic, corporate puppetmasters as well. There is absolutely no difference between the Bush government and corporate America.

It is going to take whatever it takes. It is time to decide. Another election is just around the corner. What are we willing to do, if the now familiar signs of a stolen election are once again present? That is a question we need to be asking ourselves now, not after it happens.

nnnnnnnnnn

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

As someone who volunteered on many election camaigns when I lived in Florida, I can say that Al Gore did all he coud to save democracy in America short of starting a civil war. He has it exactly right. The real blame belongs with the Bush election stealers who shredded both Florida law and the U.S. constitution to thwart the will of the people and steal the 2000 election. More blame belongs with the pathetic leadership of the democrats in Congress and at the Democratic party. They abandoned Al Gore and hid in their cushy, ivory, Washington towers in 2000 and since and allowed Bush to wreek his havoc much in the way the German parliment allowed Hitler to wreek his madness on Germany and the world in the 1930's. I fear that istory is oce agai repeating itself.

Whether you blame Gore or the Democratic party (I would blame both, equally), the central point is clear: By not forcefully opposing the Supreme Court, and by not declaring openly that Bush's election in 2000 was a fraud, Gore and his fellow Democrats allowed 2004 to happen when it could not have happened had they spoken out in 2001.

Kerry's sin was worse than Gore's, because by the time 2004 rolled around much more was known about what the Republicans had done four years earlier. Kerry was like a man whose house had been robbed, yet he didn't call the police, didn't install a burglar alarm, didn't care who the robbers were, but gave them a road map for their escape.

#17 Gtash,
I believe you've got it right. To us, to anyone not very closely involved in the nightmare of election 2000, it may look like "What the hell has he been DOING the last 6 years?" Hindsight is always 20/20. It's easy to say "Why didn't he do THIS?" or "How could he NOT have done THAT?" We're not in the man's skin. But the speech he gave last year (was it at NYU ?) took guts. And he was anything but "wooden". I think he may be a changed man.

There are still a hell of alot of people who just CANNOT believe that elections are being rigged & stolen, despite truckloads of evidence.
I imagine for him it may have been even harder to accept that it might actually be true, especially being in the thick of it & BEFORE all the evidence started coming out.
I know, I know...somebody will get on me for that...since there's nothing NEW about crooked elections! But the SCALE of the corruption, wouldn't you say? the audacity of it, was unprecedented. That was not instantly evident. For someone like Gore--for alot of people--I think that is a big pill to swallow.

But hey, I thought Kerry was an honorable man at one point. I could be wrong here too.

DUH!!! REMEMBER THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE...IT IS OUR ESCAPE CLAUSE THAT THE FOUNDING FATHERS...NO DOUBT FIRST CLASS OBSERVERS OF HUMAN NATURE PUT IN FOR JUST SUCH AN EVENTUALITY...I AM AN OLD ARTHRIC MAN...BUT IF I WAS YOUNG AGAIN...SAVE THE REPUBLIC...WHAT KILLED ROME WASN'T SEXUAL IMMORALITY BUT IMPERIAL HEDGEMONY AND THE POWER THAT COMES FROM HUMAN GREED AND HUBRIS...THE ROAD BUSH IS LEADING US DOWN...HOPEFULLY WE WILL SURVIVE...
:confused:

Revolution is our right and our duty. But how does that work? ..run out into the street with our broomsticks and .... ? what?

Don

This is one of the most intelligent and thoughtful discussions on this matter that I've read or heard in some time.
For more on Al Gore's state of mind, I would suggest the David Remnick piece in The New Yorker, Sept 13 2004 (also on The new Yorker web site (search "the Wilderness Campaign") and seeing the not-to-be-missed film "An Inconvenient Truth".
The New Yorker article mentions that in 2004, Al Gore appeared on an alternative pop album called "Plastic 350" by a band called Monkey Bowl. He adds his 2 cents worth on a song called "Al Gore". It is a beautiful thing. It's on iTunes and the album is at infinitycat.com (or their store at musicfansdirect/infinity)
It's worth hearing his words at the end of the song (the album's not bad either!).
This discussion (especially voter fraud) has got to pick up momentum as the 2006 elctions near, or it'll be deja vu all over again.

Can anyone here see how the two-party system contributes to election fraud?

Gore and Kerry made the same error. They thought the issue was about THEM. If they couldn't prove fraud quickly, better (in their minds) to allow it and hope the people who did it won't do it again.

Crooks don't work that way. This isn't rocket science, folks. If you allow someone to steal your wallet, what you don't do is leave the wallet out in the open again, because having gotten away with stealing it once, he'll do it again as sure as God made little green apples.

