Oh my god, Winter P. The depraved levels humans can sink to . Especially the chuckles from the audience.

I've long suspected that the phrase "Semper Fi" is Latin for "Simpletons Fire."

The worship of killing is an extension of the worship of guns. It starts in childhood Boys are fascinated with deadly weapons; if they're taught by their parents that guns are dangerous, they are likely to grow up as responsible, peace-loving citizens. On the other hand, if they grow up around gun collections, and/or see Dad come home with a dead deer on the top of his truck from a hunting trip, they can't wait to emulate him. Give him a phony war and a Muslim "enemy" he can hate, and it's only a few steps before he becomes a Marine General who laughs about killing people.

Robert #2,

Do you think they kill by dehumanizing people and seeing them like the deer? Like a prize in a game? A hunt? A proof of their manhood and dominance? All that crap. All that fun.
It's beyond my comprehension.

Does anyone know when the gun was invented?
And by whom?

That man is a disgrace to the uniform - he does not represent the United States Marine Corp, and he's a poster child for the abuses at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo. He should be wearing a swastika, it's more fitting. I wonder how many Iraqis all over the world will see that video clip? I'm sure that'll win hearts and minds.

The retired admiral was wrong - there ARE people who just enjoy killing, and they make it dangerous for everyone. That man does not belong in a position of power - and unfortunately, if all holds true to form, he will be moved up in rank before his career ends with a nice retirement pension.

Okay, I hesitate to post this part because I know it won't endear me to some here...but part of my heritage is Cherokee and Creek - I come from a long line of hunters and fishers.

In defense of those who kill only to feed their family or to defend their crops (not for trophy), there are choices we all make - you do what is best for the family. (And no, I don't hunt, but all of the males and some of the females in my family do).

Someone who kills animals just for fun is a lowlife, right about the level of a thief.

I know many don't see it that way, but there really is a big difference.

Well, the man is painfully honest. More than can be said for his commander in chief.

You have heard the term "bloodlust". It is a notion that realizes the connection between the sex drive and killing. The term "lust" is generally associated with sexual attraction of a certain kind, however, this can be perverted to a condition where it is sexually stimulating to torture and kill.

Note that in his own words the general attached it to people who "had no manhood left" when they "made" their women wear the muslim head coverings.

This was fanciful on his part. Some of the sincere muslim women who are devout do not consider it oppression. They would consider it oppression to not be allowed to wear it, like in France for instance, where wearing it was outlawed.

And of course other muslim women do not like to wear the headdress covering ... and that is fine too.

But to associate a trivial doctrinal point in the muslim religion with killing for fun is to belie the underlying problem - bloodlust.

I am reminded of the Holocaust and those who had the same bloodlust toward the Jews ... and who also tried to cover up that bloodlust with trivial rationalizations.

Hi Kes,

Your take on all this is admirable - fear not, we Bradvillers aren't blindly judgmental. I agree with you about hunting, and I believe that that general is a disgrace to all America, but especially her service men and women. He should be drummed out of the corps and shunned for the sociopath he is. And the same goes for all those present who laughed at his raving. And people wonder why this country is so broadly feared and despised. I believe that any commander-in-chief worth his salt would immediately decommission this foul enjoyer of mass destruction! But, then, aw hell, bullsh likes that sort of frat boy talk...

The more I think about that creep the angrier I get. When I was in the service (65 to 69) I was fortunate enough not to be sent to Nam. But in my heart I knew that taking another person's life is the absolute worst thing you can do, period, and I had firmly decided that I would serve as an unarmed medic if I did have to go over. The thought of living your whole life trying to be a good human being and then, possibly in the last moments of your existence, spoiling it all by killing someone was unthinkable. That this cretin (and a general at that!) thinks it's fun is beyond appalling, and that he bragged about it in public is beyond belief. But sadly, he's just the sort of guy ole rummy and birdbrain love. What on earth has this country become?

Czaragorn, Kestrel, Dredd, Teresa,-

It is precisely this man's attitude that we are supposedly trying to eradicate in the Middle East, isn't it? A callous, cruel disregard for life? Remember the accounts of the psyching of our troops before they overran Fallujah? The "holy war" posturing and "righteous" hysteria? It was prelude to the state of mind this general describes: O.K., guys, let's go and have some FUN! Does anyone know whether Gen. Mattis was there, supervising that obscene circus?

What has humanity become?

"Does anyone know when the gun was invented?
And by whom?"

