READER COMMENTS ON
"UK Sunday Times Scoops US Media Again, Confirms FBI Cover-Up of Documents in Sibel Edmonds Nuke Secrets Case"
(33 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
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Linda
said on 1/19/2008 @ 10:11 pm PT...
You know, it's only a matter of time before the corporate interests that control American MSM wrap their tentacles around foreign media sources. When that happens, where will we go to find out what's going in in America?
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
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Floridiot
said on 1/19/2008 @ 10:12 pm PT...
This is treason, and the media is just as guilty as the executive branch and congress is of it for not reporting this
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
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Carl M
said on 1/19/2008 @ 10:19 pm PT...
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
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Floridiot
said on 1/19/2008 @ 11:21 pm PT...
I think anyone involved in this, including the Fat Bastert, should get a one-way ticket to Waziristan for some swift justice
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
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Ancient
said on 1/19/2008 @ 11:30 pm PT...
I'll second that motion Floridiot!
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
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kenoma
said on 1/19/2008 @ 11:40 pm PT...
Regarding the suspicions about Murdoch publishing this story and the earlier one, don't forget that if he had some nefarious interest in having this story widely publicized, he has one of the greatest cross-promotional machines at his disposal. He could make sure that it was picked up by the WSJ, The Australian, Sky News, ... maybe even FoxNews! But this story hasn't to my knowledge been picked up by one other Murdoch outlet anywhere in the world.
Also, it's worth remembering that the Sunday Times, though it's not usually the greatest of newspapers, or especially reliable, does have a history of publishing whistleblower's testimony. It published Mordechai Vanunu's disclosure of Israel's nukes back in 1986, when it was Murdoch-owned.
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
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oldEurope
said on 1/20/2008 @ 12:16 am PT...
Really looking forward to read the Ellsberg comment!
"But in the United States, incredibly enough, absolutely nothing. Not a single major American media outlet covered the explosive and disturbing allegations."
Surprised? The US media has been complicit in covering up each and every scandal since the 70's (at least) and to dig deep into something like Sibel's story would reveal this to their readers.
To quote myself over at We Can Change the World:
"I think the most important stuff posted on the net re the article in Sunday Times is Chris Floyd’s “The Bomb in the Shadows: Proliferation, Corruption and the Way of the World” since he paints the Big Picture (available since early 90’s. Or 60’s, 70’s, if you prefer)
http://tinyurl.com/2xtdsr
I think Chris Floyd is one of the most important voices of America today. (And been so since his time as a columnist at Moscow Times.)"
To keep on hammering out the old and forgotten scandals of Iran-Contras, BCCI, and BNL across the blogosphere could be one way to sort of open the mind of people about the fact that Sibel's revelations really seem right to the point.
In general it's not really US journalists to be blamed for the state of US media. To read more on my take on journalists writing books, see the comments on We Can Change the World here and here.
Another required reading if one wants to get a grasp on how totally penetrated US politics are by a criminal mindset is "The Mafia, CIA & George Bush" by Pete Brewton. A journalistic tour de force, if anyhing. It's like getting into a different universe to think that Brewton could have a lot of this stuff published in Houston, Texas in the late 80's and early 90's!
Today I can't really think of any other really viable channel for the Sibel story than perhaps Seymour Hersh and the New Yorker. Then it will at least be heard in some parts of the US.
Greeting from Old Europe
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
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PS
said on 1/20/2008 @ 1:49 am PT...
The cover up has begun-- when searching this entry on google, a blank space appears and "flagged for removal" comes up. Internet Haganah is a troll group that removes "anti-Israel hate speech" entries from the web. Dont let this happen to Sibel.
boston craigslist > boston/camb/brook > politics
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This posting has been flagged for removal
(The title on the listings page will be removed in just a few minutes.)
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COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
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Dredd
said on 1/20/2008 @ 4:28 am PT...
Further support for her whistleblowing revelations of high up US Government officials:
WASHINGTON (AP) - A former congressman and delegate to the United Nations was indicted Wednesday as part of a terrorist fundraising ring that allegedly sent more than $130,000 to an al-Qaida and Taliban supporter who has threatened U.S. and international troops in Afghanistan.
The former Republican congressman from Michigan, Mark Deli Siljander, was charged with money laundering, conspiracy and obstructing justice for allegedly lying about lobbying senators on behalf of an Islamic charity that authorities said was secretly sending funds to terrorists.
