Ha! Thats awesome! I wish Bill Smashed them. You got that up pretty quick.

that as funny as "cave dwellers" taking down steel framed buildings and "five sided building dwellers".

"cave dwellers" 1
"superpower" 0

any news about the Anthrax letters ? talk about funny !

Maher is such a joke. Vastly ignorant in his remarks about 9/11 or simply a Mockingbird.

Often quoted and unfortunately probably very true:

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." - William Colby, former CIA Director

Brave and devoted souls. Real Americans. Maybe he'll think twice now before cracking wise about people with more heart and courage than he could ever dream of having.

Heart and courage? For trying to shut up someone that doesn't agree with them? Believe what you choose. Maher doesn't agree with you. It's his right folks. And what exactly do you think Maher could do if he did agree? You do your cause no good. I have often wondered about some of the things that happened on 9/11 that didn't seem to make sense. Now I just wonder about the pinheads that think harassing Bill Maher will get the answers to those questions.

I'll never close my mind to that situation like Bill did,
Bldg 7 does look very fishy indeed.

Especially when you look at the anthrax attacks along with the pre-written 'Pat-Riot Act', this appears to me like the coup in 1933 that fell apart. (thanks Smedley)

Along with Operation Iraqi Liberation.

The BIG picture doesn't look so good after that.

The only thing that keeps me from unquestionably believing #7 demolition though, is (and they never discuss this) that almost half of the front end of the building was supported by a bridge beam that straddled the emergency generators for the twin towers, if that beam let go, it would bring the building down just like it did similar to OKC.

I'll go with the LIHOP theory for now, with (neo-con?) hand holding for the pilot training.

Just my dos centavos

The people you described as having heart and courage are the same people who watched 2 planes plow into the towers but claim it was a missle or an "inside job". These are your real americans lol. All Bill as ever said about them is that they're stupid - which a majority of "real" americans would agree with and they are ticked off because he won't give them air time.

Now if you think what they did was ok - that you have the right to make an arse out of yourself at any time and place - then it's time that atheists interrupt church services. Or perhaps those against modern medical practices due to religious faith - can now walk into your operating room.

With respect to comments Bill made about 9/11 that were stupid - prove it. Anyone can say that he is stupid but based on what? The worst that he has said is that the President didn't ask Americans to sacrifice for this war and that he couldn't believe that Bush didn't move for 7-minutes after being told we were under attack. You're right that is stupid - Americans shouldn't sacrifice and when we're under attack the President should continue reading to grade schoolers lol.

AND, as far as OKC goes, I would have presumed SNAFU too until the pictures showed up

WTF is this ? Link

Find a physicist to explain conservation of momentum to you.

Buildings cannot come down at free fall speed unless explosives remove all the resistance beneath each floor. Period. Not if fifty planes fly into them.

Jet fuel is but high grade kerosene. Try melting a steel beam with kerosene. Try to get molten metal to burn for a month from your little kerosene experiment.

Maher sneering on his show about people with the balls to stand up for the truth deserved the little intrusion, and I hope some more people come to their senses because of it. For every fifty who tut and tsk about them disrupting his show, maybe there will be ONE who thinks, "Wow, they were that adamant... maybe I should look into it."

I saw that and Bill brought attention to it. A friend suggested Bill opened the back door without actually endorsing the theory. "Thou protesth too much"

I could go with that too 99, but I was at the aftermath of a small power plant fire that was hydraulic fluid fed and 24"x 2" thick beams were bent like pretzels.

We were all totally amazed when we seen it.

Steel doesn't have to melt, it just has to get hot

Whilst I have a lot of sympathy with many of the points raised by 911 skeptics, this kind of demonstration is totally counter productive.
It will persuade no one least of all Bill Maher to examine the 911 fraud in depth. Besides there is much more to it than the mechanism of the collapse of buildings.
It is much more instructive to look at the PNAC and the history and aims of the Neocons as well as the shocking admissions by the members of the Keen Commission that they were both lied to by senior military witnesses and that they were set up to fail.

Floridiot, how long did it take to heat the steel in your power plant fire for it to start bending?
The steel columns in the Twin Towers had just 45 and 90 mins to heat up. Don't forget that the columns were massive heat sinks.
Also NIST admit they were unable to find evidence for temperatures as high as 500 degrees in the impact zone steel. They came to their conclusions by making assumptions to fit their flawed hypothesis. Their conclusions were not based on physical evidence !!!!
How unfortunate it was that Saint Giuliani had it all melted down in China!

I can't find any links to the power house fire (late 80s), but this is where it happened Link

Steve, couple of hours (maybe three) I guess is all it burned, but remember it was some thick shit too.
It's okay, you can believe what you want, I just seen it with mine own peepers is all.

I also don't think these dumbfucks were smart enough to get it together either, let alone wipe their own ass.

The only thing I could see them pulling off together is toe-tapping in adjacent stalls

I'd love to yell out to Bill Maher that 9/11 does not make a lot of sense as reported. If he insulted me & charged me.. it would bring a lot of plesure to deck the little media guy.

He is really out of his mind, by thinking he can insult American's who question 9/11 & try & bully them into quiet submission.

I guess the mentally ill were out in force at the Bill Maher show last night. I am gald the 9/11 protesters thought disrupting Maher's show with shouts of insanity and sheer desperation would show the country that they were more then the iconic tin foil hat wearing crowd. Finally, the absolute disrespect of Bill Maher on his own show is out of line. I can think of very few people such as Bill Maher who have provided meaningful debate and entertainment in our society devoid of culture in the mass media.

Check out this site Floridiot and see if what you've been told makes sense to you.

http://www.911lies.org/W...molition_explosions.html

All we're saying is lets take another look without a stacked deck.

What's Bill afraid of?

Maher was right to call for (and participate in) an ass-kicking of the tinfoil hat 911 conspiracy nuts, who just proved with their classless actions that Maher's view of them is totally justified. Sure made for some exciting TV, though!

Big Andy, a quote from your site link is exactly why I remain skeptical of the official story because as I watched this on live TV expecting 'A' (topple) to happen, never even considering option 'B' (collapse)

The biggest buildings in the world, 110 floors apiece digging their own graves instead of toppling over?

BUT, by throwing enough shit at a wall causes some of it to stick, I ain't wit dat man, sorry.

Bill doesn't have to give credability to a theory. A theory that has been busted time and again. But here's the thing - no one has a right to disrupt an event they are invited to as an observer. For the guy who said he would deck Bill - lol - I suspect Bill would flatten him because only people who can't do it threaten to do it. Bill has said that he will not talk about this theory on his show - end of subject - it's his show and if he decides against it - that's his right. I am sure there are other platforms where these idiots - and I do mean idiots - can speak out. These people have had their 15 minutes of fame - it's time to close the door. What is most important is what we as Americans have done since 9/11 - looks like these idiots have done nothing but create more anguish for those who were actually there.

Bill was the guy who charged the audience & said he's going to kick the guy's ass.

He better think twice about pretending he is a tough guy.

You're right S..L., Bill can decide not to ever discuss the 9/11 conspiracy on his show. And to be sure, it was a conspiracy. Even if it's what you kool-aid drinkers think. But Bills' also decided to be a hypocrite when he decides that his descent trumps that of the people who what to expose the government lies and the cover up that is 9/11. Looks like Bush isn't the only decider.

I wax hot and cold on Maher and I did not see his show, but I do have an opinion on the buidling investigations. My profession is building design. I know enough to see that a proper and thorough investigation of the failures was not done, particularly with WTC7, but also the main towers. I have a few questions about the Pentagon too. I know enough about structural steel to agree it does not have to melt to fail; that is pretty basic knowledge in the industry. However, the presence of molten (liquid) metal in the rubble pile weeks after the tower destruction does present some issues as does a rational debate on the "free fall" argument. I have seen videos suggesting liquid metal was also seen before the collapse. The trouble with investigations to date is that they make conspiracy ideas easier and they do this because the simple physical "autopsy" of the destruction was so lousy. I do not rule out conspiracy; I just don't think it is properly addressed by doing slip-shod investigations. And as for Maher, I see no reason why he should be give a bye on protests and demonstrations any more than a politician.

Good! I stopped watching his show after he "heckled" the 9/11 truth movement! There's too much evidence it was an inside job. There's just no way the govt's story stacks up to the evidence of the 9/11 truth movement. At the very least, there was a cover-up as to what really happened. Plenty of evidence for anyone who isn't a Dittohead.

I'll tell you how much of a decider Bill thinks he is, he's decided to take the chat board on billmaher.com down. The guy is a coward and a kool-aid drinker.

Gtash, hundreds of your colleagues have joined together at http://www.ae911truth.org/ Why not have a look?

Paul I am sure he's scared - again, anyone can be brave behind a keyboard lol. As for the "it's an inside job" - you are free to believe what you want - you are not free to do it wherever and whenever you want. Is Kool-aid drinker the cliche insult now lol - sounds like na na goo goo on the playgound lol. Look the conspiracy theories have been debunked. With that said believe what you want - I have no problem with questioning anything that comes from the govt. In fact I believe it's our obligation to do so. With that said evidence has been presented on both sides - our interpretation of that evidence is what determines what version has been proven. You're not going to get more people to believe in your side by forcing it down their throats or calling them names or making an arse out of yourself as these people did last night. In fact most of the posts on the forums are negative against your cause and I think this doesn't help. If you want Americans to hear your side - organize, raise money, start a political platform - do it right - not like children. All this did was put you in a bad light as it should have. But in the end, if after everything is laid out on the table - if the majority of americans don't buy it - it's not because they're stupid or this baby term "kool-aid drinker" but it could be they don't buy it because you haven't anything worth selling. As I believe is the case. I don't believe we blew up our own buildings. Is it possible some allowed it to happen - sure but the rest of it I just don't buy. My opinion of course and before you say it I'm not a GOP or a DEM or a Liberal .

that the hecklers are idiots enough said

Same to you j/k

How about the BBC new on video reporting the WTC-7 fell...before it fell? How do you explain that?

Why did WTC-7 disintegrate demolition style...due to fire? The only time in history? People seem to forget this building wasn't hit by a plane.

Why didn't WTC-7 fall over sideways, if the one side had damage? Or just that side fall, like OKC? It fell demolition-style.

Why is John Kerry on video tape, saying it was controlled demolition?

Why did Silverstein say "Pull it"?

How come this only happened 3 times in history, only to these 3 buildings?

There's just so many more unanswered/avoided questions, I can list well over 100. There is, at least, a cover-up of what really happened.

Where's the plane parts in the Pa. crash?

How come in the Moussaui trial, the FBI couldn't produce evidence of the cellphone calls from the jets?

"However, the evidence from the Moussaoui trial ruled out this possibility. In its report on AA 77, it listed one attempted call from Barbara Olson, which was “unconnected” and hence lasted “0 seconds.”"

http://www.911truth.org/...?story=20071009102819394

http://www.911truth.org/...?story=20071009102819394

TV...friend TV...friend TV...friend

All stocked up on CRAZY, sell it somewhere else Bill.

33 posts, the most I have seen on this site in a LONG time...way to go Brad!...post more junk like this to keep the fools happy.

PHONY ANGER - Maher's a bad actor

It's hard to believe someone with so little humor or charm like Bill Maher has his own show on TV. The way he handled the truthers shows his total lack of wit, but then again Christopher Hitchens showed the same bully phony anger at 9/11 truthers, and he has both wit and charm. Perhaps, the fake anger is coached because if rational behavior would prevail, then there would be a sane discussion, and the truthers would win out !00%.

Just read PATRIOTSQUESTION911.com

SLBushway,

You are free to believe what ever you want, I know 9/11 was at the very least, made to let happen, which is criminal.

As far as kicking the stuffing out of Bill Maher, big deal.. the guy is a pencil neck.

Heckling is a desperate tactic. It can seen as a last ditched effort to get your side heard after your theories and ideas have been rejected, debunked and proven wrong.
Please, 9-11 Truth People, I beg you: remove you aluminum foil hats and move on to analyzing the Zapruder film, visiting Area 51 or figuring out whether the castaways from Lost are really stuck on an island or trapped in limbo in an alternative reality.

SLBushway,

"Is it possible some allowed it to happen - sure but the rest of it I just don't buy." ???

When was the last time you've taken a morning departure from any west coast to east coast city or any east coast to west coast city and the plane wasn't at least 90% full? Somehow on 9/11 four airliners from 2 of the country's largest airlines were only filled to 35% of capacity. Does that prove anything? Hell no it doesn't. But on the same morning there is 4 or 5 different air defense exercises taking place at the same time.Including artificially injected radar blips on ATC screens and some exercises that simulate the very thing that took place that day. Bush is at a elementary school in Florida and Cheney is conveniently left to hold down the fort and the U.S. Air Force can't intercept a single plane that day. Combine those events with PNAC's "New Pearl Harbor" statement http://en.wikipedia.org/...y#.22New_Pearl_Harbor.22 And Yeah, there's more that a chance it was allowed to happen.

Cabobubba (#34) -

As per our rules here, it would be appreciated if you choose a user name, and stick with it, please. Do not post under several different names. Thanks!

Flo #12

There were pools of molten metal at the bases of all three buildings that stayed molten for weeks, over a month. Kerosene cannot do that. The dust is full of vaporized metal residue. Kerosene cannot do that.

Nothing, nothing, nothing can fall into the path of most resistance at free fall speed, ever, ever, ever... unless the resistance has been blown out from under it in advance.

I don't know anyone who is saying that the * administration planned it and carried it out. I think everyone could agree it would very much more likely have been done by competent people. There isn't any way someone can know the facts that are knowable about this and not see that there is no way under the laws of physics for what we saw to have happened without massive help from explosives... military grade incendiaries. Somebody inside made it happen. Not Islamic terrorists. * and Fudd know and are using it to enrich their friends and advance their agenda.

If you don't have a fast enough connection speed to watch any of the videos that explain this stuff in layman's terms, and show all the pertinent pictures, I would be glad to get you a DVD or two.

I admire Bill Maher, and I hate hecklers, mostly for wasting everyone's time, but Maher's wrong about the book being closed on 9/11. The 9/11 Commission served as a whitewash for the bush administration. It left us with too many unanswered questions, esp ones about the Pentagon crash. Maher's comments that he's actually with bush on this one are very surprising, but heckling is antithetical to the goal of having an actual, real investigation into the events of that day, an investigation that does not have as one of its goals the protection of the reputation of the U.S.

Everyone who's aware of the extraordinary efforts and actions taken by the b/c administration to set themselves up for immunity, inc efforts and actions taken by them prior to 9/11, can't help but understand how the b/c administration could have so badly misread the intelligence leading up to 9/11. They were busy little neoconservative bees undoing the laws and other restrictions that support American values, such as those in our Constitution and those spelled out in the Geneva conventions. The b/c administration was focused on undoing this country, and not on protecting this country.

For Maher to have publicly announced on his show his agreement with the b/c administration that the topic of 9/11 is over just shows that he is relatively uninformed on the topic, while insisting on having a strong opinion. His supporters SHOULD let him know how disappointed they are in his public remarks, but heckling is NOT the way to go.

What makes me believe the conspiracy even more is that all these covert right wing nut bags are trying so hard to convince us to believe the approved version of 911

hhmmm why are they trying so hard? if were all just crazies?

I agree that heckling is awful, Linda, but I also see that those who would have justice and America back have been left with very little recourse. Masses have been lobbying our government officials on a number of fronts to NO avail. They are flat out ignoring us on many vital issues. Beside the election integrity quagmire seven years into a trivially simple to fix problem; habeas corpus has been yanked despite a massive outcry; people are still being tortured despite repeated massive outcries; we're still being wiretapped illegally despite massive outcry; Justice Alito was seated despite thousands and thousands of people jamming all the Senators' phones and fax lines in favor of a filibuster; * and Fudd have not been impeached despite a veritable Fortune 500 level industry pushing for it; our troops are not home despite a tidal wave of voter turnout to overcome the election rigging to accomplish it; there has been no real investigation of the events of 9/11 despite it serving as the proximate cause for the total dismantling of our Constitution and countless deaths.... All these things and many more have enjoyed massive input from the public --- to historic levels --- and all of it almost completely ignored... by the government and the media.

A kid was tasered for publically insisting on answers relating to one of the worst crimes in our history. None of these things are getting a fair airing in the media. If not for hecklers like these even less would reach the public eye.

Maher went so far as to not simply ignore the truth on a vital subject, but to use his considerable influence to impugn the sanity of people whose grasp of physics won't let them lay down next to him for the mass murder that has served as the basis for a fascist takeover of our government. I actually think the heckling was a good thing insofar as it might make others afraid to be such assholes about the matter on their shows; it so happens the hecklers were standing up for decency in a world where it is being fairly thoroughly suppressed; and there really might be a few out there who will come to understand when they consider just what might drive some people to that extreme.

The whole scene is deplorable, but the hecklers are the patriots here.

Bill Maher is a left gatekeeper pussy. Agent 99 is absolutely correct, and I will try to put this in terms that can be understood even by government-hugging assholes who don't have guts enough to question things that don't add up: People in the reality-based community should have no problem whatsoever in realizing that the uppermost portion of a skyscraper is not going to be able to "fall" into and THROUGH the remaining vast majority of solid building as quickly, meaning as effortlessly as falling through air without something else (i.e. explosives) reducing said majority of building to such a state of offering no more resistance than air. Can we all agree on that? Sounds pretty straightforward; solid things offer vastly more resistance than air. Anyone who graduated elementary school SHOULD be able to grasp this, and SHOULD be able to therefore grasp that the Twin Towers and WTC # 7 building had to have been controlled demolitions. It is literally COMMON SENSE.

Eat shit Bill Maher and all other gatekeepers.

cabobubba: How come you, and people like you, never answer the questions?

I don't have any respect for anyone who believes the govt's "fairy tale." Including Bill Maher.

And while I'm talking about gatekeepers, if I just posted what I posted above on Crooks & Liars I would have been banned, I know because I have been banned there. Crooks & Liars is what's known as a left gatekeeper blog; their job is to pretend to be leftist (earning their "credibility" with plenty of Bush-bashing) and then use that "credibility" to manage discourse, diverting discussion away from areas most harmful to the regime. They will take things right up to the edge but they know how much they can say and what they can't say. On the most important issues they are obfuscators and distractors, discourse channelers, not genuine leftists. Just like Daily Kos, Huffington Post, MyDD, Democratic Underground, Moxie Grrrl, Educational Whisper, The American Prospect, Mother Jones, Salon, The Nation, Sadly No!, My Left Wing, etc. These kind of sites, though appearing to foam at the mouth with vitriol against the right wingers, are actually doing the regime a favor by limiting discussion on matters to keep it within parameters safe for the regime.

Want to see how Markos Moulitsas of Daily Kos fame has ties to the C.I.A.? Read here:
http://www.thehollywoodl...aily-kos-cia-connection/
http://www.commonwealthc...6/06-06zuniga-audio.html
http://www.myleftwing.co...owDiary.do?diaryId=17528
http://wheres-my-left-wing.blogspot.com/
Want to see how Kos does the same shit as Crooks & Liars, covering up for the mass murdering clique who brought us the 9/11 inside job? Check here:
http://wagnews.blogspot....tself-as-controlled.html

So just because a blog APPEARS to be leftist, don't assume they are genuine. Finding out where they stand on 9/11 truth and election fraud will let you know if they're for real or just part of the cover-up.

He only has 60 minutes to discuss several topics with 3 separate guests, and have a video guest segment, and then the "New Rules" segment. On a busy live show like this, you have to have a specific plan on what will be discussed, a timeline, and control over the discussion themes. After all it is *his* show, and *he* needs to remain in control of it for it to work and not become a chaotic shouting match. When parts of the audience try to take over the show, and control the discussion themes, and mess around with the delicate timing involved in a live show, they are going to get booted. It is plain and simple common sense. Don't be stupid fuckheads and think that he has some sort of obligation to you. I can't believe so many people would pull out the ladder and piss all over such a longstanding and thought provoking political discussion show, just because he kicked out some loudmouths that happened to be on "your" side, but were extremely disruptive. Oooh, what a terrible man Bill Maher is... Phooey. And I really don't know what exactly happened on 9/11, but Maher has enough other themes that are important, so I can forgive him for ignoring such a discordant and divisive debate topic. Nothing has been *proven* one way or the other yet. There is not even a scientific consensus on what happened. Maybe some day, but not today.