It's difficult to say, really. There are many competing theories. It can depend on how you define "gun." Man has invented several different ingenious methods by which to propel a projectile over greater distances with greater degrees of accuracy. Magnetic rail guns appear to be the next method on the horizon.

I think the "gun" or "firearms" were a process of "invention" by many different groups and individuals. The Chinese discovered gunpowder and made use of it in crude rockets, but the first cannons that used gunpowder to propel a projectile down a barrel or tube were probably invented by Europeans, who learned of gunpowder from the Chinese. The process of invention has really been one of refinement and miniaturization. I just see different methods of propelling a projectile with accuracy to kill or wound. I think it's the killing at a distance that holds the great fascination. To primitive humans, such skill with a spear or javelin or stone must have seemed like magic. What did Arthur C. Clarke say about no advanced technology being distinguishable from magic? Without that " fascination with magic" the acquisition of the required protein to aid in our evolution and development (and eventual creation of nuclear weapons) may not have resulted. Hunting and gathering came before agriculture. So, in a sense, as difficult as it may be to accept in the modern world, that fascination may be evolutionarily hardwired. Hundreds of millions of computer gamers across the planet can't be wrong, the marketers can smell the money. Sorry to wax philosophical, but like it or not, the act of killing at a distance or the method employed isn't really the issue to me, it's how you deal with it after you have done it, and was it really necessary to do it. Sometimes it is, but not in this case, and that General really needs a Public Affairs officer as a full time wet nurse. It's a free country, but not in the military. As Kes pointed out, without "the fascination with the magic of killing at a distance," or hunting, our survival as a species may not have been assured. The fact that it may be the cause of our own destruction is a matter for philosophers poets, and priests, to figure out now, or for those who come along after us and find our bones in the dust to figure out later.

Kestrel,

Subsistence hunting is altogether different. And it is my understanding that the prey is always respectfully, reverently thanked for its gift of food and clothing. Here in rural Maine, where monetary poverty is the norm and the deer herd is overpopulated, I argue that the November hunt by residents falls into this category. I know a lot of families that wouldn't have enough to eat over the winter if they didn't "get their deer" before Thanksgiving.

I can't bring myself to kill anything except mosquitoes. But hunting a non-endangered species for food is perfectly justifiable, moral. And it's "hard work," something even * claims to know something about!

...czaragorn,

So you are old enough to remember the Chicago Seven, but I'm puzzled. You say you were in the service...

"That this cretin (and a general at that!"

surely you recall that's who usually got the rank in many cases, cretins.

Yea Kes,
I'm with you. Subsistence hunting is NOT the same. I also do not hunt, but certainly would not turn down a fresh deer or moose roast.

Killing, on the street, or in war is altogether different. And to actually enjoy it is disgusting! And to laugh about it is evil.

Dredd said:

"It is a notion that realizes the connection between the sex drive and killing."

I agree there is a connection, survival.

I think it's all evolutionarily hardwired in the limbic system, the vestigial remnants of our lizard brains. It's still about survival of the species, (sure, sex is fun, too). If we survive, we will probably evolve beyond it, soon I hope.

The killing, not the sex.

This is nothing new... most of the world's most successful military figures have been somewhat bloodthirsty, haven't they? And frankly, since we're always going to have a certain proportion of the population with violent tendencies, I'd rather have them in the military than working next to me. When we actually need the military to defend us, we want it to work well, and for a military to work well you need people who want to be there. Incidentally, demonizing the enemy is nothing new either - if you have to kill people then you need a reason to hate them (this guy has convinced himself that the enemy abuse their women - you might consider that a step up from the racial stereotyping of past wars).

We shouldn't be surprised that some people are in the army because they like the idea of killing people. That's a good place for them (and we shouldn't be surprised if they're not very good at diplomacy, either). The problems arise when we get people in government who like the idea too....

Well put, C.C.

The modern military is populated with quite a bit more than that, logistical and support, brains in vats monitoring monitors. Perhaps you recall a film called the Bedford Incident. We are only seeing the tip of the spear in this case. And we can't indict the whole military for the indiscretion of one individual. There are way too many Generals in the military anyway. Advancement is part of the retention program.

Cheryl said:

"I also do not hunt, but certainly would not turn down a fresh deer or moose roast."

I could never eat Bambi or Bullwinkle. I wouldn't eat Rocky the Squirrel or Thumper. Too gamey.

"It is a notion that realizes the connection between the sex drive and killing."