(Brietbart, emphasis added).
Sibel ran across this type of behavior which seems to be everywhere in the preznit blush regime too.
"Doin' a heckuva job fightin' turrists" Katrina style.
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
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TomR
said on 1/20/2008 @ 5:58 am PT...
Screw the American media. I say we need to inform and apply relentless pressure to our Senators and Congress people to push for hearings, just as Wexler is doing regarding impeachment. We have voices and need to use them through and with our government.
Let the corporate media live in their bubble. Citizens can take the air out of their bubble by ignoring and bypassing them, and rendering them obsolete. Let the consequences of their inaction take hold.
- Tom
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
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Dredd
said on 1/20/2008 @ 6:14 am PT...
OT ...
Another female activist, Cindy Sheehan, got her conviction reversed:
We reverse and remand for a new trial, however, because appellant was convicted of a crime that does not exist and prevented from offering a viable defense.
(Federal Appeals Court, DC Circuit, emphasis added). Who says you can't be convicted of a crime that does not exist? (At least until a successful appeal anyway.)
Maybe there is still hope that the gummit will do something about spies stealing nuclear secrets and giving them to al Qaida.
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
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Reader
said on 1/20/2008 @ 6:31 am PT...
I'm basically new to this story. I mean I've read bits and pieces about it for some time but it was just too confusing, and the things I read went in so many directions, that I couldn't follow it. So now I've read the two articles published in the Times- the recent one and the previous one. And it all pretty much makes sense. My question is this- has Sibel named the senior State Department official? Who is it? Also, what was the nature of the Israeli involvement? I find it hard to believe the Israeli government would steal nuclear secrets and sell them to a Islamic nation like Pakistan. Or were the Israelis stealing this info for themselves? Also, I remember reading Hastert might be involved with the Turks- any good evidence for that? Anyway, this story is a bombshell- and yet I'm not hearing a peep out of our media about it. Somebody has got to pick up the ball. Somebody has got to want to be the next Woodward or Bernstein- don't they?
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
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WeCanChangeTheWorld
said on 1/20/2008 @ 6:52 am PT...
Thanks for all your work on this and other news, Brad! I'm still hoping that one of these days I'll get to see a YouTube video about Sibel Edmonds go viral.
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
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cbears34
said on 1/20/2008 @ 7:09 am PT...
Sunday morning, 9am CT. Still not a peep from US MSM. Google News returns the Sunday Times story, BradBlog, and nothing else.
Looking forward to the Ellsberg material, Brad, and thanks for your coverage.
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
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Reader
said on 1/20/2008 @ 7:37 am PT...
So I found the name of the high ranking State Department official that the Times won't mention. Sounds like he's a neocon.
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
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Get Grandpas FBI file
said on 1/20/2008 @ 7:54 am PT...
You can use the following form letter to review a copy of the FBI file 203A-WF-210023 you mentioned. 203A means that it is a foreign counterintelligence investigation, WF means that it is an investigation based in the Washington Metropolitan Field Office. Here's the letter (send to all three offices):
TO:
Carmen L. Mallon
Chief of Staff
Office of Information and Privacy
Department of Justice
Suite 11050
1425 New York Avenue, N.W.
Washington, DC 20530-0001
David M. Hardy,
Chief
Record/Information Dissemination Section
Records Management Division
Federal Bureau of Investigation
Department of Justice
935 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
Washington, DC 20535-0001
Federal Bureau of Investigation
FBI Washington Metropolitan Field Office
601 4th Street, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20535-0002
MANDATORY DECLASSIFICATION REVIEW REQUEST
Dear Ms. Mallon and Mr. Hardy:
Pursuant to the provisions of President Bush’s Executive Order 13292, I hereby request Mandatory Declassification Review of the following FBI record:
FBI File 203A-WF-210023
Should you determine that this record must remain classified, please advise me of my administrative appellate remedies under E.O. 13292.
Sincerely,
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
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CLUE? Exhibit 203a
said on 1/20/2008 @ 10:29 am PT...
At Syriacomment.com- a M.E. blog has been having a hot discussion since Jan 17, two days before the latest Sibel revelations came out addressing Israeli treason. "T"'s thread addresses the issue indepth. The entire thread must be viewed to get full impact. Then "T" refers to "Exhibit 203a" as being evidence used in a court case to convict Israeli dual nationals of treason/spying. The Item was posted BEFORE the information was ever made public on the London Times news site. (The post is stamped 7:07pm but on this site- 5hrs is always added from the actual time of the blogger hitting the "submit" key. Which makes the post at 2:07pm EST. Calls to London TimesOnline said no version of the Sibel Edmonds article went public BEFORE 2:43pm EST (7:43 London GMT). See "Saudi Money Cant buy you love- or success" in the comments section of Syriacomment.com. Odd.