On April 29, 2007, a gasoline tanker truck carrying 8,600 gallons of fuel crashed in Oakland. The fireball caused the I-580 steel overpass to collapse.

I think there is good evidence that building 7 was "pulled" but high temperatures can cause steel structures to collapse.

When Bill gave his little New Rules quip last week I really had a hard time understanding why he took on the 9/11 truth movement. But after thinking it over for awhile I realized, Bill has his facts wrong quite often. He is usually the intellectual lightweight in the conversations he starts, much like when he talked about the Russian people with Kasparov(?). He comes across as someone who doesn't do his homework and just has his staff prepare his talking points. He obviously has not done much research on this subject and what he has done has been directed at the crazy side of this debate (and there are some crazy theories out there).

Since he has convinced himself that this is a fringe movement filled with crazy people, he feels comfortable with his attack. He thinks his viewpoint represents the rational side of the argument like he does with religion, drugs, Iraq and homosexuality. The problem is, most of the people who question the official story are not the lunatic fringe and have good reasons for their curiosity.

This is not a movement peopled by crazies who think there is no other possibility than our government did it, and anyone who doesn't follow their beliefs are bad or unpatriotic or evil or stupid. You get those arguments when talking to someone who is convinced in their heart that gay = evil or abortion = murder. They cannot be debated. They cannot be reasoned with. They cannot wrap their head around your view and couldn't give a shit what you think.

The 9/11 truth movement is looking for answers. Most of the ones we have been given don't hold water. Most of the really hard ones have been ignored. The investigation that was conducted by our government (I read the report cover to cover) can only be viewed as a waste of paper. Compare the amount of money spent investigating Bill Clintons blowjob and what was spent on the 9/11 report.

Show the public the footage of the airliner striking the pentagon.

Show us the reconstructed aircraft, or any parts, from the Penn. or pentagon crashes.

Explain the molten steel burning weeks after the collapse.

Etc, Etc, Etc...

I just wish Bill would educate himself. Reading the 9/11 report would be a good start because that thing creates more questions than it answers.

COMMENT #49 [Permalink]
... Thick-Witted Liberal said on 10/20/2007 @ 5:27 pm PT...

On April 29, 2007, a gasoline tanker truck carrying 8,600 gallons of fuel crashed in Oakland. The fireball caused the I-580 steel overpass to collapse.

I think there is good evidence that building 7 was "pulled" but high temperatures can cause steel structures to collapse.

A bridge in the twin cities collapsed due to the effects of gravity and poor maintenance.

The three building in NYC didn't just collapse, they disintegrated.

to Chris Hooten: It isn't just this one episode, in fact if you'll read at the top of this thread you will see that Brad mentions Maher's "paxil" comment, saying basically if you have enough guts to think for yourself and question 9/11 then you should be on paxil. THAT'S what got the protesters in front of his office and infiltrating his live show; this didn't start because Bill Maher didn't devote a segment of his show to 9/11 truth or something; he started this by saying anyone who questions a provably false fairy tale should shut up and go on medication. So Bill Maher is a piece of shit phony, a spokesman for groupthink. And it's a pretty sad day in America when someone has to disrupt a live t.v. show to try to get the truth out there that the supine corporate mainstream media as well as FAKE "liberal" blogs refuse to touch.

to Thick-Witted Liberal: First, comparing an overpass to a high-rise building are like comparing apples and oranges. Also, high temperatures didn't cause anything on 9/11 to collapse. Even NIST admits that the jet fuel burned off in 10 min. or less and after that it was burning office materials. Bear in mind, in 1975 there was a fire in one of the Twin Towers, burning much longer, much hotter and over a much larger area than on 9/11 and it didn't come CLOSE to collapsing. Also consider, I don't give a damn HOW hot it was, it's not going to make it "collapse" straight down into its footprint at freefall rate. Anyone with 5 or more brain cells can tell you that both Twin Towers and # 7 building (if they even WERE possible to start collapsing from fire and damage, which they were NOT) would have fallen over in the direction they were weakest, the side with the airplane crashes (and minor debris damage, for # 7 which was hit by no planes). NOT straight down the path of what SHOULD be most resistance, straight into its footprint.

to Chris Hooten again: did you even read what I posted and what Agent 99 posted? You say nothing has been *proven* one way or the other. How much simpler can I make this? I thought what I posted was about as common fucking sensical as can be. A child should be able to understand this. Let me try again: You have the uppermost part of a building, and the rest of the building, which is the vast majority of it, underneath, and solid. Not liquid building. Not air. Solid. OK? With me so far? Alright, now in order for the uppermost part of the building to "fall" into and THROUGH the rest of the SOLID BUILDING as quickly, meaning as effortlessly as falling through air (which even NIST admits it did), that would HAVE TO MEAN that SOMETHING (i.e. explosives) reduced the solid remainder of the building to such a state of offering no more resistance than air. Get it now??

If not, here's a hypothetical mental exercise for you. Imagine a gigantic crane and suspended beneath it is the uppermost part of a skyscraper (remember I said this is a mental exercise, don't come back with some snarky shit saying I think a crane can hold up a building OK?). Now, under the uppermost part of this building is the rest of the building. Next to it, is another imaginary crane holding up an identical uppermost portion of a building, but this one has nothing but air underneath it. If both uppermost portions are released at the same time, will the one that has to fall through nothing but air reach the ground at the same time as the one that has to crash through the rest of a solid building all the way down?? Of COURSE the one falling through just air will reach the ground first, MUCH sooner than its counterpart that has to fall through solid building. The official myth insists that the two would reach the ground at the same time. NOW do you see how ridiculous the official fairy tale is? NOW do you see how it is based on impossibilities that you aren't supposed to look into, but instead to take at face value? I don't really see how much simpler I can make this. Solid building. Uppermost part falling THROUGH solid building meeting no more resistance than air. Come on people, use your heads OK? Think about it. This isn't rocket science, it's common sense.

so I can forgive him for ignoring such a discordant and divisive debate topic

I could too, Chris. It's when he goes out of his way to say we need psychiatric meds that I stop caring about the delicate timing of his show, and start siding with those brave enough to inject some cost into such republic-killing rhetoric....

TWL

It didn't come down at free fall speed and the metal involved did not vaporize or liquify and there was VASTLY less steel involved than in any of the buildings of 9/11... and there was, I think, MORE fuel in that tanker than in any of the planes....

It's a testament to the Brad Blog that we can openly discuss this on here. As I mentioned, the phony leftist blogs, the gatekeepers, won't allow any questioning of the official myth groupthink because that would be completely counter to their task which is discourse control. In case you haven't noticed, the establishment tries to control both sides of a debate, through having its own openly-fascist mouthpieces on one side, and planted left gatekeeper blogs on the other to "debate" them. Try this on Crooks & Liars or Daily Kos or any of the other FAKE left blogs and see what happens. Kudos to Brad Blog for keeping it real.

For clarity's sake:

“Crazy people who still think the government brought down the Twin Towers in a controlled explosion have to stop pretending that I’m the one who’s being naive.”

He went on to say, “How big a lunatic do you have to be to watch two giant airliners packed with jet fuel slam into buildings on live TV, igniting a massive inferno that burned for two hours, and then think ‘well’ if you believe that was the cause, stop asking me to raise this ridiculous topic on the show and start asking your doctor if Paxil is right for you.” --- Bill Maher, Real Time With Bill Maher, 14 September 2007

That's what started it.

Thick witted {liberal... no name calling, Nunya. --99}, sorry but the tanker took out one of the few supports to the over pass it wasn't the fire and the one or 2 small supports left could not hold up the weight, NOT EVEN CLOSE to any of those large buildings, NOT EVEN CLOSE.
not to mention even after taking out one of the 3 supports which were tiny in comparison and having a hotter and longer burning fire it still collapsed slowly not instantly.

All 3 buildings completely defy the Laws of Physics, Agent 99 is absolutely correct there is no way these buildings could have collapsed like they did without explosives to take out the supports and the air pressure, this is literally 8th grade physics people.

Please explain to me (the approx 1/3 of you here ignorant enough to swallow the Official Conspiracy theory as told by known liars) just how do several massive steel beams & columns weighing many tons each get BLOWN across West 57th st some 400-600' away?

How did approx 1150 human bodies get completely vaporized, some 1700 others get BLOWN into little tiny bits that were collected in 20,000 Test Tubes?
How were at least 760 small shards of bone BLOWN across the street over 400-500' away?

Explain how the Laws of Physics some how not work that day?
How can a building collapse in the path of MOST resistance through one of the strongest buildings ever built when the lower 80+ floors were completely undamaged in any way and do so at near free fall speed (meaning the speed an object would fall IN A VACUUM!)

How can molten metal be in the rubble pile for over a month? there is only ONE possible answer BTW its called Thermate.

Why was NORAD told to stand down?
How could a 757 fly around for 2 hours and cruise into the worlds most heavily guarded building (Pentagon) when it was KNOWN that planes were flying into buildings and they knew where the plane was the entire way, Norman Mineta heard someone telling Cheney the plane is 50 miles out, 40 miles out, 30 miles out, the plane is 10 miles out sir do the orders still stand?
Cheney says of course they still stand have you heard anything different? Then the plane (or whatever it was) hits the Pentagon.

Why were the crime scenes cleaned up so quickly and with virtually no real investigations done?
Why did Bush and Cheney fight tooth and nail to stop ANY investigation of any kind and only after the Jersey Girls forced them did they finally agree to a totally set up bullshit report done solely by administration insiders (9/11 Omission Report).

The evidence FOR 9/11 being an inside job is absolutely overwhelming, anyone still in the dark on this today is either a Reich wing nut bag that only watches Faux Noise & Rush Limbaugh or just doesn't have a clue what they are talking about.

So for those approx 1/3 of you here that are clueless you might want to educate yourselves a bit and come back when you know what the hell you are talking about.

at least 40% of this country KNOWs that 9/11 was an inside job and that is with a total Media blackout of the facts.
The media is 100% complicit in the crime and the cover up EXACTLY like they were with the blatant election fraud in 2000 & 04'

Sorry 99 but I get sooooooo freaking infuriated at these people like this, aarrggghhh.
I knew I should have changed it when I proof read it but didn't. My apologies

There are terrible, nasty people in this world and some of them are in the White House. You don't know what happened in 2001 and forty years from now you still won't know. Some people are still talking about that grassy knoll. Move on.

Bill, why not bring on members the the NYFD or NYPD or Trade Center employees or people on the street who were on the scene and heard/saw explosions in the lower levels BEFORE the collapse. You can tell them they are crazy and need to be medicated. Try not to get punched in the face though.

TWL

They're counting on us wanting to move on instead of deal with the ugly truth. They'll never stop this horrifying shit until we make them. Some people are brave enough to stake everything on it, and they deserve our respect and love.

Except one problem TWL there is absolutely overwhelming evidence that a small cabal of insiders in the Bush administration are guilty of Treason, Mass Murder, Crimes against humanity and War crimes.

I will "move on" when I see Bush behind bars or preferably hanging from a rope after a nice thorough investigation trial and sentencing.

and while we don't really know "exactly what happened" on 9/11, there are a few things that I know positively did NOT happen.
One of those is the FACT that those 3 buildings did not just up and collapse like a house of cards because of a short duration low heat fire and damage from a plane which the buildings were designed to withstand and they did.
The Laws of Physics don't lie.

So if I know for a fact those buildings were taken down by controlled demolition then it doesn't take much to figure out whom could have possibly had the access to plant those explosives.

Wow, the nutcases are poisoning Bradblog now.

Disgusting.

I assume you must be referring to the "nutcases" that some how believe the Laws of Physics were not working on 9/11?
The "nutcases" that believe known liars about the key incident that made everything they did, every lie they told possible?

If so I agree it is disgusting.

If not might I remind you that you would be in the minority on most blogs like this.
As a general rule on most non-Reich wing blogs/websites those that know 9/11 was an inside job usually out number those that miraculously believe the Official Conspiracy Theory by about 8 to 2.

Frankly, I couldn't even hear what they were shouting, and wouldn't have even known if Bill hadn't said something. You can think that it was "heroic," but it came off as merely irritating, obnoxious, and disruptive; not very heroic traits. Their time and effort could have been much better spent. It merely was a retaliatory disruption of his show fueled by some offhand comments he made. It surely did not further the 9/11 truth movement, no matter how much you wish that it had. It smacked of childishness and lack of restraint, much like Maher's original comments (and many of mine, for that matter).

Actually just the opposite, their disruption made Maher mention WTC 7 and made his millions of listeners at least curious about what they were shouting and what they were thrown out of the studio for.

In fact what these few activist did was far more effective than what well in excess of 350,000 of us got accomplished in Washington DC marching around in circles like sheeple they had corralled while the Media completely ignored us.
I hope they hit his sorry ass on every single show and every single one of his stand up shows until he comes around to reason.
There are at least 120 Million of us right now and growing fast so this isn't going away in fact it is about to ramp up quite a bit.

Now that the server seems to have come back to functioning mode, I'd like to point out that it's getting pretty scary when so many people feel so unembarrassed about suggesting those who grok the laws of physics are nutcases and need Paxil. A lot of these people are the same ones who dis the religious right for their little beefs with science. Talk about hypocrisy! Yeesh.

F you bill. I am canceling HBO. You are a freaking government patsy MORON, or
a blatant liar, because anyone with an 8th grade grasp of physics, knows that
the official events of 911 is a fairy tale. keep kissing government ass, but I
won't watch or support you anymore, you are a traitor, and just FYI, no one was
laughing at that particular 'New Rule'. They were aghast at your blatant lies
and false acknowledgments, and more than half of your audience, more than half
of ALL Americans, believe the government story is a blatant lie ...so, YOU are
the stupid idiot that accepts the most wild conspiracy theories ever perpetrated
on a society ...the 911 commission report! ...really makes me sick. ADIOS B*TCH.

10 year hard-core fan & I am gone
10 year hard-core fan & I am gone

ACTUALLY CANCELLED MY HBO TODAY, NO BULLCRAP. I KNOW I SAID I DID LAST
WEEK, BUT I JUST HAD TO SEE THE NEXT SHOW AFTER THE 911 BULLSHIT. GLAD I DID,
GLAD I CANCELLED.

BE SURE TO TELL HBO WHY YOU ARE CANCELING. REAL TIME WAS THE ONLY REASON I
SUBSCRIBED TO HBO IN THE FIRST PLACE!! BUT THE FUCK IF I AM PAYING FOR
PROPAGANDA.

VERY VERY VERY DISAPPOINTED IN BILL THE LIAR, THEY MUST HAVE MADE HIM AN OFFER
HE COULDN'T REFUSE!! NOW HIS AUDIENCE ARE ALL 'LOONS'.

Bill was really mad and he couldn't wait for the show to end. I could tell at
the end when he looked over at the camera while the credits were rolling. I wish
they could have said something less involved so people could understand what
they were saying. Chris Matthews said "what is the issue." He couldn't
understand them. Once Building 7 came up Chris crosses his arms. He was
threatened by it. One good thing is that bill did say something like "they are
the people who think WTC was controlled demolition." That was very good because
up to that moment is wasn't clear what anyone was saying. So it was all worth it! Bill
made it worth it by clarifying it!!!!

Yes, nutcases...

Planes flew into the towers.
Jet fuel spilled everywhere.
Fires broke out on multiple floors.

Eventually the steel buckled from the heat - PROVEN, by the closeups broadcast by National Geographic.

The end.

Except, the nutcases keep going and going.

"Well, what about #7?"

As if two 100+ story buildings falling to the ground wouldn't cause structural damage to surrounding areas.

So yes, nutcases.

NO the nut cases and mentally ill are in the administration, John Dean # 70 and george #18
Why such secrecy. Why did bush have to have Cheney hold his hand as he was questioned about 9/11. Why was all the steel etc. shipped out to be melted down ASAP. So many questions too many cover ups. That DOES NOT make me a conspiracy theorist nor a nut. That makes me a inquisitive, thinking person.
Do you actually trust these criminals? Why? Why would you not want to know all there is to know about the towers and the reason for the quick cleanup.
I am sick and tired of being called a conspiracy theorist when I am a reasonably intelligent thinking person. All most want are questions answered. A THOROUGH investigation.
It's not like we can really believe the people in the administration is it?
Who do YOU trust? People who fix elections, torture, invade countries who have not attacked them, give take breaks to the top 1%. GIVE ME A%$#@^& break you sleeping apathetic , living in la la land ...
Don't call me a conspiracy theorist again please!
Did you know the towers were full of asbestos and could not be demolished legally. Did you know most of security was bush related. Did you know Silverstein got a nice Insurance payout? Read the material out there. There are LOTS of FACTS.
I am friggin annoyed at having to keep quiet about this with still no answers to all our questions!
(Rant off)

What do these 911 nutcases hope to prove by protesting this show? I mean, what do they think is gonna happen? Sheesh.

I don't know a hell of a lot about engineering or physics, but all I know is most of the people I've heard debunk the 9/11 truthers seem to be actual experts (engineers, Popular Mechanics, etc) while all the truthers themselves seem to be wild-eyed crazies going on about their feelings and how the things they saw on TV or heard from some regular guy on the street who heard "explosions" don't add up. And the more rational explanations they are given, the more jittery and wild eyed they get. I think the South Park episode where Cartman blames Kyle for 9/11 effectively (and humorously) shows just how silly the truthers are, and how ridiculous it would have to be if they were right: "It was only the world's most intricate and flawlessly executed plan ever, EVER." And please, before you start with your shtick about drinking Kool Aid and how I'm citing a fucking cartoon, please watch it. It really shows how ridiculous you all sound.
You guys would probably help your cause if you didn't run around like Kevin McCarthy at the end of Invasion of the Body Snatchers yelling about the Pod People. I mean, heckling a talk show? What did you think would happen, that Maher would be like, "Oh, okay, come down here and we'll forgo the pre-determined discussion with actual intelligent panelists and talk about b.s. consipiracy theories with John Q. Nutbag here." If he's a "coward" and a censor for not wanting to even dignify it with a discussion, that opens the door for just about anything. "Hey Bill, let's have a debate on whether or not the Earth is flat. What? You don't want to waste time on that? Coward!"

Cartman: "Retarded? One fourth of the population believes the government was responsible for 9/11. Do you think that one fourth of Americans are retarded?"

Kyle: "Yes. Yes I do."

I don't know if any of you fellas so lazy of mind as to call people nutcases and crazies, etc., in the face of all kinds of reasons to desist would care to bestir yourselves to find out about things that require a little concentration, but in case you really do, here.... I mean, it's really kind of creepy... as though you are hypnotized or something. If Richard Gage can't break through, we're in trouble.

The people here who are calling us nut cases are likely the very ones who said the same thing when Brad was looking into election fraud. Do you believe that was all a conspiracy too or have you finally saw the light? This government, the unelected squatters, are evil. They don't give a shit what you or I think. They got their "mission impossible" by making Iraq a hell hole, while getting rich on doing so, and will continue to do so if Hillary is nominated IMO,
They, the booshies, REALLY don't care what you think. Go ahead and defend them, maybe you are in the top 1% who will get the windfall. I hope you all move to Paraquay with bush and the Blackwater terrorists.

(Thanks Brad for allowing a thread on this. I realize it's not you topic but it's good to have a go at it every once in awhile)
It's a craw in my throat that it is hush, hush, on most sites and makes me feel like a child who is disciplined when mentioning it. (Believe me I am no child. I'm probably old enough to be your mom
We're taking advantage while you're under the weather.

tooth fairy
santa
911 Commission
a truly independent investigation of 911
the decider
mission accomplished
American values

Remember the old saying, believe half of what you see and none of what you hear before you jump to conclusions on whether it was or not 'an inside job'

(retouched ?) videos and stills are not proof IMO.