Elections aren't about Democrats and Republicans, they're about people and freedom. The right to vote belongs to us, and when an election is stolen the people suffer. One party wins and another loses, but in the big picture, everyone loses. The miserable presidency of George W. Bush simply confirms the fact.

#27
"...we are as responsible for this mess as anyone in Washington..." No. We're not.
Yes, it's up to us now, but our only choices are violent revolution or the legal system, as fucked up as it is. And they have WAY more firepower.

I, too, must rise; as a Southern man, in defense of the state of Tennessee!

I have lived in Nashville for ten years. I grew up in Mississippi and I matured in (the place I still call "home") Louisiana; but Tennessee is where I intend to live out my days - or at least my working days... And a big part of that is that the area (I'm most familiar with Middle Tennessee...) is relentlessly nice. Good people. Salt of the earth, as they say. Do anything for ya. It sounds hokey, but it's true. And they will help anybody out, Black, White or anybody else. I'm very pleased to be raising my children in this place.

I have NEVER seen any thick racist attitudes in our city. Hell, Howard Gentry, a black man and a Democrat, is the vice-mayor and may soon be our mayor, despite the fact that we only have about 20% African-American population. And this in the largest city and the capital of the state of Tennessee. Howard Gentry beat a quality white man moderate Dem for the vice-mayor job. I'm a white man. Who'd I vote for? Howard Gentry.
So please don't call us racist, there, Mr. "Paul Revere."
As for the rest of the state, I see more of the (very rare) racist tendency in East Tennessee, where there are few blacks and therefore it's easier to perpetuate that sort of thing; but still, most of those people do not think of themselves as racists, but instead merely (as KestralBrightEyes says..) Christian.
The Western part of the state, is, like Mississippi and Louisiana, perhaps slightly racist within the white powerholder elite - but those folks are mostly Republican anyway, and they didn't defeat Al Gore.
The po whites - the rest of us - are busilly living, working, schooling and loving in multi-cultural Southern situations, and the racism question is sooo over. The fact is, a Memphis Black man, Harold Ford, Jr. may just be (should the votes be counted fairly on our no-paper-ballot machines) the next Senator from the state of Tennessee...
The '00 reality is that Gore was libeled as a "Godless liberal" by a huge NRA and Religious Right coalition that claimed he'd lost his Tennessee values - guilt by association with Blue Dress Bill Clinton.
Another truth is that he could have won here, but it would have taken way too much time and money, so the campaign decided to focus on Florida to take the win. And it worked. He did win!
The other truth is that he didn't campaign well here. I saw him answer on local TV the question about why Bill Clinton was not campaigning for him, and he smiled wanly and said in his best beta male wimp voice, "Well, uh, I'm campaigning as my own man..."
I knew he was done in TN right then. Anytime Bubba is wondering about your manliness in Tennessee, like, say, when the NRA hammers you questions of your testosterone level, it's a good idea to be forceful and aggressive in your demeaner. Al Gore didn't do that then.

I've seen Al's environmental presentation (at Vandy a couple months back), and he is a powerful, warm, charming and funny speaker now; when left to his own devices. I'd vote for that guy in a minute. Everyone who knows Gore around here says he's as great a cat as you'd ever wanna know.
So look, "Paul Revere," I don't know what you saw in one tiny visit to TN that made you think we're racist, but you need to get over that.
And we appologize for Frist...

oh yeah, and Joan #25:

Come on down. There's plenty of us Godless heathens here, and ain't none of us been stoned yet.
Well, OK, actually a lot of us have been stoned...
Naw, you just got to know how to appreciate the faith of the RRRight without being angry at some of 'em for being so stupid...
And if you wanna get stoned with some of the heathens, I hear (though of course, I have no personal knowledge...) that there's a big time cash crop growing in the hills of TN...

I hope Kestrel and Shannon will agree that Tennessee harbors a lot of anti-intellectualism, which to my way of thinking is just as dangerous as mixing religion and politics.

I had the privilege of directing "Inherit the Wind" for a local theater group in Connecticut 15 years ago. I also discussed the Monkey Trial, which took place in Dayton, Tennessee, in "The Lindbergh Syndrome."

The trial was about evolution vs. creationism, but it was really more about the social chasm between big-city intellectuals like Darrow and down-home religious folk like Bryan. Darrow was brilliant, but he was also condescending and superior toward people who weren't, thus he lost the support of Dayton's intellectual minority, which resented his attitude even while agreeing with him on evolution.

So an important question involving what we teach our kids in school was never settled, as it might have been. The trial became a media circus and a cultural clash, not a route to sanity. George W. Bush carried Tennessee because too many locals regarded Gore as another Darrow...an intellectual who really wasn't "one of them," even though his father had been an icon in the state.