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
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Who scooped London Times then?
said on 1/20/2008 @ 11:22 am PT...
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
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Agent 99
said on 1/20/2008 @ 11:37 am PT...
Who scooped London Times then? [from #18]
CLUE? Exhibit 203a [from #17]
NoOneYouKnow [from two weeks ago]
Please read the commenting rules.
Please pick a screen name and stick with it.
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
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Rush to War
said on 1/20/2008 @ 11:55 am PT...
Money has corrupted These peopole in FBI and CIA, but if we sink into a depression, these people will have no reason to keep anything secret because thier money in overseas accounts will become worthless.
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
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oldEurope
said on 1/20/2008 @ 12:31 pm PT...
I saw a suggestion in the comments of Luke's post on DailyKos to add encouraging comments on the Sunday Times article. I second that idea. Very much. I obviously got too encouraging when I suggested that Times' readers should also consult blogs like this, We Can Change the World, and Let Sibel Edmonds speak since it was filtered away
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
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MarkH
said on 1/20/2008 @ 12:31 pm PT...
America selling nukes abroad? Why?
Step back, look at the bigger picture and wonder what this could be part of? What's the plan? What's the purpose? Who benefits?
One purported reason for this secret plan was to suss out who might wish to do us harm, so we could focus on them and stop them. The recent story about Hal Turner being an FBI agent who stirred up the rabble, just so the FBI could focus in on the dangerous ones is a similar idea.
But, strangely, my suspicions go in another direction. I remember we became obsessed with the Middle East and our "enemies" there during the 1980s and then moreso when Bush I took office, the first Republican president after the fall of the Soviet Union. Somehow I think the military industrial complex needed a new enemy, a new Darth Vader type to fight.
But, I keep hearing we're entirely vulnerable to nuclear attacks and I don't understand how that could be after we've discovered conclusively that Saddam Hussein didn't have them and now we know Iran doesn't either. So, who has them and why should we worry?
The Soviet Union had them and now there are only a handful of states which still do.
Is there any surprise we're hearing rumbling from Putin about keeping all the options on the table, including a preemptive nuclear strike? What's that about?
Consider this pure speculation (which occurred to me back in the mid-'90s): what if the stupid Republicans signed a pact with the Soviet Union (Russians really) to destroy Communism and to destroy our free-market-imperialism in a double-suicide?
The Soviet Union collapsed and caused massive disruption of human life. Now we have decimated our military, driven ourselves $9 trillion in debt and are facing a self-made economic depression. Are we really so stupid as to have done these things accidentally, on such a massive scale?
Who is at fault if all this is even a little bit true?
It certainly isn't you and me. It isn't the common man. They can't lay the blame on accidents and stupidity. Alan Greenspan knew the housing market was a problem and now claims ignorance. I don't believe it. I don't believe the media is "fair and balanced" when they refuse to even speak John Edwards name. He alone offers sound advice for fixing our woes and he alone (of the most popular candidates) is shut out, blacklisted, censored. On the Republican side Ron Paul faces somewhat the same fate, but he isn't nearly as popular or as sensible.
Who is to blame?
Remember that question and remember who controls all the power levers and uses them to stifle discourse and any sensible solution to our obvious problems.
"We are not disposable."
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
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Mr. Martinez
said on 1/20/2008 @ 12:37 pm PT...
{Ed Note: Sorry, your email looks too much like a spam thing. --99}
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
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bruce
said on 1/20/2008 @ 12:57 pm PT...
Here's a question for others; this past week the media reported on Israel testing new missiles, one of which supposedly had a range of 2700 miles and was capable of carrying nuclear warheads.
Such a missile could reach Moscow and Delhi.
Such a missile has no defense purpose related to the Middle East where Israel indicates it's existence is threatened.
So why would they be developing such a missile?
Are the citizen's of the world doomed to 'not a flood but a fire next time' because of the delusional,paranoid leaders of the U.S. and Israel?
Is it any wonder the Russian's are talking about 'pre-emption'?