Did you know that conspiracy s are unique to the US since the founding ?
(I can only believe half of that what I read though because I saw it, if someone read it outloud to me, then I couldn't believe any of it)

Another couple of things that keep me skeptical (to the center) is the name calling and there was $billions$ to be had by the opportunists.

Once I figure out which side the distraction is coming from will I decide.

So maybe never

BigAndy @ 28
Thanks for the reference link. I have visited and it's comforting to know a lot of us "grunts" in the A/E industry are "seeing the same thing on the drawings", so-to-speak.

The other thing about Maher: it's a live show or is it live-on-tape? I have seen it in the past and had the feeling portions are edited (normally) as a live-on-tape show. If that is the case, why would Maher leave the hecklers in. If it is not, then I guess he felt he had no choice but to eject the hecklers and stay on schedule. Either way, hecklers are as much a part of a comedian's life as a politicians. How they deal with them is also a part of the comedic persona they develop. (Imagine Robin Williams in the same situation.) As to Popular Mechanics "debunking", the arguments presented there were hardly definitive. The editor re-presented them on a radio broadcast (NPR Science Friday?) and essentially sneered at his opposition claiming he had contrary evidence, but not bothering to discuss the physics itself. Some of his points were good, some were deft deflections. But the critical arguments of his detractors were left unaddressed, so it was a very selective presentation. The online version of the article's contents seems as selective to me.

So why the hell is Popular Mechanics the best vehicle to handle contrary evidence anyway? Of course it is their publisher's "right", but the US Government is at fault here for 1) doing its best to stop a serious investigation in the first place; b) thoroughly wrecking a crime-scene; and c) avoiding a serious inquiry in the most obvious-but-anomalous construction failures.

Poor Will #73, He actually believes that "Popular Mechanics" are a bunch of engineers LOL.
James Meigs and all his cohorts have degrees in nothing but journalism at best.
But since structural engineers, Physicist, & Architects are whom you might actually listen to then great here are about 197 that all say 9/11 was an inside job. With almost 500 engineering & Architectural students backing them up. They aren't Bush administration insiders and paid Reich wing hacks so you might not trust them I guess.

http://www.ae911truth.org/

Here are a bunch of other PhDs of all sorts saying 9/11 is an inside job.

http://physics911.ca/members/

Floridiot: well you live up to your name I can tell by the way you respond that there is really no reason to bother with you, you are basically like a Young Earth Creationist you have made up your mind based solely on faith in what you WANT to believe and all the overwhelming scientifically proven evidence in the world will never make any difference to you whatsoever.
That's a shame.

How about this Nunya

FUCK YOU !!!

LOL why Thank you Floridiot.
I love seeing such responses, means that you have nothing left to resort to, no evidence, no nothing just a realization of that thick wall of severe Cognitive Dissonance you have built up crumbling down.

The totality of all your responses really could be summed up in just those 2 words anyway, all you do is exactly like Reich wingers & Bushites you attack the messenger in desperation to impugn his credibility so that you don't have to debate the message.

:D That's exactly what you are doing, so I spit a little back at you...LOL

Get a grip man

So did you by chance get past 8th grade?
If so you should realise that it is physically impossible for any of those 3 buildings to have collapsed at near free fall speed simply because of fire, doesn't even matter how hot or how long it burned is completely moot.
But the fact that 2 of them burned no more than an hour and never reached remotely hot enough to cause structural failure let alone total & simultaneous Global structural failure all at the exact same instant makes it 100% impossible even with the most vivid imagination.
That dear boyE is just 8th grade physics.

Your not going to get anywhere trying to shove a stinky turd down someones throat, especially if they don't want it

Precisely, you don't "want" to know the facts the truth means nothing to you for whatever reason.
You are perfectly happy living in your little dream world.
Religious by chance?

Thank you again for proving my points so aptly.

Have a good day

Yeah, 8th grade... I was a journeyman electrician for 25 years, of that, 15 as General Foreman, worked on maybe 20 or more buildings going up, I know a little about building contruction

VERY little indeed.
Actually if I were you I would be embarrassed to admit that.

You have zero evidence, circumstantial at best if you have any at all.
I've seen lots of shortcuts taken, any one of those could cause a building to fail.
Do you think the contractor that put the trade centers up would run up to the microphone and say "We fastened the bar joists to the center columns by using cheap welding rods" ? Or inferior steel ?
A fuck of a lot happens during the build that isn't in the original design.
Corners are cut, money is saved.
Put downs are all you have now
G bye

I would like to interrupt this fascinating exchange, just to request that any one of the 9/11 skeptics who are civil-minded and constructive post a single link to a single scientific article which explains the freefall collapse of Building 7, or which rebuts any of the other scientific findings of Stephen Jones, Richard Gage et al. This is the key thing that never appears.

Those of us interested in the truth (or what is left of it) provide many references, many starting points, and if those who don't agree with us can't do the same, then that's that for the debate until the rest of you catch up.

Done interrupting --- continue ranting, provocateurs --- nice illusion you're weaving there.

*J*

P.S. Hi Brad! Nice work!

Um, I didn't say they were engineers at Popular Mechanics, I said engineers AND Popular Mechanics as two reference points. Try actually reading what I said before you make snide comments. I also love how everyone that believes the Ockham's razor version must be "Bushies." It is exactly my distrust of this administration that leads me to believe that it was a handful of foreign radicals that brought down the towers and not thousands upon thousands of federal, state and city officials working together to pull of the biggest consipiracy in the history of man. How is is that these guys could suck at literally every other endeavor (Iraq, Katrina, etc) and yet pull off this one thing so incredibly well. That to me is the biggest stretch. Don't get me wrong, I totally believe they stole the 2000 if not the 2004 election, and I totally believe they could have easily STOPPED 9/11 from happening if they had the slightest bit of competence. But to be able to pull this off would take some sort of genius that no one anywhere near the top of this total failure of an administration has.
And let me also add: Ooh, 197! Is that number seriously supposed to be impressive? You know how many wackjob ideas I could find 197 "experts" to agree with. Seriously? I mean there are millions of people who don't even fucking believe in evolution!
Now off to the outdoors to enjoy the sunshine and live in that wonderful place that is reality. Enjoy masturbating in your own feces in your little bunker yelling "The Government!" at your dog.

Hey! I have an idea, why don't you contact the local electricians union hall and talk to some of the electricans that were there for the shut down of the trade centers over the weekend before 9-11 ?
I'm sure they could tell you what was going on...no?, You don't really want to know, do ya

Nunyabiz, #67, IMHO I think you're right about this:

In fact what these few activist did was far more effective than what well in excess of 350,000 of us got accomplished in Washington DC marching around in circles like sheeple they had corralled while the Media completely ignored us.

but wrong about this:

I hope they hit his sorry ass on every single show and every single one of his stand up shows until he comes around to reason.

....because once his show was hijacked, ya lost him for good. They have earned his enmity, and he won't give the 9/11 Truth Movement another second of air-time, ever again. Stalking his shows until he is forced to 'come around' won't have the desired effect on him, and will actually make him look better in comparison.

Somebody above asked whether the show really was live or live-to-tape, and I believe the answer is both. It's taped live for the East Coast, then replayed at 11pm for the West Coast. They couldn't have cut out the hecklers for the west coast feed even if they wanted to, because they took up so much time there wouldn't be enough show.

Maybe negative attention is better than no attention at all, but it doesn't seem to enhance the overall cause of the 9/11 Truthers among the general public.

I stand corrected you did say AND Popular Mechanics.

However Popular Mechanics are experts how exactly? May as well use "Woman's Day" or "Vogue"

and yes 197 PhDs in Structural engineering, Architecture etc is one hell of a lot more "impressive" than the very few paid Reich wing shills in NIST/FEMA of which BTW gave zero conclusions at all even after 20 Million spent and 10,000 pages of pure pabulum. This is because they flatly refuse to even consider Controlled Demolition even though ALL attributes of ALL the collapses fit exactly as CD.

Now why wouldn't they even consider it at all?

It would not take "thousands and thousands" either btw, probably less than 100 total with actual knowledge of what is happening.
BTW just for reference The Manhattan Project used over 30,000 people and it was kept 100% secret for over 6 years until the minute the bomb dropped in case keeping it secret is what is hanging you up.
Operation Gladio with 1000s of agents was kept secret for 40 years.
They sucked at this false flag also because they were immediately caught because it was so sloppy and left clue after clue.
Most false flags in history IF they were EVER found out was usually decades later.
I fail to see how you could call this "incredibly well" if they phucked up anymore they may as well have left play by play plans of it in everyone's mailbox.

So how many "experts" can you produce that agree with that "whack job idea" called the Official Conspiracy Theory? Must be millions I guess.

Classic ending for someone that has nothing to back up what they are saying BTW, more attack the messenger because you have NOTHING to answer the message with.
Thanks for that, means you have just been owned by the facts.

Floridiot,

"You have zero evidence, circumstantial at best if you have any at all.
I've seen lots of shortcuts taken, any one of those could cause a building to fail."

Your words. You were there. You saw these things with your own (clouded) eyes.

How many of them have fallen?

If you were an electrician for 25 years then it's clear that you're no dummy. Any competent electrician has a good amount of common sense, least he blows his/her arms off. (I'm assuming you're not typing with a pencil in your mouth) Think of the planes crashing into the towers and the fires as a short circuit in the structural integrity of the buildings. The loads WERE transfered to the surrounding, undamaged columns. There WAS a hotter, longer burning fire (see http://www.whatreallyhap...d.com/wtc_1975_fire.html The steel didn't weaken or melt. This fire was on the 11th floor which carries a much bigger load than the damaged floors did on 9/11

I worked in the ready mix business for 20 years. I've seen concrete tested for compressive strength and know that it fractures when it fails it doesn't turn into sub component particles. If the buildings were pancaking as NIST would have us believe then the concrete, or great deal of it, would have survived broken but otherwise intact.

Shit, I don't know why I'm wasting my time trying to convince another "head in the sand" ostrich of what is obvious. Anyone who doesn't question what happened on 9/11 after all that's come after it deserves what they get.

Big Andy, I still have two arms lol, but I got slammed in the back of the head by a falling object, fucking up 'the cord', my fingers are jerky, makes it hard to type.

Anyway I'm still staying off of the demolition part of it because there is no proof yet.
It all looks very interesting to me but...I'm not ready to go there yet.
In the 70's they slapped them buildings up like the pieces of shit that they are, I know I wouldn't work in any of them for 8 a day.
And I remember it was the worst in NYC as far as quality control goes.
As long as the reactions (put downs) for not going along continue, I will be ostrichsizing right here.

I wouldn't be so dismissive of floridiot. I think we can all agree that more study is needed. Something strange definitely happened on 9/11. I wouldn't jump to conclusions just yet, though. It does seem as though something is being covered up. It could be as little as ignoring of stuctural requirements during building, or as huge as some inside job.

And then there's bldg. 7

Tx Chris...Big Andy, did you ever work construction in NYC ?.
Guido and Vido control everything there whether it be electrical, steel workers, concrete no matter what.
I'll guarantee you corners were cut, especially during the 60's and 70's

Odd then how the Engineers & Architects of the WTC won several awards for those buildings in the 70s.
The design was 16X stronger than the usual skyscraper of the day and they were the first buildings in history (other than Military & Nuclear sites)designed to withstand impacts of Jet airplanes. (which they did with no problem)
Many innovations in design, engineering and architecture began with the WTC and are now standard practice because they worked so well.
Most skyscrapers today are built like the WTC.

I believe also were the first high rise buildings designed to be able to withstand hurricane force winds.

The Structural Engineer Leslie E. Robertson is one of the most respected & honored engineers in the world.

Someone posted this link earlier but I think it bears reposting.

www.patriotsquestion911.com

in case you missed it...

www.patriotsquestion911.com

Anyone who thinks that only nutcases have doubts about the official 9/11 conspiracy theory should go here (
www.patriotsquestion911.com - third time's a charm I hope : ). Read through some of the people who have either come out saying inside job, come out questioning the cover-up, or come out questioning specific aspects of the investigation - NIST FEMA reports etc. All of them agree that a new investigation is needed. If you can go through this list of people and think that they are all nutcases, that is entirely your right. If you do retain that point of view, however, you should probably not engage in any more debates like this one because you will be coming in with the perspective that hundreds of professionals, including: engineers, architects, physicists, lawyers, PhD's etc are all nutcases; I really don't think any rational person would agree with you on that point.

Forgot to mention former military officers, intelligence officers, the former CHIEF OF NIST...

Damn, I was trying to be 100, oh well.
So #100, the design might be good (which I doubt),they designed them so they could build them on the cheap.
So all we are left is with the materials and techniques used to slap them up ?...all gone.

Yeah, 9/11 wasn't an inside job, just like global warming isn't real.

Nunya #98 and Dazz #99, 100 & 101,

It's incredible that with all those distinguished people and all that evidence there's still no congressman or senator who'll call for another investigation, a real, official investigation this time.
In "An Inconvenient Truth" Al Gore quotes Upton Sinclair: "It is hard to get a man to understand something, if his living depends on him not understanding it." It looks as though that's where Bill Maher and this congress find themselves.

It's like saying, "Show me the law that says I have to pay income tax."

Show me the data --- there must be at least half as many halfway respectable scientists willing to support the official story as there are developing alternate theories. Where are they?

I agree that approx. 200 architects and engineers isn't exactly a majority --- but show me just 5 CIVILIAN, NON-GOVERNMENT architects and engineers willing to stake their name on the other claim. I'm waiting...

Why are you so dependent on anecdotes and vague references when defending your position? Without naming any names, Floridiot should find a real reference so we can all see things from his point of view. Do your homework, man! Show us what idiots we are!

*J*

This so called Congress and I use that term loosely are 100% complicit in the crimes and cover up of these fascist as is the mainstream media.
There will be no investigation, no truth will come out until the vast majority of the American public literally plants their boot heels on many throats and starts twisting.
The election fraud is the same thing.

Now here's what I'm talkin about.
http://video.google.com/...ype=search&plindex=3

She slapped the shit out of Rummy and that stammering fuck had no answers. But what became of this? Not a damm thing.

Brad opened up an old wound with this Maher post, didn't he?

Floridiot: I understand you say you have not actually made up your mind and still want proof. That's okay by me. Several here have pointed out some links which I think are good. The point someone else made is still valid for me: the investigations to date were inadequate and beg for controversy because of what they intentionally left out or avoided. As for construction in New York City, remember the Port Authority owned the building. I am not sure about thes tate of corruption in government at the time, but that might enter into it; however, unless the concrete and steel were essentially powder to begin with, it defies explanation that tons of the stuff just vaporized without leaving a rubble pile of less than 3% of the mass of the building no matter how many bolts got left out of the connections. I think that is the point that informs me as a building professional that something isn't right. A pancake collapse leaves pancakes. Most of the building was not on fire. The steel at the base of the building was several orders of magnitude thicker than the steel from the airplane accident and above. Steel doesn't "dissolve", especially when it is cold. Concrete and deck generally don't either. The basic physics is just out of whack with the evidence. So either basic applied engineering has managed to finesse a lot of theoretical stuff until 9-11, or else something else in going on. It behooves us all to find out if only to make better buildings, but possible to make better government.

J, I'm not defending anything, just trying to show you that there is a 'reality' other than the one you have created for yourself.

The things I have seen 'in the day' were just us workers observing and talking about it amongst ourselves.
Some would open their mouths, down the road they would go, most couldn't see beyond the bolt and nut they were putting together, they always had steady work.

What can I say, it's the consruction trades

It doesn't matter how many corners were cut, how many bolts were left out, how shoddy it was which BTW is nothing but ridiculous speculation on your part.
This was the tallest building on the planet at this time hard to believe that anyone in their right mind would allow much if ANY corners to be cut in this situation. Way too many reputations depended on this building being built correctly.

But regardless even if it were the worst constructed building in human history that managed to win several awards FOR construction then it still could not in anyway possible have collapsed at near free fall speed without the use of high explosives, period.

You keep trying in desperation to make excuse after excuse yet you answer no question and have zero evidence to back up anything you claim.

Simple grade school physics literally backs up the 9/11 truth side even if you sit there and call every single witness a liar, and every single expert a nutcase, you still can not get around the absolute and irrefutable Laws of Physics without looking like a total fool.

Well I gotta go pick up a case of wine and some groceries, have a good day.

oh and the "masturbating in your feces while yelling the Government at your dog" is pretty good, don't know if I want to try that though for my new reality :p

Hey, my old man is a civl engineer for the local power co, and he even says their facts don't add up...THERE OK?

Floridiot J. Fogg! You are being obtuse on purpose. You are IGNORING the laws of physics to keep having all this fun with us. Crappily-made buildings can't defy the laws of physics any better than well-made ones.

The state of the research is not only convincing but ceases to admit of such flip arguments. I can't believe you said that!

Ancient, never did say that the facts don't line up...they don't

My mouth keeps getting filled up with words for some reason.
Some people even say I'm defending my position out of desperation too, I have no position.

Somebody tell me who is desperate here

but,but...it's fun 99 to be obtuse once in a while

(I'm just a big asshole ern't I)

Now, just 4 more and can we count you convinced J?

Funny thing, GTASH (#108), I guess it seems like an old wound to you and several others here --- but it sure didn't seem like an old wound to the victims' family members whom I met on 9/11 this year, down at Ground Zero --- joining the 5 straight days of protest happening all over the city, as a matter of fact. Has there been a sustained 5-day protest involving several hundred people against the Iraq War?

Nor did it seem like an old wound to the first responders I met, with their oxygen tanks and medicine bottles --- as around 22,000 first responders are dying, today, at this moment, the "wound" seems pretty fresh to me. Still, Bloomberg vetoed their aid bill, though S-CHIP continues to conveniently hog the spotlight.

Would people care more about what really happened if the official death toll were allowed to reach 25,000+ one day?

Find out how to help the first responders over at www.wearechange.org --- and check out some of their youtube vids. Bill Maher is small potatoes compared to the fatcats they've had the balls to confront.

*J*

P.S. Some interesting demographics regarding the people I approached on the streets of NYC this September. I randomly asked passerby "Was 9/11 an inside job?", and...

With EXTREMELY few exceptions:

African-American people over 30 instantly agreed that 9/11 was an inside job. Those under 30 looked at me like I was speaking a foreign language, and a threatening-sounding one at that.

Middle Eastern people of all ages were better informed than I was on the topic, generally speaking, and extremely happy to meet one white person who didn't at all blame them for what happened, as their post-911 reality involves far more hostility than we like to stop and realize.

And finally, white people under 30 were generally curious, even excited that someone wanted to talk to them about it. That was nice. Unfortunately, white people over 30 were by far the most unpleasant, and the only physical threats I received during this experiment were from such middle-aged white males. I think they were Democrats, too!

This makes sense, though --- middle-aged white males have the most to lose when it comes to security, pride and most important of all, belief system.

One last note --- experiential evidence led me to conclude that about one-third to one-half of the police and firefighters in NYC agreed with us --- a group of NYFD chiefs going out of their way to walk THROUGH our protest zone and stand with us for a moment during the big memorial parade.

You most certainly are! If you weren't a hunnert and two, I'd send you to your room!

For all those who think it's old news, think it's time to just let sleeping dogs lie, don't want to press for the truth because it's so much work, try reading the oral histories, that will definitely tune you up.

I sometimes think that everyone who went along with reacting like an injured lion won't look at reality now because it would make them feel too guilty and/or stupid. That heinous act, the cruelty and trauma they visited on real humans for their own selfish ends cannot be swept under the rug for such piffling excuses.

Every awful unAmerican thing that has taken place over the last six years is based on the crimes of 9/11. It is vital that we get the real perps. It might be the only way we can stop these fiends.

Nutcases, far-left woowoos, and right wing disinfo folks tag-teaming in harmony?

Agent 99 and others are making a mockery of this site, and Brad, wherever you are, you need to step in and put an end to this 9-11 disinfo crap, because it is disgusting.

The amount of lies being peddled just in this thread, sickens me. These people don't know a damn thing about physics, yet claim others are ignoring the laws of physics.

Here's a sample of the lies they peddle. In this case, they added phony sounds to an original video shot by Rick Siegel, in order to make it look like controlled demolition made the tower fall.