Dredd, I totally agree and it is such a relief to hear someone else say this. I've been talking about this for a long time and people tune it out.

I think we are unable to deal with our sexual impulses in general, but it mainifests in various ways. We are terrified of its power, and have yet to find satisfactory outlets. The urge to thrust and penetrate is what killing is all about, is it not? The torture is sexual malfunction as well. The blood, of course is a very complicated issue.... blood lust...we seem to have a fascination with seeing it outside of its natural place within the veins. Our attention is riveted when we see it. I think there may be also some feeling of redemption when we bleed and suffer. Some warriors in history supposedly put themselves on the front lines purposefully in order to sacrifice and acquire this redemption.

I read a theory once... the author said that our killing was related to evolving from being preyed upon to being the predator. He said the killing now was a malfunction of the original hunting impulse.

Nonetheless, sex, blood, power, and killing, I'm sure are all connected. Maybe it's a matter of evolution, as we rewire.

It's a good point, LGM. When I was a part of it we called the ordinary duh lifers "treads" and the lifers who loved it "pukes." The point being that career soldiers are generally not very nice at all. Patton comes to mind. What we really need is to try to refine our human culture to the point where armies are superfluous, fortunately, since there is no one who would be willing to serve in one. And yes, I remember Abbie and the Gang, and so on... Right on, and power to the (nice) people!

Kes said:

"Okay, I hesitate to post this part because I know it won't endear me to some here...but part of my heritage is Cherokee and Creek - I come from a long line of hunters and fishers.

In defense of those who kill only to feed their family or to defend their crops (not for trophy), there are choices we all make - you do what is best for the family. (And no, I don't hunt, but all of the males and some of the females in my family do). "

You shouldn't have to hesitate for posting that, or worry about your post "not endearing you to some." The General might have thought a bit before making his comment. He certainly hasn't endeared himself to many in more conservative quarters. We, (and I am speaking for the forces of light here) should accept the fact that this is part of who we are, evolutionarily speaking, and deal with it. As people who are interested in taking back our country from these morons, we must recognize that we need the help of many Americans who feel somewhat confused about the issue, but agree with us in principle, as they agree with the other side, in principle. Self defense is a human right. To take food by hunting or trapping, for survival, is a necessity for some. Complete and total disarmament is not likely to happen in our lifetimes. It might be nice if it was the first and only step we needed to take, but I don't think we will get very far that way. We definitely need to find a way to attract those who like to hunt or own guns and believe in legitimate defense, but are horrified at the General's remark to our side and cause. More liberals than you know are gun owners. The perception that all liberals are anti-gun or against hunting, even for sport, is propagated by the conservative myth machine.

And Teresa - Nice job of summing it all up

Anyone remember My Lai?

Guess what? AlJazeera has added the story to its english-language website. But you read it here before they had it!

Absolutely, LGM.

I hope no-one thought I was painting the whole of the military with the same brush.

And I did have Patton in mind when I made my earlier comments, Czaragorn - not the most likeable of men from what I've heard and read, but it's a good thing he was on our side.

Okay, I'm exhaling and relaxing now. Y'all really DO "get it" - that's cool It's hard sometimes to defend my preference of wild game and even grass-fed cattle (as opposed to grain-fed, which means they must be given antibiotics daily from birth until slaughter) to those who are either not omnivores or who forget sometimes that the meat they buy in the supermarkets had a face once too. Thanks for not judging me.

Cheryl #17 re: too gamey - You just haven't had it cooked right *grins* Let me know if you ever change your mind, I have some tricks to teach ya. I'm not much for squirrel either, but I make some of the best fried rabbit w/gravy and biscuits you'll ever taste!

LGM #13 and Teresa #18 - Sounds like one or both of you may have read "Broca's Brain" by Carl Sagan - I LOVE THAT BOOK! I think I need to look for it again, I loaned out my copy in way back in high school and never got it back.

LGM #14 - Thanks for clarifying that *L*

I believe y'all have definitely hit the truth with the "blood lust" thing. Going one step further, that is also the reason (going back to the primitive brain) that rape is such a powerful tool of war. It is a way of not only killing someone, but of dominating them by taking that which means the most to them - their spouse or their child.

And ya know, I really do see the point of those who say this person and others who enjoy killing belong in the military. I always said I'd make a lousy soldier, because as much as I THINK I could kill someone to defend myself, my home, or my family if there was no other choice, I know me well enough to know I could never do it just because someone else declared someone "the enemy". I'm glad there are those who can, else we would be very vulnerable in the world.