COMMENT #25 [Permalink]
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Agent 99
said on 1/20/2008 @ 1:41 pm PT...
America selling nukes abroad?
It isn't "America", but criminals working for personal profit under the aegis of America. I think that's a crucial distinction, and that distinction should be made for the other implicated countries as well. It will help us think more clearly.
COMMENT #26 [Permalink]
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pat driscoll
said on 1/20/2008 @ 2:47 pm PT...
anonymous poster says: "I find it hard to believe the Israeli government would steal nuclear secrets and sell them to a Islamic nation like Pakistan. "
grow up. who supplied apartheid south africa with nuclear expertise and technology? israel.
who was mixed up in iran/contra providing cocaine primarily for US inner city blacks and using the proceeds to buy weapons for iran?
2005: PBS Frontline: The Double Life of Asher Karni
Continuing our investigation of nuclear proliferation, FRONTLINE/World reporter Mark Schapiro and producer Cassandra Herrman travel to South Africa to find out how Asher Karni, an Israeli businessman respected in his Orthodox community in Cape Town, became the middleman in a black market operation to supply nuclear technology to Pakistan.
http://www.pbs.org/front...ories/nuclear/part2.html
google asher karni and ryan g. anderson for that matter.
israel is now the fourth largest arms exporter in the world, overtaking britain.
never mind. republicans and dems are perfectly happy to keep sending US taxpayer $$$ to israel - as if they need it!
and having accepted the media selections for dem candidates - two minority individuals guaranteed to polarise voters - we may just see a mccain/lieberman ticket winning the presidency.
how amusing it is to read kos/du etc and see no concern for the complete shutdown of gaza, the daily killings of palestinians, etc.
and who can remember the 70 UN resolutions against israel that the corporate media has not mentioned in years.
COMMENT #27 [Permalink]
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pat driscoll
said on 1/20/2008 @ 2:53 pm PT...
one more thing:
murdoch's UK Times also published the 'downing street memo' which the corporate media failed to cover until pressured by the bloggers. even then, they treated it as an argument between bloggers who thought it was a 'smoking gun' and the corpmedia who thought it wasn't.
similarly the UK Times is given credit for publishing mordechai vanunu's expose of the israeli nuclear program, but the Times did not publish first. the mossad-connected robert maxwell's UK Daily Mirror published a hit piece on vanunu first while the Times held back publication until vanunu had already been kidnapped and was on his way to israel. of course the australian media was the first to refuse to publish vanunu's allegations backed up with photographs etc.
the corporate media is the enemy.
COMMENT #28 [Permalink]
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radii
said on 1/20/2008 @ 3:12 pm PT...
Brad, great work! You are a true American patriot out to protect our freedoms and our nation. This story will see the light of day and our frienemy Israel will be exposed for once and for all in the mainstream press (Carl Cameron tried).
COMMENT #29 [Permalink]
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Grizzly Bear Dancer
said on 1/20/2008 @ 4:23 pm PT...
i have really appreciated your non-partisan (no ties to a particular political party) coverage and active involvement about how the corrupt treasonous 1%er corporate office holders in the Republican-Democrap machine have succeeded in keeping their bogus system of elections as the status quo. Modern U.S. elections are characterized by votes are counted in secrecy by voting machine companies using electronic voting machines that can steal an election 50 different ways without transparency and without verifiable paper trails. It also seems there in no national accepted "safe place" to store election evidence (votes) in the event a recount is required.
Your efforts to report the Sibel Edmonds story is priceless. This story reflect how their are defective parasitic careless treasoners at the highest levels of our government and Justice Departments.
The overwhelming evidence about the corrupted FBI, CIA, Secret Service, and the Justice departments all have become a cancer on the American people and the world. These organizations need an entire change of personel and new protocol needs to be implemented to avoid this experience from being repeated.
The people Ms. Edmonds named need to frigin burn. These people need to be prosecuted and stand court marshall for their damage and treason.
The US government corporate mass media conglomerant must be broken up and destroyed. Their silence is just another nail in the coffin as to WHY we must end this monopoly!!!
As usual, I command the immediate Impeachment and remove of the President George W Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney from all Executive branch powers pending prosecution for treason, war crimes, multiple high crimes and misdemeanors, as well as directing the sale and destruction of US wild lands and national treasures mainly in Western states as the Federal Bureau of Land Management.
COMMENT #30 [Permalink]
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chabuka
said on 1/20/2008 @ 5:08 pm PT...