And lookie here.

And here.

Listen, John Dean, you don't get to call other commenters names any more than the rest. Cut it out and if you're so sickened, quit reading the thread.

actually that video shot by Siegel which was silent, they merely added the ACTUAL sound from other audio to it to give the more realistic effect of what it was like.
and I guess 100s of Firemen, Police, EMTs etc are all lying about hearing the massive explosions also right? LOL

There are several other videos where you can hear the explosions also.

and please oh grand wizard enlighten us all on the most basic Laws of Physics and how they fit perfectly with these buildings collapsing at near free fall speed, Conservation of Momentum etc.
This should be a riot, waiting....LOL

Very good GTASH #108, point taken

And, for your information, whenever poisoning-the-well maneuvers are discovered they are discredited roundly by the very community they were supposedly trying to serve. Armies of dedicated people go after each bit to check its authenticity and it is shoved out of all the reputable sites.

A video came out that very clearly impugned some so-called witnesses and a so-called expert, and I personally ran down every bit of it. While the footage was actual, it had been edited in such a way as to make it look even worse than it was, and so the entire effort was dropped like a hot potato by the truthers who might otherwise have used it.

Just as they put agents provocateurs inside demonstrations to discredit the protestors, so do they do it in the 9/11 Truth movement. Many very serious and dedicated souls work against that stuff every day of their lives.

And none of your blather addresses the FACT that in order for the official conspiracy theory to be true all kinds of laws of physics had to be broken on that day. Maybe you were in a cave and didn't see the towers going like roman candles as it happened, but I can assure you the videos were not speeded up to give the free fall speed --- that's been acknowledged by NIST --- and the pyroclastic flows were 100% real. Read the histories. Or, as I say, stop reading the thread.

John Dean: "Nutcases, far-left woowoos, and right wing disinfo folks tag-teaming in harmony?"

www.patriotsquestion911.com

Brad has been very careful not to take any position on this issue, which I understand completely since he doesn't want to alienate those readers who have been following the equally unbelievable election fraud antics going on for the past seven years. I probably wouldn't do the same thing in his position, but then again I don't know what I would do unless I were in his position.

And for those of you people with a completely closed mind about 9/11 truth, if you think that several elections could be blatantly stolen then it doesn't seem like such a stretch that a few thousand people would be slaughtered by the same people to advance their global plan. More soldiers have died in Iraq (which we all agree was pre-meditated and based on outright falsehoods for justification) than those who died on 9/11, so again, if certain elements in the establishment are willing to sacrifice so many soldiers for their global plans then why is it so hard to imagine they would do it with civilians here at home?

That's why I've always said 99, organized protests (or whatever) have to be lined up in groups of 100 or less, with an identifying feature for each group to identify the infil-traitors, otherwise it's a fuster cluck.

John,

Your examples are crap. The difference between people like you and 9/11 Truthers' is that we're open minded people who want to know the truth about 9/11. "Loose Change - The Not Freakin Again Edition" is an immature feeble attempt to debunk a documentary that asks a lot of reasonable questions. While it admits that "Operation Northwoods" WAS a proposed false flag incident, it tries to debunk the 9/11 attacks because there isn't a direct correlation between the two. Yet there is since it proves that our government isn't beyond using the tactic. You guys can't debunk the truth so you mock it instead. Keep it coming though because it always fun to see how far you'll go to perpetuate a lie.
Speaking of perpetuating a lie, I really enjoyed the Larry Craig interview.

Yeah, Flo, I try to think of the BIG one nowadays, where they won't need to put in any disturbers... won't have time for that shit... since the media won't cover them no matter how big they get, and the storm troopers keep everyone away from where they will do the most good. These jerks came in prepared for massive protest and have been fairly effective at rendering it almost meaningless on the world stage. Everyone's afraid of those concentration camps Halliburton built, but they can't work when millions are in the streets.

To J @117

By "old wound" I meant only the rather considerable volume of back-and-forth this subject invokes anytime it appears in blog-conversations. It quickly degenerates into passionate outbursts. They are honest expressions, and I respect them. At the very least, this is an unsettled matter and it doesn't help that a comprehensive and thorough investigation was not conducted. I say again that one needs to be done if only to get better buildings, but I also agree from a stricter legal point of view that the crime-scene was destroyed in advance of an open and honest forensic investigation. And I blame the Feds for that and all that followed because they took over the jurisdication and then proceeded to stymie legitimate requests for evidence and research.

It has come to light that a large amount of the dust that billowed from the towers' desctruction was laden with asbestos and other toxic contaminants. It is also true that estimates for Mr. Silverstein ran into the billions for any serious asbestos-abatement for both towers. The EPA wrongly said that this entire sector of New York was safe enough to "go back to work". Taken together, I can see a legitimate dilemma for any authority what wanted to a) look for survivors or retrieve the dead while b) trying not to disturb a crime scene and c) bring a large portion of a city (if not a nation) to a grinding economic halt. These are tough calls to make compassionately or rationally. But they seem to have been made without levelling with the people of the nation or the neighborhood, and was the first and (to my mind) the biggest mistake. Nobody: the Mayor,the Governor, the EPA, FEMA, the military or the President took the opportunity to lay-it out and give any sort of context to this very hard call. Since that time, all the barriers went up and any information we get is released grudgingly or not at all.

This is government at its worst. It makes us no safer and more suspicious.

It's been that way a long time too, when they designed DC's streets, every cross street can be fired on by a cannon from one location for that very reason.
Washington was scared shitless of another Shay's Rebellion.
The cards are dealt already.
But you knew that didn't you.

oops, my 130 was for 99 #128

I guess I better not talk about my fantasies for official DC....

I do envy the crowd scenes we get to see from many other countries, where the whole population of a city will get out in the streets together to express themselves, without being molested by the state. I don't think a lot of Americans realize how twisted our mentation is not to realize we are as self-repressed as the peoples of, say, Eastern Europe after WWII or Stalin's USSR. We've even got people coming in to warn Brad off speech on a touchy subject like they had in those places.

Talk about sickening.

Oh, and, hey, John Dean, if yer still out there, you would do very well to check this, by Naomi Wolf, out right away. It's not about 9/11; it's about the fascism taking over America. It seems to me that you particularly would benefit from close attention to her work, though certainly everyone in America should be hanging on her every word.

If you want to hear from a 9/11 witness, the last man out of the towers, William Rodriguez tells his story:

http://video.google.com/...docid=386470406528921790

(Tip: Ed Asner's intro of Rodriguez starts about 14 minutes into the video link above.)

His Website

I believe there are discrepancies large enough between the official 9/11 account and witness testimony to warrant further investigation.

- Tom

Sorry Brad, but I can't let 99's latest comment stand without a comment.

Agent 99, I'm well aware of what is happening in this country, but throwing massive amounts of paint against a wall, in hopes that some of it sticks regardless of validity, is not the way to stop them.

Cheerleading extremely questionable paint at a site dedicated to exposing truth, won't make it stick, but most certainly will reflect negatively in indirect ways.

Cheerleading outright bad paint, not only won't make it stick, but also casts grave doubt on those who try to make it stick.

No matter how much we all hate BushCo, a search for truth is exactly that - not twisted truth, not distorted truth, not made-up truth, but just plain, old-fashioned truth.

For truth does not require bullshit to aid it's quest.
Truth will stand on its own.

I can give you guys LIHOP...I, too, wonder if some folks allowed it all to happen, thus activating PNAC.

But I cannot give you guys MIHOP, because MIHOP is based on a bunch of lies and false truths.

I will not go down that road.

You need to watch Screw Loose Change. You need to watch Screw Loose Change 2. You need to sit there, and listen to the Loose Change stuff, and use your brain while the lies and distortions are exposed, one by one, and you need to wonder aloud, "why are folks putting out videos like Loose Change with lots of lies and distortions?"

I await your comments AFTER viewing them.

John

Maaaaaaaan, you are reeeeeeeeaalllllly pressing me to break the commenting rules here big time. I don't care if you can't hang with MIHOP. The laws of PHYSICS and plain sense demand it of anyone of good faith. That "Screw Loose Change" travesty you propose I endure is dis-information and if you cared as much about truth as you claim, you certainly wouldn't be stumping for that shit.

By the way, Naomi Wolf will be on C-SPAN's Book TV again in about an hour. That should be a great help.

Wow, I guess this is like deja vu - never saw this thread from last year where Joseph Cannon took you guys apart, while you kept parroting the same stuff over and over.

I noticed that 99, back then, kept parroting the same "laws of physics" stuff, just like now.

And I wonder just what is 99's background in physics. For if someone is going to keep repeating "laws of physics" over and over, they should at least have a background in physics.

Right?

Obviously this can go on and on, and it will go on and on, because some people believe things regardless of facts.

Just look at the number of folks that believe Saddam had something to do with 9-11, regardless of the evidence.

This would probably stop if lazy-minded people would get off their butts and LOOK at the evidence. Sorry I'm such a broken record about the laws of physics, but they're unbreakable, and Joseph Cannon got his ass handed to him on that thread. It doesn't matter how many times you throw around words like "nutcase" and "cheerleader" and all the other insults, the FACTS stay FACTS. The laws of physics are not changed by any amount of caterwauling. You'd have to be a nutcase or a disinformation artist to think they can. So, yes, THE LAWS OF PHYSICS STATE UNEQUIVOCALLY THAT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER BUILDINGS ONE, TWO AND SEVEN WERE BROUGHT DOWN BY CONTROLLED DEMOLITION.

Neither you, nor Mr. Cannon, have the slightest regard for anyone's credentials or intelligence. You have both made that plain over and over and over again. So I still refuse to state mine for you, and insist that if you will not bother yourselves to study the matter carefully, continually shooting your mouths off with this DISORIENTINGLY stupid smearing and snarking where genuine discourse belongs, you should not be surprised when people stop taking you seriously on anything.

I mean, obviously, if you cannot find it in yourself to get a good enough grasp on physics to see 9/11 for what it was, when the fate of the whole world depends on it, who's going to trust what you say about election fraud, or anything?

It's blaringly obvious that dirt laziness is the ONLY explanation for why you haven't changed your awful tune in all this time. It's pathetic. It's feeble, despite it's "tough" tone.

Pull yourself together.

Over and over and over - "the laws of physics..."

Large airplanes fly into the towers, at speeds close to 500 MPH, filled with thousands of gallons of jet fuel.

Fires burned, transformers popped, all sorts of electrical wiring burned, and here's the part they can never deal with...National Geographic's documentary clearly shows a closeup on steel buckling from the heat, right before one of the towers collapsed.

So we've got fast big planes, jet fuel, fires, buckling steel, lies and lies in movies like Loose Change...

BUT THE LAWS OF PHYSICS ARE THE LAWS OF PHYSICS!

And that is the best you can do.

Let's highlight your neat quote:

"THE LAWS OF PHYSICS STATE UNEQUIVOCALLY THAT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER BUILDINGS ONE, TWO AND SEVEN WERE BROUGHT DOWN BY CONTROLLED DEMOLITION."

Please point me to a physics textbook...any physics textbook, where these laws of physics are mentioned.

Tic toc tic toc

BTW 99, let's highlight this quote of yours too...

"I mean, obviously, if you cannot find it in yourself to get a good enough grasp on physics to see 9/11 for what it was, when the fate of the whole world depends on it, who's going to trust what you say about election fraud, or anything?"

Perhaps that's exactly what your agenda here is.

Here's another quotable quote for you:

Sometimes I think the high school debating team geeks go forth into adulthood thinking that cleverisms will get them everything.

We're not talking about doctorate level physics, just some careful attention to, I repeat, FACTS will end up putting anyone inquiring in good faith onto the realities that are not only being ignored but forming the basis for a fascist takeover of our country and putting our military out there invading other countries for their resources.

Step back and take a gander at how ridiculous your position is. You are calling the reliance on hard science crazy. We're "nutcases" for resisting all your inducements to ignore physical reality.

This is not an issue where indefatigable debating can render it resolved. That's only when there's more than one viable option for a course of action, not when the discernment and assimilation of basic facts, physical realities, is the mandate.

It could conceivably become my agenda to discourage people from getting anywhere near you. I honestly do not feel good about your ability to cope intellectually with anything as vital as elections, given the quality of your input here. You don't seem the least embarrassed about coming off like a good Nazi and warning Brad off uncomfortable subjects. I vaguely remember being irked by you quite awhile ago and thinking it was a travesty you were taking a patriot's name for a screen name, but Brad popped up and said it's your real name. So, from what little experience I have with you, yes, I can already tell that I'm never going to want to take anything you say at face value. I will have to check it thoroughly... if you ever manage to say anything that could be deemed important enough, that is.

steel buckling from the heat

of EXPLOSIVES, of MILITARY GRADE INCENDIARIES.

For fucksakes, John! Do the work! Pay attention. Any physics text that includes conservation of momentum should do, or you could simply try reading or listening to any of several professors, physicists, structural engineers and demolitions experts, most of whom lost their jobs for speaking out, and begin to get a grasp. [I bothered to link you to a really good guy, who's really pretty clear, upthread, but you could try The Journal of 9/11 Studies, too.]

You'll want to run down the specs for how hot jet grade kerosene can get and how hot steel has to get for how long to weaken even slightly. Then maybe you can stop doing it the hard way and concentrate on how absolutely no other means but timed explosives could account for the speed at which the towers evaporated and number seven plopped into its own footprint.

And now I'll take the gloves off too...

I believe you have ulterior motives for being involved with BradBlog. No responsible person would have cheerleaded this thread the way you have done.

You say "We're not talking about doctorate level physics, just some careful attention to, I repeat, FACTS will end up putting anyone inquiring in good faith onto the realities that are not only being ignored but forming the basis for a fascist takeover of our country and putting our military out there invading other countries for their resources."

I say - so you don't have physics on your side after all, after claiming over and over and over, for over a year, that the "laws of physics" blah blah blah. You then insert "the basis for a fascist takeover" into your long sentence, as if the fact that BushCo and company exist proves 9-11 CT. You are dead wrong - BushCo is BushCo, and 9-11 CT is exactly that. Yes, 9-11 was a stroke of good luck for the evil BushCo, who used it as an excuse to do a tremendous amount of damage to this nation. But no, that does not prove in any way that BushCo was behind 9-11, and does not prove in any way that controlled demolitions brought the towers down. In order to believe the crap you cheerlead here, I would have to believe that explosives were placed into the towers and #7 prior to the airplanes being hit. There is not a single shred of evidence that someone put explosives in them before the planes hit, so how am I supposed to believe that this is what happened? Yet you cheerlead it on and on, which means the explosives must have been there before the planes hit. Indeed, my your cheerleading, you have reached the conclusion that it was not enough to fly airplanes into the towers, it was not enough to see them on fire and people jump...no, BushCo had to actually bring the buildings down in order to rally folks to support his subsequent actions! Are you really this naive? Do you really believe that planes crashing into the towers WAS NOT ENOUGH to rally Americans to support his agenda for awhile?????

You say "Step back and take a gander at how ridiculous your position is."

I say - It's your position that the towers had to come down by explosives...that planes flying into them wasn't enough! It's your position that explosives were planted beforehand, even though there is not a shred of evidence to support this, not mine! It is your position that supports stuff like Loose Change, which does not show the side of WTC7 that was smoking like the fires in Southern Cal right now, and it's my position that Loose Change didn't show the other side of WTC7 because if you saw the other side, you would know that the building was doomed...NOT FROM EXPLOSIVES, but from structural damage and fire.

You say "You are calling the reliance on hard science crazy."

I say - You don't have any hard science! People like you try to compare 9-11 with buildings that are brought down by CD, but none of you have ever seen a building hit by large airplanes going 500 MPH with thousands of gallons of jet fuel...it is an event that has never happened before, and yet you people try to link to buildings that have been brought down by CD as if all that jet fuel, and the speed of the planes, and all the fires, had nothing whatsoever to do with the towers coming down. AND NOTE - YOU STILL REFUSE TO DISCUSS IN ANY WAY THE NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC VIDEO, WITH CLOSEUPS OF STEEL BUCKLING RIGHT BEFORE YOUR EYES, RIGHT BEFORE A TOWER FELL. Why don't you watch it? Why don't you comment about it? Why do you ignore it?

You say "I honestly do not feel good about your ability to cope intellectually with anything as vital as elections, given the quality of your input here."

I say - I most certainly feel the same way about you. And as for your opinion of me, I couldn't give a damn - my research is well-known and solid, while your limited research re: quotes from people at 9-11 hearings was selective, and out of context.

It is you with the ulterior motives here. A search for truth requires examination of all evidence, and not just evidence one likes, or is happy with. If your concern was the truth, you would be issuing a point-by-point rebuttal to Screw Loose Change, instead of trying to put a blanket over everyone's objectivity by chalking everything up to "the laws of physics."

So where is that textbook?

Your research can't be worth diddly if you have to ask me for a textbook on a subject taught in almost all schools. Google "conservation of momentum" and pick, and go to that journal I just linked.

I don't have a clue who you are or what you do beyond Brad once saying your name is really John Dean and you are involved in elections integrity somehow. And I don't care to know even that much with all your exhausting and somewhat paranoid blather. Evidently you think you are someone to be reckoned with. I think you are tedious and I just don't know how much plainer I, or a number of others here, can be.

My quotes from first responders were selected to reflect where they had mentioned explosions. The sole purpose of the post was to give a feeling for the number of firsthand witnesses who had reported explosions. There were many, many more than I quoted. I also linked each of the depositions for people to read themselves.

You and Joe Cannon seem to have a pathological aversion to sense, and I'm sorry if it offends you to have someone answering back to all your insulting pronouncements on this thread, but I happen to feel a duty to a number of dead people and a growing number of dying first responders to make sure guys like you don't just get away with your miserable attempts to befuddle people the more.

And:

-- all that jet fuel, which is just high grade kerosene, burnt off in a matter of minutes, most of it OUTSIDE the buildings;

-- the towers were built to withstand those impacts and not only DID withstand them, but could have withstood more;

-- people were standing in the impact holes and waving, something they could not have done if the fires were even a tenth as hot as they'd have to have been;

-- people in floors directly adjacent to those fires were recorded talking to the 911 operators for minutes on end, another impossibility if those fires had been sufficient to melt or even weaken steel;

-- and, dude, the thermate and cutting charges DEFINITELY gave off quite enough heat to buckle steel and it absolutely would have been doing that RIGHT before the towers disintegrated... what's your point?

-- molten steel was pouring out of one corner of the building before they were blown, a property of military grade incendiaries (thermate particularly) AND molten metal was pooled under all three buildings for weeks afterward, mountains of evidence for that, another thing outright impossible for jet fuel to accomplish....

What the hell is wrong with you?

Do you know that you can't melt steel in an open air fire? It can't get hot enough. It has to be done under special conditions --- like at the steel mills --- in blast furnaces --- where extra air is blasted to create enough heat... or with the chemical reaction of thermate... and in this case it kept reacting for weeks afterward.

This is all known facts and science, not speculation... not making anything up. You can, and you so seriously should, check it all out.

What in the hell would be the purpose of lying about such a thing? You can call people kooks till the cows come home, but, truly, why would so many obviously good people dedicate their lives to this if there were not absolutely compelling evidence? All of them have everything to fear and so little to gain personally and yet they have dedicated themselves to it body and soul. Thousands and thousands of them now. When will there be enough people standing up for the truth that you will finally cease impugning them? Is there a particular person whose word you would take?

I just want to come in to state the obvious, which somehow hasn't been stated yet.

LOOSE CHANGE IS NOT THE AUTHORITATIVE SOURCE ON 9/11. IT IS, INDEED, FULL OF MISTAKES, WHICH ITS MAKERS HAVE ALREADY ADMITTED TO.

*SOMEHOW*, LOOSE CHANGE BECAME THE FAMOUS ONE, WHEN THERE WERE BETTER-MADE, MORE ACCURATE FILMS OUT. "SCREW LOOSE CHANGE" TAKES ADVANTAGE OF THIS NOTORIETY.