I still say he is too dangerous to be where he is, in the same way that a policeman who is trigger happy is dangerous. If a person lacks that filter that makes them see killing as something to be avoided whenever possible, if it no longer bothers them to take a human life, it makes it too easy for them to lose control - definitely not what you want in a combat situation.

From S.F. Gate

"Marine general counseled for saying ``it's fun to shoot some people''

Thursday, February 3, 2005

(02-03) 12:20 PST WASHINGTON (AP) ---

The commandant of the Marine Corps said Thursday he has counseled a senior subordinate for saying publicly, "It's fun to shoot some people."

Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis, an infantry officer who has commanded Marines in both Afghanistan and Iraq, made the comments Tuesday while speaking to a forum in San Diego about strategies for the war on terror. Mattis is the commanding general of the Marine Corps Combat Development Command in Quantico, Va.

According to an audio recording of Mattis' remarks, he said, "Actually, it's a lot of fun to fight. You know, it's a hell of a hoot. ... It's fun to shoot some people. I'll be right upfront with you, I like brawling."

He added, "You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil," Mattis continued. "You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."

Thursday, Gen. Mike Hagee, commandant of the Marine Corps, issued a statement saying, "I have counseled him concerning his remarks and he agrees he should have chosen his words more carefully."

"While I understand that some people may take issue with the comments made by him, I also know he intended to reflect the unfortunate and harsh realities of war," Hagee said. "Lt. Gen. Mattis often speaks with a great deal of candor."

Hagee also praised Mattis, calling him "one of this country's bravest and most experienced military leaders."

He said the commitment of Marines "helps to provide us the fortitude to take the lives of those who oppress others or threaten this nation's security. This is not something we relish, yet we accept it as a reality in our profession of arms."

He said he was confident Mattis would continue to serve.

According to Mattis' biography, he commanded, as a lieutenant colonel, an assault battalion during the first war with Iraq. During the war in Afghanistan, he commanded the 1st Marine Expeditionary Brigade; in the second war in Iraq, he commanded the 1st Marine Division during the invasion and early period after the war."

Some thought on the matter from George
(Orwell, not Bush)

On the whole human beings want to be good, but not too good, and not quite all the time.

To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle.

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
George Orwell, (attributed)

War is a way of shattering to pieces, or pouring into the stratosphere, or sinking in the depths of the sea, materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses too comfortable, and hence, in the long run, too intelligent.
George Orwell, 1984

The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it.
George Orwell, Polemic, May 1946, "Second Thoughts on James Burnham"

Y'all write fast *L* That, or I take too long to revise and edit what I say. Ah well - it's better that I tread lightly, y'all really don't want full unfiltered exposure to the thoughts that run through my brain on a daily basis - trust me *L*

Czaragorn - #22 - That's exactly what I was thinking about when I read about Fallujah, and the fact that there were "no civilian casualties" Guys like this are the reason stuff like that will keep on happening. Those who don't learn from history...

Winter Patriot #23 - Wow...ya gotta wonder how many were recruited today to fight against the Americans based on that video clip. I'm waiting to see if he will be reprimanded in any way, but I'd bet dollars to donuts the answer will be no.

It's funny, on my "other" board, when I was debating a point about election fraud, one of the Bush supporters argued that if there were really that many problems, it would be all over the news (okay, stop laughing, he really believes it, poor guy.) I told him he could sit and wait to hear about it in mainstream and act surprised, or he could go to Bradblog, truthout, and a few other places and get the news fresh.

Watergate took three years of investigation before it came out big time - think how much more quickly it might have happened if we'd had internet back then. I'm too impatient to sit back and wait that long.

czaragorn,

My Lai was an "incident". Tiger Force was an Orgy of Blood Lust. We didn't hear much about this during the campaign and the election, and the army is still investigating and prosecuting some of these war crimes today, over 35 years after they were uncovered, quietly, of course. The Toledo Blade won a pulitzer for this bit of reportage back in 2003. Quietly, of course.

Teresa, you are quite mad.

I love the way your mind works.

That was all a cut and paste job, Kes.

Teresa,

I meant that in a good way, as only two "crazy" people would understand.

Gotta run.

Kes said,

"Y'all write fast *L* That, or I take too long to revise and edit what I say. Ah well - it's better that I tread lightly, y'all really don't want full unfiltered exposure to the thoughts that run through my brain on a daily basis - trust me *L*"

I do, I love to get inside peoples heads to see what makes them tick. What they really feel. Nothing scares me in the human brain, it's the heart we are all scared of.