#35 Gary,
Thanks for the link to The Wilderness Campaign. Excellent piece.

IMHO, I think Gore is simply saying that working within the current system would not have helped him right the wrongs of that election. The system needs to change itself - if you know what I mean - and they are not doing a very good job of it. The only other alternative would be to work outside the system - which he is doing now but in a peaceful, intriguing, and very winning manner. But as for the election, he could have yelled very loudly, the rest of us would have joined in, and in the end, we'd all be hoarse, and likely living in a more hellish police-state place than we are now. If we ended up alive that is. Because the "system" proved itself flawed and it proved itself broken, and it continues to shatter at every turn. Aside from having the SC decide the election erroneously, I will never forget the plainly rabid, hateful, violent, vengeful, win-at-any-cost, republican operatives bussed down to florida to bang on windows...and to stop progress. That kind of shit should just make you go whoa nelly, reflexively take a step back, quietly walk away, and figure out how to effect this much-needed change in a way that wins everyone.

What do I know, I'm just sayin.

Shannon,
Thanks for the invite! Haha, careful, I just might take you up on it. I spent a week in Nashville some years ago & actually had a great time in a little bar one night, watching folks dance. Great music!
Being an "old hippie" I put in my time getting stoned (in the proper 60's sense) during my wild youth, so... been there, done that!
I TRY to be respectful of others' views on religion. It sure is a challenge, though!
What I find astonishing is that so many people (though seemingly, thank goodness, an ever-dwindling number) still believe george bush to be a "good Christian man". I would think they would be mightily offended by his blatantly un-Christian policies!!
Not that I need to tell you that.

I live in TN, so I can testify to both the pros & the cons that have been enumerated above. I don't know if I can ever forgive TN for what they did to Gore, a native son.

That being said, Al is a decent, thoughtful human being who lacks the killer instinct that has ensconced the neocons in power. People don't realize, but we just went through a revolution and the forces of darkness won. I think we may have to have that violent revolution to get rid of the scum & before we can clean our nation up and get rid of the stench that covers us all.

Gore/Edwards... I want a Gore/Edwards sticker for my car, and buttons, lots of buttons to pass out.

I agree with Miss P the system does need to change. One way to start is supporting Democratic candidates in the November elections and take back at least the House, if not the Senate also. Then there can be full investigations into the myriad of issues (completion of 9/11 Commission Report, lead-up to War in Iraq. etc etc etc) and legislation for election reform.

But first and foremost we must keep our eye and energy directed to midterm election.

For Miss P.: Everything you say is right. You can't fight serious criminals with cap guns. But I respectfully submit that for Gore to have kept silent, because to have yelled would have brought on a police state (or for any other reason), simply postponed the problem to a future generation, meanwhile guaranteeing that the 2004 election would be stolen...and 2006, 2008, ad infinitum.

Gore (and especially Kerry) dealt with the frauds as political problems, not as criminality. They asked themselves, "Can we win the fight?" and decided, "No, we can't." Gore, at least, gave it an effort, Kerry quit immediately, but both made the mistake of thinking only about OUTCOMES and not about ELECTORAL INTEGRITY. "If I can't win this fight, I'm not going to try, no matter the consequences for future elections or the right of the public to have its votes counted properly."

Whatever else they will have done throughout their careers, Gore and Kerry will be remembered in the history books as selfish political operatives who knew the 2000 and 2004 elections were fraudulent but wouldn't pay the political cost of saying so. Kerry in particular is a disappointment, because he had earlier shown a willingness to speak out bravely, regardless of the cost to him personally.

To Paul Revere

We're not all racists and bigots in TN. We're going to put Harold Ford Jr. in by a landslide. You have to understand that Gore has grown a lot since he was VP. People in TN remember him as he was when he was a Senator which was not good.

RLM, I'm usually with you on your posts, but I really think you're off base here.

Gore's concession in '00 didn't enable the Repugnantcan election fraud of '04. Yes, Gore's campaign was poorly run on a number of fronts. YES, racism had a role in the popular vote -not just in TN, either- but NOT with a black campaign manager, Bigoted Americans will NOT elect a JEW to the executive branch, period.

It's the abject failure of our formerly free press that's to blame for enabling Repugnantcan election fraud. No matter how obvious, no matter how impossible Chimpy's "win" of '04 was, the lapdog press utterly REFUSED to report anything of substance on the rigged election at all. Not only that, but the media (both local and national) actively shunned any such discussion as delusional and unworthy of any examination.