John Dean, I'm hereby requesting a direct rebuttal to Richard Gage's presentation. Seen it? A link to Screw Loose Change means nothing to me.

Anything that happened the moment before the buildings collapsed (steel buckling, etc.) does not explain how all 100+ floors disintegrated at once. That is the question I am posing to you, along with one other:

Besides Loose Change, what other research have you done? Too many people, whether by accident or design, solely view Loose Change, correctly decide it's amateurish BS, and go back to the comfortable illusion of left-right dialogue on the TV. You?

*J*

Endnote: Also saw a screening of most of the "Final Cut" of Loose Change in NYC --- It is *completely* different, and seemed pretty airtight this time. Nobody, not even its makers, are standing by the previous versions. So please stop holding it up as the 9/11 Bible or something.

*J*

Oh! Thanks. I was going to say that about ten times and forgot all ten.

Not sure if this video-embed will work here, but this is Richard Gage's presentation. I'm pasting the HTML link below in case you can't watch it from here.

http://video.google.com/...99586663939158659&q

The Gage presentation is an interesting one. Mr. Gage borrows from a number of sourcces and goes over the main structural arguments adding a a kind of assessment matrix (goals and objectives when taking down a building) to compare normal procedures with the observable Trade Center data. He concludes controlled demolition. He steers clear of most conspiracy stuff while suggesting there are links you can examine---all this sounds to me like a pretty straightforward presentation by an architect to an audience--one who is trying to stick to the stuff he knows professionally. But he is clearly suspicious of the official explanations and presents enough coherent argument together to raise legitimate questions.

His work is not flawless. A trip to some contrarian websites (9-11 Scholars for Truth and others have competing rings of contrary analysts in academia) is enlightening. But for me that just heightens my curiosity: none of these arguments, their discussion, proffer of evidence, or even the disputes about what to conclude are represented in the NIST reports, the FEMA report, or the Commission's report. Why is it people on either side of the issue use scads of photo evidence of the aftermath, but don't date or credit it, nor have photographer affidavits? A simple thing. It would certainly help when reviewing the argument about how much concrete was pulverized and steel vaporized at The Pile---yes the photos seem to exist from both sides of the argument, but when they were taken and "at what" (the Natural Pile or a bulldozed pile) would certainly aid us. Stuff like this is sloppy investigation from which only sloppy conclusions can and will be drawn. Everybody is building on a house of cards to arrive at a conclusion.

Yeah I was just going to mention that also, "Loose Change" the first version which was one of the first bits of information to come out several years ago did have a few mistakes in it, which both the authors have fully admitted AND CORRECTED is of course the only things these 9/11 Creationist like John Dean will attack because it is by far the weakest link and after all the only argument they have is to attack the messenger because all the REAL evidence and the Laws of Physics are on the side of 9/11 truth.

Mr. Dean here will attack the messenger, spew pure bullshit quoted from websites that have been thoroughly debunked long ago and many times, and or just simply pull crap outa his ass because he is just like a Young Earth Creationist has basically staked his life on what he WANTS to believe, has probably spent years arguing like this without even doing ANY honest investigation at all he WANTS to believe what he is saying so he actively goes out and seeks any bullshit he can find that agrees with that pathetically bias viewpoint.
This is the exact same phenomena we see with such brain trust as Young Earth Creationist, it does not matter to them at all what the FACTS are, they have FAITH that the Earth is 6000 years old because in some bizarre twisted mythological begatting in a book of which no one has a clue whom wrote that was strangely pieced together over about 800+ years of patchwork allegorical stories, parables, homilies all of which Archeology proves has come from ancient paganism of Sumeria, Kemet & Babylon.
Yet THIS is what they "choose" to "believe" because they "want" to or their little fantasyland will crumble around them, the absolutely overwhelming 21st century scientific FACTS be damned.

John Dean and those like him are unreachable they are literally "9/11 Creationist" so no amount of evidence no matter how irrefutable or what the source will EVER make any difference to someone like this.
His mind is made up, he has blocked out all other information with severe Cognitive Dissonance.

I have asked a couple of valid questions during this thread, take note that none of these 9/11 creationist will ever answer them because they cant without sounding like a complete idiot.
For instance:

how do several massive steel beams & columns weighing many tons each get BLOWN across West 57th St. some 400-600' away?

This is of course to anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together to get a spark an IMPOSSIBLE action if indeed these buildings simply collapsed due to fire damage & gravity. To 9/11 Creationist this question is to be avoided at all cost in the same manner that YEC avoid the 100s of 1000s of fully corroborated Radiometric dating test done by 1000s of scientist around the world.
All they can do is put their fingers in their ears while shouting LALALALALALALALa! its all they got.
For the most part that is all JD and a few others have done all through this thread.

How did approx. 1150 human bodies get completely vaporized, some 1700 others get BLOWN into little tiny bits that were collected in 20,000 Test Tubes?
How were at least 760 small shards of bone BLOWN across the street over 400-500' away?

They will avoid this question like the plague also because there is only ONE answer....High Explosives
Simple gravity has no where even close to the energy output required to do this to 1000s of human bodies.

How was approx. 90%+ of all the 1000s & 1000s of tons of reinforced concrete turned into talcum powder fine dust that covered most of Manhattan and even into New Jersey?

Again this is 100% impossible without the use of High Explosives, simple gravity collapse does not even come close to the energy output needed to do this.
Yet the 9/11 Creationist if they even respond to it will present something equally as insane as what a YEC would say about Evolution.
People like this are unreachable, will never listen to any evidence regardless where it comes from or how irrefutable it is.

They deny the Laws of Physics.
Apparently believe that 100s of Firemen, Police, EMTs etc are all lying about the massive explosions they all heard and the devastation they all saw in the lobbies and basements which could have only been done by Explosives.
They amazingly have been conned into believing that simple Jet fuel which is basically just Kerosene can magically melt or at least weaken ASTM E119 rated steel assemblies.
Kerosene has a MAX attainable temp of 1820F under absolutely ideal burn conditions like in a carburetor being force fed pure oxygen.
In an open fire also called a "dirty Burn" Kerosene rarely if ever can reach more than 600F and it burns off very quickly similar to alcohol.
All the Kerosene did was light an office fire of mostly fire retardant material, and as witnessed by the copious amounts of thick black smoke was well on its way to being extinguished by the buildings sprinkler system, also a fireman reaching the 78th floor minutes before the building was imploded said that he only needed 2 lines to put the fire out.
If the fire was some raging inferno how was he standing right there and saying he only needed two hoses to douse it?

These towers were immensely overbuilt they had a 600% redundancy.
IF this short duration (56 & 85min)fire of which even NIST admits they have no confirmation at all that the steel even reached more than 492 F was somehow magically able to reach hot enough temps which in just an hour or so (that's is all the time available) would have to be basically white hot (excess of 2000+F which did not happen) in order to get THE STEEL to reach over 1022F and do so for a sufficient amount of time to virtually ALL OF THE STEEL, some 500,000 tons of it acting like a huge radiator in order to get the steel to lose approx. 40% of its "Rated" strength which BTW leaves 60% of its rated strength which means the steel assemblies would have still been able to support over 300% of its rated load.
These fires did not burn remotely hot enough for even a fraction of the time needed nor were they even close to as widespread enough to weaken these steel assemblies enough to cause any collapse let alone catastrophic simultaneous global collapse of the entire building at near free fall speed turning 425,000 cubic yards of reinforced concrete, 1000s of windows and various other solid materials into talcum powder fine dust that acted exactly like a pyroclastic flow.

The 9/11 Creationist have been conned into believing the absolutely impossible because this is what they WANT to believe. Until they want to believe the truth backed up with irrefutable evidence then nothing said will ever make any difference.

I looked but I could not find a simulation prototype of the actual attack, given the same data of airlines, buildings, fuel, location, what would scientifc evidence prove. It would be very interesting to see an actual prototype of the towers of a scientific simulation of the attack. What would the towers look like afterwards? I am not a scientist, but I feel the simulation prototype would be very different than the actual attack. Bill Maher claims to be a "realist", a scientific prototype of the attack and what the towers would appear afterwards, should open the eyes of "realists" and nay-sayers.

"Brave and devoted souls. Real Americans. Maybe he'll think twice now before cracking wise about people with more heart and courage than he could ever dream of having."

More like immature little cunts who scream abuse at people who don't buy into thier bizare delusions. FUCK thier "heart" and "Courage"

Mugzi #153
I don't know if I'd call Bill Maher a "realist". I'd be more inclined to use a word like "dupe" or "simpleton". When he makes statements such as "How big a lunatic do you have to be to watch two giant airliners packed with jet fuel slam into buildings on live TV, igniting a massive inferno that burned for two hours, and then think, well, if you believe that was the cause?" it just shows how baffled he must be after a David Copperfield special. That's hardly all 9/11 truth is about. 9/11 is radioactive for all but a few of the most honest of the media and our political leaders and I'm afraid we won't make much progress looking to an intellectually dishonest coward such as Bill.

BTW if you go to his official site you'll find his chat forum is still down. Looks like Bill knows what kind of an ass kicking is in store for him.

BA, I'm from Missouri and the motto is "show me". If there is a scientific prototype with the exact criteria as the attack, would the outcome be the same?? If there is nothing to be afraid of, what would it hurt?? This is very simplistic, but when demolition companies level a building in an urban area, the building is pretty much gone - dust. We have all seen pictures of WWII and airplanes bombed buildings in Germany and England - planes even hit the buildings blowing up the building and planes. They didn't exactly turn to powder. There was still some resemblence of a structure - hardly dust. Back in 2004 many of us knew the voting machines had been hacked and tampered with. Some of us at work were expecting this and we discussed it. One fellow was outraged that we would be talking about it! He got red face, loud, that nothing like that could happen in this country. We know the outcome of that!!! Unfortunately, 9/11 may fall in similiar situation! Sorry to burst your bubble!

Mugzi

They worked on that prototype for a long time, but could not get the steel to fail....

Chris Mankey

Don't tase me, bro.

OK, so let me get this straight. Bill Maher, more a comedian than a political analyst, makes a joke about the 9/11 Truth folks. 9/11 Truth folks can't take a joke, heckle his live show. People criticize hecklers, again 9/11 folks can't take a joke, and rant and rave throughout the blogosphere about how no one takes them seriously.

Well, I think that about sums it up.

Besides, I think what Bill is saying is this: The point is not who knew and who didn't know, or whether there were "inside people". That is a debate (like Zapruder, or Area 51) that is unlikely to EVER yield evidence that satisfies one side or the other. THE POINT IS to look at what is going on around us NOW and have an impact on the FUTURE rather than obsessing over the PAST.

John

The grates on your stove's gas burners are steel. Wood burning stoves are steel. And they both sustain flame hotter than at the WTC for hours on end, daily, for decades, maybe centuries, with no damage.

All that dust was filled with itsy metal balls, globules of vaporized metal that cooled into little beads as it flew through the air.

99 If you mean the Floor Assemblies test NIST did not only could they not get it to fail but they turned up everything way past known parameters. In fact they completely threw out their empirical data they collected in actual burn test.

They turned the heat up twice as hot, let it burn twice as long and added twice as much weight on top and still could not get more than 4" of sag in the trusses to try and make the structure fail.
In order to get it to fail BTW there needed to be 54" of sag that is how far away from failure they were even with double everything.

http://911research.wtc7....ewstandard.html#labtests

Even the former Chief of the Fire Science Division of NIST for 19 years wants a new "REAL" investigation.

http://jeremiasx.wordpre...questions-wtc-collapses/

Without trying to elicit a FU response let me make an observation. Floridiot mentioned that he was an electrician. I have worked closely with many electricians for years now. The thing about the construction field is that it is not known for it's intellectualness in individuals. Mainly people like their sports, hate mexicans, and love the government.

Now obviously you can't put in complicated electrical circuits and be a complete moron, but what construction workers lack is the ability to think outside the box.

Floridiot (and others )are acting all HARD about this issue. When we question the official story we are not attacking the patriotism that some of you strongly feel. I think that like a sports fan you are seeing no wrong from your team. Those of us who can readily understand the arguments of physics have something that those of you who refuse to listen to don't have.

Namely we don't trust the government do to X reasons. I think that when you hear people saying that something was fishy about this whole deal you go into the defensive because it is somehow destroying your honor. I understand that you have a certain perception of what it is to be an american citizen, what it is to give your life for your country. You have a view of our government that has to be rosy in order for your view of america to exist. But let me repeat this WE ARE NOT Saying that you don't love your country. What we are saying is that the official story stinks and here is why. WE don't need to throw spagetti, look at "the moon landing is faked" arguments, THAT is spagetti.

We are the same people who said that Bush was full of shit claiming that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.
We cannot afford to have opinions any more on stuff your side keeps getting wrong. Our side is learning from our mistakes of communicating our ideas to the masses who feel their government is the same Leave it to Beaver had to deal with. I'm truly sorry for all of you patriots that things changed recently and no one told you. That the government that you love and have given so much to has turned on you.
That right now it is still inconceivable that maybe we attacked ourselves.

The anger that the disbelievers feel is coming from your reality crashing down. You can not look at this issue and come to any conclusion other then it was an inside job. There are to many paths that lead to the same place. It is Fact plain and simple.

Where the Hell is all of your apology's for being wrong on Iraq. Oh yeah we didn't get one and instead got why your side is still right.

But to all who persist in your repetition of words like Nutcase and Liberal dumbshit:

We're not so different, you and I. We get it. We're not brainiacs on the nerd patrol. We're not members of the factinista. We go straight from the gut, right sir? That's where the truth lies, right down here in the gut. Do you know you have more nerve endings in your gut than you have in your head? You can look it up. I know some of you are going to say I did look it up, and that's not true. That's cause you looked it up in a book.

Next time, look it up in your gut. I did. My gut tells me that's how our nervous system works. Every night on my show, the Colbert Report, I speak straight from the gut, OK? I give people the truth, unfiltered by rational argument. I call it the "No Fact Zone." Fox News, I hold a copyright on that term.

I'm a simple man with a simple mind. I hold a simple set of beliefs that I live by. Number one, I believe in America. I believe it exists. My gut tells me I live there. I feel that it extends from the Atlantic to the Pacific, and I strongly believe it has 50 states. And I cannot wait to see how the Washington Post spins that one tomorrow. I believe in democracy. I believe democracy is our greatest export. At least until China figures out a way to stamp it out of plastic for three cents a unit.

""The point is not who knew and who didn't know, or whether there were "inside people". That is a debate (like Zapruder, or Area 51) that is unlikely to EVER yield evidence that satisfies one side or the other. THE POINT IS to look at what is going on around us NOW and have an impact on the FUTURE rather than obsessing over the PAST"".

Unbelievable what some people say.

Number one 9/11 is in no way even close to something as abstract as Area 51 or even Zapruder, the evidence that supports Controlled Demolition is literally overwhelming, we aren't talking guess work we are talking several things happened that day that could ONLY have happened if explosives were used PERIOD no ifs no ands or butts...PERIOD.

and what is going on around us NOW is solely because of 9/11, same with what is about to happen in the near future (We are going to be bombing Iran within 6 months)
Need to open your eyes.

This country is being taken over by a cabal of fascist nut bags.

That's not it at all Crackermack. Here's what's got all the 9/11 Truther's pissed off.
His line about if you watch airplanes full of fuel fly into iconic buildings and explode into flames and can't believe that was what caused the towers to fall (which doesn't even take Bldg 7. into account) then you're a whackjob, furthers the BRAINWASHING that this cabal of criminals that are the current administration has used to pacify the ignorant American public.

Whether or not this debate ever satisfies one side or the other depends an awful lot on whether our media, which includes Bill Maher, allows this debate to proceed in an orderly manner with each side allowed to present their case, under oath with the force of law.

And as for looking at what's going on now.
A war started by an administration that lied us into it.
1000's of dead American servicemen and 100,000's of dead, inocent Iraqi civilians.
The massive erosion of our civilion rights, including warrant less wiretapping, the suspension of habius corpus, torture and rendition.
and on and on and on...........
All brought about by what happened on 9/11 that has still not been thoroughly investigated,i'm REAL interested in impacting the future by exposing the illusions in our past.

Nunyabiz - I'm not using Area 51 or Zapruder as moral or factual equivalents, but moreso representative of the divisiveness that exists between the believers and the non-believers. Like those two historical "truthfulness" debates, 9/11 is unlikely to ever uncover that one unifying piece of evidence that silences the debate.

we aren't talking guess work we are talking several things happened that day that could ONLY have happened if explosives were used PERIOD no ifs no ands or butts...PERIOD.

Well, unfortunately, there appears to still be some debate on this topic. Hence this entire thread.

and what is going on around us NOW is solely because of 9/11, same with what is about to happen in the near future (We are going to be bombing Iran within 6 months)
Need to open your eyes.

Exactly my point. Regardless of your feelings on 9/11 I think that believers and non-believers can both look at the events since 9/11 and find plenty of disturbing developments done in the name of fighting against those responsible. Regardless of who was responsible for 9/11 do any of us agree with the illegal wiretapping? Torture and detainment without charges? The Patriot Act?

This country is being taken over by a cabal of fascist nut bags.

AGREED!

So I have to admit, the passion which with you "truthers" shouted at me this weekend made me realize I should do a little more research, it was 2:00 in the morning and I just felt like starting some shit. So sorry about the whole "masturbating in your own feces" line. However, I did spend a lot of time at this site: http://www.debunking911.com/ and it really did a clear & consise job of handling every question I've read here with calm, expert, peer-reviewed precision. Unlike me, it took the skeptics' concerns seriously, without resorting to namecalling (like me) or all-caps, bold, repetious yelling about how obvious it's opinions were correct (like you guys).
I really only found bradblog because I saw the Maher show on Friday and wanted to see what the blogosphere had to say, and this popped up on Google. I must say I feel sorry for this Brad guy, it seems his blog centers around a REAL conspiracy (voting fraud) which seems infinitely more plausible and doesn't require a massive conspiracy of murderers. And yet it's comment board has been hijacked with a much more dubious brand of skeptics. So again, sorry to troll earlier, but I must say I've gone and read both the truthers' websites and the debunker's websites with a much more open mind, and the "controlled demolition" theory just doesn't hold water for me. I really do hope you guys find a more useful outlet for your outrage at this administration, and stick to the evil things they are ACTUALLY responsible for.

Good day.

LOL and to us that is literally unbelievable.

The "debunking 9/11" website is so full of errors one would not know where to begin.

again it is the exact same phenomena we see with the likes of Young Earth Creationist.
If you were a Young Earth Creationist you would go on Evolution, Science sites and see NOTHING whatsoever to sway your opinion.
Now is that Creationist right or wrong?

Just because you fail for some odd reason to see the obvious doesn't change the facts.

http://www.prisonplanet..../220906debunksitself.htm

Oh and BTW you 9/11 Creationist are aware I assume that those of us that know that 9/11 was an inside job or at least have serious doubts represent at least 40% of this country and growing fast right?

and that I might add is with a complete media blackout of the facts AND pure bullshit propaganda spread by the entire Mainstream media exactly like they did with the Election Fraud.
Those of us that know the election was stolen are about the same percentage that know 9/11 was an inside job.
There are plenty of loons that fully believe the past 2 elections were clean as can be.

When they come on this site even with all the massive evidence of blatant voter fraud you know what they see?

a bunch of nutcases that they feel are unpatriotic, un American and Bush haters.

They see only what they WANT to see.

See the correlation?

Glad you can laugh, Nunya! Sometimes I think my bones are going to turn to powder over the obviously pervasive total lack of understanding of even the most basic physical realities. There are a lot of things that are debatable about 9/11, but the controlled demolition part isn't one of them, and yet so many just go on as if it were. They think the insistance on observing the laws of physical reality is crazy. This just blows my mind. Thinking the airplanes caused that destruction is akin to having watched those towers shoot into space and thinking the airplanes did it, but not many seem at all embarrassed about it. I'm beginning to think our society has all kinds of nerve acting as though it has anything more on the ball than naked heathens in the jungle.

Of course, the best way to convince people you're right is to tell them that they're so stupid for not already knowing you're right.... right? Simply pound your fist while screaming "BUT IT'S SOOO OBVIOUS!"