Really gotta run!

LGM - Two of my main memories that year were: Noxin publicly proclaiming that Rusty Calley (sp?) was innocent, and would be pardoned regardless of the upcoming court martial verdict, and;
Noxin publicly declaring that Charles Manson was "guilty beyond a doubt" during his trial.
Sheesh! To think, our latest dictator makes him look like a two-bit latrine scrubber!

PS - And if you're running, we'll vote for you!

Thanks, LGM.

Kes said, to repeat once again, "y'all really don't want full unfiltered exposure to the thoughts that run through my brain on a daily basis - trust me *L*"

I do. Better than bloody reports of murder and torture. I would love dearly to replace that so-called reality out there with the fine ideas of you amazing thinkers at the Bradblog. Even if some thoughts are disturbing, they are still in the mental realm. The imagination will always be unbridled.
Reality could use a harness.
And our government could use some rat poison.

I am running! From the law! Now I really gotta run...

LOL, Czaragorn. #31

Kes,
#17 wasn't me. It was LGM. I looooovvvveeeee fresh meat. And I'm the biggest kind of hypocrite. If someone else kills it I don't have to look at Bambi or Bullwinkle's poor, brown eyes.
(Still, I would like to see those recipes.)

I have to draw the line at duck though. Living on the Coast makes them taste like rotten fish!! Blech!

I'm gonna put Yellow Submarine on the VCR and drift off into Pepperland and try to get some sleep (it's midnight here in Prague- way past midnight in Moscow, and this old-timer has to be ready for the public at 8:00 am). Make a pissed-off, raucous noise unto the Lord, and tell him to start slinging some lightning bolts! Hope and Love and Peace...

peaceful dreams, Czaragorn.

The Marine Commandant thinks General Mattis "should have chosen his words more carefully." What words should he have used to describe killing another human being? "Uh...looky here comrades, this Muslim dude, he beats his wife, ya' hear? Least I was told he does...I really don't know the sumbitch myslef. So I'm gonna fill his arse with buckshot. It's kinda' fun, don't ya' know?"

Is that better, Mr. Commandant? What you don't realize is that people "over there," those grimy Muslims, read this stuff that we say. And the next American prisoner they take is going to pay for it. That prisoner won't be a general, of course, because you guys are chatting with some talking head on CNN in a studio somewhere. It will probably just some unlucky corporal on the ground who feels the wrath of a Muslim who thinks the same way, i.e., "it's kinda' fun to kill people."

I was correct, 'way upthread somewhere, in opining that General Mattis probably had something to do with the pre-Fallujah circus (if you missed reading about it, look in the Truthout archives). Brig. General David Grange, retired, was on Lou Dobbs tonight and indicated that he (Mattis) had in fact been behind the Fallujah pep rallies. But Grange was apologist all the way, of course, and Lou lapped it up. For someone whose opinions on a lot of things I agree with, he disappoints me in matters military.

Czaragorn - I think we're all pretty much in the same age group here. We think too much alike NOT to have sixties memories and figurative or real Vietnam battle scars.

Cheryl - which ocean?

Teresa - I'm kind of fond of the folks here too! As a matter of fact, I'd be a desperate woman without you all!

Hi Peg C,

The Pacific Ocean. I hail from a small town not too far from Vancouver, B.C.

I am 46 years old and second Teresa when it comes to fondness of the people on this board. Thank god sanity exists somewhere!

Feb. 3 1973 VietNam cease-fire in effect.

58,245 us soldiers dead 95,000 VietNam civillians dead. Seems like yesterday.

Hi, Cheryl,

We're thousands of miles apart physically but not, I think, spiritually! I graduated from college the same year as that malignant growth *, 1968, I live on the Atlantic, and I envy you your Canadianness.
My baby brother is also a Canadian and lives with his family in Toronto. I feel like begging for sponsorship but also feel that this fight is too important to abandon until the ship is irrevocably scuttled.

Meanwhile, it's great to have you aboard with us! I MUST go to bed now, so...good night, and pleasant dreams.

Yes it does, doesn't it Nana? How time flies when you're living through it!

But no...I KNOW you meant, "It seems like yesterday" yesterday, 2004. And it does, it does...

Good night again (why isn't there a smilie yawn?).