Re #1 - I think that statement means that people who question the election results are called "sore losers," and given basically no recourse. That leaves them with only one potential action.

This is one TERRIFIC thread! All you thinking, caring human beings --- I can't be grateful enough for your expressions of wisdom and insight, and there are too many familiar voices here to single out.

Blessings and peace. As for revolution, perhaps the peaceful revolution is already taking place and this thread is one evidence of it...

I think, in context, what Vice President Gore said, about there not being an intermediate step between violent revolution and the Supreme court decision, is easy to understand and to visualize. Let us say, for the sake of this discussion, that with the margin of popular vote in his favor, as sitting vice president he decided to "fan the flames" of outrage from his supporters, and having access to the military, refused to step down, refused to honor the court decision refused to accept defeat. What would his options have been. There were partisans on BOTH sides who felt disposed towards violence. I think the possibility of a breakdown in social order was very real. He chose to go through the legal process. He tempered his deep and justfiable anguish at the outcome and and in the interests of the country and the Constitution he had sworn to uphold, he did the correct and very difficult thing. None of us had any notion then, as we do now, of the horrors that awaited us.

With Chimpy, the caveat: "no one could have forseen".... is employed at every disasterous turn. But Gore, in conceding the '00 election, really could use it. After all, who could've forseen that Chimpy would either ignore or actively participate in allowing 9-11 to occur, in order to exploit a dramatic terrorist attack as justification for pre-emptive war? Seriously. We all knew Chimpy would be a fuck up. But this bad???

No, Gore's motives for conceding were honest and had the best interests of our nation at heart. Kerry however has NO SUCH EXCUSE.

Al Gore should have said something, just as Kerry should have and we the people should have shown our outrage at both elections with national strike days that dwarfed the immigration rallies of LA! Then the media should have been outraged and slammed the newspapers, TVs and radios with the 'investigations' until the truth was puked out!

I still think a national strike (like stand in middle of all major highways and roadways) type of strike in needed to wake those chickenshit (both sides) representatives and senators up and remind them they represent us, not special interest.

The media once had a panel and Helen Thomas said that people have not shown outrage so they can't....Well Helen your sweet, but you all must lead with truth so that the morons that are afraid can open up and show their hidden outrage too. Until the media leads with truth those of us that speak of truths that go uncovered will continue to be called conspiracy freaks and nuts!

We ask for no favors but truth on the front pages on a daily bases! Then we can deliver outrage!

For BMII: I agree with you that the corporate media have been totally irresponsible. I'd go further and call them accessories-after-the-fact of fraud, because it's impossible to believe that every newspaper publisher and every TV network executive is oblivious of the fact that two elections in a row have been stolen. It isn't a case of passivity; the media have in fact suborned criminal conduct by keeping silent.

But we'll have to agree to disagree about Gore. He might have had the right motives between the election and Bush's first inauguration, but as the revelations have come forward since, especially regarding voting machine companies, he's had a duty to speak out...if for no other reason than to help prevent the same thing from happening in 2004. He said nothing, though he did criticize Bush for other failures. He's not afraid to talk tough, so I conclude his failure to address the 2000 election fraud is a calculated decision on his part.

For me, it comes down to the difference between a public servant and a self-interested politician. A true public servant would ask, "What's best for the country?" A politician asks, "What will work for me?"
For Al Gore, knowing what he knew about the 2000 election, to have issued no warnings about 2004, and to have played it coy ever since on the topic despite a second election debacle, tells me his thoughts are about 2008. In that regard he's been
asking himself, "Do I dare risk being called a wimp and a sore loser for claiming I was screwed back in 2000?" His answer to himself? "I can't risk it."

The word "politician" has three "I's" in it. It doesn't have any "W's" or "E's." That's no accident.

"I could think of no worse example for nations abroad, who for the first time were trying to put free electoral procedures into effect, than that of the United States wrangling over the results of our presidential election, and even suggesting that the presidency itself could be stolen by thievery at the ballot box." Thomas Jefferson (1743"1826), US Founding Father, drafted the Declaration of Independence, 3rd US President

"It's not the voting that's democracy - it's the counting." Tom Stoppard

I truly believe Al Gore conceeded the 2000 election to avoid the very real possibility of civil strife degenerating into a civil war. There are a lot of long suffering tensions brewing in the Collective American Subconsciousness - the only thing keeping a lid on it is the mass medias deliberate framing. Healthcare, Pensions, retirement security, actual Cost of living (not the fabricated "official" COL), job security, corporate and govenrment mafeasus, "immigration".