People ask for these facts you find so obvious, and we're sent to 50 different web sites with "experts" all arguing slightly different versions of the "obvious truth".

What *would* convince me? Dunno. How about proof? Not "hey it's unlikely that a plane could have caused this kind of damage" I can see where that comes from. . I mean actual proof like "hey, here's a memo from George to Dick asking if the incendiary charges placed in the WTC could be painted Texas Orange" or "hey, here's a part of a bomb we found strapped to a basement support."

For example, you buy a new chair. One day, you go to sit in the chair, and it collapses. You know that the chair was designed to handle you sitting in it. So what went wrong? My next logical step is not to assume that someone secretly weakened the chair in an attempt to take over the country. It's probably on the list somewhere, but it's sure not #1 and it most certainly isn't the TRUTH simply because it's possible.

Now, before you start screaming that I'm an idiot and if I just looked at the Laws of Physics, etc. The fact is, that outside of a Physicist convention, I have never seen so many Physics Experts gathered in one place! I am not a Physicist. But I'm also pretty sure you're not either. At best you're repeating what you've read on some other website, and even though it's not Wikipedia, it's still probably not 100% on target when it comes to the truth .

And I'd also like to discourage the "hey 40% of all people agree with us, so we're right" line of thinking. For both sides. In my experience the majority is almost always wrong... or at least shouldn't be trusted.

Agent 99, I agree with you. It's mind-boggling how people who otherwise appear to be adults can either 1.completely fail to grasp what we are talking about, no matter how simple of terms we put it in; things that someone who passed science class in elementary school would have no problem understanding, they instead show slack-jawed ignorance and a total inability to use logic and reasoning; OR 2.are so breathtakingly cowardly that they can't summon up the balls to see glaring obvious realities that are staring them in the face, and will say "yeah, but..." a million times no matter how much evidence you show them. Can anyone really be that stupid/cowardly? Or are they just sent here to be defenders of the official fairy tale? Sort of a more mobile version of Joe Cannon? It makes my fucking brain hurt to listen to the closeminded idiocy of the official myth's defenders. Makes me want to puke. Are you people so effing brainwashed that you won't see reality unless Cheney comes on t.v. and says "Yeah, it was an inside job. What are you gonna do about it?".

In addition to their lack of reasoning ability/abject psychological cowardice (or being disinfo shills, one or the other) regarding the painfully obvious controlled demos, they make me wonder how many "coincidences" and "discrepancies" have to pile up before their gag reflex kicks in or their olifactory glands say "something smells fishy here"?? Further, (if they are in fact genuinely obtuse/chickenshit) it amazes me how people who appear to have spent no time whatsoever looking into the details of 9/11 and take it entirely at face value can think their opinion means a fucking thing in comparison to people who have actually taken the time, made the effort, and found the courage to look into it. Bizarre.

At least we know they are part of a shrinking minority of people who think the official myth adds up. The latest Zogby poll shows a majority of Americans want a new (read: REAL) investigation into 9/11, one that investigates Cheney and Bush for complicity.
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1354
How's it feel Cheney apologists to both be wrong and in the minority?

Ha ha ha. Wow. I take back when I took back the childish name-calling earlier, that seems to be the level of discourse here. I was kind of skeptical about the contradictory websites I found, but the fact that the only counterargument you could make was through a website by Alex Freaking Jones, I feel a lot better now. See, I live in Austin so I can see that guy's show on cable access any day of the week. Now I have some idea on what level you guys are operating on. And besides, that was one of about 25 websites I perused over this weekend (on both sides of the "debate" you guys don't seem to think exists) and I chose that one just because it had handy little tabs for every argument I've read here. But you guys and Alex Jones are right, I guess if there are spelling errors then it negates every plausible explanation I read.
And if you don't see the irony in saying something so hotly debated is undebatable then there's really no point in continuing the discussion.
Also, thanks for using the "40% believe it to be true" argument again as well (please see aforementioned South Park quote). Well, I guess that disproves evolution too. Stephen Colbert's "wikiality" at its finest.
The best part about all this is how every comment I make there is a reply like ten minutes later. I really do worry for your health, guys.
I'm seriously done now, I've wasted enough brain cells (and man-hours on my work computer today) on this. So you two can continue your self-congratulatory intellectual circle jerk about how right you are and how dumb everyone else is. I won't get in the way with my naive views. But that could just be the government-planted chip in my brain talking. Gleep Glorp!

No, Will, as regards the one issue of controlled demolition, it is just like picking up a glass of red wine and a bunch of people going, "Great beer, ain't it!" It is NOT debatable that it is red wine because a bunch of people say it's beer. THAT is why some of us seem so stubborn to you. We aren't letting a bunch of flapping lips call something actual something delusory. Simple as that.

It's as though Franz Mesmer has reincarnated and gotten the hang of mass media.

Scary shit.

Will # 165 Just so you know this is the FIRST thread (maybe second in four years) on Bradblog regarding 9/11. (I have been visiting since early 05) Election fraud is what this site is about and that is what most of us are concerned about and why I visit.
That does not mean I don't have concerns in other areas but will continue to visit and learn about election irregularities from the "Bradman" because that is what is most important and he does a fantastic job of digging up the dirt. Without honest elections the rest is moot.

Will: Before you go, see if you can answer this for me: What on this earth can possibly make the vast majority of a solid skyscraper offer no more resistance than air? You see, even the NIST apologists admit that they "collapsed" (disintegrated) at freefall rate, so surely you won't have a problem answering this right? Come on Will. Solid building. Uppermost portion falling THROUGH the solid remainder of the building AS QUICKLY, MEANING RECEIVING NO MORE RESISTANCE, THAN FALLING THROUGH AIR. Either 1.Explain this away; 2.admit we are right; or 3.shut the fuck up. And your choice is...?

Lev and Agent 99

I've enjoyed your 34 posts about how amazed and sickened you both are that everyone is dumber than you and you have the real facts and physics blah blah blah. Your unabashed self-righteousness is heartwarming in days like these.

You guys are the real heroes. You are leading the anonymous poster charge to change the hearts and minds of America. You are putting your untraceable web persona on the line on someone else's blog to defend the facts that people you know squat about have posted on their websites. Thanks for taking that risk. I hope that your reputations as professional Physicists are not damaged by your selfless determination to post and stand behind YOUR FACTS.

I also want to commend you on the patient, workmanlike fashion in which you craft convincing responses to those who have questions regarding your beliefs. It is on this battlefront that your efforts will be immortalized.

So yeah. That's pretty much why I now completely accept what you believe and why when I meet other 9/11 Truther's I recognize them for the sharp cookies they obviously are...after all, they believe exactly what I do!

cont... and Will you don't have to feel sorry for Brad , he is more than capable of looking after himself

Crackermack: My post for Will can be for you as well. Please explain away how in a "gravity-driven collapse" the uppermost part of a building can pass through the solid vast majority of the building anywhere near as quickly as passing through air. Are you able to walk through your door with it shut just like when it's open? Are you able to be struck by a car and pass through it like it isn't there? Leave fantasy land behind Crackermack. The real world is calling.

Crackermack

Well, you might read self-righteousness into it, since it's so much easier than doing the work to learn, but that's really the crux of the matter, the source of the frustration: too many people are too frightened to look at it when the government doesn't want them to, and too many who will look at it are too lazy to do anything beside fall for pat disinformation and call names. For those who are actually stupid, their ignorance can be excused. But name-calling and mudslinging and insisting that us anonymous blog commenters give you physics lessons, or reiterate for you what is so easy for you to access on your own, is really unreasonable.

While you're at it, please explain why Bush would have complete warplans for the invasion of Afghanistan on his desk two days BEFORE 9/11.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4587368/ http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4585010/ When even the USA Today admits that without 9/11 an invasion of Afghanistan would have been politically impossible.
http://www.usatoday.com/...03-23-war-analysis_x.htm

So am I to believe you are thinking Bush is clairvoyant? Or what?

Hey Guys,

See this is exactly my point. Like the other night I was watching Bill Maher and these idiots kept yelling stuff, which I really couldn't make out, and then they kinda interupted the show that I was watching and I thought to myself:

"Man, what a bunch of assholes. Maybe if they could conduct a civilized debate, more people would be willing to hear them out."

It's your pie. Fill it with piss and vinegar if you want, but apples will sell more pie.

Mahalo, good eve, and maybe if you post another story here about 9/11 someday, I'll swing back through to hear the idiots yell again.

Crackermack: People get irritated when they explain things in ever-simpler ways and yet it fails to sink in, fails to penetrate the dense brainwashing/ignorance/intellectual cowardice of the listener. How simple do we have to make it? Solid things don't pass through other solid things as easily as passing through air. You can't explain this. You can't get around it. So you pretend like it is the fault of people like us for our manner we sometimes deliver it. Here's a clue: When you explain something many times to someone and they still pretend to not understand, it's extremely frustrating, and quite like trying to argue with a child; they are going to remain oblivious to the facts, to reality, to common sense no matter WHAT way you explain it. YOU try explaining the obvious to immature children who refuse to acknowledge that the sky is blue. See how long you remain civil. If I was the one sitting here having people explain the most obvious, common sense, elementary things to me (like solid things offer extremely more resistance to a falling mass than does air) and I still either couldn't figure it out or WOULDN'T LET myself figure it out, I certainly wouldn't try to sound condescending and act like it was THEIR fault for getting irritated at me for being so obtuse/chickenshit. Have you got both oars in the water? Are you simply a paid hack who is here to try to defend the indefensible? Or what?

Deconstructing the so-called "War on Terror"

Anyone who took an afternoon to look into it on the internet, with a search engine and a wall map could figure out in very short order that the so-called “war on terror” is nothing more than a thinly-disguised war for as much control as possible over as much of the world’s (remaining) oil and natural gas resources. That’s it. It’s an energy dominance war. We have to face it that 1.oil is finite, and 2.most of it appears to have already been discovered and used, and as we get to having less and less of it the price of it is going to go up more and more. So it only stands to reason that the country that sees itself as being the most powerful in the world would try to secure control over as much of it that remains as they can, along with its few and dwindling number of lapdog quisling governments like Britain and Australia and Poland. Most Americans would not have gone along with an invasion of Afghanistan to be able to build a natural gas pipeline from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan to Pakistan and a LNG port; but most of them eagerly backed the invasion of Afghanistan after the 9/11 false flag operation.

While the negotiations with the Taliban were still ongoing, the Cheney regime tried to bribe the Taliban with $43 million in aid, in addition to other aid already earmarked for Afghanistan: "The sum brings U.S. assistance to $124.2 million for this year, making the United States the largest Afghan donor for the second year in a row." http://archives.cnn.com/...5/17/us.afghanistan.aid/

Christine Rocca was sent in August 2001 to try to get the Taliban to soften its demands, to no avail: "During her stay in Pakistan, Rocca is also expected to meet Taliban officials." http://iys.cidi.org/huma...irin/casia/01b/ixl4.html

A little earlier that summer the U.S. had threatened the Taliban with war if they refuse to agree to the U.S.'s terms: ''At one moment during the negotiations, the U.S. representatives told the Taliban, 'either you accept our offer of a carpet of gold, or we bury you under a carpet of bombs','' Brisard said in an interview in Paris." http://archive.democrats.com/view.cfm?id=5166
http://transcripts.cnn.c...IPTS/0201/08/ltm.05.html

The Taliban of course did not back down, so the U.S. resorted to its 9/11 false flag operation to be blamed on "Al Qaeda" to use as a pretext to invade Afghanistan which was widely believed to be harboring "Al Qaeda". The Taliban is overthrown and a pro-U.S. puppet government is installed with Hamid Karzai at the helm. Karzai, though he denies it, is alleged to be a former consultant for Unocal: "Cool and worldly, Karzai is a former employee of US oil company Unocal – one of two main oil companies that was bidding for the lucrative contract to build an oil pipeline from Uzbekistan through Afghanistan to seaports in Pakistan" http://www.csmonitor.com...2/0610/p01s03e-wosc.html

Whether or not Karzai used to be on Unocal's payroll or that of one of its subsidiaries, it is indisputable that the real power broker in Afghanistan, the (then-) U.S. ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad, used to be a Unocal consultant: "The ambassador once worked as an adviser to oil giant Unocal and his detractors linked his oil industry ties to his appointment to Iraq. They also noted that at the same time that he was working for Unocal, the company was touting for business in Taleban-run Afghanistan." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/.../middle_east/4736394.stm

The parliament itself, or loya jirga as it is called, is really just a rubber stamp for the U.S.'s policies in Afghanistan, one of the cabinet ministers even being quoted as saying it was a rubber stamp: "Seema Samar, the women's affairs minister, complained that the loya jirga was "not a democracy; it is a rubber stamp - everything has already been decided by the powerful ones". http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/...i/south_asia/2039665.stm

So Karzai and the other puppets got to work hammering out a deal with the interests of their U.S. puppetmasters in mind, and in May 2002 it was announced that "Afghanistan" was planning a gas pipeline: "Afghanistan hopes to strike a deal later this month to build a $2bn pipeline through the country to take gas from energy-rich Turkmenistan to Pakistan and India. Afghan interim ruler Hamid Karzai is to hold talks with his Pakistani and Turkmenistan counterparts later this month on Afghanistan's biggest foreign investment project, said Mohammad Alim Razim, minister for Mines and Industries told Reuters. "The work on the project will start after an agreement is expected to be struck at the coming summit," Mr Razim said. The construction of the 850-kilometre pipeline had been previously discussed between Afghanistan's former Taliban regime, US oil company Unocal and Bridas of Argentina." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/1984459.stm

Later that month at the summit, sure enough, the pipeline plan was given the green light: "The leaders of Afghanistan, Pakistan and Turkmenistan have agreed to construct a $2bn pipeline to bring gas from Central Asia to the sub-continent. The project was abandoned in 1998 when a consortium led by US energy company Unocal withdrew from the project over fears of being seen to support Afghanistan's then Taliban government... The Pakistani leader said once the project is completed, Central Asia's hydrocarbon resources would be available to the international market, including East Asian and other far eastern countries. Pakistan has plans to build a liquid-gas plant at the Gwadar port for export purposes... The pipeline could eventually supply gas to India." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2017044.stm

A few months later, in December 2002, the pipeline deal was signed, just a little over a year after 9/11, the event that made it possible: "An agreement has been signed in the Turkmen capital, Ashgabat, paving the way for construction of a gas pipeline from the Central Asian republic through Afghanistan to Pakistan. The building of the trans-Afghanistan pipeline has been under discussion for some years but plans have been held up by Afghanistan's unstable political situation... With improved regional security after the fall of the Taleban about a year ago, Afghanistan, Turkmenistan and Pakistan have decided to push ahead with plans for the ambitious 1,500-kilometre-long gas pipeline... Turkmenistan has some of the world's greatest reserves of natural gas, but still relies on tightly controlled Russian pipelines to export it. Ashgabat has long been desperate to find an alternative export route." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/...i/south_asia/2608713.stm

In 2006 it was decided to accelerate work on the pipeline project: "Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India, the four partners of a proposed $ 3.3 bn pipeline, have vowed to accelerate work on the four-nation project to bring natural gas from Turkmenistan to India. The declaration was adopted in New Delhi at a two-day regional economic cooperation forum on Afghanistan, which was attended by Afghan President Hamid Karzai. The partners of the so-called TAPI pipeline also committed to help Afghanistan become an energy bridge in the region." http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/ntc65139.htm

Even in late September 2001 some were talking about the potential economic significance of occupying Afghanistan (and obviously others had been thinking about it for much longer). In an article in the San Francisco Chronicle called "Energy future rides on U.S. war" it says: "the hidden stakes in the war against terrorism can be summed up in a single word: oil. The map of terrorist sanctuaries and targets in the Middle East and Central Asia is also, to an extraordinary degree, a map of the world's principal energy sources in the 21st century. The defense of these energy resources --- rather than a simple confrontation between Islam and the West --- will be the primary flash point of global conflict for decades to come, say observers in the region... The terrain of the globe's energy future ranges along a swath of mountain and desert with resource-poor Afghanistan and Pakistan at its volatile eastern end." http://www.sfgate.com/cg...e/2001/09/26/MN70983.DTL Though this article mentions oil and Central Asia, it fails to mention natural gas, but anyway you get the idea.

Iraq, well that goes without saying that it's all about oil. Anyone at this point who doesn't realize that the Iraq war is being waged for American control over Iraq's enormous oil reserves, well I feel sorry for you. Just in case, here is some evidence that Cheney's Energy Task Force was looking with much avarice at Iraq's humongous energy deposits as early as spring 2001:
http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106a.html
http://www.judicialwatch...org/iraqi-oil-maps.shtml
http://www.judicialwatch.org/IraqOilMap.pdf http://www.judicialwatch..._iraqi-oilfield-pr.shtml http://www.projectcensor...publications/2005/8.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4830129/
http://www.washingtonpos...701987.html?hpid=topnews
http://www.washingtonpos.../AR2005111501842_pf.html
http://www.evworld.com/a...;first=5769&end=5768

But wait. There's more. The "war on terror" has more theaters than simply the two main ones that are always on the "news", Iraq and Afghanistan. Let's not forget about the Philippines, where the U.S. is helping the Filipino government battle "Abu Sayyaf".
http://en.wikipedia.org/...an#Honda_Bay_kidnappings
http://www.commondreams....iles/views03/1115-09.htm
http://www.cdnn.info/ind...try/i010528/i010528.html
http://www.manilatimes.n...y/prov/20070921pro4.html

And where is Palawan? In the ideal place to help the Philippines secure its claims to the Spratly Islands.
http://www.skyscrapercit....php?t=382986&page=6
Why are the Spratlys important (and claimed by several countries)? Because they're believed to be enormously oil-rich.
http://energyconcepts.tr...epts/energy_overview.htm

And there's oil under the Sulu Sea:
http://business.inquirer...cle.php?article_id=76588
And wouldn't you guess it, the Sulu Sea has a couple of islands that are considered the home of "Abu Sayyaf", Jolo and Basilan.
http://www.bulatlat.com/...yaf-basilan-deadly-redux
http://www.manilatimes.n...tories/20070829top3.html
http://www.foreignaffair...yond-the-abu-sayyaf.html

And "Abu Sayyaf" isn't quite what it appears to be. It has ties to the C.I.A. and the Philippine military, being their creation.
http://malaysia-today.ne...orridors.php?itemid=2992
The Philippine Army routinely colludes with "Abu Sayyaf" and lets them escape (like the U.S. let their guy Osama bin Laden "escape" in 2001):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/...asia-pacific/1792350.stm
http://sunday.ninemsn.co...ries/transcript_1334.asp
http://www.philssa.org.ph/features/fsona2001.htm
http://www.pcij.org/imag...PublicEye/pentagon2.html
http://www.pcij.org/HotSeat/trillanes.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/...asia-pacific/3066799.stm
And the Philippine Army even supplies them:
http://www.philsol.nl/ne...s/03/Magdalo01-jul03.htm
http://www.guardian.co.u...y/0,3604,1019169,00.html
And the operations officer for "Abu Sayyaf" was Edwin Angeles, an informant for Philippine intelligence:
http://query.nytimes.com...38F933A0575BC0A960958260
And all "Abu Sayyaf" accomplishes is to discredit the legitimate Muslim separatist resistance in the southern Philippines:
http://209.85.165.104/se...clnk&cd=31&gl=us
So "Abu Sayyaf" is a classic case of a government manufacturing an enemy for its own purposes, in this case initially to discredit the genuine separatists and later so that the quisling Arroyo can give the U.S. an excuse to reintroduce military forces in the Philippines and possibly help them enforce their claim to the oil-rich Spratlys.