Pelosi re-affirms there will be no impeachment hearings....I wonder did she know about this too...along with the "torture briefing" she recieved in, was it, 2004?
I always kind of figured it was not so much about Joe Wilson's article refuting "the yellow cake, Nigeria" information...I alway felt that was just a smoke screen....it was Valarie Plame and Brewster-Jennings "they" were really after..
COMMENT #31 [Permalink]
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chabuka
said on 1/20/2008 @ 5:14 pm PT...
Humm..another quick thought..is this why Bush/Cheney keep insisting that Iran does have nukes....(screw the NIE)...they know because they were in on the illegal sale...?
COMMENT #32 [Permalink]
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Mr. Martinez
said on 1/21/2008 @ 7:13 am PT...
The following document, dated May 1979, was found on July 7, 1986, in an IBM
copier that had been purchased at a surplus sale.
Operations Research Technical Manual TM-SW7905.1
Welcome Aboard
This publication marks the 25th anniversary of the Third World War, called the
"Quiet War", being conducted using subjective biological warfare, fought with
"silent weapons."
This book contains an introductory description of this war, its strategies, and
its weaponry.
May 1979 #74-1120
Security
"It is patently impossible to discuss social engineering or the automation of a
society, i.e., the engineering of social automation systems (silent weapons) on
a national or worldwide scale without implying extensive objectives of social
control and destruction of human life, i.e., slavery and genocide.
This manual is in itself an analog declaration of intent. Such a writing must be
secured from public scrutiny. Otherwise, it might be recognized as a technically
formal declaration of domestic war. Furthermore, whenever any person or group of
persons in a position of great power and without full knowledge and consent of
the public, uses such knowledge and methodologies for economic conquest - it
must be understood that a state of domestic warfare exists between said person
or group of persons and the public.
The solution of today's problems requires an approach which is ruthlessly
candid, with no agonizing over religious, moral or cultural values.
You have qualified for this project because of your ability to look at human
society with cold objectivity, and yet analyze and discuss your observations and
conclusions with others of similar intellectual capacity without the loss of
discretion or humility. Such virtues are exercised in your own best interest. Do
not deviate from them.
Historical Introduction
Silent weapon technology has evolved from Operations Research (O.R.), a
strategic and tactical methodology developed under the Military Management in
England during World War II. The original purpose of Operations Research was to
study the strategic and tactical problems of air and land defense with the
objective of effective use of limited military resources against foreign enemies
(i.e., logistics).
It was soon recognized by those in positions of power that the same methods
might be useful for totally controlling a society. But better tools were
necessary.
Social engineering (the analysis and automation of a society) requires the
correlation of great amounts of constantly changing economic information (data),
so a high-speed computerized data-processing system was necessary which could
race ahead of the society and predict when society would arrive for
capitulation...."
Think Think....this was copied from else where.
Martinez
COMMENT #33 [Permalink]
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Mr. Martinez
said on 1/21/2008 @ 8:54 am PT...
guess what i found... the real people behind it all.. the real war mongers. after all war is a product. those who control the war profit the most...
CBS. 60 Minutes. Broadcast Oct. 5, 2003
There are secrets that George W. Bush guards at least as carefully as any
entrusted to a president.
He's forbidden to share these secrets even with the vice president ---
secrets he has held ever since his days as an undergraduate at Yale.
SOURCE FILE
In his senior year, Mr. Bush - like his father and his grandfather -
belonged to Skull and Bones, an elite secret society that includes some of
the most powerful men of the 20th century.
All Bonesmen, as they're called, are forbidden to reveal what goes on in
their inner sanctum, the windowless building on the Yale campus that is
called "The Tomb."
There are conspiracy theorists who see Skull and Bones behind everything
that goes wrong, and occasionally even right in the world.
Apart from presidents, Bones has included cabinet officers, spies, Supreme
Court justices, statesmen and captains of industry - and often their sons,
and lately their daughters, too.
It’s a social and political network like no other. And they've responded
to outsiders with utter silence – until an enterprising Yale graduate,
Alexandra Robbins, managed to penetrate the wall of silence in her book,
“Secrets of the Tomb.” Correspondent Morley Safer reports.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
”I spoke with about 100 members of Skull and Bones and they were members
who were tired of the secrecy, and that's why they were willing to talk to
me,” says Robbins. “But probably twice that number hung up on me, harassed
me, or threatened me.”
freespeech92@bellsouth.net