"Granny D" in hospital, for address to send cards, see http://www.daourep

Hi Cheryl, Peg, Robert, Nana! You glorious ones from my era(don't know bout you, Robert).

We middle aged gals have higher levels of testosterone, you know. We can be Baadddd. We don't normally kill, though.

Cheryl, I've heard such wonderful things about Vancouver. Must be a great town. I have relatives in Montreal, and thought I could go there if necessary. But I think not. I agree with Peg that we have to stay and care for our beloved country.

And Nana.. that made me a little sad about Granny D. It's the timing. She's up there in age, though, so a little hospital time is acceptable.

That Viet Nam experience was a doozy for all of us that were young men and women then. Kind of like an initiation. A close encounter with disgusting, senseless killing. So vivid. I think we all stay disturbed by the memory.

Maybe that General Mattis is a freak. That pre-fallujah circus was absolutely horrifying. But I think that is how they whip men into psychosis whenever they go into battle. Maybe it really is abnormal to kill, so that is the only way they can do it. Make it a game. A group bang. But I fear the General really does think it's fun. But really, the whole thing is a freak show with body parts flying all over the Middle East. And all the self righteous smug well fed Americans staring at their TV's watching the dismembered parts fly, as if in a movie, and thanking George Bush for spreading democracy and keeping the foreigners away. And oh how they cried last night for one dead soldier.

I wonder if he was having fun.

I don't believe General Mattis' views are unusual in the Marine Corps. He simply was tactless enough to say what he said publicly.

It will be interesting to see what reaction we get, if any, from Rumsfeld and/or Bush. General Shinseki had the courage to criticize the Pentagon on Iraq troop levels, and he was sent to bed without any dinner, so to speak. But the general who said he prays to one God and the Muslims pray to another is still wandering around in uniform.

The bottom line is this, folks...Bush, unfortunately, is commander in chief. Generals who work under him like to flatter the boss by acting the way he acts, i.e., like a bully. We all know Rumsfeld and Bush condoned torture, and are still condoing it; these remarks from General Mattis fall under the rubric of a Freudian slip.

I'm 63, for the poster who asked...a widower with three grown daughters and four grandchildren who will some day have to undo the mess this imbecile Bush has created for our country.

NBC had a report about Gen. Mattis last night, surprising in itself, considering the Msm's habit of protecting **sh and his accomplices. It was straight forward in reporting what was said. But, as always, Mattis will not be reprimanded. We have lost our way, and forgotten, or allowed to have been stolen, the basic foundation that this country stands on. If people like this, and statements so outrageously Anti- American, continue to be allowed to go unchallenged, we are in deeper trouble than I thought.

BTW, since some of us are revealing our ages, I will reveal that I will be 43 this month, and I live on Eastern Long Island, which is more like New England than New York. I have one son and two daughters, 17, 14, and 11, respectively, and I'm married to the most beautiful woman on the planet. Okay, that's enough info, probably too much.

Peace

This is sick! He's gently chastised and told to choose his words more carefully.

Marine General "counselled" over statement

Oops! My Canadianess is shining through. Notice the spelling in the title?

Oops again! Sorry LGM. I posted before reading. Oh well. It's so sick that it doesn't hurt to point it out twice.

Peg C #42,
We are thousands of miles apart physically but I feel like we are all spiritually together. The wonderful think about the internet is that it enables us all to connect and support each other, don'tcha think?

Teresa #45,
We middle-aged women are definitely not to be f***ked with! It must come from years of caring for other people and when they grow up and leave we need to focus our *caring* elsewhere. On the other hand, we may just be good people who object to outrageous nastiness from others! Vancouver's ok; it's nice to have it there if you need it, but I've said before that I don't have much use for cities.

Robert #46,
I feel for your grandkids. GWB is certainly doing his best to make their future as difficult as possible, isn't he?

Supersoling #47,
It would appear that you're the *baby* of this board. Or does anybody else care to pass on some personal info? It's nice to hear a man say that he's married to the most beautiful woman in the world. I hope you tell her that all the time.

Thank you everyone for making me so welcome here. I got so tired of all that is happening in the world that I took the night off. Spent it watching the Happy Days 30th Anniversary special and smiling and remembering much simpler times. I know, it's a corny show, but does anyone else remember watching it and smiling for the entire show?