Then we have another theater in the "war on terror", Somalia, which if you'll recall last December the U.S. goaded Ethiopia into invading to overthrow the "Islamic Courts" government and install the U.S.-backed puppet government. The U.S. provided some air support and intel. support to the Ethiopians but for the most part got them to do their dirty work for them.
http://www.usatoday.com/...007-01-07-ethiopia_x.htm
Why Somalia? Because it is sitting on an undetermined but considered sizeable amount of oil reserves.
http://www.raceandhistor...nfig.pl/noframes/read/15
http://www.milligazette..../15032002/1503200246.htm

But don't forget about former-Soviet Georgia and "Operation: Enduring Freedom--Pankisi Gorge" in which the U.S. has sent a few hundred Special Forces troops to Georgia to train its military:
http://www.bu.edu/iscip/vol12/areshidze.html
http://www.globalsecurit...rg/military/ops/gtep.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/..._Freedom_-_Pankisi_Gorge
Why Georgia? Because the extremely important oil pipeline coming from Azerbaijan passes through there, perilously close to the breakaway South Ossetia region of Georgia, and on to Turkey (The Baku-Tblisi-Ceyhan pipeline).
http://www.ifc.org/btc
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2263611.stm
This important pipeline gets Azeri oil to western markets but bypasses Russia and Russian satellite Armenia, a similar goal to the Turkmen-Afghan-Pakistan natural gas pipeline which is intended to get Turkmen gas to western markets while bypassing Russia.

Afghanistan. Iraq. Philippines. Somalia. Georgia. Every theater in the "war on terror" is intimately related to oil and/or natural gas exploration, extraction and transport to market. This is information that can readily be found in open-source, mainstream material. The only difference is, I put it all together in one place where you can see the pattern. The "war on terror" is a war for energy dominance. Period.

Mugzi #153

More than a prototype, several pilots (some of them who had flown the planes before they crashed on 9/11) got the NTSB flight data from the alleged pentagon flight and put it into flight simulators.

These are flight simulators that are as real as it gets. They actually train pilots on them.

Anyway, the data once it was put into the simulators, which then redid the whole flight, did not support the official conspiracy theory, but it did support the unofficial conspiracy theory.

Here is a statement from them:

Pilots for 9/11 Truth is an organization of aviation professionals and pilots throughout the globe who have gathered together for one purpose. We are committed to seeking the truth surrounding the events of the 11th of September 2001. Our main focus concentrates on the four flights, maneuvers performed and the reported pilots. We do not offer theory or point blame at this point in time.

(Link To Professional Pilot Site). And here is another one.

As a software developer I did work on early cell-phone software, and did not buy the cell-phone stories such as "lets roll". That is where much of my focus has been. There is new evidence that the planes did not have on board phones, and I am certain that cell-phones could not work in rural Pennsylvania at 30,000 feet and several hundred miles per hour:

... the government is no longer, even implicitly, supporting the view that high-altitude cell phone calls from airliners are possible. The government has thereby implicitly overcome, by conceding the point, one of the 9/11 movement’s main arguments against the government’s conspiracy theory.

(Link).

That question will never be answered Lev, neither will any of the ones I have asked.
They know they cant because there is only one answer and it is Controlled Demolition.

Quite pathetic really, these 9/11 Creationist are suffering from severe cognitive dissonance.

I feel about the same way 99, I have just realized that about 30-35% of the population are totally unreachable and there is nothing that can be done about it.

You're right Nunyabiz, it is quite pathetic; they can't answer so they do the internet equivalent to covering their ears and going "na na na na I can't hear you". Makes one wonder: Are they genuinely retarded/cowardly? Or just paid to act like it? Either way they're stooges whether they realize it or not.

I hope Brad and crew get my latest comments (#183, 184 and 185) read and posted soon; they are being held for moderation presumably because they have a lot of html links and must have tripped the "spam filter". They're long comments but they're worth the read. Hope you find them interesting.

Lots of speculation. No evidence. No leads. No case. When you are dealing with organized crime, any competent prosecutor will tell you to focus on the crimes where evidence is real: treason, torture, spying, perjury. I think that heroes like Waxman, Leahy and Conyers are working in the right direction.

The neocons would love to have you spend most of your time on the conspiracy track. They know that the evidence is long gone.

Brad, I know you read these. Do you aqpprove of your bloggers tilting at windmills while important issues like election fraud get little attention (other than BradBlog)?

TWL

Will you quit saying, "No evidence"? Pretty please? The laws of physics themselves are very damning evidence indeed. Even if you don't believe me, or can't understand, could you just try a little to stop playing "Thick-Witted"?

I mean, I'm not griping about you changing your screen name because I actually asked you to, maybe even more than once, and you've never stopped being a complete jerk about this issue in all this time. I can appreciate your persistance, but mightn't you at least stay away from 9/11 threads if you think they're windmills, stick to contributing where you believe it's most useful?

I'm back

The laws of physics, the laws of physics, the laws of physics...and it goes on and on and on.

Let's play a game. Let's pretend for a moment that CD is what happened.

Certainly, those who don't just believe CD happened, but keep going around yelling "game, set and match" about CD, can answer a few questions easily? Right? After all, according to them, CD is not a belief, but proven by "the laws of physics" - right?

So let's play...and remember, this game takes it for granted that CD is proven by "the laws of physics."

1. Bush is certainly evil, and by giving the order to CD the towers, he is a murderer, responsible for the death of thousands of people.

My question - Why didn't evil George Bush order the CD 15 minutes earlier, thus killing even more people?

2. Quite possibly, your answer to the first question is something like this - yes, Bush is evil and he ordered the CD, but he didn't want to kill everyone, just enough to make it a terrible tragedy. If this is your answer, I have another question:

My question - Why didn't evil George Bush order the CD 15 minutes later?

3. Clearly, CD alone would not have been a spectacular-enough event for the evil George Bush to rally the nation against Osama and the evil Taliban. Therefore, the evil George Bush must have either partnered with Osama, allowing Osama to launch planes into the towers...or else, the evil George Bush knew that Osama was going to launch planes into the towers, so he ordered people to wire the towers for CD.

My question - Did the evil George Bush partner with Osama?

4. If your answer was no...

My question - Did the evil George Bush know that Osama was launching planes into the towers, and so ordered the towers to be wired for CD?

5. If your answer to #3 was yes..., that means that the evil George Bush partnered with Osama, and then turned around and backstabbed Osama, by launching attacks in Afghanistan, driving the Taliban from power and driving Osama to Tora Bora. One would think that Osama must have been really pissed off!

My question - Has Osama ever commented in one of his videos that the evil George Bush was his partner, and then backstabbed him?

6. Regardless, the evil George Bush ordered the CD of the towers.

My question - how long does it take to wire a building the size of the North Tower (or South Tower) so that CD will bring the building down like pancakes, instead of falling over to the side?

7. The evil George Bush not only ordered the towers be wired for CD, but he also ordered #7 to be wired.

My question - Instead of wiring the twin towers so perfectly so that they collapsed from CD like pancakes, why didn't the evil George Bush order the people who wired the buildings to not worry so much about a perfect collapse, so that the towers might collapse differently, taking out #7 on the way down for example?

8. No doubt, the CD of the towers was an evil act - it would have taken time to plan properly, it would have taken a lot of explosives to bring them down like pancakes, and it would have taken evil-but-loyal professionals to plant the explosives.

My final questions:

Has anyone come forward and confessed?
Have any CD companies reported people missing that day?
Were any bombs recovered?
Did any surveillance video have gaps or erasures?

I have no doubt, that since "the laws of physics" prove your opinion, that you will have answers for all of my questions.

John

Controlled Demolition ≠ * Did It

It does mean the accused cannot be guilty... at least not as charged.

It means there are very powerful and well-connected people committing treason, and reaping ongoing benefit from whipping the nation into a paranoid frenzy.

It's quite more likely * was told something big was going to happen and he better not get in the way. So * would be guilty of misprision of treason, but not of causing the events of 9/11. So long as people will not let this get a full and impartial investigation, mass-murdering traitors are enjoying life, millions of people across the globe are suffering as a direct result of it, and America is sliding into full-blown fascism with no brakes being applied.

John Dean,

Nice try but David Ray Griffith's book "The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration and 9/11" has all your answers. He lays it out in just the forum you've chosen and it's really quite a compelling case. Although it doesn't finger G.W.B. as the puppet master, it does make a strong case for foreknowledge which makes him and his band of neocon pal's just as culpable.

If you don't want to buy it, put your name on the list at your local library for a copy. There's usually a waiting list for it.

As 99 has said, We just an impartial hearing on the evidence with witness testimony and the force of law see if things pan out for our side.

We don't really want anything different than you would want in going after election tampering.

I don't think Maxwell Smart would be too happy right now, with all this dodging and rope-a-doping.

Answer my questions!

Substitute "the evil people" for "the evil George Bush" and answer them.

As for Griffith, his background is religion and theology, not physics.

John Dean

Do the work. Too many people have already broken their backs to make it easy enough for you. Educate yourself... maybe even simply by rereading this thread, and certainly by following the links. If not, maybe go jump in the lake? Lazily snarking away is just rude.

John Dean,

I know everybody else is shouting, and I wish you would pretend that I'm only whispering, in an intimate yet non-threatening way, directly into your right ear:

"Hey. Where'd you go? Way back in Comment #148, I politely requested something from you. In Comment #150, I made it as easy as possible for you to do it. Then you disappeared on me, John... But now you're back, pretending that I don't exist... What about me, baby?"

You don't exist!

You're nothing but a letter J, nothing more to me.

And since you folks are the ones who keep parroting how the laws of science prove CD, the ball is in your court, not mine, to support your extraordinary claim with some powerful, extraordinary evidence.

YOUR COURT. Richard Gage is not here. Griffith is not here.

I asked simple questions, and you cannot answer them.

Poor JD, he doesn't really understand the difference between what can be proven positively by Science and what must be mostly speculation at best (his questions)

Our questions can be proven by Science, the evidence is there and it is irrefutable, the Laws of Physics do not change, it is basically Math....no matter what or whom is involved 2+2 will always and forever equal 4.

One thing you need to try and understand is that this is NOT just an "evil bush" operation here, there is evidence that Clinton was involved and for the most part by being totally complicit in the cover up the entire god damn Congress BOTH Rethug & Dem.
The Democrats are doing NOTHING to this treasonous war criminal, "Impeachment is off the Table" all right because they all know they would be implicated in this treason if it ever really went to court.
and Whom are the so called " Presidential front runners" as portrayed by what we know is a fully complicit Media? Clinton and Ghouliani? Imagine that.

#1 Have no idea, however I don't think by any stretch of the imagination that "evil George" is the mastermind. He was quite possibly a willing patsy.
There is some speculation that he was to be assassinated in Florida that morning. I would "speculate" that Cheney is closer to the lead freak.

#2. The reason whomever started the CD when they did is quite likely (again speculation)because Firemen had reached the floors on fire and one had already assessed it as needing just 2 lines to put it out.

#3. The USA "partnered with Osama" back in the 80s and fully funded & armed him to fight the Russians.
The name "AlQeada" (means The Base) comes from the CIA "database" of drug warlords of which AlQeada was and is protecting so the Opium can flow freely.
We were on record, documented as still funding AlQeada until at least 1995. Shortly after that Bin Laden went rogue and started doing his own BS.
Bin Laden was trained here in the states, his code name was "Tim Osman" most if not all of the so called hijackers were trained here also.
The 2.5 terabytes of data on the "Able Danger" database were all destroyed just 7 months before 9/11.
Able Danger was tracking and knew all about most of the so called "hijackers" for 2 years before 9/11.
The people in Able Danger were told to "not to look into Atta any further or be fired".
Able Danger also knew about the USS Cole Attack before it happened and warned officials which was ignored.
Now why would they EVER erase that much data for any honest reason?

#4. It is highly unlikely that Bin Laden had anything to do with 9/11, he came out in late Sept 01' vehemently denying that he had anything to do with it. This whole operation was most likely (again pure speculation) a construct of the Neofascist PNAC cabal.
The so called hijackers it is quite likely thought they were part one of the many War Games going on that day, got on the planes and most likely after that everyone on board gassed and the planes taken over from the ground remotely. pure speculation, but is a logical possibility given what we do know.

#5. Pretty much yes, he stated in Sept 01' that he had nothing to do with 9/11 and to "Look within" to find out who did.

#6. Doesn't really matter, it could have been "Wired" years before, after the wiring was in place which could have been done entirely in maintenance areas that no one but maintenance personnel ever go and could have been done slowly. The actual explosives could then have been easily placed during the 36 hours that everything was shut down right before 9/11.

Also these buildings did not "pancake" the 2 towers were actually more of an UNcontrolled Demolition.
They used Thermate to take out the core column supports and high explosives to pulverize the trusses, cement floors and take out all the air in the building so what little is left that did not turn to DUST was imploded/sucked In & Down, however in order to do that because they could not go in like a normal CD and take out supports, hollow out walls, take out windows blah blah they must have had to use more than usually required which is why we see massive steel beams weighing several tons BLOWN all the way across West 57th St. 500-600' away.
They did blow the massive core columns that were setting on the bedrock at the base of the building first, just a few seconds before the planes hit.
William Rodriguez and several others confirm this because they were standing in the basement when it happened. Most of this IS NOT speculation as we have good evidence that proves it.

#7. No idea and it really doesn't matter what their reasons were for doing it the way they did it.
FACT is that they DID IT.

#8. as far as we know some may have tried and been murdered, John O'Neill spoke out about what he knew and got so mad about being ignored that he quit the FBI, he was murdered on 9/11.
Daniel Pearl apparently learned about the connection between General Mahmood Ahmed and the White House.
Ahmed sent $100,000 to Atta through Saeed Sheikh.
Daniel Pearl was kidnapped by Saeed Sheikh.
He was murdered.
Senator Paul Wellstone was speaking out against these criminals, he was murdered.
FBI agents were first to reach the crash site of his plane, they came from Minneapolis which means in order to get to that plane in under an hour they would have had to have left at about the same time that Wellstones plane took off.
Sibel Edmonds has tried to speak out. Fired and ignored
Collen Rowley has spoken out, fired and ignored.
Robert Wright spoke out, was fired then rehired but still still totally ignored, he has 2 lawsuits against the FBI today.

In fact there were 13 Whistle Blowers lined up ready to testify in front of the so called "9/11 Omission" they were turned away, ignored and censored.

Have no idea about any CD companies with employees missing and don't see what that has to do with anything.
and BTW guess who "Clean up" the debris on 9/11.
and company by the name of "Controlled Demolition Inc" LOL, they also just happened to be the ones to "clean Up" the Murrah Building in OK, City.
No unexploded charges were claimed to have been found at the WTC site, however several were found by police and firemen at the Murrah Building proving there is no way MCVeigh acted alone.

There were no surviving surveillance tapes.

There i have answered your questions to the best of my ability considering all your questions require mostly speculation.

Now answer ours which BTW require no speculation at all, just a general understanding of Conservation of Momentum, common sense and the ability to read the testimony of Firemen, Police, and eye witnesses which all say the same thing.

John Dean,

I'm not a letter! I'm a human being!!

Sincerely,

Number Six

P.S. Why are you spending your valuable time arguing with letters that don't exist, anyway? You should get out on the street and impress your views upon real people, and forget about us ghosts!

Interesting developments on the Bill Maher front:

CNN's Glenn Beck ensures the one-sidedness of things;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnKppff5yQ8

A report on how the protester was treated by security and the police;

http://www.911blogger.com/node/12127

Well one troll revealed. Jeremy, is that you?

Nunyabiz at #199 slobbers disinformation:

"there is evidence that Clinton was involved and for the most part by being totally complicit in the cover up the entire god damn Congress BOTH Rethug & Dem."

Pure disinformation.

Nunya

JD has something of a history of pretending he's busting trolls. Pay it no mind.

John Dean #202

You are obviously just a complete Asshole not worth the pixels wasted to respond to you any further.

Take note what this jackass did he completely ignores ALL the questions we ask and then completely denies all the answers we give on his speculative questions.

In other words he is an idiot troll without a clue.

/ignore

I'm not anymore, like I said JD here is a classic 9/11 Creationist.
He is clueless and wants to stay that way

And what about the live t.v. coverage of the controlled demolitions? Let's see what the transcripts have to say:
CNN's live coverage of 9/11 has some interesting quotes, this excerpt from a few minutes after the South Tower was crashed into: "UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I say the hole takes about --- we saw six, seven floors were taken out, and there's more explosions right now. Hold on, people are running! Hold on!" UNIDENTIFIED WABC REPORTER: "Hold on just a moment. We've got an explosion inside." UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "The building is exploding right now. You've got people running up the street. Hold on, I'll tell you what's going on." UNIDENTIFIED WABC REPORTER: "OK, just put Winston on pause there for just a moment." UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "The whole building just exploded some more, the whole top part. The building's still intact people are running up the street. Am I still connected?" UNIDENTIFIED WABC REPORTER: "Winston, this would support probably what Libby and you both said, that perhaps the fuselage was in the building that would cause a second explosion, such as that. That's what just happened then." UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "People are running out." UNIDENTIFIED WABC REPORTER: "We are getting word that perhaps..." UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "OK, hold the people here --- everybody here is panicking." [Then, of course, CNN cuts them off and goes to talk to someone else.] http://transcripts.cnn.c...RIPTS/0109/11/bn.01.html Dan Rather, after the demolition of WTC # 7 building which we will address in a little while, after the Twin Towers, says that: "For the third time today-- Its reminiscent of those pictures weve all seen too much on television before when a building was deliberately destroyed by well placed dynamite." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvx904dAw0o Peter Jennings compares the Twin Towers' disintegration to controlled demolitions in an interesting conversation with a reporter on the scene Dan Dahler: "Dahler: "Yes, Peter, it's Dan Dahler here. I'm down here four blocks north of the World Trade Center. The second building that was hit by the plane has just completely collapsed. The entire building has just collapsed, as if a demolition team set off, when you see the old demolitions of these old buildings, it folded down on itself, and it is not there any more."... Jennings: "The southern .. tower ... 10 o'clock eastern time this morning, just collapsing on itself. This is a place where thousands of people work. We have no idea what caused this. Um .. If you wish to bring ah .. anybody who ever watched a building being demolished on purpose knows .. that if you're going to do this you have to get at the .. at the under infrastructure of a building and bring it down." http://www.archive.org/d...ils/abc200109110954-1036 NBC's live coverage of the 9/11 events in Manhattan was incriminating as well. Here are some excerpts: "[Ashleigh Banfield an MSNBC correspondant]: "We just heard one more explosion," continues Banfield, "That’s about the fifth one we’ve heard. Police are telling us they’re either car bombs or they’re simply cars that have overheated so much they are exploding."... [as a cop is clearing the area of press, saying only emergency workers are allowed nearby, Banfield questions him about the explosions]: "Do you know anything about those extra explosions we have heard?" [cop]: "No, I do not." [Banfield]: "Were they car bombs?" [cop]: "I have no idea, ma’am." [Banfield]: "What about the sewers? Are they looking for bombs in the sewers?" [cop ignores her and walks away, Tom Brokaw and Katie Couric make no comment about Banfield's report. About a half hour later is another on-the-ground report, this time by Pat Dawson, reporting on the conversation he had moments before with Albert Perry, chief of fire safety for NYFD]: "Perry told me that shortly after nine o’clock he had ten alarms, roughly 200 men, in the building trying to effect a rescue of the civilians who were in there. And, basically, he received word of some kind of secondary device, that is, another bomb going off. He tried to get his men out quickly as he could, but he said there was an explosion that took place. And an hour after the first hit, the first crash [that] took place, there was another explosion in one of the towers here. According to his theory, he thinks there were actually devices that were planted in the building. One may have been in the plane. A second device, he speculates, was probably planted in the building. So that’s what we’ve been told by Albert Perry, who is chief of Safety for the New York City Fire Department, just moments ago. Now we are continuing to hear explosions here downtown. The whole area is cordoned off and that rescue workers are waiting to get in. But the bottom line is that he, Albert Perry, said that he probably lost a great many men in those secondary explosions, and he said that there were literally hundreds, if not thousands, of people in those towers when the explosions took place." [Brokaw says nothing about Dawson's report either. Christian Martin, a producer for NBC's Dateline program who was near the "collapses" when they occurred, was interviewed and he mentions the]: "force of the blast coming down the canyon [between the buildings]". [At 12:42, NBC's Ann Thompson, who also escaped, says she was at Broadway and Fullerton when]: "we heard an explosion" [from the South Tower, and says that about 10:30 she came back into the street and says]: "We walked down Broadway toward Canal and we heard the second explosion" [and that a fireman told her to get out of the building] "because, if there was a third explosion, the building they were in would become dangerous." [Thompson is also interrupted by a cop telling her to leave. At 1:41 PM Tom Brokaw says the devastation is]: "as effective as if a bomb were dropped there. Airliners hitting buildings, which came down, we presume because of the initial explosion. There may have been secondary explosions detonated in the building placed there by these terrorists." [Brokaw would however never again mention these "secondary explosions", presumably having been quietly told to kill the talk of "bombs in buildings" as it contradicts the official myth, then starting to take hold]. http://www.teslapress.co...html%20web%20version.htm

and when I say Clinton is involved I don't mean that he helped plan it or even execute it (9/11). Even though that wouldn't surprise me if he did.