Small wonder the Bushites are institutionalizing the Total Information Awareness domestic spying apparatus with the aid of "private business" like Choice Point, AT&T, SBC, Yahoo, et.al. Plain and simle its the old fashion Nixon enemy's list. Enemies of the State - enemies of the Corporations "private Contractors". :angry:

I took Al Gore's statement differently to mean that in 2000 there was a pending Republican Moral Majority revolution brewing and since there wasn't a step between the Supreme Court and a violent revolution, they used the Supreme Court option. In other words a coup on the American voting system occured that was aided by the Supreme Court, which had been successfully stacked with conservatives since Reagan. The more I think about my take on Al's remark and after reading the other interpretations, perhaps mine was incorrect.

Dear Kestrel:

I lived in the "Volunteer State" for 1.5 years (1992-1993). Clarksville.

(My landlord there once "informed" me - read, warned - of a "Black boy" - his words - who moved in a couple of doors down from my apartment.)

I was viewed by my friends and colleagues as being a "Damned Yankee." It was about 2 notches above being Black.

I know well of the influence the ultra-right Church of Christ was on state politics. (An office building used by several State Agencies on Church Street in downtown Nashville was owned by the Baptist Sunday School Commssion).

2 days before election day 1992, I remember my pastor at the Clarksville First Assembly of God informing me about how I should cast my vote. He said (from the pulpit) that he didn't care about the economy (remember Mr. Carville's "It's the economy, stupid?"). Instead he cared about "Family Values." He said that if he went further and endorsed any candidate that the Montgomery County party lawyers would sue him. (He left out the word Democrat intentionally.)

While voters in Tennessee are conservative, no doubt about it... (my ultra-rightist Republican Congressman Don Sundquist became governor after Neddie boy left.) However, I am seeing no real preference between Democrat (like current Gov. Bredesen) and Republican there.

Nashville is diverse. So are Memphis and Knoxville. But even that is relative.

#34 Don,

If everyone who believes that our election process is fradulent would organize and march on Washington D.C. and demand that Congress pass laws that ensure that every vote is counted, maybe we could bring more attention to this issue. As we all know, the "Liberal Mainstream Media" has not covered the fact that we have crooks in this country who are stealing our freedom through election fraud.

But a bill was proposed by House Rep. Russ Holt in February of 2005 that is languishing in the House. Bill HR 550 "The Voter Confidence And Increased Accessiblity Act of 2005", would help decrease the chance of election fraud by use of a voter verified paper audit trail, among other things.

I quote from Rep. Holt's website below:

"But in November 2004 as many as 50 million voters voted on electronic voting machines with no voter verified paper trail. The accuracy of the vote count in those instances can never be confirmed, and there was enough distrust of November’s election results that a challenge to the certificate of the electoral votes from Ohio was launched, heard and voted upon in Congress before the 2004 election was ratified. Therefore, this security and auditability enhancement – a voter verified paper audit trail --- must be implemented as soon as possible, and before the next general election. H.R. 550 is not designed to solve every problem with the electoral process, only one of the most fundamental and pressing: the current lack of the ability to verify the accuracy of approximately 50 million American votes."

Legislation on this issue is long overdue and if we don't bring attention to it and demand action, we could have a repeat of more fraud in the 2006 elections in November.

If millions of people can march on the issue of immigration, surely millions more can march on the subject of our trampled voting rights!

I have posted the url from Rep. Holt's website below:

http://holt.house.gov/di...fm?id=6282&type=Home

The Al Gore of 2000 was a DLC, inside the Beltway, corporate shill stiff who simply crafted his candidacy based on what the right wing media said he had to do. (which of course meant he didn't crush Bush 70-30% like he should have.)

The Al Gore of 2006 realizes that following the script of professional DLC losers whose job it is to help elect extremist RW Republicans is not the way to go. He realizes that if you speak truth to power, you fight like heck for the middle class of America, you don't participate in the divisive race and gay baiting of the Right and when punched by a right winger you ALWAYS punch back five times as hard, you will WIN big and destroy the right wing forever.

So Gore, from his erroneous ways, has rediscovered his passion, his values, and I feel genuinely would make a great President.

In 2000 I voted for Gore with my hand held to my nose and simply because his opponent was George W Bush. In 2008 I will vote for Gore expecting a great president.

If you believe that Al Gore won, then it's time to jump on the Missing P Project bandwagon. Spread the word; steal the P back.

The Missing p Project
www.geocities.com/themissingPproject

RLM #40:
Anti-intellectualism in TN? I don't know that I'd agree that there is more here than elsewhere; other than there is more Radical Religious Right than in the rest of America. And of course that can be called "faith-based" living instead of "reality-based" or maybe "science-based." Faith-based means, for many, that they do not have to be bothered with facts,