Cheryl, I feel the same way about being welcomed here. It's vital to my sanity to know that there really are many more who are outraged and frightened at our present situation. The fact that this General won't even be reprimanded let alone, court martialed is beyond my ability to comprehend. I mean, will no official stand and condemn this? Don't they understand that these kinds of statements are exactly what causes us to be feared and hated in the eyes of the world? I'm going to e-mail every Senator and Congressperson that I can about this. Maybe we can get Moveon. Org to generate some kind of protest against this.It just seems like every time we let these outrages go unanswered, we allow THEM to have another little piece of our country.

As for longing for simpler times, I think, at least for me anyway, that the past always seems like it was simpler and better, but of course at the time, it really wasn't that way at all. Still..... I too enjoyed watching the Happy Days reunion, because it at least gave me the " feeling " of happier and simpler times, something that is sorely needed, I think, by all of us these days. I am thankfull to count myself as one of " US ".

One more thing Cheryl. I will admit that I don't tell my wife, or any of my loved ones, nearly enough times, how much I love them, and need them. Thank you for reminding me

You are such good warm-hearted people. I feel lucky indeed to have found you.
We will be protected.

Teresa -

Oh, let's work at it - mutual protection, that is. I have two grandchildren, Robert has four, I'm sure there are many more out there, and the world is being abused beyond tolerance.

I got up sometime around four A.M. this morning, wrote a Letter to the Editors that I'm sending to all newspapers in my state, and hoping... What more can a granny do? :-\

I'm with ya, Granny!

I do so admire your get up and go, Peg.

Hi Peg C and all

As long as we're sharing ages, I'll become a sexagenarian on 1 October - beware! I've already told you I'm in Prague, but I'm plotting a return to my native New England.
And SSoling and Teresa and Cheryl and WP and Brad, last seen on a backroad somewhere near Tonopah, and all the rest of you, even atty corndog, DO NOT FEAR! What comes after the bloodless battle (Velvet Revolution) is finally overwill indeed be the good old days.

Oh yeah, I have two grandsons, Muslims at that, and I want to see the America they grow up in be better, not worse, than the one I grew up in (and the 50s were pretty grim, as I believe you, my dear friends, know full well)...

I have two teenage grandchildren, boy and a girl They attend the same highscool as did my mother, me and their parents attended. It's in a small town in south Florida near the beach, south of Palm Beach and north of Miami. My grandkids and guilt over a 37 year "political coma" is the main reason I recently became an activist. I'm ready to raise hell and make up for lost time. I'll never trust them again, and I'll teach my grandchildren the lesson I have learned.

You go Nana! It's never too late. Thanks for signing up!

Nana said:

" My grandkids and guilt over a 37 year "political coma" is the main reason I recently became an activist. I'm ready to raise hell and make up for lost time. I'll never trust them again, and I'll teach my grandchildren the lesson I have learned."

Music to my ears. The beginning of the end. We can do this, people. We can.

I am absolutely sickened by the comments I am reading at this site.

You people have a very naive and lop-sided view of reality. Let's get it straight people: War is an unfortunate, but inevitable part of life. Without war the United States would not exist, and you would not have the freedom to express the ignorant opinions you have in this blog. Without WARRIORS, like General Mattis, you would not have your freedom.

War is ugly and not for the timid. Warriors must train themselves physically and mentally to be successful in war. Part of that training is an ability to kill the enemy without hesitation. In order for a man to kill his enemy on the battlefield and return home without permanent emotional scarring, he must steel his mind to the grizzly task of taking life. He must justify in his mind that he is doing the right thing. He must value his life, and the life of his men MORE than the life of his enemy. He must "psych" himself up to face the danger. It is very frightening to know you are facing possible death in combat.

The experience of war often makes a man appear "callous" or lacking consideration for humanity. This is far from the truth; a man comes back with a better perspective of the world and a greater appreciation for life. But it does tend to make someone less likely to "sugar coat" the ugly truth of the world. I believe Gen. Mattis' comments were meant for fellow warriors who understand his perspective, not soft and naive civilians who can't imagine what it is like to engage in combat.

George Orwell said it best: "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

For Mr. TBone: War is not inevitable. War is sometimes necessary, when 1) we are directly attacked, or 2) when an ally we are pledged to defend is attacked. Neither of these conditions exist in Iraq.

If we attack a sovereign nation that doesn't threaten us, then your definition of anyone we kill as "the enemy" is forfeit. We attacked Iraq. People who live there, and choose to defend their country are not enemies...they are victims of aggression.

Thanks for comment #62, Robert.