But odds are he didn't because the same little cabal of nut bags tried to get Clinton to attack Iraq back in 1998, the signed letter is documented on file admitting such.
http://www.newamericance...rg/iraqclintonletter.htm

But Clinton did know about Able Danger, and knew about Atta and no doubt must know something about Bin Laden and whatever sordid relationship he has with the US government or whatever cabal that is in control.

The Democrats all know exactly what is going on unless they are freaking brain dead, they KNOW about the Election fraud, the KNOW something about the false flag attack of 9/11, they KNOW this little treasonous bastard has broken every known International, National, Global Law & Treaty, they KNOW all these fascist LIED through their teeth to take the country into an unjust and illegal occupation.
They KNOW that the Mainstream Media is lying and covering everything up also.

So yeah that makes them guilty as hell in my book.

Regarding the fall-back response that official myth apologists always use, that of "Well how did they manage to rig up the Towers and # 7 building without anyone knowing?" after which they smugly fold their arms as if this renders physics and common sense null and void, here are some things that they haven't considered:

In an interesting article by UTNE Reader: "Such an investigation could reveal some embarrassing Bush family connections with a company “that intersected the weapons and targets on a day of national tragedy.” As Margie Burns reports in The American Reporter, an electronic daily newspaper, Marvin P. Bush, the president’s younger brother, was a principal in a company called Securacom that provided security for the World Trade Center, United Airlines, and Dulles International Airport. The company, Burns noted, was backed by KuwAm, a Kuwaiti-American investment firm on whose board Marvin Burns [sic; should read "Bush"] also served."..."According to Wayne Black, head of a Florida-based security firm, it is somewhat unusual for a single firm to handle security for both an airline and a airport. It’s also unusual for a firm linked so closely with a foreign-owned company to handle security on such a “sensitive” international airport as Dulles. “When you have a security contract, you know the inner workings of everything,” he said. “Somebody knew somebody,” he added, or the contract would have been scrutinized more carefully." http://www.utne.com/web_...02/articles/10292-1.html
Bear in mind that aside from the WTC matter, two of the alleged "hijacked airliners" took off from Dulles airport on 9/11. No wonder then that Marvin Bush, who though according to Margie Burns supposedly left Securacom sometime in 2000, wouldn't respond to repeated requests for an interview by The American Reporter. Securacom however didn't provide all of the security at the WTC, especially playing a smaller role since 1998, however another article by Ms. Burns states that: "According to its present CEO, Barry McDaniel, the company had an ongoing contract to handle security at the World Trade Center "up to the day the buildings fell down." It mentions how revenues from their WTC security contract declined and that at the time of 9/11 they had a just a "completion contract" ongoing there that wasn't finished, the details of which McDaniel declined to elaborate on: "Barry McDaniel, CEO of the company since January 2002, declines on security grounds to give specific details about work the company did at the World Trade Center. According to McDaniel, the contract was ongoing (a "completion contract"), and "not quite completed when the Center went down." http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0301/S00032.htm http://www.populist.com/03.02.burns.html
It appears though that a company called Kroll Inc. took the lead in doing the heavy lifting so to speak regarding WTC security from 1998 to 9/11. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kroll_Inc.
Kroll is an interesting company. An article in the Sydney Morning Herald, called "Welcome to the murky world of Kroll Inc.-- the private C.I.A." it is stated that: "They helped track down billions of dollars of treasure looted from Kuwait by Saddam Hussein. They finally proved that "God's Banker", Roberto Calvi, found hanging under London's Blackfriars Bridge with bricks in his pockets, was murdered. They were hired by Prince Charles to find the "Princess Di tapes"... "Not for nothing did a former executive of the company describe Kroll as "like a private CIA"."... "In the process, inevitably for a company employing large numbers of former CIA, FBI and Special Forces people, the company has occasionally been accused of misconduct, the bugging scandal in Brazil is just the latest in which Kroll Inc has been embroiled."... "It has also worked for the US government."..."Although its bread and butter work was legal corporate intelligence, such as profiling takeover targets, in countries such as Brazil, and now Iraq, where kidnapping is rampant, Kroll also specialised in "close body work" - bodyguards, protection and ransom." http://www.smh.com.au/ne...06/24/1119321904732.html

So it sounds like Kroll is located in that gray area that's getting foggier all the time, where the boundaries between current, retired and "retired" intelligence officers get blurry. Sort of like a cross between Wackenhut and Blackwater Security. An article in the Washington Post recently said what has been said elsewhere before, that the C.I.A. is privatizing a lot of its functions more and more in recent years, subcontracting out a lot of tasks to entities in the private sector who just so happen to be made up of "former" intel personnel. Much of it operates like a revolving door, with agents coming in, serving in the C.I.A. and then going to the private sector to found security etc. companies, which then market their services out to the C.I.A. And besides, everyone who knows anything knows that the C.I.A. has for many decades been operating front companies, so-called cut-outs to shroud their activities under the veil of economic activity. It should come as no surprise that the company most in charge of security at the WTC was a company that is like two peas in a pod with the C.I.A.

Lev

Please read the Rules for Commenting.

And here's an interesting bit of information brought to us by Newsday.com in an article from September 12th, 2001: "The World Trade Center was destroyed just days after a heightened security alert was lifted at the landmark 110-story towers, security personnel said yesterday. Daria Coard, 37, a guard at Tower One, said the security detail had been working 12-hour shifts for the past two weeks because of numerous phone threats. But on Thursday, bomb-sniffing dogs were abruptly removed." That's pretty convenient. I wonder why the bomb-sniffing dogs were abruptly removed five days before the Twin Towers were demolished in obvious controlled demolitions? http://www.newsday.com/n...178sep12,0,1255660.story
Yet the week preceding 9/11, the FBI was all over the World Trade Center complex: "Ms. Terry added this: "Last week the FBI was all over the Trade Center. They were parked in our spot. They knew something was up." http://www.timesreview.c...-13-01/stories/news3.htm Fiduciary Trust, on the 97th floor of the South Tower, http://observer.guardian.../story/0,,776403,00.html had an "emergency drill" scheduled for that morning, an article from the New York Times and reprinted here in a victims' tribute site, where it says: "He was on the 97th floor where, by chance, an emergency drill had been scheduled for that day." http://www.mishalov.com/...tc-calling-for-help.html People magazine in an article quoted Ben Fountain, a financial analyst from the South Tower, as saying: "How could they let this happen? They knew this building was a target. Over the past few weeks we'd been evacuated a number of times, which is unusual. I think they had an inkling something was going on." http://web.archive.org/w...0,11859,174592-5,00.html

Agent 99: I just read them, but I respectfully ask, what am I missing? And why is my post about the eyewitness accounts of firemen and EMS personnel removed? Who gives a damn if it's a long post that I wrote elsewhere? Am I really supposed to find where I wrote it elsewhere and provide a link to some other blog's comment page, making people go there, scroll down and hunt for my comment until they find it? When I could just post it here? That's asinine. There are over 200 comments on this page, and I don't think a long post thoroughly backed up by links to the relevant information does anyone a disservice, just the opposite: It's INFORMATION. If that's not what you were referring to when you said to read the rules for commenting, I apologize. Am I missing something?

Well, this spate of looooooong, cut and pasted comments, even if you wrote them, which I couldn't tell, is making this thread seriously unreadable. Some people don't mind, but it has been my experience that most do mind... and particularly when there aren't enough paragraph breaks. And, a lot of sites have permalinks to individual comments. And, it might be really cool if you opened a Blogger account and posted this stuff on it. Then you could link your post/s and keep track of all your hard work, and everybody would be happy.

Well thanks for clearing that up. Though I don't have the time to operate a blog of my own I get what you're saying. As for paragraph breaks, I put them in but for some reason, perhaps because of the length of it, it squeezes them all together when it posts them. Not sure why. I can try triple or quadruple spacing between paragraphs if that might fix it. As far as the length of posts, if most readers DO mind, I apologize though that in itself is not a good sign regarding the attention span of people in this country. Everyone seems to want everything in 30-second sound bites or else they lose interest and their eyes glaze over, and sound bites has never been my style. Some things can't be made into tiny fragments and still retain the basic point I'm making or include the necessary details.

Here's what I've found: If someone writes a short blurb about 9/11 evidence of complicity, then some people bitch about it being too short, saying "Oh, THAT'S all you're basing your opinion on? Sheesh." Then when people post a lot of information in a very short format, other people complain, saying "Whoa! That's a lot to take in all at once!". Then when someone posts like I do, a lot of information in a format lengthy enough to do it justice, still OTHER people whine because it's too LONG. So I can't please everybody; I try to do what I think gives people enough information that they can plainly see that 9/11 had to have been an inside job. If some people don't get anything out of what I've posted because of the WAY I've posted it, well I'm sorry but they didn't bring much to take the information home in. That said, I appreciate your constructive feedback.

The cool part about the free blogging sites is that you can make a page, post just what you want, and never have to maintain it. Especially for information like this, it stays a permanent resource for you and for others, if you choose to make it publicly available. I really think you should consider it. Maybe take a couple hours on a weekend and wail on it.

And, yes, I know what you mean about people picking at the presentation instead of the substance. Seriously frustrating when you're trying to communicate about stuff with literally life and death consequences. When I come up with the cure, I won't even have to be sure to let you know, because everybody around the globe will hear my jubilation....

I wasn't even aware that there ARE free blogging services, which shows you how un-computer savvy I am. I had always presumed that the person who owns the blog has to pay a monthly fee, like a rent if you will, to use that little area on the blogosphere. It is after all just a series of tubes right? Just kidding, I'm not that bad off, but I didn't know someone could get one for free. I just might check that out, however as a reader on blogs I must say I hate it when they can't keep them updated; when you look on there and the newest article is from last month. So if I did have a blog I would have to keep it updated frequently or few would read it I would imagine, and I don't have the requisite time to be able to devote to operating a blog. Still, you have a good idea there Agent 99 and I will look into it.

By the way, if Brad and company want something long enough to make into an article proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that 9/11 was a false flag operation, and backed up by plenty of sources, most of them mainstream media sources, I already have one written up and saved, a little of which I have already posted on here in this thread (but there's a LOT more of it I haven't posted). I wouldn't be averse to even breaking up an article into three or four segments and posting one segment per week or something, if that would be preferable. My main focus is getting the information out there into public discourse for the general good, and any I'm open to any ideas as to how to do that.

ot

Destruction of Evidence - Ohio's 2004 Presidential Ballots

Agent 99,

Ok. I agree to never again post on a blog with your name on it.

By the way, I am a professional engineer with two degrees and 35+ years of experience with a safety-testing agency. I know a little bit about your laws of physics.

In that case you are either delusional or a liar take your pick.

This will be my last post in this thread, because this crap will just go on and on.

Brad, not only did Nunyabiz post clear disinformation in post #199 ("there is evidence that Clinton was involved"), but Agent 99 posted clear disinformation, in support of Nunyabiz, in post #203 - "Nunya...JD has something of a history of pretending he's busting trolls. Pay it no mind."

You and I both know this is an outright lie.

IMO, something is really wrong here. The only other 9-11 disinfo thread I am aware of that ever took place at your site, was last year, when Winter Patriot and Agent 99 frontpaged 9-11 stuff while you were gone. Clearly, Agent 99 is extremely passionate about her postings about 9-11. That passion could be merely because she really believes that BushCo would do anything. Or, that passion could be because of a hidden agenda. I believe it is the latter, because all she keeps doing is parroting the same line over and over, and encouraging people to post about CD.

Extraordinary claims require at least some evidence. These people have no evidence - no surveillance video, no explanation of why their claim of CD happened when it did, instead of earlier or later, no evidence of anyone involved, no evidence of explosives. On top of their lack of evidence, they completely ignore evidence, such as WTC7 smoking like a chimney, and a piece of #7 falling off, before it started to collapse; such as the National Geographic closeup video of one of the main towers, clearly showing the steel decomposing, and then buckling. That decomposition did not happen because of a bomb - it happened because of the heat.

People are able to believe whatever they want...however, people should not be allowed to take over your site and blanket a thread with this crap, ignoring all the other things you are reporting about. So IMO, you have a problem, and IMO there is a secret agenda at work here.

However, it's your site, and your business to do whatever you want.

OK John Dean, I'm going to give you what I justifiably wanted you to give me: a proper rebuttal. You said:

"Extraordinary claims require at least some evidence."

"no surveillance video"

As has been repeatedly run down for you above, the mysterious shutdown of all video and data-based surveillance and security systems at the WTC on the weekend prior to 9/11 has been thoroughly documented. On the Pentagon side, all the government has to do to put our questions to rest is release their dozens and dozens of video angles of the incident, unedited, which is occasionally promised but never seems to happen. Now THAT'S some 'extraordinary evidence'. Even Michael Moore has now called for the release of these videos --- www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBSpzMixMlI

"no explanation of why their claim of CD happened when it did, instead of earlier or later"

Hey, who knows? Maybe the administration is completely incompetent, just as many 9/11 Truth skeptics claim as proof this is all impossible. And their plan went totally haywire with Towers 1, 2 and Bldg. 7 all coming down at the wrong time. DOESN'T MATTER --- proving it was CD has absolutely no dependence on when it happened. This is the kind of faulty logic on your part which makes me wonder about *your* agenda.

"no evidence of anyone involved, no evidence of explosives"

Watch the Richard Gage presentation I linked in Comment #150.

"they completely ignore evidence, such as WTC7 smoking like a chimney, and a piece of #7 falling off, before it started to collapse"

But why did it fall symmetrically when its supports were asymmetrically positioned? If it had a huge chunk taken out of its side, why didn't it keel over? What about the hulking husks of the other WTC buildings, none of them superior in design to Bldg. 7, with gouges and half-collapsed sections all over 'em, which still had to be carefully demolitioned in the following weeks? Why are you ignoring that evidence, sir?

"video of one of the main towers, clearly showing the steel decomposing, and then buckling. That decomposition did not happen because of a bomb - it happened because of the heat."

Either way, it doesn't explain how all of the other floors, the lobby, and the basement, managed to sustain the damage they did both before and during the collapse. I'm not going to go into it. It's all detailed above for anyone paying attention.

The buckling means nothing, because if the steel buckled, the non-buckled steel extending for hundreds of feet in a tight latticework in all directions would not have followed suit in a domino effect, and even if it did, that wouldn't result in disintegration, rather more massive-scale warping and buckling, bringing the building down on the surrounding area. That's common sense, not science.

Now THAT's a rebuttal.

*J*

P.S. Can't you at least whine and tattle to Daddy Blogmaster in private? Dude, that's obnoxious.

JD just ignores everything said here so it is no point whatsoever to address his alleged questions.

We have listed tons of proof some of it literally irrefutable to anyone not suffering from severe cognitive dissonance or more than room temp IQ.

Just simply watching building 7 collapse, seeing the "squibs" blow windows out, watching the building "kink" in the middle, watching the penthouse on top collapse first then the entire building collapsing into its own footprint in 6.5 seconds should be enough for anyone that is "reachable" to at least have doubts. If not then they are clearly a 9/11 Creationist and no amount of evidence no matter what it is or where its from will ever make any difference to these delusional cretins.

Buildings like this just do NOT collapse at or even remotely close to free fall speed unless explosives are used PERIOD.
How anyone in their right mind cant see this is beyond belief.

In reality IF any of these 3 buildings would have actually collapsed because of fire it would NOT have been within an hour, it would NOT have been a 100% simultaneous global collapse, the lower 80+ floors that were completely undamaged by the plane and fire of the 2-3 floors that were damaged WOULD have offered MASSIVE resistance to any type of collapse.
In order to get it to collapse would have required literally days of intense top to bottom out of control fire from basement to roof to the point to where when you looked at it about all you would see from the ground up is white hot FIRE with the entire building engulfed.
and THEN what you would see would be a very slow gradual bending, groaning, partial collapse pieces falling here and there, another partial collapse hours later and so on, very slow.
Instant catastrophic collapse at within 1 second of free fall speed (the amount of time it would take for a bowling ball to drop from the top of the roof IN A VACUUM!) is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE.

Not so sure why these 9/11 Creationist cant seem to grasp that, it is really quite simple.

There is no doubt that many serious and professional scientists do not agree with the official conspiracy theory, but instead have their own rebuttal conspiracy theories:

August 27, 2007 – World renowned scientist, Lynn Margulis, Ph.D., today severely criticized the official account of 9/11 and called for a new investigation, “I suggest that those of us aware and concerned demand that the glaringly erroneous official account of 9/11 be dismissed as a fraud and a new, thorough, and impartial investigation be undertaken.”

(Full Article). And since such scientists regularly deal with hypothesis, theory, and scientific law, the disparaging comments on this thread about the 9/11 truth movement do not equate to valid criticism.

You people have no respect for the dead. Or our country if you don't trust our country I suggest you get the F--k out. I think Cuba or Iran are good places for terrorist traitors like you.

That goes double for a Reich wing fool like you that clearly does not care at all that we have a Moron in the White house that was never elected, that lied this country into an illegal and unjust occupation of aggression, that without any question planned an executed the false flag attack of 9/11 in exactly the same way and for the same reason as Hitler did the Reichstag.
Has murdered so far over 1.2 MILLLION Iraqi citizens and over 3000 American soldiers all for their greed for OIL & Power.

We HONOR the dead by doing everything we can to bring their murderers to trial and hopefully justice.

Nut bags like you should just crawl back under your rock and STFU.

I'm sorry, Nunya, I missed Kevin's comment earlier, or I would have saved you the irk....

We have always tried, and continue to try, to keep the name-calling and ad hominems to a minium around here. It's not very easy when emotions run so high, but, well, we have to try.

It makes me crazy that people consider those who will fight for the truth despite the odds as nutcases or traitors. How could upholding truth ever be considered nutty or traitorous? Ever. EVER. There is NO way that could be good for any country, for anyone but criminals, and yet they squawk and squawk.

these 9/11 truthie people really are so stupid and naive to think that a something like this is possible - washington and world politics in general is full of people that would eat their own mothers just to get ahead if there were any Truth to these claims it would have come out a long long time ago by the political backstabbers that make you Truthies look like Barney Fife and Andy... but guess what it's not the truth ... grow up all ready

LOL all you can do is laugh at these morons that swallow the Offical Lie.

and we wonder why this country is so screwed up, but with so many people dumb as a stick how could we not be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDKa1Q1GwTQ

Just doesn't get any plainer than that does it 99?

Yet there are still a few poor deluded souls here that flatly refuse to accept what their lying eyes are telling them.
Not to mention 100s of Firemen, Police and EMTS all of which corroborate each other.
1 maybe 2 witnesses can be mistaken, 3-4 all saying the same thing is pretty solid evidence, 100+ all saying the same thing is called FACT.
Add in the 100% impossibility that the Laws of Physics were suspended that day and what more proof could any sane individual need?

Evidently, a video of the perps planning and/or carrying it out....

Andy and Barney , yeah i watched that - omg you people are seriouly delusional - that was - the biggest pile of crap - it's laughable if you weren't so pathetic and gullible

" and we wonder why this country is so screwed up, but with so many people dumb as a stick how could we not be. "

Wyle E Coyote called and he wants you back in his super genius class pronto.....

Sorry everyone, looks like the Virginia shill mill has this thread on daily rotation now. Bye-bye.