Perhaps Mr TBone can explain how (in comment #61) he managed to equate "a greater appreciation for life" with the general's statement that it's "fun to shoot some people."

By the way, Aljazeera has been running this story since it hit the headlines here, and by now everyone in the Arab world probably knows that the US Marines are led by a general who has fun shooting people. It's bad enough that most of the world thought the USA had attacked Afghanistan and Iraq for oil, and for empire. Now they have to be wondering whether we're doing it for fun, too.

Talk about sickening!

My lord god, Winter P. What a story to be circulating. But it just verifies what they already know.

TBone, Have you killed anyone? I'd like to know if you have any real knowledge of this.

#61...

George Orwell said it best: "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

I beg to differ. Since these men went into to Iraq to do violence, I have not slept well at all. The whole thing has given me a sense of foreboding. Not safety. What goes around comes around.

Really, Mr. TBone's logic about inevitable war and enemy combat comes down to the axiom, "Might
makes right." We were the clear aggressors in Iraq, so according to what moral standard do we define anyone as "the enemy?"

Enemy of what? To resist aggression doesn't make one into an enemy, unless the aggression has a moral foundation. The Marines who charged into Fallujah were supposedly seeking the enemy; in fact they couldn't distinguish between insurgents, local residents hiding from violence, and friendly Iraqis. Everyone was an enemy at that moment.

A Marine was photographed shooting an Iraqi in cold blood because he "thought" the victim (who was cowering on the ground, covering his head, and could have been taken prisoner instead) had a deadly weapon. We have heard nothing from the government about this apparent cold-blooded murder, but I saw a petition bearing over 500,000 signatures (as of a month ago) demanding that nothing be done to punish the trigger-happy Marine.
No doubt this number includes many "Christian" conservatives who claim Jesus Christ, the Prince of Peace, as their Savior and Lord...along with the born-again Bush.

When the history of the Iraq War (a misnomer, because only Congress can declare war) is written, Bush and Rumsfeld will be revealed as men who attacked a sovereign nation without just cause. In this respect they will take their places alongside the tyrants of history, all of whom said they were conquering "enemies."

Robert #66...

I believe you are right about history judging this administration harshly, if they are even remembered at all.

From what I understand, much of Iraq is a free fire zone now, which is a sign of desperation, being unable to recognize the enemy. Unfortunately, that is just what this administration wants. They want the troops to shoot all Iraqis, creating chaos, and enciting civil war, so they can maintain permanent control. Why do you think they left that huge weapons cache unguarded? No mistake. They wanted the Iraqis to have them in order to be used among themselves.
This whole election is a sham. They have no intention of letting any group lead the government. I think the insurgent uprising is largely a sham, too. Most of the shooting and killing is being done randomly by the Americans. Why was it so quiet during the elections? The troops stopped shooting so they could vote.
The Iraqi resistance might turn out to be the real thing, though. I expect the neocons to fail at this experiment.

In reply to Robert and Teresa:

It is very clear from the way you articulate your opinions that you are quite isolated in your comfortable, isolated world. I experienced direct combat (three separate tours) and feel I have a perspective that you armchair pundits do not.

I am not a warmonger; I am a realist. I am not a moral relativist; I base my actions on principle. Who are you to make a moral judgment on the war in Iraq? Who are you to make a judgment about a Marine who was forced to make a life or death decision? How much do you even understand about terrorism or the politics of the Middle East vis-a-vis US National Security? I reckon you have no information beyond what CNN shoves in your ignorant head...and even then you filter what you hear through a distorted worldview. You are naive and unrealistic. You are safe at home, so therefore you can only imagine what happens in the real world.

Please save your judgments and your opinions for people like yourselves who live in the fantasy world you live in.

In reply to Robert and Teresa:

It is very clear from the way you articulate your opinions that you are quite isolated in your comfortable, isolated world. I experienced direct combat (three separate tours) and feel I have a perspective that you armchair pundits do not.

I am not a warmonger; I am a realist. I am not a moral relativist; I base my actions on principle. Who are you to make a moral judgment on the war in Iraq? Who are you to make a judgment about a Marine who was forced to make a life or death decision? How much do you even understand about terrorism or the politics of the Middle East vis-a-vis US National Security? I reckon you have no information beyond what CNN shoves in your ignorant head...and even then you filter what you hear through a distorted worldview. You are naive and unrealistic. You are safe at home, so therefore you can only imagine what happens in the real world.

Please save your judgments and your opinions for people like yourselves who live in the fantasy world you live in.